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Trump’s border emergency becomes more real by the day as migrants stack up along the Rio Grande

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  1stwarrior  •  5 years ago  •  134 comments

Trump’s border emergency becomes more real by the day as migrants stack up along the Rio Grande

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T





EL PASO - They came in pairs, by the dozens, hundreds. In one group, as many as 400 migrants crossed the border here in a single, massive group.

Many are families. And some would soon sleep for the first time on U.S. soil -- but out in the open, under the stars because federal agents are having a difficult time processing them and getting them to shelter.

“What’s we’re seeing is something I haven’t seen in at least 10 years,” said Joe Romero, a veteran U.S. Border Patrol agent. And yet, when asked whether he was witnessing an emergency on the border, Romero paused and kept his eyes on the road. He and his partner drove slowly Wednesday in the shadow of a fence, long stretches of it lined with migrants waiting to be transported to begin the process of seeking asylum. The migrants stood restless, exhausted, most with children, stuck between the Rio Grande where the U.S. begins and a fence that runs along the river yards away from it, designed to keep them out.

Some agents now call the fence a wall, a term that conveniently fits the White House narrative. President Donald J. Trump has declared a national emergency to fund construction of a real wall. Border apprehensions are rising rapidly, especially the number of families from Central America heading to the U.S. to seek asylum. But overall apprehensions are still the lowest they have been in years.

“I’m not going to say this is an emergency,” Romero finally said, breaking the silence. “But it is a much bigger challenge and it puts a strain on manpower. Our goal is to adapt and conquer.”

The border patrol expected to take more than 1,000 migrants into custody along this strip Wednesday and Thursday, a record number in the El Paso sector. And that’s just people who arrive along the 10-mile stretch between El Paso’s Chihuahuita neighborhood and the Ysleta area, in the city’s Lower Valley.

If not a national emergency, the situation is at least a humanitarian crisis. As of dawn Thursday, some of the same people who were detained on the strip of land were still waiting to be processed in the same spot, their shadows looming behind the steel wire mesh fences as overwhelmed border patrol agents coped with transporting them to processing centers. It’s unclear how many may have been stuck overnight, but it’s clear that some were.

“It’s not an easy process,” said Ramiro Cordero, Border Patrol spokesman. “We’re doing this little by little, as buses can take 40 people and we have to be careful about not mixing unaccompanied minors with adults. We do the best we can under a difficult situation.”

Volunteers from the Hope Institute, including its executive director, spent Wednesday evening by the fence handing out granola bars, three cases of potato chips and water bottles through a small window-like hole in the fence. Catholic nuns brought trays of sandwiches and more water. Some blessed the migrants and put ash on their foreheads, as temperatures fell and winds grew on Ash Wednesday.

Back in Washington, Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen echoed Trump’s claim that the surge of migrants, many from Guatemala, is not a manufactured crisis, but a real crisis on the border, big enough to be declared a national emergency. She estimated about one million people will be apprehended by the end of fiscal 2019.

“We face a crisis -- a real, serious and sustained crisis at our borders,” she said at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing.

Critics insist the only crisis is the one Trump has created through new immigration restrictions, such as his metering system that requires asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while U.S. officials slowly process their cases. This policy, facing a court challenge by the ACLU,  pushed entire families away from ports of entry to remote, rugged areas where they crossed to turn themselves in.

More recently, massive groups have been steered by their smugglers to places closer to El Paso to cross. Once they are on U.S. soil, they can legally request asylum. A U.S. intelligence official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said this week that the large-scale migrant-smuggling operations near remote Antelope Wells, N.M. -- where hundreds of migrants and their families were turning themselves in after crossing the border -- had moved closer to Texas because criminal groups were becoming fearful that too much U.S. law enforcement attention was threatening their drug-trafficking business.

The border patrol’s El Paso sector, which includes all of New Mexico, has seen an 430 percent increase in “apprehensions” of families and children this fiscal year, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

Some days, the sector records the highest apprehension numbers, although the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas leads the nation in over apprehensions, followed by El Paso and then the San Diego sector.

“I don’t see these numbers falling, but increasing,” said Romero.




And so it went this week, just as a cold front moved on in the early days of March, ushering in bright sunshine and new challenges for Romero and fellow agents.

Romero said “these coordinated” efforts to send migrants across are used by smugglers as distracting tactics to also smuggle across “something more nefarious, like drugs, or some big criminal leader. That’s what worries me.”

The migrants themselves, “Those people don’t scare me,” he said.

Among the group detained Wednesday along the fence: an unaccompanied 2-year old child. Authorities were working with international groups to locate the parents.

Two of the new arrivals were sex offenders and one a U.S. citizen, a "self-proclaimed prison gang member" who was arrested by agents and turned over to U.S. Marshals.

Most of the migrants interviewed said they were from Guatemala. Some gave accounts consistent with previous reporting in Guatemala: Smugglers promised to get them to the U.S. border in record time. But they needed to make the journey now, because Trump is mercurial and may shut down the border any day, change immigration policy that allows them to seek asylum, or force people to stay in Mexico until called to apply for asylum under a tacit agreement with the administration of Mexico President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador.

Remaining in Mexico is the last thing migrants want to do: waiting, for example, in Ciudad Juarez across from El Paso -- a city where drug violence is once again exploding and the murder rate is on the rise. On Sunday, Juarez police commander Adrian Matsumoto Dorame was gunned down.

“Juarez is just as dangerous as Honduras,” said migrant Fanny Jozare Medrano, 25. She said said she was running away from gang violence in Honduras and headed for Virginia where relatives awaited her.

Some migrants said it took them anywhere from a week to more than a month to make the journey north. Some had waited at a shelter or gym in Juarez for days. Others went straight to the Rio Grande, with the help of “guides.”

Some mothers sounded worried. Their babies were hungry. They had been there since 5 a.m. and now it was near noon. Romero said they were doing all they could.  Siomara Gonzalez, 19, stood with her 12-year-old brother Cristobal, tired, but happy, she said. She had achieved their dream. They could see the U.S. through the fence, across a highway.  They were headed for Maryland, they said, running away from abusive parents and gangs trying to recruit them.

“From the moment we left Guatemala, this was our goal, to be here in the United States and start anew, help my brother become something better,” said Gonzalez.

Eneas Constanza, 25, from Peten, Guatemala, was headed for Alabama. His overnight talk with a cousin back in Alabama had given him a sense of urgency.

“I understand there was a bad tornado,” he said. “And there’s plenty of work.” He crossed with his 5-year-old daughter.

Romero, 49, meanwhile, kept his eyes on the rugged dirt road, as radio chatter, once busy with alerts, was mostly silent. It would pick up again, he assured, before sunset.

He pointed across the Rio Grande to Mexico, where smugglers sit and watch patiently, sometimes alongside migrants, directing when and where they should run into or simply walk across the border to turn themselves in.

Romero said one smuggler even sits on a sofa directing human traffic.

Does Romero need more support? Money, boots on the ground?

“What we have now works,” he said. “The fence is part of the tools that we need, along with technology, boots on the ground, all are force multipliers to help us be effective and efficient.. Can we use more help? Always.”







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1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1  seeder  1stwarrior    5 years ago

More recently, massive groups have been steered by their smugglers to places closer to El Paso to cross. Once they are on U.S. soil, they can legally request asylum. A U.S. intelligence official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said this week that the large-scale migrant-smuggling operations near remote Antelope Wells, N.M. -- where hundreds of migrants and their families were turning themselves in after crossing the border -- had moved closer to Texas because criminal groups were becoming fearful that too much U.S. law enforcement attention was threatening their drug-trafficking business.

The border patrol’s El Paso sector, which includes all of New Mexico, has seen an 430 percent increase in “apprehensions” of families and children this fiscal year, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

"this fiscal year" - so, from 1 October to 1 March, 5 months, there has been a 430 percent increase?????

Sure DC, we ain't got no problems.

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1  It Is ME  replied to  1stwarrior @1    5 years ago
Sure DC, we ain't got no problems.

"Democrats" and "Donkeys" just fit ! jrSmiley_15_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
1.1.1  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  It Is ME @1.1    5 years ago

So does not facing reality.  It's all about votes and "gimmes".

 
 
 
It Is ME
Masters Guide
1.1.2  It Is ME  replied to  1stwarrior @1.1.1    5 years ago
So does not facing reality.  It's all about votes and "gimmes".

Yip !

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @1    5 years ago

Yep, just more of that "manufactured crisis" them snowflake progressive liberal Democrats keep insisting we have down here on the border...jrSmiley_90_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
2  seeder  1stwarrior    5 years ago

And, of course, since this is factual, from a Texas newspaper, we ain't gonna hear from the "progressive Dems" in defense/offense.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
2.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  1stwarrior @2    5 years ago

WE both know they have problems with reality.....

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3  Dulay    5 years ago

So based on the content of the seeded article, the crisis is the plethora of families with children coming here for asylum.

I seem to remember that sometime before the midterms, Trump warned of 'caravans'. Every time another 'caravan' starts out from Central America, Trump puts out another warning. So there can be no doubt that Trump knows what's happening and what's GOING to happen. 

Yet the ONLY solution that Trump has proposed is to build a WALL that won't be finished any time soon. One would think that with the plethora of tools available to Trump, in the last 5 months he could have thought of some solutions that would mitigate the IMMEDIATE crisis. 

Officials on the border KNOW what the immediate needs that these families with children have, food, water, medical and housing. Instead of addressing those needs, they've been dumping asylum seekers in Texas without giving notice to the charities in the area who do their best to help. 

If we are acknowledging that this is a humanitarian crisis, we should be dealing with it with humanitarian services. In short, FEMA, the Red Cross and NG/Army Medical teams could and should be responding to the border...

Instead of running barbed wired, troops could be setting up and running mess tents and MASH units. 

Now I'm pretty sure that replies to my post will be: FUCK THEM.

But remember, the seed stated:

If not a national emergency, the situation is at least a humanitarian crisis.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3    5 years ago

Instead of running barbed wire?????  Hell no.  Many PEOPLE LIVING DOWN HERE want to place machine gun nests on the border with authorization to kill any and all ILLEGAL ALIENS who cross the U.S./Mexican border WITHOUT authorization.

Running mess tents and MASH units?  WTF do you think this is - Korea with Donald Sutherland and Eliot Gould????  They are Illegal Aliens and deserve to be turned back around at the border without gaining foothold on U.S. soil, especially the "fake" asylum seekers.

Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection 1324(a)(3).

The Democrats are guilty as hell of violating the above LAW.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.1  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2    5 years ago
 Hell no.

So what's YOUR solution to the humanitarian crisis 1st? 

They are Illegal Aliens and deserve to be turned back around at the border without gaining foothold on U.S. soil, especially the "fake" asylum seekers.

Under the law, an asylum seeker may NOT be 'turned back' 1st. The CBP is violating the law. 

It's hypocritical to demand that one law be followed while at the same time demanding that another be violated. 

Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324

You may want to recognize that the person being smuggled is NOT guilty of a crime under that statute 1st. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.4  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.1    5 years ago

You may want to recognize that that person IS guilty - as they are the initiator of the crime.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.5  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.1    5 years ago

And, by the $*))(*^^&#@#$^&)T%# way, 8 U.S.C. 1325 sez they are.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.2.6  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.5    5 years ago

Nailed it!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.7  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.4    5 years ago
You may want to recognize that that person IS guilty - as they are the initiator of the crime.

Not under that USC they aren't. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.8  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.5    5 years ago
And, by the $*))(*^^&#@#$^&)T%# way, 8 U.S.C. 1325 sez they are.

That USC isn't about smuggling, IS IT 1st? 

So are you murdering these families with machine guns, turning the families away after claiming asylum in violation of Federal and International law or arresting families and putting them in jail as 'illegal aliens'?

You really need to pick one 1st. 

Trump issued an EO in JUNE 2018 about this yet they continue to release families onto the streets of cities along the border. It tasked the DOD and DHS to mitigate the 'alien family' 'crisis'.

That whole 'crisis' thingy sure as hell didn't seem to light a fire under the DHS. Nielsen is still flailing...

Nielsen's inaction doesn't engender confidence in her competence to lead the Agency. Her recent performance during a Congressional hearing was catastrophic. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.9  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.8    5 years ago

No Dulay - it's about people crossing the U.S. border, without permission - REGARDLESS of how they cross.

Yes, "Title 8, Aliens and Nationality, United States Code" is about Immigration.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.2.10  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.9    5 years ago

It never fails to amaze me how much the left chooses to ignore the effects of illegal crossings to people living the immediate U.S. side of the border. To them, the effects of illegal immigration to said residents do not exist to them. It is all about the poor illegals. As has been said before, those on the left posting here, for the most part, do not live on or anywhere near the border like you and I do and thus turn a blind eye to what I said above. Many think they have all the answers as spoonfed to them by the progressive liberal media. Nor are they willing to make any attempt to come to the border and see for themselves because they would have to face a different reality.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.11  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.9    5 years ago
Yes, "Title 8, Aliens and Nationality, United States Code" is about Immigration.

So instead of murdering them with machine guns or turning them back in violation of the law, you want to arrest families and put them in jail. 

Well at least you've come to a more 'humane' position. 

Trump's EO claims that's what he wants to do too but doesn't really address where the hell he's going to put all those families. They've had 9 months to react to the 'crisis' and haven't done anything but bloviate. 

Maybe you can suggest a solution on how to implement your 'zero tolerance' program that is Constitutional and within the rulings that Judges have made about child detention. 

It sure as hell looks like Trump and Nielsen are stumped...

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
3.2.12  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @3.2.7    5 years ago

Why are you so OK with illegals? How many have you taken into your home, fed them, put a roof over their head, supplied them with clean clothes, etc?

None...you say...why do you insist the rest of us do it?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.13  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.11    5 years ago

Based on your needs Dulay, I'll let the cop shop in my town know that they can no longer separate the drunk drivers, bank robbers, wife/husband abusers, car thieves, drug dealers, etc., and their children and that they have to share the same cell.  And, I'll be sure to let the judges in the district know that they can't send an individual to prison unless they send the children with them.  I mean, I'll be sure to tell them that the "HUMANE" people in the world are more worried about allowing ILLEGAL ALIENS who are breaking a number of Federal laws, that they are more important than the people who are law-abiding and legally living in the U. S.

I realize it's hard for you to accept, but, when an individual breaks the law - THAT individual has to be penalized.  If that individual is in a crowd of 50 and that individual is the only one who broke the law, only that individual has to be penalized, not the other 49.  So, when a person robs a bank and runs out to their get-a-way car that has their two sons and little daughter and wife in it - when he is caught, ONLY that person is arrested and sent to jail - face trial and go to prison.

That's the way the system works.  Maybe not in your world, but it does work down here.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.14  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @3.2.12    5 years ago

I'm talking about the law. Try to keep up.  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.15  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.13    5 years ago
Based on your needs Dulay, 

Strawman waste of time 1st.

when an individual breaks the law - THAT individual has to be penalized.

Your seed is about FAMILIES 1st and we have been talking about FAMILIES all along. 

Maybe the reason that you're defecting is that you can't figure out how to meet YOUR needs without violating the Constitution? 

That's the way the system works. Maybe not in your world, but it does work down here.

Really 1st? Perhaps you should take a couple of minutes and re-read you own seed. It sure as hell doesn't look like it's working very well down there...

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.16  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.15    5 years ago

Breaking up families because the "breadwinner" has to go to jail covered the discussion quite well.  Don't know where the mamby pambies came from, but this BS about keeping the Illegal Alien family together is contrary to the majority of law enforcement protocols in the majority of countries.

No, it's not working very well.  We need a barrier to keep them out of the U. S. until they are vetted, per the existing laws.  We need so many, many things to assist our BP to do the job they are tasked with doing - and friggin' babysitting and spending $45M since 2015 on medical aid - where is the friggin' help that Congress is supposed to be giving us?  Where is it?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.17  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.16    5 years ago
Breaking up families because the "breadwinner" has to go to jail covered the discussion quite well. 

Actually, you suggested that they go to jail together, didn't you? 

Don't know where the mamby pambies came from, but this BS about keeping the Illegal Alien family together is contrary to the majority of law enforcement protocols in the majority of countries.

It came from International law and treaty to which we are a signatory. 

No, it's not working very well.  We need a barrier to keep them out of the U. S. until they are vetted, per the existing laws. 

Then tell the CBP to VET them instead of illegally turning them away at ports of entry. 

We need so many, many things to assist our BP to do the job they are tasked with doing - and friggin' babysitting and spending $45M since 2015 on medical aid - 

Link on that 45M claim please. 

where is the friggin' help that Congress is supposed to be giving us? Where is it?

By help I presume you mean MORE SPENDING. Didn't you just whine about that? 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.18  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.17    5 years ago

No, I did not.

Show me that link - specifically where it states families should stay together.

They are being vetted - but, the Dems want them released into the U.S..  The "Asylum" seekers stay, per the law - the Illegals who are not asylum seekers are sent back but are to return for their court hearings.

No - you did.  It takes money to run an organization - keeping it updated with proper equipment, manning, funding, support - but, you already know that.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3.2.19  Kavika   replied to  1stwarrior @3.2    5 years ago
Instead of running barbed wire?????  Hell no.  Many PEOPLE LIVING DOWN HERE want to place machine gun nests on the border with authorization to kill any and all ILLEGAL ALIENS who cross the U.S./Mexican border WITHOUT authorization.

That's a very disgusting comment. Un frickin' believable. 

Why not just re institute the ''long walk'' again...Only a percent of them will starve or freeze to death. That should satisfy their blood lust.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.20  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.18    5 years ago
No, I did not.
Show me that link - specifically where it states families should stay together.

Oh but you did:

And, I'll be sure to let the judges in the district know that they can't send an individual to prison unless they send the children with them.

You said that right? 

That Washington Examiner article is so utterly contradictory. 

9 Million per year since 2015 was 'diverted'. Why not BUDGET that amount? 

9 million diverted from Dec. 2018 - Feb. 24, 2019, so now suddenly it's 9 million for 3 MONTHS. 

Yet Congress allocated $415 million in Jan 2019. So that 9 Million is suddenly only for 1 MONTH. 

It makes no sense. 

BTW, I note that there is no link to the actual data so, as with the Examiner's usual practice, we're just supposed to take their word for it. 

No - you did.

I did? Please link my comment in which you claim that I did. 

It takes money to run an organization - keeping it updated with proper equipment, manning, funding, support - but, you already know that.

The Congress just passed a bill with BILLIONS for the CBP, but you already know that. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.2.21  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @3.2.20    5 years ago

Sorry Dulay - until you learn how to discuss a topic without trying to acting like a prosecuting attorney, I'm going to place you on ignore.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.2.22  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.2.21    5 years ago

That's pretty hypocritical since YOU were the one that brought up the codes that YOU want to use to prosecute families. 

BTW, calling out contradictory content isn't being 'prosecutorial', it's just a matter of critical thinking...

Perhaps the reason that you decry my comments as prosecutorial is that you haven't been able to put up a cogent defense.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.3  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @3    5 years ago
Yet the ONLY solution that Trump has proposed is to build a WALL

Not true. He has suggested several solutions to work together, as seen in his 10-point plan that he proposed while running for president.

1. Build the wall
2. End “catch and release.”
3. Create a deportation task force and focus on criminals in the country illegally
4. Defund sanctuary cities
5. Cancel President Obama’s executive actions
6. Extreme vetting. Block immigration from some nations
7. Force other countries to take back those whom the U.S. wants to deport
8. Get biometric visa tracking system fully in place
9. Strengthen E-Verify, block jobs for the undocumented
10. Limit legal immigration, lower it to “historic norms,” and set new caps
 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
3.3.1  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Tacos! @3.3    5 years ago

Tacos - the only thing that the Libs look at regarding Trump is what they can block next.

We should note that Trump was able to work on/do #'s 5 and 6.  He has been stymied by the opposing side on # 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9 and 10, which brings up the question of - "Why do the Dems/Libs want to protect Illegal Aliens so badly that they will let U.S. Citizens get shafted."??????  Why are Illegal Aliens so important to the Dems/Libs????

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.3.3  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @3.3    5 years ago
Not true. He has suggested several solutions to work together, as seen in his 10-point plan that he proposed while running for president.

The topic is the 'humanitarian crisis' talked about in the seeded article, NOT a Trump plan from Sept. 2016. NONE of the 10-points address that crisis. 

BTW, follow the link in your source: 

It's enlightening. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.3.4  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @3.3.1    5 years ago
Tacos - the only thing that the Libs look at regarding Trump is what they can block next.

Actually, I was the one that brought Trump's EO to the table, remember 1st? I didn't say a word about blocking it, I talked about them not fulfilling it. Big difference...

I've also address the codes that you cited in length, one of which Trump also cited in his EO. It seems that neither of you can figure out how to enact it 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.3.5  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @3.3.3    5 years ago
The topic is

What are you, the Topic Police?

My comment was a direct response to something you wrote. The upshot of it being that you made a claim that wasn't true and now you can't admit that you were wrong.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.3.6  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @3.3.5    5 years ago
My comment was a direct response to something you wrote. The upshot of it being that you made a claim that wasn't true and now you can't admit that you were wrong.

Actually the upshot is that you desperately need to pretend that Trump's 10 points are solutions the issue in the topic. They aren't and you just can't admit that you are defecting. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Guide
3.3.7  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @3.3.6    5 years ago
Actually the upshot is that you desperately need to pretend that Trump's 10 points are solutions the issue in the topic. They aren't

Oh? I mean the title of the article I linked to - a PBS article btw - call it "Trump's 10-point immigration plan?" So, if those aren't Trumps proposed solutions to solving the immigration problem, what would you say they are? Ingredients in a cookie recipe? "10-point immigration plan" is a pretty funny title for a cookie recipe.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
3.3.8  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @3.3.7    5 years ago
So, if those aren't Trumps proposed solutions to solving the immigration problem, what would you say they are?

Well since NONE of the 10 points address the crisis of families seeking asylum, I'd say they're worthless. Any more questions? 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4  charger 383    5 years ago

    "the person being smuggled is NOT guilty of a crime under that statute 1st."

charge them with conspiring to violate the law then

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4    5 years ago
charge them with conspiring to violate the law then

I'm pretty sure that you have to KNOW you're violating a specific law in order to conspire to violate that law. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1    5 years ago

they know they are not supposed to cross our border

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.2  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.1    5 years ago
they know they are not supposed to cross our border

Yet merely crossing the border is NOT what Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324 is about. 

BTW, when they step foot into the US, they are doing so in plain sight and turning themselves in. That can hardly be considered 'alien smuggling' [a SECRET movement of people].  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.3  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.2    5 years ago

they are just trying to get in here and have US taxpayers give then stuff.   and if that's not illegal, why can't I just walk into a government warehouse and take what I want? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.4  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.3    5 years ago
they are just trying to get in here and have US taxpayers give then stuff.

Actually, most of them are just trying to BECOME taxpayers. BTW, we give tons of free stuff to people all over the world. 

and if that's not illegal, 

How can accepting free stuff be illegal? 

why can't I just walk into a government warehouse and take what I want?

Because there are laws against it...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.5  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.4    5 years ago

       "BTW, we give tons of free stuff to people all over the world.'    do they deserve and appreciate it?  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.6  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.4    5 years ago

   "Because there are laws against it"  

but laws against just coming across the border is not important?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.7  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.4    5 years ago

   " How can accepting free stuff be illegal?"

So, we should just give stuff that taxpayers paid for to foreigners?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.9  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.5    5 years ago
do they deserve and appreciate it?

It depends on who they are. Some very well off countries think that they are entitled to it. 

I'm positive that after a family crosses the border they deserve to be treated humanly and appreciate being treated so. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.10  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.6    5 years ago
but laws against just coming across the border is not important?

Straw man. 

Did I ever claim that charger? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.11  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.7    5 years ago
So, we should just give stuff that taxpayers paid for to foreigners?

Like I said, we do it all the time. 

BTW, you know that you can post more than one sentence at a time right? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.12  Dulay  replied to    5 years ago
I remember democrats said if people that wanted to come here legally they were going to have to pay fees and if you were here illegally you would have to pay fines and fees you don't hear about that anymore.

Actually MUVA, they were saying that about people who want to STAY here.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.13  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @4.1.2    5 years ago

No, they are not doing it in plain sight and turning themselves in.  "Some" are, many are not.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.14  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.10    5 years ago

NO rules against using a "strawman" or whatever you want to call it to prove my point

If foreigners can just cross the border and get what they want, how is that different than me, a taxpayer, going in a government warehouse and helping myself to what I want?

I deserve that stuff more than people who won't stay in their country  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.16  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.9    5 years ago

just because they didn't like it where they belonged, why should they think they should get to come here? 

Should a US citizen living in a bad part of the US just get to walk into somebody's nice house and say I am moving in here and I claim asylum?  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
4.1.17  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @4.1.11    5 years ago

       "BTW, you know that you can post more than one sentence at a time right?"

Yes, most of time I prefer to work on one point at time rather than big posts 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.18  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @4.1.14    5 years ago
NO rules against using a "strawman" or whatever you want to call it to prove my point

A straw man is a fallacy and never makes a point. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.19  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @4.1.13    5 years ago
No, they are not doing it in plain sight and turning themselves in.

So you don't believe the content of your own seed? 

"Some" are, many are not.

Opinion. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.20  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @4.1.19    5 years ago

Like noses, everyone has one.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.21  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @4.1.20    5 years ago
Like noses, everyone has one.

Some of which are inherent and others are fabricated. 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.22  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @4.1.21    5 years ago

Some of which are understood and accepted and others that stare into the dark.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.23  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @4.1.22    5 years ago

Noses stare? 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.24  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  1stwarrior @4.1.13    5 years ago

Exactly! The majority of people who do not live on or near our Southern border have no clue just how wide open the deserts really are. There are more holes in than pasta colander that they can sneak through unseen.  The left is so fixated on numbers of "apprehensions", they have no clue nor do they care about the sheer numbers that continue to get into this country without getting caught!  I am not insensitive to the plight of those legitimately wanting a better life for themselves and/or their families, but a line has to be drawn somewhere somehow. My maternal grandparents emigrated to this country legally from Mexico in the early 1920's. They worked hard and were productive citizens who had no use for those who came here illegally, never became citizens, or legal residents and solely milked the system for free benefits. I do not advocate mistreating those who come here illegally, but we do have laws. We need to streamline the interview processes for alleged asylum seekers and keep it to a minimum. Those with children should be given priority. Any that do not meet the criteria should be shipped back to their country/countries of origin. I realize the above is simplistic and probably only scratches the surface, but it is a place to start.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.25  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.24    5 years ago

And, if you look at it quite simply, the two laws in existence on Naturalization are exactly that - quite simple.  Apply LEGALLY, follow the steps provided and this too shall come to pass.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.26  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @4.1.23    5 years ago

When on your back or reclined.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.27  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @4.1.26    5 years ago

Tunnel vision? 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.28  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Dulay @4.1.4    5 years ago

Accepting free stuff from this country can be illegal if accepted under false pretenses, i.e. being here illegally to begin with.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
4.1.29  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @4.1.27    5 years ago

Without glasses - yes.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.30  Dulay  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.28    5 years ago
Accepting free stuff from this country can be illegal if accepted under false pretenses, i.e. being here illegally to begin with.

First of all, most of the people we are talking about are asylum seekers, who are NOT illegals. Secondly, you have to pretend that those giving them 'free stuff' are somehow unaware that they are asylum seekers. That's a stretch. 

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.1.31  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Dulay @4.1.30    5 years ago

Deflection = Fail!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.32  Dulay  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.31    5 years ago
Deflection = Fail!

How is my comment a deflection Ed? Please be specific. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
4.1.33  Dulay  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.1.31    5 years ago

512

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5  charger 383    5 years ago

a wall is what is needed

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
5.1  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5    5 years ago
a wall is what is needed

How does that mitigate the immediate humanitarian crisis described in the seed? 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.1  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @5.1    5 years ago

only problem is they want to come here and take our stuff and act like we have to give them anything

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
5.1.2  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5.1.1    5 years ago

That's not an answer to my question. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.3  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @5.1.2    5 years ago

they should not be a burden to US taxpayers who have far more important things to have our  money spent on

what do you want to give up for them? 

anything they get takes away from what citizens deserve from their taxes  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.4  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @5.1.2    5 years ago

their problems should not be our problems

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
5.1.5  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5.1.3    5 years ago

You're STILL not answering my question charger. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
5.1.6  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @5.1.5    5 years ago

 unfortunately it is not up to me and you would not like it.   

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6  charger 383    5 years ago

No foreigner should be able to cross the border and say "here I am, let me in,  take care of all my wants and pay for it all and be nice to me"  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
7  charger 383    5 years ago

why are foreigners more important than US citizens?  

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
7.1  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  charger 383 @7    5 years ago

Because the Dems have no backbone and they need new voters.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
8  charger 383    5 years ago

I have important things to do tomorrow and have to leave this discussion now

 
 
 
Rmando
Sophomore Silent
9  Rmando    5 years ago

What's needed is not just a wall but a major change in policy. If it wasn't for the lure of amnesty these people wouldn't drag their kids through hell and pay coyotes to bring them here. The left or the establishment right for that matter doesn't care what happens to them on the way here because all they see is cheap labor and future voters, legal or not. They have the same attitude the slave ship captains in Roots did about whether to hard pack or soft pack a ship. All they care about is how much they profit from it, either in cheap labor or political power.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
10  seeder  1stwarrior    5 years ago

384

The last line is perfect.  It is for all to see and to honor - respectfully.
 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
10.1  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @10    5 years ago
The last line is perfect.  It is for all to see and to honor - respectfully.

That is the last line in one of the MANY speeches given during the dedication and the line quoted is taken out of context. Misrepresentation deserves no honor or respect.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Participates
10.1.1  seeder  1stwarrior  replied to  Dulay @10.1    5 years ago

Only you could take that out of context.  Why don't you take a poll to see how many see it as you do - not really stating what it states?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
10.1.2  Dulay  replied to  1stwarrior @10.1.1    5 years ago
Only you could take that out of context.

Actually, the creator of the meme took the last line of the speech out of context. If you use a historical reference, you really should check the HISTORY.

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Guide
10.2  Split Personality  replied to  1stwarrior @10    5 years ago
Depew’s remarks were likely in part reference to an ugly event that took place earlier that year, known as the Haymarket Riot or the Haymarket Affair. What began as a labor rights movement incidentally involving many German immigrants eventually escalated to “widespread hysteria directed against immigrants” after an unknown person detonated an explosive device during a labor demonstration. Shootings then broke out, leading to civilian casualties:

Like most memes, it has been "de-contextualized" from the original intent.

But I have to say, boy could Depew talk, that speech was lonnnnnnnnnnnnng. The speech can be found here, starting on page 37, ending on page 59

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Guide
10.2.1  Dulay  replied to  Split Personality @10.2    5 years ago
Like most memes, it has been "de-contextualized" from the original intent.

All that's important to them is that it fit their ideological agenda. Facts and history be damned...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
11  charger 383    5 years ago

Comment number 100 is build the wall now

 
 

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