Intel officials say ISIS could regroup after U.S. 'betrayal' of Kurds in Syria

  
Via:  perrie-halpern  •  2 months ago  •  90 comments

Intel officials say ISIS could regroup after U.S. 'betrayal' of Kurds in Syria
"They are all going to be killed or detained after we betrayed them," an ex-CIA officer said. "Killed with weapons we gave to the Turks."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


By   Ken Dilanian and Dan De Luce


WASHINGTON — A sustained Turkish military operation against U.S.-backed Kurdish forces in Syria —   which President Donald Trump appears to have permitted   — would vastly increase the threat to Americans from the Islamic State militant group, which remains intent on attacking the West, current and former intelligence officials tell NBC News.

The immediate concern, officials say, is what will happen with the 12,000 ISIS fighters currently being guarded by   the American-backed Kurds . The ISIS prisoners are the   world's largest concentration of terrorists . If those fighters are set free, officials fear a replay of what happened in Iraq between 2010 and 2013, when the core group who founded ISIS were released or escaped from detention after U.S. forces left the country.

Some of the very people who broke out of Iraqi prisons helped turn ISIS into a movement that not only seized territory in Iraq and Syria, but also orchestrated and encouraged terrorist attacks in Europe and the United States.

Asked what would happen if ISIS fighters escape and pose a threat elsewhere, Trump told reporters Wednesday, "Well they are going to be escaping to Europe, that's where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes."

Trump also said the U.S. was "taking some of the most dangerous ISIS fighters out. Two U.S. officials confirmed to NBC News late Wednesday that the two U.K. men known as “the Beatles” have been taken into U.S. military custody after the Turkish incursion posed a security threat to their detention, as first reported by the   Washington Post .

“The Beatles” are accused of having participated in the ISIS executions of Western hostages, including American journalist James Foley. A DoD official confirms “two high value ISIS individuals” were moved from Syria. The Pentagon negotiated the transfer with the SDF to ensure the “odious individuals are secure.”

The official also said the two are "being held in U.S. military custody pursuant to the law of war."

More broadly, current and former officials say, a large Turkish military incursion into northern Syria will have the effect of removing the single greatest source of counterterrorism pressure against ISIS — a Kurdish force that has been crucial to defeating and containing the terror group.

Asked about the risks, U.S. intelligence officials chose their words carefully Wednesday, not wanting to say anything publicly that appears to criticize Trump's policies. But they did not dispute what one of the top counterterrorism officials in the government told NBC News last month —   that ISIS remains a dangerous threat , and that reduction of counterterrorism pressure on the group would "set the conditions for potential reemergence in a very powerful way."

"They are absolutely still a viable external operational threat globally," the official, who chose not to be identified, said.

Just days before Trump ordered U.S. troops to withdraw from the border region of northern Syria, a bipartisan team appointed by Congress, the Syria Study Group, issued a   report   warning that an American pullout would take the pressure off the terrorists.

"There's ample evidence ISIS is still very much active, it has access to tremendous resources, its brand still has international appeal," said Dana Stroul, co-author of the Syria Study Group report and a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy think tank.

"We know that ISIS is looking for opportunities to reconstitute and certainly the lifting of pressure on ISIS is likely to provide the organization with that opportunity."

The   report   said that ISIS had lost its grip on territory in Syria and Iraq but had "morphed into an insurgency with the will, capability, and resources to carry out attacks against the United States."

Apart from ISIS, al Qaeda-linked groups and other extremists are active in Syria, taking advantage of the chaos of the country's civil war, according to the report.

"Areas of Syria have become safe havens for al Qaeda and its fellow travelers and home to the largest concentration of foreign terrorist fighters since Afghanistan in the 1990s," the report said.

Current and former officials also expressed frustration over what they see as a profound betrayal of the Kurdish force — which fought under the rubric of the Syrian Democratic Forces — that lost thousands of men fighting to defeat the ISIS caliphate on behalf of the United States.

"I've worked directly with the SDF and had many fighters from the group I grew to trust with my life," a former CIA officer told NBC News. "Now, I realize they are all going to be killed or detained after we betrayed them — killed with weapons we gave to Turkey."

Tom Donilon, who was President Barack Obama's national security adviser, told Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC, "We have given a green light to the Turks to come and fight our allies. … It's a real stain on the reputation of the United States."

Some analysts see it differently, pointing out that U.S. backed Kurdish forces are linked to the PKK, a Kurdish military group that has been designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. and the European Union. Turkey has been fighting the group for decades, they say, and there was always going to be a day of reckoning, unless the U.S. planned to keep troops in Syria forever.

The former CIA officer said in response: "They trusted us and believed us. If we didn't intend to honor our promise, we should not have made it."

The White House declined to comment, but referred NBC News to a previous statement by Trump:

"Turkey has committed to protecting civilians, protecting religious minorities, including Christians, and ensuring no humanitarian crisis takes place — and we will hold them to this commitment. In addition, Turkey is now responsible for ensuring all ISIS fighters being held captive remain in prison and that ISIS does not reconstitute in any way, shape, or form. We expect Turkey to abide by all of its commitments, and we continue to monitor the situation closely."


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Thrawn 31
1  Thrawn 31    2 months ago

The gist of all of this is that we totally fucked the Kurds.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    2 months ago

Actually the gist is that not only did we F up the Kurds, but we will reep what we sow. Welcome home American ISIS terrorists. 

 
 
 
WallyW
1.2  WallyW  replied to  Thrawn 31 @1    2 months ago

The immediate concern, officials say, is what will happen with the 12,000 ISIS fighters currently being guarded by   the American-backed Kurds . The ISIS prisoners are the   world's largest concentration of terrorists . If those fighters are set free, officials fear a replay of what happened in Iraq between 2010 and 2013, when the core group who founded ISIS were released or escaped from detention after U.S. forces left the country.

Why in the world would the Kurds release the prisoners? Can't our other "allies" help out with guard duty?

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.2.1  It Is ME  replied to  WallyW @1.2    2 months ago
Why in the world would the Kurds release the prisoners? Can't our other "allies" help out with guard duty?

We shoulda shipped ALL OF THEM over to Guantanamo bay !

oh …. wait ….. Guantanamo type prisons are a NO-NO for the "Left" !

I guess the "Left" really does want someone else to watch over the "Feared" terrorists. Maybe one of the "Other" countries can do that ? jrSmiley_97_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.2  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  WallyW @1.2    2 months ago

Wally,

They are not going to release them. Their own remaining fighters in the region will, since they are no longer being watch, because the Kurds have to fight for their lives with Turkey. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
1.2.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @1.2.1    2 months ago

OK, we don't have enough room in Guantanamo for over 10,000 prisoners and it would have cost us a fortune. Meanwhile, we had Kurds doing it for us for free, very far away from us. 

oh …. wait ….. Guantanamo type prisons are a NO-NO for the "Left" !

What does that even mean?

I guess the "Left" really does want someone else to watch over the "Feared" terrorists. Maybe one of the "Other" countries can do that ?

No other countries are going to go into a war zone to watch these prisoners. I am not sure what you don't get. The situation that was created by the pullback, is irreversible unless we move back in and apparently that isn't going to happen.

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.2.4  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @1.2.3    2 months ago
No other countries are going to go into a war zone to watch these prisoners.

So Trump is right in "Forcing" other countries to toe-the-line for a real "Change".

I'd like to see that "Change"....wouldn't you ?

oh …. wait ….. Guantanamo type prisons are a NO-NO for the "Left" ! 
What does that even mean?

Come on Perrie. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

I know even You heard Obama and his compatriots saying Guantanamo MUST be shut down, as Guantanamo "Makes for more Terrorists" ! jrSmiley_87_smiley_image.gif

But the "Left" is now worried about some out-of-the-way TERRORIST Jail being compromised, and saying the U.S. should stick around because of that possible compromise ? jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

You don't think those Out-of-the-way Terrorists jails do the same thing ?

 
 
 
Krishna
1.2.5  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @1.2.4    2 months ago

So Trump is right in "Forcing" other countries to toe-the-line for a real "Change".

The Draft-Dodger-in-Cheif has already done so much to fuck up America with his "real change"-- so now you want him to go off half-cocked (and, I may add, half assed) and start trying to fuck up the rest of the planet?

 
 
 
It Is ME
1.2.6  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @1.2.5    2 months ago
has already done so much to fuck up America with his "real change"

I'm doing fine/better.

My Family is doing fine/better.

My Friends are doing fine/better.

Your life .….. Fucked up ?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
1.2.7  Thrawn 31  replied to  WallyW @1.2    2 months ago

They were guarding them, not us, but now that we have allowed the Turks to start a genocide against the Kurds, they have other priorities. This is 100% our, no, Trump's fault. Donald Trump, the best friend of terrorists. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
2  Split Personality    2 months ago

 
 
 
bbl-1
3  bbl-1    2 months ago

The gist of all of this is-----Turkey, Russian and Assad have won. 

In three years the Trump has accomplished what America's adversaries could never accomplish. 

Don't matter.  The stable genius with the infinite wisdom is still selling Chinese made MAGA hats. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
3.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  bbl-1 @3    2 months ago

What is sad is that they won without trying. They won by just calling the "master negotiator" and sounding mean. The most pathetic thing in the world. Trump truly sucks at everything except conning retards. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
3.1.1  bbl-1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3.1    2 months ago

I disagree.  I believe this is the Trump plan all along.  I also believe there is much more to the Khashoggi murder.  It may be tied together.  Trump is a 'puppet'.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
3.1.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  bbl-1 @3.1.1    2 months ago

Nah, he is just retarded. 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.3  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3.1.2    2 months ago

Guys can we stick on the topic, please... 

As a New Yorker, I for one am worried about terrorism... and there are now over 10,000 hardened ISIS prisoners who will be coming home.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    2 months ago

It's all just beyond comprehension Perrie.  Our national security has been compromised by the release of these ISIS fighters, and at the voting booth.

What part of "Uphold and defend.......against all enemies foreign and domestic" do our GOP friends not grasp?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3.1.5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.4    2 months ago

Fly, 

I am utterly baffled and so angry I can't even put it into words. 

What part of "Uphold and defend.......against all enemies foreign and domestic" do our GOP friends not grasp?

I don't know what has happened to this country. In all fairness, there has been push back by many members of the GOP, but apparently it is not enough. Apparently "Uphold and defend.......against all enemies foreign and domestic", will only matter when it comes home to roost, and we will have lost our allies in the region.  Watching the local Kurd families is heartbreaking after all they have done for us.

 
 
 
WallyW
3.1.6  WallyW  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    2 months ago

So the Kurds are simply going to release them?

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.7  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3.1.2    2 months ago

He is both.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.8  Krishna  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3.1.2    2 months ago
Nah, he is just retarded. 

Probably both-- the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief is a retarded puppet!

(What he needs is a good old-fashioned Minny Rally")

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.5    2 months ago

The big question to everyone on Newstalkers....... WHY NOW?

Why at this point in time did Trump, without talking to the DOD, or NSA, decide now was the time to pull American forces out?

This operation did exactly what it was suppose to get done, very inexpensively by comparison to other alliances of recent years.  Our only obligation was to provide the Kurds the weapons, training and to keep Turkey on the sidelines.    Why now was it so important to pull out of this alliance?  To save Trump's hotel in Istanbul?  To deflect attention to the bad news for Trump coming out of the Ukraine call?  WHY NOW?

 
 
 
Ronin2
3.1.10  Ronin2  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    2 months ago

You think they are all US citizens? Or are you saying our border and immigration security sucks? 

Most of them are from Iraq, Turkey, or Syria. The bigger concern for the Kurds is them rejoining the fight in Syria. Currently they are at the flank of the Kurdish resistance.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/fighting-rages-turkey-steps-assault-kurdish-forces-191010175849098.html

The SDF has long called for the international community to take the prisoners, who include 2,000 foreign fighters, off its hands, saying it does not have the capacity to prosecute the captives or hold them in prison long term. SDF officials say there are 10 such detention facilities spread across the vast region the groups controls east of the Euphrates River. Described by some as "pop-up prisons", the facilities are housed in former schools and old government buildings, including in Raqqa, Deir Az Zor and Hasakah provinces. Up to 70,000 women and children, relatives of ISIL fighters, are also being held at the sprawling al-Hol camp, according to the United Nations .

So the world is not willing to take back their 2,000 ISIS/ISIL prisoners. What else is new from NIMBY?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/isis-beatles-uk-islamic-state-united-states-custody-trial-trump-a9149801.html

Two British men accused of being part of a notorious Isis cell dubbed “the Beatles” and which were filmed executing hostages , have been transferred into US custody to be tried in America .

The men, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Amon Kotey, had been among hundreds of suspected Isis figures being held in Kurdish-operated jails inside Syria. 

Speaking at the White House on Wednesday, Mr Trump defended the decision to agree to allow Turkey’s military operation – which kicked off earlier in the day – claiming Turkey and Syria had been fighting each other “for centuries”.

Without naming them, he also said a number of important prisoners had been transferred out of that area.

“We are taking some of the most dangerous Isis fighters out and we’re putting them in different locations where it’s secure,” he said, while criticising European nations for not dealing with Isis suspects who were its citizens. 

So we are doing the heavy lifting for our "allies" yet again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/02/foreign-isis-fighters-in-syria-should-face-war-crimes-tribunal

Foreign Islamic State fighters held in overcrowded prisons and lawless refugee camps in north-east Syria – including about 60 Britons – should be put on trial there as part of an international effort to de-radicalise the region, according to senior local officials.

Politicians and soldiers from the Kurdish-led region said they needed western help to deal with the prisoners locally, including setting up a recognised war crimes tribunal, amid warnings that Isis could otherwise rebuild.

Images emerged this week of the insanitary conditions in makeshift prisons where people of more than 50 nationalities were held in packed cells, sometimes 20 to a room. Meanwhile, local politicians admitted they had lost control of the refugee camps to Isis radicals.

Dr Abdulkarim Omar, the de facto foreign secretary of the self-styled Autonomous Administration of North and East   Syria , and the co-chair of its foreign affairs committee, said: “We call for the establishment of an international tribunal to prosecute those fighters here in our region.

“Those people, the Isis criminals, committed their crimes in our region and against our communities. Evidence, proof and witnesses against them are in this region, and we can prosecute them.”

Omar, speaking before pictures of the prison interiors   were published in   the Times , admitted his administration was struggling with the postwar legacy. Omar said the region only received “5% of the resources it needs” from the international community to help. Officials repeatedly described the prisons and camps as a “ticking time bomb”.

Estimates of the number of Isis fighters in detention vary. The administration puts the figure at 6,000, including 1,000 foreigners, but others say the true number is double that. Some have been in custody for two or more years without trial after Isis sustained a series of battlefield defeats.

Refugee camps hold in excess of 100,000 people, mostly women and children, with the largest,   the al-Hawl camp , holding more than 70,000.

So the SDF isn't doing that great of a job with the prisoners, nor the 70,000 to 100,000 plus family members that go with them. If this were in the US the Democrats would faint, and call for their immediate release.

This is strictly a case of the world not doing it's damn job. But the US, but Trump, but Trruuummmmppppp!!!!!!

I doubt Turkey wants the job either since part of their reason for entering Syria to set up a safe zone for Syrian refugees that Europe doesn't want.

https://www.apnews.com/66a0b9af4a494b28b99dfbd430d244ac

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey’s president on Thursday threatened to “open the gates” and allow a flood of Syrian refugees to leave Turkey for Western countries unless a so-called “safe zone” is established inside Syria soon in negotiations with the Americans.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in a speech to his ruling party officials, lamented what he described as Turkey being left to shoulder the burden of Syrian refugees alone.

Turkey is determined to create the safe zone inside Syria, along its border with the war-torn country, and was ready to do it alone before the end of the month if there is no agreement with the United States.

“We will be forced to open the gates. We cannot be forced to handle the burden alone,” Erdogan said, reiterating Turkey’s annoyance that past proposals for the creation of the safe zone — envisioned as a place where refugees could be re-settled — has been ignored by Western nations.

“We did not receive the support needed from the world and especially from the European Union, concerning the burden-sharing,” he said.

Turkey opened its borders to Syrians in April 2011 and is currently home to 3.6 million who fled the civil war, now in its ninth year. But as Turkey suffers an economic downturn and rising unemployment, calls among Turks for Syrians to go home are growing.

Hundreds of Syrian refugees have been detained and reportedly forcibly deported to Syria recently , according to accounts by refugees. The Turkish government categorically denies reports of forced deportations.

Turkey reached a deal with the European Union in March 2016 under which Turkey would stem the flow of migrants into Europe in return for funds to help support the refugees and visa-free travel for Turkish citizens. But Erdogan accuses European nations of not keeping to its side of the bargain and has frequently threatened to back away from the deal.

In Brussels, European Commission spokeswoman Natasha Bertaud told reporters that both Turkey and the EU were committed to the deal.

“We trust that we can continue this work in good faith with our Turkish partners,” she said.

She said the EU is “providing substantial support to improve the living conditions and protection standards of Syrian refugees in Turkey. To date, the EU has allocated 5.6 billion euros out of the 6 billion that was agreed, with the remaining balance due to be allocated shortly.”

Again the NIMBY's speak. 6 billion to cover 3.6 million refugees. Small sum, and not nearly enough, to keep them out of sight out of mind.

So what is everyone's solution- besides bashing Trump that is? Every day is world bash Trump day for whatever. That will not fix anything. Trump's problem is he is actually trying to fix things. The world hates that.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.11  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3.1.3    2 months ago

Fox News is reporting that hundreds of ISIS prisoners have now escaped Kurdish prisons are a result the action taken by Neo-Con President:

There is evidence of war crimes being committed, civilians being targeted and ISIS prisoners escaping;

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.12  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Krishna @3.1.11    2 months ago

But we have to defend the Saudis oil refineries...…..  That's more important than the lives of the Kurds or the rise of ISIS/ISIL....

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.13  FLYNAVY1  replied to  WallyW @3.1.6    2 months ago

How about now Wally...…?  Are you convinced?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
3.1.14  Thrawn 31  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.13    2 months ago

They will never be, they are like my dad, hopeless. They could watch Trump shoot their significant other in the head, and if he told them he didn't do it, they would say he didn't do it. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1.15  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Thrawn 31 @3.1.14    2 months ago

No remaining credibility Thrawn..... I've got another one saying it's more important to protect the Saudi refineries to maintain stable oil prices.  They put the stability of oil prices over the lives of those that bled to defeat ISIS/ISIL.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.15    2 months ago

You think that's rich....I read a comment from someone on NT this morning that says all the Kurds are Maoist, atheist commies, so who cares if the Turks take them out.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.17  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.10    2 months ago

You seem to be unaware of attacks such as these:

On May 14,2019, the Houthis carried out a drone attack that targeted the Saudi East–West Crude Oil Pipeline. ... On August 26, 2019, Houthi rebels fired a total of 10 Badr-1 ballistic missiles at the Jizan airport in southwest Saudi Arabia. The retaliatory attack led to dozens of killings and injuries.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.1.18  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.16    2 months ago

Thank you, Senator McCarthy, and when Turkey finishes with those atheist Maoist commies, it can attack China and have Turkey changed into a glass-floored parking lot.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
3.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  bbl-1 @3    2 months ago
"The stable genius with the infinite wisdom is still selling Chinese made MAGA hats."

Bet he wouldn't put a tariff on them.

 
 
 
MrFrost
4  MrFrost    2 months ago

Fox news poll out today, 51% support impeachment and removal. I think shitting on the Kurds was the last straw for many republicans. 

 
 
 
devangelical
4.1  devangelical  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago

totally agree. congress needs to impeach that fuck up while the blood in the water is still fresh. there is no way any trump ass licker in the senate can defend this action by POS/POTUS. I have 2 nephews that fought along side the kurds in iraq, and they are fucking livid. no more involvement in the ME? looks like israel is on it's own now. tough shit.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1.1  Krishna  replied to  devangelical @4.1    2 months ago
totally agree. congress needs to impeach that fuck up while the blood in the water is still fresh. there is no way any trump ass licker in the senate can defend this action by POS/POTUS. I have 2 nephews that fought along side the kurds in iraq, and they are fucking livid. no more involvement in the ME? looks like israel is on it's own now. tough shit.

Not just the Kurds .and Israel. All of our allies-- many who have been allies for years-- now have to worry.

They can be deserted by the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief on the spur of them moment.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
4.1.2  Raven Wing  replied to  Krishna @4.1.1    2 months ago
They can be deserted by the Draft-Dodger-in-Chief on the spur of them moment.

That is because Trump is the "Chosen One" and if he can so easily throw his loyal staff members under the bus to save his own a$$, what can any of our allies expect from him, no matter how loyal they have been to the US, or for how long they have helped defend our troops and other countries.

I don't think for one millisecond that Trump would not throw one of his own kids, or even his wife, under the bus to save his own skin. And if they think he won't, they may have a very rude awakening one day. 

The only life that matters to Trump is his own. 

JMOO

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
4.1.3  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Krishna @4.1.1    2 months ago

 So when are you picking up arms and going to Syria putting your life on the line 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
4.1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Freedom Warrior @4.1.3    2 months ago

I've done my time at the point of the spear...... I know what it means to have allies.

Can you say yes to both of those statements.  I'm betting no.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
4.1.5  Freedom Warrior  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @4.1.4    2 months ago

[delete]

 
 
 
Ozzwald
4.2  Ozzwald  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago
Fox news poll out today, 51% support impeachment and removal.

I read other polls show support for impeachment up to 58% now.  FoxNews polls generally emulate Rassmussen polls and are on the pro right side.

 
 
 
devangelical
4.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2    2 months ago

add 15 points to that Rasmussen poll and consider it was done by asking mostly conservatives

 
 
 
Krishna
4.2.2  Krishna  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2    2 months ago
Rassmussen polls

Most polls at least make an effort to be accurate.

But over the years I have noticed that one is different-- Rasmussen always gives much more favourable numbers to Republicans/Conservatives (I always ignore Rasmussen now-- they're just not accurate)

 
 
 
Ronin2
4.3  Ronin2  replied to  MrFrost @4    2 months ago

So we can count on your support to impeach the next Democratic president when they do something the majority doesn't like in some poll?

Is that the new standard? That should promote stable governments.

That is what we have elections for. If you don't like Trump vote him out of office. Of course that would mean getting an electable Democratic candidate out of the insane exploding clown car that is running ever further left.

If Trump is so detested it shouldn't be hard to find someone with a pulse to beat him.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
4.3.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Ronin2 @4.3    2 months ago
So we can count on your support to impeach the next Democratic president when they do something the majority doesn't like in some poll?

Sure, knock yourself out.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
5  dave-2693993    2 months ago

Let's see, we trained and supported the Afghani "Freedom Fighters" and then abandoned them. That turned out well. The Taliban is still the beggest threat to security inb that region.

I wonder what these abandoned Kurds will become?  

Our record of dangling the carrot then abandoning the most recent ones doing our dirty work continues.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
5.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  dave-2693993 @5    2 months ago

Dave,

This is the second time we have done this to the Kurds. Bush 1 did this to them, too. 

btw.. Reagan trained the Mujahadeen which became the Taliban, because of his paranoia about Russia. We created our own monsters. And after watching Chernobyl, now I know he can't claim that he cause the collapse of Russia. They rotted out from the inside. We invent our own history as much as they do.

 
 
 
dave-2693993
5.1.1  dave-2693993  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    2 months ago
Mujahadeen

I decided against that term. Until that was put together with my post I didn't think many would recognize and connect the dots.

Reagan used the term "Freedom Fighters" and I can not find a video of it. UVA has a good source to his library and cataloged speeches, I just could not find this one.I don't want to get too deep in to Reagan and Soviet Union discussions and as there are tons worthy of their own discussions. 

This is the second time we have done this to the Kurds. Bush 1 did this to them, too. 

Yes, Perrie, you are right about that.

JMO, this go around is at least 1 magnitude different/worse.

The Kurds threw everything they had at this effort. Arguably, they are the ones, who physically on the ground beat ISIS. We dangled our usual carrots and now it is AMF and my version of AMF does NOT include the words "My Friend".

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.1    2 months ago
now I know he can't claim that he cause the collapse of Russia. They rotted out from the inside

I believe the fall of the USSR was due to some degree to their endless war-- with ongoing YUGE casualties-- in Afghanistan.

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.3  Krishna  replied to  dave-2693993 @5.1.1    2 months ago
The Kurds threw everything they had at this effort. Arguably, they are the ones, who physically on the ground beat ISIS. We dangled our usual carrots and now it is AMF and my version of AMF does NOT include the words "My Friend".

They've taken ayuge number of casualties-- and Trump has stabbed them in the back.

The guy is the worst kind of sleaze-- betraying allies for fought and died for a mutually beneficial  cause. 

Impeachment & removal from office is too good for him-- but hopefully at least that will happen.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.1.4  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Krishna @5.1.2    2 months ago

Part of it.   Don't forget the flight to Red Square by Mathias Rust

https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/the-notorious-flight-of-mathias-rust-7101888/

I give a most of the credit to Pope John Paul, Lech Walesa and Gorbachev for ending the Cold War.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.1.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Krishna @5.1.3    2 months ago
"Impeachment & removal from office is too good for him-- but hopefully at least that will happen."

The Senate will prevent it, but I would venture that his chance of re-election might evaporate somewhat.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
5.1.6  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.5    2 months ago
his chance of re-election might evaporate somewhat.

not even a little bit.

the crazier the left gets the less likely they are to keep the house.   

cheers :)

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.1.7  Raven Wing  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @5.1.5    2 months ago
I would venture that his chance of re-election might evaporate somewhat.

That would depend on how much Trump can depend on how much McConnell and his wife can talk her family  into helping, and help from China and SA in election meddling now that Trump is making nice with them. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.1.8  Thrawn 31  replied to  dave-2693993 @5.1.1    2 months ago
The Kurds threw everything they had at this effort

They did. Sure we supplied them and provided air support as well as JSOC, but the Kurds, especially the Kurdish women (a special hat off to them), were the ones who did the down and dirty work. They were the ones running ISIS out of their positions, they were the ones securing escape routes at Sinjar. They were the ones keeping ISIS prisoners. The Kurds spilled the blood and we took the credit. 

And we fucked them. Pure and simple, Donald Trump threw our most reliable (and relatable) ally in the ME under the bus. The man has absolutely no honor. 

 
 
 
Krishna
5.1.9  Krishna  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @5.1.6    2 months ago

You are wrong.

Cheers.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
5.1.10  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  Krishna @5.1.9    2 months ago
You are wrong.

LOL so ya say...

too funny :)

 
 
 
Krishna
5.2  Krishna  replied to  dave-2693993 @5    2 months ago
I wonder what these abandoned Kurds will become? 

Many will end up dead-- murdered by our"NATO ally" Turkey. 

The rest will do what they've always done-- fiercely fight the Turks and anyone else who tries to exterminate them. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5.2.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Krishna @5.2    2 months ago

We will never be rid of this stain.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.2.2  Raven Wing  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.2.1    2 months ago
We will never be rid of this stain.

This, and the many, many other stains that Trump has smeared on the US and its people. I have to wonder how many of our true allies will trust America and consider the US a viable ally from here on. 

 
 
 
WallyW
5.2.3  WallyW  replied to  Raven Wing @5.2.2    2 months ago

Who else they gonna ally with?  Russia? China?

Why is the left so eager for war?

 
 
 
MUVA
5.2.4  MUVA  replied to  WallyW @5.2.3    2 months ago

I don't know if they are eager for war or just eager to send someone else to war.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
5.2.5  Raven Wing  replied to  WallyW @5.2.3    2 months ago
Why is the left so eager for war?

What does your question and my comment have in common in regards to war?

Nothing. Obviously, you comprehension is somewhat lacking in this case.

 
 
 
dennis smith
5.2.6  dennis smith  replied to  Krishna @5.2    2 months ago

Turkey is an ally of all NATO members not just the US. 

Should we have kept troops there for 1 more year, 5 more years, indefinitely? No answer is perfect but having other NATO members do more of the dirty work would help.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
5.2.7  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  dennis smith @5.2.6    2 months ago

With allies like that, who needs enemies?

 
 
 
Krishna
5.2.8  Krishna  replied to  WallyW @5.2.3    2 months ago
Why is the left so eager for war?

Why is Trump so eager for war?

US To Send 3,000 Troops To Saudi Arabia

The new deployment means that, since May , the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.2.9  Thrawn 31  replied to  WallyW @5.2.3    2 months ago
Who else they gonna ally with?  Russia?

Just did. 

So now not only did fat fuck disgrace our nation by giving a green light for our allies to be slaughtered, he also pushed them firmly into the arms of our enemies. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
5.2.10  Thrawn 31  replied to  MUVA @5.2.4    2 months ago

How many men did you abandon on the battlefield? 

 
 
 
WallyW
6  WallyW    2 months ago
cb101219dAPR20191011054509.jpg
 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
6.1  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  WallyW @6    2 months ago

They both were/ are wrong. Never underestimate your enemy. You think we would have learned that from 'Wilson's War".

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
6.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  WallyW @6    2 months ago

I honestly wonder if you think that makes you look smart

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh    2 months ago

The Never Ending War party has become really popular on this site. It's so nice to finally see a bipartisan love tryst.  Nothing brings America together like ribbons and dead young men and women.

It's really nice the government gives you a flag when your kid dies. 

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1  Krishna  replied to  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh @7    2 months ago
The Never Ending War party

You are obviously referring to the Republican Party".Trump is such a typical neo-Con-- Lying about wanting peace, but constantly engaged in military provocations:

US To Send 3,000 Troops To Saudi Arabia, The new deployment means that, since May, the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

Sending more Americans kids to die-- all for the purpose of lining Trump's pockets. Yup-- typical neo-Con! jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @7.1    2 months ago
Sending more Americans kids to die-- all for the purpose of lining Trump's pockets.

Really?  Exactly how is Trump lining his pocket?

And while you might disapprove, he is bringing as many troops as possible home and out of combat zones.   As to Saudi Arabia, he is sending the requisite resources to stop any further assault by Iran.  Or would you prefer that Saudi Arabia and Iran get into a real shooting war?  You do realize that would very possibly bring the global economy to it's knees don't you?

Truthfully, Trump inherited a shit show in South Asia and the Middle East.  The only smart thing to do is withdraw as many resources as possible from actual shooting galleries and let the opponents kill each other and try to prop up as best as possible the quasi stable areas and hope for the best.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.2  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.1    2 months ago
Really?  Exactly how is Trump lining his pocket?

Don't you ever read the news?

He's a typical Neo-Con:

Defying Congress, Trump sets $8 billion-plus in weapons sales to Saudi Arabia, UAE

The Trump administration informed congressional committees that it will go ahead with 22 military sales to the Saudis, United Arab Emirates and Jordan, infuriating lawmakers by circumventing a long-standing precedent for congressional review of major weapons sales.

That's $8 billion--not million!

 
 
 
†hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh
7.1.3  †hε pε⊕pレε'š ƒïšh  replied to  Krishna @7.1    2 months ago
You are obviously referring to the Republican Party"

I'm actually in part referring to members like yourself who selectively advocate for wars of their choosing. As long as I've been a member of this forum, you've been a supporter of various wars and intervention.

Just stop....buy a gun and go fight your own goddamn wars.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.4  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.1    2 months ago

And while you might disapprove, he is bringing as many troops as possible home and out of combat zones.   

Nope-- he's actually sending more troops into a combat zone:

US To Send 3,000 Troops To Saudi Arabia

The new deployment means that, since May, the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

You are very unaware re: there actual situation there! 

As to Saudi Arabia, he is sending the requisite resources to stop any further assault by Iran.

Wrong again! Actually its going to support the Saudis genocidal war directly across their border...in Yemen:

America is likely complicit in war crimes in Yemen. It's time to hold the US to account

Saudi-led forces have deliberately targeted civilians since the war’s early days – and US officials have done little to stop it

S ince   Saudi Arabia   and its allies intervened in Yemen’s civil war in March 2015, the United States gave its full support to a relentless air campaign where Saudi warplanes and bombs hit thousands of targets, including civilian sites and infrastructure, with impunity. From the beginning, US officials insisted that American weapons, training and intelligence assistance would help the Saudis avoid causing even more civilian casualties.

But this was a lie meant to obscure one of the least understood aspects of US support for Saudi Arabia and its allies in Yemen: it’s not that Saudi-led forces don’t know how to use American-made weapons or need help in choosing targets. They have   deliberately targeted civilians   and Yemen’s infrastructure since the war’s early days – and US officials have recognized this since at least 2016 and done little to stop it.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @7.1.2    2 months ago
Really?  Exactly how is Trump lining his pocket?
Don't you ever read the news?

He's a typical Neo-Con:

Defying Congress, Trump sets $8 billion-plus in weapons sales to Saudi Arabia, UAE

The Trump administration informed congressional committees that it will go ahead with 22 military sales to the Saudis, United Arab Emirates and Jordan, infuriating lawmakers by circumventing a long-standing precedent for congressional review of major weapons sales.

That's $8 billion--not million!

Holy hot shit bat man....   Donald Trump got out of the real estate business and has now become an arms manufacturer and dealer.

Or is your premise hyperbole and he's not "lining his pocket" as you proclaim?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.6  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @7.1.4    2 months ago
And while you might disapprove, he is bringing as many troops as possible home and out of combat zones.    Nope-- he's actually sending more troops into a combat zone:

Not quite.  Saudi Arabia is not the "combat zone" you believe it to be.   Our presence actually counters the Iranians.

US To Send 3,000 Troops To Saudi Arabia

The new deployment means that, since May, the US has sent an additional 14,000 members of the armed forces into the region. 

You are very unaware re: there actual situation there! 

Actually, I'm very aware of the situation there.  Unlike the vast preponderance of people posting here, you included, I have actual experience there and in many other areas of South Asia (Afghanistan) and the Middle East and North Africa.

As to Saudi Arabia, he is sending the requisite resources to stop any further assault by Iran. Wrong again! Actually its going to support the Saudis genocidal war directly across their border...in Yemen:

If Saudi Arabia wanted to conduct a genocidal war against Yemen, they have the resources to do it.  All they do is try to do what other nations do, stop terrorist activities against them by fighters basing in other countries.   The FACT that those terrorists, in contravention to all norms and treaties base their fighters in civilian areas, effectively using their own people as human shields is not the fault of a country defending itself.

America is likely complicit in war crimes in Yemen. It's time to hold the US to account

Saudi-led forces have deliberately targeted civilians since the war’s early days – and US officials have done little to stop it

S ince Saudi Arabia and its allies intervened in Yemen’s civil war in March 2015, the United States gave its full support to a relentless air campaign where Saudi warplanes and bombs hit thousands of targets, including civilian sites and infrastructure, with impunity. From the beginning, US officials insisted that American weapons, training and intelligence assistance would help the Saudis avoid causing even more civilian casualties.

But this was a lie meant to obscure one of the least understood aspects of US support for Saudi Arabia and its allies in Yemen: it’s not that Saudi-led forces don’t know how to use American-made weapons or need help in choosing targets. They have deliberately targeted civilians and Yemen’s infrastructure since the war’s early days – and US officials have recognized this since at least 2016 and done little to stop it.

You can believe whatever pabulum you're spoon fed by whatever sources you want to believe, but when you gain the personal experience in the area I have, come on back and we can discuss the situation.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.7  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.5    2 months ago
 Donald Trump got out of the real estate business and has now become an arms manufacturer and dealer. Or is your premise hyperbole and he's not "lining his pocket" as you proclaim?

Its called "insider trading"-- google it if you don't know what the term means.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
7.1.8  Raven Wing  replied to  Krishna @7.1    2 months ago
Sending more Americans kids to die-- all for the purpose of lining Trump's pockets. Yup-- typical neo-Con!

Trump is one of the most heartless Commander In Chief of our American Military lives for his own personal gain who ever sat behind the desk in the Oval Office. 

It is not only our allies that Trump is betraying.

JMOO

 
 
 
dennis smith
7.1.9  dennis smith  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.6    2 months ago

Some would complain about Trump if he had a hangnail as they have nothing of substance to talk about.

 
 
 
dennis smith
7.1.10  dennis smith  replied to  Krishna @7.1.7    2 months ago

Nonsense. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1.11  FLYNAVY1  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.10    2 months ago

And there are many here that have ignored Trump's violation of the taking money or favors from foreign countries, violations of the emoluments clause, and his failure of his oath of office believing these matters are not of substance worth talking about.

 
 
 
Tessylo
7.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.1.11    2 months ago

He's been enriching himself and his family through this 'presidency' since day 1.  His only goal.  

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.13  MUVA  replied to  Tessylo @7.1.12    2 months ago

no

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1.14  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @7.1.13    2 months ago

He's been enriching himself and his family through this 'presidency' since day 1. 

....Yessssss....!!!!!

 
 
 
MUVA
7.1.15  MUVA  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.1.14    2 months ago

no

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.1.16  FLYNAVY1  replied to  MUVA @7.1.15    2 months ago

Then you need to pay closer attention.....  The truth is there if you want to see it.

  • Air Force crews laying over in his hotel in Scotland.
  • Every trip he takes to his property to play golf at Mar-A-Lago
  • The VP staying at his Scotland property vs. places closer to where he needs to attend. 
  • Now having the G7 at his Doral property...... How much more blatant of a violation of the emoluments clause do you need?
 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
8  Buzz of the Orient    2 months ago

There's something to be said about just leaving all those countries alone and let them kill each other off.  As Ebeneezer Scrooge said in A Christmas Carol, it will reduce the excess population.  Of course the only problem is that they're not happy until they can kill everyone, including us. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
8.1  Sunshine  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @8    2 months ago
There's something to be said about just leaving all those countries alone and let them kill each other off.

I feel that way. 

 
 
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