Trump asked aides if he could pursue a wild plan to replace the Electoral College with loyalists who would ignore the vote, report says
Category: News & Politics
Via: john-russell • 4 years ago • 142 commentsBy: tporter@businessinsider.com (Tom Porter) 1 hr ago (MSN)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
- President Donald Trump has been asking aides about a plan to remain in office by subverting the Electoral College, The New York Times reported Thursday.
- Under the scenario, GOP-controlled state legislatures would ignore the popular vote in swing states, appointing Trump loyalists to the Electoral College to secure the president a second term.
- Business Insider reported earlier Thursday that the plan was gaining currency among some Trump supporters — despite how unlikely it is to work.
- Experts say that the scenario, though technically possible, faces enormous legal and political obstacles.
- The sources who spoke to the Times stressed that though Trump asked about the plan, he did not seem to entertain it seriously.
- Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.
President Donald Trump asked top aides about a wild plan involving replacing electors in swing states with loyalists to secure himself a second term, The New York Times reported on Thursday.
The Times report came hours after Business Insider noted that the plan was gaining currency among Trump allies.
The plan exploits an obscure loophole in US democracy, and hinges on state legislatures deciding to ignore the results in their state and instead send a new group of electors to the Electoral College who would cast their votes for Trump.
Such a scenario, while technically possible, has been widely dismissed by experts as unworkable in practice and an affront to US democracy. Business Insider's post yesterday noted some of the problems with making it work.
The Times, citing sources familiar with Trump's activities, reported Thursday that the president pressed his advisors about the scenario at a meeting on Wednesday.
Since Biden's victory was projected by Business Insider on the morning of Friday 6 November, and other major news organisations on Saturday, Trump has made no public statements.
Instead he spent time playing golf, watching cable news, and tweeting accusations of electoral fraud, many of which have been labelled misleading by the social media platform.
According to reports, top advisors have admitted privately that Trump's chances of winning a series of lawsuits challenging vote counts in swing states have little realistic prospect of success.
The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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Will Trump supporters on Newstalkers tell us whether or not they support Trump getting a second term by subverting the electoral college ?
No.....but we will attempt to make Biden's job as difficult as possible
The resistant is just getting started.
What a great impression that makes on the rest of the world. Be proud, so very proud of the demolition of democracy.
Whatever you say, m'dear. Now have yourself a lovely day.
whatever gets those old birthers into the box the quickest. most have voted in their last general election anyway.
Right, as if the last 5 years of left wing "Not my president" & "Remove at all costs" dumbfuckery didn't make a wreck the US image.
Fuck the rest of the world. They will have Biden giving them all blow jobs soon enough. The tail will go back to wagging the US dog again.
Does the content of Biden's program matter? Or will you oppose everything?
Does the content of Biden's program matter? Or will you oppose everything?
Of course not...... They are more than happy to vote against their own best interests......
I was hoping for a Reply from Greg.
You're probably right, considering that most of Trump's policies are harmful to Trumpists... but they adore him anyway. But I'm more than willing to hear a different argument from Greg.
It is possible that a new DOJ interested in following the money, public and private, may make Biden's job much easier than you could ever imagine. Dirty money ends up biting arse.
I'll choose the "?" since I'm not an American.
Okay. Enjoy it.
That's asking the same question and seeing what he claims are the first EOs he is going to make, his program is worth resisting.
That's what I supposed.
Let me guess, you call yourself a patriot too?
Gee, I wonder where he could get that idea?
electoral-college-members-to-switch-their-trump-ballots-elect-clinton
How soon you have forgotten!
Subverting the electoral college is wrong no matter who does it. Do you agree?
Getting rid of the Electoral College altogether by means of a constitutional amendment would be better yet, but that cannot affect the outcome of this election.
The system was created in a very different society, over two centuries ago.
So many flaws have developed and accumulated. The EC is a flaw... principally because the Senate is a flaw. And so on....
With one of the major parties working diligently to destroy democracy - both sides do not do it - in America, it's hard to imagine the kind of "common purpose" we'd need to clean up the mess.
That is unlikely. But we could make improvements. One improvement would be to simply have all 50 states use proportional votes (and replace human electors with tallies).
That will likely never happen either because the states are not likely to agree on anything ever, but it would be an easy improvement.
Ours is a federated system. If you think a federated system is a flaw then I understand your point. I do not expect the USA to go pure national in the foreseeable future.
Finding a better apportionment for the Senate would not be the end of our federal system, which is perhaps better illustrated in the importance of states' legal systems than in their representation in the Senate.
When the Constitution was written, the population ratio between biggest state and smallest was 7:1. Now it's 30:1... and it's killing the federation. We could find a scale that would protect small states... reasonably.
Well we have already had that discussion.
Really?
I don't remember it.
In my electoral college article. Remember when you were proposing increasing the number of congressional representatives by a factor of 10, etc.?
I believe that Alaska just passed a proposition to move to proportional vote system
Increasing the number of Representatives is a different subject.
Did we conclude something about the Senate? My memory can be pretty flaky.
Here is one of your comments:
TiG,
Well, I see what is going on as I hope a supermajority of the people in the individual states do. I really think that a Constitutional amendment is the way to go because it will obviate any other cult leaders who lose the popular vote from carrying on in such a morally reprehensible fashion when it becomes clear that they have lost the popular vote. The people rule. Not parties. Not Individual politicians. That is the heart of the problem right now because the parties think they are the rulers. that is not the way the USA is supposed to work.
A constitutional amendment is certainly the best way to go. I just wish it was possible to achieve that given today's environment.
Oh... I don't remember that at all. But I stand by it!
I would expect that this is still your opinion. I am not suggesting your opinion is without merit.
Same question... same dataset... same conclusion.
More bullshit by the media. Once again "sources". Meaning they have jack shit of nothing; and are pulling their old bullshit narrative of "repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".
Why not put a name to these "sources" that can back up what they are reporting? Of course that would a real source, and not something in the media's TDS driven minds.
Trump and his followers love unnamed sources when they support him. The "repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth" is taken from the Trump/GOP playbook, just like they are trying, and failing, to do with constant rants of voter fraud.
This really bugs the crap out of you, doesn't it? Because if true, it shows your boy in a very poor light. Actually, the light becomes very bright and shows the low depths of his ethics, morals, character, and integrity.
Maybe, just maybe, some of you will finally see this "man" for what he really is
"My boy"?
Condescending, and with racist overtones no less.
You think I am pro Trump? I can't stand the asshole. I didn't vote for him or Hillary the first time around. I campaigned for, and voted for Gary Johnson. What did I get for my efforts? With two of the most vile human beings running under the Establishment banners, Johnson couldn't even garner 10% of the vote to get federal funding for the next federal elections.
What is more is the left's reaction. Seems my voting for Johnson was a slap in their faces. I, and those that voted 3rd party, enabled Trump to win. Cost me a few Democratic friends. So I decided this time around I wasn't going third party.
I voted straight Republican ticket for the first time ever. The Democrats have proven themselves to be far worse than Republicans at every level. The lot of them are not fit to be dog catchers. "Russia, Russia, Russia". "Collusion, Collusion, Collusion", 'Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine", and "Impeachment, Impeachment, Impeachment". It started even before Trump took office- and still echoes throughout the TDS driven left. It wasn't a vote for Trump, it was a vote against Democrats.
Your corrupt, hair sniffing, rapist, pedophile beat the one in office. Democrats should be happy- instead it has just ratcheted up the attacks. I will never argue Trump isn't a complete asshole; but the Democrats have outstripped him in every regard to become the biggest assholes on the planet.
Condescending? Yes. Racist? No. trmp is no man and I'm beginning to believe he doesn't even earn the title of boy. That infers that he would at least have testicles.
And at the beginning of your screed you claim, "can't stand the asshole" "didn't vote for him".
That's why I call him your "boy". You have defended nearly all of his actions for the last 4 years. For someone that I used to believe was a rational, critically thinking, conservative, you've disappointed me.
As for the rest of your comment...I didn't bother
One can easily argue that any politician is corrupt so I will not challenge that adjective.
Hair-sniffing seems like a feeble jab. Big deal.
However ...
Why make these extreme emotive allegations when Biden has never been found guilty of either?
As I have noted when similar allegations were made of Trump, it is counterproductive to put forth wild allegations (or to focus on irrelevant nits). Why do it?
Rabies?
Hydrophobia...
I do not understand. Trump's misdeeds, both legal but immoral, and downright illegal, have been pretty well documented.
He escaped impeachment because the Republican Party covered his illegal actions.
Would you now make him a martyr?
Seriously?
Tell it to the quarter-million dead!
[deleted]
Trump, for all intents and purposes has lost!
[deleted]
And if you think 2024 is nuts, ask Grover Cleveland.........
It would be nice if he'd acknowledge that fact.
That depends on Trump.
Until he acknowledges it, it is not crap.
I know that, you know that, Trump refuses to know that.
Just why in the hell does acknowledging it matter? The writing is on the wall. He knows it. Would YOU go down without a fight knowing what hell has happened over the last four years of defending yourself against all kinds of false accusations and the media plastering everything you did, short of taking a dump, every day because they didn't like you? I would hope you would have more fight in you than that...................
And to answer JR's original question, no I would not support a second term under those circumstances. It, again, is ridiculous to assume he could even get CLOSE to being able to do that. You call the man all kind of names but yet want to keep him alive here at TNT. Let it go and support your new POTUS without having to beat on Trump. Although I know it's gotta be hard knowing that all that is on the table so far is putting the country in reverse and rolling back what has been done over the last four years. That is easy shit.
Hillary went down without a fight even though GOP has been persecuting her for years, and spewed numerous lies about her during the campaign, and she lost to Trump with even smaller margins than Trump has lost by.
If Trump would just shut his mouth and acknowledge the loss, articles about him might, just might simmer down, but he constantly rants about voter fraud and other imagined slights against him. His firing of officials just because they disagree with him also causes more news negative to him.
Finally is does matter that the current president has not acknowledge the incoming president, especially when thousands of his followers continue to rant and wail about voter fraud and how Biden is not the president-elect.
Because he is POTUS and refusing to acknowledge his loss is directly impacting this country.
There's more if you need it.
Just how so?
He's keeping himself alive here on NT
I agree I would not support a term under those circumstances. What I find amusing is some democrats were trying something similar(faithless electors" when Trump won in 2016. I don't seem to recall the liberal outrage then.
Did you just ignore over half of my reply???
It's bullshit and got the attention it deserved. Now HOW is that affecting the whole country. And that smooth transition crap is just that. Mr. Biden is moving ahead with his plans and I am sure, when the smoke clears, it will be just fine. Did you ever work in a company where the CEO or CFO or other high up got to transition into his/her new position and the person they were replacing got to hang around to show them the ropes after getting fired? I wager hell no. LOL.
So, what's to transition? Mr. Biden got first hand knowledge of "transitioning" in 2008 and knows what has to be done. Granted it was, by all accounts, smooth but what the hell are you expecting? That he gets to hang in the White House and have a sleep over until inauguration? He is doing what he can now to get ready. And it matters NOT what Trump does or doesn't do or say.
Withholding the security intel actually can hurt this country.
I have already given 4 examples. Why are you unable to read them?
Possible the 'security INTEL' on a selective basis has been withheld from the current president ever since his stunt at Helsinki.
That's kinda sorta... ... childish...
Wrong...her fight was the fake Russian dozier she paid for to try and invalidate Trump's presidency. She failed and, unfortunately for you and your friends, you can still not call her president Hillary.
If you want to do it, it must be a decent and honorable thing to do. If it were not, you wouldn't want to do it.
If it is decent and honorable now, it must have been decent and honorable then.
Right?
Comment on the article, not the seeder. Next one will be flagged as off topic.
It is on the [article...................deleted]
As soon as he removes his X/L carcass out of the WH, we will focus on returning this nation to a once again respected world power.
And by the way, what the hell have you been posting for 4 freaking years...love letters to Dems, liberals and Hillary Clinton?
Didn't someone just seed an article on Hillary this week? We've had to spend 4 years on that crap too. I wasn't fond of her when she was in office, now she's irrelevant and the right still brings her up every other day.
You certainly are not handling Trump loss very well.
By the time we have an accounting of the Trump administration he will not be able to get himself elected Runner Up to the Queen of Cell Block D...
au contraire. I know he lost. I'm over it. Best for those on the "winning" side for them to get over it and move on. He is, other than having two months left, history now. How about some good things that the Biden administration is going to do? Instead of still pounding on the outgoing ..............
What I am worried about is how the wounded jackel in the bush will choose to attack the now, president elect
Trump is the epitome of a school yard bully with no conscience onboard.
Kinda like we saw in 2016 with all the hit pieces on Clinton.
Me thinks you need to dial back the anger a tad bit
Clinton wasn't elected now was she. What hit pieces after the election, other than her sticking her nose in after the fact, hit pieces did you see? And I am not angry. Just fed up with sore winners.
Wow...and you got on my case yesterday for having a faulty memory. I will not go back thru 4 years of articles looking for a Hillary hit piece.
And, no, she was not elected, but neither was your boy this time around.
As far as being fed up with sore winners? I see a lot of projection in that statement.
You might want to wake up to the fact that Bunker Boy is keeping this alive. His refusal to concede (I don't give a fuck if he does or doesn't) his childish temper tantrums and tweets. His endless lawsuits trying to overturn an election (he has that right and he will lose every one of them). His constant accusations of voter fraud and his mindless tweets and his outright lies are keeping him in the headlines.
Like everything else he's done, he has brought this election disaster on himself.
Sore winners, you say, take a look at Bunker Boy if you want to see sore. Trump a real sore loser.
When I was a kid, we wouldn't play with sore losers
Oh they actually won one yesterday in Pennsylvania where they tossed a couple of hundred mail in ballots with missing post marks. It doesn't amount to anything but they did win a case.
But those weren't even counted, correct, and won't be counted at all?
A minor win....or as my dear husband says when he beats me at Trivial Pursuit...a moral victory
I believe the article said they were counted "fixed" ballots and the court tossed them out. It was only a small number so the needle doesn't really move any.
thank-you
The far right wing lives on hate of the "other"
Trump has lost the election. That doesn't mean that Trumpism is finished.
I personally feel a powerful need to insist, to repeat, that all small-d democrats must remain mobilized.
The enemies of democracy will keep trying.
I thought there was a SCOTUS decision that the standard process of electing the electors could not be altered.
The SCOTUS case was on the electors changing their votes from what they were appointed for. This article discusses the use of the state legislators appointing their own electors. Different discussion altogether.
The Constitution says
The Constitution allows states to choose electors. It doesn't say how they have to do that.
I believe the case you're thinking of was about whether or not states can require electors to vote for the candidate the state wants - and they can.
If the electors are permitted to cast their votes contrary to the decision arrived at by the majority of the voters of the State they represent, then what I see is the disenfranchisement of voters' rights and a bastardization of the democracy that America is so proud of that they encourage it among the citizens in other nations, interfering with the domestic affairs of those nations.
And yet, many Democrats are supportive of disenfranchising their own states voters by demanding that the electors vote for whoever won the popular vote in the country, their own voters' wishes be damned.
As of July 2020, it has been enacted into law in 16 jurisdictions possessing 196 electoral votes, including 4 small states (DE, HI, RI, VT), 8 medium-sized states (CO, CT, MD, MA, NJ, NM, OR, WA), 3 big states (CA, IL, NY), and the District of Columbia. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status
Yes. That would be unthinkable.
That's probably why the Fathers didn't bother to write it.
Sadly, our President has made a habit of doing the unthinkable.
We've never had demonstrations like there would be.
Then what are we talking about it for? Just so someone can publish a clickbait headline? Or it is to make the extreme partisans on the left even more perpetually outraged than they already are?
The fact that he even entertained the idea of a plan goes to his character. That is the point, and that is why so many within his own party have parted ways with him. Never before in history has this even been discussed, and if it came from the Democrats, you would be screaming communism. You don't ask if you are not interested.
Of course. If his aides had responded with "thats a great idea chief", Trump would have said "let's go. let's do it". Of course he wanted to do it. The "he wasnt serious" part comes afterward.
So what does it say about the character of people who wanted faithless electors to vote for Clinton in 2016?
Where are the Democrats condemning the talk or voting in 2016? Did they part ways with anyone?
Seriously? You really think there has never been talk of electors voting however they wanted? There were 10 faithless electors in 2016. Legions of Clinton supporters were begging for more. There have been several of them through our history .
This is one heck of a detour to the discussion, but I was never for that, and anyone who was, should be ashamed of themselves. But you nicely avoided the fact that the leader of the free world, even asked that question.
Again, we are not talking about the current incumbent. The equivalency is who in the Republican party is talking out against this?
And they were wrong. But NEVER has the president talk about it. There is a big difference.
Perrie some people will still be making excuses for Trump when they shuffle off this mortal coil. It is totally inexplicable, but no longer a surprise or shock.
I have seen Tacos be very reasonable. I am a cup half full kind of gal.
Ok, this is also a derail, but I consider "leader of the free world" to be arrogant American hyperbole. I know you didn't invent it, but it's overused. He is not that. He is an elected official for the United States. He is the head of only one of three coequal branches of government.
He is also free to spitball ideas. I don't care what he brainstorms. I care what he actually does.
Furthermore, nothing he is suggesting is illegal, much less immoral.
Why not? One of the intended purposes of the Electoral system was that people wiser than yer average joe would be picking the president. Several elections have been brokered through the electoral process.
In 2016, the Electoral College probably should have voted for Clinton, or even better: some third, more moderate person than the two contenders. We probably all would be happier now.
I have no idea. Didn't this rumor just break today? Is it even substantiated? If not, why should anyone comment on it at all? In 2016, that talk went on for weeks, out in the open, and was supported widely in the media.
Actually, I doubt that's true, but how would we know? And anyway, again, there is no reason he shouldn't talk about it. "Speech police" is not a good look, ya know?
what size cups
do u have../?
You probably assume I support the idea of the Electoral College voting for Trump. In this case, I don't think I do, but that is not my main reaction to the story.
What I see here is what I have been seeing for four years: contrived outrage over something that is not really outrageous. First, we don't even know the story is true. But even if it is, all presidents and all candidates throw around all sorts of ideas with their advisors. It's called brainstorming or spitballing. It doesn't mean anything. It's how creativity gets warmed up.
The left in this country has a disturbing need to control the speech and thoughts of others, particularly when it might upset their political agenda. Creative thought scares the shit of them, so they must crush it. I see that and I am reminded of oppressive, totalitarian regimes that jail, exile, or execute political heretics. That is a far more disturbing impulse to me than Trump trying to brainstorm perfectly legal pathways to reelection.
Asking for a friend?
unless you N joy uniforms, cause i no i'll never rock a boat i can roll the joint without the boat, but, my two nonsense agrees wit Perrie, as sum times you can be so logical, others, what planet do you originate frum , but, since i'm on occassion, non conformin to N E uniformity, cause i'm deformed, and can't D formin too much with norm,n i don't think i care too change
no, as i don't want or need any friends, but, if your cup is say a D-formed and half full, y not pour into a cup half d-formed, and around this a boob will be fully endowed and form fitting, as i cross my heart, hope to dye my hair, and just wanted to keep you abreast, but you'll probably accuse me of milkin tit, and then i'll have to X plane my intolerance that doesn't lack toes
What nonsense.
I don't think that's quite it. I agree with the need to control thought and speech in others, but I don't think creative thinking bothers them. What bothers them is the idea of objectivity. They hate it. What they want is something like 1984, where you're supposed to believe preventing illegal aliens from coming into the country is racist but murdering children in the womb is not really murder. A society where a five year old has the legal right to decide what sex it is. Where sex workers have rights while at the same time screaming about the patriarchy. Where hate speech is defined as whatever they say it is. They want a society that is completely divorced from reality and will believe whatever they're told to believe, and drag down anyone who thinks objectively. For goodness sakes, ask just about anyone on the left and they will tell you they hold the impossible position that morality is relative while burning down your business because they are morally justified in doing so.
So, no, I can't agree that creative thought scares them. They seem to support just about every idea that denies reality.
Gal Gadot's measurements are 34-24-34 with a B cup. and a perfect face.
Sometimes I think about other things than AGW and politics.
That is a smart observation.
Alternatively, that is pure fantasy.
the left is full of shit beyond over and above any previous estimate. report says.
in other words,
y'all are a bunch of fukin morons. report says.
Find it hard to believe a man ( DJT ) who cheated on every one of his wives and mistresses would even entertain the thought of finding a way to cheat with the nation's electoral system.
s/
Many times I think about environmental aspects. I'm only thinking of sex with pretty girls now .
This is why the 25th should be activated If he is seriously considering this blatant attempt to rig the election, then his powers need to be seriously curtailed.
One week later and this seed is fast approaching reality.
Can Trump convince Michigan to designate new electors tomorrow?
We shall see.
F there is one thing Trumpp and GOP have taught US, it is we need to put some restrictions on Presidents Future, after experiencing won who lost, as he has so skirted, disregarded, and/or down right BROKE so many FCKN LAWS, While constantly flappin nonstop LIES,out his flippin jaws ! We need far more checks and balances on Power, in this case, White Power in our House, Senate, and White House ( of Power), cause we look more and more like the Banana Hammock Republic, than the Leader and the Beacon of leadership Lighting the way in the former Democratic and Independence leader way. People the world over, look to US for an excellent example of Freedom, Rights, and Fair Elections. Who didn't see this as a likely possibility, as Trumpp is an impossibility, that enables ignorance, while leading a cult like following, till it exhausts reason, and o/r, Jimmy Jones Kool Aids for ASSES
It is like a bad fever-dream...