‘God Is Surely Moving in This Nation’: Christian Musicians Worship Jesus at the White House
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Several worship leaders and Christian artists have posted footage of a spontaneous praise session that took place in the White House yesterday. The “Faith Briefing” meeting was designed to give an update on all the faith-based initiatives that have been introduced by the Trump administration.
In one clip posted by Christian singer Tauren Wells, a group of worship leaders can be seen belting out “What a Beautiful Name” by Hillsong Worship.
The lyrics take on particularly poignancy when you think of the historic location in which they are being sung:
“What a beautiful Name it is
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a beautiful Name it is
Nothing compares to this
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus”
Bethel Music’s director of events, Dominic Shahbon, also took to social media to express his delight at the occasion.
“Wow. What a day,” he wrote on Instagram. “Had the honor to go the White House for a #FaithBriefing with key administration officials and faith leaders. Specifically, to hear about faith initiatives that are happening. Great things are taking place whether the media tells us or not! Let’s just say that I’m leaving Washington, D.C. stirred, hopeful, convicted and informed with TRUTH.
“God is surely moving in this nation and through His Church,” Shahbon continued. “Let’s be a people that are not letting a day go by without praying for our President and this incredible administration. Thank you @paulamichellewhite for all you do and for helping making this happen. It’s truly powerful to watch and I’m moved beyond words.”
Leaders could also be seen praying together.
The gathering appeared to be organized by Pastor Paula White, a megachurch pastor from Florida and the chair of President Trump’s faith advisory board. White’s husband is former “Journey” keyboard player, Paul Cain, who was also in attendance.
It was certainly cool to see the name of Jesus lifted high in the most famous building in America!
What a privilege to declare the name of Jesus in worship and in prayer today at the White House. I was challenged, informed, convicted, & inspired at the # faithbriefing w/ many peers in the CCM industry. The church has a great opportunity to rise with grace & truth in this hour.
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“Wow. What a day,” he wrote on Instagram. “Had the honor to go the White House for a #FaithBriefing with key administration officials and faith leaders. Specifically, to hear about faith initiatives that are happening. Great things are taking place whether the media tells us or not! Let’s just say that I’m leaving Washington, D.C. stirred, hopeful, convicted and informed with TRUTH.”
They should be the time learning logic and science rather they deluding themselves with bronze-age mythology and crappy music.
“• Providing recommendations on programs and policies where faith-based and community organizations may partner and/or deliver more effective solutions to poverty;
• Apprising the Trump Administration of any failures of the executive branch to comply with religious liberty protections under law; and
• Reducing the burdens on the exercise of free religion.
The Initiative will be led by the newly created position of Advisor to the White House Faith and Opportunity Initiative and be supported by experts and various community and faith leaders from outside of the Federal Government, says the White House. All executive departments and federal agencies that do not already have Centers for Faith and Opportunity Initiatives will designate a liaison to the Initiative.” https://www.google.com/amp/blog.acton.org/archives/101474-president-trump-creates-a-new-white-house-faith-based-initiative.html/amp
What part of the strict separation of church and state confuses you?
Some dude named Tommy Jefferson wrote this,
The actions of the government are to be kept absolutely secular at all levels for the protection of the secular and religious rights of all people. I will not be forced to live my life by your religious fantasies and I damn sure will not pay for them to be forced on myself or anyone else.
This is all very obvious to rational people. I feel like a fool for having to post it, again and again.
Why would anyone be proud of being a member of an group whose goal it is to convince a group of people to ignore reality and believe in what has no evidence of existng? 3+3 doesn't equal 26 just because you believe that it does.
Good, because none of that is happening.
It is under the banner of "faith-based iniatives".
I suppose reality is too difficult for some to deal with. So religion offers emotional comfort and/or fantasty to help one escape from reality. Kind of like when people play immersive world or online games to escape the real world, even to the point of getting "lost" in the game world.
Do tell then. How are you being forced to live by someone else's religion? Tell us about your trip to church last week where you were forced to pray. Exactly how much of your money has gone to forcing someone else to conform to a certain religion. How many people are we talking about? What are their names?
Is that why you live in this paranoid delusion where you think people are forcing you to be Christian?
When have I ever said anyone was forcing me to be christian? Or are you just spewing random nonsense?
Do you think public schools should be forced to display "In God We Trust" posters?
Oh, so when epistte wrote,
and you gave it a thumbs-up that was an accident? Are you now saying you disagree with that statement?
It seems your issue is with epistte, not me.
Should they? No, I don't see why they should be forced to, but I acknowledge that government could force them to. It's an official government motto, after all. Frankly, I see a lot of things on the walls of public schools I don't necessarily agree with. None of them force me to live life differently than I would choose to.
So I ask you a question relevant to your concern: Does that sign force a person who sees it to trust in God?
I have problems with that particular "motto". It doesn't promote a secular government.
Children are impressionable. Religion is something that must be left up to their parents, not their school or their government
The national motto isn’t a religion. Nor is there any any religion that it promotes.
It is a state-sponsored promotion of a belief in god, which is very obviously religious. Its also illogical because why should people believe in what does not exist?
There are laws based on religious belief (blue laws) and as such they are a state-sponsored promotion of religion. All religious belief must be absolutely separate from the actions of the government, so that all people have equal religious and secular rights.
And you know for a fact that God doesn’t exist? How did you discover this info? What is your evidence?
That isn't how logic works. Believers are making a positive claim of god existing but there is no proof to support that claim of god existing. In the absence of any empirical proof of God we automatically revert to the previous stance that your claim of God is unproven. Religious belief is the absence of empirical evidence. The Bible is the word of man so it also isn't proof of god.
How many times does this need to be explained to you?
Where is your evidence for a god, other than mere belief? The follow up question is, do you understand what constitutes actual evidence?
Are you suggesting the motto: "In god we trust" is not referencing the monotheistic Abrahamistic god? Or that "god" is not the basis of some religions?
i know for a fact God doesn't exist as much as i know for a fact that Unicorns, Leprechauns, Odin, Zeus, Wood Nymphs and Pegasus don't exist. Now, can you provide evidence for any of these entities existing ? They all have stories written about them in books, they all have/had worshippers - so let's see your proof that any of these entities exist. Thanks
Apparently, in the eyes of XXX-does-MBFC, Thomas Jefferson's mention of a naturalist creator as the giver of rights is proof of the Abrahamic god, but the blatant mention of god in the supposed motto is claimed to be non-denominational.
I'll buy that claim, just after a buy a suspension bridge in Death Valley
I think their faith, education, how they spend their time , or what music they listen to really isn't any of your business.
It most definitely becomes a public issue when it happens while they are working as elected representatives and is paid for by taxpayer dollars. Go to church on your own time and off the public time clock. When they are at work their duties are to be absolutely secular. You'd be offended if they were praying to Mecca, Thor or Krishna on the Senate floor but you have no problem when they are praying to your god and promising to legislate your beliefs as public policy.
No it really doesn't.
I can't imagine why I would be offended. This is your hangup, not mine.
You make great points. Some it seems expect Christians to be unique in having to check our free speech and free exercise rights at the door if we are part of or are participating in an event of government.
Exactly!
Maybe we atheists should start legislating our non-beliefs in government and public schools, instead of just being secular? We can start by erecting 2 meter tall bronze Humanist icons in public square and teaching the Humanist motto in public schools via recitation. After they repeat the Humanist idea they will bow to Mecca and recite the Shaddah, just for religious equality
After lunch, the students will read the Bhagavadgita and the I-Ching.
I think we should just start with blue laws....like alcohol sales on Sunday
Abortion is between a woman and her Dr. LGBT people have absolutely equal rights to us heteros in all areas. Then we start taxing church income.
We have a lot of places to start
Sure thing but we won't stop there. We can tax other tax exempt entities like museums, art galleries, private schools and universities ..... credit unions and tax exempt public groups like the United Way ...... YMCA's , labor unions and tax exempt fraternal groups like the Shriners ...... etc, etc
Man think of all that new tax money we'll be collecting ...... we'll be cutting a fat hog in the ass!
You can't compare multi-millionaire televangelists and worldwide religious orgs' such as the Vatican to any of those other groups.
It is when, what they spend their time on, effects me.
Isn’t it interesting how that the only non profit tax exempt organizations the secular progressives want to tax are the ones reflecting our beliefs?
Sure i can and just did. Because it's absolutely a reasonable comparison. One needs to be unbiased about such things to see that.
Having a huge chip on one shoulders towards any component of such a discussion automatically disqualifies one from having a truly unbiased viewpoint on such matters
Not really. Its not an "us" vs "them" sort of thing like it appears to be for some here.
Its about not governing in a politically selective manner. Going after one tax exempt group and not others does reek of partisan hypocrisy in that regard.
Big time!
We always knew atheism is a religion and content control of those who believe other than they do is their chief operating function.
Government Blue laws have no legitimate place or purpose as they favor some beliefs over other beliefs. There would have to be Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Blue laws to treat the three Abrahamic religions equally.
Just like you always knew not collecting stamps was my favorite hobby and bald is my favorite hair style.
And an interesting fact, there are as many hobby stores catering to not-collecting stamps as there are atheist Churches.
Ah, from a war on Christmas to a war on all religion.
Didn't I basically say get rid of all blue laws?
Oh, please, come down from that cross...we need the wood!
Government coordinating how it more efficiently dispenses aid during and after a disaster or more efficiently helps the poor and the homeless by involving charities that are run by faith based organizations affects you?
Without a doubt. You have been right on in absolutely every word you have posted to this topic. As usual, well said.
Odd, I was about to type that very reply to you.
I never had a hero who was nailed to a cross.......
I'm sure, much like his favorite President, HA believes Jesus is only a hero because he was captured, he prefers heroes who weren't captured and killed.
yet.. many states have those Blue Laws ... isn't that interesting ?
but we know it's ok because.... well... God , right ?
Actually, for the record, as a believer in a degree of separation of church and state, I oppose all blue laws.
i agree with you on this particular comment
Taxpayer money should not be given to faith-based orgs because their support isn't always equal among all people. They tend to benefit demographics of their own religion and that isn't equal. Faith-based groups should disperse money and aid raised by their religious believers.
How much rat poop should be allowed in ground beef? What degree of separation between the latrine and drinking fountain is a "good degree" of separation? Like, barely touching? One sort of spooning the other? While I applaud you for opposing all blue laws, I question your need for the word "degree" in that statement. Secular government and laws governing all Americans should be completely free from any religious influence. I want zero degrees of rat poop in my burgers, thank you very much.
What exactly is a "degree?" Separation of church and state should be absolute! And I oppose blue laws too.
Their church can play in secular law but the state cannot regulate any religion or prohibit them from trampling the rights of others. "A degree of separation" a conservative euphemism for a theocracy of their religion. All other religions and non-believers have the religious freedom to worship as conservative Christians choose.
I actually had someone tell me that once, to the effect that Christians allow other religions and beliefs here.
It is a common belief among a few of the religious crazies. They seem to think that one of their religious rights is to decide what the religious and secular rights of others are.
Antonin Scalia didn't believe that there was a separation of church and state. His interpretation of the Establishment Clause should have been sufficient to deny him a seat on the federal bench.
Or they think their religion deserves special status or privileges.
Indeed. Not one of our better SCOTUS Justices.
This is exactly why we have the strict separation of church and state, so as to keep all religions equal in the eyes of the law, despite their political/social power or the number of members in the population.
Scalia wasn't even a good Catholic because he died at a Texas resort on a Friday during Lent when Catholics are taught to live simply and eat subsistence meals without meat. He was a hypocrite till the very end. The fact that the resort weekend was paid for by an unknown someone suggest that he was bribed for a SCOTUS decision.
I know not all Catholics adhere to that. It might be a Catholic denomination thing.
Hmm, curiouser and curiouser.
Lent is required among all Catholics over the age of 14 and unless you have a medical/dietary problem it is a lifetime practice. It is a common game to get a special dispensation on St Patrick's day and opening day of baseball to eat meat but I've never heard of any Catholics that get a pass on Lent otherwise. There are many old-school Latin Catholics like Scalia who still went meatless on every Friday, even outside of Lent.
It is impossible not to pit different religions against each other because of Scalia's reading of the Establishment Clause. The fact that he puts believers over non-believers means that some religions enjoy more rights. Not all Christian religions agree, so his ruling on LGBT marriage denied some Christian sects their belief on LGBT equality. Scalia claimed to be an originalist but he commonly threw that idea out of the door when it suited him.
Well I must say IF trump injects much religion into our government I will have underestimated him.
If he does he's more dangerous to our long term good than I thought.
He simply restored it to what it was under Bush 43 and undid all the anti religious liberty measures Obama took.
I didn't know our government had religious liberty. I always though it was supposed to be seperate.
Dubya's "Faith-based initiatives" were unconstitutional because they violated the separation of church and state. The government cannot be permitted to use taxpayer dollars to support and enact legislation that endorsed any sort of religious belief. The fact that you cannot use your religiosity as a cudgel to trample the religious and secular rights of others is not in any way a violation of your religious liberty
Well, they seem to be going strong in spite of the High Court of Epistte pronouncing them unconstitutional. In fact, they were even expanded under Obama. You must really hate him. They were also upheld by the Supreme Court (inferior to your court of course) last year in the Trinity Lutheran case. That was a 7-2 decision, by the way.
It would seem that Bush 43 did not violate the constitution. There is no Supreme Court ruling saying he did. It seems that some would rather see the poor unaided and still hungry if they got aid because government used a faith based charity to provide the aid more efficiently at a lower cost per person helped. [deleted]
Secular progressives will not be happy til all evidence of religion existing in America is erased from the public square.
[deleted]
I'm not religious and not atheist, but if you want my opinion, religion would be less offensive if it was kept it to personal lives and not try to force those beliefs on others. That would include women's healthcare and other public/governmental matters. I want to erase their sanctimonious arrogance in assuming they are 'the truth'. None of us can prove anything so everyone live their values, let others live theirs, and one day we die and find out who was right.
It's not just me who sees the separation of church and state issue in Dubya's religious idiocy,
It belongs on private property, so I agree that it must be erased from the public square. Religion is also illogical.
It is supposed to protect the religious liberty 🗽 and free exercise there of of all Religious belief of our citizens. The free exercise clause is every bit as important as the establishment clause is.
Your religious liberty does not include having the government enforce your religious beliefs with religious-based legislation paid for by taxpayer dollars. The actions of the government is to be absolutely secular for the protection of the religious and secular rights of all people. It is both unconstitutional and illogial for all religious groups to have their religious beliefs supported by the government just as you want to do with faith-based initiatives.
I agree anyone should be able to believe and participate in any religion they chose. I just never felt that was threatened in America. I do see some religions and religious people it seems constantly pushing for more than that. I like it as it is. Practice what ever religion ya want just keep ALL religions out of our common government.
I'd like to know how the religious beliefs of the Xtian majority are being threatened by enforcing the strict separation of church and state? Our religious liberty is only the right to believe in god and the right to worship. Neither of those are threatened in any way by keeping the government absolutely secular at all levels. The free exercise clause does not in any way mean that you can trample the religious and secular rights of others with yourown religious beliefs because that would be illogical. If he can do it to others, because all rights must be absolutely equal, then they can do it to him when they exercise their full religious liberty.
I need to schedule time to teach evolutionary biology, history, political philosophy, and first order logic at the Baptist church, if my religious rights are now being infringed by not doing so.
Sounds like a paranoid delusion.
The belief of citizens, not organizations or governments. It also means that it protects the beliefs of ALL citizens EQUALLY. Meaning one person's belief cannot be allowed to affect anyone else, without their permission. many so called Christians seem to feel their beliefs are being attacked if they are not given special protections. Anyone hear of the so-called "war on Christmas"?
I'm planning to carry out Operation Neptune Spear on mall Santas in a few weeks but don't tell anyone.
s/.
There will be no war on Christmas this year. We know that Jesus is the reason for the season.
When was there ever a "war" on X-mas?
You do realize other religious (and non-religious) celebrations occur around X-mas, right?
There was never a war on Xmas except in the mind of Bill O'Reilly.
Axial tilt is the reason for the season because not even the Bible says that Jesus was born in December.
Oh, for shit's shake. Retailers have been pushing Christmas earlier and earlier every year, and that didn't start under Trump. There's been no war on Christmas, but there sure has been one on Thanksgiving, with Christmas shopping starting before the damn turkey has even been put in the fridge.
Pretty soon "war on Christmas" folks will be waging war on the Fourth of July.
Lowes had Xmas stuff on the floor before Halloween. I was ticked.
The fake war on Xmas is just to push the persecution fantasy that most Christian need to feel alive.
There is a war on Halloween, tho
Sure, there's no war on Christmas and yet two of you can't even bring yourselves to type the word properly.
Xmas? Hilarious!
How is there a war in Xmas? Who has ever been arrested for saying Merry Xmas or not been able to celebrate Christmas in their home or their church? Do you need to feel persecuted to be alive?
See there you go ..... you spelled it out once. Maybe there is still hope for you .....
Never said i was. You?
I don't celebrate fake holidays. I'll celebrate my birthday and them my BF and I will do something by ourselves on the 25th.
Someone here a lot smarter than me can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but X is the Greek word for Christ. So writing "Xmas" is not irreverent or blasphemous
If you think that there is a war on Xmas then you must feel persecuted.
Glad you agree.
You do know "X-mas" is the shorthand way of writing it, right?
Well, two smart people basically said the same thing I did, so I don't think we'll see Sparty again in this thread
Fake to you, real to others. Once you get a grip on that, drop the chip on your shoulder about it, you will likely be much happier.
Either way, no skin off my nose.
You're preaching to the wrong person. I could care less if people call it Xmas. The reverse it not true for many others though. Look no further than NT for proof of that.
Many people are who "purposely" call it Xmas and not "Christmas" are most definitely at war with the beliefs and traditions of Christmas. No matter how hard some folks try to passively and/or aggressively rationalize otherwise.
There is no proof that Jesus ever actually existed. I am a logical person so celebrating myths as fact is annoying. Just admit that X-mas is really the pagan festival of Saturnalia or Yule and everything is fine.
Then what are you getting all bent out of shape about? Let's not pretend this about "other" people at NT, because I doubt very much you really care what others think or about their feelings
Your words, Sparty. I'm pretty sure folks around here don't think you're just shrugging it off
Don't quit your day job ....
You of all people should not try to put words in other peoples mouths ..... since you dislike it so much when others do it to you.
I meant what i said and i'm very sure i didn't stutter it ......
I only repeated the words you typed on the screen. Now don't you feel kind of silly saying I put words in your mouth?
I'm not taking this any further with folks lacking in faith. No point to it. I'm not going to convince you of anything nor will you change my mind.
Suffice it to say i'm not the one with the problem here. Believe what you want since like i said earlier .... no skin off my nose.
Yeah....the last desperate words of a man who knows he lost the argument
[deleted]
Off-base as usual there TG.
[deleted]
lol not in the least because I'm not the one playing word games
You responded, didn't you?
Have a Happy Thanksgiving
So what?
Thx, I usually mange to and a very Merry Christmas as well ....
Happy Holy Days!
You were arguing?
You gave Sparty a thumbs up after he got his comment deleted.
And you wonder why I don't take you seriously.....
I’m opposed to stores being open on Thanksgiving Day. We should not crowd out the day we thank God for all the blessings we have as a nation and individually.
When we celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ here on earth for his 1st coming is not important. That we do celebrate it and remember why we do is.
Why YOU do it.....not all of us give a shit. We're just there for the ham and the alcohol
I'm there for the turkey and whichever dessert contains chocolate.
ACLU? lol! We hold them in the same lack of esteem and sheer and utter contempt that we hold for the SPLC and MBFC. We rely on Judicial Watch, Alliance Defending Freedom, Liberty Council, and the ACLJ to protect and preserve our freedoms and liberty 🗽.
a great example of the persecution complex and constantly in the mindset of a "war" with everyone who thinks/acts/believes/types differently. Many people i know, including a LOT of Christians, write Xmas because it's shorter and easier to write than Christmas (and that includes their writing the word in their Xmas cards [or Christmas cards, wouldn't want you exploding because i didn't write the word Christmas] and on their church flyers for events around the Christmas holiday)
Not really ..... not in the least actually. But, since from what you're saying above, there clearly isn't a problem .... no one will have a problem putting the Christ back in Christmas.
Good to know ....
Well said. The fear and selective outrage among some over the use of faith based charity by government, the free exercise of free speech by people visiting government regarding that issue of this seed and the true reason for this season is interesting to watch. The Trump Administration actions on any number of issues gets far less attention than this one issue regarding the seeded article.
That's a mater of opinion and preference. I certainly don't waste time or energy thanking any non-existent god for anything. But you go right ahead.
See previous statement.
is that supposed to mean anything to me?
Try providing actual evidence and we'll see.
When was it ever taken out?
Most likely fake in reality too. but even children think their imaginary friends are real.
Odd that you felt the need to call me out for using the term 'x-mas."
That's quite the erroneous presumption, with a hint of a silly persecution complex. BTW, many "traditions" of x-mas are not based on Christianity.
He is offended by abbreviations and wants to declare war over their use.
1.) Having your religious beliefs subsidized by taxpayer dollars is not one of your religious rights. Your free exercise religious rights are only the right not to be fined and arrested for believing in a god(s) and worshipping as you choose. Involving others in your religious beliefs against their will is not one of your religious rights because that would trample their equal religious rights.
2.) You do not have the right not to have your religious beliefs critized because if that would happen then those who might criticize you are having their free speech rights trampled on by being prohibited from doing so. Your free speech rights are only that you aren't fined and/or arrested by the government for your speech and that hasn't happened to religious people saying Merry Xmas to random people.
Christ never was in the December 25th holiday because that is a Roman or Pagan festival of the winter equinox.
Absolute agreement.
The same goes for Easter, which is the pagan festival of spring fertility. Rabbits and eggs aren't there by accident.
I can see him now, standing before a long mirror doing his best De Niro impression, "You talkin to me? You talking to me? You telling me Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas? You abbreviating my Christ's special holiday with your little X's? Huh? You want to go to war with me? Huh?...".
SNL needs to do that skit as soon as some religious loon cries about the fake War on Christmas.
IIRC Sparty is a veteran, so I wonder if he is equally offended at the DoD addiction for abbreviations and acronyms?
Is that what I said? Nope, your words not mine. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.
You have a problem with accepted abbreviations. Such as Xmas instead of Christmas.
Next Atheist up? Tag in now .... time to pile on those who are NYK.
Weak!
Bullshit .... show me where I said that. By specific please.
"Sure, there's no war on Christmas and yet two of you can't even bring yourselves to type the word properly. Xmas? Hilarious!" - 3.1.23
"See there you go ..... you spelled it out once. Maybe there is still hope for you .." - 3.1.25
What is NYK?
Do you remember saying this in 3.1.32, or am I putting words in your mouth again?
Okay, let help you along with this. Context being folks who refuse to EVER use the word “Christmas” and ONLY use words like Xmas or something other than “Christmas”. I know there is people responding here on this thread that are like that
Regardless, I could care less if you call it FlyingSpaghettiMonsterMas but don’t try to BS me that some aren’t at war with “Christmas”. Again, look no further than NT for proof of that.
So no, I have no problem with “abbreviations” like Xmas. I regularly use “Xmas” but not specifically and only like the folks “at war” with the concept of Christmas. Get it now?
A simple “I apologize” will do ..... thx
A variation of NOK. Not Your Kind.
Can you translate this to English because I am having flashbacks of discussions with Eagle Avarro?
Moving goalposts.
I commonly say Merry Christmas to people and I sent Christmas card to some people. I send more secular holiday cards to others, and there are a few that I send sarcastic cards such as "Maury Christimas" to.
The only war on Christmas is a religious delusion by Bill O'Reilly.
The only supposed X-Mas war would be cured with mass doses of Seraquel.
why would that need to be done ? we have X-mas... does that offend you in some way ? it seems to get under your skin that X-mas is the common shorthand and used a lot by many religious and non religious people - or you wouldn't suggest putting the Christ back in Christmas since it never left. Good to know ....
Who is at war with X-mas exactly?
See previous statement!
"Your kind?" Whom exactly is "your kind?"
Id like for Sparty' to explain who and what concept of Christmas people are at war with. 95% of Christmas is retail gluttony.
Has anyone ever been threatened, assaulted, fined, or arrested for celebrating X-Mas as they choose to do?
In the US? Not since the Puritans.
Oh, and that guy in Ohio who had a zombie nativity.
In then US you are an social outcast if you choose not to take part in Christmas, even at just the retail and workplace level.
I forgot about him. Free speech!
I can see why the flash backs. Eagle 🦅 is generally speaking right on most of the time.
The meaning is clear as day .....
nope, they’re still in the same place they’ve always been. In the field of reality.
Yeah, considering the source, I didn’t really expect one.
Bullshit, no one is making you do anything.
Talk about your basic victims mentality.
Please. You complain about people using the abbreviation "xmas". When it's pointed out to you that "xmas" has been used for centuries by Christians, then it becomes 'oh, well, just the ones who always use "xmas" are the problems". Moving goalposts, because you couldn't carry your point. Anyone reading the thread can see it. Stop trying to pin your mistakes on others.
Lol, pinning my mistakes on others? I would have needed to make a mistake in the first place .... which I didn’t, regardless of your weak characterizations of such.
The fact is, people who will not say “Christmas” for the reasons i’ve Illuminated here very clearly, are being petty little bitches. People who have no trouble using either? Not so much!
It is not in any way that people won't say Christmas. It's about saving a few key strokes. I used to use w/ instead of with but many people complained so I now type it out. Nobody is persecuting you or disrespecting your religious beliefs because they abbreviate Christmas as X-mas when we write it. We aren't afraid of Christmas.
You telling me you don’t anyone with that attitude? That is, people who refuse to use “Christmas?”
Well now, that’s awfully big of you.
You keep coming back to that even those i’ve proven to its not true. I never said I feel persecuted by it, quite the opposite actually. You have no interest in listening to anyone who you consider is not of like mind That much is very clear
Never said you were ....
You still don't get it, despite it having been explained to you by multiple people. Nobody is refusing to say Christmas. They are using an abbreviation of Christmas to save ink or a few keystrokes. You are taking their lessened effort as a religious slight where there was none.
The whole intent of some is to slight religion and it’s adherents in every way they possibly can.
Your persecution complex is out of control because nobody is trying to slight you or anyone else by typing X-mas instead of Christmas . Webster's dictionary states that it is an accepted abbreviation and doesn't mention any intended insult by the use of such.
You think that injecting logic into a discussion of religion is an insult and would prefer that your threads are limited to being conservative echo chambers.
Yeah and I call bullshit on that. Again!
Based on the breadth of of your posting here I highly doubt you have not run into someone with that position. Actually probably many people.
Heck, no matter what they say here, I know their are people responding here on this thread that have that attitude. That much is very clear from their body of work here on NT.
Nah, I get it just fine. It’s you that’s deluding yourself if you claim it doesn’t exist.
I have never heard of such a preposterous idea and I have certainly never run into anyone who refuses to say the word Christmas. I have never read about anyone who refuses to say the word Christmas as a form of atheist rebellion You are the very first.
It doesn't exist. It really doesn't.
It does exist, it really does. As evidenced by the many times i’ve witnessed and/or experienced it directly.
I find it extremely hard to believe that you’ve never experienced it but it’s clear at this point if you have, you’ll never admit it.
I’m out, have a great day.
an oldie but goodie, lol
Unless you can post the reply in issue with some proof that the person in question used Xmas as a religious slight you have nothing to support your ridiculous claim.
I have never heard of such a bizarre idea, either here or on Facebook. Your idea defies both logic and reality. If people wanted to insult religion they would do so but they wouldn't be so passive-agressive to simply use Xmas in place of Christmas. I still believe that you are seeing a slight that never was meant as anything but an abbreviation.
Have fun.
I've addressed some e-cards that will be sent on the 23rd. I'll buy paper cards for my few relatives that get upset at e-cards and those who aren't computer literate. I also need to remember to buy Hanukkah cards for 2 friends of the Jewish faith.
I need to buy a wreath, but I haven't decided if we will go to the trouble of putting up a few strings of lights around the door. Its not that I want to celebrate the holiday that I obviously don't believe in, but I do like the way they look on the dark nights. I don't plan to put up a tree since my daughter and son-in-law aren't coming home, because if I do my cat is convinced that I spent 3 hours assembling a 6' toy for his amusement.
I was once married to cat lady, and all of the cats thought that a xmas tree was just a gift that kept giving until every ornament was broken.
And the dog liked to eat tinsel - not a pretty site.
The last time I put up a tree (2014) I was still finding little ornaments under the furniture all over the house in March and April.
I had a cat who liked tinsel. You're right - not pretty.
My cat and dog now pretty much leave the tree alone. The cat sleeps under it, but rarely bothers the ornaments. He might knock off one now and again, just to remind me he's a cat.
I laughed when they astutely knocked an ornament off with their tail and lock back over their shoulder in admiration of their own work.
or
when they accidentally knock one off and have a fright attack,
!
When I first got my cat, I had both him and his brother, and the two of them together were holy terrors. I lost a lot of ornaments that year.
Great post. Come back any time.
I just did ..... for at least the second time.
Are you calling me a liar?
[deleted]
Since when?
[deleted]
The idea that you take have chosen to take offense at the use of Xmas abbreviation does not in any way mean that offense was intended by the user. You have no proof that anyone has intended to insult Christians by the use of Xmas abbreviation.
I assume that this was a personal attack that was deleted.
As I said, most of the time.
Is this also a belief of yours because you agree with what he says?
Another fail.
You keep trying to put words in my mouth that have clearly been refuted here ..... numerous times. For a person who regularly claims to operate only on fact and information available it appears you actually operate more on bias and emotion than fact. Whatever is convenient for the narrative you're pushing. Sad.
The proof was given and you didn't accept it. That's your problem not mine.
Disrespect noted ....
There has been no proof put forth by you. The fact that you are insulted by the use of Xmas doesn't in any way mean that it was intended as an insult. Nobody is taking Jesus out of Chritimas by using Xmas abbrevaition. I researched your claim and the only place on the internet that I can find people agreeing with you is on conservative Christian websites who are also upset also when anyone says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. The world doesn't revolve around their religious beliefs.
Sure there was. You've just blatantly ignored/denied it. Which is tantamount to calling my noted experience lies. Completely unacceptable but nothing new here considering.
Where is the proof? Posts 73, 91,95,97,107,114.
Does the fact that someone says Happy Holidays also mean that they are trying to take Jesus out of Christmas? Is the use of "Happy Holidays" offensive to you? I have never heard anyone verbally wish me "Merry Xmas" but I guess that it might be possible to say.
I have also never heard of Flying Spaghetti MonsterMas, but it might have possibilities, now that you bring it up.
Hot damn! That could be the best holiday feast of the year!
Is this your so-called proof?
I'm going to spend a few hours tonight doing research and planning. This could be big enough that Martha Stewart has a special episode about how to decorate and what we should be cooking for FSM-Mas. Retail could use a new holiday for a retail binge.
Bed. Bath and Beyond or Sur LaTable could sell holiday colanders with matching sweaters...
Spaghetti and meatballs for everyone!
I bet Bed Bath and Beyond has a great deal on red and white checked table cloths! And candles in chianti bottles
I wonder if people realize that holiday is really an amalgamation (right word?) for Holy Day?
I can't wait for conservative Christians to tell Jews, Zoroastrians, Muslims, and Buddhists, among many others that they are disrespecting their holiday by celebrating another religious holiday close to Christmas, especially when there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus was born in December. Most of those other religions predate Christianity,
We could do the Feast of the 7 Meatballs or the Feast of the 7 Pasta Shapes as a Pastafarian alternative to the traditional Christmas Eve meal of Feast of the 7 Fishes. This could be huge!
You're allegedly a smart girl, you can find it.
I know you can .....
I hope that some understand that the words "holy" and "sacred" are not limited to just the Christian faith
Let’s not get carried away!
Everyone else is a heretic in their minds.
Why don't you point it out for all to see?
That's the nicest thing he's ever said to me
Because i've already wasted enough time on the intentionally intellectually lazy and disingenuous in this seed.
Not true and you know it.
Your belief that people use Xmas as a way to supposedly remove Jesus from Christmas is not founded on fact. Xmas is merely an abbreviation with no attempt to insult anyone.
Is the use of Xmas also part of the War on Christmas?
this is one of the many ways that the religious can claim "persecution" and keep up their mentality of "religious vs non religious" and indulge in their imaginary wars, they can feel like they are fighting for the "right" thing and against those "evil" non religious people. If they realize that little things like these in no way indicate any kind of "war" then they lose purpose with their war mentality, remember religion is all based upon emotions and belief (it's all about their feelings) - not facts, so why should their imaginary wars be any different ?
Well said and right on!
Years ago , when I was but a wee nubbin , and not even a sprout , I was told by someone that most would consider very religious , and to me was very wise, when I questioned the many different practices , that it was always best to remember the reason for the season.
Over the years I came to a conclusion that works well for me .
If a Christian friend wishes me a merry Christmas , I accept it , and say and the same to you and yours .
If jewish friend wishes me a happy hannukah (sp) I accept it and reply and the same to you and your family.
If someone wishes me a happy Kwanza , I still say the same .
If some one wishes me a happy holidays I accept it and repeat it to them.
What is important I think is each of these greetings is one of well wishes , dependent on the individuals beliefs and or faiths , but in the end they are ALL well wishes from one to another, and these wishes are an expression of hope , and caring and recognition of others as people , be it comes from family , friends or complete strangers. to the one giving the greeting or saying? it may very well be the reason for the season.
Oh and the one I consider wise? was my grand mother , may she rest in peace.
and I will excuse myself from the conversation to dig out my turkey fryer and get it ready for tomorrow , the woman is most likely rolling over , with all the time she wasted teaching me how to oven roast a perfect turkey now that I deep fry them.....
My hope is when someone gives you a greeting , you all stop and see the positive in it they are conveying and smile, a statement of well wishing and not offence.
A well thought out post. Thanks for putting it here. It is all about the intent of the one wishing well wishes to another person. Then it’s up to the recipient to be graceful in reply. There likely aren’t many who would deliberately say the greeting they know will offend the one they address. A non believer saying something other than Merry Christmas to one they know to be a Christian is the most likely deliberate intent wrong greeting.