Saudi officials to admit writer died in interrogation gone wrong, sources say
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
ANKARA, Turkey — The Saudis are preparing a report that will acknowledge that Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi's death was the result of an interrogation that went wrong, one that was intended to lead to his abduction from Turkey, according to two sources.
One source says the report will likely conclude that the operation was carried out without clearance and transparency and that those involved will be held responsible.
One of the sources acknowledged that the report is still being prepared and cautioned that things could change.The Washington Post columnist was last seen in public when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in Turkey on October 2.
Trump also said he dispatched Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to meet with King Salman, during a Sunday night phone call.
Previously, Saudi authorities had maintained Khashoggi left the consulate the same afternoon of his visit, but provided no evidence to support the claim.
Khashoggi's fiancée, Hatice Cengiz, who was waiting outside the consulate, says she did not see him re-emerge.
The disappearance created a diplomatic rift between Saudi Arabia and the West. Amid the fallout, international firms pulled out of a high-profile investment summit, the Future Investment Initiative conference, due to take place later this month in Riyadh.
The case also caused friction between Saudi Arabia and Turkey, which has repeatedly accused the Saudis of failing to cooperate with their investigation.
Turkish authorities previously said they believed that 15 Saudi men who arrived in Istanbul on October 2 were connected to Khashoggi's disappearance and possible murder. At least some of them appear to have high-level connections in the Saudi government.
On Friday, a source familiar with the investigation told CNN that Turkish authorities have audio and visual evidence that shows journalist Khashoggi was killed inside the consulate.
CNN reporters saw Turkish investigators, including forensics officers, entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul Monday evening. Saudi officials had granted permission for the premises to be searched, a Turkish diplomatic source told CNN, and police were seen cordoning off the area before investigators arrived. Turkish officials also wanted to search the nearby consul general's residence.
On the airplane, State Department Spokesperson Heather Nauert told reporters that Secretary Pompeo "looks forward to meeting with King Salman."
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This statement by Trump of "rogue killers" is like his 400lb. man in his mothers basement remark concerning the Russia investigation. Trump doesn't want to admit that his Saudi friends are worse than ISIS because that would be admitting that he does business with terrorists.
Why is it up to Trump to explain any aspect of this? He didn't kill the guy.
Where did I say Trump had to explain it? What he is trying to do is excuse it, there is a difference. In Trumps mind the dead journalist is just that, a dead journalist, he doesn't care, one because, Jamal was a journalist and, two because, he wasn't a citizen of the U.S. and, three because the Saudi prince owns a portion of Trumps empire and, has promised to buy a bunch of weapons from the U.S. So, with Trump it's all about the money.
You're talking about his statements as if they matter. The press is asking him about it as if he knows anything about it.
He hasn't done any such thing.
Actually he condemned it and vowed to get to the bottom of it.
And that was something he cited when he talked about getting to the bottom of it.
If he can make a deal that takes money from the Saudis and gives Americans jobs, that sounds like a good thing. If it turns out that the Saudi leadership is responsible, there are other ways to sanction them.
HE'S THE FUCKING PRESIDENT OF COURSE HIS STATEMENTS MATTER. He should, it's his CIA and, FBI that should be investigating what the fuck happened there!
Yes, he has,
And, he is still willing to sell arms to the Saudi's so they can kill more of their citizens with them.
Trump had this to say about the killing later in the day,
So, the spilling of more Saudi citizens blood means nothing. Got it.
Was he there? Is he conducting the investigation himself?
You said he was excusing it. He has not said it would be ok or that there is a good reason for it. That's what "excusing it" would look like.
Yes he is, because selling arms to the Saudis employs Americans and helps America's economy. Do you care about those things? Do you deny that there might be some other appropriate action (assuming they are responsible) we could take in response?
You keep ignoring that he said that.
There is no justification for such a statement. We are investigating the matter, on the president's order. When we have confidence about what actually happened - as opposed to media-fueled speculation - then we can talk about appropriate actions to take.
For now, it would be irresponsible to just knee-jerk/shoot-from-the-hip start punishing people or governments without proof of wrongdoing. If we are going to take serious action against Saudi Arabia, we need to be able to justify to the international community. For the region, destabilizing Saudi Arabia would be exceedingly dangerous.
So, using this logic we should be selling arms to China, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Vietnam and, any other country with a despotic murdering dictator running it because, it will create American jobs.
"The presidents order" doesn't matter in Turkey, the FBI, which is the agency that would look into it, can't go into Turkey and, investigate this without the Turkish government saying they can and, the last I heard they had not given permission for the FBI to investigate.
The Turkish government has already release the audio tape of what happened in the consulate, would you like the video released to the national news as well, I'm sure it will be great viewing for any kids out there.
Oh, I agree with this, no knee jerk reactions to anything without proof, here ya go,
The international community is already taking action and, is looking at the U.S. with a "what the fuck" expression on its face.
With that "crown prince" in charge they are already "destabilized".
We do sell arms to Vietnam and at least a couple dozen other countries . A lot of them do things we don't agree with. You seem to be feeling pretty judgy about this today. Are you going to break down all the behaviors of all these countries and insist we stop selling them arms?
It's about $40 billion dollars a year in sales. That's steady jobs for thousands of Americans. Why are you in such a hurry to eliminate that?
And you know this how?
I was referring to State department. Yes Turkey is investigating it, but I wonder how much they would care if our Secretary of State wasn't there prodding them.
Why do you object to more investigation of all available evidence before we take action? I'm not even saying we shouldn't respond. All I'm saying is let's try to be sure about the facts. You don't know anything about the authenticity or completeness of the tape.
I don't take my cues from the international community, and I hope our presidents never do either.
The alternative is likely far worse. Think: Egypt.
There is this new thing, it's called the news, ever hear of it?
Bwahahahahahaha, I guess you haven't heard, our Secretary of State went over to Saudi Arabia to compare notes on what to tell the world concerning this and, had a really good time yukking it up with the prince, he never went to Turkey, he's back here now giving Trump the talking points he and, the prince decided on yesterday.
Jamal was wearing an Apple watch which was sinced with his cell phone, everything that happened to him in the consulate was recorded on his phone and, his girlfriend had the phone with her out side the consulate.
Yes. Thank goodness we have objective, patient, careful, non-speculative news media to conduct criminal investigations based on leaked tidbits of information instead of an on-scene investigation.
You were in the room, where you? Finally we have someone on the inside to give us the real truth.
Guess what, the news media in Turkey is state owned so, the information that is coming from their media sources is and, can be directly linked to the Turkish government and, that is were our news media is getting their story's so, it would seem that our news media is getting it straight from the investigators. If you can prove differently please post a link.
Good! I hope this evidence can be authenticated and made part of a full and competent investigation. In the meantime, I'm not going to advocate radical action against a key ally based on media speculation.
Tell me, what do you think would be the most appropriate response from the US? Shall we take back all our weapons from Saudi Arabia? Shall we blockade the country? Should we assassinate the crown prince? Should we declare war? Maybe we should just nuke 'em, eh? What do you want us to do and what's the rush?
By the way, you know that people are unjustly imprisoned or killed in Saudi Arabia all the time, right? Why is this case a huge crisis, but others are not? If it's because he's a legal resident in the US, well we have residents and full on citizens imprisoned and tortured in all sorts of places. One, a pastor was just released by Turkey thanks to pressure from Trump. The Left didn't care that he was in there and doesn't seem too pumped that he has finally been released. But now you want to take Turkey at their word? Ask them what happened to 1 1/2 million Armenians and see what answer you get.
It has been by the Turkish government.
The "media speculation" that you are talking about is coming from the Turkish government since they own the media in Turkey and, the information is coming from that source.
How about we cut the fucking hyperbole now and, think for a minute like rational people. We can let Congress do what it is suppose to do in situations like this, impose sanctions and, cancel any arms deals with them.
Impose sanctions, sure. I have already suggested that. Why specifically does the arms deal need to go away?
So, the same government that still denies the Armenian holocaust. Great!
Do you think we should be selling weapons to a country that sponsors terrorists? The 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia.
Yet you all were cheering radical actions against the EU for trade wars. Our true allies, but Saudi Arabia, that the right has been complaining about for years, all the sudden gets every benefit of doubt.
Yes, because they just sent 100 billion dollars to the US. So we must turn a blind eye.
I never trusted them
Will nothing satisfy you or, are you so stuck on supporting Trump and, everything he stands for that you refuse to see the fucking truth when it hits right between the eyes? First you say that you want the government to investigate but, when that government investigation brings up an audio tape of Jamal being tortured inside the consulate you say it can't be true because of the media source and, when I tell you that the media source is owned by the government you say "Oh, the government that denies the Armenian holocaust?", damnit make up my mind and, tell me what source you would find acceptable. It sure as fuck isn't going to come from the Trump Administration they trying their best to help the Saudi's cover it up.
You mean a tariff to prompt negotiations? I don't know if I would call that "radical." For one, I don't think the economic impact compares to the pending arms deal. But also, it not a decision that was arrived at in a day. There was a lot of discussion and time that went by first.
It may turn out that killing or amending the arms deal is the best thing to do, but it seems a little early to have reached that conclusion.
I feel the same way, Trump and republicans treat our allies with disdain and disrespect, yet have this affinity for murderous dictators and autocrats, going out of his way to lie for them and protect them. Of course, I think he is protecting himself, nobody else, which is why TRUMP MUST RELEASE HIS TAX RETURNS.
In general, no. Although I don't know that Saudi leadership had anything to do with sponsoring 9/11. Not every criminal has his government's blessing. Contrast with Iran.
You speak of true allies. I'm no fan of Saudi government or society, but I have to acknowledge that we have had a critical military relationship with Saudi Arabia for years. Much of what we do in terms of exercising influence in the Middle East would be impossible without our bases in (and ability to fly over) Saudi Arabia. We have probably gotten as much use out of them in the last 30 years as anyone in Europe.
Of course he is,
There's nothing to support. He hasn't made a decision yet because he hasn't been given any conclusions to act on.
What I want is for our intelligence apparatus to investigate. They can work with whomever they need and and employ whatever resources they need. I don't trust the Saudi Arabian government any more than I trust the Turkish government.
I never said it can't be true. I said it should be authenticated and the context established. There is so much fake bullshit on the internet these days, why would you still be in the habit of blindly accepting anything you see or hear?
Not buying it.
So tariffs (economic sanctions) against our allies is ok, selling as many weapons to the middle east as possible is ok.
Is there any bridge to far that some of you will actually open up your eyes and see that the emperor has no clothes?
Trump did not invent tariffs on Europe. We already had tariffs in place. He simply added to them. And by the way, it had the effect he was hoping for.
Trump, EU agree to work on lowering tariffs, averting a potential trade war
We shall see I guess. So far though, your link is from July. Not anything has changed.
Soooo, as long as they let us fly over their country to get somewhere quicker to bomb someone and, they buy millions, no, billions of dollars in weapons from us and, buy things from Trump it's Aokay for them to kill people who live in our country. Got it.
Then you should read this,
I didn't source this only from the internet, I've been listening to the story's coming out of Turkey on this since Jamal disappeared, I haven't said anything about it because I wanted to get the whole story and, now that I believe I have enough on it, I'm presenting it here. How do you think I know he used his Apple watch sinct with his phone to record what happened to him? It was another news source that gave that to me, I learned of the Turkish government using their news agency's to get the story out the same way, another source, by the way both sources are not from the states, they are from other country's that have an interest in this story and, what is happening there.
Please cite where I said it was ok for them to kill people who live in our country or retract your um . . . falsehood.
I have said in multiple places that I think the incident should be investigated and responded to appropriately. It is not reasonable or fair of you to radically misrepresent would I have said.
You said this,
So, which of our European allies have killed someone who lives in this country?
And, then there is this statement by you,
Was that pastor chopped into little pieces inside the Turkish consulate? Why no, he wasn't, he was released, alive and, well. Another Red Herring.
This is a lie and, you know it.
Then quit defending Trump when he is being a Pussy, if this was Obama you would be on my side of the debate.
I've tried to be nice, but you lied about what I said and you won't admit it. I never said it was ok that anyone died.
This is some irony. For two plus years, we've been hearing the Left tearing its hair out because Trump has the nuclear codes and will most certainly start some foolish war at the drop of a hat. And then when he proceeds patiently in a crisis, you call him a pussy. A cat's litter box is not this full of shit.
I'm not saying Trump has to start a Nuclear war over this and, you know it. What I am saying is Trump needs to quit kissing every dictators ass.
It's evident what the plan is for Khashoggi, it was explained on FOX yesterday, smear him, call him a member of the "Muslim Brotherhood", after all he was a journalist and, not only was he a journalist, he was one for the Washington Post and, we all know that it's alright for Trump supporters and, Republicans to not only body slam them but, to smear them and, kill them, especially when they work for one of the news agencies that don't kiss Trumps ass every two seconds and, (gasp), they're not Americans.
So, it's Ok, to assault reporters according to Trump when those reporters are, "The wrong kind of reporters", you know, not citizens and, they don't work for Trump Propaganda News.
No, he actually said it was very sad and that the consequences would be severe.
Are you even aware that Turkish officials are still investigating the event? What makes you more informed about who should be punished (and precisely how) than the people who are still investigating it?
Maybe it would be better if he just bowed to them, eh?
That's called diplomacy Tacos. Something of which Rump and his supporters have no clue.
I didn't say it was wrong. I'm saying we should be consistent. I'm endorsing diplomacy. Are we going to rush to punish other countries or are we going to be thoughtful about it? GMR wants to punish Saudi Arabia before the investigation is even done.
LOL......you're funny. Good luck with that.
And yet, President Obama actually bowed to the Saudi King at the time.......much closer to being able to kiss his ass......
No offence, but it is really difficult to defend the indefensible.
Thus far, Trump's involvement in this murder has been short of a defense attorney for the Saudi Regime.
I suspect Trump involved himself in this matter because in some way, probably illegal financial matters, Trump is involved. My speculation.
Are you suggesting I am defending something?
Um... When I pilot accidentally dropped a bunch of supplies into ISIS territory, the right all but blamed Obama directly for it, (actually, many did say that Obama ordered it to give supplies to his, "Muslim Brothers"). So when blame is assigned to trump, you really shouldn't be shocked. The reason trump is getting the blame is because he supports the Saudi's....he just sold them 1.1 billion dollars worth of weapons. He sold a yacht to a known Saudi terrorist in 2001, and in 2010 he sold an entire floor of a tump hotel to the Saudi's. Trump has a LOT of ties to Saudi Arabia. THAT'S why trump is trying to spin this so Saudi Arabia doesn't get the blame. Yesterday, the trump admin said they will give Saudi Arabia a "few more days to investigate", which simply means, "give them a few more days to come up with a believable story that trump and the Saudi's can sell to the public".
It is BEYOND obvious that the Saudi's killed this guy, so why is trump making half steps and rushing to the middle? Makes no sense at all.
And now there is this...
Remember all those ties and visits by Kushner to the ME, (Trump even said that Kushner will bring peace to the ME).
Congressman: Kushner May Have Given Intel to Saudis Leading to Killing of Jamal Khashoggi
That's called a "custom". Bowing is a customary greeting in many parts of the world. Bush actually kissed the dude.
That's called a custom in that part of the world, it is CUSTOMARY for visiting dignitary's to bow to the king of the country, it's called "showing respect", in our country they would have shaken hands.
Ass kisser Lindsay Graham is showing more guts that Trump in this case, Trump has too many personal reasons not to hold the Saudi's responsible. I predict that no matter the findings, from an independent source, Trump will kiss the princes ass and, help him cover it up.
They were part of the crown princes security team and, the head of the forensics department for the Saudi government was the guy with the bone saw.
Well at this hour, the Saudis have admitted their people killed the guy and 18 of them have been arrested , including a couple of very high ranking officials.
Sure doesn't look like much of a cover-up.
Well, hell.
What will the left lie about NOW?
Every president supports the Saudis. In fact, all of Washington supports the Saudis. They have for decades.
What do you mean by that?
Then open your eyes and, read these,
This is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
None of these people would have done anything without the direct orders of the crown prince.
When was the last time you started a "fist fight" with 15 other people. I know that some on here watch things like professional wrestling and, believe it is real but, those "matchs" they have on TV aren't real, especially when they do shit like this.
How in the world would you know that? In the US, people do things every day without the permission of the president.
Understand something that I know may be difficult for you: I have no interest in defending the crown prince or anyone in Saudi Arabia. I'm just not a fan of taking drastic action against another country with no justification beyond speculation.
Oh yeah, I don't buy that characterization either. They were hunting this guy and I'm sure we don't yet have the full story.
Saudi Arabia isn't the U.S. and, they don't have a Parliament or, a Congress, the soul authority in the country right now is the crown prince, nothing happens without his say so, the men that led that little kill party in Turkey wouldn't have gotten on a plane and, flown to Turkey and, killed Khashoggi without direct orders from the crown prince and, anyone who thinks they would is either foolish or, doesn't understand how that kingdom works.
Well, at least you admit this, I guess that's something.
Of course not, but you assume an extraordinary level of control based on . . . what?
Explain why you know better than anyone here, the president, or the Secretary of State how the Saudi leadership functions and how specifically it functioned in this situation. Explain how it is that you are better informed than literally everyone else and we should therefore take action against another country based your say-so.
Wally, show me where I said that Trump must release his tax returns, what you posted was some I quoted, notice it is in quotes and, were in that comment did I mention Trumps tax returns?
As I have said multiple times, I am no fan of the Saudis and I don't trust them. That doesn't mean I endorse our president taking any action you want just because . . . anger, or politics, etc.
Ok, I have listened to people who worked for the CIA and, other intelligence agencies who have studied the Saudi's for decades and, they are the ones who say the country operates that way. Nothing happens there politically or, in this case, murderously through politics, unless the ruler says so and, right now that is the crown prince.
I could care less about politics or, anger right now, what I'm thinking of his the human factor, you know that thing that says we should care about our fellow man?
I do care about my fellow man. I haven't heard anyone say we shouldn't care about this person's death.
I'll tell you what I have seen, though. I have seen Saudi Arabia kill or mutilate lots of people over many years, but a lot of people on the Left didn't give a shit until a writer for a liberal newspaper was killed. Now, it's the biggest story on planet Earth and Trump is evil if he doesn't nuke the royal palace by dinnertime.
We likely will never have full justice and satisfaction in this case. We deal with many leaders around the world who commit atrocities and our options in response are necessarily limited unless you are prepared to go to war over all of them. If Saudi Arabia only arrests and punishes 18 of its own people, but the prince is not among them, we may have to live with that.
Sorry to bust your bubble here but, I've seen plenty of story's over the years about things going on in Saudi Arabia and, the government, our government, just sitting back letting it happen, I've outraged about it and, gotten shot down by folks on the right, just like now, for speaking out.
Can you show me where I suggested that or, where it is suggested in the story I posted?
Again, where did I suggest that?
Maybe, but, somehow I feel that because Trump is president they won't even do that.
"...it's Aokay for them to kill people who live in our country. Got it."
Saudi government may have killed Saudi citizen on Saudi territory. What does this have to do with us again?
He was a legal resident of the U.S. he worked for a U.S. company, he deserves more than a "so what" from the president and, his political party.
No he doesn't. He was a foreign citizen acting as a dissident against his own nation. If he had been killed in the US, it would be our concern. If he was a US citizen killed in a foreign nation, it would be our concern. We aren't the World Police.
So, either the King of S.A. didn't know of this operation or lied to President Trump. Surprisingly not surprising that you make this man's probable murder about President Trump. Because, well, no leader of any country has lied or been less than honest to any other leader of a another country before. I would say I'm surprised you would go there, but then, I'd be lying.
There is a third option, Trump and, the King of S.A. compared notes ahead of Trumps claim and, came up with the Rogue Actors claim together.
Why not? Trump sold one of his yachts to a Saudi prince for 2 million dollars and, that same prince later bailed him out of trouble with one of his property's and, bought the fifth floor of Trump Tower in Manhattan.
Sorry, this should read the 45th floor of Trump Tower.
Not just him.
We've been selling them weapons since 1951.
I wasn't talking about the Trump Administration, I was talking about Trumps PERSONAL business with the Saudi's.
Which is somehow more egregious than us selling them weapons?
Most of us do some level of business with the Saudi's. We buy gas. We have 401(k)s with mutual funds full of Exxon, Chevron, and other companies.
He sold a Saudi prince who has ties to Al-Qaida a yacht and, he sold the 45th floor of Trump Tower to the Saudi royal family.
When was the last time you did DIRECT business with the Saudi royal family? If you can give an honest answer to that, that says you did do business with them, then I won't mention this again.
"Obama’s First National Security Adviser Now Works for the Saudis"
I call "BULLSHIT" on all this Saudi Outrage. All of Congress and All Presidents for decades have placated them.
Now. Liberals are Bitching because Trump hasn't done anything quick enough ?
Like Trump told the reporter when asked if the FBI was sent to look into this:
Paraphrasing: "You don't know what we've fucking done" (which is true) !
Are you fucking kidding me ?
At least give the guy a day or two to get something done. He's already said "Sanctions" are on the table. DUH !
"Well Obama" what the fuck does Obama have to do with this? I'll give you a hint, fucking nothing, even the title tells a reader that Obama has nothing to do with this since it says plainly that the security advisor works for the Saudi's now, hint, Obama has been out of office for two years, he doesn't have anything to do with the White House NOW, the people who worked for him two years ago or, whenever, can find jobs were they want to since the Obama Administration doesn't exist any longer.
More "whataboutism".
No, they're "bitching" because, Trump is helping the Saudi's come up with excuses for murdering a reporter.
There have been security agencies around the world looking into this, including the Turkish security agency and, they have all said the same thing, the Saudi government murdered Khashoggi, spin it anyway you want but, them's the facts. Also, another fact, the FBI or, any U.S. agency can't just walk into a country and, start investigating, they need that country's government to give permission to do so and, Turkey hasn't done it yet so, we know from that, that Trump hasn't done a damn thing.
IT'S BEEN OVER TWO FUCKING WEEKS, WHAT THE FUCK IS HE WAITING ON?
Please supply a "LINK" showing definitively that Trump is Helping quash this Murder !
Who cares politically. While no one condones murder, This is a foreign national murdered in another country.
its none of our business
He is not a US citizen
He was a reporter for an AMERICAN newspaper and, a LEGAL RESIDENT in the U.S., that is two reasons to take an interest, the third one is, he was a FUCKING HUMAN BEING.
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Discuss the topic not members
Nonsense. He says no such thing. I condemn all murders including this guy. But it is none of the business of this country. Let the Saudis and Turkey deal with it as is their shared responsibility
So, then you think that the preacher who was freed through efforts of our state department shouldn't have been freed? Got it.
That Pastor is a US citizen and the US government had an obligation to seek his release
Get your facts straight
Khashoggi lived in the US for a few months in 2017 before moving to Turkey in September 2017
he was forming a Saudi opposition political party and had no plans to return to the US
Show me pastor, where in the Bible Jesus said, "Have compassion only for those of your own faith and, your own country, everyone else can go suck off."
I see in your link but, I don't see in there were he was planning on starting some kind of opposition party, I see where he spoke truth about the Saudi family. So, all I can gather is that because he didn't belong to your religion and, wasn't a good card carrying 'Murkin you don't like him and, think it's alright that he got killed. Very Christian.
Same question. "Which is somehow more egregious than selling them weapons?"
To my knowledge never. But I'm not a billionaire. I don't have a yacht they want to buy. You do realize that "he sold them a yacht" is utterly asinine as an example of some sort of incriminating connection. WTF? You're not even grasping at straws. You're grasping at slivers of straws.
Out of curiosity, do you also condemn Bernie Madoff's landlord for securities fraud?
It's not our responsibility.
A Saudi citizen was murdered or executed in the Saudi Consulate in Turkey, while traveling against a State Department travel warning advising against traveling to Turkey. The POTUS has sent the Secretary of State to threaten the Saudi prince over it.
I'm a US citizen, and I'm sure....as....fuck....that if I were killed in Turkey by a foreign government, the US Govt would not take the action they have for this man.
The Saudis have been flogging, beheading, stoning or crucifying people for 1000 years, including 300 in the 2015 - 16.
But none of that matters. Something bad happened, so it's Trump's fault.
What it does is, it raises questions about Trumps motives in this. Trump thinks with his wallet, not his brain, if it effects HIS bottom line then it's not good for HIM, he has said that the Saudi's have given him "millions of dollars" over the years and, he protects them with the same vigor that he protects Putin so, how much money are the Saudi's offering him to take their side in this?
Am I? Think about what Trump has said about the Saudi's, once again he has said that they've given him millions of dollars, just like the Russian's have done over the years, there is more here than meets the eye, Trump is getting something out of this and, it isn't an arms deal.
Really? Are you fucking serious here?
Sure looked like Pompeo was threatening the prince here,
I said no such thing. As usual you resort to straw man arguments
In 2018, Khashoggi established a new political party called Democracy for the Arab World Now , posing a political threat to Crown Prince Mohammed
his religious faith has nothing to do with it and I have already condemned his murder. More straw man arguments on your part
Bwahahahahahahaha, really? God's you have me rolling here. Your words.
Jesus's words,
So, when you deny this person the humanity of finding out the truth, you have done the same thing to Jesus. Keep that in mind.
And, yet, you continue to find a way to excuse his murder,
Another lie on your part. Stating the fact of His forming an opposition party in no way condones his murder.
Ive repeatedly stated I condemn not only his murder but the murder of ANYONE
my point continues to be that his murder is not the concern of America, but a problem to be resolved by Turkey and Saudi Arabia
You are seemingly incapable of honest dialogue when you continue to lie about my position
i posed the question and my view that people are murdered around the world every day yet suddenly and only because Trump is president, somehow this murder is unique
Your words have given evidence of your stance. Please move along now.
CNN reported that he threatened the prince.
From the video it doesn't look like he threatened anybody, what did he do threaten to sit on the prince? From what I've read recently the prince said that he would give the U.S. 100 million to go away.
"Oh my...an employee of 'The Washington Post' and a green-card resident of this country, and his murder is not an issue?"
Foreign citizen killed by his own government in his own country. How is this an American issue?
Ok, so, the next time some country takes a U.S. citizen that agrees with Trump or, is a right wing preacher hostage don't post about it because then you will be a hypocrite.
That was another stupid comment. Clearly American citizens are the concern of the American government. Try again, less disingenuously.
I'm pretty sure there were other conversations not captured on that video.
No it doesn't. Anybody who sees this as an issue already decided Trump is crooked.
Oh definitely. Which is bizarre, really, given the endless wealth of ammunition DT hands his haters on a daily basis.
Right. Sure. The Saudi's are really aliens from the planet Volgon and Trump is negotiating a ride when they leave to go back right after they destroy Earth.
I mean....if you're going to make shit up....may as well go big.
Why make shit up when Trump said so himself?
Let's see what mean to us....The key to stopping Iran and they are a strategic ally that provides oil to our allies. We can allow some sort of repercussions against them (possibly limiting Saudi travel to the US) but at the end of the day, we will still have a diplomatic relationship with them. American interests have to come first and penalties after we have all the answers.
Soooo, our allies can do anything they want as long as we get what we want from them, including murdering journalists so, since Turkey imprisoned a preacher that is all right too, they didn't need to release him because Turkey is an ally of ours so, kidnapping, murder, torture, wrongful imprisonment is just fine, right? Right? So, lets send that preacher back to Turkey so that they can put him back in prison there, "cause they're our allies.
You left out one of the biggest offenders of all - China. IMHO, American policy is based on American interests. We have important relationships with certain countries. I notice you mentioned Turkey. They are a big part of NATO (the second biggest military contributer), however they now have an oppressive dictator in charge. What do we do? Well we have placed heavy sanctions on Turkey. So heavy, that Turkey released the imprisoned preacher, whom you mentioned and has begun to improve their relationship with us. Eventually, Erdogan will be gone as will the Crown Prince in Saudi Arabia.
Question for you:
Why has the media made this story of the death of a "journalist" out to be the biggest story of the week? Saudi Arabia is involved in a brutal war in Yemen with barely a mention, yet this incident gets all this coverage.
This journalist was conned into going to a consulate in Turkey to get forms needed so that he could marry his fiancé by his government and, then MURDERED inside the consulate by Saudi government officials, cut up and, taken somewhere to be disposed of like garbage, his only crime was speaking the truth about his country and, its rulers. Trump has, during his campaign and, his presidency, not hidden his hatred of the press, he recently praised a man running for office for "body slamming" a reporter and, made jokes about it and, you and, other find nothing wrong with that. Where does this stop and, become something that concerns you, when a reporter dies at the hands of a Trump supporter? Well, no, I guess you would excuse that and, say it was the reporters fault since that is what has been said about the reporter who was "Body slammed".
Do you really believe that President Trump would condone the murder of a reporter?
Pat Robertson, that bastion of morality basically said money from arms sales trumps one man's death. If evangelicals are fine with it, I'm sure Trump is. He is actively trying to help Saudis manufacture an excuse.
I believe Robertson said “Look, these are key allies, I don’t think we need to pull sanctions and get tough,” - Am I correct? Hardly is that a case of Robertson being fine with the murder of a reporter. You do realize that women & children are dying in the war in Yemen, right? Where is the outrage on that? Where is the news coverage?
Let me ask you then, what should the penalty be for Saudi Arabia?
If he thought his base would let him get away with it, yes. He condoned the assault of a reporter and, his base cheered him.
I guess we have to agree that we disagree on that one
Video doesn't lie,
By the way, one reporter who was at a recent Trump rally says that a Trump supporter looked at him, made a body slam motion and, then pulled his thumb across his throat in a cutting motion. I believe we can call that a direct threat on a journalist.
The peaceful left
“Two Republican candidates in Minnesota were assaulted following a staffer for the Minnesota Democrat Party being suspended for allegedly calling for Republican beheadings.
The assaults are the latest in a wave of violent attacks against Republicans in the last several months.
Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) was sent a letter that purportedly contained the poison ricin and a Vermont candidate received a letter containing rape threats toward her and death threats toward Republicans in the state.
In Minnesota, Shane Mekeland, who is running for a seat in the Minnesota House of Representatives, said he was punched while eating at a restaurant in St. George Township.”
The alleged assaults came after the Democratic-Farmer-Labor party suspended a staffer for one week after the staffer posted an incendiary Facebook post.
In the post, the staffer, spokesman William Davis, said that on Nov. 7, election day, Democrats would “bring [Republicans] to the guillotine.”
I am already familiar with the tape (as a matter of fact the whole speech). The President leads into the incident saying that when he first heard about it he was in Rome and said to himself "Oh no, now Gianforte is going to lose", but the people of Montana thought differently (to paraphrase). I don't really see that as much of anything and absolutely nothing to equate with the recent assaults on Republican candidates.
By the way, one reporter who was at a recent Trump rally says that a Trump supporter looked at him, made a body slam motion and, then pulled his thumb across his throat in a cutting motion. I believe we can call that a direct threat on a journalist.
Humm.......and you give protesters the right to get into peoples faces? What of the severed head of the President? What about Oliver Wendell Holmes famous line about "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."?
It seems so blatantly one-sided
BTW, Can anyone answer my question in Post 1.5.5?
Foreigners including reporters are murdered every day in other countries. But suddenly and only because Trump is president, the left is not only outraged, it’s somehow Trump’s fault
just another example of the hypocrisy and lack of credibility of the left
So you want a drastic step taken. One that hurts our defense industry and a key ally which counters Iran and supplies oil to our European allies & Japan?
I say, we first wait for all the facts to come in (as Obama used to say). Then after and ONLY AFTER we know EXACTLY what happened (Our CIA can do it), and it is proven to the world that the Crown Prince ordered this murder, we then indefinitely suspend travel between the US and Saudi Arabia. That to me is the appropriate response.
That would be why the media is telling us that this is the most important story of the day!
It has nothing to do with our country. It’s none of our business and that is consistent with my small government ideology
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I don't know about that.
Suspending travel?...damn, Riyahd is lovely this time of year, that'll teach 'em.
I was looking from the other direction. An entire middle eastern state with a history of terrorist activity barred from entry into the US. There is something I like about that idea and this incident gives us the excuse for doing it!
How about the politically motivated Central American caravan on its way to the US border, due to arrive on the eve of the midterm elections?
How about the Harvard University discrimination trials?
How about the under reported story of the FBI raiding the government offices in Puerto Rico?
How about a story on any of the other 44 "journalists" killed this year?
Agreed
The pleasure was mine
The peaceful Right,
You really want me to go to the presidents tweets as well?
I made no statement that violence only happens on one side. Given the sinful nature of man, it’s a wonder it doesn’t happen more
It was implied.
I don't know at this point, sanctions likely involved for one. Better minds than mine can come up with punishment. But it must happen.
Of course I know women and children are dying, and not just in Yemen. Also in the countries in Central America where we reject them for asylum. And Africa where war and starvation are seemingly constants. And in this country where people are killed by guns and violence. And Robertson DID actually SAY that one death wasn't worth the loss of the arms sale money. Out loud. On tv.
News coverage won't be letting this death go, that I can tell you. Not yet. And they shouldn't.
Agreed and at the same time the strategic alliance with Saudi Arabia must be maintained. Let us wait 2 and a half more weeks and then it's decision time.
Yep and, while we wait the Saudi's come up with a better fairy tale for Trump to tell his supporters.
Let us face one fact. The Saudi's are fighting against Iran on many fronts. Isn't that better than having our own military involved?
Why? Why are they fighting Iran on "many fronts"? Why is it bad for the U.S. to get involved? Didn't Trump start that fight by getting out of the deal with Iran that the Obama Administration set up? Don't the Iranian's have any right to defend their borders against ISIS and, other terrorist groups and, other country's?
Because, as usual, there is a power struggle in the tinder box known as the middle east.
Why are they fighting Iran on "many fronts"?
Because Iran has proxies in Lebanon and Syria (Hamas & Hizballah), in Iraq, and threatening Saudia Arabia in Yemen. Iran is bent on developing nuclear weapons which will threaten the entire region.
Why is it bad for the U.S. to get involved?
You prefer American forces embroiled in the middle east to having the Saudi's do our bidding?
Didn't Trump start that fight by getting out of the deal with Iran that the Obama Administration set up?
No, Iran started it when they overthrew the Shah and have proclaimed themselves as an enemy of the US. They have been an enemy ever since
Don't the Iranian's have any right to defend their borders against ISIS and, other terrorist groups and, other country's?
Iran's actions are in no way defensive, they want hegemony and control over the entire middle east. Along with North Korea they are one of the worlds greatest threats to peace
Well, I guess using your "logic" below it isn't but, let's use a little different logic for a moment and, do another review.
As are American citizens of this country and, it's government.
So, those American citizens who are critical of our government go to an American consulate in a foreign country and, the CIA or, FBI murders them at the request of the president and, you would be alright with that and, would expect all other country's to be alright with it?
Because, when we open the door to a lack of morality in our government such as this then we open the door for such things happening on our own soil.
Yes, he was critical of the royal family but, he was friends with them as well, he didn't despise them, he despised what they were doing in Saudi Arabia and, wanted it to end, he wanted them to change. I'm critical of this administration and, the Republicans because I know that it is possible for them to do better, to reclaim that morality they had thirty, forty years ago.
Only if we want to reclaim our morality and, humanity.
Yup, that's a big part of it!
Sooooo, we should continue to do business with them because they are fighting a war that has been going on for century's? That makes no sense.
One, I'm 62 years old, two, I already have put my ass on the line for this country as has all the male members of my family, my nephew spent 6 tours in the ME during the Iraq and, Afghanistan war, don't fucking go there.
First, see my answer to your answer. As far as that deal was concerned, it kept Iran out of the nuclear arms business, when Trump pulled out he made it possible for them to get back into it.
Maybe you can explain to me then, why Iran was helping protect Iraq's borders against ISIS?
That's been going on for the past two thousand years, every since the Romans pulled out of there. Why should we be involved?
Maybe because the Syrian government has been killing their own people and, Iran came into Iraq at the request of Iraq to fight ISIS and, they are helping Yemen fight the Saudi's who INVADED Yemen?
Because Trump pulled out of the Iran Nuclear deal, remember that?
I don't prefer our troops being anywhere but, I especially don't want them fighting a war that has been going on for thousands of years simply because religious sects can't agree on what their god says.
And, we are the ones who put the Shah in power in the first place, they were right to throw him out of the country, we were wrong in supporting him, he made Saddam look like a nice guy. Of course the people in charge there now aren't much better.
Of course they aren't, why defend against ISIS when it is better to take the fight to them.
I think there are greater threats, we could, if we had to, turn that whole region into a sheet of glass with a few nukes.
Sanctions are a good start but, I also think we need to stop giving them weapons and, the parts to repair the ones we already sold to them.
I have a good friend who was in the military who worked in Saudi Arabia for a while a few years back on the planes we had already sold to the saudi's, He said not to worry too much about them using what we sell them against us because they don't really care to learn anything about the maintenance themselves and their pilots couldn't even fly our planes worth a shit. He said they would just follow the roads on the ground beneath them instead of learning to use the built in navigation systems for just a start.
Added to the fact IF we dont sell them this shit someone else surely will and we'll lose this edge as well then.
He also said the Saudi way of life sucked !!! Bad !
He was back here as soon as he could be and said he would never go back.
I doubt any country in western Europe will sell them weapons if we refuse to do it, however, the Russians would, simply because they want that deal, China would but, I don't know what their weapons are like, I keep thinking of some Chinese version of Russia's weapons.
"not to worry too much about them using what we sell them against us because they don't really care to learn anything"
If what my friend tells me is true it sounds like We might be better off right were we are.
I'll repeat what I said a few years ago on NV, I think we would be better off just nuking the whole ME till it turns to glass.
And I doubt you are alone, on either side.
ISIS would love the same for us. Luckily I dont think at this time they have that capability.
Or we'd probably all be practicing the duck and cover routine thingy again.
I know that sometimes spell check is your friend but, it seems lately that you've had a slight problem with knowing which words to use in a sentence, so, let me help you out.
The use of "are" is used in a sentence when you want to say something along the lines of, "Are you going to the dance?" the use of our is used when you want to say something like, "Our troops moved into the region yesterday." See the difference?
Now, to answer your comment,
I believe the deal you are talking about is no longer in existence as far as the U.S. is concerned, which means that, in Iran's mind set right now, they can start back building nuclear weapons if they so desire because, Trump pulled the U.S. out of the deal that would have kept them from building nuclear weapons. Thanks Trump for making the world more dangerous.
"So, those American citizens who are critical of our government go to an American consulate in a foreign country and, the CIA or, FBI murders them at the request of the president and, you would be alright with that and, would expect all other country's to be alright with it?"
This may be the stupidest comment I read in a long time. It's a blatantly disingenuous strawman. What bullshit...
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No. You implied something that simply is not there. Follow the money. Always follow the money. That is the who, where and why. Always.
Actually the Ottoman Empire seemed to have kept a tight lid on it
Iran came into Iraq at the request of Iraq to fight ISIS
Could you give me a link?
Because Trump pulled out of the Iran Nuclear deal, remember that?
You have the cart before the horse. Trump pulled out of it because they are developing nuclear weapons AND inciting unrest
we are the ones who put the Shah in power in the first place,
Correct and we are the one's who let him fall. Something Jimmy Carter thought was the right thing to do. I strongly differ
Of course they aren't, why defend against ISIS when it is better to take the fight to them.
ISIS was not a priority for Iran
I think there are greater threats, we could, if we had to, turn that whole region into a sheet of glass with a few nukes.
You mean do what Eisenhower would have done with North Korea? I don't think thats possible
Not as tight as you might think, yes, the Ottoman Empire did rule the region for some time but, it was too much territory for them to control, with the Nomads doing as they wished it eventually fell apart.
So, this story says that Iran was complying with the deal Obama set up but, Trump decided to pull out of the deal taking all the pressure off of Iran, now they can develop a nuclear program without any worries about anything.
So the Shah as I said was as bad as Saddam, I have believed that we should have kept him in power since he kept groups like ISIS in check.
Yes, it was, if you don't believe this read the link I provided in this comment as to why they joined forces with Iraq.
Maybe, but, from what I've heard Trump plans to pull out of any "SALT" style agreements with Russia.
Important points to be discussed - not as soon as I'd like
Uh...……………….wait. This story is not official and is subject to change to fit the tolerance and appetite of the Western Civilized World and the convenience of an American president.
This to. Comment 1.1 brought up ISIS---claiming they are laughable. Well...……...it is from the Saudi Madrassas in which the root, the core of the ISIS movements were given their life. So. Who is laughing now.?
Now, that is a comment unworthy of anyone here. Do you really think the S.A. Monarchy is going to do whatever President Trump says? Where in this picture do you see the U.S. involved in the investogation? Turkey is doing the investigating, S.A. is investigating. Your assumption is nothing more than that. An assumption.
The story continues to change. Wait for it.
that's like the fox guarding the hen house
No, that's backwards, Trump will do whatever the Saudi's say.
Exactly correct. The Saudi Regime has the Trump by the 'short hairs.' The Trump is 'broke arse.'
Saudi Officials To Admit Writer Died In Interrogation Gone Wrong, Sources Say.
Well, IMO that may not be completely accurate. To "admit he died in interrogation" assumes that he did indeed die in interogation. It also implies that the Saudis denied it, but eventaully "admitted" that's what happen.
However, since we really aren't sure what happened, its possible he did not die in interrogation. (I believe 15 saudis with a "bone saw" were seen entering the building...so the killing might not have happened during interrogation (which might imply that the death was accidental-- for example, the Saudis might want to imply that interrogators might have been rougher than they realized implying that the death was accidental-- although possibly it was really a targeted assassination, not accidental).
Of course we're still not sure exactly happened. So rather than say the Saudis "admitted" it might be more accurate to use the phrase "the Saudis claimed".
Or for an even more neutral way of saying it-- one might say "The Saudis said".
Because they did say that ( Interrogation Gone Wrong). Were they lying? I don't know.
I'm so confuuuussssed!
I never leave the house without my bone saw. Nothing suspicious there.
Or, my chainsaw,
yeah....they just "accidentally" sawed his head off
That's quite a fish story.
The Important version to watch.
"those involved will be held responsible."
All the "Filler" blah, blah, is just that.....News "Fillers" for sales !
Why do we give a fuck why a Turkish man was murdered by a bunch of Saudi men in Turkey? Is the U.S. now going to concern itself with every murder around the world?
It does help Cave Man if you bother to read the article before replying to it, first, he wasn't Turkish, he was a Saudi who lived in the U.S. and, worked for the Washington Post.
Yeah, but he wasn’t a WASP, so who cares? USA! USA!
Yep, that is what is truly sad here, the ones saying "who cares" are the ones think the first part of your comment.