Trump could shut down Russia critics in an instant if he did this
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
WASHINGTON -- If President Trump wants to shut down the critics of his performance this week in Helsinki and strengthen U.S. national security, he can do so with one bold move: Announce he is moving out most U.S. forces currently stationed in Germany and sending them to Poland.
The Polish government recently presented Trump with a formal proposal to move U.S. troops from Stuttgart, Germany, to a new permanent U.S. military base in Poland. Trump should take up Warsaw on this offer.
Moving U.S. troops to Poland would be a bold, historic decision on par with Trump's decision to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. Not only would it better position American forces, it also would completely flummox Trump's critics in the U.S. foreign policy establishment. After spending the past week accusing him of being Putin's puppet, they would look foolish if they turned around and criticized him for antagonizing Russia. And after attacking him for undermining NATO, they could hardly complain that he is taking unprecedented action to shore up the alliance's Eastern flank.
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The move would also address a major U.S. strategic concern about its ability to deter Russia. The Post recently reported that U.S. military commanders are worried that if they had to quickly move U.S. troops east to head off a military conflict with Moscow, "the most powerful military in the world could get stuck in a traffic jam" as "Humvees ... snarl behind plodding semis on narrow roads" and "U.S. tanks ... crush rusting bridges too weak to hold their weight." Stationing American forces in Poland would alleviate that problem. As the Polish government points out in its proposal, "a U.S. permanent presence in Poland [offers] a more forward operating location than Stuttgart provides, would greatly alleviate well founded fears that fellow Eastern European and Baltic governments have that Moscow would be able to overtake defending forces prior to the support of U.S. and NATO forces in Stuttgart could provide."
The move would also benefit U.S. taxpayers. The Polish government has offered up to $2 billion to cover most of the costs of building such a base and supporting U.S. troops in Poland, declaring it is committed "to share the burden of defense spending [and] make the decision more cost-effective for the U.S. government." This should be attractive to Trump, who has criticized other allies for not paying enough for the cost of stationing U.S. forces on their territory.
And there is one last good reason to do it: Poland loves Trump. When Trump spoke in Warsaw last year, his speech was repeatedly interrupted by chants of "Donald Trump! Donald Trump!" Such response would be unimaginable in Berlin.
The U.S. military presence in Germany is a legacy of the Cold War, when we positioned our forces to deter a Soviet invasion from East Germany. Today the need for deterrence is undiminished, but the potential line of contact has moved east. So should the U.S. military.
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Wouldn't that be a Hoot ?
I am on board with it !
Vlad would never go for it so the article is pointless.
Vlad hasn't gone along with Trump sanctions, diplomat expulsions or Syrian attacks either, but.....he's got 'em.
The sanctions Trump refuses to enforce?
Trump just blocked his own administration’s Russia sanctions
The expulsions where Trump allowed their 60 replacement within a week?
After surprise expulsion of Russian diplomats, State Dept. tells Putin he can send in replacements
The Syrian attacks that seem to miss all vital targets?
‘Not the heart’: Syria’s bold move after Donald Trump’s strike failed to crush its power
One see's what they are told to see.
Where is ALL this bad happenings going on, that has personally effected "Legal" citizens of this country again ?
I haven't "Hurt".....have YOU ?
Yes, I have been badly "HURT" seeing the direction this country is going under Trump.
Taking on other persons issues and lumping it onto your own shoulders....isn't a good trait to have.
Not a happy person ?
The US Army could not move all its troops out of Germany tomorrow, even if ordered to do so. There isn't enough living space in Stateside bases.
Oh, and... Germany pays a large portion of US Armed Forces expenses in that country, so if they are brought home, there will have to be an increase in the military budget to make up for the shortfall.
Other than that... great idea!
Nothing in the article said anything about a 1 day move. Common Sense tells one, it could be a couple years, but the Polish invite and cost sharing is a great idea, and a move I think we should make. The "Wall" is and has been down for a long time in Germany. Poland is now the Border (wall).
"so if they are brought home"
Are you thinking Germany would kick our troops out of their country if this was agreed to ?
If the Poles are willing to put up the money, then it's a good idea.
Bloomberg had an article about moving East several months ago, including these numbers:
Of course, Poland would have to ensure that the financing of the move is not taken out of the € 10-11 billion in subsidies received from the EU....
There is no "IF" according to the article. They WANT IT TO HAPPEN !
"Of course, Poland would have to ensure that the financing of the move is not taken out of the € 10-11 billion in subsidies received from the EU...."
I would think Poland would do nothing more than what Germany is Doing. Wouldn't you think that...or do you doubt an Allie ?
Who is Allie?
Poland is accustomed to doing things with EU money. They're already in trouble because they're stomping on due process, so I'd be wary of budgetary questions.
Freds wife. Duh !
"They're already in trouble because they're stomping on due process,"
"Brexit" is doing the same.
This has degenerated into nonsense. I'm gone.
Okay....I get it.....Things can be hard for some !
So Brexit ISN'T going against the status quo of the EU like YOU say Poland is doing ?
You should go look at a map...
'Up to 2 billion' is a drop in the bucket. Army bases cost a hell of a lot more than that. The area they are 'offering' doesn't have the existing infrastructure, the Airport is WWII era and right next to the city so that's no good for the military and they are talking about moving 40,000 troops there.
BTW, if Poland is so fucking worried about the SECOND Gas pipeline, why not build storage facilities and a pipeline to Germany?
What's really going on here is that Poland is pissed about loosing it's economic 'leverage' for Gas and want to retaliate against Germany for making a better deal. I thought Trump respected deal makers...
The Move would be a good thing. Like the Article notes, the border has moved East of East Germany !
This goes for comment 2.1.7 too.
The article doesn't 'note' ANYTHING about 'the border', that's all on you...
Actually Read something for a change.
I did.
Tell you what, copy and paste the part of the article that states that 'the border has moved East of East Germany'. I'll wait but I won't be holding my breath.
" The move would also address a major U.S. strategic concern about its ability to deter Russia. The Post recently reported that U.S. military commanders are worried that if they had to quickly move U.S. troops east to head off a military conflict with Moscow, "the most powerful military in the world could get stuck in a traffic jam" as "Humvees ... snarl behind plodding semis on narrow roads" and "U.S. tanks ... crush rusting bridges too weak to hold their weight." Stationing American forces in Poland would alleviate that problem."
"As the Polish government points out in its proposal, " a U.S. permanent presence in Poland [offers] a more forward operating location than Stuttgart provides,"
Did that help, or is it STILL better to ignore.
It helps PROVE that the article doesn't state that 'the border has moved East of East Germany' so your comment has it's feet planted firmly in bullshit.
Oh and FYI, there is no such place as 'East Germany' and hasn't been for quite a fucking while now. Again, check a map.
"The U.S. military presence in Germany is a legacy of the Cold War, when we positioned our forces to deter a Soviet invasion from East Germany. Today the need for deterrence is undiminished, but the potential line of contact has moved east. So should the U.S. military."
Comprehension can sometimes be difficult.
I comprehend that you made an inaccurate statement and instead of admitting it you obfuscate.
If you want to continue to double down on utter inaccuracy, so be it, but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining...
I don’t think we should move all our troops out of Germany but I do think that we should move some of them to a permanent base in Poland. Not only that but there should be an independent battalion in each of the Baltic states backed by a group of AH 64 as a trip wire/ deterrence to Russia.
No inaccurate statement was made.
Except of course your comments that falsely claim:
Comprehension still eludes ?
Yes, it does seem that you are having issues comprehending.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. "
Benjamin Franklin
As illustrated by your comments, for some it just comes naturally.
"The U.S. military presence in Germany is a legacy of the Cold War, when we positioned our forces to deter a Soviet invasion from East Germany. Today the need for deterrence is undiminished, but the potential line of contact has moved east . So should the U.S. military."
Typical !
I see that you're one of those that has to have the last word, no matter how irrelevant.
Please proceed.
We could make up the shortfall easily (and then some) by getting the bums to finally honor their NATO responsibilities.
Ummm... Do you really hope to get our allies to pay for American troops in America?
Kinda like Mexico paying for The Wall... except even more unlikely...
I thought it was already mentioned that Germany is restricted by treaty in how large their military can be, in terms of manpower, and reserves.
So the Bums have to honor those binding treaties first, the end of the war and the Two plus Four treaties in the 1990's(?).
They are only allowed to have a "defensive" posture and they have virtually no Air Force although the Army has quite a number of helicopters.
Perhaps it's time to drop the WWII restrictions and let them spend themselves silly.
The modern German military is restricted to 370,000 persons in a country of 83 million.
In 1940 there were 13 million in the Wehrmacht. Through the course of WWII 15 million served.
( yes, as mentioned before and elsewhere, the Germans get around some of the treaty restrictions by having one of the largest Police forces in the world complete with tanks, but those $ and Marks aren't allowed to be counted towards NATO spending )
Why not ?
They expect U.S. Troops to be there at their "beck-n-call" when they NEED them....right ?
No. I very plainly stated I hope to get the bums to pay what they agreed to pay into NATO. If they did, and we put in only what we agreed to, we would have a hell of a lot more money than what you are complaining about. But hey, that would be like admitting that Trump is actually right about something and I know you aren't going to do that.
Nice feeble attempt once again at twisting peoples words BTW.
I don't think you understand what an "ally" is. America did not join the World Wars to be nice.
It is to America's advantage that wars be fought elsewhere.
It would be helpful if you would keep in mind more than just the last post.
"the most powerful military in the world could get stuck in a traffic jam" as "Humvees ... snarl behind plodding semis on narrow roads" and "U.S. tanks ... crush rusting bridges too weak to hold their weight." Stationing American forces in Poland would alleviate that problem."
In reviewing the NATO countries and their proximity to Russia one would have to concede that if we moved our German bases to Poland due to being closer to Russia, we should move our bases in Italy, Spain and the UK to Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria or Romania.
There are any number of questions that can be addressed/asked if anyone is serious about moving our German bases to Poland.
Also not a terrible idea. The fundamental reason our bases aren't there now is because the USSR controlled those places for so long.
That is correct, but IMO moving of those bases would do little to stop Russian expansion currently. Where Russia has actually moved physically is Georgia and Ukraine. Non Nato countries...Although they have used some of the same tactics in small NATO countries as they used here in the US.
As NATO has expanded over the last decade adding countries in the Balkans and the old USSR satellites the entire area bordering the Adriatic Sea which led's into the Med is almost all NATO countries with a few more in the applying status.
Not to mention the fact that we already have bases that are closer than the ones in Germany, like those in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, South Korea and Japan.
Exactly.
I like the idea, but even with Polish financial help, I wonder at the cost of building a new base. Sounds really expensive.
Still, it seems like a better location and I'm guessing the government and the people might be more grateful to have us there.
I wonder if the fact that Poland has a right wing anti immigrant government and a burgeoning white nationalist movement had anything to do with the suggestion the author of the seed is making.
Good question. Dunno.
It is undeniable that a right wing movement has blossomed in Europe, the former Soviet Bloc and The British Isles. Even in America.
It is also undeniable that The Russian Federation is behind it all.
Unfortunately I have to disagree with the article. Trump has already been much harder on Russia than BO, Bush, or Clinton ever were and it hasn't mattered one bit.
… the US's sanctions are impacting the people of Russia, until President Putin is directly impacted by sanctions, they are nothing more than an annoying gnat at a BBQ to Putin.
Andrzej Duda, the president of Poland is actively undermining their judicial system, molding it to his agendas. He is also using race and religious persecution to bolster his right wing base.
I can see why Trump would favor moving troops into Poland to thusly insure a right wing state survive in the event the population revolts. On a move such as this, I am confident that The Russian Federation would not interfere, more likely they would aid in the propaganda campaign against Poland's free will and general independence.