If Things Are So Great, Why Is Bernie Sanders Doing So Well?

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  john-russell  •  7 months ago  •  127 comments

If Things Are So Great, Why Is Bernie Sanders Doing So Well?
The ideological contention is not just about capitalism vs democratic socialism, it is about the failure to achieve a promising future for America's young. 

Bernie Sanders message is rather stark. America is victimized by the rich, who buy political power and use it to maintain their domination of the finances of the society. 

A lot of young people like Sanders, meaning they buy Sanders message. The Nevada voting for the Democratic candidates is taking place today, and I hear one report that the over 45 vote is splitting roughly evenly between Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar.  But Sanders is going to win this Nevada election very easily, because he is getting overwhelming support from people under 45 year old. 

The under 45's are the main people looking at the future. They dont see a bright future for themselves in a Donald Trump style economy, mainly because they dont see a bright present. A large majority of college graduates under 45 cannot find a job in their field of training.  They see no path to universal health care in the near future, and that is something young people overwhelmingly want done. They see nothing being done about the cost of college, which is another political item they want addressed immediately. 

And of course, the young see that the person leading the nation is a dishonest ignorant buffoon. Being so fresh or relatively fresh out of school makes them more idealistic in terms of what leaders should be according to American tradition, and Trump ain't it. 

The ideological contention is not just about capitalism vs democratic socialism, it is about the failure to achieve a promising future for America's young. 

Hillary Clinton beat Trump in the under 30 vote by 18 points in 2020, a spread that almost certainly will be wider this year in favor of the Democrat. 

The country should be concerned with what their young are concerned with. 


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JohnRussell
1  author  JohnRussell    7 months ago

Leaving Trump aside, there is still a mass of dissatisfied people. And they are the future. 

 
 
 
squiggy
1.1  squiggy  replied to  JohnRussell @1    7 months ago

"Why Is Bernie Sanders Doing So Well?"

Because he's playing within his own league. He won't have a designated hitter when he shows up downtown.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  squiggy @1.1    7 months ago

Correct. I think it's fair to say that progressives are now a majority of the democratic party. When Bernie gets into a general election we shall see how many Americans want a Socialist economy.

 
 
 
Sparty On
1.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    7 months ago
I think it's fair to say that progressives are now a majority of the democratic party.

I have my doubts about that.   Perhaps they are in the places he appears to be winning but in the rest of the US?

Debatable at best imo.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
1.1.3  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sparty On @1.1.2    7 months ago

It shall be interesting.

 
 
 
The Magic Eight Ball
1.2  The Magic Eight Ball  replied to  JohnRussell @1    7 months ago
And they are the future. 

they are the minority.

bernie supporters are very far from being the majority and will be easy to beat in 2020 and beyond

go bernie :)

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.2.1  Split Personality  replied to  The Magic Eight Ball @1.2    7 months ago

and Biden supporters are in the majority in the over 45 year old age bracket, at least in Nevada.......

and maybe.................in the other 46 or 47 states?

 
 
 
gooseisgone
1.2.2  gooseisgone  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.1    7 months ago
Biden supporters are in the majority

With the stuff that comes out of Biden"s mouth, I can't see people voting for him he really seems delusional. 

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  gooseisgone @1.2.2    7 months ago

Well, he's been consistent for 70 years, there's that, he stutters, it's more evident in the debates tha it is during Town Halls.

That doesn't make him delusional.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
1.2.4  gooseisgone  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.3    7 months ago
That doesn't make him delusional.

He's running for Senate

1,500,000 people killed by gun violence since 2007

Arrested in South Africa with Nelson Mandela

This is just a few.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.2.5  Split Personality  replied to  gooseisgone @1.2.4    7 months ago

So it seems to me that misspeaking or  acting like one has had a stroke is very Presidential these days.

jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
gooseisgone
1.2.6  gooseisgone  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.5    7 months ago

I didn't even mention the misspeaking, he doesn't have a grasp on reality.  "Arrested with Nelson Mandela" is not a misspeak it's a lie.

 
 
 
Split Personality
1.2.7  Split Personality  replied to  gooseisgone @1.2.6    7 months ago

He was detained and separated from the US entourage when traveling with UN Ambassador Andrew Young

for refusing to use the "white's only" door and attempting to use the 'black's only' doors when they arrived.

Mandela was still 600 miles away in his cell.

So he's exaggerating his detainment while other's twist what he said.

“I had the great honor of being arrested with our U.N. ambassador on the streets of Soweto trying to get to see [Mandela] on Robben Island.”

According to Young, they were simply dealing with apartheid as best they could, including being separated by color for no good diplomatic reason but it happened in Johannesburg, not Soweto.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
1.2.8  Sean Treacy  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.7    7 months ago

He lied. He was not arrested on the streets of Soweto like he claimed. 

His spokesman says was separated, not detained.

He also  lied about Mandela  thanked him for being arrested.

He lied. He lies all the time. From his law school plagiarism to his lies about gunshot victims at the debate (Under the Trump standard, every misstatement is a lie).  That's what he does.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
1.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  JohnRussell @1    7 months ago

A lot of young Bernie supporters are extremely naïve and subject to believing people telling what they want to hear and Bernie knows this. By the time the reality sets in it will be far too late.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
1.4  author  JohnRussell  replied to  JohnRussell @1    7 months ago

A horse named TRUMP'S REVENGE ran in the sixth race at Sam Houston race track in Texas today.

He went off at odds of 70-1 and finished 11th in a field of 12.

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
2  Freedom Warrior    7 months ago

If they think they’re dissatisfied now wait till they experience the misery socialism is going to heap upon them.

 
 
 
Ronin2
3  Ronin2    7 months ago

Because the Russian bots are backing him.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/us-officials-said-russia-is-also-trying-to-help-sanders.html

U.S. officials have informed Senator Bernie Sanders that Russia is attempting to aid his presidential campaign in an effort to interfere in the 2020 Democratic primary, the Washington Post reported on Friday. It’s not yet clear how Russia is backing Sanders this time around, but in its efforts to help elect President Trump in 2016, the Kremlin used social media to support the Sanders campaign and fuel discord and division among the U.S. electorate to weaken support for Hillary Clinton.

Same as they did in 2016. Of course the left completely ignores it.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
3.1  author  JohnRussell  replied to  Ronin2 @3    7 months ago

Thats funny. Maybe you can get a job as Trumps warm up act at his rallies. 

 
 
 
Freedom Warrior
3.1.1  Freedom Warrior  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    7 months ago

Looks like you’re proving his point

 
 
 
bugsy
3.1.2  bugsy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1    7 months ago

Maybe you can get a job as Trumps warm up act at his rallies. 

 

So NOW you don't believe the intel community?

 
 
 
TᵢG
4  TᵢG    7 months ago
The country should be concerned with what their young are concerned with. 

I have long since concluded that the politically / economically naïve hold the view that all it takes is political will and the Federal government will magically be able to hand out goodies to all and maintain a thriving economy.  If one disregards (or is not sufficiently knowledgeable of) practical reality, Sanders' promises would sound great.

But, yes, it is a cause for alarm to see so many people running after big government statism aka social democracy (which now apparently goes under the label 'socialism').

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
5  Dean Moriarty    7 months ago

Because there’s far more idiots than Einstein’s in the Democratic Party. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
6  XDm9mm    7 months ago
If Things Are So Great, Why Is Bernie Sanders Doing So Well?

Really easy answer.

When you offer free shit to your base, of course having others pay for the free shit you're going to give away, they'll swarm to you like flies on shit.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
7  Buzz of the Orient    7 months ago

I've been thinking about the negative problems Bernie will face if he becomes the Democratic candidate:

1.  Antisemitism.  Everyone knows he's Jewish, and it's obvious that patent antisemites won't vote for him, and since ballots are secret, latent antisemites have no fear of giving vent to their hidden feelings with their vote.

2.  His attitude towards Israel.  The liberal Jews may support his pro-Palestinian policies, but Orthodox Jews will not.

3.  His age.  He will be in his 80s in the first term.  I'm in my 80s now and although I'm not suffering from dementia, I'm not sure I would be able to handle the pressure that a POTUS would experience, so I'd be concerned about him.

4.  His health - he recently suffered from a heart attack, and at his age he might not be able to bear the stress of the job.

5.  Socialism.  I'm sure not everyone in America is as enamoured with his extreme socialistic politics, and I have already noted on this site that a fear and hatred of Communism exists in America.

 
 
 
MUVA
8  MUVA    7 months ago

I know why we have a lot of losers in this country and free stuff looks appealing to losers. 

 
 
 
DRHunk
8.1  DRHunk  replied to  MUVA @8    7 months ago

With un-employment around 3%, who the hell are these "losers".  It appears pretty much most of the country is willing to work if the work is available.  I am pretty fucking disgusted by your comment.

 
 
 
Sparty On
9  Sparty On    7 months ago

XD pretty much hit the nail squarely on the head.    

You have a lot of shiftless, lazy fuks who will vote for anyone who promises them the most free shit.

Its not rocket engineering John.

 
 
 
It Is ME
11  It Is ME    7 months ago

"it is about the failure to achieve a promising future for America's young ."

Lot's of "America's Young" made it "Before Bernie ". jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

These days...."Quickies" are the in-thing with "America's YOUNG ! jrSmiley_89_smiley_image.gif

"Hard Work" just doesn't cut it anymore (It's theirs, and they WANT IT NOW) ! jrSmiley_54_smiley_image.gif

By the Way....Bernie has been in DC for a bazillion years. Why Now..... is he "Promising" to supposedly to be able to ….. "Fix Things" ?

Was he way tooo busy with himself back when ?

 
 
 
Sparty On
11.1  Sparty On  replied to  It Is ME @11    7 months ago

Testify brother.

I'm glad i'm not far from punching out.

Trying to hire good people is depressing these days

 
 
 
It Is ME
11.1.1  It Is ME  replied to  Sparty On @11.1    7 months ago
Trying to hire good people is depressing these days

I'd rather do it myself these days. At least I won't bitch to myself for having to actually "Work".

 
 
 
Sparty On
11.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  It Is ME @11.1.1    7 months ago

Meh, Bernie wins, punch out with me and get some free stuff.  

I'm going back to college and take the easy route this time.   Perhaps Poli-Sci .... now thats some party time course work there ....

 
 
 
It Is ME
11.1.3  It Is ME  replied to  Sparty On @11.1.2    7 months ago

I figured I'd go to "Princeton" and Major in " Getting Dressed"

 
 
 
Sparty On
11.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  It Is ME @11.1.3    7 months ago

I hear "Sky Screaming" is another nice major these days along with "Safe Space" management and procedures in sucker punching.

 
 
 
DRHunk
12  DRHunk    7 months ago

Median salary of the boots on the ground employee generating income for their corporate masters $31,000.  Journeyman employees $48,974. Median Executives sitting behind a desk $197K. Median CEO income $7.4M

There are far more boots on the ground and journeyman employees than executives and CEOs.  It is those people struggling to feed, educate, house, and generally provide for their families.  It is those people that are the true working class and it is those people that you disparage with your insults. 

It will ultimately be those that have no choice but to vote for free education and healthcare because it is something they truly need, yet cannot afford because they are barely struggling to live as it is.

Education and healthcare should be a fundamental human right in this day and age.  A lot of EU countries do it quite well, others screw it up, but that is the same with anything.  We need to figure out how to do it well.

 
 
 
Dean Moriarty
12.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  DRHunk @12    7 months ago

No thanks I know what that means for me. I’m tea party and the tea stands for taxed enough already. 

384

 
 
 
DRHunk
12.1.1  DRHunk  replied to  Dean Moriarty @12.1    7 months ago

Makes for a great bumper sticker but your returns would tell a different story. If you take into account the taxes I paid to Fed, Medicare tax, and my Medical insurance premium I paid $19,504 last year.  Do you think that if we had Universal Healthcare I would have to continue to pay for Medicare or personal Insurance (at least at the current level I already do?)  The answer would be no..  Overall I might even get a break and only pay $15K for the year for the whole shebang instead of almost $20K

Just a thought. 

 
 
 
XDm9mm
12.1.2  XDm9mm  replied to  DRHunk @12.1.1    7 months ago
Just a thought.

Have you thought about all the other stuff Bernie wants to give away?

Your "universal health care" (aka medicare for all) will likely need a supplemental policy to pay for the things "medicare" doesn't pay for and don't forget all the illegals that will flock here for that freebie health care, and then add what you'll be paying for college for everyone, the price increases you'll be paying for basic essentials when his doubling of the minimum wage kicks in, the exponential increases in fuel to put in your vehicle to get from point a to point b, and don't forget to add in the additional costs of the federal bureaucracy to handle all that federal paperwork, and, well hopefully you get the idea.

Free ain't free....  there's always someone picking up the tab.   You'll wind up drooling over that measly $19,504 you spent and will wish for the good old days when that was your tab.

 
 
 
DRHunk
12.1.3  DRHunk  replied to  XDm9mm @12.1.2    7 months ago

Sounds pretty doom and gloom, and a little hyperbolic.   Once again it works in a lot of EU countries we need to see how they do it and work out a plan that works for us. "Medicare" for all is just a term, it is basically everything is covered there is no reason to get additional insurance unless you want to take part in the small private care that would develop to fill niche markets or satisfy those that are all "Screw the Government" types.  Look at Denmark as an example.

Secondly, the insurance companies handle all the red tape and paperwork now....at a profit... those same companies can be contracted out as a lot of services are so they can continue doing what it is they do best, push the paperwork.

Illegals already receive free healthcare...anyone who walks into a hospital is required to receive treatment to stabilize them or their wounds. Illegals however DO NOT qualify for ANY Social welfare programs, even today.  Their American Citizen children however do.

 Education...eh, tuition is so inflated already. State colleges used to be free and receive federal funding, we can go back to that model and let the over priced private colleges remain.

Minimum wage...If a business cannot afford to pay its employees who are working full time, wages that are not above the federal poverty limit, then they have a bad business model and need to rethink what they are doing. Anyone working full time should not have to suffer...the world needs ditch diggers and burger flippers all the same as doctors and lawyers, and no it is not high school students doing those jobs, those businesses are open during school hours and yes they are stepping stone jobs for high schoolers....hence they are not working full time.  

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.4  MUVA  replied to  DRHunk @12.1.3    7 months ago

One question have you ever run a business?

 
 
 
DRHunk
12.1.5  DRHunk  replied to  MUVA @12.1.4    7 months ago

Yes, I have started and sold two businesses and am working on a third and fourth business plan now.  All my businesses have a minimum wage of $12 an hour and profit sharing.  I am in business for the fun of it and for a small profit, I am not in it to soak my customers for every dime I can nor am I in it to try and get virtual slave labor. There is plenty of money to go around when a business is ran correctly and when the owner is not trying to take all they can and leave everyone else holding the bag. At one point in history businesses used to put their customers, product and employees first.  Today businesses always put profit first and don't even care about product quality, customer service or employee happiness.  There is no need to make millions as the owner if the people I rely on to generate those millions are only making 20K.  It is not a win win scenario. Sometimes small businesses cannot afford employees because the owners have a misguided expectation of their earnings, or what they think they are owed. They want the biggest piece of the pie, have to make $100K or more a year and use that business as their sole source of income before it is even profitable enough to do so. Those are the business where owners who don't want to pay a fair wage because it dips into what they think they are owed.  Just because you had a good idea and put it all together does not automatically earn you the biggest piece in the beginning, it will get there but only over time as the business grows and there will be some pain up front. There are many factors that play into all of these things but the gist is, if you have the right business model you can pay a fair wage to your employees and still be profitable...might not be to the profit you think you deserve, but there is still profit. That is why you grow the business until it is where you are happy and can make a nice living while ensuring everyone else who is helping you make those profits has a nice living also.  Then you sell it and start a new business with a fresh outlook and renewed vigor, unless it is your cosmic calling then you stay in it forever.

Anyway, I will step off my soapbox.

 
 
 
DRHunk
12.1.6  DRHunk  replied to  MUVA @12.1.4    7 months ago

To expand a bit and let you know where my mentality is on the term bad business models is this.  Franchises, where most of the low wage jobs are become money pits for the owners, they are told stories of glorious profits reigning down on them from the consumers above but in reality when you buy a franchise you are just buying yourself a job.  Most franchises earn less than $40K a year in profit to the owner of that franchise. Less if they are not actively running it themselves (the absentee franchisee).  Corporations take 15-20% off the top of Gross revenue, that equates to $150K in most franchise situations...hole shit I say the corporation is take all the cheddar and leaving me with crumbs.  Terrible business model, you will never be able to pay your employees more than minimum wage because you can barely afford to pay yourself.  It gets better once you own 3-4 locations but then you are just getting by and have invested some $5M.  Terrible business model to get into.

I say most as there are some very profitable franchises, (Chik Fil-a) but the corporation is still taking the 15-20% off the top.

 
 
 
Sparty On
12.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  DRHunk @12.1.6    7 months ago

I don't know.   I know a lot of very well off franchise holders.   In fact, i can't think of one that i would consider middle class or lower.   All live upper middle or higher from what i've seen.

 
 
 
MUVA
12.1.8  MUVA  replied to  DRHunk @12.1.5    7 months ago

I'm running a business that is 88 years old we pay what people are worth and I decide what that is.People in the real world don't start businesses to supply jobs they do it to make money.

 
 
 
TᵢG
12.1.9  TᵢG  replied to  MUVA @12.1.8    7 months ago

Spot on.   Left on its own, a business is a machine designed to increase profits (and increasing market share).   All other factors are choices made by the owners.   For example, owners might choose to sponsor community initiatives to 'give back'.   They might voluntarily incur additional costs to be environmentally responsible.   ...

 
 
 
Tacos!
12.1.10  Tacos!  replied to  MUVA @12.1.8    7 months ago
a business that is 88 years old

With the taxes on inheritance and wealth that Sanders and Warren propose, I have to wonder whether it will continue to be possible for small businesses to exist for that long in the future.

 
 
 
DRHunk
12.1.11  DRHunk  replied to  Sparty On @12.1.7    7 months ago

hence the "there are some that are still profitable"  and I know those owners you know also own more than one franchise. I know many successful franchisors also, all own upwards of 4-6 franchises to be "well off" and pay as little as possible to their employees and under staff all their restaurants.  They are just not my cup of tea, not enough return, very volatile.  Creating your own business and cultivating your own ideas is where the real money is.

 
 
 
Sparty On
12.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  DRHunk @12.1.11    7 months ago

Meh ..... in our business its that people who start new businesses fail to grasp how much hard work it really is.   People start new businesses and think they are going to get by working a 40 hour work week or less.

Very few new businesses will survive with that mindset.

I bet its much the same with franchise businesses

 
 
 
Sparty On
12.2  Sparty On  replied to  DRHunk @12    7 months ago

Yeah buddy, i'm all in for the free shit.  

Although i am a bit skeptical since i'm still waiting on my Obama phone and that was promised years ago.

Bernie isn't lying like Obama lied..... is he?

 
 
 
Sparty On
14  Sparty On    7 months ago

Too many people think they are going to get a free lunch and there is no such thing.   Someone has to pay for it.  And It's also ironic that so many think "fair share" means higher taxes on those just above their own pay scale.   The concept of being okay with getting something, simply because someone else is going to pay for it, is the epitome of wrong-minded and a non starter IMO.

In my perfect world ALL employers would pay ALL the economic burden of their own employees.   Not the government and certainly not only "rich" people.   That means employers would be responsible for all employee health and welfare including health care and pensions.

The party (customer) using the employers services being provided ultimately bears the burden in this plan.   Right where it belongs in my opinion.   But many people are not going to like that very much because it means a lot of costs of services would go up.   Some significantly.

A more truly fair minded system does not exists IMO.

 
 
 
TᵢG
14.1  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @14    7 months ago
In my perfect world ALL employers would pay ALL the economic burden of their own employees.  

The closest thing to that might be workplace democracy wherein the employees (workers) are all owners of the business and participate (democratically, albeit mostly indirect) in business decisions.   Here the employees have a highly vested interest in the business.   The better the business does, the better they do.   This model is starting to get its legs, but it will grow (if it continues) at a generational pace because this requires societal evolution (which is very slow).

 
 
 
Sparty On
14.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  TᵢG @14.1    7 months ago
The closest thing to that might be workplace democracy wherein the employees (workers) are all owners of the business and participate (democratically, albeit mostly indirect) in business decisions.

I disagree.   Main reason in our case being most of my people are very good at what they do but their understand of what it takes to successfully run a business that utilizes people who are very good at what they do, is very sophomoric.   And i don't mean that in a bad way.   For the most part they simply don't have the experience or business savvy to do so.   They are experts in the doing, not the managing.    Not everyone can master those two very different things.   Yeah most of them think they can, some can, some even leave and start their own similar business because they think they can and there's a reason the majority of them are back looking for their job back in a year or two.   There is a lot more to it than meets the eye and most fail because of it.

   Here the employees have a highly vested interest in the business.   The better the business does, the better they do.   This model is starting to get its legs, but it will grow (if it continues) at a generational pace because this requires societal evolution (which is very slow).

Employee owned businesses are nothing new.   I for one would love doing that if it was a viable option for us but for multiple reasons, one of them mentioned above, it just wouldn't work.   Now if a mandate came down that everyone in our business was on an even playing field and ALL had to encumber ALL of their employees health and welfare costs, we would be cooking with gas.   But as i said earlier, it probably will never happen because the effect would cause consumer costs for many products to go up.   Other cost like healthcare premiums and such would go down and/or go away completely but again there is no free lunch.   That money will get spent elsewhere.

The biggest reason that will never happen is because it will tend to punish lower pay scale people the most since they are the one catching the most breaks via our current  system.   That would stop to a great degree if most consumer products go up in price.    They will be the hardest hit with those every day higher prices

 
 
 
TᵢG
14.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Sparty On @14.1.1    7 months ago
Main reason in our case being most of my people are very good at what they do but their understand of what it takes to successfully run a business that utilizes people who are very good at what they do, is very sophomoric.  

That is an entirely different point.   You talked about the business covering healthcare, etc. for employees.   I pointed out to you that workplace democracy businesses are inherently oriented in that fashion.    I am not suggesting that USA businesses can or even should convert and certainly not suggesting that employees can simply invert into co-owner / managers.   That is not realistic; this would be evolutionary at a generational pace. 

I will say, however, that this is possible over time as evidenced by coops like Mondragon.   But to do this, the people cannot think like most workers in the USA.

Employee owned businesses are nothing new. 

Why are you bringing this up?   Again, the viability today of this form of organization in the USA was never my point.  

 
 
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