Every starting or relief pitcher will be forced to face at least three batters in one of several rule changes for the 2020 season announced Wednesday by Major League Baseball.
Because forcing a reliever to face three batters, after failing to retire the one he was brought in for, will be much faster than bring a new pitcher in.
This is a dumb rule.I could say more than that, but I'm not sure it's necessary. This is just really really dumb.
The rule has an injury caveat, saying a pitcher must remain "unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire crew chief's judgment, incapacitates him from further play as a pitcher."
Oh, look! A loophole you could drive the team bus through.
So the purpose of that rule change was to screw the team that's in the field and make it more difficult for it to win the game. Otherwise what was its purpose? Next thing they might do is require any batter who hits a home run to sit out the rest of the game.
Yeah, that could speed up the game a bit, and the rest of the team could still meet the batter at home plate to high-5 him. It could cut down the cheering although I was there and saw Joe Carter hit the home run that won the Blue Jays their back-to-back World Series, and I think Toronto is still cheering. It was my lifetime most exciting moment in sports. Don't tell A.Mac I said so - he's still upset about it.
Carter! That's one of those moments you'll always remember. Won a dollar bet with my dad that at bat. Had I been older, I'd have wagered more. I called the shot. 3 times now. Carter, Freese, and Muncy.
I don't mind time saving rules, because I realize how long & tedious this 19th century game can sometimes be. However, I'm against restrictions on what managers can do with pitchers. The nature of Baseball is that it is the only team sport in which the DEFENSE controls the ball. Therefore I'm against this one, which is as bad as inter-league play and free agency!
That's a good point, and why the line-up is so important. You put Mike Trout in the line-up of any 12 year old team, they may score 3 runs a game, but if you can keep the other guys off of the bags, Trout's not going to hurt you. If someone does get on ahead of him, give him a free pass.
So much for the left handed relief specialist. Most managers won’t bring in a lefty who has to face two or three right handed batters if the opposing manager pinch hits for the initial lefty batter. This rule change totally favors the team at bat.
No surprise there. Can't brush anyone back. The strike zone is as tall as it is wide now, and they want to get rid of the guy behind the plate and replace him with a computer. They are only pissed at the Astros because they got caught sign stealing.
Problem is, pitching is a very large part of the reason games are longer. Relief pitching, especially one inning relief specialists are a relatively new thing. As pitch counts and relievers started limiting complete games, the game got longer.
I'm for speeding up the game, but I don't like this.
How about instead say that pitching changes are limited to two minutes each--from the time the manager signals for the reliever until the first pitch by the new pitcher. No longer a number of warmups pitches but a strict time limit. They already limit mound visits, but they should time them starting when the manager steps on the field. Give the umpire discretion to call a ball after a certain number of tosses to first designed to buy time for a reliever to warm up.
I also think they did this to create more offense--which loads of fans love to see.
I can also see managers loving one aspect of it--they can save some position players since they won't need to pinch-hit so often since there won't be all those righty-lefty switch-ups if pitchers have to throw to three hitters.
Teams might like being able to carry one or two fewer pitchers.
I also think they did this to create more offense--which loads of fans love to see.
Yes, anything to increase the numbers on offense, while shortening the game. In twenty years, your own pitcher will throw to you. In 40 years, we will be playing team home run derby.
There are a few stats I wish were tracked here. HRs, K's, BB's. The number of K's and HRs are up. K's take more time than a 2nd pitch ground out to short.
You are not alone. We're the ones who get there as soon as the ballpark will let us in. I love the goings ons before and after the games. Some of the best stuff can happen then.
I sometimes get bored if we aren't playing well and the weather is bad but i agree .... if the weather is good .... "time" is never bother at all.
As Sparty suggests, you are not alone. I enjoy the game. Playing to the "instant gratification" crowd isn't going to increase excitement.
Electronic ball/strike calls will be used in minor league ball this year. To what end I ask? What are they fixing? I had a friend post a figure, suggesting that hundreds of ball/strike calls were missed by major league umps last year. Oh the horror. Sounds terrible, until you flip it on its head and, after doing the math, realize that more than 95% of the ball/strike calls were right. Plate umpires are part of the game. Period. I hope the electronic crap fails miserably.
For my part i'm for anything that helps stop umps from injecting themselves even more on the game. If you watch the game you know what i'm talking about. Some of those pricks intentionally make bad calls just to piss others off. Especially with calling ball and strikes. Daring players and coaches to argue with them so they can give them the boot.
With that in mind, i'm all for electronic calling of balls and strikes if it works well. 100%
I'll admit that I'm a bit of a romantic. But, if they are missing less than 5% of the calls now...I'm betting that is around the margin of error. But yes, I have seen some flat erroneous calls.
I played in college, both as a position player and pitcher. I once started a college game with 2 walks, on 8 straight strikes, 7 if I give the guy the benefit of the doubt on the 1st pitch. You'll have a hard time, still, convincing me that I threw 8 straight balls. Only time in my career that I threw more than 2 in a row. Could have used a little more velocity, but control I had. At the time I would have told you it was home cooking for a team that didn't need it. Now, I'll still say there was some cooking, but I'll also admit that my attitude after the 1st pitch fanned the flames.
Some are really good at calling balls and strikes and rarely intentionally make the wrong call and others not so much. I bet the % for those bad ones is well above 5%. Coaches and/or players arguing balls and strikes and you can almost see the sneer behind the mask as they intentionally make the wrong calls.
I tend to be a purist as well but i hate it when umps make bad calls and thumb their noses at the player and coaches. Sincerely honest mistakes will be made but the intentional ones are as heinous as it gets IMO.
According to this "massive" study, umpires missed 34,294 ball/strike calls in 2018. Assuming that number is correct, and the numbers of the other link above are correct, 34,294 out of 721,496 pitches in 2018 is 4.75%.
Coaches and/or players arguing balls and strikes and you can almost see the sneer behind the mask as they intentionally make the wrong calls.
Right, I didn't help my cause in the story relayed. Oddly, for as cocky a player as I was, it goes right though me when one of my little players makes any motion in apparent attempt to show up an ump.
I played a bit of ball, shortstop, up through a semi-pro league unaffiliated with college or MLB after HS.
Like the other sports i always tried to take the high road, "act like you been there" attitude and that is what i passed on to the little leaguers i coached back in the day. In other words don't argue balls and strikes, let the coach do that. However, watching MLB, sometimes the calls are so egregious i don't blame any player from getting hot. And i'm not talking the occasional bad call, that happens. I'm talking when the bad calls keep coming and coming and coming.
I wouldn't say that I watch a ton of pro ball, but I watch every chance I get. If we are being honest, I'd say that I have been impressed a lot of times, especially lately, since they started putting the strike zone/hit trax on the screen. I think they have upped their game a bit.
We will see. I think the zone is too tight as it is. Anymore, these guys piss and moan about balls on the knees, which are and always have been strikes. They also piss and moan about anything above the belt. Hell, as a pitcher, you are trying to keep the ball out of the zone today's hitters are bitching about being strikes.
It is the height of hypocrisy. At the same time hoping the pitcher serves one up on the middle inside half around the numbers, and arguing the called strike when you don't swing at it.
Look at where the game is. The zone is smaller, you can't knock anyone down, or even appear to be knocking anyone down, and batting averages are still on the decline. Can you imagine Bob Gibson pitching today?
I never liked the bean ball thing. A brush back is one thing but intentional beaners?
If a pitcher can intentionally hit a batter, then the batter should be able to run out and try to put a beating on that pitcher. Seems fair to me but probably not to you since you were a pitcher.
I'm ambivalent about the change but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. It's the time between pitches that has increased dramatically. Mike Hargrove used to be called the human rain delay because of the time he took to reset (fidgeting with batting glvoes etc...) in the box between pitches. Now his routine is the norm. Combine that with the pitchers taking longer and longer between pitches and baseball has become a contest of who can delay longer between pitches.
Baseball needs a pitch clock and hitters shouldn't be able to leave the box if they haven't swung. That's the only way you'll get the pace back to what it was.
It's a single sample study comparing two games - one from 1984 and one from 2014. In most respects, the games were pretty close to identical but the 2014 game took a half hour longer.
Pitching changes doesn't seem to be the culprit because the two games had the same number of changes. The primary villain appears to be basic lollygagging between pitches.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Because forcing a reliever to face three batters, after failing to retire the one he was brought in for, will be much faster than bring a new pitcher in.
This is a dumb rule.I could say more than that, but I'm not sure it's necessary. This is just really really dumb.
Oh, look! A loophole you could drive the team bus through.
Agreed.
Looks like MLB is trying to take the “new stupid rule” award from the NFL
Ripe for abuse, and a rule that I really can't see speeding up the game anyway.
Just set a clock and screw the customer - game's over in two hours no matter where it stands.
new rules are ruining both Baseball and Football
So the purpose of that rule change was to screw the team that's in the field and make it more difficult for it to win the game. Otherwise what was its purpose? Next thing they might do is require any batter who hits a home run to sit out the rest of the game.
Never! But, I could see them not requiring said hitter to round the bags, but only to touch first.
Yeah, that could speed up the game a bit, and the rest of the team could still meet the batter at home plate to high-5 him. It could cut down the cheering although I was there and saw Joe Carter hit the home run that won the Blue Jays their back-to-back World Series, and I think Toronto is still cheering. It was my lifetime most exciting moment in sports. Don't tell A.Mac I said so - he's still upset about it.
I can’t imagine losing Kirk Gibson’s iconic limp around the bases.
Right? Fist pump, touch first, walk to dugout.
Carter! That's one of those moments you'll always remember. Won a dollar bet with my dad that at bat. Had I been older, I'd have wagered more. I called the shot. 3 times now. Carter, Freese, and Muncy.
This is one that i'll never forget:
Gibby had an even more famous one with the Dodgers
I don't mind time saving rules, because I realize how long & tedious this 19th century game can sometimes be. However, I'm against restrictions on what managers can do with pitchers. The nature of Baseball is that it is the only team sport in which the DEFENSE controls the ball. Therefore I'm against this one, which is as bad as inter-league play and free agency!
That's a good point, and why the line-up is so important. You put Mike Trout in the line-up of any 12 year old team, they may score 3 runs a game, but if you can keep the other guys off of the bags, Trout's not going to hurt you. If someone does get on ahead of him, give him a free pass.
So much for the left handed relief specialist. Most managers won’t bring in a lefty who has to face two or three right handed batters if the opposing manager pinch hits for the initial lefty batter. This rule change totally favors the team at bat.
No surprise there. Can't brush anyone back. The strike zone is as tall as it is wide now, and they want to get rid of the guy behind the plate and replace him with a computer. They are only pissed at the Astros because they got caught sign stealing.
Problem is, pitching is a very large part of the reason games are longer. Relief pitching, especially one inning relief specialists are a relatively new thing. As pitch counts and relievers started limiting complete games, the game got longer.
I'm for speeding up the game, but I don't like this.
How about instead say that pitching changes are limited to two minutes each--from the time the manager signals for the reliever until the first pitch by the new pitcher. No longer a number of warmups pitches but a strict time limit. They already limit mound visits, but they should time them starting when the manager steps on the field. Give the umpire discretion to call a ball after a certain number of tosses to first designed to buy time for a reliever to warm up.
I also think they did this to create more offense--which loads of fans love to see.
I can also see managers loving one aspect of it--they can save some position players since they won't need to pinch-hit so often since there won't be all those righty-lefty switch-ups if pitchers have to throw to three hitters.
Teams might like being able to carry one or two fewer pitchers.
Yes, anything to increase the numbers on offense, while shortening the game. In twenty years, your own pitcher will throw to you. In 40 years, we will be playing team home run derby.
Some season-by-season stats.
Assuming the accuracy of the stats
From 1970 to 2019:
length of game has increased roughly 40 minutes.
Runs per game: more now.
Plate Appearances: same.
There are a few stats I wish were tracked here. HRs, K's, BB's. The number of K's and HRs are up. K's take more time than a 2nd pitch ground out to short.
You are not alone. We're the ones who get there as soon as the ballpark will let us in. I love the goings ons before and after the games. Some of the best stuff can happen then.
I sometimes get bored if we aren't playing well and the weather is bad but i agree .... if the weather is good .... "time" is never bother at all.
As Sparty suggests, you are not alone. I enjoy the game. Playing to the "instant gratification" crowd isn't going to increase excitement.
Electronic ball/strike calls will be used in minor league ball this year. To what end I ask? What are they fixing? I had a friend post a figure, suggesting that hundreds of ball/strike calls were missed by major league umps last year. Oh the horror. Sounds terrible, until you flip it on its head and, after doing the math, realize that more than 95% of the ball/strike calls were right. Plate umpires are part of the game. Period. I hope the electronic crap fails miserably.
For my part i'm for anything that helps stop umps from injecting themselves even more on the game. If you watch the game you know what i'm talking about. Some of those pricks intentionally make bad calls just to piss others off. Especially with calling ball and strikes. Daring players and coaches to argue with them so they can give them the boot.
With that in mind, i'm all for electronic calling of balls and strikes if it works well. 100%
I'll admit that I'm a bit of a romantic. But, if they are missing less than 5% of the calls now...I'm betting that is around the margin of error. But yes, I have seen some flat erroneous calls.
I played in college, both as a position player and pitcher. I once started a college game with 2 walks, on 8 straight strikes, 7 if I give the guy the benefit of the doubt on the 1st pitch. You'll have a hard time, still, convincing me that I threw 8 straight balls. Only time in my career that I threw more than 2 in a row. Could have used a little more velocity, but control I had. At the time I would have told you it was home cooking for a team that didn't need it. Now, I'll still say there was some cooking, but I'll also admit that my attitude after the 1st pitch fanned the flames.
Some are really good at calling balls and strikes and rarely intentionally make the wrong call and others not so much. I bet the % for those bad ones is well above 5%. Coaches and/or players arguing balls and strikes and you can almost see the sneer behind the mask as they intentionally make the wrong calls.
I tend to be a purist as well but i hate it when umps make bad calls and thumb their noses at the player and coaches. Sincerely honest mistakes will be made but the intentional ones are as heinous as it gets IMO.
According to this "massive" study, umpires missed 34,294 ball/strike calls in 2018. Assuming that number is correct, and the numbers of the other link above are correct, 34,294 out of 721,496 pitches in 2018 is 4.75%.
Right, I didn't help my cause in the story relayed. Oddly, for as cocky a player as I was, it goes right though me when one of my little players makes any motion in apparent attempt to show up an ump.
I'd be really interested how they came up with that number. Specifically, who decided the calls were good or bad.
I played a bit of ball, shortstop, up through a semi-pro league unaffiliated with college or MLB after HS.
Like the other sports i always tried to take the high road, "act like you been there" attitude and that is what i passed on to the little leaguers i coached back in the day. In other words don't argue balls and strikes, let the coach do that. However, watching MLB, sometimes the calls are so egregious i don't blame any player from getting hot. And i'm not talking the occasional bad call, that happens. I'm talking when the bad calls keep coming and coming and coming.
I wouldn't say that I watch a ton of pro ball, but I watch every chance I get. If we are being honest, I'd say that I have been impressed a lot of times, especially lately, since they started putting the strike zone/hit trax on the screen. I think they have upped their game a bit.
We will see. I think the zone is too tight as it is. Anymore, these guys piss and moan about balls on the knees, which are and always have been strikes. They also piss and moan about anything above the belt. Hell, as a pitcher, you are trying to keep the ball out of the zone today's hitters are bitching about being strikes.
Lol ... spoken like a true pitcher but i agree. The strike is nothing like it was when i played .... it's much, much smaller.
It is the height of hypocrisy. At the same time hoping the pitcher serves one up on the middle inside half around the numbers, and arguing the called strike when you don't swing at it.
Look at where the game is. The zone is smaller, you can't knock anyone down, or even appear to be knocking anyone down, and batting averages are still on the decline. Can you imagine Bob Gibson pitching today?
Regardless, this is the worst time of the year.
I never liked the bean ball thing. A brush back is one thing but intentional beaners?
If a pitcher can intentionally hit a batter, then the batter should be able to run out and try to put a beating on that pitcher. Seems fair to me but probably not to you since you were a pitcher.
Well...I was both. I'll admit that I was conscious about not showing anyone up, either from the mound or at the plate though.
I've intentionally hit, and been intentionally hit. But I agree, nothing wrong with chin music.
One of the guys I grew up watching found out it may be best to trot on down to first.
If they are trying to get more people to ballgames this ain't gonna do it. Try lowering ticket and concession prices.
Most MLB parks have pretty much priced themselves out of the common mans price range.
Yes.
I'm ambivalent about the change but it doesn't get to the root of the problem. It's the time between pitches that has increased dramatically. Mike Hargrove used to be called the human rain delay because of the time he took to reset (fidgeting with batting glvoes etc...) in the box between pitches. Now his routine is the norm. Combine that with the pitchers taking longer and longer between pitches and baseball has become a contest of who can delay longer between pitches.
Baseball needs a pitch clock and hitters shouldn't be able to leave the box if they haven't swung. That's the only way you'll get the pace back to what it was.
I found a fun article on the length of games.
WHY BASEBALL GAMES ARE SO DAMNED LONG
It's a single sample study comparing two games - one from 1984 and one from 2014. In most respects, the games were pretty close to identical but the 2014 game took a half hour longer.
Pitching changes doesn't seem to be the culprit because the two games had the same number of changes. The primary villain appears to be basic lollygagging between pitches.
I hate Lollygaggers
I have an idea! LEAVE THE DAMNED RULES ALONE!