Barr Warns Cardinal Dolan of ‘Militant Secular Effort’ to Curtail Religious Freedom

  
Via:  tessylo  •  2 weeks ago  •  60 comments

By:   Tobias Hoonhout,The National Review

Barr Warns Cardinal Dolan of ‘Militant Secular Effort’ to Curtail Religious Freedom

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


Politics

Barr Warns Cardinal Dolan of ‘Militant Secular Effort’ to Curtail Religious Freedom





Tobias Hoonhout


4b386150-d7c7-11e8-a57f-15e0861288ee January 29, 2020, 12:45 PM EST









bd9a2d44ce95202c61d0cfc49bd9569e

Attorney General William Barr warned New York’s Cardinal Timothy Dolan of “an organized, militant secular effort” to suppress religion in “the marketplace of ideas” in an interview Wednesday.

“The problem today is not that religious people are trying to impose their views on non-religious people,” Barr told Dolan on his SiriusXM radio show   Conversation with Cardinal Dolan . “It’s the opposite — it’s that militant secularists are trying to impose their values on religious people, and they’re not accommodating the freedom of religion of people of faith.”

Citingd Democrats’ efforts to coerce religious employers to violate their conscience rights as well as their ongoing effort to expand abortion access, Barr has used his platform as attorney general to speak out about what he sees as encroachments on religious liberty. He drew   a torrent of criticism   in October over a speech at Notre Dame Law School in which he said religiously convicted Americans face “social, educational, and professional ostracism.”

The attorney general explained Wednesday that the Founders believed in “the centrality of religion to the health of American democracy,” and that a loss of popular religiosity was a danger to the republic.

“We believe in the separation of church and state,” Barr stated. “But what permits a limited government and minimal command and control of the population — and allows people to have freedom of choice in their lives — and trust in the people is the fact that they are a people that are capable of disciplining themselves according to moral values.”




Barr also discussed his relationship with President Trump in the interview, and told Dolan how it compared to his time as attorney general in George H.W. Bush’s administration.

“They’re very different,” he explained. “I love both men — H.W., was more low-key. He had a very strong interest in foreign policy in which he really focuses attention on. The interesting thing about President Trump is that he is very hands on, he’ll bring people in to explain things to him, he’ll reach down and bring the experts in, and he listens.”




Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
[]
 
Tessylo
1  seeder  Tessylo    2 weeks ago

What a steaming pile of shit. 

Lying scumbag.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Tessylo @1    2 weeks ago

Ive heard some claim that religious freedom is being restricted or denied. But i have yet to see anyone demonstrate where religious freedom has been curtailed or restricted? Seems like a lot of whining and paranoia on their part.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.1  devangelical  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    2 weeks ago

... their freedom to legislate religious cult dogma in order to illegally impose it on the unwilling in a secular country needs to be denied. collectively, religious opinions end at the tax exempt property lines of their dominionist madrasas. thumpers are free to have their religious leaders and bible do their thinking and decision making for them, but they won't be doing mine. not now, not ever.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  devangelical @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

Agreed.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
1.1.3  Larry Hampton  replied to  devangelical @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

As well, playing the martyr also inspires resolve.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.4  Gordy327  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

They do seem to love playing the victim.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    2 weeks ago
But i have yet to see anyone demonstrate where religious freedom has been curtailed or restricted?

Let me see...

Still going to church whenever one wants to? Check

Choice of private religious school or public school? Check

Able to bow head and whisper a prayer at any time day or night? Check

Stupid Jesus fish still on the car? Check

There are other things I'm missing here, but if you have even 1/2 a brain cell I think everyone here gets the point.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.6  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.5    2 weeks ago

Wait, they might be "forced" to bake "gay wedding cakes," right? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

Hmmm....do they have a business license?

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.8  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

What difference does that make? Don't you know, baking a cake is somehow a religious function. Lol

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.8    2 weeks ago

Is Holy Water one of the ingredients?

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.10  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

I don't know. Apparently,  there's some difference between a regular cake and a "gay wedding cake." But no one seems to know the difference. 

 
 
 
devangelical
1.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.9    2 weeks ago

flour, sugar, unborn chickens and bovine udder secretions

 
 
 
r.t..b...
1.1.12  r.t..b...  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.9    2 weeks ago
Is Holy Water one of the ingredients?

...plus a dash of frankincense and myrrh...manna, what a cake.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
1.1.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  r.t..b... @1.1.12    2 weeks ago

that was very clever!

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.5    2 weeks ago
Still going to church whenever one wants to?

Not if you can’t build the church in the first place. Most notoriously, some Muslim groups have had to fight for the right to build mosques or community centers.

Able to bow head and whisper a prayer at any time day or night?

There are definitely some limitations on that one, especially in schools or other settings where the practice of religion is construed by some as a violation of the Establishment clause.

Also, does it need to be a whisper? That also sound like a limitation. And it’s not just prayer that is a religious exercise that sees limitations. A lot of people want Muslim women to have to remove the hijab. Rastafarians get pushback on dreadlocks.

And then of course there is issue of providing service like baking, florists, and photography, or benefits like birth control on a medical plan. You might not think they are right to do so, but the people denying these things are doing it - or say they are doing - for religious reasons.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.15  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.14    2 weeks ago
especially in schools or other settings where the practice of religion is construed by some as a violation of the Establishment clause.

That's if the school staff promotes or leads others in that practice during school time. Otherwise, kids can pray or whatever on their own accord when they wish as long as it does not disrupt a class.

Also, does it need to be a whisper? That also sound like a limitation. 

If they're allowed to pray, then there is no limitation. Whispering (or silent) is just being considerate of those around you.

A lot of people want Muslim women to have to remove the hijab. Rastafarians get pushback on dreadlocks.

That probably has something to do with school dress codes.

 but the people denying these things are doing it - or say they are doing - for religious reasons.

Which is an absurd reason too.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.16  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.15    2 weeks ago
That's if the school staff promotes or leads others in that practice during school time.

I understand the rule. That's not the point. It's still a restriction or curtailment on religious freedom, even if you think it's a good idea.

That probably has something to do with school dress codes.

It can be, but a lot of rules either get written or survive because they only tend to impact a minority religion.

Which is an absurd reason too.

Again, whether we agree with it or not is not the point. Religious practice is being limited. Religious freedom is not without restrictions.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.17  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.16    2 weeks ago
It's still a restriction or curtailment on religious freedom, even if you think it's a good idea.

Separation of church and state is a very good idea. But no one's religious freedom is being limited if a school doesn't promote or engage in it.

but a lot of rules either get written or survive because they only tend to impact a minority religion.

Or no one has made a strong enough case against them.

Religious practice is being limited. 

Using your examples of various businesses, operating a business is not a religious function. So no practice is being limited. THat's just an excuse and weak one too.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.1.18  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

No.  Religious practice is not being limited in any way shape or form whatsoever 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
1.1.19  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.16    2 weeks ago
Religious practice is being limited. Religious freedom is not without restrictions.

True. You're not allowed to go kidnap children, rape them and use them as blood sacrifices regardless of how much some evangelicals or other religious extremists may want to even if their religion demands such rituals. Thank goodness religious freedom under the constitution is not unlimited.

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.20  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.17    2 weeks ago

Why is it so hard for you to admit that restrictions exist? A "good reason" for the restriction doesn't change the fact that the restriction exists. Talk about denial!

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.21  Tacos!  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.19    2 weeks ago
You're not allowed to go kidnap children, rape them and use them as blood sacrifices

You have some weird fantasies about the world. Was that the only one came to mind or is there more in there? Do you think that's a natural consequence of anything I mentioned?

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.22  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.18    2 weeks ago
Religious practice is not being limited in any way shape or form whatsoever 

Oh? Well then you won't mind if the kindergarten teachers start off with a prayer every morning.

 
 
 
cjcold
1.1.23  cjcold  replied to  Tessylo @1.1.18    2 weeks ago

Pretty sure that there is a NT member whose every seed and post revolves around perceived religious persecution from 'secular liberals'.

Must be a bitch living in constant fear due to an overly enlarged amygdala.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
1.1.24  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    2 weeks ago

Barr is right in all that he said both here and during his Notre Dame speech.  It is good that the secular progressives outright contempt of and bigotry toward Christianity and people who are Christians living up to Biblical standards is being exposed and called out. 

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
1.1.25  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  Larry Hampton @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
cjcold
1.1.26  cjcold  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.16    2 weeks ago

As a scientist I have no problem with religious fanatics being trashed for their ignorance. 

Been at war with ignorant red-neck science deniers my whole life.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.27  Gordy327  replied to  Donald J. Trump fan 1 @1.1.24    2 weeks ago
Barr is right in all that he said both here and during his Notre Dame speech.

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem explaining where religious freedom is being curtailed.

 It is good that the secular progressives outright contempt of and bigotry toward Christianity and people who are Christians living up to Biblical standards is being exposed and called out. 

More delusional nonsense, with a hint of paranoia thrown in too.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.28  Gordy327  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.20    2 weeks ago
Why is it so hard for you to admit that restrictions exist? A "good reason" for the restriction doesn't change the fact that the restriction exists. Talk about denial!

We clearly seem to have different ideas over what constitutes a "restriction. If you're going to say that religion expression is limited because (for example) one is not allowed to conduct sacrifices according to their religion or blare out prayers 24/7 in certain environments, then you would be correct. But in the context of the discussion, no one is being restricted from religious practice, especially not by "militant secularists." People are still free to believe what they want, attend the religious institution of their choice, and pray to their heart's content, ect.. No one is being arrested, persecuted, re-educated (or anything else that certain theistic minded individuals would have us believe).

 
 
 
Tacos!
1.1.29  Tacos!  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.28    2 weeks ago
We clearly seem to have different ideas over what constitutes a "restriction.

You can either do whatever you want, or you can't. If you can't, it's a restriction. The word means what it means. I think maybe you just don't like the idea that you're in the position of siding with people who want to restrict. (On the flip side, for example, homophobes don't like being called homophobes, but it doesn't change reality) I think it would be more honest to admit the restrictions ("own it," as people say) and then argue the necessity of the reasons.

No one is being arrested, persecuted, re-educated (or anything else that certain theistic minded individuals would have us believe).

Arrested? Not usually, but it can happen. I would say persecution and reeducation tends to happen more at the social level than through government action.

Of course the Oregon v Smith case set the precedent that generally applicable laws supersede religious practice. That's how you get arrested. Maybe you're blocking access where you're preaching, or sacrificing an animal, or smoking something that's an illegal substance. I don't even disagree with this dynamic in all cases, although the circumstances of the Smith case were outrageous enough that Congress was moved to write the first RFRA type law aimed at protecting religious practice.

There is always going to be some level of conflict where we don't have total religious freedom. The United States is full of conflicts between total freedom and order.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @1    2 weeks ago
What a steaming pile of shit.  Lying scumbag.

That's quite a well thought out, researched response/s. I think the AG's thoughts on the subject stand undisputed.

 
 
 
devangelical
1.2.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    2 weeks ago

I wonder how much pornstar barr had to pay to get hold of all those original underage girl videos from his pal jeff epstein.

 
 
 
Tessylo
1.2.2  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    2 weeks ago

Undisputed my ass.  

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
1.2.3  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    2 weeks ago

He’s a great American and an awesome Attorney General.  The best one since Edwin Meese and could be best ever before he retires.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.2.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Donald J. Trump fan 1 @1.2.3    2 weeks ago

I couldn't agree more. Men like him are needed in theses times.

 
 
 
charger 383
2  charger 383    2 weeks ago

Religion has had too much power for too long

 
 
 
Tessylo
2.1  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @2    2 weeks ago

Hey, here's another area where we agree

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.2  Gordy327  replied to  charger 383 @2    2 weeks ago

And yet, some complain they're being restricted or persecuted. Go figure. Quite a laughable claim too, considering the majority of the country identifies with a religious affiliation of some type or denomination. 

 
 
 
squiggy
2.3  squiggy  replied to  charger 383 @2    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
squiggy
2.3.1  squiggy  replied to  squiggy @2.3    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
2.3.2  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  squiggy @2.3    2 weeks ago

removed for context

 
 
 
lady in black
3  lady in black    2 weeks ago

Barr is a despicable human being.

"Losing religious liberty/freedoms" (which they are not) is just a code word for not being able to discriminate against anyone who is not white; people that are gays, lesbians, transgenders and of course women.  

 
 
 
Gordy327
3.1  Gordy327  replied to  lady in black @3    2 weeks ago

Nailed it!

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
3.1.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1    2 weeks ago

She usually does. 

 
 
 
r.t..b...
4  r.t..b...    2 weeks ago

from the seed and in Burr's own words:

    "and control of the population"

Is there a more frightening five words ever uttered by an Attorney General?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
4.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  r.t..b... @4    2 weeks ago
Is there a more frightening five words ever uttered by an Attorney General?

Yes...................... "Maybe it will go away" (uttered by Mrs. Clinton in 2016)

 
 
 
r.t..b...
4.1.1  r.t..b...  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    2 weeks ago
Yes...................... "Maybe it will go away" (uttered by Mrs. Clinton in 2016)

...she was not, nor ever was, the acting AG...as opposed to the current holder of the highest legal office in the land. I still think his comment should make us all shudder.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
4.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    2 weeks ago

When was Mrs. Clinton ever an AG?

 
 
 
Tessylo
4.1.3  seeder  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    2 weeks ago

But, but, but, the Clintons.  

THIS SEED IS NOT ABOUT THE CLINTONS.  

giphy.gif

 
 
 
evilgenius
5  evilgenius    2 weeks ago

There is NOT "an organized, militant secular effort” to suppress religion in “the marketplace of ideas”. There is an organized effort by rational people to curb Christian Exceptionalism. Being called out on their bullshit isn't suppression of religion it's push back on generations of suppression by religion.

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1  Gordy327  replied to  evilgenius @5    2 weeks ago

Some seem to equate challenging their beliefs or claims as persecution or attempts to restricthe religious rights.

 
 
 
evilgenius
5.1.1  evilgenius  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1    2 weeks ago

Yes, from the outside it seems as if they don't have faith an omnipotent deity wouldn't need me to kneel in subjugation for them to feel good about themselves, but in reality playing the martyr is just baked into their dogma. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  evilgenius @5.1.1    2 weeks ago

Dogma, or delusion? 

 
 
 
evilgenius
5.1.3  evilgenius  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.2    2 weeks ago

Is there a difference?

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.4  Gordy327  replied to  evilgenius @5.1.3    2 weeks ago

Not really.

 
 
 
Donald J. Trump fan 1
5.1.5  Donald J. Trump fan 1  replied to  Gordy327 @5.1.2    2 weeks ago

Only if one is a Unitarian Universalist or a follower of the religion of atheism. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
5.1.6  Gordy327  replied to  Donald J. Trump fan 1 @5.1.5    2 weeks ago
Only if one is a Unitarian Universalist or a follower of the religion of atheism. 

Spewing nonsense like claiming atheism is a religion only makes you look foolish. You do realize that, right?

 
 
 
Tacos!
7  Tacos!    2 weeks ago
“But what permits a limited government and minimal command and control of the population — and allows people to have freedom of choice in their lives — and trust in the people is the fact that they are a people that are capable of disciplining themselves according to moral values.”

I think that’s the case whenever you put power in the control of the masses, be it democracy or communism. If society doesn’t look to a moral leader, then the people themselves should be a moral people. I wouldn’t say that requires everybody be of the same religious belief or that they derive their morality from religion specifically. I do think it helps if most or all of the people have some set of basic moral philosophies that they can agree on.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
8  Dismayed Patriot    2 weeks ago

“The problem today is not that religious people are trying to impose their views on non-religious people, It’s the opposite — it’s that militant secularists are trying to impose their values on religious people, and they’re not accommodating the freedom of religion of people of faith.”

The problem today is that religious people have been allowed to impose their views on non-religious people for centuries, and now that they are being told "No, you can't do that anymore!" they're getting bitter and butthurt and do nothing but whine and complain about what they perceive as a loss of their expected, assumed privilege.

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online

Donald J. Trump fan 1
CB
The Magic Eight Ball
KatPen
JohnRussell
Dulay
loki12


48 visitors