The next few months are going to bring a crescendo to all this. Donald Trump will become the subject of numerous inquiries into his fitness for office. As Trumpsters stand by their man , in the face of overwhelming evidence he is unfit, the fabric of our society will be tested like it has rarely been before.

It was in the news yesterday that a close associate of Michael Cohen says that Cohen is going to describe Trump as a "madman" when he testifies to Congress in a few weeks.

What other presidents in the past 100 years have been described in congressional testimony as a "madman" ?  Uh, none.

To Trumpsters - come to your senses.

"Conjecture" is so much fun.....ain't it ? So SIMPLE....one doesn't have to "Think" ….. AT ALL ! LOL !

LDS back atchya !

I can make a word salad too. Would you like one?

Your article covered it nicely !

No need for anymore contributions to the original "Word Cookie Lettuce" .

Everyone familiar with you on internet forums knows you are an anarcho-capitalist, which is a right wing anarchist, or right wing libertarian, and so your interest per your ideology is chaos.

You are indifferent about people's objections to Trump because you are happy to see him cause daily chaos in the government and in the national news media.

He isnt qualified in any way to lead America.

Of course anarchists dont want a leader for America, they may not even want an America.

In other words, your opinions on this topic are moot.

It is sad, pitiful, pathetic, pick your own word, to see people bend over backwards to "find" defenses for Donald Trump. 

One should not look at Trump criticism as all-or-none (either full criticism or full support).   If someone raises an objection to Trump (in some ways) one should not deem that person excusing Trump simply because the objection was not raised with sufficient fury or volume.   And if someone disagrees on a raised objection to Trump that in and of itself does not mean the person supports Trump in general.   Especially if the raised objection was nit-picky, false or overly-emotional.

Partisan thinking is often counter productive.   Largely due to too much emotion clouding the thought process.

And if someone disagrees on a raised objection to Trump that in and of itself does not mean the person supports Trump in general.    Especially if the raised objection was nit-picky, false or overly-emotional.

No one has to weave their way through a field of multi-level objections to Trump and sort them all out or rank them according to how viable or true they are.

Never in a million years would Trump merit that kind of consideration. This man is a piece of human garbage.

I have an article I was going to seed but since so many people are complaining here about Trump overkill I was just leave it for you to read.

Remember, we are talking about the president of the United States.

WIRED ›

It would be rather embarrassing for Donald Trump at this point if Robert Mueller were to declare that the president isn’t an agent of Russian intelligence.

The pattern of his pro-Putin, pro-Russia, anti-FBI, anti-intelligence community actions are so one-sided, and the lies and obfuscation surrounding every single Russian meeting and conversation so consistent that if this president isn’t actually hiding a massive conspiracy, it means the alternative is worse: America elected a chief executive so oblivious to geopolitics, so self-centered and personally insecure, so naturally predisposed to undermine democratic institutions and coddle authoritarians, and so terrible a manager and leader that he cluelessly surrounded himself with crooks, grifters, and agents of foreign powers that he’s compromised the national security of the US government and undermined 75 years of critical foreign alliances, just to satiate his own ego.

In short, we’ve reached a point in the Mueller probe where there are only two scenarios left: Either the president is compromised by the Russian government and has been working covertly to cooperate with Vladimir Putin after Russia helped win him the 2016 election—or Trump will go down in history as the world’s most famous “useful idiot,” as communists used to call those who could be co-opted to the cause without realizing it.

At least the former scenario—that the president of the United States is actively working to advance the interests of our country’s foremost, long-standing, traditional foreign adversary—would make him seem smarter and wilier. The latter scenario is simply a tragedy, or maybe a farce for everyone involved.

We’re left here—in a place unprecedented in American political history, wondering how much worse the truth is than we already know—after four days of fresh revelations in the public drip-drip-drip of the Russia investigation. The past two months have seen the public understanding of the case advance into almost unthinkable territory . Now we’re simply trying to figure out how bad things really are.

Consider: On Friday, The New York Times reported that the FBI opened a counterintelligence investigation of the president himself in 2017; on Saturday, The Washington Post published a story saying that Trump has gone to great lengths to cover up and hide—even from his own aides—his interactions with Putin; on Sunday, columnist Max Boot outlined the case for Trump as a Russian asset; and on Tuesday the Times came back with an authoritative recounting of Trump and Putin’s interactions , a recounting that included a bizarre telephone call from Air Force One where the president tried to argue off the record that contrary to the unanimous conclusion of his own intelligence community, “that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference.”

Like so much of the strangeness of the Trump era, these new revelations are simultaneously shocking but not surprising. Of course the FBI wondered why Trump’s actions toward Russia and the intelligence community were so aberrant and felt compelled to investigate. But to fully understand why these revelations matter so much in the grand scheme of the special counsel's investigation and the Russia probe, it helps to understand a bit about spies and the unique, dual mission of the FBI—which is tasked not just with enforcing federal criminal laws, but also with protecting the nation’s secrets, politics, and economy from undue foreign influence.

I’ve said before that one of the most misunderstood aspects of this investigation—from the start and to this day—is that it began by targeting the Trump campaign and Americans like Carter Page and George Papadopoulos. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Page and Papadopoulos (and, more recently, Michael Flynn) have shouted from the rooftops in recent months that they were entrapped and targeted by the Deep State FBI—that’s even the name of Papadopoulos’ forthcoming, fever-dream-inspired book —but the FBI started with their best interests’ at heart: Agents saw people with ties to the Russian government circling around the Trump campaign, and the FBI stepped in, entirely appropriately, to monitor that activity.

The FBI was apparently alerted to this activity by their own intelligence and from tips provided by friendly foreign intelligence overseas. It wasn’t like these Russia-affiliated characters were necessarily new to the FBI: In 2013, FBI agents in New York had watched as undercover officers from the Russian SVR, its foreign intelligence service, akin to the CIA, tried to recruit Carter Page as an asset, only to determine he was too scatterbrained to be of any use.

The FBI investigation during the 2016 presidential campaign, which we know now was codenamed Crossfire Hurricane , began as an attempt to protect Trump, to protect a political neophyte and the bizarre assortment of advisers who had surrounded him—the American political equivalent of the Star Wars bar scene—from what the FBI believed were the nefarious efforts of shadowy Kremlin-linked players.

Now counterintelligence investigations, as shadowy as they are, are just that—their singular goal is to counter specific efforts of foreign intelligence services.

Counterintelligence cases are markedly different than criminal cases because when they begin the ultimate goal isn’t necessarily a pair of handcuffs and a courtroom—the goal is simply to counter the targeted activity. That can mean an arrest in some cases, but it also can mean simply watching—monitoring a suspected intelligence officer’s or agent’s activities and meetings, as the FBI evidently did with the NRA’s Russian friend, Maria Butina, for years.

It can also mean covertly disrupting or neutralizing the activity in some way, which can be as simple as showing up unannounced in US offices to warn unwitting Americans that they might have interacted with—or are about to interact with—a suspected undercover intelligence officer. (The Trump campaign did, in fact, receive so-called “defensive” briefings from the FBI to be wary that it might be the target of outreach and attempted influence from foreign powers—warnings the campaign pointedly ignored, either stupidly or conspiratorially.) At their most advanced, counterintelligence investigations can lead to the recruitment of double agents, triple agents, or the feeding of false intelligence or information back through identified spy channels.

Counterintelligence cases come with special authorities, including powerful FISA warrants for monitoring communications—and also special oversight, coordinated nationally through the Justice Department’s National Security Division—because they’re vital to the security of the United States and because they’re meant to help protect both ordinary, unwitting Americans as well as the nation’s political and military leaders.

The evolution of the FBI’s inquiry—from starting out in the spring of 2016 by attempting to protect the Trump campaign to realizing by the fall that the Trump campaign was open for business with Russia to wondering by the spring of 2017 whether the candidate-turned-president himself was in on or even directing the plot—must have been headspinning for the bureau and its allies in the Justice Department.

We still don’t understand nearly enough about what transpired inside the ironically paired FBI’s J. Edgar Hoover Building headquarters on one side of Pennsylvania Avenue and the Justice Department’s Robert F. Kennedy building across the street during the 10 days between FBI Director James Comey’s firing and the appointment of Mueller as special counsel—the panic on the part of Acting Director Andrew McCabe, the befuddlement of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, and the horror among agents and prosecutors. (We might know more when McCabe’s memoir comes out later this spring.)

But we know that there was evidence that deeply concerned both McCabe and Rosenstein. And we know, too, that we haven’t yet seen that evidence.

It’s easy to forget how much of this case the FBI and Robert Mueller know that we don’t. For just one example: We know thanks to the bumbling of Representative Devin Nunes that Carter Page was targeted with a FISA warrant that was renewed three times, each for an additional 90 days, by two successive deputy attorneys general: Sally Yates and Rod Rosenstein. Each time the FISA warrant was renewed, the Justice Department would have had to demonstrate to a court that it had uncovered new intelligence showing that Page was having contact with foreign agents. What was this new intelligence? What was Page doing during this whole period, which stretched from a couple weeks before the November 2016 election right through the transition and the opening of the Trump presidency? We don’t yet know.

Nearly all of the revelations we’ve seen thus far from the Mueller probe and the Russia investigation have focused on the “what.” Some of the whats we know so far: Paul Manafort—a money launderer, deeply indebted to Russian oligarchs, who was working for free as Trump’s campaign chair—passed polling data to someone tied to Russian intelligence. The Trump Tower Moscow project continued well into the campaign. National Security Adviser Michael Flynn tried to cover up his conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The attack on the 2016 election by Russian intelligence, approved by Vladimir Putin himself, shifted over the course of 2016 from merely attacking Hillary Clinton to actively boosting Trump himself. Kremlin-linked figures sat down with Trump’s campaign leaders in June 2016. Trump confiscated the notes of his government interpreter after meeting with Putin in Hamburg.

What we haven’t seen in any of these instances (and many others) is the “why.” That’s where we’ll ultimately learn the truth about which scenario we face: An incredibly hapless and easily coopted president—or an active criminal conspirator? Why was Paul Manafort funneling campaign polling data through Konstantin Kliminik? Why does Robert Mueller believe Kliminik is tied to Russian intelligence? Why does the US believe Putin himself approved the attack?

And now we can add the following whys: Why has Trump covered up his interactions with Putin from his own government? Why has he sought out Putin for private conversations? Why did he confiscate the notes from his interpreter?

Presumably, the FBI and Robert Mueller uncovered all these “whats” relatively quickly and easily. The investigation has stretched on to document and understand the “whys.”

As Esquire’s Charlie Pierce noted this week, the New York Times’ carefully written story on the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation includes a deeply pregnant phrase: “No evidence has emerged publicly that Mr. Trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from Russian government officials.” No evidence has emerged publicly . But there’s plenty of bread crumbs pointing to the idea that such evidence exists secretly, with investigators.

Understanding and answering those “why” questions will mark this final phase of Mueller’s investigation. Only then will the nation and the world know the answer to the one big, honking “what” question that’s left: What is Trump’s motives for all his inexplicable actions? It’s hard to know which answer will be worse for the country.

Garrett M. Graff ( @vermontgmg ) is a contributing editor for WIRED and the co-author of Dawn of the Code War: America's Battle Against Russia, China, and the Rising Global Cyber Threat . He can be reached at garrett.graff@gmail.com.

The idea that there are two viable sides to this story and we should be "fair" to trump is preposterous. Even if he did not take direct orders from the Russians he is still a million miles from "innocence".

Never in a million years would Trump merit that kind of consideration. This man is a piece of human garbage.

You presume that any counter argument for any allegation would be for Trump's benefit.   Sometimes it is simply the pursuit of truth.

Short and sweet - there are so many problems that Trump brings on to himself, it is just silly (and self-defeating) to demand that everyone be overly-emotional about every issue lest they be deemed a Trump apologist / defender / whatever.

As to embedding a seed in your comment, do you think I am a Trump supporter?

John I have a question. Whether you answer me or not is not important. 

My question is do you Believe trump is out to help or hurt the country ? 

and why do you see that ?  is a good second question.

.............................................................

IMO: I truly believe trump is out to help america,  but all for selfish reasons and I've already stated my disagreement with pretty much all of his ways and means of accomplishment. His personality sucks ta boot. 

I also believe he would hurt america all he could if he gets his feelings hurt bad enough, I look at him as a child gone wrong that knows what to say to get his way, over and over.  A spoiled brat with all the power to abuse.

Not good but I still dont think hating him or constantly slamming him will end this.  Do you ? ... Sorry third question, also not really important to anyone but yourself.

Good luck to you John and good luck to America. WE WILL out last trump  one way or another.  LOL most of us will probably out live the fat old junk food eating bastard as well.  

Smile 

Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist. The world only exists to him to the extent that it can validate his belief that he is THE man.  "Only I can fix this".

Everything he does is based on whether or not he believes he will deserve praise for it.

He is sort of stuck acting like a Fox News junkie because those are the people that voted for him.

There is no reason why America should have to put up with this.

Wally, your comments waste everyone's time on this forum. Unfortunately, you are allowed to do so by the management.

I'm not over emotional about Trump, I'm not emotional about Trump at all,  and I'm not sure I know anyone who is over emotional about Trump, although there probably are some people in the cybersphere who are.

I just tell the obvious truth about Trump. Donald trump is an unindicted criminal. Along with his parents he defrauded the government out of tens of millions of dollars of taxes  The New York Times conclusively proved that back in the fall. Since the statute of limitations have expired on those crimes, the story never got the traction in the media it deserved. That is almost surely the tip of the iceberg of his illegal activity. It is not emotional to point such things out, it is straightforward fact. He defrauded working people out of their life savings in some cases as the owner of Trump University. There is fraud involved in his condo businesses. He is an obvious grifter and con man. Why the hell should he be president of the United States just because some people didnt like Hillary Clinton?

Donald Trump is a malignant narcissist.

True and the reality is, neither you nor I can change that. We also dont have to allow him to change us. I don't. I'm still the same before and after this asshat was elected. I'll be the same after he's gone as well, still a responsible self reliant human just doin the best I can and enjoying all I can of a short life. 

Your ho-hum attitude about Trump is truly sickening.  This maniac is a serious threat to America and all her allies.  JR's level of outrage and concern is totally appropriate.  

level of outrage and concern is totally appropriate.

And the obvious benefits are ? 

I'm still the same before and after this asshat was elected. I'll be the same after he's gone as well, still a responsible self reliant human just doin the best I can and enjoying all I can of a short life. 

That's fine, I'll be the same.  I don't think that's really all that relevant to Trump though.

That's fine, I'll be the same.

OK, Another question to ask only yourself, Am I the same now as before this man was elected ? Do I do what i did and think like I did ? or maybe am I giving this asshat too much of myself ? 

I wish you the best John I also know what an obsession can do to me.  and it ain't pretty in the end. 

This too shall pass. How we come out of it is most important. Sane is my preference.

smiles 

This is exactly what I was talking about.   Labeling my view of Trump as ‘ho hum’.   You attack people who do not support Trump if they do not present an extreme emotional position.

That is counterproductive and indeed tactically stupid.

Attack positions that wrongly defend Trump.   Do not make like-minded but likely more rational positions your opposition.   That is a tactic that is beyond stupid.

"I'll be the same..."

Khashoggi's widow won't be.  Neither will the friends and family of the girl who was murdered by Trump's newly inspired white supremacists.  Even more importantly, America will never be trusted by her allies again.  If we can elect a totally corrupt, Putin loving dirtbag once, we can do it again.

Well, I'm not a troll , so I have that.

What have you got?

Wally, your comments waste everyone's time on this forum.

As do yours. What's your point?

'm not over emotional about Trump, I'm not emotional about Trump at all

Seriously????? Your whole being is anti Trump. I'm starting to worry about you, John. Every single seed you have here is rife with TDS. Do you have a hobby other than TDS? Try a movie, go out to dinner, to a park..something...anything...

Good luck to you...

America will never be trusted by her allies again.

Oh, I think with the right leadership we can get that trust back

If John wants to use his article quota posting about Donald Trump then he should be able to do it without harassment.   For those who are tired of these articles I suggest you skip over them rather than questioning the seeder's motives or mental health.  

I thought the purpose of the forum was to stimulate discussion and exchange ideas and perspectives.  It doesn't seem like that isn't what's happening but it hasn't happened on this site for quite some time.   

PJ, there are very few people on this site who have posted more non Trump or non political seeds than I have. AMac's photography and Buzz's China stuff come to mind, but that's probably about it.

Since I have been at Newstalkers I have seeded hundreds of non political articles.

I suggest you skip over them

I can't. They allow me to laugh heartily several times a day.

'If John wants to use his article quota posting about Donald Trump then he should be able to do it without harassment.'

It seems a certain moderator takes part in that quite frequently.  

Morning..We watch with great interest across the Pacific...2 years in and I would say Trump will be there for the next 2..For all the running around like a pack of headless chooks and doom and gloom predictions he is still resident in the White House.. He was voted in by the people and will be voted out by the people...At the end of the day just get on with it, do the best you can, take care of your own and bide your time...As really it is out of your hands now what happens higher up and I don't see the sense stressing over it...Why do you want to waste valuable brain cells on bloody Politicians..Yes he does make weird decisions and what he says leaves a lot to be desired at times, but one day he will be gone....And the next one will come in and that is no different to any other Democracy....

Leaves a lot to be desired??  Talk about an understatement.  Some things are worth stressing over, my friend, see 11 below.

Gidday..The only thing stress is going to do is put you in an early grave and that is no help to anyone....Yes we see and hear all the stuff that is going on there and around the world..But at the end of the day what can you/we actually do about it?? Nothing...Somethings you have to switch off from and let it go..The powers that be will do what they want when they want....We hear about it after the fact and by then it is to late...I concentrate on what I can change in my family or in my patch of the neighbourhood...as at the end of that day you have to look after number 1....Half the time now I don't even watch the news when Politics comes on...As I said they are a bunch of pig trough pollies and out for one thing...themselves...and I have no time for them...on either side of the Pacific....Hmm think it is time I got the boogie board and hit the waves again...Hang in there Lenny..things can only get better....Hope it is not to cold where you are.....

TDS?  Trump Derangement Syndrome?

No and No.  The Trump said his 'Vietnam Experience' was dodging STD's.  Not TSD's.  That's what he told Howard Stern.

There are about a dozen coc violations towards me on this seed.

None of them were purple penned because I didnt flag them.

That is the fatal flaw of the moderation on this site. Only SOME violations are dealt with, and it is entirely based on who flags, and why.

Article is locked.