Trump Has Left the House...in Shambles
Do you feel the sense of release now that he is gone? It is time that we embrace the future, move away from this heinous mistake, stop flopping about in the Swamp.
He lost by a wide margin, then, continuously lied about it, as he did from the day he walked down that escalator spewing unending LIARS, racism, pandering to our lower instincts, self-indulgence, and, open corruption.
The People have SPOKEN.
The Coup failed!
COVID19 still rails with a renewed strain, more deadly than before.
Sanity has been restored. The Devil is returning to its lair, where it will be caged until the Religious Right unlocks its chains with their collective HATRED for humanity.
We must move on!
"The times they are a-changin'!" - Poet, Song Writer, Activist Bob Dyland
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It is time to MOVE ON but, we must not forget, or, allow the guilty to go unpunished.
I slept very well Wednesday night knowing that someone was at the helm that looked at the people of this country as something other than marks.
Now is the time for accountability. Trump is gone, but his lies are still on the lips of too many republican leaders. Either speak the truth to Americans.... or stop talking.
Amen. So this is what a return to normalcy looks like from the 'far' side? We have all experienced, "The Loudness," and it was harsh indeed!
I agree, 100%. Thank you for your wise post.
The weight has been removed. We can move forward. God Speed!
I slept well only because Trump no longer had the codes to the football.
Do you feel the sense of release now that he is gone? It is time that we embrace the future, move away from this heinous mistake, stop flopping about in the Swamp.
we must not forget, or, allow the guilty to go unpunished
Some of your liberal brethren are having a difficult time doing that. What would tell them to do
If the left foolishly desires punishment, they are not serious about moving on
The word is accountability Greg......
The same lies that led to the riot of 6JAN21 are still being promulgated by the GOP. Truth is all to expendable to the likes of Hannity, Carlson, and ambitious shits like Cruse and Hawley. The sanctity of the US Constitution comes in a distant second to TV ratings, and financial contributions for the aforementioned.
What is sad is LIES has a platform on scale with TRUTH! And it's partially media's fault. I mean "assertive" people are striving to make waves and unique spots for themselves on the 'dial' of talk! Truth is not always glamorous, loud, or indulgent of itself. And truth never seeks an agenda all its own!
Happy Friday CB....
Any conservative/Trump supporter that says we should have unity without accountability of what led up to and transpired on 6JAN21 is going to get it shoved up their tailpipe from me. Law and order party my ass..... Rule of law party my ass....
Hell..... What's left in the GOP either wants to take over Trump's mantle of leader of the rabid base, or is too scared of getting bitten by that base if they come out in favor of tossing Trump on the trash heap of history. There are a few with morals like Romney, and Murkowski, but they're considered RINOs.... The GOP is a mess.
Hi FlyNavy1, I am 'rockin' the Lincoln Project -go get your stuff - party right now. Those RINOs have a "golden" opportunity to nip their Teflon Don before the remake! Will they do it? Will RINOs and the Lincoln Project supporters unload on Donald's political butt?! Watch. This. Space.
Now is the time, or watch the KRAKEN release itself from the pit and climb back up. . . .
If the left foolishly desires punishment, they are not serious about moving on
Coincidentally, that's what many people were saying about The Nuremberg Trials.
The Nuremberg trials were a series of military tribunals held after World War II by the Allied forces under international law and the laws of war.
The trials were most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, judicial, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany, who planned, carried out, or otherwise participated in the Holocaust and other war crimes
Actually at this point I think that the Kraken himself has begun to realize the errors of his past ways..and even The Kraken has now begun to criticize Trump!
(I believe it was Trump's openly advocating a violent attack on the Capitol that caused the Kraken to finally wake up to The truth!)
Hmm. Interesting.
Holding people accountable is not punishment.
This SEDITION was not about citizens expressing their First Amendment Rights. It was a failed attempt to overthrow the government.
By, any other word, it is still TREASON!
We, unlike the rabble-rousers, will be judicial. The leaders of this assault on our Constitution MUST be held accountable.
No one is seeking retribution. We seek JUSTICE!
That is a good sign. The duped are not to blame. The "dupers" are.
To which you replied...
You made an excellent point, and applies as well to those who argue that punishment will prevent the nation from healing. Unfortunately, I believe that such a lesson is lost on the Trump supporters. Without accountability, the occurance of a POTUS inciting an insurrection remaining without consequence becomes American custom and tradition and will continue to be a precedent for the future.
Or...maybe they actually do understand it well!
(Maybe they don't want the nation to heal...)
???
The lesson is not a lesson anyway, for Trump supporters do not intend to be 'schooled.' Note there is no 'repentance.' No apologies forthcoming or given. Why not? Because everything Trump supporters, including Trump himself, have stated, caused, and acted upon they accept. This is simply an attempt to say don't 'f-" with us or we will get even and then continue to attempt to further their so-called, "Cause," anyway.
If Republicans in Congress want the nation to heal, they can demonstrate it by reaching across the aisle with a cooperative hand, and stop constantly obstructing every proposal.
McConnell REFUSED to even bring up Bills approved by the House, even for discussion.
45's supporters could put down their weapon and stop the HATE- Pull The Plug on HATE.
Anyone can tear down, only a few can build.
McConnell REFUSED to even bring up Bills approved by the House, even for discussion.
At least he has now lost that ability as he is no longer the majority leader.
Yes, you're always correct, looking on the bright side of things. We should THANK VOTERS for turning out, standing in long lines, and early voting by mail.
It is deeply disturbing to me that the GOP continues to pass legislation aimed at making it difficult for VOTERS to vote.
What the HELL is wrong with these Southern "Crackers?" Do they all have their heads stuck in a Mason Jar full of Moonshine?
No nation is run by STUPID!
Great objective observation Buzz, thank you.
Its a shame so many Americans citizens for various reasons don't see the writing on the wall.
The way trump operated was horrible for this nation both short and long term.
From day one not relinquishing conservatorship of his estate to a neutral party till the day he slipped away with his tail firmly between his legs after his desperate insurrection trying illegally to to hold power failed. Leaving dead people in his wake.
Finally giving himself a diminished lonely disgraced farewell exit from the most powerful position held by a human on this planet.... So Disgraceful !
Slithering away like the self wounded slimy self centered criminal he really is. Away, ironically enough to his questionably illegal home lair. Mar-a-Logo
Yeah we need that back....
Sarc.
Could you imagine hearing some of these calls from the right to just move on and drop the investigations and determination to bring those behind the attacks to justice happening less than two weeks after 9/11? January 6th should never be forgotten, it was an attack on our democracy and our nation just as 9/11 was. The body count wasn't as high thankfully, due to the quick actions of many capital police who rushed the members of congress and the senate out of harms way, but it was no less egregious. No patriotic American should be deflecting or defending these domestic terrorists and those seeking to give them safe harbor should be viewed just as guilty as those who aided and abetted the foreign terrorists who attacked us 20 years ago.
tRump left the White House/everything in fucking shambles. No plan for Co-Vid vaccine, nothing. NOTHING
Well, it would've been important to forget about 9/11and drop the investigsations-- because we wanted "Unity" with the terrorists...
/sarc
How many investigations happened over Benghazi?
And do not forget there are coffins and black body bags!
Can the Biden Administration find that hidden server with the FACTS on it (Think: Ukraine phone conversation, etc.)? Call your congressmen and women. Write the White House!
Hidden Confidential Server in the White House by the Trump Administration. Time for the media to bust that sucker open!
I'm feeling too lazy to google that..but as I remember, it went on and on and on.
And after that..it went on and on and on some more!
Those behind all those investigations who foolishly desired punishments were obviously not serious about "moving on"...
I believe that one of the worst punishments he is receiving is being labeled a one term loser.
Hopefully, there will be more punishments headed his way.
Standby Kavika, because the liars on the right that believe that nothing is off the table to achieve their political ambition are going to make Trump a martyr.....
Trump and his authoritarian enabling followers need to be disgraced in the eyes of all Americans.
There is no national mandate to do that. The silence is deafening
You and yours are wasting time and energy...it's beyond time to support China Joe in getting his agenda passed.
There may not be a mandate Greg, but there is the rule of law that is one of the pillars of our constitution. Aren't conservatives suppose to be the "Law & Order group?
We dodged a bullet and only because Trump wasn't a very smart authoritarian. Democracy may fall the next time, and there will be a next time.
And knock off that "China Joe" crap...... Provide proof or shut the hell up, because this is exactly the same type of lies that caused the 6JAN21 riots.
China and Biden are intimately financially intertwined. Who knows what deals he has made with them.
I don't need to prove what is common knowledge and recorded history
But feel free to dispute any opinions or facts that you disagree with.
Democracy never came close to falling as anyone can plainly see.
A very small number of alleged Trump supporter protestors started a riot...the vast majority did not cause trouble.
But a lot of the 75,000,000 Trump voters feel cheated, are not happy, and will not be going away
Clamoring for some kind of justice is not helping Biden or his administration...it will only diminish it.
What.... common knowledge started by Trump lies, and regurgitated by the likes of Breitbart and Fox? If it is common knowledge, then you should EASILY be able to find support for your statement at the reputable BBC News, or Reuters. Otherwise, you are counted in with all the other willing liars that resulted in the insurrection at the nation's capital on 6JAN21. Go find the link Greg, and I will make a NT wide apology to you....
Law and order conservatives my ass.....
They can feel cheated all day long, the reality of it is that they are delusion since nothing was stolen from them.
The 75,000,000 are vastly outnumbered by the 82,000,000 that are not delusional.
You are right that democracy did not come close to failing, because even had those men and women supporters of Trump who took this damnable action on January 6th stayed put in the Capitol, they would have been trapped there and easier to process and disperse to their waiting jail cells, courts, and prisons.
75,000,000 people who lost the election because their votes did not win the election need to ask themselves what the "H" are they listening to fake news for anyway! Get some facts, love some facts, and delusions will fall away. . . .
And as Greg noted, the majority of folks on the capitol grounds knew in their hearts that a line had been crossed when the first window on the capitol building was broken. It would land the lot of them in the history books (with pictures and news reels) infamously! Many didn't wish to take it any further with that understanding.
Now as to the future. . .Congress needs to harden itself and make it clear that the Capitol is not a ground to stomp on!
The same 75,000,000 that are still waiting for Hillary to be indicted any day now! Hahahahaha! Dummies...
Bullshit.
Fantasy conjecture.
Consider your flaccid opinion you gave devoid of any facts disputed.
Nice of you to try to downplay and defend those who attacked our capital and got within minutes of detaining and likely harming or killing our democratically elected representatives. Not even the 9/11 attackers got that close.
More sniveling deflection and defense of domestic terrorists and slimy use of "alleged" when you know for a fact they WERE Trump supporters waving Trump flags wearing Trump hats and merchandise chanting "Fight for Trump!" as they attacked our capital and beat capital police to death.
Oh, so now we should be concerned with peoples "feelings" over facts? I don't care how many people believe a lie, it's still a lie. The election was free and fair, just because some sore losers can't get over their loss does not mean rational Americans should validate their conspiracy theories and lies by telling them maybe they're right, patting them on the back and not refuting their crazy bullshit.
Any self respecting rational patriotic American should be demanding justice so that we never see this happen again. By just "letting it go" or "moving on" after such a vile display of sedition just sends the message to the conspiracy theorists and worthless whining sore losers that it's okay to act that way, it's okay to incite an insurrection and that they just need to try harder next time because there was no penalty for trying it the first time.
I've heard some refer to tRump as a 'tragic hero'.
Excuse me while I vomit
" H e"?
Wasn't that a typo -- shouldn't it read " S he"?
Ivanka’s Trademark Requests Were Fast-Tracked In China After Trump Was Elected
The Chinese government granted a total of 41 trademarks to companies linked to Ivanka Trump by April of 2019— and the trademarks she applied for after her father became president got approved about 40% faster than those she requested before Donald Trump’s victory in the 2016 election.
Excuse me while I vomit
Please turn to the right when you do.....
And as a result of their breaking the law, "only" 5 people ended up dead!
(After all, the vast majority of Trump supporters who illegally stormed the Capitol didn't actually murder anyone!)
Moreover, Donald Trump's quiet time is sweet to the ear! However, we are not without understanding that such a 'pig' of a greedy man is only catching his breath for the next haul. Better to put fire under his 'buns' politically. Make it clear to him that he is politically persona non grata!
Go away Donald and do stay quiet. We've taken the measure of you and it ain't good!
And in addition to the fact that only a very small number of the terrorists who were "alleged" to have stormed the Capitol actually murdered someone, . . . only a very small number were arrested!
According to the FBI, more than 100 arrests have been made in connection with the Capitol siege. Michael Sherwin, US Attorney for the District of Columbia, said officials are looking at "significant felony cases" tied to sedition and conspiracy.
Right, China was so enamored of Trump that they backed Biden and the Democrats; who they are literally in bed with.
Seems reality is not the lefts' strong suit. They see the word Russia and completely blank out. China and Iran were interfering on behalf of Biden and the Democrats; but that is all right in lefty land.
This shtick is old and battle-worned. It's partially why Trump conservatism lost 'bigly.' New 'material' please. Sheesh.
Those two statements are at odds. Either you know or you are trollimg, which is it?
Yes Greg you do if you assert it.
Thanks
Every day brings more revelations about Trump and the DoJ and Georgia and the US Atty.
So glad we can agree, can we agree that thousands are too many?
Gee, Greg that only happens every 4 or 8 years,
get the fuck over it is what someone here told me when Trump won, was it you?
After the last throes of the previous Administration? Are you serious?
No where to go but up.
Have you lost your grip on reality?
Trump saying he believes everyone, ( Russia, Iran, NK, and China wants him to lose )
is in no way an endorsement of Biden.
Only read the first few links to figure that out.
Politico says the exact opposite
and the last one is a hit piece from Fox news.
Even Evilgeniuses can be manipulated by the UBER RICH! In fact, they often use them to do their "dirty work."
Not everything you hear on Fox TV Network News is true. They are not organized as a "News Organization," their FCC license is listed, and grant, under the category of "ENTERTAINMENT."
In court they one a lawsuit that essentially allowed them to "lie, distort, manipulate the news, and create their own version of reality legally.
That error is coming to an end shortly. It will do a great deal for truth.
Storming the State House is a FEDERAL CRIME.
threatened state officials. Let's cut the Bull Chip festivals. We know what they are, DOMESTIC TERRORISTS!
It is not a creative tool employed by good American citizens that only wished to express their FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT.
Many other Statehouses had ARMED folks in the military guard, including extra magazines, automatic weapons, body armor, etc.
These are not items one that to a debate. These are domestic thugs/terrorists who
Here is how it goes, see: Everything Trump conservatives do is sanctioned, bears a 'get out free' —card, or while its 'bad' there are damage control observances, downplays, and redirections that can hose all of it down! When those liberals do matters each one ought to be weighted, tested, ceaselessly investigated, —regurgitated— and used as a basis to take additional conservative acts of Whataboutism.
CB: You have a keen, devastating wit. It is good to hear from you. Your post rumble.
More bitterness from the right. You lost get over. You backed a psycho-compulsive LIAR, Con Man, an incompetent thief that nearly destroyed our country.
[Deleted] Our intelligence agencies said China and Iran were backing Democrats/Biden.
Not fucking Trump.
Or do you not trust our intelligence agencies now?
It's not about me, but I'm certain that Trump didn't trust our IA's and the feeling was mutual, esp towards Russia.
But you be you, it's fascinating watching how someone can maintain the anger and ignore reality.
I watch the English language CGTN (China Global Television Network) news and read the English language China Daily every day and have noted particuarly that China has NEVER provided a public favouritism. But let's aknowledge that Trump and Pompeo's almost daily attacks on China are not the actions that encourage support and friendship.
Doesn't have to be.
Its not National,
The competent attorneys of the Southern District of New York can now proceed (now that Trump is no longer president).
Some of the smartest lawyers in the country... and they've been preparing for quite some time . . .
Right, reality is you are a typical Democrat/leftist. The second you see the word Russia your brain shuts off completely.
There are direct quotes from US intelligence officials that China and Iran were interfering in the US election, and favoring Biden. If you don't believe them maybe read the article I linked from Microsoft? I am sure they were lying for Trump as well./S
Also, if you read the quotes, the state "Russia's main purpose for interfering was to sow discord". Thanks to the Democrats/Left, Putin accomplished more than his wildest dreams.
I never once stated Russia didn't interfere in our elections. Yet you keep harping on about Russia. I am just not blind, nor partisan, nor stupid enough to believe that China and Iran weren't involved as well.
But Russia, Russia, Russia. When China and Iran stab the US in the back under Joe's uninterested watch; you can read all of the damn warnings again- and see exactly how blind concentrating only on Russia made Biden's administration and the Democrats.
Welcome to state run media. I am sure they report the truth from the CCCP's perspective.
China has been funneling money to US politicians for decades.
China would never do anything illegal, or interfere with the US political system in any way. If they did their mutual hatred of Trump with the Democrats makes everything OK; they just got a very early start on it with the Clinton/Gore elections.
You mentioned Russia 8 times in one statement complaining about me saying Russia twice
in relation to 11 links you posted, many of them which do not support your biased claims earlier.
That's not harping.
I sincerely hope you get over this election eventually.
And here I thought you had nothing to fear but fear itself. LOL
Give it up, D.P., Trump and Pompeo have done a brilliant job of schooling the brainless.
Four died in Benghazi in 2012 and we had hearing after hearing, 10 separate investigations about what happened in the dead on night half way around the world in a troubled place.
Five died when our own Capitol was rushed by thousands of misled Trump supporters and a few Antifa asshats and no one wants the first investigation to go forward because we all saw it with our own lying eyes and Trump is now out of office.
Many of the same politicians who now want to protect the 45th POTUS had no problem pursuing Benghazi for years
(2012-2016) after HRC was no longer the SoS. (2009-2013)
There's a word for that...
I shit you not, Sean Hannity was tweeting about Hillary yesterday...
So go ahead, sue them. LOL
Ronin2, where do you get your information?
The FBI, the Special Counsel, NSA, and our allies' INTEL all pointed to Russia, over and over again.
But, 45, pushed a FALSE NARRATIVE that was repeated over and over, again and again by Right Wing social media sites, Fox News, Rush Limberchesse, et al.
As a Christian, you must know that GOD despises the Hypocrite, and, those who give FALSE TESTIMONY.
Greg Jones, making dangerous, unproven accusations is not a FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT.
If you have facts, references to support your claim, it is incumbent upon you to provide the source of the claim. Simply repeating a source is a risky, unwelcomed practice.
We are NOT a nation of MOB rule based on "hearsay."
You are excused, Tessylo.
Agh, yes, "justice" is a bad word for dictators and their minions.
It is not Biden either who has been found with a secret bank account IN CHINA. Guess who that was.
Christopher Columbus. I heard he was a bad guy, too!
he's the king of all the losers.
It is unfolding as we speak.
Release? Odd choice of words, could be misinterpreted as it was for one Sherlock Holmes.
Understandable as the 'sense of relief' may be, I don't share it.
The Capital will be attacked again. The incoming admin has neither the orientation nor the means to conduct the anti-fascist campaign which is needed. Nor will it roll back US imperialism.
Ruling out lockdown and ordering children back to schools with masks is no pandemic response. The other economy [Musk and Bezos are doing fabulously well] continues to bleed, and worker struggles are on the agenda.
This is hard medicine but it is needed. These crises will not float away on their own, and there is not the principled commitment to develop or implement a true, working class agenda.
The party of working people is now the Republicans.
The party of the left has abandoned them
Greg Jones, the Republican Party stopped being interested in the people, when BILLIONAIRES (6) discovered that they could buy it through hundreds of millions of dollars disguised as "Donation," to elected officials at all levels. The bulk, now, goes to Republicans.
The Republican Party is the voice of Six American Billionaires, Wall Street, Conglomerates, and Super Rich Evil-Genital Televangelists.
They reach out to the "poorly educated," bombard them with a constant diet of LIES.
To increase voter turnout, the GOP, welcomes Neo-Nazis, the Klu Klux Klan, the Proud Boys, Qanon, violent prone, semi-literate Militias, immigrant haters, racists, and PUTIN.
The Republican Party and corporate America look at employees as a noose around their financial, fat necks.
Is that right? And Democrats are not, and have not at all been "bought" by billionaires?
Interesting info HERE
And HERE
The securities and investment banking industry took a very keen interest in Democratic candidates in 2020 donating over $174 million to Democrats, by far more than to Republicans. $210 million from lawyers and law firms went to Democrats far outstripping the $40 million to Republicans. This myth that only the Republican party is bought and sold by the rich, or serving only the interests of the rich, is getting as old and tired as Bernie Sanders.
Horsefeathers!
Neither Capitalist party was ever the proletarian party. If you believe otherwise [as you present yourself], it means you don't know the first thing about Marxian theory. If you do know, then your words intend further to disorient and confuse the working class lest it unite and give BOTH parties of Kapital the reply they so richly deserve.
Is there any country on the face of the earth that is a successful Marxist government?
History is replete with dictators rising to power claiming to be the "Voice of the Working Class?" Only to abandon them when they gain it, leaving in its wake stacks and stacks of shredded, mangled bodies, of the so-called, "working class,"
who pay the ultimate price, while the Marxist leaders who became rich, powerful, turning into ruthless rulers that further suppressed "THE WORKING CLASS."
This is not 1918! It didn't work then, and, as far as I know, has never worked anywhere on this planet.
There has never been a Marxian government! Stalin, Mao -- those so-called 'socialist' European and Central/South American nations ere not socialist.
Indeed, because Marxism is, above all, INTERNATIONALISM, it is apparent that there can be not such thing as a 'socialist' government.
I addressed this recently, so I'm not going to fill up this space with that text. If you want my reply to your question, you can read it here .
I have addressed this in quite some detail too. It is like talking to a wall; there is (collectively) no interest in investigating beyond the slogans and labels.
In addition to the stark deviation from the standing misconception that these were genuinely socialist states, I will repeat the point I made to Drakkonis:
The fallacious aphorism that so-called 'socialism' "was" practiced only to fail has for many decades enjoyed the stature of a state religion. Kapital's exponents repeat it continuously because they MUST. Without perpetual 'reminders,' the reality of class struggle would break into open view. Most of what happens in so-called 'politics' attempts to contain class struggle by misdirecting it into movements which can be controlled and its energy allowed to dissipate harmlessly. Think #MeToo, Black Lives Matter [of course they do], Occupy Wall Street, etc., etc. There is a saying among socialists that the Democratic Party is where reform movements go to die. Indeed, it is a graveyard of failed 'reformist' movements. The ruling class understands this well.
At least Drakkonis is no longer telling me that if ever I were to pick up a history textbook, I would be delivered from my delusions. Once it became apparent that I indeed have access to such texts, I've been written off as a lost cause. Happened to Buzz of the Orient recently also.
Indeed! That would be counter-productive. The point again being that said slogans, labels, fictitious narratives, etc intend to mask/conceal the reality of class struggle and the objective reasons for it rooted in the system of Kapital. This must be avoided at all costs. Workers must NEVER know their own [unadulterated] history. So soon as they awaken to see the 'rootedness' of existing struggles in historical working class struggles, all bets are off and it is on again!
Did someone say Occupy Wall Street?
Banks of Marble - Pete Seeger
The socialism stigma is one of the best mass examples of the failure to think critically. Most everyone has simply adopted a slogan level understanding of Marx and related topics and think that they understand the subject matter. When the obvious contradictions in their 'understanding' are pointed out, they (almost everyone) simply ignore them and double down on their favorite slogan or mantra. Their original notions are right because ... damnit! ... this is what they have always believed.
People get an idea in their heads and it becomes comfortable. Unless they will themselves to think objectively / critically they will just engage in confirmation bias and stubbornly stick with their comfortable notions. This is clear with religion and even clearer with politics.
Marxism? Please tell me Eat The Press Do Not Read It: why would a newly established government in a backward land ravaged by a disastrous foreign war instigate an internal civil war? Can you generate even a one-half reasonable explanation as to why they would do that? Does that make any sense to you? Or, is it your intent to take a swipe at Marxism while hoping that I won't recognize the blunder?
In any event -- and as a necessary corrective ...
Once recovering form the initial shock, it was not socialists -- it was the bourgeoisie and its imperial patrons who instigated this civil war [1918 - 1921]. This was a bourgeoisie war on the working class.The civil war exacted a terrible, human toll on the working class, and the Bolshevik Party itself. TEns of thousands of class-conscious workers who formed the basis of the popular support for the Bolshevik seizure of power were killed.Many foreign powers were also aligned against the Red Army. They were determined not to lose Russia from the Kapitalist regimes.
Yet you say, 'the violent Red Army.' Without changing one word, that could have been said by your 'Republican colleagues' with whom you are in league under the rubric of Kapital.
But the Red Army held! This was due in no small part to Leon Trotsky, who proved to be a military organizer and strategist of rare genius.
Yet you see 'the violent Red Army.'
When I hear 'White Nationalists,' what comes to mind is the fascist vigilante, Kyle Rittenhouse, who on August 25 shot shot three anti-police violence protesters, two of them fatally. I suspect that you and Rittenhouse would agree on the Red Army and on which faction you wish had prevailed.
Hasn't been since the mid '60's. Now it's all about big business, they don't give two shits about the working class.
You recall, of course, that the roots of communism are seed in Lenin, Marx, and Trotsky's deadly idealism, and, not rooted in facts.
Platonic governments are a "fool's errand."
"Class Struggle," that overworked, old, tired ruse has, since recorded history, served as the underpinning for tyrants to sell their bloody coups as a benefit, covering-up their horrendous crimes against humanity.
I agree!
Who ushered the Czar, his wife, young daughters, and son into a basement room and shot them. Who gave that order?
Perhaps, a "chill pill" is in order for the font of all world knowledge.
The roots of what became known as communism by the Soviet Union; but 'communism' per the former USSR had nothing in common with the communism of Marx. Lenin, by attempting to force Marxist ideas on a pre-industrial Russia (that alone violates the fundamentals of what Marx had defined) veered from Marxism into what is known as Leninism. His authoritarian state rule had nothing to do with Marxism (other than promises by Lenin) and everything to do with securing his base of power. And while Lenin did seem to seek Marxism (eventually), what he accomplished before his death was to establish an authoritarian state that enabled the monster Stalin to assume control.
Stalin played the propaganda game using the grand promises of 'socialism' and 'communism' as mere labels while he exploited the people of Russia to quickly build it into an industrial society which could deliver a war machine that would preserve his power. Stalin had no qualms killing (overwork, starvation) people to achieve his industrial goals and, especially, murdering anyone who opposed him. Stalin solidified the future of the USSR by turning it into a brutal authoritarian war-machine regime that controlled every aspect of their society. It became a class-rich (vs. classless) society where party members served as the bourgeoisie and the super majority of citizens lived meager, highly controlled proletarian lives.
There is no deeming any socio-economic/political system 'Marxism' unless that system existed to ensure the people had distributed democratic economic control. If the people are not controlling the productive resources of their economy directly to their collective benefit, the label of 'Marxism' is simply wrong. A brutal authoritarian regime is the exact opposite of a classless, democratic society where the 'workers' are the 'owners' and are competing in a free market where the needs of civil, comfortable survival exist as a byproduct of the society.
Anyone who thinks the people of the former USSR ever had anything close to such control has horribly misread history.
That's Marxism in a nutshell. M
The fact that Lenin/Stalin (and every other Marxist whose foisted the communist death cult on a country) failed to achieve to the Communist Marxist end state you describe doesn't mean they weren't dedicated Marxists. Marxism, after all, is dependent on miraculous transformation of human nature to allow such a society to exist. The high priests of Marx used their countries as laboratories to create the "New Man" who would make such a society possible. Their inevitable failure doesn't make them any less Marxist.
That is the opposite of Marxism. Read what the man wrote. Don't go by slogans.
Stalin was never a Marxist. Lenin and Trotsky were. But the fact that they were Marxists does not mean that what they implemented was Marxism. That is lazy analysis. Lenin, a Marxist, implemented authoritarian rule. That which resulted from Lenin is not ipso facto Marxism simply because Lenin was a Marxist. You have to go beyond the superficial and look what he actually did. What he actually did was a direct contradiction of Marx. So labeling this Marxism is a profound failure to understand Marx.
Marxism does not even become possible (per theory) until a society has achieved a mature industrial base through capitalism. (Do you know that Marx' work is almost exclusively a critical analysis of capitalism designed to identify where it is weak and why.) The society must first have industrial power sufficient to provide all the necessities of a comfortable life for everyone in the society. This is fundamental Marx theory. And the vision Marx had of communism is something that would evolve over time through many generations. This is not something that is simply done. The label Leninism is used for a reason. Lenin could not possibly follow Marx with pre-industrial Russia. It was not even remotely close to a state where it was ready to evolve from capitalism. Lenin was not following Marxism, he was rolling his own world using the promises and labels from Marx.
Leninism is authoritarian rule, Marxism is democratic socio-economic rule by the people. To equate the two is naive.
What will really melt your noodle is that while Lenin believed in the anti-capitalist sentiment of Marxism he actually realized that the only way to grow the economy to a point where it might support Marxism in the early 1920's was to institute what he called the New Economic Policy (NEP) which was built on guess what, capitalism and free markets with relaxed State control to foster healthy market competition and growth. Funny to think that he realized that capitalism and freer markets were key to a building a strong economy, but stood by his anti-capitalist Marxist views and supported more State control once the economy was sufficiently grown. Sounds like a man conflicted beyond reason. Also sounds like Lenin, while claiming to be a Marxist, didn't really understand it any better than some of us in this discussion do.
You are exactly correct. I have mentioned this in the past. But Lenin was dead within two years of his epiphany. In addition, this is exactly what Marx had stated (among other things such as class consciousness) as requirements before socialism could even be considered.
Basically, it was like trying to teach someone how to write before they even understand the language or the purpose of writing.
So institute a policy that one's primary thesis opposes. We need to embrace capitalism before we abolish it? Once Lenin or Marx had built the strong economy they needed using the dreaded concepts of capitalism and free markets, how did they think they would shut that down, and why would they if it worked? The only way might be through force of the State, which is exactly how it has turned out each time it has been tried.
A truly stateless democratic socialist society may be outside what human nature can achieve, at least at this point in our evolution.
I am not sure what he thought would happen. If he followed Marx at that point (hard to say) then he would believe that capitalism would grow so big and eventually collapse under its own weight. I suspect he was going to maintain his state and maybe even implement state capitalism and then eventually more gracefully evolve to socialism ... somehow. Who knows? The man has been dead for almost a century now. But I do not see him giving up power and actually embracing socialism per Marx.
I think we need considerable societal evolution before this even becomes feasible (if ever). We are waaaay inappropriate for such a system at present.
That question is debated by historians. If one wants to take a broad swipe at socialism, they'll point to V.I. Lenin, wax eloquently about this profligate deed and attempt to extrapolate some universal stand on the immorality of Marxian analysis. The important thing is that class dynamics not receive any hearing. You can research that question yourself.
Missed that video first time through. That interviewer was outstanding! She has a calling in the network broadcasting business. She clearly embraced the lost art of asking sensible questions and letting the person actually fully answer them. Bravo I say!
MEMO TO MR. DEMILLE - That woman is so not ready for any close up.
Both are ruthless, murderous reigns that slaughtered millions and millions of people to advance their IDEOLOGY.
Death is not "naive!"
Have you kept up with the changes in North Korea, Russia, and China? Are they on the right side of Trotsky's Specter?
You'll have to help me here. To which 'changes' and in which country do you refer?
Also -- and I realize that this is pressing it -- I'll need help with the definition of 'they.' Are we talking the official position of some respective government, or of the working class in one or some combination of those countries? I presume by 'right side,' your asking for what -- a moral call; but you may also mean 'legal,' or something else. If I err, tell me.
Thanks.
You error grievously! Trump, Jim Jones, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao T's Dung led the "Masses of Asses" with their oratory skill to graves, destruction, and ruination.
It is not an answer. It is murderous folly.
You paint with a wide brush. Don't you.
When you asked if I’d kept up with changes in North Korea, Russia and China, I assumed you spoke of current history.
Take China.
Earlier this month, the Hong Kong police conducted its largest arrest campaign since imposing its national security law last June. Caught up in the dragnet were 53 politicians and activists associated with the pan-democrat bloc. Working conditions in China are exploitative and oppressive. Beijing’s fear is that if the Hong Kong working class begins to fight for itself, opposition will spread across China. To that end, the regime seeks to squelch and intimidate dissent.
1,000+ Hong Kong police raided 72 locations including 4 media outlets. Those arrested were charged with subversion under the new law, and penalties for convictions carry a 10 year minimum sentence up to life.
China’s COVID-19 cases are increasing rapidly, and workers are being hit both with pay and job cuts. The Forbes’ 2020 ‘Rich List of China’ has it that the total wealth of the 400 richest people in China rose overall by over 60% [$1.29 trillion to $2.11 trillion] the previous year. And as pandemic is a proven boon in the US for Musk and Bezos, so it is in China.
Several days ago, China’s government announced that its economy [which contracted 6.8% in the first quarter of 2020] expanded overall by 2.3% for that year. In the last quarter, China’s economy grew by 6.5%.
That was not welcome news. This is fueling geo-political tensions. Seeing this coming, the UK ruling elite turned fire on China. The Australian regime recently banned Chinese infrastructure investment [citing (catch-all) 'national security'], and Canada has deepened its support for the US anti-China offensive. Now this: have I kept up with changes in China?
Not especially.
But suppose that I did my undergrad work in military and strategic studies. And say I had only a general awareness of ongoing conditions, what [pray tell] am I to assume you mean when you ask if I’m keeping abreast with changes there?
So I request clarification.
Yet for that, I’m told that I err grievously.
Then I get 'Trump, Jim Jones, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao T's Dung...'
Monsters like Stalin and Mao and Amin and others did as they did not because they were socialists [which they were not] but because they were monsters. And to besmirch all socialists everywhere because of their crimes makes about as much sense to me as blaming Jesus for the Spanish Inquisition.
The rhetorical flourish on Mao's name [which adds nothing to your post] aside, what should I assume you to be?
Socialists demanded Trump’s removal months before the election because his pandemic non-response constituted a crime against humanity. They demanded his removal for deploying federal troops to squelch dissent in Washington, for snatch squads and other illegal activities. Socialists also made the case that Trump as much as Biden is a war criminal. Socialists are calling for the establishment of politically independent rank-and-file safety committees in every state, county, community, neighborhood, school, hospital, business and workplace. If principled, proactive and independent work is what you mean by jackals howling in the wilderness, we socialists are guilty as charged.
But we didn’t see you taking up our appeals to defend civil rights, or to demand Trump’s immediate removal. Moreover, the unstated implication that you stand somehow in the ‘middle’ is a fraud. You have far more in common with Trump and his GOP than you with principled socialists, who – as Trotsky said – see the petty-bourgeoisie as a fascist instrument wielded by the bourgeoisie against the working class.
On other matters you name – the Socialist Equality Party calls for open borders. It insists on an immediate lockdown of all schools and non-essential workplaces with full compensation during the pandemic. It calls for rational economic planning to eliminate Kapital’s duplication, overproduction, and other integral flaws.
So, Eat the Press Do Not Read It: the question I see here is, ‘who are you in all this?’ Are you the guy who throws out a question and responds to a request for clarification as you did – or, are you the guy who gives thoughtful, nuanced, level-headed replies that address issues?
By the way, among those arrested by Hong Kong's Police/gangsters was human rights lawyer and US citizen, John Clancey. Did you know that?
Over to you.
Three million people are held in CONCENTRATION CAMPS in China, as we debate. China is seeking WORLD DOMINANCE, along with Russia.
Under, the paranoid, erratic 45, the goal was plundering by the Commander-In-Chief, his family members, and, many, too, many Republicans.
Your skill, literary expertise, and expert debating skills are overshadowed by deep-seated, overt anger.
I'm at a loss to know why you would raise this. The US incarcerates nearly 2.3 million. But China has a few more people than we do. Had we China's population, we'd incarcerate well over 10 million. No state incarcerates an higher percentage of its people. Did you know that? If not, how can you work for justice in the US let alone China? Or is the point to punish made in the USA sins vicariously in China? Also, kindly note -- China's repression of its working class is justified no more than the US' repression of its working class.
And what is the premise of US foreign policy if not retaining post-WW II US global dominance? The US IS an imperial power. It continually stages provocations to acerbate tensions to invent rationales for yet more imperialist interventions abroad. Indeed, the rise of US fascism is due substantially to the erosion of US global position since WW II. Do you honestly think I've never met these objections? The GOP/right peddled this for decades! It looks like I'm seeing a 'throw the kitchen sink if you must, just stop them' policy.
Meet the standard, petty-bourgeoisie/pseudo-left/Democratic Party line!
This month's uprising and attempted fascist coup does not arise from global crisis in the world Capitalist system! The coup, which came within seconds of succeeding, reflects mere domestic conditions and Trump's personality! Don't examination history, international or class relations! The import of January 6, the plot against Governor Whitmer and other events are exactly as we represent them to be!
I'd sooner be caught naked and gnawing rocks than peddling that drivel! Precisely because of that pseudo-left line, the Democratic Party/petty-bourgeoisie class is incapable of mounting any principled resistance to fascism. Why keep saying stuff a good GOP/Trump supporter could promote?
The problem with forever saying 'socialism this' and 'socialism that' is this: eventually, you bump into someone who actually HAS a clue as to what socialism is.
How quaintly Freudian! Are you sure that it's my anger we're discussing?
Your post convinces me of two things.
1] Changing my moniker from IMT [International Marxist Tendency] to Trotsky's Spectre was definitely the correct move.
2] NT needs an international working-class history blog/post to provide context for evaluating the US fascist movement.
Create a group. There you can control membership, accumulate your works and the works of others who publish to your group and have discussions (private if you make your group private).
Interesting ... Thank you for that.
What, Trotsky's Spectre, what are you doing to bring back the economy, secure the borders, tamping down COVID19, in other words, are you rolling up your sleeve and helping, or, throwing bricks from the sidelines, as, many howling voices on the far right are prone to do?
Indeed, Tovarisch T,S,!
Comes the Revolution-- we will all eat Borscht!
Ladies and Gentlemen, Please Rise for the Internationale!
I tried borscht once. It tastes worse than poi.
What is overlooked in comparisons with the Holocaust is that the Jews weren't trying to get in.