FOX News Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'

  
Via:  flynavy1  •  2 weeks ago  •  60 comments

FOX News    Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my career'
"The Kurds are sticking by us," the Special Forces source stressed to Fox News. "No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


A member of U.S. Special Forces serving alongside the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in Syria told Fox News' Jennifer Griffin on Wednesday they were witnessing Turkish atrocities on the frontlines.

“I am ashamed for the first time in my career,” said the distraught soldier, who has been involved in the training of indigenous forces on multiple continents. The service member, whom Griffin described as "hardened," is among the 1,000 or so U.S. troops who remain in Syria.

“Turkey is not doing what it agreed to. It’s horrible,” this military source on the ground told Griffin. “We met every single security agreement. The Kurds met every single agreement [with the Turks]. There was no threat to the Turks -- none -- from this side of the border."

President Trump  said the U.S. would pull its troops from northeast Syria on Sunday, a move considered a blow to the U.S.-backed Kurds by many analysts and political observers. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan later announced a military operation  in the region  that he said was to "neutralize terror threats" and establish a "safe zone."

At least seven civilians have been killed in strikes in northeastern Syria since the assault began on Wednesday, according to activists and a war monitor. Turkey later announced that its ground forces had invaded the region  to fight the Kurds.

“This is insanity,” the concerned U.S. service member said. "I don’t know what they call atrocities, but they are happening.”

Griffin called it one of the hardest phone calls she has ever taken.

U.S. military officials told Fox News the president ordered the military not to get involved in the Turkish strikes, after the Kurds requested air support.

Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria are guarding thousands of captured Islamic State (ISIS) fighters, now without the help of the U.S. in the area.

The Special Forces member said the Kurds have not left their positions guarding detainees. In fact, “they prevented a prison break last night without us," the military source on the front line said. “They are not abandoning our side [yet]."


"The Turks are hitting outside the security mechanism," according to the source, who said the Kurds are "pleading for our support."

The American troops are doing “nothing," the source lamented. "Just sitting by and watching it unfold.”

Troops on the ground in Syria and their commanders were “surprised” by Trump's withdrawal decision Sunday night.

Of the president’s decision, the source said: “He doesn’t understand the problem. He doesn’t understand the repercussions of this. Erdogan is an Islamist, not a level-headed actor.”

“The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone,” said the longtime member of Special Forces. “It’s a shame. We are just watching. It’s horrible.”


“This is not helping the ISIS fight," the military source said.

Many of the ISIS prisoners "will be free in the coming days and weeks," he predicted.

Trump told reporters Wednesday afternoon that the captured terrorists were "really bad people who should go back to Europe."

"We said to various countries, we'd like you to take your people back. Nobody wants them, they're bad," Trump said, saying that "maybe the Kurds [...] if not them, Turkey" would deal with the ISIS fighters.

"The Kurds are sticking by us," the Special Forces source stressed to Fox News. "No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."


American troops were disappointed in the decisions being handed down by senior leaders, the source on the ground added.

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FLYNAVY1
1  seeder  FLYNAVY1    2 weeks ago

How can this possibly be "Making America Great Again"?

Or are you Trump lovers going to be listing this under "Fake News" and run away from the facts?

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
1.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    2 weeks ago

That craphole isn’t part of America. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
1.1.1  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Dean Moriarty @1.1    2 weeks ago

So sad that so many don't understand the concept that has been America

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.2  Krishna  replied to  Dean Moriarty @1.1    2 weeks ago
That craphole isn’t part of America. 

I wonder if our Kurdish allies feel that their homeland is a "craphole"?

(Or perhaps I should say "ex-allies"-- as they now know the U.S. government in not to be trusted?)

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
1.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @1    one week ago

Tom somebody else cranked up something other than their mouths.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

This makes me sick to my stomach.  I Originally thought that Nikki Haley should wait until 2024 to throw her hat in the ring.  I've now changed my mind.  I think the Republicans should back her as THE Republican candidate for POTUS in 2020.  

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
2.1  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    2 weeks ago

All in with your there Buzz.  It is going to be damn near impossible for the US to remove this stain.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.1  Krishna  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @2.1    2 weeks ago
All in with your there Buzz.  It is going to be damn near impossible for the US to remove this stain.

There are several negative aspects to this, In addition to Trump being complicit in genocide, what potential allies will ever trust the U.S.again? 

The Kurds that "we had their back"..which in fact we did. 

Until a sleaze like Trump stabbed them in the back!

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2    one week ago

How does that make any sense . Is she gonna kick Chinese ass.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2    one week ago

She has the smarts to do it intelligently, and the determination to carry it through. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.2  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.1    one week ago

I doubt it.  She is more likely going to suck up to the DC establishment just like all the others.

 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.3  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.2    one week ago

She had the balls to challenge Trump, and to be genuinely forceful in her duties at the UN.  From what I've read about her, she stands her ground.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.4  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.3    one week ago

Challenged Trump? She bailed out.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
2.2.5  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Freedom Warrior @2.2.4    one week ago

Maybe that was the intelligent thing to do - seems she wasn't the only one who did.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2.2.6  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2.5    one week ago

Well that same argument has been put out there for those going along with the fukwads in the DC establishment.

 
 
 
Kavika
3  Kavika     2 weeks ago

His behavior isn't surprising at all. He mocks John McCain and the parents of an American soldier that dies saving his buddies. 

We do know one thing for sure the 5 generations of the Trump family in the US have NEVER served in the military. 

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
3.1  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Kavika @3    2 weeks ago
5 generations of the Trump family in the US have NEVER served in the military. 

The selfish would never contemplate military service as it's for "suckers".

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
4  seeder  FLYNAVY1    2 weeks ago

Trump is now calling Turkey's operation against the Kurds "A bad idea."

https://abcnews.go.com/International/operation-northeast-syria-started-turkish-president-announces/story?id=66158615&cid=clicksource_76_null_headlines_hed

"I have gotten him to stop from virtually the first day I was in office, but they wanted to fight and that's the way it is. And they've done it for so long," Trump said.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
5  seeder  FLYNAVY1    2 weeks ago

Did all our Trump supporters call in sick today, or is it that they can't come to support this move by Trump either?

Freedom Warrior.....?   C4P.....?  Hello...... Anybody out there?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
5.1  Ozzwald  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5    2 weeks ago
Did all our Trump supporters call in sick today, or is it that they can't come to support this move by Trump either?

They're waiting for the latest talking points to try and explain this away or blame it on Obama.

 
 
 
Ronin2
6  Ronin2    2 weeks ago

Since everyone wants to ignore reality.

1) Are US forces in Syria there legally under international law? It is a simple yes or no answer.  If your answer is anything but no. Provide the National Security Council Resolution # and link. Hint, it doesn't exist. Syria never invited the US, France, etc there. The only outside forces in the country are Russia, China, and Iran with permission. No, the war on terror doesn't count.

Syria has asked US, French, and Turkish forces to depart.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/un-syria-demands-us-french-and-turkish-forces-withdraw-immediately

Syria's foreign minister on Saturday denounced US, French and Turkish forces operating in his country as "occupying forces" and demanded that they leave immediately.

Addressing the UN General Assembly in New York, Foreign Minister Walid al-Moualem also called on Syrian refugees to come home, AFP reported, even though the country's war is now in its eighth year.

Moualem (AFP)

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had said in his remarks to the General Assembly on Friday that   the international community and UN agencies must make the return of refugees to Syria "a priority".

Moualem, who also serves as deputy prime minister, said the foreign forces were on Syrian soil illegally, under the pretext of fighting terrorism, and "will be dealt with accordingly."

"They must withdraw immediately and without any conditions," he told the assembly.

Moualem insisted that the "war on terror is almost over" in Syria, where more than 360,000 people have died since 2011, with millions more uprooted from their homes.

He said Damascus would continue "fighting this sacred battle until we purge all Syrian territories" of both terror groups and "any illegal foreign presence."

2) France has about 200 of their special forces operating with the Syrian Kurds. Where the hell are they. Especially since France and Britain stated early they would protect the Kurds when the US left.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/09/britain-france-agree-to-send-additional-troops-increase-syria-us-withdrawal-uk/

In a major victory for U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security team, the United Kingdom and France have agreed to send additional forces to Syria to pick up the slack as U.S. troops withdraw, sources familiar with the discussions told Foreign Policy .

Britain and France, the only other U.S. partners that still have ground forces in Syria, will commit to a marginal 10 to 15 percent troop increase, a U.S. administration official confirmed. Other countries may send small numbers of troops as well, but in exchange the United States would have to pay, the official said.

Neither the timeframe for the deployment nor the exact number of additional troops is clear, the official said, adding that “overall we have been disappointed” in efforts to persuade U.S. allies to commit additional resources to the ongoing fight against the Islamic State terrorist group in Syria.

In addition to Britain and France, Italy is close to a decision on whether or not to send additional forces, and a number of Balkan and Baltic states are “almost certain to send handfuls of soldiers each,” according to a separate source with knowledge of the discussions.

Trump announced the United States would completely withdraw from Syria in December 2018, a move that prompted the resignation of then-Defense Secretary James Mattis and other top officials. However, he has since partially reversed course , agreeing to leave a small U.S. footprint in the country.

While it is a success for the administration, the marginal increase of U.K. and French troops likely won’t completely fill the gap left when U.S. forces leave. The U.S. footprint in Syria is expected to drop from an estimated 2,000 troops to just 400; the exact number of British and French forces in the country is unknown, but the second source estimated each country currently has just 200 to 300 troops there.

Why isn't anyone blasting France and Britain for not honoring their commitment. Did the French troops there get lost? We haven't heard France screaming for help as their special forces fight Turkish military along side the Kurds.

3) Seems the entire world doesn't give a shit about the Kurds; but Trruuummmmpppppp, actually followed through on a campaign promise and withdrew US forces from an unwinnable proxy war in Syria. Sorry Obama/Hillary, Assad will not be ousted- unless Putin gets sick of him. Outside of screaming at Trump NATO has done nothing more than issue a rebuke; and the EU is upset- what else is new?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/eu-demands-turkey-halt-syria-operation-as-nato-chief-urges-restraint/

EU chief Jean-Claude Juncker on Wednesday demanded Turkey halt its military operation against Kurdish fighters in northern Syria, telling Ankara a political solution was the only way to end the Syrian conflict.

He spoke as Turkish forces launched an assault on Kurdish positions , with air strikes and explosions reported near the border.

Juncker told the European Parliament he recognized Turkey had “security concerns” along the border, but he warned the military action would not lead to a “good result.”

“I call on Turkey as well as the other actors to act with restraint and to stop operations already, as we are speaking, under way,” Juncker said.

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg on Wednesday urged Turkey to show “restraint” in its operation against Kurdish forces in Syria, warning that the fight against the Islamic State group should not be put at risk.

After NATO member Turkey launched an assault aimed at curbing the SDF, Stoltenberg acknowledged that Ankara had “legitimate security concerns” but called for a measured response.

“NATO has been informed by Turkish authorities about the ongoing operations in Northern Syria. It’s important to avoid actions that may further destabilize the region, escalate tensions, and cause more human suffering,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference in Rome with Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, in remarks released by his office.

“I count on Turkey to act with restraint and to ensure that any action it may take in northern Syria is proportionate and measured.”

Yes, I am sure that will show Turkey. Oh wait, they still went ahead with the attack?! Well NATO chief did say Turkey had "legitimate security concerns". Guess they don't trust those Kurds wanting to carve up the ME to make a Kurdistan.

Then there is the big  EU3.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-eu-france/france-britain-germany-to-condemn-turkish-offensive-in-syria-idUSKBN1WO1ZS

France, Britain and Germany are set to issue a statement strongly condemning Turkey’s offensive in northeastern Syria, France’s European affairs minister said on Wednesday.

Turkey launched a military operation against Kurdish fighters in northeast Syria on Wednesday just days after U.S. troops pulled back from the area, with air strikes and artillery hitting YPG militia positions around the border town of Ras al Ain.

The move comes after a U.S. decision to withdraw from the region leaving Turkey to launch an offensive against Kurdish militants and rattling allies, including France, one of Washington’s main partners in the U.S.-led coalition fighting Islamic State.

“France, Germany and Britain are finalizing a joint statement that will be extremely clear on the fact that we condemn very strongly and firmly what has been reported,” Amelie de Montchalin told parliament’s foreign affairs committee answering a question on the Turkish offensive.

Capitals were still deciding at what level the statement would be issued, a diplomatic source said.

So no troops coming to the Kurds aid- despite their promise? No getting NATO to threaten Turkey being removed? No sanctions even? Just a strongly written letter that they do not know how they will deliver. That is the EU in a nutshell. No US to do the heavy lifting and they curl up into the fetal position.

4) How about Russia, surely they will demand Turkish troops pull out of Syria.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-russia-analysis/for-putin-turkish-move-into-syria-a-chance-to-ramp-up-middle-east-role-idUSKBN1WP2NB

In a phone call with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan before the operation against U.S.-allied Kurdish fighters, Russian leader Vladimir Putin, an ally of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, made clear he hoped the incursion would be limited in time and scale, the sources said.

“The sooner this conflict situation is over, the better for everyone,” said Andrei Klimov, a senior pro-Putin lawmaker in Russia’s Senate.

“I really hope our Turkish partners do everything to avoid even a chance conflict on the ground with Syrian government forces and even more so with Russian soldiers.”

For Russia, it’s a delicate balancing act. It has pledged to use its air power to help Assad retake all the territory he has lost in Syria’s eight-year-old war and has repeatedly stressed the importance of the country’s territorial integrity.

But it is also working with Turkey and Iran to push for a peaceful settlement it hopes will eventually reshape Syria’s constitution and show that Russia can make peace as well as war.

Critics say Moscow’s efforts are a sham, aimed at yielding a fake political settlement to re-legitimize Assad and attract funds from the European Union and the Gulf to rebuild Syria.

Wait, Putin being nice to Turkey? WTF, oh wait, that is right- Putin is trying to get Turkey as an ally- and have them defect from NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/13/europe/turkey-russia-missiles-nato-analysis-intl/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/world/europe/turkey-russia-missiles.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/08/turkey-proceeds-with-russian-missile-system-deal-despite-us-nato-warnings.html

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-sending-more-weapons-nato-turkey-lawmaker-vows-s-400-missiles-arrive-1449212

Seems that Turkey is playing both sides against the other quite effectively.

5) Giving Bush Jr and Obama a free pass. Walking free and clear are Bush Jr and Obama who created this damn mess to begin with. Bush Jr's ill advised invasion of Iraq and ouster of Saddam created ISIS/ISIL. Obama's moronic insertion of US troops into Syria and to give arms, training, logistical support, and fight along Kurds and "moderate" Sunni factions under the war of terror was simply illegal. There was no hiding the real reason Obama wanted Assad out. Training, arming, and fighting alongside the Kurds was a good way to keep Syria from winning the bloody civil war. Too bad he didn't take into account Syria inviting Russia, China, and Iran in- giving those countries ports, and air and military bases. Obama never secured the Syrian government's permission to be there. He never even tried to get a UN Security Council Resolution, as he knew both Russia and China would block it. 

Blame Trump. That is all the chicken hawks have. Anyone wanting to join the Kurds in fighting, they eagerly welcome all comers. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
6.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Ronin2 @6    2 weeks ago
Since everyone wants to ignore reality.

Somebody checked his spam folder...

 
 
 
Krishna
6.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Ozzwald @6.1    2 weeks ago
Somebody checked his spam folder...

LOL!

)but you may be right :-)

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7  XDm9mm    2 weeks ago

For all of the arm chair warriors who feel we need to stay in Syria, I suggest the following.

Go there yourself. 

To get there, I’d suggest you fly into Amman Jordan (Queen Alia International airport) via Emirates airline.  You will have biometric retinal scans done when going through customs, and make sure you can provide a local place to contact you.  They demand it.

Emirates coach surpasses every other airline by a mile.  Great food, friendly and catering personnel and comfortable seating.  If you can afford it, go business.  You’ll fly in the lap of luxury.

I’d suggest you stay at the Marriott in Amman since they have a great multi lingual and friendly staff plus, they provide a shuttle from the airport.  They also have great security.  Armed guards at the single point of vehicle entry gate and interior security similar to what you endure at the airport.  Magnetometer gates and luggage x-rays will be the most obvious.

The breakfast buffet is exceptional and is not expensive, about 10 or 15 bucks.  Great fresh fruits, eggs and omelets made to order, sweet breads pastries and cheeses.  The eggs benedict are great (the “ham” is made from turkey…  it’s the Muslim thing after all).

Now, to get to your dream vacation spot, find your way to “Highway 15” west towards Syria.  When you get to Highway 10, follow that north towards Iraq.  (It will become 10/40 before the border.)  Highway 10 will continue into Iraq and become Highway 1.  Follow highway 1 and turn onto Highway 20 towards Qa’Im (don’t be concerned, most paved roads are marked in English and Arabic.)  When you reach highway 12, turn left (west) towards Syria. 

Use caution at the border or have a local sneak you in.  Most roads actually have security stopping illegal entry into Middle East countries.  (Imagine that!)

Once into Syria, make your way to the NORTH side of the Euphrates River and ask a local to point you in the direction of the Kurds fighting the Turkish forces as you want to volunteer.

In short, put YOUR money and ass on the line you’re so easily asking others to do.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @7    2 weeks ago

Seems like you've been there.  If one goes to Jordan, it's worth taking a side trip to Petra to see some fascinating ancient history.  I've been there.  These are stock photos from the internet.

petra_the_treasury_from_above.jpg?fit=20

11-Jerash-Jordan.jpg

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1    2 weeks ago
Seems like you've been there. 

Yes I have.  However, I didn't drive.  My last sojourn to that area was in a blackhawk.

As to your photos, I've been to both.  I was very lucky when I did.  My 'guide' was a colonel with the security services and we had the distinct pleasure of not needing to make any great hikes from the parking areas.  I guess it's true when they say  rank hath it's privileges!!

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

Yeah, when I was there a car with special royal family licence plates was parked as close as they could to the site.  What was really funny to see was Jordanian kids sitting at a table selling stones they gathered from the ground to the tourists, who if you can believe were buying them when all they had to do was bend down and pick one up from the ground themselves.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
What was really funny to see was Jordanian kids sitting at a table selling stones they gathered from the ground to the tourists, who if you can believe were buying them when all they had to do was bend down and pick one up from the ground themselves.

Ok..   don't laugh.  I was one of those people.  Not for the stone, but simply to help the kids!!  My 'escort' tried to talk me out of it, and then laughed when we got back to the car and I tossed it back into the dirt.

My interactions with the royals was a brief meeting with a certain pilot who I met just before he led a sortie in retaliation for some terrorists burning one of his pilots alive.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7.1.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  XDm9mm @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

Sorry but you DID make me laugh, but actually that was a nice thing to do. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.1.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1.4    2 weeks ago
Sorry but you DID make me laugh, but actually that was a nice thing to do.

I'm glad I brought a smile to your day.

Hell, on my worst day, I had so much more than the vast majority of those people.  

 
 
 
Krishna
7.1.6  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.1    2 weeks ago
If one goes to Jordan, it's worth taking a side trip to Petra to see some fascinating ancient history.

I'm sorry I missed it!

A while back I made a trip to the Middle East. A friend was going there on business and asked if I would come to be her assistant. (It was unpaid but interesting work). After the project was over most of us were able to stay for another week or two, so one of the Israelis suggested we make a trip to either Petra or Egypt. Tough decision-- but we decided to go to Egypt. 

So unfortunately I missed Petra.

Glad I got  to experience Egypt though. (We flew there directly from Israel on a commercial flight. This was before 9/11-- I don't think you can do that anymore)

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.2  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  XDm9mm @7    2 weeks ago

In short, put YOUR money and ass on the line you’re so easily asking others to do.

I'm a little old and a bit too round to do so, but when I wasn't, I did.

The alliance to reduce/eliminate ISIS/ISIL in the region worked.  The Kurds held up their part of the bargain to do the fighting and the bleeding.  Our part was to give them the tools and training to do so, while keeping the Turks on the sidelines.  It was effective too.   Right up to the time Trump gave Turkey the Green light to exterminate the Kurds.  Now the news coming out has that 60,000 civilian Kurdish refugees are on the run from Turkish forces. 

I value every person that has or is wearing an American uniform more so than I do others.  In our all volunteer force of today, they understand that they are paid to put their lives on the line.  The breakup of ISIS/ISIL is/was a goal worth fighting for as they could have found there way to this continent to attack our civilian population.  The Kurd alliance was very valuable, and we have thrown that away for what...... Trump to keep his hotel in Istanbul profitable?  To deflect from the facts coming out of his calls with Ukraine? 

Think it through.  What was such the dire need to announce a pullout now?  Why weren't members of the DoD, or NSA consulted in the decision?  Think it through damn it!

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.1  XDm9mm  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2    2 weeks ago
I'm a little old and a bit too round to do so, but when I wasn't, I did.

Don't let age get in your way.  I didn't.

I'll be 70 in February and I've been going to various garden spots of the world since 2006 (I was a govvie 2004-2006 and based CONUS).  So, you can figure out how old I was.

Think it through.  What was such the dire need to announce a pullout now?  Why weren't members of the DoD, or NSA consulted in the decision?  Think it through damn it!

I have thought it through.  And unlike most posting here, I have personal experience working with the Kurds and numerous other peoples fighting radical Islamic fundamentalists.

The Turks have been fighting the Kurds ( and numerous other groups) for hundreds of years.  Obviously being educated and cognizant of the region, you do remember the Ottoman Empire don't you?

Now, maybe you should consider one other salient point before you rant about Trump and a hotel.  Do you need to be reminded about Incirlik Air Base?   What will our options be if NATO was forced to close that facility and President Erdogan Of Turkey invited his new best friend Putin to replace us?

 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
7.2.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2    2 weeks ago
What was such the dire need to announce a pullout now?

Trump was at his wits end (which is a very short walk) as to what else to get Erdogan and Putin for Christmas, he'd given them just about everything else they'd wanted already. So before he leaves office after losing in a landslide next year, he did the one thing that would make them the happiest which was to pull our troops out and stop protecting our allies in favor of our enemies. I'm sure he'll also spend most of next year pardoning every white collar criminal including Paul Manafort while he leaves anyone who ratted on him like Michael Cohen in jail. He'll probably even try to pardon himself even though the cuffs will be going on January of 2021 as he goes from being an unindicted co-conspirator to being an indicted co-conspirator.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.3  XDm9mm  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2    2 weeks ago
I'm a little old and a bit too round to do so, but when I wasn't, I did.

I neglected to mention this earlier about age.

When I had to get weapons qualified in 2006, at dinner one evening, I was speaking to another grey haired individual getting re-qualified.   It turned out that his first combat experience was in Nam.  He was 72 years old and an active participant in the hunt for bin Laden.  

So, as I noted, don't let your age stand in the way.  It hasn't stopped a large number of us.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
7.2.4  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  XDm9mm @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

We pay a lot of money to Turkey to keep that airbase. Over 50 billion dollars annually. So no, I am not concerned about Putin. Turkey knows that Putin is just as slippery as they are so I don't think they would allow Russian planes to enter their airspace, much less use their base. I think Fly is right. 

And here is the thing. Of all the places that we should be out of, this is not one of them. So one has to ask why?

Obviously being educated and cognizant of the region, you do remember the Ottoman Empire don't you?

Of course, (yes I know you didn't direct that question to me). They invented modern genocide. They slaughtered the Armenians. They actually were the example that Hitler used. Why are they even in NATO? We have plenty of other airbases. 

They were caught giving money to ISIS, too. Are these the people we want to be in bed with?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.5  XDm9mm  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.2.4    2 weeks ago
We pay a lot of money to Turkey to keep that airbase. Over 50 billion dollars annually. So no, I am not concerned about Putin. Turkey knows that Putin is just as slippery as they are. I think Fly is right.  And here is the thing. Of all the places that we should be out of, this is not one of them. So one has to ask why?

Turkey used to be a rational secular nation which was welcoming to essentially any and all.  Erdogan is a Muslim fundamentalist and is making life hard on any and all that do not think like him.

Further, while it looks nice on the surface, our relationship with Turkey since Erdogan has soured quite a bit.  While we still maintain a presence, our operations have been greatly diminished by the host country.  Hell, some elements have already been entirely withdrawn. 

Turkey is a frenemy and not to be greatly trusted.

Now as to the Kurds.  They are considered a terrorist organization by the Turks.  

So, are we to continue our aid to what an actual ally calls a terrorist?   Now THAT'S a great way to make friends and influence people, right?

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
7.2.6  seeder  FLYNAVY1  replied to  XDm9mm @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

Incirlik?  Landed there, bingo fuel a couple of times in the 1980s.  How about the now Russian Naval base at Tartus?  Gave Ivan a port west of the Bosporus.

It would see that the two of us take the the same considerations from different experiences.  How do you stand on the nukes in Pakistan?  Personally I think that is the major reason we are still in Afghanistan.

Take care.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.2.7  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @7.2.4    2 weeks ago
They were caught giving money to ISIS, too. Are these the people we want to be in bed with?

For a long time they did another thing as well. 

When people from various parts of the world wanted to travel to Iraq to join ISIS, there was basically only one feasable route: travel to Turkey, then travel to the Iraqi border and then cross into Iraq (for various reasons it was not practical to cross into Iraq from other bordering countries),

But when they got to the Turkish-Iraqi border, Turkish border guards should've stopped them but didn't-- they gladly waved them through. 

(The U.S. government put pressure on Turkey to close that border but of course they didn't)

 
 
 
MUVA
7.2.8  MUVA  replied to  Krishna @7.2.7    2 weeks ago

 They also came threw Iran's mountains in the first part of the Iraq war crossing around Irbil then to Mosul. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.2.9  XDm9mm  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @7.2.6    one week ago
How do you stand on the nukes in Pakistan?  Personally I think that is the major reason we are still in Afghanistan.

Our concern with Pakistan's nukes is actually immaterial to our continued presence in my view.  That other British FUBAR partitioning India and Pakistan simply ensured that India would be in a position to counter Pakistan.  In other words civility vs tribalism.  And as it turns out a nuke power vs a nuke power.

I have absolutely no faith in Pakistan and would hope that if it ever came down to it, we would stand behind India.  Of course that would also be predicated on the politics of the day.  Currently, Pakistan is cozying up to Russia and India to China, but depending on how the winds blow, they've changed positions a few times over the years!!  

Besides the Pakistan ISI harboring Bin Laden (essentially down the block from them) I know that Pakistan military used to fire at our positions along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.  It was never meant to hurt or kill our people, simply get them to move to cover while Al-Qaeda moved into or out of Pakistan.  It was actual Pakistan military outposts that would fire small arms or mortars at our outposts....   and of course, when requests to return fire were made, they were always denied.  One must surmise that our people knew we would fire for effect. 

Now, as to our remaining in Afghanistan, I believe the actual thought process is more dependent on trying to establish a quasi stable government with the current crop of leadership trying to play nice with Al-Qaeda, and vice versa.    I won't hold my breath for that, but it's possible that both sides just might come to the realization that after trying to kill each other for for the last couple thousand years, and neither side having accomplished that yet, it won't be likely to happen in the future.  But, who am I kidding!!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.3  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @7    2 weeks ago

Taking an E flight to Dubai is on my bucket list.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.3.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @7.3    2 weeks ago
Taking an E flight to Dubai is on my bucket list.

Make sure you don't do it during 'fly' season.   They get so numerous that they can literally cover a white truck making it look black...  and buzzing crazy.

 
 
 
Krishna
7.3.2  Krishna  replied to  XDm9mm @7.3.1    2 weeks ago

Make sure you don't do it during 'fly' season

And don't kiss anyone or show affection in public or you could end up in jail!

 The strict regulations mean Westerners can find themselves arrested or detained by police for something that in Australia might be considered rather harmless.

Here are some tips on how to avoid being arrested during a visit to the UAE:

THE MIDDLE FINGER:   Swearing and making rude gestures are criminal acts in the UAE and may result in significant penalties.

KISSING:   Public displays of affection, such as holding hands and kissing, are socially unacceptable. There have been arrests for public displays of affection.

BROKE:   Bouncing cheques and non-payment of bills may result in imprisonment or fines.

UNDRESSED:   In situations other than the beach or swimming pool, a woman's clothing might be considered indecent if it is tight, transparent, above the knee or shows her stomach, shoulders or back.

CHATTING UP WOMEN:   It is illegal to harass women. This includes unwanted conversation, prolonged stares and glaring.

PHOTOS:   Taking photographs of local people, particularly women, without permission and where there has been no previous contact is illegal and can lead to arrest or fines.

RAMADAN:   During the holy month of Ramadan, non-Muslims are expected to refrain from eating, drinking and smoking in public in front of Muslims between sunrise and sunset.

SEX:   Sex outside marriage is banned. Homosexual acts and prostitution are illegal and subject to severe punishment.

DRINK DRIVING:   It is illegal to have any alcohol in your blood when driving.

DRUGS:   The UAE has a zero-tolerance policy towards drugs and penalties for drug trafficking include the death penalty or life in jail.

MEDICATION:   Medication available over the counter or by prescription in Australia may be illegal or considered a controlled substance in the UAE. Check the status of the medication before bringing it into the country.

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.3.3  XDm9mm  replied to  Krishna @7.3.2    one week ago
Here are some tips on how to avoid being arrested during a visit to the UAE:

Actually, most of those tips are applicable to the majority of Middle East countries.  Even if not governmental mandates, it helps to keep the locals happy with just taking your money and not wanting to see you stoned.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
7.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  XDm9mm @7    2 weeks ago

I did that for Desert Storm.  Have you ever served?

 
 
 
XDm9mm
7.4.1  XDm9mm  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @7.4    2 weeks ago
I did that for Desert Storm.  Have you ever served?

In uniform long before that.  '69-71.

As a govvie/contractor 2004- current.  (quasi retired but being recruited back.)

 
 
 
It Is ME
8  It Is ME    2 weeks ago

"No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."

Nothing like pissing off other allies huh ! jrSmiley_22_smiley_image.gif

"The Kurds are known to say: “We have no friends but the mountains.”!

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
8.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  It Is ME @8    2 weeks ago

We say a lot of things, too... and apparently we don't mean it.

Here is an expression to remember... Actions speak louder than words, and the Kurds have had our backs for two wars now, and each time we cut out on them after promises were made. That does not speak highly of us and our other allies are watching and taking note.

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1    2 weeks ago
That does not speak highly of us and our other allies are watching and taking note.

Let's put this on "Other" allies for a real change !

Our "other" Allies speak that way about us, no matter if we do or if we don't !

Luke 11:46

New International Version:

"Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them."

Matthew 23:4

New International Version:

They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

 
 
 
Krishna
8.1.2  Krishna  replied to  It Is ME @8.1.1    2 weeks ago
speak that way about us,

Well, I suppose you could call Luke (PBUH), Matthew(PBUH) and Jesus(PBUH) our "allies"-- but I doubt if they'd currently be much help in fighting ISIS-- or even Turkey!

And there's no way you can change what they said (unless you can get a special dispensation from the Pope (PBUH on him as well).

Which may be hard to do in a Muslim country!

 
 
 
Krishna
8.1.3  Krishna  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @8.1    2 weeks ago
Actions speak louder than words, and the Kurds have had our backs for two wars now, and each time we cut out on them after promises were made.

Yes but let's not forget-- they never sent their Navy to help us during the Normany Invasion!

Trump Says the Kurds ‘Didn’t Help’ at Normandy. 

 
 
 
It Is ME
8.1.4  It Is ME  replied to  Krishna @8.1.2    2 weeks ago
or even Turkey

We should bomb a NATO Ally on purpose ?

 
 
 
Kavika
9  Kavika     2 weeks ago
Yes but let's not forget-- they never sent their Navy to help us during the Normany Invasion!

Well, thank goodness that today we came to the aid of a true ally. They fought side by side with us at Normandy. A true democracy with a splendid human rights record. (except for women, gays, non muslims and a host of others and that little episode of murdering and chopping up a US resident. The Prince didn't do it. The devil did ).  Oh, and there was that little thingly about some Saudi's flying planes into towers in NY. 

So, onward Christian Soldiers we must protect the House of Saud.

Defense Secretary  Mark Esper  ordered the deployment of 3,000 service members, two fighter squadrons, one air expeditionary wing, two Patriot Missile batteries and one THAAD missile defense system, Pentagon spokesperson Jonathan Hoffman said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-admin-sending-thousands-more-troops-to-saudi-arabia/ar-AAIDNjl
 
 
 
Krishna
9.1  Krishna  replied to  Kavika @9    2 weeks ago
Defense Secretary  Mark Esper  ordered the deployment of 3,000 service members, two fighter squadrons, one air expeditionary wing, two Patriot Missile batteries and one THAAD missile defense system, Pentagon spokesperson Jonathan Hoffman said. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump-admin-sending-thousands-more-troops-to-saudi-arabia/ar-AAIDNjl

Well, dontcha realize that's all part of Trump's plan?

Just so you understand-- by doing that he's fulfilling his campaign promise to get us out of endless wars in the Middle east!

Would an honorable Bone-Spur-Survivor like Trump ever lie? 

Of course not!

(That's why he's removing soldiers from those countries)

 
 
 
Krishna
10  Krishna    2 weeks ago

Trump: The Kurds Didn't Help Us With Normandy

Yes-- Kurdistan  is landlocked-- just so you understand.

320

Map of Kurdistan, a landlocked country

:It doesn't border any oceans 

And this I can tell you, there is no excuse! If the Kurds were really decent people, they could've come up with some solution (I wouldn't be surprised if the evil  Kurds were all Socialists-- like Hillary!)

Perhaps fell large trees, using the primitive Kurdish-type tools (in their shit hole country), cut them up into YUGE rollers, and rolled their ships to the Meditteranean I can tell you that!

Then charge ashore on Normandy with the other Allied fighters-- (Just so you understand.at least those Kurds who didn't have Bone Spurs which were all too common from those mountains-- its not their fault) 

Or-- perhaps the Kurds are all members of the (gasp) "Deep State"--  See map (above)  ot their landlocked country (which means its completely surrounded by land (just so you understand).

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
10.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Krishna @10    one week ago

Please don't show that clip. A fucking draft dodger chiding people because they didn't fight in a specific war (his entire family has avoided conflict, fucking cowards) is about all I can take. 

 
 
 
dave-2693993
10.2  dave-2693993  replied to  Krishna @10    one week ago
Trump: The Kurds Didn't Help Us With Normandy

Those bastards...

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
11  Thrawn 31    one week ago

How do you even look these people in the eye as you are leaving and following orders? 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
11.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  Thrawn 31 @11    one week ago

I'd tell them we are sending over some Antifa types as replacements.  That will put the fear of Allah into them.

 
 
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