Louisiana church hosts over 1,800 people despite social distance warning during coronavirus pandemic
Graphic: Sword-in-Hand Weblog
Related (Satire): Just As President Trump Saved My Life, He’s Fighting To Save Yours Too!
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
CENTRAL, La. - A Louisiana church attracted more than 1,800 people to their Sunday service, despite warnings from health officials to practice social distancing.
WGMB reports that 26 buses picked people up from around the Baton Rouge Area and transported them to Life Tabernacle Chruch in the town of Central for Sunday service.
Despite the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warning the public to practice social distancing to stop the spread of coronavirus, the parishioners could be seen gathered closely together -- very few wearing masks or gloves.
Pastor Tony Spell said the healing hand of Jesus is how the pandemic should be handled.
He said if anyone in his congregation is infected with COVID-19, he will heal them through God.
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Some people are not following Social Distancing orders.
They state that you are supposed to avoid large gatherings and stay at least 6 feet away from other people (see photo, above) in order to prevent the spread of the virus.
Some people are practically asking to be infected. We might need lots of Darwin awards too.
Actually that was my thought as well (the Darwin Awards). Obviously those 3 women in the video didn't want to miss their Spring Break-- even if it meant risking getting the Corona Virus,. But what I found especially interesting was what one of them said:
We have strong immune systems.
How does she know that?
(Which reminds me of a lot of the comments here on NT in political discussions-- people often make statements with no basis in fact-- sometimes I think they just say the first thing that pops into their heads).
I tend to agree.
Some people are practically asking to be infected. We might need lots of Darwin awards too.
Yep.
In our line of work you shake hands.The president will continue to do it I will continue to do it. --Vice President, role model, and Pandemic Expert Mike Pence
What a profound statement, Krishna! But on another note, I heard this the other day, "Herd Immunity". I guess many people are going to become infected either now or later, unless at least one of two things happens.
The first one is a vaccination for this virus and/or the second one, enough people become infected and survive gaining an immunity against this virus.
If more people become immune to this virus, we will come in contact with less infected people. Of course, a vaccination for this virus is the best solution and that is if enough people get vaccinated. A vaccination is somewhat like "Herd Immunity".
I guess my point is there are lots of people who just aren't concerned like others are. They don't take precautions and are some of the first people to become infected.
I guess that's alright if you're 25, but if you 60, tough and if you're 70 or above, nice knowing you. Now before someone gets knotted up, I know that is not always the case, but they've put the fear in our society. In the end we will look back and be able to analyze just how bad this virus was and even how bad it could have been.
Personally, I think these people are unknowingly selfish. We could say their selfishness comes from ignorance, but I think it also could be they don't have any faith in their government. They don't have any faith in their media, but most of all, they aren't using any common sense.
I can't believe these people would intentionally cause harm to those they love, but when people put their lives at risk, loved one's lives and many others lives at risk, when all they had to do was use a little common sense to lower that risk significantly, you have to wonder, why?
While that is common practice in politics and general culture, it sets a bad message given the current crisis. Given the current circumstances, it's a custom that should be altered or suspended at this time. I remember hearing somewhere that the President did not like shaking hands to begin with, even before he was President. But I could be wrong.
Thumbs up at conveying a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
You are right about Trump saying he does not like handshaking:
Now I know that some of you Non-Believers here on NT may be skeptical . . .even angry...at this, But seriously folks-- wouldn't you rather experience the Healing Hand of Jesus--- than resort to drinking fish bowl cleaner?
No.
Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion!
Sorry, I just don't give in to the mass delusion of "god". Especially given the source of "information" on this deity. It portrays it as a vindictive god that, if you don't do as it wished, it annihilates everybody and everything. Not to mention that the followers have used violence and threats of violence to obtain obedience.
IMO that's quite an over-generalization.
Probably applies to "the God of the Old Testiment". But not all believers believe that.
Are you familiar, by any chance, with the Quakers? The Bahai? Many (most?) branches of Buddhism? The Jains? Definitely the followers of Taoism! The Yazidis? The Sikhs?
And and probably probably most branches of Hinduism (which BTW is the third largest religion in the entire World).
I said "probably" because, as the oldest religion in the world, Hinduism not surprisingly has more branches/denominations than any of the other religion-- and obviously I'm not familiar with them all, LOL.
(I'm not including some other approaches, like generalized types of practices such as "Sun worship" etc. Also not Wicca because I'm not too familiar with all denominations-- although I've had friends who were practicing Wiccans . . .).
And then, of course, There's Scientology, which IMO is pure evil....
Not if you look at christianity or catholism. It's pretty accurate.
I'm familiar with all of them. Now take a look around, they aren't running around crying they are being persecuted while threatening everybody with "eternal hell" if others don't obey. It's nothing more than terrorism. Saw he same thing in Afghanistan every time I deployed there to fight the Taliban and in Iraq / Syria fighting ISIS.
I prefer the healing power of cheesecake and 180 proof internal virus killer.
Now that's medicine! Lol
Sorry but no hand job from a long haired dude in a dress for me.
The difference is, one is just a placebo. The other will kill you. I choose actual medical science and intervention, thank you. That's the only thing that will get results and save lives.
Two questions:
1. Do you think "the healing hand of Jesus" is neutral (i.e. that while it can't heal you it can't help you either) or that it could actually harm you?
2. If it is a placebo-- and if it actually created the desired results-- what's wrong with that?
BTW, while I'm not a big fan of any conventional organized religion, I myself have learned a form of hands-on Healing: Reiki. I've been doing it for over 30 years. And I can attest to the fact that those healing powers are real-- as can many other people I've done it to.
In the beginning I was so amazed that for a few weeks I did it on most people I knew. But then didn't do that anymore-- just do it on myself.
OK, I lied-- I actually have three questions. Question # 3: do you believe that Acupuncture actually works-- or do you believe that it only has a Placebo effect?
Neutral. It won't do anything, good or bad. At best, it might give the recipient some measure of emotional or mental comfort.
Nothing. Although I'd question what actually created the desired results.
I'll take your word for it.
It depends. Like some other forms of alternative medicine, the effectiveness of such therapies seems to be more of a case of "mind over matter." If one actually believes such therapies help, the mind might actually trick them into feeling some form of relief (depending on what condition is being "treated"). Studies indicate acupuncture can be helpful to treat pain, if used in conjunction with other therapies. But it won't help other forms of health issues.
Well, once again its my experience vs "Studies".
(I've been going to Acupuncture off and on for many years. And I've had some profound results).
But again, here's an interesting question: if someone has had some medical condition they've tried treating with many modalities for years-- all in vain-- and then they try Acupuncture and it works! Does it matter if its a "placebo"-- or if its not a Placebo but rather endorsed by the AMA?
Almost correct-- need a slight change to be totally factual:
Studies indicate that it won't help other forms of health issues.
Fair enough.
Not to diminish your experiences, but individual experience is usually subjective and anecdotal.
It depends on the circumstances: what is the condition in question? What other modalities have been tried? Have there been any changes in the modality regimen? Was acupuncture used in conjunction with current modalities? Has the patient changes their diet or activity recently? Ect.. Studies indicate that acupuncture can be effective when used in conjunction with other modalities, most notably when treating pain. Of course, there could be a placebo effect too (it's amazing what the mind can do). And if I am correct, the AMA does not prohibit the use of acupuncture for treating certain conditions, especially when used in conjunction with other therapies.
However, I think we all could be a little more comfortable with our officer standing back to say, oh, near the read line on the 'porch' as he discusses matters with the parishioners. It would cause this clip to be a useful illustration training tool for sure.
Good point!
And BTW, anyone notice anything peculiar about the photo in comment # 1?
Other than the fact that everyone has the same 'who farted in the elevator' look, I got nothin'. It can't be that they are all up on each other because that's the point. It must have something to do with glasses guy, or the guy who is standing behind Pence. ???
They’re about 6 inches apart rather than the suggested 6 feet.
Yeah that's it. Also, if they are going to see how many people can fit in a camera shot-room for #7 in that 'gap' stage right. /s
Moreover, it's strange to me that this six in particular can travel in their social circles and not get a transient virus, while nursing home in-bound are infected, sick, and dying. Strange days indeed.
Good for the team. I want everybody to be well all the same.
Moronic imbeciles every one of them.
Moronic imbeciles every one of them.
Are you referring to the people in the video-- or Dear Leader's co-conspirators in the photo in comment # 1?
The imbeciles in the video. The 1800 imbeciles in LA. And all for what? To hear somebody read a piece of fiction?
The "church" going folks who God skipped over in the brain and common sense department.
Religion often requires one to suspend critical thinking. So I suppose it's not unlikely that common sense would go too.
All of them.
Maybe they can learn from this church:
Arkansas pastor, wife, 'dozens' in church infected with COVID-19, he says
Lol but probably won't
The Bible clarifies:
However, Jesus said we should not put God to the Test and Jesus knowing God did not do so after this manner:
Though Jesus knew the power inherent in prophecy; wisdom is a proven guide and applicable to each situation in our lives. Moral to this story: 'Think before leaping.'
I agree.
Jesus preached what he preached.
There are a lot of stupid people in this world.
If they want to misinterpret what Jesus taught,...its certainly not his fault....
An old saying:
There's no fixin' stuck on stupid!
What I was always taught about the religion and Jesus, my main take away was selflessness.
That main tenet that I was taught is no more.
I'm a big fan of "old sayings".
Here's another:
The Devil can quote Scripture for jis purpose.
(I knew it was from Shakespeare but wasn't sure where...so I googled it. Turns out if Its from Merchant of Venice, Act I Scene III)
What I was always taught about the religion and Jesus, my main take away was selflessness.
That main tenet that I was taught is no more.
Well, sometimes it sure seems that way. But there are still some exceptions (just that most of the folks that still hold to that teaching are not the sort of people who spend much of their time... Ahem...on "social media" sites!
).
Actually I think a lot of these principles have been handed down for generations...even centuries... by true spiritual leaders.
In this case, there once was some highly revered ancient Hebrew sage. One of his students asked him:
Rabbi, can you teach me the entire essence of (some holy book, I forget which one) while I am standing on one foot?
The wise man replied:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there are even more ancient spiritual; paths that teach basically the same thing albeit using a different allegory but one that has the same meaning..
It may explain why Jesus stated:
Believers are intended to voluntarily study to KNOW the depth, height, width, and breadth of their Christian subject-matter. Parcticularly, in the area of understanding what is at the heart of their faith.
* Insertions mine.
I think that's the "Catch-22" with any religion. Some people will totally do that, others will do it half-way, others not at all.
I suppose the idea is that if even a portion of the population does it, it will still be a great improvement over what existed previously.
In fact IMO that can be expanded to any belief system, be it religion, politics, science, psychology, etc.
The ones who study (long) advance, develop, and begin to formulate a construct which can stand the test of time. Metaphorically, they are trees planted beside the river.
There are other ways to interpret that. My insertions would be that serpents would mean to be determined to move forward towards your goals, no backing up, and as for doves as you move forward be mindful of dangers and be quick to respond.
Sorry, but metaphorically, in our area the trees planted beside the river are the first to be swept away with the change of the current.
BcCrane, that would not be a proper use of my metaphor! (Smile.)
Image credit: www.walkinginword.com/like-a-tree-planted-by-the-rivers-of-water
That brings to mind:
For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit.
-Jeremiah, 17:8
Emphatically!
And now that I think of it:
He is like a tree planted by streams of water, yielding its fruit in season, whose leaf does not wither, and who prospers in all he does. --Psalms,1:3
That meme in an old Gospel song;
Emphatically. You done my soul right just now!
New York be blessed and hold on! Just like a tree standing by the river - don't let go!
Well in that case the trees in your area must be non-believers!
Given this glaring example, I think I will repeat my comment of two weeks ago. Let's see if it is carefully read this time or if it is once again willfully misread:
A prime example of the problem with religious belief. Those who truly believe that God has things covered are not going to be as likely to take actions necessary to contain its spread.
Well to play Devil's Advocate for a moment (pun intended) I would change that a bit:
A prime example of the problem with some religious beliefs. Those who truly believe that God has things covered
Well, you actually did say that if I understand you:
Those who truly believe that .
Which to me, implies (hopefully)that you are willing to concede that not all religious believers believe God has things covered.
(I've noticed that some do, and some don't)
I used to get into discussions about that question.
But I am no longer very interested in spending a lot of time arguing about "How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin".
The problem with religious beliefs is that they are not based on facts. I offered one example of this. I could go through any religion and offer an example of this problem.
By the use of the phrase 'those who truly believe' I am explicitly talking about a subset of believers. That subset are those who truly believe God has things covered. Clearly that is not all believers; very likely a minority.
My words never state 'all' but rather directly connote 'fewer than all'.
Ok.
To take this one step further-- Over the years I have experienced many things to be fact. Some of which can be proven (and therefore can be convincing to (most) other people. But of the things I know to be fact (due to my own experiences) many I cannot prove to anyone else.
(Actually I suppose that brings up another question--- if you know (are "sure") that something is a fact but cannot prove it to others-- does that mean you are wrong-- that it is not actually true?)
OK, now I see what you mean. (I misinterpreted it...probably because I read over it too quickly
It isn’t an uncommon belief that God built the entirety of existence and just sorta put it on autopilot. Ya know, set the ground rules and then, let it spin.
An individual 'knowing' something is fact does not in any way mean that the perceived fact is true.
It does not mean the individual is wrong, it just means that the individual's claim of truth is unsubstantiated; it is simply an opinion.
Those who hold that belief are then the opposite of those I am referencing. Those who think God does not necessarily have our backs will likely take more precautions than those who believe God has this covered.
Perhaps. Put it another way: you see and hear the tree fall in the woods, just before the forest fire burns it up. Upon later sharing their observation, an observation that can’t be substantiated, a question about the veracity of the event arises. Is it true that the tree fell, or was it an opinion?
I have been involved in many "philosophical" (or maybe it should be called "theosophical" discussions of that topic. Often it starts with a discussion of the topic "Does Man have Free will"?
And generally speaking, there are (obviously) two opinions on the subject:
1. What you just mentioned-- that God created everything--- and then stopped having anything to do with it, Just "sat back and watched it". But doesn't intervene.
2. Of course the other POV is that God created the Universe, and then She keeps "meddling" in it-- exerts some sort of forces to change things, to make things happen.
I'm not sure which is more common. My guess is that its what you said-- that the belief that God stops acting after the creation is less common.
(Possibly because if God no longer has any say as to what occurs, then that would mean that people would have to take responsibility for their lives-- and most people don't want to do that, LOL!!!).
Even some common religious sayings, such as
"God works in mysterious ways"
seems to be saying that God is acting, is doing things to determine or alter results.
It’s interesting in that humans have not always believed these ways. The very first religious aspirations by humans was Animism. In that ontological perspective, the sacred was found in the natural world around them, and between them. The belief system (if it can be described thusly) did not call for a divinity, or any supernatural beings at all.
It is an unsubstantiated truth. To everyone other than the individual, it is an opinion.
Also, the nature of the claim makes a big difference. Most people would take the opinion as fact that a tree fell in the woods and was consumed by the fire. It is likely and there are hardly no negative consequences to taking the observer at his/her word.
Contrast this with the claim that God will not lot the virus harm 'true' Christians. That is a claim that certainly needs supporting evidence and the consequences of the belief could be dire.
That's a question that philosophers and other have been debating for ages (If a tree falls in the woods and no one observes it...did it actually happen?
BTW IIRC there's an interesting phenomenon in Advanced Physics that's somewhat related to this discussion-- The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It has to do with observing subatomic particles.
IIRC, If you observe a sub-atomic particle in order to determine its characteristics (its speed, mass, etc.)...well you can't do it. Why" Because this principle says that the very act of observing it changes its characteristics.
Which is a bit paradoxical I suppose. (Its either Advanced Quantum Physics-- or the principles of Ancient Hinduism....which some people feel are not very different...)
Of course when it comes to The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle-- truth be told I'm not entirely sure about it ....
Actually, the saying means God has a plan that has not been shared completely with his stewards, humanity. Humanity can not understand what say the purpose of death is to the eternal plan of God. Or why there is a need for this specific three-dimensional existence. Among an infinite number of unanswered ponderings.
The degree to which a statement is believable, is certainly another part of the equation. Belief that birds can fly is much easier than, let’s say, believing that hogs can do the same.
I am completely fascinated by this, and have been following as closely as my lack of expertise in the subject allows.
The implications are boggling. The very thought that we may be able to change the behavior of matter simply by observing it, deserves a flurry of research. As well, it also opens up discussion about the the nature of unexplained phenomena, some religious.
My friend, what if God is above humanity's political correctness and provocation. That is, God is Spirit and without requirement to gender/sexual personification?
I suppose that you could say that the system did not call for a divinity-- that is a being (a divinity) that was separate from us.
IIRC in many Western religions, it seems implied that God is separate from us, a different being. But in many Eastern religions there is a POV that the separation is an illusion-- that everything is one.
But...who is that a problem for? (Its a problem for you-- but its not a problem for the believers!!!)
Actually most religious believers I know what not attempt to argue that point (they will not even try to argue that their religious views are based on facts. Rather, most of the one I know will say its based on faitie, For non-believers that's not a satisfactory answer-- but for religious believers they are fine with that explanation).
The example problem I offered was the topic of your seed.
It might not be a perceived problem for those believers who fail to take appropriate precautions against this virus, but it is a societal problem.
Seems to me it is a societal problem that there are people gathering and mixing without taking appropriate precautions.
Why you deem this simply a problem for me is a mystery. Seriously, krishna, et. al. do you not recognize the societal problem of those not taking precautions because they believe God has things covered?
Hi TiG, God has never directed anybody to let their faith overrule natural dangers God has placed in the Earth. Part of faith is praying for the wisdom to understand those "minefields" in life not designed to walk through. For instance, fire will burn us, gas will snatch away oxygen from our lungs, electricity will fry us, and disease will pollute our bodies, of the faithful—same as anybody others. What we do to avoid the effects of these causes, or once we become a victim to any one or several of these causes makes those differences according to our faith.
God gives science to humanity to be a steward of its advancement and a capacity to self-manage the advancement of this world it inhabits. Thus, unless this Pastor Spelling has been given specific directives on how to cure the Coronavirus from God, it is presumption to think this microbe will "obey" his order to stand down.
Then these folks are doubly misguided.
Do you recognize the societal problem of those not taking precautions because they believe God has things covered?
I remain mystified why anyone would answer the above question 'no'. Yet that is the example I gave in my comment.
Yes, I do recognize the problem and I wonder why the state does not require more accountability from anybody who flouts public health. Such health the state (community on the flip-side of the separation 'wall') is responsible for properly patrolling and controlling; I am an observant of when the state relaxes its shield in front of the politics of religious power, influence, and wealth. The Church is steward of spiritual health.
Faith is another shield in its own right to be wielded by the faithful, I do not see where it can properly be used as a sword to use to launch out against an infectious virus intent to slay the masses!
Good. @10.1.20 is thus a mystery to me. Clearly this is not 'my' problem.
When people operate on beliefs that are not grounded in facts, they have the means to engage in actions that are detrimental to society while thinking they are acting admirably.
And this is not a suggestion that all religious beliefs are harmful or that irreligious people are not capable of anti-societal behavior. Rather it is the observation that if one is willing to accept what some other human being merely claims as truth' and does not engage in at least reasonable skepticism (ideally critical thinking), that individual is now vulnerable to engage in detrimental activities. For example, think of the many tragic ends to cults because the members simply believed whatever their insane leader told them to believe.
This is why faith in God is a 'thinking man's, woman's, boy's, and girl's 'religion, in order that past experiences shall enlighten others. I, for my part, look in the 'Word' to find meanings for life and living, not for ways of yielding to any temptations of rushing out in front of every possibility of exposing myself to personal arrogance, delusion, and certain death.
That's quite an assumption on your part! The fact is, I do realize the danger to society posed by some of the incredibly stupid actions of incredibly stupid religious fanatics.
But I also realize how futile it would be for me to spend much of my life online, on a site such as NT, trying to convert them!
(For two reasons: 1- with occasional rare exceptions, the type of people attending that church aren't very likely to be on a site such as this. And 2- if they were, no matter how brilliant people like you and me may be... do you really think that they would listen to rational people such us?)
I am not questioning how rational & how exceptionally mentally brilliant you are...but (& correct me if I'm wrong). regardless of how noble your intentions may be... your belief that spending so much of your time on NT arguing your POV in hopes of having any impact of these types of fools strikes me as extremely naive!
That is not an assumption, it is a question of logic: I am stating a contradiction in the form of a question to you. I noted that this article provides an example of the problem with religious belief and in response you wrote this:
You deemed this example problem of religious belief to be a problem for me. So I am asking you how you could deem this to be a problem for me (and not societal) while recognizing that not taking precautions is a societal problem. Clearly this is not just a problem for me, this affects society.
I made no assumption of you, but this
is a grand assumption of me. I routinely note on NT that I have no intention whatsoever of converting true believers. You assume that engaging in debate with these folks means that I am trying to convert them. Rather, as I oft note, I am engaging in debate to put forth a public counter to the positions and claims they make. This is for public consumption, not to try to change the (typically stubbornly held) beliefs of my interlocutor.
Some people like to beat their heads against each other debating politics where both sides have an arsenal of mostly invented facts. I prefer discussions of religion and science where there are indeed real facts. Since few people engage in scientific discussions, that leaves religion. And when someone gets on NT and proclaims that evolution is pseudoscience, a worldwide conspiracy of godless scientists, I will challenge that claim. When someone speaks of 6,000 year old Earth, worldwide tectonic plates realigned by Noah's flood, homosexuality is an abomination, eternal damnation, Trump being picked by God, on and on, based on religious beliefs then I will challenge those claims.
And, finally, when people piss all over logic and make claims that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent God can coexist with free will and that our ostensible free will is what caused the Covid-19 virus, I will challenge that logic.
Suffice it to say, your assumption of my intentions regarding religious debate is incorrect.
BTW if it seems I'm just being "argumentative"..well in one sense that true. But unlike many people online who argue because its important to them to be "right"-- or important to prove other people to be "wrong") I do it for another reason-- I am a very curious person. In addition, I have a tendency to try to uncover facts by discussing ("arguing") with other people.
For a long time I wondered why this was so-- then I learned about the Myers-Briggs Typology Inventory (AKA "The MBTI"). And in that system I am an " ENTP", often called "The Debater".
For the most part. we don't usually argue in order to be "Right". Or even to convince other people of something (for example trying to convert them to a different political or religious viewpoint).
Rather we have what I believe is a fairly uncommon trait-- we argue as a way of learning stuff. And secondarily, we argue because we often enjoy it.
P.S; I'm not an expert in the MBTI, but of the 16 types in that system, my guess is that you're probably an INTJ .
Great stuff Krish. Bouncing ideas and questions off each other will lead to differences, but is a superb way to learn.
Great stuff Krish. Bouncing ideas and questions off each other will lead to differences, but is a superb way to learn.
Well, of course its one way to learn. But in a sense I can't help it-- as an ENTP that's what we do-- often without thinking about it!
Of course I could do what's much more politically correct on Social Media sites such as NT-- if I think I'm "losing" the argument I could try to change the subject...instead of actually discussing the topic, I could attempt to derail the conversation by changing the discussion to a series of personal attacks on the other person.
(But then again, in my perience, most of the people who spend a lot of time on Social media sites really aren't too bright)..
I can say that blogging has led me on an unexpected journey of education and growth. After a while I simply couldn’t participate without being intellectual honest with myself. Growth doesn’t occur without change, it is fostered in hardship, and struggle, as well as nourishment and a supportive environment.
Such as, for example, NT? Or even, for that matter, a site such as NV...(Peace Be Upon It!).
Actually, yes!
I was such a hard core noob; ultra conservative and fairly ignorant about many issues. There were folks who put up with my foolishness, practiced patience, and imparted wisdom when I would accept it. I had run-ins with a few Liberals on NV that allowed for opportunities to get smacked around like a rag-doll; but, it pushed me to ask Lottsa questions and research like crazy. The internet was a whole new frontier, and blogging provided me an overview that I needed, to navigate the vagaries of the web. If it wasn’t for really nice and kind people willing to share, I doubt that I would have ever gotten past many old preconceptions and prejudices.
Makes me think of Gillis,,, what a dude!
That's interesting. My experience has been quite different, but now I understand what you experienced.
Was it that you were rigidly Right-wing, and the Liberals there were not tolerant of that-- and nasty to you...but Gillis was the only one (the only Liberal) there that was open minded and tolerant of your views? Took the time and had the patience to discuss things with you-- respectfully! ???
NV was an overwhelmingly Liberal site-- I often wondered why the Conservatives there stayed-- life would've been easier for them if they went to a Conservative site-- or even a mixed site like NT.
I don't know if you know it but for years he was my closest friend on NV.
We had a lot of communications over the years that wasn't visible to other people there.
He is also extremely brilliant intellectually.
It was more that Jack was no bullshit on NV, which allowed me to see his points clearly. I didn’t have to wade through his comments looking for where he was trying to trip me up with deception. Also, he had an uncanny ability to see where I was truly looking for answers, and not just trying to push an agenda: his artful replies helped lead me towards self realization.
I would be remiss if I didn’t also mention others that helped me along the way.
I will always miss Jonathan, my brother from another mother. His friendship, skill, and unswerving approach were invaluable - together we ran the Zionvine, in many ways he was a hero to me.
Perrie as well has been an Extraordinary friend online and in real life. Her guidance and even keel approach has been a guiding light —— and her hubby Is one helluva guy, one of the coolest people I have ever met. Plus, her chocolate martinis are to die for lol!
Buzz has been with us from the start, and his unique perspective has helped inform and encourage my education. He is a loyal and compassionate friend.
You of course Krish, my closest confidante, have always had my back, and used gentle persuasion to help me gain perspective. I never would be here if it wasn’t for you. Thank you my friend. You are without a doubt the smartest person I think I have ever met.
Remember the libraries you shared with me? The Raccoon Club? I do admit that I miss those days a little bit.
There have been many other influences that I am skipping right now; but, I am grateful for them all.
For real, blogging has been invaluable to my education and growth.
It was more that Jack was no bullshit on NV, which allowed me to see his points clearly. I didn’t have to wade through his comments looking for where he was trying to trip me up with deception.
Exactly!
After they NV the Nations system, and people started moderating their own columns, a lot of liberals (who were by far the majority on NV) started flocking to columns of other liberals, and conservatives to columns of other conservatives. Because the vast majority didn't moderate objectively...they definitely favoured people opf similar views.
But jack was an exception. While he himself was pretty liberal, if a liberal needed to be confronted he didn't hesitate...he was just as strict with liberals as with conservatives.
In fact some of the more prominent liberals initially came to jack's columns because they though they could get away with...exceeding the limits.But after jack chastized them a few times...a funny thing happened. Some of the more extreme ones stopped coming to his column (because they didn't like the fact that he was so fair).
In a way I miss them as well.
My intentions were good, and I nput a tremendous amount of time and effort into some of those projects.Until. eventually, i realized the futility of trying to make any significant change in the world by posting factual information on online forums.
There's an olde saying:
There are none so blind as those who do not want to see...
However in one way all that time and effort wasn't wasted...I believe I helped accelerate the growth of some future "change makers'... and I eventually learned a lot myself.
Indeed, so fuck the pandemic, it can't overcome American Optimism! If my grandparents were still alive id walk up to them, cough right in their faces, and tell them to get out and live their lives. Or at least that is what a REAL American would do.
Well Toto...I have a feeling that we're not in Kansas any more!
Street Fightin' man meets Judy Garland! ("Keith Richards Somewhere Over the rainbow)
Jus' kiddin'-- actually I sometimes think that in many ways we are now more in Kansas than ever
Well, speaking just for myself of course, all things considered I'd rather be in Philadelphia!
(Contrary to popular belief I am not the one who first muttered that rather paradoxical phrase).
Jus' kiddin'-- actually I sometimes think that in many ways we are now more in Kansas than ever
Last I heard, Toto was in Africa.
Now that's carrying "Social Distancing" to the extremes!
Somehow Toto must have something to do with the notorious "TPSDS" ( AKA the "Toilet Paper Shortage Derangement Syndrome" we been hearing so much about!
150 years ago, people trying to leave that building would have been met with a hail of lead.