Polls show majority of Republicans mistakenly think the 2020 election wasn't legitimate - CNNPolitics
Trump and the Republican Party's attempt to undermine American's faith in our system of government is having an effect on self-identified Republican voters. This will only cause them to continue to promote the Big Lie.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
(CNN)Poll of the week: A new Reuters/Ipsos poll finds that 55% of Republicans falsely believe Joe Biden's victory in the 2020 presidential election was the result of illegal voting or rigging. Additionally, 60% of Republicans incorrectly agree that the election was stolen from Republican Donald Trump.
These polls are the latest to indicate that Republicans mistakenly think that the 2020 election wasn't legitimate, when it clearly was.
What's the point: Republicans have been pushing legislation at the state level to make voting at least somewhat more difficult than it was for the 2020 election. This has come in the wake of polls showing many Republicans doubt the election result. It is unclear what effect this legislation will ultimately have on future election outcomes.
What is perfectly clear, however, is that Republicans' lack of faith in our current election infrastructure is a direct result of Trump's historic efforts to undermine the legitimacy of the 2020 results.
After Trump left the White House in January, Monmouth University asked Americans whether they thought the 2020 election was conducted fairly and confidently. Overall, most (66%) were confident it was.
But the lion's share of Republicans (65%) disagreed and said they were not confident at all the election was conducted fairly and accurately, which is consistent with the Ipsos polling spoken about above. This 65% is truly an anomaly in recent times.
Following every election from 2004 to 2016, the Pew Research Center queried voters on whether they were confident that the votes around the country were counted accurately.
The voters for the losing candidate in those elections had a lot more faith than Trump voters had in the results of the 2020 election. In every election from 2004 to 2016, between 8% and 14% of the voters of the losing candidate said they had no confidence at all that the election was legitimate. In 2016, just 11% of Hillary Clinton voters were not at all confident.
This means Republicans are somewhere between 40 points and 50 points more likely this time around to say they had no confidence in the results than the backers of any losing candidate in recent times.
The big difference this time around is that the losing candidate openly cast doubt on the results over and over again.
Republicans' doubts come despite a clear margin for Biden in the swing states that made the difference. Trump would have had to have won at least three states he lost by more than 10,000 votes (one he lost by more than 20,000) to merely keep Biden from reaching 270 electoral votes.
Trump's margins over Clinton in the pivotal swing states were similar to Biden's over Trump's in terms of percentage points, but Clinton voters didn't have anywhere near the same doubt of the results. Trump's false allegations have certainly shifted the way Republicans think about who should be able to vote. Last month, Pew asked Americans whether citizens should prove they really want to vote by registering ahead of time or whether everything should be done to make it easy for every citizen to vote.
Today, a mere 28% of Republicans say everything should be done to make it easy for citizens to vote. That compares with 71% who say citizens should have to prove they really want to vote.
Back in 2018 (before Trump lost), the split was far closer at 48% of Republicans who believed voting should be made easy as easy as possible to 51% who thought voters should have to prove it.
(Democrats, by comparison, have barely moved on the question with 85% arguing voting should be made as easy as possible. That was 84% in 2018.)
The only thing that has really changed between 2018 and 2021 was the 2020 election.
It should be noted that Republicans are in the minority on this issue. Most Americans (59%) say everything should be done to make things as easy as possible for citizens to vote.
Perhaps most importantly, it's not clear at all that efforts to appease those who have doubt in the system will actually work.
We can see this by looking at studies on voter photo identification laws, which a lot of Republicans have backed to ensure those who are voting are who they say they are.
Most Americans (72%) are in favor of them, according to a new AP/NORC poll. That makes it one of the few election reforms pushed by Republicans that most Americans agree with.
The problem is that studies show that having voter identification laws do not actually increase confidence in the legitimacy of the election process. There's a lot of reason to doubt that the Republican push to shift current election laws will actually give Republicans more faith in the system.
People who believe in conspiracy theories find ways to disbelieve the truth.
What would actually help people have more faith in our electoral process is that if Trump and other Republicans stopped lying to their voters and admitted the truth: Biden won the election legitimately.
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Trump and the Republican Party are doing Putin's work for him.
The majority of us are right about the illegitimate 2020 election that was stolen.
Hard to imagine that so many people are so gullible ... so willing to accept what an authority merely claims (against all evidence) as truth.
The majority of Americans know that there was virtually no fraud, irregularity, or any other problem with the 2020 election, except for Trump's phony allegations.
The only thing illegitimate is your comment which is a fraud and a lie.
Keep the lies and fraudulent comments off of my seeds.
The question is what cognitive disconnect is going on with the balance?
That is the question. Possibly there is more than one factor at play. Psychologists, sociologists, political scientists and historians are going to study this phenomenon for many years to come.
Exactly, because this is not normal partisan spin. This is flat out denial of reality. Trump lost the election. The facts prove it. It really is amazing to see the degree to which so many relenquish their critical thinking to an authority figure. It does sort of explain how a person like Hitler can rise. If a large group of people are so disposed to put reason and facts aside and simply adopt the reality of an authority, they ipso facto grant that authority undeserved power.
Suppressed critical thinking is dangerous.
Suppressed critical thinking is certainly dangerous.
I studied the rise of Hitler for many years. There were contributing factors including longstanding German cultural traits, a severe economic depression, Germany's defeat in World War 1 and the hated Treaty of Versailles, but suppressed critical thinking was a predominant and overriding causal element. Much so with the rise of Trump.
So prove it was stolen!
Some people have no interest in facts or truth. Only their own biases.
That and sheer delusion.
I wonder if faux-Christians get sent to hell for lying to themselves...?
Prove? There is not even evidence. There is nothing but Trump's lies.
I understand why people engage in partisanship but this goes beyond partisanship and indeed, as you note, into delusion.
I suspect many of these individuals are low-information voters who just go by sound-bites and what their peer groups think. That is, these are people who do not do any real research of any kind. Just go with the flow: "If 'my boys' think the election really was stolen then I guess it was stolen."
But how does one explain the informed individuals who still, inexplicably, in denial of all facts, hold that Trump won?
To answer your question, in a word, delusion. There's no other explanation. I think you are correct with your analysis of why some continue to buy into their nonsense.
He can't. All he has is his mouth, that not only supports Trumps lies, but, spews a great number of his own and thinks he is a judge and jury over everyone else. Yet, he claims to be such a good Christian, but, obviously, he has never read the Ten Commandments part about his own God's words about bearing false witness, and having no God before him. So MAGA's worship of Trump as his Savior goes against that Commandment as well.
But, what more can one expect from a CINO with diarrhea of the mouth and a malfunctioning brain.
I've noticed.
It's just pure partisanship.
Lol you know as well as I that for him belief is more important than facts or proof
Of course. Fortunately, we have higher standards.
Unbelievable
Unfortunately, it's all too believable.
It was totally legitimate so the fing Trump ass kissing snowflakes need to get over it and just deal with it. They can all go home, hug their Trumpy Bears, broil a tougher that shoe leather Trump steak, cry into their My Pillows, and down a few glasses of cheap Trump wine.
... by my math I make that to be around 40+ million bible thumping racist morons.
2/3 of Democrats believe Russia tampered with vote tallies in 2016.
I can't wait to see the outrage directed at those voters from the people upset by this poll.
No, 2/3 believe that Russia interfered in our election process in 2016 and that is backed up by every intel agency we have.
You have it right.
No, what I said is correct.
I can't wait to see the same outrage and name calling directed at Democrats now that it can't be denied.
For what can only be described as new conservatism embraced by the new republican party there is a movement to deny everything except that which weakens or fractures the American resolve.
It is even more ironic that this new movement has chosen as its standard bearer a mediocre/failed businessman whose only purpose of existence is to hide/shield everything about himself, his dealings, his alliances and the secrets of his past.
The democracies of the world have many enemies and it is prudent to question why this man at this time holds so much sway with one political party. Are the roots foreign? Has Trump accomplished categorized details of financial or other liabilities on many in the republican/conservative hierarchy in the same manner Putin has done so in the political/business structures of The Russian Federation?
Intimidation, fear and lots of bull shitting to get what trump wants, many who want about the same for now jumped on that bandwagon.
Now many politicians fear what trump can and will do to them if they don't kiss his ass.
Remember trump had promised everyone to fix their everything. No matter what the cost. Many want that. No matter what the cost.
Jim Jones did the same thing. Offer utopia as long as they follow along and ignore what doesn't fit.
Okay. Except what can Trump really do? Is he a paper tiger? Or could he threaten that he will unleash his rabid base to exact revenge, punishment on those that will not bow?
I'd say trump still has a lot of political power, that is what politicians need and trump knows how to get what HE wants. At any cost.
Yes his base, his money and his power can probably do a lot to make or break any politician trump cares to invest time and money and effort into .. either way in or out of congress.
Again, A lot of influence not unlike Jim Jones had. Follow me, bow down to me and I promise you utopia. Go against what I want and I'll bury you.
trump
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trumpsters - 11/3/20 to present.
MAGA I hate to but I have to agree, BUT REMEBER TRUMP SET THE BAR.
Evidently YOU thought all of that shit was OK under trump. In contrast Maga I don't think its OK under either.
Comparing Trump to democrat Jim Jones is a real stretch don’t you think.
Bidenistas- 1/20/21 to present.
No, it's not a stretch at all. Jim Jones was a cult leader and so is Trump. Steve's comparison is totally appropriate.
Perhaps a little stretch but a big stretch, not really.
Both leader lead their followers to a bad ending.
I'll bet many of the trump followers who are awaiting charges today wish they had never heard the name trump.
In the end trump didn't see to care that he endangered so many people including his own loyal followers to try to get HIS way. Also including our own VP.
It always was and always will be TRUMP first, His family, HIS followers and HIS nation.
A cult ? perhaps
Cult like ? yes
12 May 2015 / by David Brear:
The Universal Identifying Characteristics of a Cult
Deception:
Cults are presented externally as traditional associations.
self-appointed sovereign leadership. cults are instigated and ruled by psychologically dominant individuals
Manipulation. cults employ coordinated techniques of social and psychological persuasion (variously described as: ‘mental manipulation’, ‘coercive behavior modification’, ‘group pressure’, ‘thought reform’, ‘ego destruction’, ‘mind control’, ‘brainwashing’, etc.). (Mass rallies and lies) Big lies ! "Covid will just disappear ... stop the steal"
Cults can be of any size, duration and level of criminality. They comprise groups, and/or sub-groups, of previously diverse individuals bonded by their unconscious acceptance of the self-gratifying, but wholly imaginary, scenario that they alone represent a positive or protective force of purity and absolute righteousness derived from their leadership’s exclusive access to a superior or superhuman knowledge, and that they alone oppose a negative or adversarial force of impurity and absolute evil.
The instigators of cults seek to overwhelm their adherents emotionally and intellectually by pretending that progressive initiation into their own superior or superhuman knowledge (coupled with total belief in its authenticity and unconditional deference to the authority of its higher initiates) will defeat a negative or adversarial force of impurity and absolute evil, and lead to future, exclusive redemption in some form of secure Utopian existence.
The leaders of destructive cults seek to control all information entering not only their adherents’ minds, but also that entering the minds of casual observers. Twitter
In cults, a core-group of adherents can be gradually dissociated from external reality and reformed into deployable agents, and/or de facto slaves, and/or expendable combatants, etc, furthering the hidden criminal objectives of their leaders, completely dependent on a collective paranoid delusion of absolute moral and intellectual supremacy fundamental to the maintenance of their individual self-esteem and related psychological function. ... (Capitol insurrectionist who are now being charged, many high level trump minions are in the work of facing charges like Giuliano)
The instigators of cults can continue to organize the creation, and/or dissolution, and/or subversion, of further (apparently independent) corporate structures pursuing lawful, and/or unlawful, activities in order to prevent, and/or divert, investigation and isolate themselves from liability.
Repression of all dissent. The leaders of the most-dangerous destructive cults are megalomaniacal psychopaths (i.e. suffering from a chronic mental disorder, especially when resulting in paranoid delusions of grandeur and self-righteousness, and the compulsion to pursue grandiose objectives). The unconditional deference of their deluded adherents only serves to confirm, and magnify, the leaders’ own delusions.
...............................................
Cult like ? yes
Off topic
How ? Why and was it worth interrupting our conversation ?
Your call though.
I do not believe Trump has a lot of political power per se'. But I do believe he knows that a significant force can create chaos and great damage to American democracy. I personally believe he is a traitor. The events at Helsinki if revealed will bear this out.
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I'm not sure how much political power trump has. He does seem to still have a large following that are still loyal to anything trump says. I think millions of people will still vote for whoever trump tells them to and hate anyone trump tells them to hate.
That seems like a substantial amount of power at his disposal. Much more than an ordinary citizen for sure. Even a rich one. Probably more than many congress people even.
Sadly bbl-1, I doubt we've seen the end of the damage trump does to our nation.
Jamestown was the first english colony in America. What cult was happening there ?
I think you are right about that, Steve. Sad, indeed.
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Too bad, it would have been nice to have a chance to respond if I cared to.
That is alright. There are foreign governments and leaders who relish in the dissension the former president creates in America.
Do not understand the 'deletion'. The statement is true.
As Bill Maher pointed out, when American colleges are teaching "...courses in 'The Philosophy of Star Trek','The Sociology of Seinfeld,' and 'Surviving the Coming Zombie Apocalypse'? Those are real..." what do you expect? When I was in school we Canadian kids use to joke that they teach a course in basket weaving at University of Miami, and as a teenager we used to mix with kids from Buffalo during summer vacation at Crystal Beach, Ontario, on the north shore of Lake Erie just west of Buffalo across the Niagara River boundary, and the American kids would complain that they only got 97% or 98% on their final exams when we struggled to reach a 75% honours grade - that told me something about American education. So if America wants to reduce the percentage of conspiracy believers and ignorance, and teach people how to actually think for themselves and learn to be critical of the bullshit, maybe America should make some big changes to its educational system.
courses in 'The Philosophy of Star Trek','The Sociology of Seinfeld,' and 'Surviving the Coming Zombie Apocalypse'
Any parent who financially backs kids taking these courses should have their heads examined.
I am having a hard time imagining this many people who simply accept what Trump (of all people) merely claims with no evidence and especially since those claims have been shown to be pure bullshit.
No wonder to me why other nations roll their eyes at us.
These beliefs are the result of a mixture of internet fabrications, Trump's completely dishonest narcissism, and good old fashioned white racism.
eliefs are the result of a mixture of internet fabrications, Trump's completely dishonest narcissism, and good old fashioned white racism.
Explain why so many Democrats believe Russia tampered with vote totals in 2016 , Bush was complicit in 9/11 or that thousands of blacks are murdered by police every year.
I don't believe that poll. I do believe Russia interfered with our election on Trump's behalf in 2016 though, by flooding American social media with fake news on Trump's behalf. Maybe some of the poll respondents are mixed up.
Even if some Dems believe that, does it make it right? Just like the trumpers believe he was cheated out of the office, doesn't make them right.
Comparing one to the other does not dismiss anything.
The point is that Democrats believe a lot of conspiracy theories as well. It's funny to read through this thread understanding how much nonsense democrats believe while they attack Republicans for believing Trump was cheated out of 2020. [deleted]
Well you found somebody with some. One would have to be blind not to see the extremes on either side.
In this day and age, moderate is a bad word.
Fighting over which side is worse does nothing.
Imo it gives the offenders a slide as we are talking about degrees and not condemning all their actions.
I never engaged in Russia-gate bashing, etc. My take was always to wait for the facts to arrive (and the matter was never definitively resolved). I hold off precisely because partisan spin and exaggeration is replete in our nation nowadays.
In contrast, the facts on Trump's con-job are well-established. There is no question whatsoever in my mind, based on the evidence, that Trump simply lied that he had evidence showing he won ('in a landslide' even). He lost the election legitimately.
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Explain why so many Republicans think the Democratic Party is a Satanic pedophile cult that eats human babies.
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I’m so proud to be a part of the majority of my party on this [issue....deleted]
To be proud of being wrong is a recipe for continuing to be wrong.
Bottom line, there is no question that Trump lost the election. There is no question that there was no mass fraud that enabled Biden to illegitimately win the White House. Your beliefs fly in the face of evidenced reality. It is as stupid to believe Trump won the election as it is to believe the Earth is flat. In both cases the facts clearly show the believer is out of touch with reality.
Thus it is irrational (and I would suggest foolish) for anyone to continue to carry Trump's water by insisting that his lies are actually truth.
Except that it can be used to promote continued dissention and controversy which could be the goal of some
Sure, but that goal comes with the price of being taken as an utter fool.
And to what end? People are not influenced by fools. Except, of course, in this way:
Also, and worse, when individuals declare extreme stereotypical positions they further the stereotype for the entire group. Those conservatives who continue with the incredibly idiotic claim that Trump won the election unfortunately taint all who identify as conservatives by furthering the negative stereotype.
Trump has always been insane and continues to be insane.
So true.