California Tightens Drought Rules as Water Supply Dwindles to One Year
California Tightens Drought Rules as Water Supply Dwindles to One Year
Faced with a fourth year of drought, California officials on March 17 adopted emergency measures in an attempt to keep what is left of the states water supply intact.
A NASA scientist has declared that the state only has one year of water left.
As our wet season draws to a close, it is clear that the paltry rain and snowfall have done almost nothing to alleviate epic drought conditions, wrote Jay Famiglietti, the senior water scientist at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory/Caltech and a professor of Earth system science at UC Irvine, in a recent op-ed in the Los Angeles Times . January was the driest in California since record-keeping began in 1895. Groundwater and snowpack levels are at all-time lows. We're not just up a creek without a paddle in California, we're losing the creek too.
The State Water Resources Control Board tightened water-use restrictions and extended those that were implemented last year. California residents and business owners may not wash down sidewalks and driveways; water outdoor landscapes in a way that causes runoff; wash cars with a hose that does not have a shutoff nozzle; operate fountains that are not fed by a recirculating system, and may not irrigate turf or ornamental landscapes while its raining and for 48 hours afterward.
But more regulations are coming, a state official said.
We are experiencing the lowest snowpack and the driest January in recorded history, and communities around the state are already suffering severely from the prior three years of drought, said State Water Board Chair Felicia Marcus in a statement . If the drought continues through next winter and we do not conserve morethe consequences could be even more catastrophic than they already are. Todays action is just a tune-up and a reminder to act, and we will consider more significant actions in the weeks to come.
Famiglietti implied that these measures dont go far enough, soon enough.
Right now the state has only about one year of water supply left in its reservoirs, and our strategic backup supply, groundwater, is rapidly disappearing, he wrote in the March 13 piece. California has no contingency plan for a persistent drought like this one (let alone a 20-plus-year mega-drought), except, apparently, staying in emergency mode and praying for rain.
He called for immediate steps to be taken, including mandatory water rationing for everyone (rather than waiting till summer as the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California is considering); accelerate implementation of the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act of 2014, which mandates the creation of regional groundwater sustainability agencies within the next two years. By the time the agencies are formed and have implemented plans, there may be no groundwater left to sustain, he wrote.
In addition, he wrote, a state task force must be convened immediately to start planning long-term water management strategies, rather than the piecemeal approach of smaller agencies cropping up solely in response to the drought.
Today, not tomorrow, is the time to begin, he wrote, warning that truly dealing with long-term water scarcity will require major changes in policy and infrastructure and needs to involve the public, as well.
Tribes are already grappling with water issues as the result of the drought, with some even declaring states of emergency.
RELATED: Hoopa Valley Tribe Declares Drought Emergency as California Dries Out
Yocha Dehe Wintun Nation Declares Drought Emergency as California Water Shortage Continues
The severity of the drought may or may not be due to climate change and warming temperatures, though they certainly play a role, scientists said in a study released in December. Water temperature patterns in the Pacific Ocean were the culprits, the researchers said, and those would occur naturally. However, another study has warned to be prepared for megadroughts of 10 or 20 years.
Either way, the Sierra Nevada snowpack is at its lowest ever measured, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) said on March 11. And melting snowpack is a key component of water supply for California.
"Nearly a third of our [Snow Telemetry (SNOTEL)] sites in the Cascades and Sierra Nevada are reporting the lowest snowpack ever measured," NRCS Hydrologist Cara McCarthy said in the agencys statement. "For the first time, some sites were snow-free on March 1st. These areas can expect reduced summer streamflow."
Read more at http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/03/18/california-tightens-drought-rules-water-supply-dwindles-one-year-159642
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This has been warned about for years. Now, finally action, though late is better than no action.
I read somewhere that snowpack is at 8% of normal. This is a real nightmare, for sure.
Wildfires are going to be horrible this year, too, and there isn't going to be any water to fight it with. I sincerely wish the people who live there, the best of luck. I don't think they can build the desalinization plants fast enough, Kavika...
The first desalinization plant in San Diego comes on line in 2016 Dowser. As far as I know that is the only one under construction.
It's going to take a heck of a lot more than desalinization plants to get California out of this mess.
Yes, it is... I would think that drinking water would come first, but then, CA produces so very much of our food, it is going to be a hard choice. And then, there is industry, too.
One of the articles I read said that additional measures would be taken by the Water Resource people. I'm curious as to how they will try to solve this.
A heck of a lot of our food is grown in California. It's also one of the top cotton producing states.
IMO, it's going to get worse before it gets better.
I heard this morning on the news that they are going to limit watering of lawns to only two days a week here in the Coachella Valley. Then there was actually an asshole on who said that if he can't water his front lawn more often then all that would be left was a cactus. "Hey dumb ass! That's all that is SUPPOSED to be there!" Morons!
LOL, there shouldn't any lawn in the desert. What a dipshit the guy is.
There are 10's thousands of lawns in the desert out here and many people desperatly want to keep theirs. Guess what? It's going to be a long hot dry summer and your grass is going to die off and not come back. Funny? I never water the rocks in my yard and they don't die off? Neither do the cacti? In fact my sprinkler system is even plugged in.
This is going to be very interesting to watch over the next couple of years.
This is a game changer of enormous proportions and a wonderful lesson for all of us throughout the country. Maybe we will learn, maybe we won't.
Isn't even plugged in. Typo.
Grump, I recently read where more counties in NM and AZ have been added to the severe drought list, and will receive aid from the feds.
This should be a lesson to all of the SW. No more, kicking it down the road.
And untold golf courses that soak up water at record levels.
The golf course owners think they should be exempt because they bring tourism to the valley. However if all of the lawns in the area turn brown and die, who is going to want to come here anyway. Also the bulk of the golf courses are in developments and are open only to the people who live in that development anyway, so that just doesn't pass the laugh test.
I think it is going to get a lot worse.
This could mean a huge economic crisis, as well...
Yes it could Dowser. It's not just California, both NM and AZ now have a number of counties that are in extreme drought conditions, and cannot grow crops.
'bout time!
Beyond about time. I just hope it's not too late. I also hope it makes more golf courses use drought resistant grasses and that the lawn owners stop bitching. Xeriscaping!
Drought in the SW is nothing new :
I don't know anything about the effects of using salt water on pipes and plants, so maybe Dowser can fill us in on this, but what if water were directly drawn from the ocean for the purpose of flushing toilets, washing streets, watering lawns, fighting fires, etc, but saving the fresh or desalinated water for drinking and domestic washing? I know it would call for parallel pipelines to be built, but it seems to me that it would be an alternative to the disaster heading to California.
Salt water is usually not beneficial for land based regions . The alternative usually used is gray water .
It's a matter of historical record that the SW has suffered droughts before. That, of course is reason to understand that this drought could have severe repercussions. The SW now has a population that far exceeds the populations during prior droughts. Farming has used untold billions of gallons of water from limited ground supplies. The human element in this drought is making ita very serious situation.
Understanding the water situation, both ground water, snowmelt and rainfall, and how to conserve the limited supply is of paramount importance.
This is a semi arid land, and is not meant to supply unlimited food, population and all the water usage that goes with it.
It has been ignored for years. The chickens are coming home to roost.
Have you ever seen the movie "Chinatown" ? It hints at Cali's water problems .
Buzz, Dowser could best answer that question. The little that I know about it, is from having a boat in salt water, and living very close to the ocean. The salt affect on metal is very corrosive. I would imagine that the same would apply to pipelines. Salt water will kill most trees, grasses and bushes, so I think that part of it is out of the question.
Vegetables are going to skyrocket in price and we'll be importing more from Mexico and South and Central America. That also applies to everything that uses byproducts of veggies. Every thing from processed foods, fast foods, restaurants and even dog food.
OH NO ! Not dog food !
Yes, I seen the movie and enjoyed it. It did hint at the water problems.
Before and after...Lake Oroville, 2011 and 2014
That's an astonishing before & after photo . According to google that is fairly close to Chico in northern Cali .
That just one of many that are close to being dry Petey.
Let's see the magical Gov. Jerry Brown get them out of this ...
This was not Governor Brown's fault and he is working to minimize the damage and deal with the problem that was dumped onto his lap. To say anything disparaging about him when it comes to this is asinine.
Arnie did nothing even when he was warned this was coming.
Stop putting words in my mouth . I neither placed blame on Brown nor disparaged him . I merely expressed skepticism at his ability to deal with this crisis .
Salt water is very corrosive, and when added to freshwater in the sewage treatment plants would destroy the microbial action depended upon to break down the sewage into not so icky stuff. Washing streets with it, would be corrosive to car bodies, and you couldn't use it to water lawns.
Parallel pipelines are expensive, as are sewage pipelines, because it would have to be separate, as well. As it is, many places have problems with combined sewer overflow, where runoff from rainfall is mixed with the regular sewage... While a good idea, it would be impossible to implement in time, and would create a lot more problems in the long run... But, Buzz, your thinking of solutions is a very good start!
Astounding photo that brings the problem right home! Thanks for posting it!
I doubt any human could really deal with this crisis.
I guess the only use for ocean water would be for fire-fighting airplanes to load up with it (or does that cause risk to their structure?) Helicopters can dangle a huge scoop which might be expendable. Due to the drought and lack of water there will probably be more fires. For potable water it seems that more desalinization plants is the most reasonable solution.
Israel has expertise in desalinization so maybe it would be good to ask for their help.
Marq de Villiers was my client when I was in practice, and he wrote books about water and the future - he predicted eventual wars to obtain a water supply.
My GOD, K!!! That one picture is a total kick in the head!
Rough-guessing by the tree heights, it looks like that whole damn lake is at least 30-40 feet lower than in the 2011 photo... could be even more. If a significant chunk of the state looks like that, it's not just 'alarming', it's a disaster staring us right in the face...
Kiss the almond crop goodbye--- by the end of the year, an Almond Joy bar will going for about ten bucks on the black market.
Water-riots by mid-August...
And ya don't have to rake the pebbles or pull the stray boulders or trim the Mesquite. So what is the problem?
About a year ago, my husband and I watched a program about water wars for the future... It's going to be a mess.
I read that book Buzz, and it a great book. It's too bad that peopleweren't paying attention back than.
More like 70 feet Swamijim.
Here is a link that shows the before and after, of many of the lakes in California.
...
Ok folks, it's not a political article.
Evenin a best case scenario, and barring a miracle of epic proportions (such as getting unusual, enormous amounts of rain), this will be a devastating problem. What is the solution? I think for one thing we had best research where and how we could growthe food crops that are impacted by the drought. Also there will be a huge migration out of the area when there isn't any water left...where will those folks go?
All good points Larry. It's not just the rainfall, but much needed snowpack in the Sierra mountains that feeds much of California with water.
Also many wells are running dry, and some small towns are having to have their water trucked into them.
A few years ago, my wife and I visited Boulder Dam. Depth marks on the hills surrounding the lake behind the dam seemed to indicate the the lake had been much higher in the past. Our guide inside the dam told us all about water distribution to the various states and Mexico. I asked about the water level.
"It has never been this low, since the lake was created in the 1930s. We soon will be unable to supply the amounts that we are legally required to supply."
"If there isn't enough... then you can't supply it."
"Nope."
"Well... umm.. What is Plan B? "
"There is no Plan B."
That isn't going to cut it. Those towns will eventually fold under the pressure,,, no doubt about it. Then what? Move toa larger Californian town where the problem will eventually be even more pronounced? No, they will move out of state to where there are resources. Makes me wonder how many folks in California have their drinking and cleaning water affected?
Bob, I lived there for 9 years, we left in 2010, Lake Mead at that time was down 120 feet.
A couple of years ago they started a 3rd intake. They are afraid that the water will drop low enough that the two intakes will be too high to take the water into the Vegas valley. I don't know if the newest one is complete, but they were having a lot of problems with constructing it.
The lake got so low, that it was the first time since the lake was filled that they were able to see the small town that was flooded. They also found a B-29 bomber that had crashed into the lake just after WWII ended.
This is a current photo, and the ''bathtub ring'' shows clearly. You can see how far the lake has dropped.
By the time, if ever, they got it started it would be to late.They couldn't even keep up with evaporation that occurs Warferen.
Where is that water coming from, Larry? (The water trucked into the small towns...)
I'm going to assume that the one year supply is at current usage. Cutting usage by 1/2 may give them 2 years, or 3, if it does rain... Even small amounts would help.
But, yes, I agree with you-- people will move out of CA, and it is going to be a huge economic loss for the whole country. Our food supply will be drastically affected, as well.
My question is: Where will they move? Where will they go? I don't know of any state that has the infrastructure to handle a huge population shift... Maybe Detroit-- lots of unused land and lots of pipes... Meaning no disrespect to anyone.
I mean absolutely no meanness to anyone when I say this-- but what did they think? This has been ballyhooed about since the 1980s, and no one has listened...
Now, it's here. Crunch time. All the robbing from one watershed to pay another watershed in the world is not going to fix this.
It's a sad time, for all concerned.
I lived in California during the last bad drought, mid 1970's...Than we got snow and rain, and everyone forgot about it in less than a year. No state government controls on water usage, it was like it never happened.
Now, 40 years later, they are in the same, if not much worse situation. Only this time the AG business is much larger, the population has exploded, and more industry is there. All of these are huge water users.
People always forget what it's like to not have water-- when they have water.
I've been to towns that have one well that actually works. It would take a miracle to get another well drilled, or even an old one back on line, within a month. Yet, they never consider what on earth they are going to do if lightning strikes the pump. And it happens, frequently. (Wells are out in the middle of nowhere, and the pumps stick up out of the ground, and there usually isn't a lot of foliage around them, etc.)
I've been to towns that have two wells, and they rotate them. The trouble is, they're so close together, you can't turn one off and clean it, without sucking all the gunk up into the other one.
No one ever thinks what it would be like to run out of water, until they do. And, I blame the water boards and superintendents. It's their job to maintain and protect their water supply. The water boards have to let the city and town councils know what is happening. The superintendents have to let the water boards know.
I don't know who is in charge, in all these little places in CA, or anywhere else, for that matter. But they have let down their people, to not plan for emergencies-- and to ignore the problems for so long.
And, I also blame the people, who refuse to vote in the capital improvements to keep their water supplies reliable. There. That's it, the whole dang shebang.
Thinking the water will never run out in an area that is know to have droughts, and much of the state is semi-arid, is stupidity at it's best Dowser.
I can almost bet that if California gets a lot of rain and snow over the next couple of years, they will forget about this drought and go back to the same old ways.
Who should have done something? They would have had to start by outlawing grass lawns in the desert. And things like that.
Politicians?
The Vegas valley started the water conservation program around 2004...Yup, grass lawns are not outlawed completely, but you are only allowed a very small per cent of the total area of your lot to be grass. Sprinkler systems are checked. Clark country went on a real program. Paid X number of dollars per sq ft of lawn that a homeowner/business replaced.
Golf courses switched to drought tolerant grass, and re cycled water.
Over all the program has been a success. California on the other hand, did little to address the problem, and now they are behind the eight ball.
1. The state government-- i.e. Division of Water should have been educating and touting water conservation for the past 30 years.
2. Water superintendents should have been keeping an eye on their supply, and reporting to their water boards the realities of the situation, which have been ongoing for years.
3. Water boards, or whoever it is that manages the water supply should have been applying to the regulatory agencies for the funds to make capital improvements to the supply, just in case of drought, which is not unprecedented.
4. It should have been "sold" to the public that if we don't make these capital improvements, there won't be any water.
5. The people that voted down any funding should be made aware that they also contributed to the problem.
6. Zoning and planning could have easily nixed any plans for golf courses that used an inordinate amount of water, or required them to recycle.
Shall I go on? There are literally so much that could have been done from 30 years ago...
Water management and protection is a multi-level, multi-faceted approach to the problem. We manage it here in KY, and we're supposedly not too bright. Surely CA could have done it.
Clark country went on a real program. Paid X number of dollars per sq ft of lawn that a homeowner/business replaced.
We have a program like that here too, but unfortunately I didn't hear about it until past the time I could have received government help for replacing my lawn with crushed rock. That's OK, I would have done it anyway.
Kavika, that picture scares the bedoofus out of me...
Kavika,
... and Vegas hotels have shut down their fountains... right?
The areas where the water is not need to make some serious cuts in their consumption and some lifestyle changes. Soon the less populated areas where the water is will have enough population to use most all of it locally.
Other Recreation around
Shasta Lake
Shasta County has a wide variety of recreation opportunities for visitors. Several golf courses are nearby.
Hiking, birding, mountaineering, and caving are popular in the Shasta area. Nearby Lake Shasta Caverns offer daily tours.
Cycling and mountain biking also have a strong following around Shasta.
Turtle Bay Exploration Park in Redding has a museum, gardens, animals, and the famous Sundial Bridge .
TOP
Shasta Lake - a Recreation Paradise
Shasta Lake
Boating
Map
Shasta Lake's 365 miles of shoreline make it unique among California Lakes. Behind 602-foot tall Shasta Dam three great arms of water stretch up the canyons of the major rivers which feed the lake: the Sacramento, the McCloud and the Pit. A half-dozen lesser arms add to Shasta Lake's complexity. Covering 30,000 acres, Shasta Lake is California's largest reservoir and ranks 3rd overall in size among all lakes behind the Salton Sea and Lake Tahoe.
Current Shasta Lake Water Level
Boating
Shasta Lake is above all, a boater's paradise. The long, winding shoreline provides a seemingly endless number of inlets and bays to explore. Houseboats cruise from cove to cove, usually with scenic views of snow-clad Mount Shasta and the forested shoreline. Because much of the water lies in protected inlets, Shasta doesn't suffer the stiff winds that many other more exposed lakes do. Waterskiers and other water sports enthusiasts love Shasta Lake's smooth surface.
Marinas
Shasta Lake has marinas scattered around its shores with ample facilities for launching and mooring. Service docks make it convenient for boaters to enjoy all the wonders of Shasta Lake.
Fishing
Fishing at Shasta Lake is excellent. Although the lake is home to more than twenty species of fish, trout and bass are most often sought by anglers. Rainbow and brook trout are stocked in the lake annually by the California Department of Fish and Game. Largemouth, spotted, and smallmouth bass are found in Shasta Lake. Chinook salmon and crappies also draw the attention of anglers. Fishing is good both from shore and by boat.
Camping
Shasta Lake has a good number of campgrounds and RV Parks. National Forest Campgrounds are found along the three main arms of the lake. Boat-In campsites are also available. A number of nearby RV Parks add additional choices for camping.
Lodging
Shasta Lake has a number of outstanding resorts along its shores. Some are luxury resorts while others are more reasonably priced. As in most resort lake areas, rental cabins can be found for reasonable prices, providing a comfortable retreat for families or groups.
Scenery
With 14,000-foot Mount Shasta towering nearby and thickly forested mountains encompassing the lake, Shasta is one of the most beautiful settings for recreation in the state. The varied channels and inlets give it the feel of a much smaller, more intimate lake.
Nearby Communities
The city of Redding, only 12 miles south of Shasta Lake has everything you would need in the way of supplies and services from boat repairs to movie theaters, from sporting goods to motels. Closer to Shasta Lake is Project City and Central Valley where workers lived during the construction of the dam. They have all the amenities you would expect to find in a small community.
No they haven't Bob, not all casino/hotels have fountains.
I did some research on that when I was living there, and can't remember what the deal was. I'll have to go thorough my records and see the agreement that was reached.
It will be later this afternoon when I get back home to do it.
Do you notice the bath-tub like ring around Shasta Lake? They have water shortages, too.
It seems that every golf course and walled off community here have huge fountains in front of them, with lots of grass too. It's rare to see one that doesn't. And the fairways are always a nice, bright, well-watered, emerald green.
It's no big deal. Don't make too much effort...
We gawked at the hotels on that same trip when we saw Lake Mead. The low water-level in the lake, juxtaposed with the fountains... was all the more impressive...
I ought to go outside sometime and wash my rocks off...just to see if the neighbors turn me in.
The (relatively inexpensive) courses where we are passholders here in Yuma use recycled water. From the smell of it, sometimes, not all that recycled...
But this is only a stopgap. Some day, that water must go for more immediate needs...
I should certainly HOPE so!
Bob,
The Bellagio, which has the largest water fountains and lake, has it's own well and water rights. The water that they use for the lake and fountains is their own, and does not come from Lake Mead.
They have also installed every possible water saving device in the hotel and casino.
Hope that helps.
Exactly right Dowser.
This is where I bring in my old buddy,
-- Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Excellent Bob.
And ya don't have to rake the pebbles or pull the stray boulders or trim the Mesquite.
And don't have to pay someone to to mow my rocks like the neighbor does with his lawn! He has a beautiful bright green lawn and his gardener violates every water use rule.
The visual is a little overwhelming.
I know that there are some cities in CA and the SW that are using gray water.
As far as the cisterns go. They are in use in West Australia. My daughter has one, as do most of the grandkids. Works great.
I claim no expertise. It seems to me, though, that water is like every other "environmental" topic.
Until people actually feel that waste is wrong... real progress will be difficult.
The price of gas drops, and truck sales skyrocket. There are more trucks than cars in Yuma, and most of them never use their loadbeds for anything that wouldn't go into a car's trunk. As long as "trucks are sexy"...
Either feel waste is wrong, or having to pay for it. That's seems to be the only way many people understand the problem.
The truck example is perfect. I see the same thing around here. Trucks everywhere, few use them for their intended purpose.
At home in France, fuel is $7 or $8 per gallon. People do not waste gas! Pickups are rare... but you can rent one any time you really need one.
Why rent one, when you can buy a $50,000 Turbo Diesel, 4x4 dueleyto go to the store in, at 10 MPH. /s
... with a four-foot jacked suspension and thirty-inch chromed wheels...
Ahhhh, you forgot the winch, and the cow guard. Never can tell when you might be charged by a 1800 lb bull in downtown Phoenix.
I almost ran into Joakim Noah, outside the USAirways Arena...
Of course he's only a "Chicago" Bull, and only weighs about 250...
----------------------------
Oh, also... Your pricing is out of date. Your dually runs closer to 75k, once you hang on the "necessary" options...
Why do you feel that it's bullshit #1? JPL employees many types of scientists. I would think that there are some ways that they inter-relate.
LOL, good one Bob.
$75 grand for a truck. It had better come with a chauffer and a house.
Mike,
Back in the 1970s, Congress mandated NASA to study the Earth. You see, NASA has these things called "satellites", way, way up in the sky, that can take really, really cool pictures of the world. And stuff like that...
And on some of these pictures, there are big areas that appear to be "blue". It turns out that these zones are water! Can you imagine it? There are really, really big parts of the world that are entirely covered with water!
Maybe that's why they need experts on water?
#1, NASA, in it's space exploration theywould have a need for a scientist in water related matter. They do study the water that found in space and on other planets.
I would think that having the space expertise, and equipment (shuttle et al) to lend their expertise and finding, to state and local government would be a good thing.
Youare correct, in that there are many overlapping entities that are redundant and need to be eliminated.
If I remember correctly, you were one in the other article that I posted on the drought, that thought it was BS. It seems that it isn't bullshit, but a very important change that is going on, and it needs to be addressed.
That's really the bottom line here #1. Because if this drought situation continues, it will not only be California that suffers, but a good part of the U.S. will be caught up in it.
#1, we are each entitled to our opinion. You evidently don't think that NASA's mission is to be involved in the earth. I disagree. I believe that it is part and parcel of their mission.
You have a very strong opinion, since you keep calling it bullshit. If you look at it from a more encompassing view, you may seen that your incorrect in your viewpoint. Or you can stick with calling things that you don't agree with, bullshit.
It's your choice.
Yes, Bob's comment was condescending, but you have to look at your comment before you start finger pointing. Bullshit and complaining about overlapping government agencies and the like is not the subject. It's the drought in California.
If it is really water, then it contains oxygen. I would think that if a person were on another planet, they would seek it out not for re-hydration, but also for the removal of the O2 in it. An another planet I suspect a little extra O2 could hurt to have around.
Aha!! That's why Area 51 is in the desert! To make sure the aliens land far, far away from all that oxygen...
So very clever.........
They valley does have a rather large Aquifer they could tap into. Enough last the valley for years to come all by itself. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending your point of view, it's nearly all under the land of the Aqua Fria nation. The local government (very stupidly) took them to court, instead of just asking if they could buy some. Now they will go along with the valley on taking some of it, but the price will by very high. I have to think that if they had just sat down with the tribal leaders something could have been worked before tempers flared.
You see the Aqua Fria people only number about 400 and they own one of the the most profitable casino in this part of the country (The Morongo), they also own a good size of the land under Palm Springs it self. The last time there was an argument over who owned the land, a large portion of where the housing was built are lived in by people who own the house, but they lease the land under it from the tribe. The land solution was to cut a big part of the land around Palm Springs (there was nothing built there then. into a big checkerboard and make ever 2nd building lot private. The tribe owns the land next to you, but you own both your the land and the house, your neighbor on the other side is on tribal land and so on an so forth. Every 2nd building site is for sale to whoever wants a house there and the one right next to it is tribal land so anyone who wants a home on one the tribes building lots can only own the land under their home if the tribe wants to sell it., has to pay about another $1,000 a year (just based on what were were quoted 3 years ago while looking to retire here, so they figure the less lease into the cost total to buy the house and get a guarantee the tribe won't change their minds when the agreement runs out. THEN it's going get REALLY interesting. But they haven't put the disputed, land under some homes in Palm Springs and so far they haven't. Because Palm Springs need the tribe, a whole lot more then the tribe needs Palm Spring. But that land agreement is up in 2020 (I could be wrong about the date) and people are hoping the tribe will re-new the check board concept again, for a price.The land itself doesn't much mean anything, because who wants a checker board of either side and the truth is (I believe) mostly talks about getting rid of the checker board pattern. And there is a very large part of Palm Springs that was "Grandfathered" into to being owned be whoever owned it at the time of the agreement. Like the tribe doesn't own the downtown area.
The whole tribe is so rich they probably could buy the whole town. They're all multimillionaires, but they know we want to tap into the water under their lands and, while they certainly don't need the money, they know we want it badly. That makes it very valuable. The state, the county and city have lost ever court decision and they will lose them all. A compromise might happen, such as just resigning the same building squares the way they are now. I guess many years ago when they both agreed on a checker board for all of the new housing (The tribe doesn't own the land under the city itself, but a fair piece of the suburbs.
Whoever decided to just go a head with a lawsuit instead of consulting with the tribal leaders should be shot.
AND THEN we get to talk about access to the water. They (the tribe) have no agriculture, so as I said, they really don't need all of that water. Most of the valley is hopeful on a water agreement far in advance of talks about the land itself and there are rumors about many private deals between home and business owners on the land, but it's my understanding that the judge might not let private sales in the county on selling the land where you live and talk of giving much county and town to the tribe a big piece of government owned land in one piece That's near enough too Palm Springs that maybe they could just sell chunks. The one thing they ALL agree on is that the checker board idea was crazy. The tribal leaders hate the whole checker board idea too. Who wants to own a checkerboard of land? The tribe doesn't, Palm Springs doesn't and I doubt there would be very few of those living on tribal land, who wants it to keep happening. I'm sure it made sense to some people back then. Oh BTW I DO own the land under my house. We live way too far to the East to be in the checker board.
I would give very, very much to be a fly on the wall during both the land and the water negotiation agreements! Who knows, maybe they'll come to an agreement on both at the same time and be done with the the whole. I am not an attorneys and laws get changed all of the time, but I think SOME of the local governments are over a barrel and both sides know it.
But NASA does have something to do with it #1. That is the point.
I agree that government can/is out of control in many ways. On the other hand there is a lot of good work that is done by them.
As for bringing Indians into it, I would say that NASA would do a better job than the BIA, which is a totally useless organization IMO.
NASA, in it's space exploration would soon discover that the ''Red Planet'' belongs to Indians. So stay the hell away from it.
Interesting points that you brought up MM. As for the checker board, my Uncle was involved in that, on the Indian side of course at it's inception. Although not of their tribe he was an Indian, and lawyer. The negotiation were ''interesting'' to say the least.
The water situation is a ''no go'' for the city, county and state. Unless they reach an agreement with the tribe they are, in a word, shit out of luck. It's important to understand the background and culture of the tribe. They, the city, county and state, went about it in the worse possible way. With arrogance and thinking they could have what they wanted. An age old problem that whites have had in dealing with Indians. By them doing that, they sealed their own fate, if the tribe choses, your going to pay through the nose for the water, if the government officials get off their high horse (pun intended), acknowledge that they were assholes in approaching it the way they did, an agreement may be reached that will allow some water to be sold to the city.
We remember all the government dealing, screwing and lies that have been perpetrated on us. Our memories are long, so trusting anything that the government states, is viewed with extreme prejudice by Indians.
Also, if I remember correctly, the tribe owns a bottling plant that sells bottled water to one of the bottled water companies.
I believe that the Aqua Caliente tribe of Palm Springs were subject to the ''tribal termination act'' which in essence said they were no longer Indians, and all the associated trama that went with it. Memories are long MM.
Yup, aware of that #1. What happened in some instances, is that big business bought their way into water usage. One only has to look at northern CA. and the battles being fought between Indians with ''water rights'' and big AG.
It isn't that I don't care #1. I do care, but we seem to be at loggerheads about the role of NASA. You don't believe they should have anything to do with it. On the other hand, I do believe that they should. Impasse?
What is at stake here, IMO, goes far beyond bitching about who shot John #1.
Would the simplest the long term solution be to radically decrease the growing of water hogging crops in Cali ? That would be the approach I would look at first .
Petey, that has already started it cut backs to the AG water suppy in the Central Valley of CA.
Being one of the largest producers of food and dairy products to the U.S. there will be a problem with that as well...Much higher prices.
California is also one of the largest producers of cotton, which is a huge export for the U.S. losing that crop will mean a large decrease in our exports. At this time any decrease will make the already horrible ''balance of trade'' even worse.
I believe it's going to end up one day with, ''chose your poison''.
This to me is very frightening. It is probably a good lesson in not taking things for granted.
It is a great lesson in not taking things for granted Dowser.
I don't perceive the amount of economic fallout that you do Kavika . There are other states that can grow cotton as well as dairy .
Yes there are Petey, but thus far they can't compete with CA. There will be a fallout, how big remains to be seen.
This is probablybest map showing privatly owned lots intermingle with tribal lots. As you can see in some areas the land has been sold. Still the no longer complete chekerboared still viable. Especially in the land to the East and North East of Palm Springs. And to the Northwestas well. The ledgend is very difficult to read however. A big part of it is going to be a mess to sort out,especially the devloped area.
It takes awhile to open, but you can see why if house hunting, you have to find out if YOU own the lot ot the tribe does.
Quantifying damage is a tricky art at best . But one states loss are a gain to other states ... in those cases the south for cotton and FLA for dairy [& maybe Wisconsin ?] .
Anything is possible Petey. I'm sure the gain would be in foreign countries for the cotton and AG products.
Good point about cotton . It can be grown in many places . But 3rd world nations can't afford to lose land that is needed to grow food .
Mike,
At the risk of sounding condescending... Let me repeat: NASA was mandated by Congress FORTY YEARS AGO, to study the Earth.
Your ignoring my previous post doesn't make reality disappear. In observing California's water supply, NASA is doing what Congress required.
YOU may feel that NASA should not be doing this, but -- surprise! -- YOU do not decide what NASA is to do. Your personal opinion is worth, roughly, nothing at all.
Petey, this chart will show you how important dairy and produce is to California and the U.S.
Food Facts
California has been the number one food and agricultural producer in the United States for more than 50 consecutive years.
More than half the nation's fruit, nuts, and vegetables come from here.
California is the nation's number one dairy state.
California's leading commodity is milk and cream. Grapes are second.
California's leading export crop is almonds.
Nationally, products exclusively grown (99% or more) in California include almonds, artichokes, dates, figs, kiwifruit, olives, persimmons, pistachios, prunes, raisins, clovers, and walnuts.
From 70 to 80% of all ripe olives are grown in California.
California is the nation's leading producer of strawberries, averaging 1.4 billion pounds of strawberries or 83% of the country's total fresh and frozen strawberry production. Approximately 12% of the crop is exported to Canada, Mexico, United Kingdom, Hong Kong and Japan primarily. The value of the California strawberry crop is approximately $700 million with related employment of more than 48,000 people.
California produces 25% of the nation's onions and 43% of the nation's green onions.
Gilroy, California, "Garlic Capitol of the World," has hosted 2 million at the annual Gilroy Garlic Festival.
THIS IS INFORMATION ON THE COTTON INDUSTRY IN CA.
California [ edit ]
Californias cotton is mostly grown in seven counties within the San Joaquin Valley , though Imperial Valley and Palo Verde Valley also have acres planted. In the 1990s cotton was also planted in the Sacramento Valley . California is the largest producer of Pima cotton in the United States. The California cotton industry provides more than 20,000 jobs in the state and generates revenues in excess of $3.5 billion annually. [ 29 ]
Petey, we already import a lot of fruit and veggies.
In 2007 we started importing more fruit then we exported.
Petey, here is a link to the top 10 cotton producing countries. The U.S. is number 3, behind China and Indian.
Good find MM. I've been following the case and was waiting for a decision.
One of the more interesting parts is bringing in the Colorado River water, which is a much lower grade of water.
It will be interesting to see what happens now.
We grow strawberries in Fla as well . And avocados . But not much of the rest . Cotton has historically been grown in the south . I suppose that some acreage has been taken over by soybean production ... but if cotton is cut from Cali it could be made up from the south's production . And Fla is one of the biggest dairy states there is . Something's gotta give to ease Cali's drought . It could be the production of those crops .
I looked up how much water does it take to produce an acre of cotton-- just to get an idea... I found this article that says one plant requires about 10 gallons of water. Then, it said that it takes about 18" of water to bring a cotton crop to full production. It said that there is 27,193 gallons per acre inch, so I guess that if you go with that number times 18, it would require 489,474 gallons of water per acre of cotton. LINK
All these numbers were for the southeast US, though, and it is more humid there than in CA-- where things dry out more quickly. Typical pan evaporation rates in CA vary quite a bit between different parts of the state, and I don't know where they grow cotton in CA. Does anyone know?
Here is the link to the CA pan evaporation rates, and for the whole US. Fortunately, you don't have to scroll down much to find CA... LINK
Pan evaporation rates are based on how much water evaporates during different months of the year in a pan of water-- it represents how much water is lost from the soils and surface water bodies. So, I would think that in addition to the 18" of water to grow a crop, you would have to add the number of inches lost to evaporation. (Transpiration rates of plants are always in addition to the water lost through evaporation-- yielding a total water loss through evapotranspiration. This is one of the factors we consider when calculating a water budget for an area.)
For example, if they grow cotton in Antioch, CA and it's surrounding area during the months of May-September, pan evaporation rates are:
If you add that together, you get 49.23". Soil usually holds more moisture than an open body of surface water, so even if you estimate that it loses only 1/4 of the amount of water held in a lake, for example, you're still adding 12.31" to the total of 18", for a total of 30.31" of water per acre of cotton, or (X 27,193 gallons per acre) 842,220 gallons. Per acre.
This probably all sounds like gobbledy gook, but it could matter, a lot.
Mike's link shows either acres harvested or acres planted, along with other things, but I can't get it to load. If someone else can get it to load, we can estimate about how much water it takes to grow the cotton crop in CA. But, Mike reports that CA harvests 363,000 acres of cotton.
We can grow cotton in KY, but it is hard on the soil, and we can only grow it in the extreme western portion of the state, as the growing season is longer there, and their soils are derived from the Mississippi river deposits, called the Mississippi embayment. Our soils in the rest of the state are derived mainly from limestone, sandstones, shale, and siltstone, making a completely different kind of soil.
Other states south of us can grow cotton, though, because their growing season is longer. We can't, however, grow oranges or lemons or limes or any of that kind of produce in KY-- and I don't know how much water it takes to grow those things, either, although the USGS might know and publish it.
I don't know that any of this helps, but it may help explain why so much water is used for agricultural purposes.
I think the valley will end up reaching a very expensive for water.
MIG, it's late so I'll answer your comment tomorrow.
But just for a start, much of West Texas has drained their water source because of mismanagement of it. Also if I remember correctly CA grow a totally different type of cotton than the other states, which may answer the yield question. They also have a longer growing season.
The rest tomorrow.
Note: If anyone knows CA well enough to know place names, then we can likely find the correct pan evaporation rates for those areas that Kavika listed above.
According to Kavika's prior comment :
"Californias cotton is mostly grown in seven counties within the San Joaquin Valley , though Imperial Valley and Palo Verde Valley also have acres planted. In the 1990s cotton was also planted in the Sacramento Valley . California is the largest producer of Pima cotton in the United States."
I know, Petey, but the list of places that measure pan evaporation rates are listed by cities and locations, like the Fall River Mills Intake-- they don't say what area they are in... That's why I asked. I don't have any idea where anything is in CA-- I've never really studied a road map of CA, only fault lines and formations. Someone familiar with the area could easily figure out if these cities are in the areas that Kavika listed.
See what I mean? I have no idea where the San Joaquin Valley, or those places are-- or where the cities are. Someone familiar with the area would likely know.
If my wife didn't hate the winter up North so much, we would have retired in Michigan
Thanks, Mike-- I'm going to start a new thread, so we don't have to scroll so much...
Mike, are any of these place names in the San Joaquin, Imperial, or Palo Verde valleys? This is how the pan evaporation rates are listed... That one farmer sure had a LOT of cotton! Holy cow!
I think there is a way to combine & overlay these various info sources onto one map using google maps ...
I don't know how to do that... Do you? I mean, I wish I could, but don't know how...
#1, yup article states that there is only a one year supply of water left in the reservoir system. Now lets look at the other ''portion'' of their water...The Colorado river and the Sacramento Delta are two of the main ones.
Do you think that there is ''fine'' shape?
The overall picture is that if the drought continues, the problem is going to be severe.
MIG, what makes you think that Cali thinks that they better than anyone else? The same could be said of most states including yours.
You don't care what happens to their economy. How about the economy of NM, AZ, and Texas. They are starting to suffer from the drought as well.
I guess as long as nothing affects GA, to hell with the rest of the states.
MIG if the economy failed because of the drought the ripple effect would hit GA as well.
MIG, nope, they are in a drought, PERIOD. It's severe and if it lasts it's going to have a detrimental effect on the state and region.
This drought extends too AZ, NM and TX.
Water is a commodity, something that many people don't realize. Climates have changed over time and will continue to do so.
We, in the US have never considered it a commodity, since there seemed to be an unending supply. Well, that simply isn't true. We have poisoned lakes, rivers, wells, etc with an unending supply of poisons.
Everyone can bitch about NASA, that isn't the problem. LACK OF WATER IS.
We can keep our head stuck in the sand, or address the problem The choice is ours.
No MIG, I'm not saying, nor have I hinted at supporting the waste of water.
I am a firm believerin ''seven generations''. It's a cultural thing for Indians.
Instead of the progress at any cost, it's time that we looked at the long term affect, and what it will bring to our gggggg grandchildren.
I agree with you! They have overused the resource to the point that it is not going to be replenished in our lifetimes, for sure.
OK then, Mike...
Let's get this straight right away. If you want to dance, I'll be your partner.
You're a smart guy. Everybody knows that. You don't post crap by accident. You do it on purpose, to stir the pot. You know that if I see you doing it, I'll react. You already know that. It will not go well, for you, for me, for NT.
But you know that I'll dance with you if you lead...
Even if the girl is usually expected to follow, hmmm, Lucy?
#1, you can blame NASA, your well known for hating the government.
But that isn't the problem, it's lack of water.
I would think that someone with your intellect, could and would, discuss solutions to the real existing problem, and not spend your time complaining about the government.
Bob, let's not go there.
That is one of the points that many seem to miss Dowser.
I don't want to go there. But I'll follow Mike's lead if he does...
I'll make it simply for both of you. If you want to hammer each other, take it to HD...
DO NOT get into a pissing match on this article.
For pity's sake, Mike! If you're going to post to a conversation, you probably should follow it !
One thing that few people realize is that reservoirs begin life as a recharge to the aquifer, producing a large bulge in the groundwater table, nearby, until the groundwater levels around the reservoir is the same as the water in the reservoir.
So, where you see a lot of lowering of the water levels in the reservoir, you're also seeing the corresponding drop in the water table.
That's very interesting. I was one of the many who don't know this... but I'm getting better... Thank you!
This, on the other hand... I would prefer NOT to have learned.
A couple years ago, I read that when the Anglos arrived in the Yuma area (1850s, after the Mexican War), the water table was about 150 feet down. It is now down to 500 feet.
That is a VERY cool symbol! It could probably serve as an avatar, for a French Socialist.
Oh wait!
Also:
Yes it is MIG, and that is happening in some of the small towns in California. There wells have gone dry, and as a temporary measure drinking water is being trucked in to them. That is not going to do it.
The Ogalala aquafier, one of the largest in the US, is a good case study of how and why this happens, and directly relates to the lack of water now in west Texas.
Yep. Most streams here in the east, alternately convert from recharging streams, (those that recharge the aquifer), during floods, to discharging streams, (the flow is fed by groundwater). I see no reason why that wouldn't be true out west, either.
A long-term reservoir is going to recharge the groundwater and water table until they are equal to the level of water in the reservoir. During the dry parts of the season, the flow of the stream is determined by the groundwater contribution to the stream. During wet seasons, when the streams overflow their banks, they contribute to the groundwater recharge. Each stream in unique in its contribution to the entire system...
ABsolutely!!! Isn't hydrogeology neat? It all makes sense...
* * * sigh * * *
''sigh'', don't give up Bob..Soon it will become clear as mud.
Excellent graph and explanation Dowser.
Here in Yuma, we track the looming water crisis. Back home in Calais, we worry about floods.
I don't suppose that we could run a really big, really long pipe........ No, I guess not...
* * * sigh * * *
Actually Bob, that was proposed a couple of years ago, by the water district in NV. Of course not from France, but from regions in the Midwest that are prove to flooding.
It would to have been to take the flood waters to NV and the Colorado river.
I worked in pipeline coating for a long time. There were a couple of projects in North Africa (Algeria and Libya) to pipe water from the Mediterranean into the desert. Those were BIG motherly pipes! Thirty-foot diameters -- couldn't hold their own weight, would collapse if not constantly maintained.
I don't think any of the projects ever finished. Lack of funds, and then Arab Spring...
I've always thought that we could run a pipeline out there for water, and in return, get power back. We have lots of water! But could reduce the use of coal-fired power plants...
Yeah, that won't work, I'm sure.
Actually #1, the ice caps are melting, so half the problem is solved.
Yup. The water pipes were to parallel existing oil pipes going the other way.
... and when California disappears under the rising waves, the problem will be entirely solved!
Aside from 2 and 5, which I presume were included for comic relief of this otherwise depressing topic... the others all seem pretty reasonable.
Did you know that way back when, there were "dry" toilets, along side flush toilets? The dry toilets had a system that sprinkled quicklime over the shit. Once in a while, the toilet -- a drawer system -- had to be emptied, kinda like an RV toilet must be emptied.
I suppose that the inconvenience of emptying killed the dry toilet.
Maybe it isn't too late.
Does anyone know what fraction of fresh water goes down our toilets?
There are so many people, full of shit, that the flush toilet can't handle the flow.
A slit trench is an adequate solution, since it will act as fertilizer.
Let me reformulate...
Oh wait... that's what the toilet does...
Actually? Not so much. Or you'd have European gas prices instead of a huge, inefficient CAFE bureaucracy.
Kavika
My son (lives in San Francisco and a naturalized tree hugger by his own admission) sent me a link to this article about the drought conditions in California which is an interestingview on the subject/
Thanks for the link RIO,
It is factual history that the west/California has undergone many changes in climate. The oral history of Indian tribes and their migration patterns tell usthe whole history of it.
The problem as I see it RIO, is the inability to look and understand the past, or want to understand it.
I will be reading the book mentioned in the link.
Gee...
The good news just keeps on keepin' on!
It's like the States: depends on where. Just in France (about 1/6 of the Lower 48) I've seen draught in the south and floods in the north.
You know Mike, if dollar bills were bullshit, you'd be independently wealthy.
Your telling an Indian that the government lies!!!! LOLOLOLOL.
It may be somewhere, but not here, Mike. It is subjected to treatment, and is put back into our surface water supplies-- no one would actually drink it. It basically just gets the chunks out, and microbial action cleans up some of the dissolved crud. Then, it is highly chlorinated to kill germs, and aerated to remove the chlorine, then, poured back into rivers and streams...
Also, I can look up, somewhere, how much water a toilet uses and how Louisville calculates average household use, but I don't know that it would apply to everyone. I've seen it before, somewhere...
Water rates are calculated by the Utility Regulatory Commission, and they will raise rates a lot, if you can get it passed by them.