We Shouldn’t Disgrace Ourselves

  
Via:  john-russell  •  one month ago  •  39 comments

We Shouldn’t Disgrace Ourselves
What President Trump and Rudy Giuliani are doing here is shocking abuse of power and national betrayal. In any normal world or by any normal standard, this would lead rapidly to the President’s resignation.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Over the last 24 hours, in emails and tweets, I’ve heard people say some version of ‘Hey, it’s a twofer. Maybe this new scandal will take out Trump and Joe Biden!’

Let me say that there are lots of reasons for Democrats not to support Joe Biden – ideology, mass incarceration, age, it not being his time, politics, just qualities as a campaigner. But even though these comments are semi-flippant this is a temptation Democrats should resist. This really is no different from claims that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster or Barack Obama was born in Kenya, though obviously there’s a racist component to the latter canard. In terms of being in touch with reality or not, it’s no different. Democrats are prone to being manipulated in this way. They really need to resist the urge, just as Clinton’s opponents should have resisted rightwing and Russian efforts to sow divisions among them in 2016.




Again, this is not about supporting Joe Biden. But the claims that Giuliani and Trump are making aren’t just driven by blackmail or abuses of government power. They’re ridiculous on their face. This has all been scrutinized. Not only is there no evidence. The timeline doesn’t even add up.

This is like a redo on becoming pawns in a Russian intelligence operation in 2016. What President Trump and Rudy Giuliani are doing here is shocking abuse of power and national betrayal. In any normal world or by any normal standard, this would lead rapidly to the President’s resignation. Obviously that won’t happen. Because anything the President does will be backed or excused by his supporters in Congress.

But any sort of wink-and-a-nod passive benefit from this kind of criminal conduct is a disgrace. There’s no other way to put it. It’s not about Joe Biden. It’s about maintaining a democratic republic if we can keep it.

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JohnRussell
1  seeder  JohnRussell    one month ago
this is not about supporting Joe Biden. But the claims that Giuliani and Trump are making aren’t just driven by blackmail or abuses of government power. They’re ridiculous on their face. This has all been scrutinized. Not only is there no evidence. The timeline doesn’t even add up.
 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one month ago

TPM is a far left progressive website, so this article is just more left wing lies and propaganda.

The Bidens' actions in Ukraine need to be thoroughly investigated

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    one month ago
The Bidens' actions in Ukraine need to be thoroughly investigated
=================================================================================== This really is no different from claims that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster or Barack Obama was born in Kenya, though obviously there’s a racist component to the latter canard. In terms of being in touch with reality or not, it’s no different. 
 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    one month ago
TPM is a far left progressive website, so this article is just more left wing lies and propaganda.

I doubt if you even know what the controversy is about. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    one month ago
 This really is no different from claims that Hillary Clinton killed Vince Foster or Barack Obama was born in Kenya, though obviously there’s a racist component to the latter canard. In terms of being in touch with reality or not, it’s no different.

If you're going to use a quote from someone or an article, you really should note the source JR.

Or, failing that, consider using something you actually thought of yourself.  You know, along the lines of original thought and not regurgitated bullshit of others.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.4  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.3    one month ago

You are a comedian, lol. 

The quote is from the seeded article, so obviously there is a source attached and available. 

I give my own opinion about many things, including this. Trump should be impeached for it, and all the other crap he pulls on a daily basis. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    one month ago

We do know that Vince Foster did not commit suicide.

We do know that Obama himself, not his publicist, claimed to have been born in Kenya.

We do know that Biden and son meddled in the affairs of Ukraine.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/promotional-booklet/

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.5    one month ago
We do know that Vince Foster did not commit suicide. We do know that Obama himself, not his publicist, claimed to have been born in Kenya.

Td9U.gif

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.7  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    one month ago
You are a comedian, lol.  The quote is from the seeded article, so obviously there is a source attached and available. 

I know that as I read the entire satire piece.  But my comedic skills are not as good as yours JR and unlike you, even when quotes come from within an article I still source the quote.   

And you know what they say about OPINIONS JR.  They're like assholes and everyone has one (unless of course it's been surgically removed).  The difference being assholes serve a viable and necessary purpose, opinions have no purpose other than to make the opinion writer feel smart and important.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.8  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    one month ago
I doubt if you even know what the controversy is about. 

I seem to know more about than you do. Try harder to keep up and quit quoting snark.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @1.1.7    one month ago

Well, some opinions are based on truth and some are based on bamboozling. I think we all know which one Trumps opinions are based on. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.10  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.9    one month ago

Aren't you trying to bamboozle we Trumpers?

Multiple times a day?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
1.1.11  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.9    one month ago
Well, some opinions are based on truth and some are based on bamboozling.

Need I remind you.....

Russia, Russia, Russia, 

Collusion, Collusion, Collusion,

Mueller, Mueller, Mueller

I could go on, but everything you and the rabid radical left has used to rile the mindless lemming progressives has essentially blown up in your faces making you all look like fools on an almost daily basis.   Everything that has been thrown has been promoted as 'the proof need to impeach Donald Trump', and everything has proved to be a bust with NO THERE THERE.

Get over it JR.  Donald Trump is President and will very likely win reelection for multiple reasons.  The economy, the border, and the continual barrage of bullshit that people are now starting to realize is just that....  bullshit being tossed by desperate and despicable people.

 
 
 
lib50
1.1.12  lib50  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.5    one month ago

WTF?  Vince Foster DID commit suicide, perhaps you should post your 'proof'. 

Obama NEVER claimed to be born in Kenya, wtf was that snopes link about. 

“You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.” 

Now I'd love a reaction to Trump trying to strong arm the new leader of Ukraine into investigating Biden.  Can dems ask our allies to get dirt on Trump?   Can we dig deeper into the Trump spawn's shady dealings along with this?  Do you care about Trump's misdeeds and lies?   If so, why do you continue to defend and pretend he doesn't?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.1.13  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.8    one month ago

Greg, you are a birther. That in itself will cause reasonable people to question what you "know". 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
1.1.14  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.13    4 weeks ago

I have never claimed to be a birther, I just question Obama's nativity story and who his real father was.

The publicist originally wrote it as he submitted the copy to her. Of course it was cleaned up later for public consumption.

Obama's history is very murky and dirty, and it had nothing to do with his race, but the people he associated with.

bookbio.jpg

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.1.15  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.10    4 weeks ago

Trump has already done that.

 
 
 
Ronin2
1.1.16  Ronin2  replied to  lib50 @1.1.12    4 weeks ago
Now I'd love a reaction to Trump trying to strong arm the new leader of Ukraine into investigating Biden.

Same reaction to Biden strong arming Ukraine. Oh wait, that doesn't count does it. He has the all important D behind his name.

Can dems ask our allies to get dirt on Trump?

The Obama administration already did that with Ukraine, or has the left already forgotten?

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/440730-how-the-obama-white-house-engaged-ukraine-to-give-russia-collusion

Can we dig deeper into the Trump spawn's shady dealings along with this?

Remember the Mueller investigation into all things Trump including his family, businesses, and everyone even remotely associated with him? Enough said.

Do you care about Trump's misdeeds and lies? 

Obviously no more than the left does about anyone on the lefts' misdeeds and lies.

Ukraine has been a pawn for both parties; with the tax payers footing the bill on the payoffs.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.1.17  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1    4 weeks ago

Joe Biden withheld, or threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine over corruption among holdovers from the previous Russia backed regime and their AG's "reluctance" to investigate the oligarchs and their cronies even in the AG's own office.

President Trump, just admitted at the UN, this morning, that he too withheld $400 million in military aid to Ukraine because of corruption.

Trump, in remarks to reporters at the United Nations on Tuesday, confirmed that he held up the aid but said he did so to fight corruption

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-admits-he-halted-aid-to-ukraine-to-fight-corruption_n_5d8a2971e4b0c2a85cb1ac09?yptr=yahoo

 
 
 
1stwarrior
1.1.18  1stwarrior  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.1    4 weeks ago

LOL -

256

 
 
 
Heartland American
1.2  Heartland American  replied to  JohnRussell @1    one month ago

The democrat party has been a disgrace toAmerica since around 1968.  

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
1.2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Heartland American @1.2    4 weeks ago

The R party has been also but have taken it to a new height over the past few years.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2  It Is ME    one month ago

Is the Possibility that Ol' Joe extorted a government for his son's benefit, not more worrisome to you ?

What does Hunter Biden know about exploration, production, processing, transportation, and final sale of hydrocarbons’ anyway ?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
2.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  It Is ME @2    one month ago

Hunter Biden probably used his name to get a position on the board of a Ukranian company, and was very well paid.  This appears to represent a conflict of interest for his father, who was vice president of the United States at the time. 

Joe Biden sought to have a corrupt prosecutor in Ukraine removed , AS PART OF HIS DUTIES AS VICE PRESIDENT. 

Viktor Shokin had much bigger issues than the corruption case against Mykola Zlochevsky. Almost immediately after he was appointed, he started to cause almost irreparable harm to Ukraine’s legal system.

For starters, he failed to prosecute any prominent members of the Yanukovych regime or anybody in the current government. He constantly blocked reform to Ukraine’s broken legal system. He was in charge of implementing the 2014 law on prosecution which the European Union had asked Ukraine to do for years.

The law aimed to reduce to role of prosecutors who “were absurdly superior to judges in the Soviet legal system that persisted in post-Soviet Ukraine” according to Atlantic Council . It also called for a reevaluation of all prosecutors in order to weed out the more corrupt and incompetent ones. Shokin manipulated the process so that the old system mostly remained the same and minimal, ineffective changes were implemented.

He was the largest obstacle to judicial reform in Ukraine. It wasn’t just Joe Biden calling for his ouster, it was the United States government and the European Union.

Steven Pifer, a career foreign service officer who was ambassador to Ukraine under President Bill Clinton, told Politifact that “”virtually everyone” he knew in the U.S. government and virtually all non-governmental experts on Ukraine “felt that Shokin was not doing his job and should be fired. As far as I can recall, they all concurred with the vice president telling Poroshenko that the U.S. government would not extend the $1 billion loan guarantee to Ukraine until Shokin was removed from office.””

The European Union also called for him to be fired and celebrated his removal. “This decision creates an opportunity to make a fresh start in the prosecutor general’s office. I hope that the new prosecutor general will ensure that [his] office . . . becomes independent from political influence and pressure and enjoys public trust,” said Jan Tombinski, the EU’s envoy to Ukraine, in a statement at the time.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/joe-biden-ukraine/

When Joe Biden called for the firing of the prosecutor it wasnt because of his son , it was because it was the stated position of the US government and the European Union. The prosecutor was corrupt related to other cases and the US did not want to give more money to a country with a corrupt judiciary. 

One can say that Biden was the wrong person to bring that message, as he had a son involved in Ukranian business at the time. 

But this is hardly a scandal that a jackass like Trump should be trying to make into a mountain. And even if it were to be a "mountain" , Trump asked a foreign government to meddle in our election, and used his personal attorney Giuliani as part of the scheme. Giuliani is not a US government official, he is a private Trump lackey.  What the hell is he doing trying to get Ukraine to effect our election?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @2.1    one month ago

Joe Biden sought to have a corrupt prosecutor in Ukraine removed , AS PART OF HIS DUTIES AS VICE PRESIDENT. 

Meddling and interfering in the internal affairs of another country is certainly not one of his duties as VP.

And once again....Trump did not ask Russia to meddle in our election, and any meddling Russia did on her own had no impact on the results.

 
 
 
lib50
2.1.2  lib50  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.1    one month ago
Meddling and interfering in the internal affairs of another country is certainly not one of his duties as VP. And once again....Trump did not ask Russia to meddle in our election, and any meddling Russia did on her own had no impact on the results.

[Deleted]   TRUMP ABSOLUTELY DID ASK RUSSIA TO HELP HIM IN THE ELECTION.  And enough of this fake concern about Biden.   Trump is currently doing worse and you pretend he isn't and defend when you can't deny.   But stop the LIE that Trump isn't working with Russia, we can still see and hear it with our own fucking eyes and ears.

 
 
 
MUVA
2.1.3  MUVA  replied to  lib50 @2.1.2    one month ago

There is no proof Trump is working with the Russian's. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
2.1.4  Greg Jones  replied to  lib50 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

You're making stuff up as usual. You can't cite one credible instance of Trump asking Russia for help.

That remark about the 30.000 emails was a joke intended to mock Hillary.

However, the Russians did indeed hack the emails that were on that server, which she thought she had deleted.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
2.2  r.t..b...  replied to  It Is ME @2    one month ago
What does Hunter Biden know

Good question. If this about the Biden connection it requires serious investigation. If this is about the current administration undermining the candidacy of his top competitor, it also requires a serious investigation. We either adhere to the accountability function given our Congress or we give it up to the executive branch. This may become a crossroads moment and we should all hope that we follow the established Constitutional guidelines.

 
 
 
It Is ME
2.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  r.t..b... @2.2    4 weeks ago
If this about the Biden connection it requires serious investigation. If this is about the current administration undermining the candidacy of his top competitor, it also requires a serious investigation.

If Trump had said what Joe had said about getting someone fired in a different country, impeachment hearings would be in full swing right now.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3  XDm9mm    one month ago

Yet another TPM Trump diatribe.   Is their entire day devoted to anything and everything rabidly anti-Trump?  Well, if one visits their web page, the answer would be pretty much so.

Oh, JR, you neglected to recognize this minor point in the head mast of what you posted:

Please note the last word, OPINION.
If any are unsure of exactly what OPINION entails, I happily provide the following:

o·pin·ion

/əˈpinyən/

noun

  • 1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge :

Source:  https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?showuninstallsurvey=1&dsp=0&3in1=0&installsource=nag&schemaver=1.0.0.0&year=2015&hp=0&source=nag&machinelocation=244&cmpgn=ignite&locale=en_us&hsimp=yhs-ext_onb&geo=us&ssdcat=321&vendor=none&vendorsrc=chrome&oslocale=iso:usa&osvers=10.0&ver=3.7.0.12&oslang=iso:eng&os=windows&sw=0&templatecat=sbu_w_1000_5039_n360dsp_retail&cdest=nag&chn=1015260&version=22.18.0.213&tb=0&o=ds&p=opinion%20definition&prt=ngc&schemacat=sbu_w&olpchannel=retail&tpr=111&doa=2019-09-07&guid=710c3a8a-3770-4175-b3e6-d448a82e3a4a&hspart=symantec&installstatus=new&doi=2019-09-07&type=cr_ds_ignite_wk36_2019&param1=710c3a8a-3770-4175-b3e6-d448a82e3a4a_2019-09-07_cr&param2=ds_nag_ignite&param3=ngc_22.18.0.213_wk36_2019&param4=1015260

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @3    one month ago

You sure do like dictionaries. I will give you links to some good ones later. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    one month ago
You sure do like dictionaries. I will give you links to some good ones later. 

Have no fear, I have them.   I simply use them to educate you continually as you appear to have a penchant to confuse opinions and rumors with fact.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1.2  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  XDm9mm @3.1.1    one month ago
I simply use them to educate you continually as you appear to have a penchant to confuse opinions and rumors with fact.

Here's a fact for you. Major news outfits are reporting that Trump asked the president of Ukraine to work with his private lawyer Giuliani to "investigate" his political rival Joe Biden. That is an impeachable offense. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
3.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.2    one month ago
Here's a fact for you. Major news outfits are reporting

Wow....   Ground shaking news.

Here's a fact for you JR.  Those "Major news outlets" you speak of have as much if not more vitriolic hatred for President Trump than you do.  How many retractions have the print media and network and cable news outlets been forced to make?

And hell, Biden himself in an interview with the Atlantic admitted threatening the Ukrainian PM to fire the PROSECUTOR investigating his son, or the funds they desired would be held back.  You really should try to investigate a little before you go off the Hate Trump rails again.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
4  Sean Treacy    one month ago

 Why, do you think, the American government was urging the Ukranians to investigate Paul Manafort in 2016?  Might it possibly have something to do with the 2016 election?

 
 
 
Heartland American
4.1  Heartland American  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    one month ago

But that’s different.  It’s ok when Obama and Democrats do it. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
4.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Heartland American @4.1    4 weeks ago

It is not okay for either side to do it.  It is also not okay to let it go on simply because the other guy did it first.

 
 
 
r.t..b...
5  r.t..b...    one month ago

Whistle-blower laws were enacted for one purpose...to prompt investigations into possible wrongdoing. Accountability is essential. Allow the Congress to do it's job, let the facts speak for themselves and let the results be commensurate with the offense. At this point, all the conjecture and pontificating is just that. But to not allow the Congress to investigate properly, i.e. allowing access to all pertinent records and the ability to call all those involved to testify, is more damning and dangerous to our system of governance the the incident itself. 

 
 
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