Louisiana church hosts over 1,800 people despite social distance warning during coronavirus pandemic

  
Via:  krishna  •  3 days ago  •  91 comments

By:   Fox News

Louisiana church hosts over 1,800 people despite social distance warning during coronavirus pandemic
Pastor Tony Spell said the healing hand of Jesus is how the pandemic should be handled.

512

Graphic: Sword-in-Hand Weblog

Related (Satire): Just As President Trump Saved My Life, He’s Fighting To Save Yours Too!


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T


CENTRAL, La. - A Louisiana church attracted more than 1,800 people to their Sunday service, despite warnings from health officials to practice social distancing.

WGMB reports that 26 buses picked people up from around the Baton Rouge Area and transported them to Life Tabernacle Chruch in the town of Central for Sunday service.

Despite the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warning the public to practice social distancing to stop the spread of coronavirus, the parishioners could be seen gathered closely together -- very few wearing masks or gloves.

Pastor Tony Spell said the healing hand of Jesus is how the pandemic should be handled.

He said if anyone in his congregation is infected with COVID-19, he will heal them through God.


Tags

jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
[]
 
Krishna
1  seeder  Krishna    3 days ago

320

Some people are not following Social Distancing orders.

They state that you are supposed to avoid large gatherings and stay at least 6 feet away from other people (see photo, above) in order to prevent the spread of the virus.

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Krishna @1    3 days ago
Some people are not following Social Distancing orders.

Some people are practically asking to be infected. We might need lots of Darwin awards too. 

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    3 days ago
Some people are not following Social Distancing orders.
Some people are practically asking to be infected. We might need lots of Darwin awards too. 

Actually that was my thought as well (the Darwin Awards). Obviously those 3 women in the video didn't want to miss their Spring Break-- even if it meant risking getting the Corona Virus,. But what I found especially interesting was what one of them said:

We have strong immune systems.

How does she know that?

(Which reminds me of a lot of the comments here on NT in political discussions-- people often make statements with no basis in fact-- sometimes I think they just say the first thing that pops into their heads).

 
 
 
Gordy327
1.1.2  Gordy327  replied to  Krishna @1.1.1    3 days ago
(Which reminds me of a lot of the comments here on NT in political discussions-- people often make statements with no basis in fact-- sometimes I think they just say the first thing that pops into their heads).

I tend to agree.

 
 
 
Krishna
1.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    2 hours ago

Some people are practically asking to be infected. We might need lots of Darwin awards too. 

Yep.

In our line of work you shake hands.The president will continue to do it I will continue to do it. --Vice President, role model, and Pandemic Expert Mike Pence

 
 
 
sixpick
1.1.4  sixpick  replied to  Krishna @1.1.1    an hour ago
(Which reminds me of a lot of the comments here on NT in political discussions-- people often make statements with no basis in fact-- sometimes I think they just say the first thing that pops into their heads).

What a profound statement, Krishna!  But on another note, I heard this the other day, "Herd Immunity".  I guess many people are going to become infected either now or later, unless at least one of two things happens.

The first one is a vaccination for this virus and/or the second one, enough people become infected and survive gaining an immunity against this virus.

If more people become immune to this virus, we will come in contact with less infected people.  Of course, a vaccination for this virus is the best solution and that is if enough people get vaccinated.  A vaccination is somewhat like "Herd Immunity".

I guess my point is there are lots of people who just aren't concerned like others are.  They don't take precautions and are some of the first people to become infected. 

I guess that's alright if you're 25, but if you 60, tough and if you're 70 or above, nice knowing you.  Now before someone gets knotted up, I know that is not always the case, but they've put the fear in our society.  In the end we will look back and be able to analyze just how bad this virus was and even how bad it could have been.

Personally, I think these people are unknowingly selfish.  We could say their selfishness comes from ignorance, but I think it also could be they don't have any faith in their government.  They don't have any faith in their media, but most of all, they aren't using any common sense.

I can't believe these people would intentionally cause harm to those they love, but when people put their lives at risk, loved one's lives and many others lives at risk, when all they had to do was use a little common sense to lower that risk significantly, you have to wonder, why?

 
 
 
Krishna
2  seeder  Krishna    3 days ago

Now I know that some of you Non-Believers here on NT may be skeptical . . .even angry...at this, But seriously folks-- wouldn't you rather experience the Healing Hand of Jesus--- than resort to drinking fish bowl cleaner?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Krishna @2    3 days ago
wouldn't you rather experience the Healing Hand of Jesus

No.  

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.1    3 days ago
wouldn't you rather experience the Healing Hand of Jesus
No.  

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
2.1.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Krishna @2.1.1    3 days ago

Sorry, I just don't give in to the mass delusion of "god".  Especially given the source of "information" on this deity.  It portrays it as a vindictive god that, if you don't do as it wished, it annihilates everybody and everything.  Not to mention that the followers have used violence and threats of violence to obtain obedience.

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.1.2    yesterday
Sorry, I just don't give in to the mass delusion of "god".  Especially given the source of "information" on this deity.  It portrays it as a vindictive god that, if you don't do as it wished, it annihilates everybody and everything.  Not to mention that the followers have used violence and threats of violence to obtain obedience.

IMO that's quite an over-generalization.

Probably applies to "the God of the Old Testiment". But not all believers believe that.

Are you familiar, by any chance, with the Quakers? The Bahai? Many (most?) branches of Buddhism? The Jains? Definitely the followers of Taoism! The Yazidis? The Sikhs?

And and probably  probably most branches of Hinduism (which BTW is the third largest religion in the entire World).

 
 
 
Krishna
2.1.4  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @2.1.3    yesterday
probably most

I said "probably" because, as the oldest religion in the world, Hinduism not surprisingly has more branches/denominations than any of the other religion-- and obviously I'm not familiar with them all, LOL. jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

(I'm not including some other approaches, like  generalized types of practices such as "Sun worship" etc. Also not Wicca because I'm not too familiar with all denominations-- although I've had friends who were practicing Wiccans . . .).

And then, of course, There's Scientology, which IMO is pure evil....

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
2.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Krishna @2    15 hours ago

I prefer the healing power of cheesecake and 180 proof internal virus killer.

 
 
 
Gordy327
2.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @2.2    15 hours ago

Now that's medicine! Lol

 
 
 
Gordy327
3  Gordy327    3 days ago
 But seriously folks-- wouldn't you rather experience the Healing Hand of Jesus--- than resort to drinking fish bowl cleaner?

The difference is, one is just a placebo. The other will kill you. I choose actual medical science and intervention, thank you. That's the only thing that will get results and save lives.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @3    yesterday
The difference is, one is just a placebo.

Two questions:

1. Do you think "the healing hand of Jesus" is neutral (i.e. that while it can't heal you it can't help you either) or that it could actually harm you?

2. If it is a placebo-- and if it actually created the desired results-- what's wrong with that?

BTW, while I'm not a big fan of any conventional organized religion, I myself have learned a form of hands-on Healing: Reiki. I've been doing it for over 30 years. And I can attest to the fact that those healing powers are real-- as can many other people I've done it to.

In the beginning I was so amazed that for a few weeks I did it on most people I knew. But then didn't do that anymore-- just do it on myself. 

OK, I lied-- I actually have three questions. Question # 3: do you believe that Acupuncture actually works-- or do you believe that it only has a Placebo effect?

 
 
 
Gordy327
3.1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Krishna @3.1    yesterday
1. Do you think "the healing hand of Jesus" is neutral (i.e. that while it can't heal you it can't help you either) or that it could actually harm you?

Neutral. It won't do anything, good or bad. At best, it might give the recipient some measure of emotional or mental comfort.

2. If it is a placebo-- and if it actually created the desired results-- what's wrong with that?

Nothing. Although I'd question what actually created the desired results.

And I can attest to the fact that those healing powers are real-- as can many other people I've done it to.

I'll take your word for it. 

Question #3: do you believe that Acupuncture actually works-- or do you believe that it only has a Placebo effect?

It depends. Like some other forms of alternative medicine, the effectiveness of such therapies seems to be more of a case of "mind over matter." If one actually believes such therapies help, the mind might actually trick them into feeling some form of relief (depending on what condition is being "treated"). Studies indicate acupuncture can be helpful to treat pain, if used in conjunction with other therapies. But it won't help other forms of health issues.

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.1    2 hours ago
Studies indicate acupuncture can be helpful to treat pain, if used in conjunction with other therapies. But it won't help other forms of health issues.

Well, once again its my experience vs "Studies". 

(I've been going to Acupuncture off and on for many years. And I've had some profound results).

But again, here's an interesting question: if someone has had some medical condition they've tried treating with many modalities for years-- all in vain-- and then they try Acupuncture and it works! Does it matter if its a "placebo"-- or if its not a Placebo but rather endorsed by the AMA? 

 
 
 
Krishna
3.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Gordy327 @3.1.1    2 hours ago
But it won't help other forms of health issues.

Almost correct-- need a slight change to be totally factual:

Studies indicate that it won't help other forms of health issues.

 
 
 
CB
4  CB     3 days ago

original   Okay, I get the 'difficulty' of old habits being hard to break. However, I think we all could be a little more comfortable with our officer standing back to say, oh, near the read line on the 'porch' as he discusses matters with the parishioners. It would cause this clip to be a useful illustration training tool for sure.

 
 
 
Krishna
4.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  CB @4    3 days ago

 However, I think we all could be a little more comfortable with our officer standing back to say, oh, near the read line on the 'porch' as he discusses matters with the parishioners. It would cause this clip to be a useful illustration training tool for sure.

Good point!

And BTW, anyone notice anything peculiar about the photo in comment # 1? 

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
4.1.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Krishna @4.1    3 days ago
And BTW, anyone notice anything peculiar about the photo in comment # 1? 

Other than the fact that everyone has the same 'who farted in the elevator' look, I got nothin'.  It can't be that they are all up on each other because that's the point. It must have something to do with glasses guy, or the guy who is standing behind Pence.  ???

 
 
 
lady in black
5  lady in black    3 days ago

Moronic imbeciles every one of them.

 
 
 
Krishna
6  seeder  Krishna    3 days ago

Moronic imbeciles every one of them.

Are you referring to the people in the video-- or Dear Leader's co-conspirators in the photo in comment # 1?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
6.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Krishna @6    3 days ago
Are you referring to the people in the video--

The imbeciles in the video.  The 1800 imbeciles in LA.  And all for what?  To hear somebody read a piece of fiction?

 
 
 
lady in black
6.2  lady in black  replied to  Krishna @6    3 days ago

The "church" going folks who God skipped over in the brain and common sense department.

 
 
 
Gordy327
6.2.1  Gordy327  replied to  lady in black @6.2    3 days ago
The "church" going folks who God skipped over in the brain and common sense department.

Religion often requires one to suspend critical thinking. So I suppose it's not unlikely that common sense would go too.

 
 
 
Goodtime Charlie
7  Goodtime Charlie    3 days ago

Pastor Spell and his congregation aren't using the common sense God gave them if any of them die from COVID-19 they'll go to the Darwin room.

 
 
 
Gordy327
7.1  Gordy327  replied to  Goodtime Charlie @7    3 days ago
Pastor Spell and his congregation aren't using the common sense God gave them if any of them die from COVID-19 they'll go to the Darwin room.

They probably believe god will protect or save them from Covid. Or perhaps god will personally hand out the Darwin awards to them, Lol

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
7.2  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Goodtime Charlie @7    3 days ago
aren't using the common sense God gave them

I wish I had a buck for every time my mother made a similar comment to me.  I could afford to buy my brother's beautiful lakeside abode and have him thrown out of it.

 
 
 
lady in black
8  lady in black    3 days ago

Maybe they can learn from this church:

Arkansas pastor, wife, 'dozens' in church infected with COVID-19, he says

https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/arkansas-pastor-wife-church-infected-covid-19

 
 
 
Freefaller
8.1  Freefaller  replied to  lady in black @8    3 days ago
Maybe they can learn from this church:

Lol but probably won't

 
 
 
CB
9  CB     3 days ago

The Bible clarifies:

  1. Jesus is the Son of God.
  2. Jesus is the Lord of the Fundamentalist Christians (and many such other

However, Jesus said we should not put God to the Test and Jesus knowing God did not do so after this manner:

Matthew 4.

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ [ c ]

Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

Though Jesus knew the power inherent in prophecy; wisdom is a proven guide and applicable to each situation in our lives. Moral to this story:  'Think before leaping.'

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  CB @9    3 days ago

I agree.

Jesus preached what he preached.

There are a lot of stupid people in this world.

If they want to misinterpret what Jesus taught,...its certainly not his fault....

An old saying:

There's no fixin' stuck on stupid!

 
 
 
Ender
9.1.1  Ender  replied to  Krishna @9.1    3 days ago

What I was always taught about the religion and Jesus, my main take away was selflessness.

That main tenet that I was taught is no more.

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.2  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @9.1    3 days ago

I'm a big fan of "old sayings".

Here's another:

The Devil can quote Scripture for jis purpose.

(I knew it was from Shakespeare but wasn't sure where...so I googled it. Turns out if Its from Merchant of Venice, Act I Scene III)

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Ender @9.1.1    3 days ago

What I was always taught about the religion and Jesus, my main take away was selflessness.

That main tenet that I was taught is no more.

Well, sometimes it sure seems that way. But there are still some exceptions (just that most of the folks that still hold to that teaching are not the sort of people who spend much of their time... Ahem...on "social media" sites! jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png ). 

Actually I think a lot of these principles have been handed down for generations...even centuries... by true spiritual leaders. 

In this case, there once was some highly revered ancient Hebrew sage. One of his students asked him:

Rabbi, can you teach me the entire essence of (some holy book, I forget which one) while I am standing on one foot?

The wise man replied:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there are even more ancient spiritual; paths that teach basically the same thing albeit using a different allegory but one that has the same meaning..

 
 
 
CB
9.1.4  CB   replied to  Krishna @9.1.2    3 days ago

It may explain why Jesus stated:

Matthew 16: 16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents [devils]* and innocent as doves [peace-makers]*.

Believers are intended to voluntarily study to KNOW the depth, height, width, and breadth of their Christian subject-matter. Parcticularly, in the area of understanding what is at the heart of their faith.

* Insertions mine.

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.5  seeder  Krishna  replied to  CB @9.1.4    yesterday
Believers are intended to voluntarily study to KNOW the depth, height, width, and breadth of their Christian subject-matter. Parcticularly, in the area of understanding what is at the heart of their faith.

I think that's the "Catch-22" with any religion. Some people will totally do that, others will do it half-way, others not at all. 

I suppose the idea is that if even a portion of the population does it, it will still be a great improvement over what existed previously.

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.6  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @9.1.5    yesterday
I think that's the "Catch-22" with any religion

In fact IMO that can be expanded to any belief system, be it religion, politics, science, psychology, etc.

 
 
 
CB
9.1.7  CB   replied to  Krishna @9.1.5    yesterday
I suppose the idea is that if even a portion of the population does it, it will still be a great improvement over what existed previously.

The ones who study (long) advance, develop, and begin to formulate a construct which can stand the test of time. Metaphorically, they are trees planted beside the river.

 
 
 
bccrane
9.1.8  bccrane  replied to  CB @9.1.4    16 hours ago
Matthew 16: 16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents [devils]* and innocent as doves [peace-makers]*.

There are other ways to interpret that.  My insertions would be that serpents would mean to be determined to move forward towards your goals, no backing up, and as for doves as you move forward be mindful of dangers and be quick to respond.

 
 
 
bccrane
9.1.9  bccrane  replied to  CB @9.1.7    15 hours ago

Sorry, but metaphorically, in our area the trees planted beside the river are the first to be swept away with the change of the current.

 
 
 
CB
9.1.10  CB   replied to  bccrane @9.1.9    9 hours ago

BcCrane, that would not be a proper use of my metaphor! (Smile.)

tree-planted-by-a-river.jpg STABILITY.  Permanence. ROOTED.
Image credit: www.walkinginword.com/like-a-tree-planted-by-the-rivers-of-water

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.11  seeder  Krishna  replied to  CB @9.1.7    2 hours ago
Metaphorically, they are trees planted beside the river.

That brings to mind:

For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.

-Jeremiah, 17:8

 
 
 
CB
9.1.12  CB   replied to  Krishna @9.1.11    2 hours ago

Emphatically!

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.13  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @9.1.11    2 hours ago

And now that I think of it:

He is like a tree planted by streams of water, yielding its fruit in season, whose leaf does not wither, and who prospers in all he does. --Psalms,1:3

That meme in an old Gospel song;

 
 
 
CB
9.1.14  CB   replied to  Krishna @9.1.13    2 hours ago

Emphatically. You done my soul right just now!

New York be blessed and hold on! Just like a tree standing by the river - don't let go!

 
 
 
Krishna
9.1.15  seeder  Krishna  replied to  bccrane @9.1.9    2 hours ago
Sorry, but metaphorically, in our area the trees planted beside the river are the first to be swept away with the change of the current.

Well in that case the trees in your area must be non-believers! jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
TᵢG
10  TᵢG    3 days ago
Pastor Tony Spell said the healing hand of Jesus is how the pandemic should be handled.  He said if anyone in his congregation is infected with COVID-19, he will heal them through God.

Given this glaring example, I think I will repeat my comment of two weeks ago.   Let's see if it is carefully read this time or if it is once again willfully misread:

A prime example of the problem with religious belief.   Those who truly believe that God has things covered are not going to be as likely to take actions necessary to contain its spread.

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @10    yesterday
A prime example of the problem with religious belief.   Those who truly believe that God has things covered are not going to be as likely to take actions necessary to contain its spread.

Well to play Devil's Advocate for a moment (pun intended) I would change that a bit:

A prime example of the problem with some religious beliefs  Those who truly believe that God has things covered

Well, you actually did say that if I understand you:

Those who truly believe that .

Which to me, implies (hopefully)that you are willing to concede that not all religious believers believe God has things covered.

(I've noticed that some do, and some don't)

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @10.1    yesterday

I used to get into discussions about that question.

But I am no longer very interested in spending a lot of time arguing about "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin".

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @10.1    yesterday
Well, you actually did say that if I understand you:

The problem with religious beliefs is that they are not based on facts.    I offered one example of this.   I could go through any religion and offer an example of this problem.

Which to me, implies (hopefully)that you are willing to concede that not all religious believers believe God has things covered.

By the use of the phrase 'those who truly believe' I am explicitly talking about a subset of believers.   That subset are those who truly believe God has things covered.   Clearly that is not all believers;  very likely a minority.

My words never state 'all' but rather directly connote 'fewer than all'.

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    yesterday
The problem with religious beliefs is that they are not based on facts.    I offered one example of this.   I could go through any religion and offer an example of this problem.

Ok. 

To take this one step further-- Over the years I have experienced many things to be fact. Some of which can be proven (and therefore can be convincing to (most) other people. But of the things I know to be fact (due to my own experiences) many I cannot prove to anyone else. 

(Actually I suppose that brings up another question--- if you know (are "sure") that something is a fact but cannot prove it to others-- does that mean you are wrong-- that it is not actually true?)

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.4  seeder  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    yesterday
By the use of the phrase 'those who truly believe' I am explicitly talking about a subset of believers.   That subset are those who truly believe God has things covered.   Clearly that is not all believers;  very likely a minority.

OK, now I see what you mean. (I misinterpreted it...probably because I read over it too quickly

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
10.1.5  Larry Hampton  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    yesterday

It isn’t an uncommon belief that God built the entirety of existence and just sorta put it on autopilot. Ya know, set the ground rules and then, let it spin. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @10.1.3    yesterday
if you know (are "sure") that something is a fact but cannot prove it to others-- does that mean you are wrong-- that it is not actually true?

An individual 'knowing' something is fact does not in any way mean that the perceived fact is true.

It does not mean the individual is wrong, it just means that the individual's claim of truth is unsubstantiated; it is simply an opinion.

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Larry Hampton @10.1.5    yesterday

Those who hold that belief are then the opposite of those I am referencing.   Those who think God does not necessarily have our backs will likely take more precautions than those who believe God has this covered.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
10.1.8  Larry Hampton  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.6    yesterday

Perhaps. Put it another way: you see and hear the tree fall in the woods, just before the forest fire burns it up. Upon later sharing their observation, an observation that can’t be substantiated, a question about the veracity of the event arises. Is it true that the tree fell, or was it an opinion?

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.9  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @10.1.5    yesterday
It isn’t an uncommon belief that God built the entirety of existence and just sorta put it on autopilot. Ya know, set the ground rules and then, let it spin. 

I have been involved in many "philosophical" (or maybe it should be called "theosophical" discussions of that topic. Often it starts with a discussion of the topic "Does Man have Free will"?

And generally speaking, there are (obviously) two opinions on the subject:

1. What you just mentioned-- that God created everything--- and then stopped having anything to do with it, Just "sat back and watched it". But doesn't intervene.

2. Of course the other POV is that God created the Universe, and then She keeps "meddling" in it-- exerts some sort of forces to change things, to make things happen.

I'm not sure which is more common. My guess is that its what you said--  that the belief that God stops acting after the creation is less common

(Possibly because if God no longer has any say as to what occurs, then that would mean that people would have to take responsibility for their lives-- and most people don't want to do that, LOL!!!).

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.10  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @10.1.9    yesterday
(Possibly because if God no longer has any say as to what occurs, then that would mean that people would have to take responsibility for their lives-- and most people don't want to do that, LOL!!!).

Even some common religious sayings, such as 

"God works in mysterious ways"

seems to be saying that God is acting, is doing things to determine or alter results.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
10.1.11  Larry Hampton  replied to  Krishna @10.1.9    yesterday

It’s interesting in that humans have not always believed these ways. The very first religious aspirations by humans was Animism. In that ontological perspective, the sacred was found in the natural world around them, and between them. The belief system (if it can be described thusly) did not call for a divinity, or any supernatural beings at all. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  Larry Hampton @10.1.8    yesterday
Perhaps. Put it another way: you see and hear the tree fall in the woods, just before the forest fire burns it up. Upon later sharing their observation, an observation that can’t be substantiated, a question about the veracity of the event arises. Is it true that the tree fell, or was it an opinion?

It is an unsubstantiated truth.   To everyone other than the individual, it is an opinion.

Also, the nature of the claim makes a big difference.   Most people would take the opinion as fact that a tree fell in the woods and was consumed by the fire.   It is likely and there are hardly no negative consequences to taking the observer at his/her word.

Contrast this with the claim that God will not lot the virus harm 'true' Christians.   That is a claim that certainly needs supporting evidence and the consequences of the belief could be dire.

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.13  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @10.1.8    yesterday

That's a question that philosophers and other have been debating for ages (If a tree falls in the woods and no one observes it...did it actually happen?

BTW IIRC  there's an interesting phenomenon in Advanced Physics that's somewhat related to this discussion-- The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It has to do with observing subatomic particles. 

IIRC, If you observe a sub-atomic particle in order to determine its characteristics (its speed, mass, etc.)...well you can't do it. Why" Because this principle says that the very act of observing it changes its characteristics.

Which is a bit paradoxical I suppose. (Its either Advanced Quantum Physics-- or the principles of Ancient Hinduism....which some people feel are not very different...)

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.14  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @10.1.13    yesterday

Of course when it comes to The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle-- truth be told I'm not entirely sure about it ....

 
 
 
CB
10.1.15  CB   replied to  Krishna @10.1.10    yesterday

Actually, the saying means God has a plan that has not been shared completely with his stewards, humanity. Humanity can not understand what say the purpose of death is to the eternal plan of God. Or why there is a  need for this specific three-dimensional existence. Among an infinite number of unanswered ponderings.

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
10.1.16  Larry Hampton  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.12    yesterday

The degree to which a statement is believable, is certainly another part of the equation. Belief that birds can fly is much easier than, let’s say, believing that hogs can do the same. 

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
10.1.17  Larry Hampton  replied to  Krishna @10.1.13    yesterday

I am completely fascinated by this, and have been following as closely as my lack of expertise in the subject allows. 
The implications are boggling. The very thought that we may be able to change the behavior of matter simply by observing it, deserves a flurry of research. As well, it also opens up discussion about the the nature of unexplained phenomena, some religious. 

 
 
 
CB
10.1.18  CB   replied to  Krishna @10.1.9    yesterday
2. Of course the other POV is that God created the Universe, and then She keeps "meddling" in it-- exerts some sort of forces to change things, to make things happen.

My friend, what if God is above humanity's political correctness and provocation. That is, God is Spirit and without requirement to gender/sexual personification?

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.19  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @10.1.11    2 hours ago
the sacred was found in the natural world around them, and between them. The belief system (if it can be described thusly) did not call for a divinity, or any supernatural beings at all.

I suppose that you could say that the system did not call for divinity-- that is a being (a divinity) that was separate from us. 

IIRC in many Western religions, it seems implied that God is separate from us, a different being.  But in many Eastern religions there is a POV that the separation is an illusion-- that everything is one.

 
 
 
Krishna
10.1.20  seeder  Krishna  replied to  TᵢG @10.1.2    an hour ago
The problem with religious beliefs is that they are not based on facts.    I offered one example of this.   I could go through any religion and offer an example of this problem.

But...who is that a problem for? (Its a problem for you-- but its not a problem for the believers!!!)

Actually most religious believers I know what not attempt to argue that point (they will not even try to argue that their religious views are based on facts. Rather, most of the one I know will say its based on faitie, For non-believers that's not a satisfactory answer-- but for religious believers they are fine with that explanation).

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.21  TᵢG  replied to  Krishna @10.1.20    an hour ago

The example problem I offered was the topic of your seed.

It might not be a perceived problem for those believers who fail to take appropriate precautions against this virus, but it is a societal problem.

Seems to me it is a societal problem that there are people gathering and mixing without taking appropriate precautions.

Why you deem this simply a problem for me is a mystery.   Seriously, krishna, et. al. do you not recognize the societal problem of those not taking precautions because they believe God has things covered?

 
 
 
CB
10.1.22  CB   replied to  TᵢG @10.1.21    51 minutes ago

Hi TiG, God has never directed anybody to let their faith overrule natural dangers God has placed in the Earth. Part of faith is praying for the wisdom to understand those "minefields" in life not designed to walk through. For instance, fire will burn us, gas will snatch away oxygen from our lungs, electricity will fry us, and disease will pollute our bodies, of the faithful—same as anybody others. What we do to avoid the effects of these causes, or once we become a victim to any one or several of these causes makes those differences according to our faith.

God gives science to humanity to be a steward of its advancement and a capacity to self-manage the advancement of this world it inhabits. Thus, unless this Pastor Spelling has been given specific directives on how to cure the Coronavirus from God, it is presumption to think this microbe will "obey" his order to stand down.

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.23  TᵢG  replied to  CB @10.1.22    44 minutes ago
God has never directed anybody to let their faith overrule natural dangers God has placed in the Earth.

Then these folks are doubly misguided.


Do you recognize the societal problem of those not taking precautions because they believe God has things covered?

I remain mystified why anyone would answer the above question 'no'.   Yet that is the example I gave in my comment.

 
 
 
CB
10.1.24  CB   replied to  TᵢG @10.1.23    34 minutes ago

Yes, I do recognize the problem and I wonder why the state does not require more accountability from anybody who flouts public health. Such health the state (community on the flip-side of the separation 'wall') is responsible for properly patrolling and controlling; I am an observant of when the state relaxes its shield in front of the politics of religious power, influence, and wealth. The Church is steward of spiritual health.

Faith is another shield in its own right to be wielded by the faithful, I do not see where it can properly be used as a sword to use to launch out against an infectious virus intent to slay the masses!

 
 
 
TᵢG
10.1.25  TᵢG  replied to  CB @10.1.24    24 minutes ago

Good.   @10.1.20 is thus a mystery to me.   Clearly this is not 'my' problem.

When people operate on beliefs that are not grounded in facts, they have the means to engage in actions that are detrimental to society while thinking they are acting admirably.

  • This seed shows one example.
  • Islamic terrorists killing infidels is another.
  • Honor killings is another.
  • Homosexual killings / abuse is another.
  • On and on we can go with these examples.  

And this is not a suggestion that all religious beliefs are harmful or that irreligious people are not capable of anti-societal behavior.   Rather it is the observation that if one is willing to accept what some other human being merely claims as truth' and does not engage in at least reasonable skepticism (ideally critical thinking), that individual is now vulnerable to engage in detrimental activities.    For example, think of the many tragic ends to cults because the members simply believed whatever their insane leader told them to believe.

 
 
 
CB
10.1.26  CB   replied to  TᵢG @10.1.25    15 minutes ago
think of the many tragic ends to cults because the members simply believed whatever their insane leader told them to believe.

This is why faith in God is a 'thinking man's, woman's, boy's, and girl's 'religion, in order that past experiences shall enlighten others. I, for my part, look in the 'Word' to find meanings for life and living, not for ways of yielding to any temptations of rushing out in front of every possibility of exposing myself to personal arrogance, delusion, and certain death.

 
 
 
Krishna
11  seeder  Krishna    yesterday

BTW if it seems I'm just being "argumentative"..well in one sense that true. But unlike many people online who argue because its important to them to be "right"-- or important to prove other people to be "wrong") I do it for another reason-- I am a very curious person. In addition, I have a tendency to try to uncover facts by discussing ("arguing") with other people.

For a long time I wondered why this was so-- then I learned about the Myers-Briggs Typology Inventory (AKA "The MBTI"). And in that system I am an " ENTP", often called "The Debater".

For the most part. we don't usually argue in order to be "Right". Or even to convince other people of something (for example trying to convert them to a different political or religious viewpoint). 

Rather we have what I believe is a fairly uncommon trait-- we argue as a way of learning stuff. And secondarily, we argue because we often enjoy it. 

P.S; I'm not an expert in the MBTI, but of the 16 types in that system, my guess is that you're probably an INTJ .

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
11.1  Larry Hampton  replied to  Krishna @11    yesterday

Great stuff Krish. Bouncing ideas and questions off each other will lead to differences, but is a superb way to learn. 

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @11.1    yesterday

Great stuff Krish. Bouncing ideas and questions off each other will lead to differences, but is a superb way to learn. 

Well, of course its one way to learn. But in a sense I can't help it-- as an ENTP that's what we do-- often without thinking about it!

Of course I could do what's much more politically correct on Social Media sites such as NT-- if I think I'm "losing" the argument I could try to change the subject...instead of actually discussing the topic, I could attempt to derail the conversation by changing the discussion to a series of personal attacks on the other person.

(But then again, in my perience, most of the people who spend a lot of time on Social media sites really aren't too bright)..

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
11.1.2  Larry Hampton  replied to  Krishna @11.1.1    yesterday

I can say that blogging has led me on an unexpected journey of education and growth. After a while I simply couldn’t participate without being intellectual honest with myself. Growth doesn’t occur without change, it is fostered in hardship, and struggle, as well as nourishment and a supportive environment. 

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @11.1.2    2 hours ago
 a supportive environment. 

Such as, for example, NT? Or even, for that matter, a site such as NV...(Peace Be Upon It!).

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
11.1.4  Larry Hampton  replied to  Krishna @11.1.3    2 hours ago

Actually, yes! 
I was such a hard core noob; ultra conservative and fairly ignorant about many issues. There were folks who put up with my foolishness, practiced patience, and imparted wisdom when I would accept it. I had run-ins with a few Liberals on NV that allowed for opportunities to get smacked around like a rag-doll; but, it pushed me to ask Lottsa questions and research like crazy. The internet was a whole new frontier, and blogging provided me an overview that I needed, to navigate the vagaries of the web. If it wasn’t for really nice and kind people willing to share, I doubt that I would have ever gotten past many old preconceptions and prejudices. 

 
 
 
Larry Hampton
11.1.5  Larry Hampton  replied to  Larry Hampton @11.1.4    2 hours ago

Makes me think of Gillis,,, what a dude!

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.6  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @11.1.4    an hour ago

That's interesting. My experience has been quite different, but now I understand what you experienced. 

 
 
 
Krishna
11.1.7  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Larry Hampton @11.1.5    an hour ago
Makes me think of Gillis,,, what a dude!

Was it that you were rigidly Right-wing, and the Liberals there were not tolerant of that-- and nasty to you...but Gillis was the only one (the only Liberal) there that was open minded and tolerant of your views? Took the time and had the patience to discuss things with you-- respectfully! ???

NV was an overwhelmingly Liberal site-- I often wondered why the Conservatives there stayed--  life would've been easier for them if they went to a Conservative site-- or even a mixed site like NT.

I don't know if you know it but for years he was my closest friend on NV. 

We had a lot of communications over the years that wasn't visible to other people there.

He is also extremely brilliant intellectually. 

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
12  Buzz of the Orient    yesterday
Why should anyone be surprised? Isn't America The Home of the Brave and Land of the Free? Freedom and Bravado are paramount - After all, it's not China.
 
 
 
MUVA
12.1  MUVA  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @12    18 hours ago

Sorry buzz you were right at one time now we are the country bloviating and ill will.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
12.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @12    9 hours ago

Indeed, so fuck the pandemic, it can't overcome American Optimism! If my grandparents were still alive id walk up to them, cough right in their faces, and tell them to get out and live their lives. Or at least that is what a REAL American would do.

 
 
 
Krishna
12.3  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @12    2 hours ago
Isn't America The Home of the Brave and Land of the Free? Freedom and Bravado are paramount - After all, it's not China.

Well Toto...I have a feeling that we're not in Kansas any more!

 
 
 
Krishna
12.3.1  seeder  Krishna  replied to  Krishna @12.3    2 hours ago

Street Fightin' man meets Judy Garland! ("Keith Richards Somewhere Over the rainbow)

 
 
Loading...
Loading...

Who is online





50 visitors