Opinion: Liz Cheney: The GOP is at a turning point. History is watching us.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Opinion: Liz Cheney: The GOP is at a turning point. History is watching us.
Opinion by Liz Cheney
May 5, 2021 at 4:05 p.m. CDT
Liz Cheney, a Republican, represents Wyoming’s at-large congressional district in the U.S. House.
In public statements again this week, former president Donald Trump has repeated his claims that the 2020 election was a fraud and was stolen. His message: I am still the rightful president, and President Biden is illegitimate. Trump repeats these words now with full knowledge that exactly this type of language provoked violence on Jan. 6. And, as the Justice Department and multiple federal judges have suggested, there is good reason to believe that Trump’s language can provoke violence again. Trump is seeking to unravel critical elements of our constitutional structure that make democracy work — confidence in the result of elections and the rule of law. No other American president has ever done this.
The Republican Party is at a turning point, and Republicans must decide whether we are going to choose truth and fidelity to the Constitution. In the immediate wake of the violence of Jan. 6, almost all of us knew the gravity and the cause of what had just happened — we had witnessed it firsthand.
House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy (Calif.) left no doubt in his public remarks. On the floor of the House on Jan. 13, McCarthy said: “The president bears responsibility for Wednesday’s attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.” Now, McCarthy has changed his story.
I am a conservative Republican, and the most conservative of conservative values is reverence for the rule of law. Each of us swears an oath before God to uphold our Constitution. The electoral college has spoken. More than 60 state and federal courts, including multiple Trump-appointed judges, have rejected the former president’s arguments, and refused to overturn election results. That is the rule of law; that is our constitutional system for resolving claims of election fraud.
The question before us now is whether we will join Trump’s crusade to delegitimize and undo the legal outcome of the 2020 election, with all the consequences that might have. I have worked overseas in nations where changes in leadership come only with violence, where democracy takes hold only until the next violent upheaval. America is exceptional because our constitutional system guards against that. At the heart of our republic is a commitment to the peaceful transfer of power among political rivals in accordance with law. President Ronald Reagan described this as our American “miracle.”
While embracing or ignoring Trump’s statements might seem attractive to some for fundraising and political purposes, that approach will do profound long-term damage to our party and our country. Trump has never expressed remorse or regret for the attack of Jan. 6 and now suggests that our elections, and our legal and constitutional system, cannot be trusted to do the will of the people. This is immensely harmful, especially as we now compete on the world stage against Communist China and its claims that democracy is a failed system.
For Republicans, the path forward is clear.
First, support the ongoing Justice Department criminal investigations of the Jan. 6 attack. Those investigations must be comprehensive and objective; neither the White House nor any member of Congress should interfere.
Second, we must support a parallel bipartisan review by a commission with subpoena power to seek and find facts; it will describe for all Americans what happened. This is critical to defeat the misinformation and nonsense circulating in the press and on social media. No currently serving member of Congress — with an eye to the upcoming election cycle — should participate. We should appoint former officials, members of the judiciary and other prominent Americans who can be objective, just as we did after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The commission should be focused on the Jan. 6 attacks. The Black Lives Matter and antifa violence of last summer was illegal and reprehensible, but it is a different problem with a different solution.
Finally, we Republicans need to stand for genuinely conservative principles, and steer away from the dangerous and anti-democratic Trump cult of personality. In our hearts, we are devoted to the American miracle. We believe in the rule of law, in limited government, in a strong national defense, and in prosperity and opportunity brought by low taxes and fiscally conservative policies.
There is much at stake now, including the ridiculous wokeness of our political rivals, the irrational policies at the border and runaway spending that threatens a return to the catastrophic inflation of the 1970s. Reagan formed a broad coalition from across the political spectrum to return America to sanity, and we need to do the same now. We know how. But this will not happen if Republicans choose to abandon the rule of law and join Trump’s crusade to undermine the foundation of our democracy and reverse the legal outcome of the last election.
History is watching. Our children are watching. We must be brave enough to defend the basic principles that underpin and protect our freedom and our democratic process. I am committed to doing that, no matter what the short-term political consequences might be.
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'Funny' thing about this is that they want to replace Liz who had a 97% record of voting for Trump with Elise Stefanik who has only a 76% record of voting for Trump. Elise must have kissed something salty.
she's probably not skinny enough for trump
Careful you don't get labeled as a misanthrope.
She looks fine to me. I just dont think she's Trump's type.
I don't think she would be 'rapeable' to the former occupant of the White House. Her pussy probably isn't grabbable to the trumpturd.
Neither do I. Trump clearly like the other extreme - very thin models. However John, when it comes to a world view, she is definitely "Trump's type."
I would have to agree. She supports conspiracy theories just like he does.
That's what I think when I see your whining posts.
Actually though third graders are more mature.
She's got a lot of junk in her trunk.
Someday maybe you can talk policy. As to the 2020 election Donald Trump is entitled to his opinion. I think that is all you seem to care about.
I could talk about policy as much as you want.
The fact is that very few of what you call Trump's 'achievements' had the support of a majority of Americans. The wall certainly didnt. The travel ban certainly didnt. His Supreme Court selections hovered at about 50% approval if I recall correctly. His stance on climate change did not have majority approval.
So why should the half, or more, of the nation who broadly disapproved of Trump's policies give him a break on his massive bad character issues because of "policies"?
That doesnt even make any sense in itself, but the truth is that the character issues, aka being unfit to hold public office , are a prerequisite to any discussion of policies. For some reason you refuse to understand that.
What fricking nonsense. You actually think Trump is "entitled" to inflict his bs on this country on an ongoing basis? What about the people's right to be left alone?
I actually think they hope each and every day that Trump says something publicly so these whinny leftist bitches have something to get triggered over.
Speaking of whining, non-stop, incessant whining . . . . such whiny little bitch losers . . . constantly whining and pissing and moaning and taunting and trolling and deflecting and projecting. And whining . . . . non stop whining . .. . whiny little bitch losers
You can't get that big fat pig trumpturd to shut his big fat pig shitty mouth - he's constantly spewing that the election was stolen from his big fat pig self - spewing his shit from both ends and his supporters eat every bit up with a spoon.
Tex trump is on many people's minds, he wouldn't have it any other way.
trump is so desperate for attention he formed his own web site after he was banned from the existing ones.
Likely soon he will start doing rallies again.
Personally I look for trump to be a thorn in the side of America till the day he drops dead.
As you can see above.
Wow....such intellectual thought..s/
And the easiest thing to do is just ignore him.
No, the easiest thing would be for the Republican Party to tell him to go to hell.
Problem is, too many continue to follow Trump. He continues to damage the R party and many seem to either not care or not realize this.
Let me make this simple for you, John...
Just because he is someone you despise ONLY because he beat Hillary (you can't deny this), does not mean others can't support him.
You and your leftist friends are pissed that he put the loon leftist utopia on hold, forcing them to try and jam that utopia down our throats today, knowing that in 18 short months, they are going to lose far more seats than Obama did, and may not get back the majority in anything for a very, very long time.
What we call that is telling the loon leftists to go to hell.
Do you think Trump is helping the R party by continuing this brain-dead-obvious charade that he actually won the election?
Do you want Trump to run in 2024 or would you prefer someone with Trump's platform (but not his character, personality, etc.) to run instead?
I replied to Fly in another thread concerning this, but I will repeat it here.
Trump's days as an active, running, politician are over, but he will continue to work up the base, especially to retake the House and Senate in 22.
I am a DeSantis supporter, have been for a long time. (Disclaimer, he and I are from the same city in Florida but do not know each other...that I know of).
DeSantis is a Trump supporter, and vice versa, but that does not mean I think Trump should run again.
As far as him still claiming he won, no, he is not helping, but I think less and less are listening to this aspect.
Bugsy , let me explain something to you. Trump was the most dishonest, corrupt president in American history. Not to mention his daily buffoonery.
Anyone who still supports him has lost their mind.
Not really sure about that.
Thanks for your direct answer.
I will add that I think Trump's participation will harm the R midterm chances.
If he keeps bringing up the 20 election, then yes. Otherwise, he is a force to not be understated.
I think he divides the party and continues to tarnish the party and thus dissuades independents. I know that any politician who aligns with Trump has dug a hole for him/herself in my eyes. To me there is simply no possible excuse for aligning with Trump given not just his well known low character but the historically outrageous 2-month con job he engaged in after losing. That really should have sealed his fate. I continue to be surprised that anyone aligns with him after that and can only shake my head at those who continue to support him.
Well , to tell you the truth, the 30,000 lies and misstatements, the 600 different people he personally insulted from his official twitter account, and his attempt to bribe the leader of another country into helping him smear his election opponent, among many other things, should have sealed his fate long before his last second end game.
I agree TiG
IMO: For far too many Americans it's now trump before party and party before country.
and they want to call themselves the Patriots.
How ironically ridiculous !
Someday someone will write a book about all the shit trump did during those 4 years... and it will be loooong !
Those are your opinions, John.
There is a reason why the leftists could not oust him from office during his 4 years.
They, and you, had nothing to prove.
'Somebody' adores a little 'psyche" side-hustle too much, methinks.
I agree, but what he did after losing was so blatant, so widely known, so inexcusable and so utterly ridiculous that I figured even his most sycophantic supporters would wake up.
Nope.
Yeah, I know all dumbturd supporters are quite the intellectuals. . .
Trump could care less that he lost. He is just pissed that he no longer has access to the government piggy bank. All the Trumpturds here better start sending him their money.
She has curves and there is nothing wrong with that
Not at all! She's got quite the
Badonkadonk
So fat ugly stupid ladies are your thingy?
Actually, Trump was and is guilty of everything he has been accused of.
The TV trials to come will prove that.
They are the ROT in patRiOTs.
The former Republican Party must realize by now that on a spectrum the (Big) Lie is at the opposite end of Truth!
These red states can not be supported for lying. It goes against everything we have been taught all our lives about what is right, good, and wholesome. In this one regard, good for you: Liz Cheney. Stand up for yourself, your people, your nation, the truth.
She is none of those. That exhibition of misogyny earns you a big BUH BYE!
Elise Stefanik is not fat. I think she falls more into the "voluptuous" category.
The stupid part is another subject. She supports Trump so I think she has a lot of 'splainin to do.
Not fat ?
Please.
i think the politically correct term would be " curvy"
uncle told me riding the sportster would be great on the straightaways , but you always have more fun leaning into the curves ......
I would say ''pleasingly plump''.
Or ''that lady has an ass two ax handles wide''.
Lol, I was thinking of that comment that you've made a few times before, lol.
Elise Stefanik is my Representative in Congress. When she first came to office, I was open to sound representation and gave her the benefit of the doubt. At first, there was a little bit of space between her and the trumpturd. Then, she wrapped her lips around his putrescent anal proboscis and that went out the window.
The republican party, if they actually oust Liz Cheney from her leadership role, might want to consider a name change.
"Trump's Shit Sucking Delusionists" sounds appropriate. Calling them all "cock suckers" would be too nice an appellation for the elected officials who knowingly follow his lies and deceits to power. Shame on him, shame on them, and shame on us for allowing the country to sink to the twisted depths of his tortured soul.
It's beyond a 'shame' thing with Trump.
"them" who allow the LIES to not be challenged due to political plus's subtract from ALL of US so many times over and above, as our forefathers and mothers produce force centrifugal as they spin like whirling dervishes as this Tops what they ever could have foreseen as it's a fckn obscene to see what so many gave life and limb for, get thrown out the fckn door , for, for political advantage over the mentally disadvantaged, as from this point of vantage, it doesn't look good, and nor should.
Guess i could have done more, but made enuff enemies calling out this twisted Orange clown, cause like he, i'll never go down without a fight, yet, yet my fight is truly 'RIGHT' and not just from it, cause i dare care for real about a country on the downward spiral , as oh so many swim in de river De nial
Boy that's for damn sure.
LOL! That's pretty damned good because his idiot supporters lap up all the shit he spews from both ends. Their lips are permanently attached to and their heads are firmly up - his enormous disgusting pig fat ass.
I applaud you!
You are talking about voting for Conservative policies. Stefanik is a Trump loyalist. Cheney is a never-Trumper. The war is already over. Trump won and Cheney lost. Politico reported Wednesday that she is not bothering to canvass members in the hope of holding onto her leadership role. Once we heard Pelosi quoting Cheney, she was toast.
Cheney voted for Trump policies 93% of the time. More than Stefanik. The only reason Trumpists have issues with Cheney is her refusal to lie about the election and her vote to impeach Trump. Otherwise she's voted more conservatively and inline than Stefanik -
Where Stafanik broke with Trump
She voted against the Trump tax cut package,
Was one of only 13 Republicans to vote to repeal Trump's emergency declaration to appropriate border wall funding,
Called to repeal the law on state/local tax deduction caps,
Voted to block Trump on the Paris Climate Accords,
Voted to reauthorize the Export-Import Bank,
Called to provide disaster aid to Puerto Rico and additional money to the USPS,
Voted for the Equality Act,
This year also voted for the Farm Workforce Modernization Act where Trumpists have claimed it's amnesty for migrant workers.
I heard on tv today that Elise Stefanik appeared on Steve Bannon's podcast either yesterday or today. His podcast is a hive of conspiracy nonsense.
This is your Republican Party going forward Vic.
trumpturd won what?
Cheney voted with Trump 92.9% of the time.
Stefanik voted with Trump 77.7% of the time.
##Who'd of thunk we'd be looking at Liz Cheney as a voice of reason...
The formerly named Republican Party thought they could dip their toe in to the pool of corruption; Donald Trump snapped and dragged the whole lot of them down into its ocean.
I agree with her. The Rs need to lose Trump; he is a disaster for the party.
It sickens me to see so many actually believe this nonsense of 'rightful president'.
Trump energizes voters. It's the only thing he's good at and why he's still around. Without Trump there are less conservatives going to the polls.
I hear he's planning a summer grievance tour. He'll still do rallies and still energize his base.
This is the Republican's race to lose as historically the incumbent party loses seats in the mid-terms.
Would you prefer Trump go quietly into the sunset and have the R party consolidate around a new leader (one with a shred of character) or do you want him to continue to engage and thus divide the R party?
Since I'm not a winger (left or right) the point is moot.
As I've said many times - My failing is expecting more thoughtful reason around here.
I'll not bank on anything this far out.
He energized them to become seditious traitors.
You are probably right. Frankly it won’t matter much what Trump does or doesn’t do for the next couple years, the party that holds the presidency almost always loses the midterms.
I say this every time and am right basically every time. What I find amusing is that every midterm cycle, without fail, supporters of the party that holds the presidency insist until the end that their side will come out on top. Commenters like Texan were doing exactly that just 2 years ago and of course they were wrong and went strangely silent afterwards.
This cycle will be no different.
"It sickens me to see so many actually believe this nonsense of 'rightful president'."
It's mind boggling. A certain poster the other day exclaimed/whined/pissed/moaned about the 'president' losing his Facebook access. Had an 'article' about it.
I told this poster that HE'S NOT THE 'president'
That POS is not 'president' now and as far as I'm concerned, never was.
I hear whining? Where is that coming from? That pesky incessant whining and taunting and trolling . . . so tiresome
The Republican Party is dead: Long Live the Big Lie Party!!
Truly a bizarre situation. I wonder what Cheney's response will be if she is removed from the leadership rolls. She could cause some headaches among the Republicans if they do remove her.
I'm just going to stand back and watch the trumpster scum split and then wreck the party.
What other choice do we really have ?
One vote and protesting.
When the politicians and media have divided "We the People's" power to the point they only need half the nation to get their way. The other half likely isn't going to be happy.
And we've been dancing to this same insane song for many years.
IMO: trump is a product of that insanity and sadly it's not over yet.
I'm sure trump has learned some of what doesn't work and what does. So I doubt he is done influencing our government any way he can to make this country what HE thinks it should be, at any cost to others.
As we have seen trump also always protects trump, others are dispensable.
IMO: trump is far from hurting others to get what HE wants. Including people of both parties that oppose him.
Sad.
half a million plus dead americans to covid is the proof.
"half a million plus dead americans to covid is the proof."
And that big fat pig still waddles this earth. There is no karma where this big fat pig is involved.
I think time will not be good to the president that said He wanted to be the Best president ever.
Karma sometimes takes it's time.
Plus, Karma was trump trumping himself out of power.
If trump would have responsibly faced the pandemic instead of irresponsibly saying stuff like "It will just disappear" over and over he very well may have been re elected.
trump trumped trump !
IMO: About the only way it could end. I always said "Let trump have enough rope and eventually he'll hang himself."
Smiles !!!
Then she better get started. Because the Big Lie Party is looking to go full bore. She is a handicap as for as they are concerned. Mentally, she is 'dropped' already, she just has not hit the skids yet.
That is what the former Republican 'body' gets for trying to play around with a life-long villain. Now Donald Trump is consuming republicans like:
No doubt , but the party leadership can and will choose whom they think represents them best in leadership positions while they are a minority , as for how much of a headache she can be , would remain to be seen , short of changing party affiliation , she already knows she faces a not so easy re election campaign back in wyo.
speaking as one that didnt vote for her either time she ran , i kinda doubt she is going to make it out of the primaries this time around . IF she is primaried out , she can and likely would run as a 3rd party indie .
Why didnt i vote for her ? i cant vote in the primaries so i dont get a choice there ( that can change with a simple registration change) , I liked neither the rep or dem candidate last go round on the general ballot and voted a 3rd party candidate knowing they nor the dem candidate was going to win anyway.
me voting for cheney this time coming up is kinda like some of you all voting for a GOP candidate . not impossible , but not likely to happen either.
With a year and a half to go before she runs for election again, I would guess that she could cause some problems within the party. Whether she does or not is up for speculation and we should start finding out in the next month or so.
I wish someone would tell them that.
The primaries here are just about a year away for the 22 elections , and candidates are already ginning up finding out if they have voter or financial support.
I think finding out in the next month or so is being a bit hopeful , i would say 2-3 months is a little more realistic , but of course im not talking national politics , but rather state politics , but only because i think the state level is the key when it comes to who gets sent to DC.
It is TIME for these republicans who are getting SHIT-CANNED by Donald Trump to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK! Donald Trump is the worst and he lost and yet he still gets to EAT other people's lunch?!!! Are these people for real?!!!
Trump is trash, plain and simple. And former republicans can't push his carcass out of the way!! The former republican party died a feeble death!
IMO: trump still has too much of a hold on too many republican voters and too many politicians will do most anything to keep their power.
It's a hard uphill fight to fight trumpism if you are a republican. Unfortunately IMO: the republican party has lost some good politicians over trump and I doubt that's over either.
Liz Cheney and the 'famed' Cheney family, among all these other "mainstream" conservatives have nothing else to lose. . . go out swinging. Either take back the scraps of there former party or get the "H" out of the Big Lie Party's way. Because as of now, Donald Trump is shit-canning all and I do mean all, opposition to lying, scheming, and dare I say it - "white majority patriarch politics."
And people are hanging around hoping that they can benefit from the 'crumbs' that fall off the Trump table. Haven't any of these 'fools' not figured out that Donald Trump has a political 'hit' list and he is not afraid to use it? He is picking them off one by one!
Liz Cheney, is shit-canned plain and simple. So if she has something to say that can take down Donald Trump - now is the time to voice it.
One more thing: Donald Trump could give a flying you know what about Cheney's political career or if she goes and sells used cars. She won't work for him in the manner of kissing his. . .whatever. . . . Thus, in Trump vernacular:
"Liz Cheney, you're fired!"
Now, you can see it clearly: Donald Trump has not change one iota, because no one in the former republican party makes him respect them! They all have just walked off into the sunset and leaving Donald with their political 'property.'
I doubt Cheney has any more than anyone else on trump. trump has always watched out for trump just ask anyone in the trails of tears he leaves in his wake.
trump has always watched out for himself in his quest to get his own ways, all of his life, All others are expendable.
What a leader of men... Fckin sarc !!
In true form though, trump has made a good cult leader.
sad !
I said years ago that the republicans couldn't even defend their own party yet they expect us to trust them to defend the nation ?
No Thanks !
It is even worse than that.
Let me step back for a moment. The Georgia Secretary of State put Donald Trump on 'blast' over a telephone call pleading for theft of the Georgia 2020 election. He is partially shit-canned too. But, at least, he is going down when it finishes playing out with some honor. Such "reveals" of the dirty, corrupt, activities perpetrated behind closed doors help us, the nation, and the world to see what we, the nation, and the world could only speculate about before.
Worse than that! Donald Trump is a cult of personality and he adores it. One of the reasons Donald Trump never criticized other autocratic (cult of personalities) leaders like: Putin, (Kim Jun) Il, Duerte, and so forth is like-mindedness. That is, Donald Trump does not give a damn about anybody else rights and privileges.
What a good cult leader wants is people to serve and that by doing what(ever) they are told!
I understand and fully agree.
IMO: trump is and has been probably one of the greatest threats to our federal republic even yet today.
Divided within and left vulnerable, to both internal and external forces that would love our power and the riches of "WE The People"
trump's legacy
and it ain't over.
Democrats and their party affiliates best get oft their butts. Yes now! And get the liberal citizenry properly aligned with the "new south" voting policy 'traps'!
Consider this: Some conservatives, in red states, are running "shadow governments" in the sense that they are no longer waiting (or caring) what democrats and independents think or feel about them or their red states
. Think of it as if red states are right now politically 'divorcing' themselves from the whole of this country. This is "in yo face!" This is the citizenry being told to CHOOSE A SIDE.
It is what conservative talk radio has been about going all the way back to before Reagan. Finally, they have a big enough 'standard-bearer' to unite behind to be as cruel as these members of our country have wanted to be (for a really long time): Donald J. Trump.
It ain't over. Donald Trump makes it plain. It does not bother his so-called conscience to go down in history (books) as the singular head of the group of citizens who destroy the world's leading democracy. We can read Donald Trump's actions. Cut through all the bull patty he and his surrogates keep flinging up in the air (calling it "smoke')!
SEE THE MAN and you will see the real madness Donald and his millions are prepared to unload on this land of ours. (They have no intention of sharing this country equally.) America: The (true) land of the free . . . is a pipe dream as far as Donald and his surrogates are concerned!
I agree, unfortunately it seems to me that Biden and the democrats are in "We have the Power now" mode.
IF the democrats don't at least make a damn good effort to start compromising with the other side, the other side will get and stay all riled up and the democrats will possibly lose the power come the next election.
That is the power struggle pattern that we have developed and have lived now for years and many elections. Back and forth goes the power.
And our problems go unsolved for the most part.
sad
Steve, my concern is not so much that democratic party leaders in states, congress, and the presidency bring recalcitrant republicans around (they will simply get strung along until the midterms).
My concern is Democrats are being compelled to detach from their second nature of being inclusive of all (republicans too) and make a cold calculation to go it along and leave it up to all voters to support or reject what they have 'concluded' by 2022! The distractions are coming 'fast and furious' and there is a great many projects that need starting. But, it is not - never - too early to start preparing the citizenry for the 2022 election wins!
Keep an Eye on the Prize at all times!!
Mitch McConnell just gave all democrats that can 'hear' fair warning: 'I will stall and 'undo' democrat handiwork up to and touching 2022 if you let me.'
I have a lot of respect for politicians that are willing to put the country over their party, their office and even their future in politics if need be to do what they believe is best for our country.
That is what I look for when I vote and why I research each candidate of all political parties for each elected office on every ballot.
I vote for People who understand Bipartisanship and are willing to work across the aisle as well.
IMO: When people vote straight party line that is how bad people get power over us. So I don't do it.
Country before party, used to be respected.
Seemingly not so much today.
sad !
The only two spines in the GOP are Cheney and Mittens and the other republicans can't stand either one of them... Very telling.
Any truth tellers are not welcome in Trump's gop!
Liz Cheney chiding us to revere the rule of law is just self-serving bullshit. Cheney writes the law; she doesn't revere the law. Cheney is only trying to protect her position to do whatever she damn well pleases. That's no different than Democrats claiming to be protecting democracy by dictating what we are supposed to do. Congress is the farthest thing from a democracy.
Our two party political system is rigged. The two parties have complete and total control over elections. The two parties will not allow democracy to threaten their control over the country. The two parties twist the rule of law to protect themselves. The two parties have even perverted the courts to protect the absolute, authoritarian power of the two parties.
Focusing attention on the Jan. 6 riot or insurrection or terrorist attack or whatever fits political expediency is deliberately intended to distract us from how badly the two parties have rigged the political system in the United States. It's all about them; it's not about us. Those in Congress do little to protect us but do everything to protect themselves. Those in Congress will let cities burn (and throw gasoline on the fire) but call up the military to protect themselves.
A rigged Republican Party doesn't need to have a future. Let it fall apart and fade away. A rigged Democratic Party doesn't need to have a future. Let it fall apart and fade away.
On this we agree.
Our two party system is in need of serious revamping. However, your comment offers no positive suggestion or recommendations. So we have no clue what you 'support' besides tearing down what we have. And no, nothing, is not a solution.
Why doesn't BLM form its own political party? I'm not trying to pick on BLM. But BLM is an example of a popular national movement pursuing specific political goals. Wouldn't the interests of the BLM movement be better represented by its own political party?
We both know that the two political parties have rigged the political system so that a BLM political party would be disadvantaged in elections. Candidates of a BLM party would not be allowed to participate in national debates, would face more stringent requirements to be placed on ballots, and would receive little free campaign advertising from the mass media. Candidates for a BLM party would not be invited for softball interviews by political pundits. Candidates of a BLM party couldn't compete for sufficient campaign money to overcome the disadvantages built into the political system by the two parties.
A BLM political party could only become viable through a grassroots political effort. But that grassroots effort would attract the attention of one of the two political parties and will be absorbed by one party. The two political parties can do that because the political system has been rigged to make it possible. The specific political interests of a BLM party would be diluted and subverted for the benefit of the two political party system.
The only way to fight the rigged political system is through grassroots political efforts. Since the two parties have rigged the political system in their favor, that grassroots effort must include infiltrating and destroying the two parties from the inside as a prerequisite.
I doubt there is a solution to this problem. It is a systemic problem that has evolved and now invades every aspect of our political process. How do the people get statespersons (rather than slimy career politicians) in the major parties? The immediate answer is to vote out all the career politicians. Clearly that does not happen because the electorate keeps returning name-recognized politicians to office.
There needs to be a movement that catches on wherein most people are aligned to drain the swamp themselves with their votes. And it needs to be a massive change otherwise we will simply arm the existing flawed system with some new 'operators' and nothing will change.
Like what, exactly? I applaud you for always 'reaching' Nerm_L. It does show that you are willing to psuh the envelope. But not this.
BLM issue is helping to end policing violence against minorities and by extension, the white majority, in my opinion and to my knowledge.
That said, I do wish other parties can form, but to do so they will simply have to capture the interests of millions of voters like the two major parties continue to do. It won't be easy to shake up the line-up; whoever said it would be?
What severely hampers party growth in our country is this "immediacy" we have in our two party system to buck 'off' the incumbent! We need a good solid spell of calm in our political wherewithal to see clearly what other choices and 'players' can come to be.
A political revolution? That will take a slate of 'charismatic' men and women with 'snazzy' and inventive ideas and the ability to 'wow.' It can happen. And possibly soon. Fortunately, or unfortunately, many of our politicians are aging out. This "new blood" should be chopping at the bit (independents too can get in the 'receiving line') to build name recognition to slide in 'home' as one and several 'old schoolers' chimes out!
He or she must be fresh, inventive, articulate, smart, and able to capture the imagination!
Achieving the critical mass of these new individuals is the initial challenge.
Where do we stand on an Independent(ce) Party?! A party dedicated for the people, by the people, and of the people? ('Pull-out' of the two major parties everybody who is tired of the same old 'hat tricks and balloons.' Leave the extremists in both parties out and behind. Play to the young and mid-aged voters. Play to the people.
"Finally something of your own."
"Let crazy uncles and aunties have their old coo-coo parties to themselves."
Now, that can be NOVEL/FRESH/INTERESTING.
Donald Trump, an extraordinary loser, made taking over and reconstituting a major political party look like child's play! (I am not saying that to be mean either. Donald lost an election, got impeached twice, and more or less killed citizens of this country through inaction and anemic actions and yet he is a true party leader.)
The fundamental problems of career politicians and a system designed to secure and exploit power was not changed by Trump. Hell, if he had accomplished fixing that problem so that we have true statespersons working for the people I would be a Trump supporter.
Allow Donald Trump to continue 'working through the steps' and once his authoritarian regime is installed he will intend to determine courses and systems for several generations. Starting with the erasure of Rule Of Law. (Who needs that when you have a so-called, "constitutionally selected" single-minded leader.?)
We can look around the world at present authoritarian regimes to see who gets "installed" under an authoritarian and how exploitation 'explodes' in the face of a former republic. Consider Myanmar and its travails of the moment. Consider Hong Kong and its reconstitution into China proper. Remember Crimea and its 'lost' to the authoritarian regime of Russia.
Our very own future wannabe tryrant is working to 'connect never before connected dots' in the United States. . . I fear even if he has to render our union: "Divorced."
Donald Trump has 'tasted' the raw power of this country; will it be his ambrosia?
As I said, BLM is only an example. It could just as easily be OWS, TEA Party, AGW, or MAGA. BLM hasn't been the only popular national movement in recent history.
Instead of forming political parties that represent specific grassroots interests, these grassroots efforts attempt to infiltrate one of the two parties and change the party. The two party political system is not (and likely can not) representing the diversity of issues and political goals in the electorate. That's why the country is so divided; grassroots movements are locked into a two party political system that cannot adequately represent grassroots interests.
Both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are becoming coalitions of grassroots political groups. And neither party can adequately represent all the disparate interests within their coalition.
The One Accord Party.
How about that?!! Everybody in this party can work for the expressed good of the United States and its whole betterment. No panderers; bull patty 'artists,' undisciplined policy "foot draggers." or factions allowed to keep membership.
Aren't Congressional Member Organizations (commonly known as caucuses) performing the same function as a political party within a national party?
Voters don't have a say over caucuses, though. We are only allowed to vote for party candidates. Once elected those Congressmen divide up to represent specific interests.
Don't know how that follows. . . .
Nice fantasy , wont ever happen though , individual points of view and personal opinions of the electorate are too diverse, and no agreements will be reached .
same problem we have with the 2 party system we have now , and if you think people are tired of the 2 party system they are really loath to go with a 1 party system .
And from my view the requirements you mention to retain membership sounds too much like an echo chamber and lock step organization , just like both parties its meant to replace.
Mark, thank you for giving me a chance to elaborate farther. . . that goes a long way with me!
Of course I am being facetious. But, am I? The "one accord" mantra comes from something Jesus said:
"That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us." John 17:21.
and this
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broke. Ecclesiastes 4:12.
We all have "degrees" even lay people are well-informed in what does not work for the betterment of our country. A bunch of "prima donnas" seeking thrones of wealth and pomp and circumstances for their own vainglories. It is not what this country needs, nevertheless!
Time to hopefully get down to brass-tacks! Seek, Knock, Ask for something real for ordinary Americans and get about the business of doing in our politics together so we can get out of this national 'funk' we complain about ad nauseam.
Of course, I am just 'popping off' at this point (it's a comment board). Still, it is time to reimagine politics and what it means to move forward and stop spinning our 'wheels.'
arent we all just "popping off" based on our own life experiences , situations and learning of the human condition through those and study as well as observations?, but in doing so can become very divisive.
Talking about divisiveness, consider this: The former republican party, newly minted "Big Lie Party," seeks out democratic party policy positions, plural, simply in order to take opposing stances.
McConnell: '100 percent of [Big Lie Party] focus is on stopping this new administration'
Is Mitch simply 'popping off'? Hyperbole? Well, not if we study the epilogue of his past treatment of the democrats in congress and the Obama Administration.
Moreover, an observation, as is plain as the noses on our faces, the former republican party is excising its members of conscience and 'massaging' the conscienceless mind of Donald J. Trump.
If I am wrong, inform me where.
Dont understand why your asking my opinion of McConnell , because i am neither a republican nor a democrat, i do understand it is politics and that the different parties have different agendas and usually the minority party will and can disagree and "obstruct " the majority party, it has been the norm for a long time.
welcome to a representative republic where all 50 states are represented by those they send to DC .
As for the ousting of certain members , since the article is about Cheney ( i really dont care about other states representatives ) AND she happens to be the representative of the state i reside i will limit my commentary to her
, i will caution that one must first understand Wyoming politics , ( they are different as is politics in any state ) i have lived here 30 + years and even i really dont have a handle on it myself . one reason i am an independent .
It is not going to matter what the national party does to Cheney , its going to come down to what the voters of the state itself think that will determine how they vote and what eventually happens .
As an "At large" representative of the people of the state ( meaning she is the sole representative that is representing the people of the state of Wyoming, not the people of the nation) , she managed to piss a lot of people off in the state that did vote for her.
there are other factors that have always been there , but now those factors are being reconsidered where as before they were set aside .
I wish i had a dime for every time someone of an opposing party said the other party was dead in my life time , i would be 4 times more wealthy ( thats dependent on definition of wealth) Whats happening is what happens every time a party becomes a minority , they evaluate and change and morph , but in the end they both remain.
my current view of party politics is like the old Geo Carlin bit on sin and religion , one sides pushing for pain while the other is pulling for pleasure.
more plainly put , party politics are nothing but a bunch of fuckers and jerk offs.....
Your @9.2.16 ended with a remark about 'becoming very divisive,' yes?
I just pointed out to you real division lies in those representatives and senators who are 100% obstructionists: Mitchell McConnell spells out the 'red state' position—including Wyoming's position.
You have the liberty to comment on political state of play as an independent. Of course, you are compelled to do so. Because your congressional house member and senators are (former) republican party officials. There are no independent elected Wyomingite members of Congress, is there?
The Wyoming (former) Republican Party censured Representative Liz Cheney, a conservative's conservative, back in February 2021 over her impeachment vote regarding Donald J. Trump. There is Wyoming politics and it's support for the Big Lie Party moniker.
That is what Wyoming state affiliates have done to Liz Cheney. And soon Congress will 'mirror' with its own similar 'sentiment.'
As to party death, I am well aware that the Big Lie Party has made its debut and it is arrives at the expiring of the Republican Party. True conservatives are bailing out of the Big Lie Party. And it seems, the members leaving are the ones willing to have a conscience.
Those members of the (former) Republican Party allowed to stay in place are conscienceless. Do you agree?
CB i see the divisivness coming from both sides not just one .
Reason Cheney got censured is she spoke her own beliefs not the voice or the people she was elected to have a voice for , any politician is free to do so but also will have to pay the consequences of doing so. That usually means they dont get re elected and the voters have no confidence in them.
I agree she IS a Neo conservative ( not to my liking over all), but i also view her as a carpet bagger with very little connection to the state , as well as a recipient of political nepotism because of who her father is .
as for the last question , i again see it from both sides and none are innocent . but i will disagree on principle and simply say i understand how its happening .
the national party can remove her from leadership positions , but ultimately it will be the voters of the state of wyoming to decide if she has a job as member of congress. and thats not exactly a sure bet that she keeps her job.
She spoke the truth. If the people who elected her decided the Earth is flat, she shouldn't just go along. She was elected to be a leader, not a mouthpiece.
Well said.
And, I wish to indulge this occasion of agreement between us to be even clearer. Wyoming (GOP) is representing "the Big Lie" and the citizens of the state are allowing an evil thing to occur to their sole representative in their name!
Any other time, were it not for Donald and his benefit alone, some conservatives would be crying aloud - "Liz Cheney is being treated unfairly."
Then that's on you! Joe Biden and the democrats could not be more amenable to republican ideas—without becoming part of the "Big Lie" itself. They should not do that!
This is not a both sides situation - time to call out bad actors and participants for who they are!
I have to really laugh at that because what i see happening is the more the left trys to defend her , the more people start thinking they should not have elected her
Joe Bidens a fuck head, and thats being polite for me , NO president EVER has any effect on any individuals day to day existence , they have no real power to make anyone do anything other than the bully pulpit. Trump didnt , Obama didnt , neither of the Bushes , or Willie jeff Clinton
Oh i will listen to what he has to say and his ideas , but it will be my self that decides if i consent/agree , co operate/help or comply./ not obstruct. chances of me agreeing with him are nil so its unlikely i will help.
So far he has not said or really done anything that will have any major impact on what i do from day to day . .
@9.2.20 you state Ms. Cheney is a neoconservative and elected to represent Wyoming as such. So now you find something funny? I am not defending Cheney, I am simply observing the truth surrounding this peculiar 'situation' she finds herself involved in.
It seems to me that you are going out of your way to give the GOP (as it is now) benefit of doubt. While suggesting that others are getting more or less what's coming to them.
Is this version of you being recognizably non-partisan?
Speaks volumes, Mark. Not a 'standard issue' non-partisan outlook.
In 9.2.20 i said i AGREE she is a neoconservative , her online biography even says she identifies as such her father is what i consider a paleo conservative , 2 entirely different types of politics.
i suddenly found something funny about her ? i found something "funny" when she first ran against mike enzi and dropped out , i still thought there was something "funny" about her when she ran again , so i chose not to vote for her , and i havent any time she has ran , and can say i will not vote for her , ever
not trying to defend her , could have fooled me , maybe she can be convinced to run in your home state so you can show your support..
Observing the truth ? well thats what i do here and i have reported what i see honestly . and so far my record of how the state of wyoming will vote since i have been a member of the site has been 100% correct.
or is it just stirring the pot to get a desired reaction?
and i said she was elected to represent the voice of the PEOPLE of Wyoming . care to refute?
Senators Barrasso and Lummis were elected to represent the STATE of Wyoming
job descriptions matter and can be found in the US Constitution. care to refute?
SINCE Cheney works for the PEOPLE, the people will get to decide if she has adequately and correctly represented their will and voice , she is the people employee, not their leader.. and if the people/ voters decide , she will be out of the position , no matter what anyone else thinks elsewhere .
Speaks volumes, Mark. Moreover, it seems she will never earn justification to your mind. Not a 'standard issue' non-partisan outlook. And if Wyomingites want a conscienceless blob to represent them does it really need head hair and a face? Of course, an active mind is superfluous!
I didnt vote for her to begin with because of nepotism , who her father was and whenever she spoke something was off to me , just like i didnt vote for W, because of who his father was . i still wont vote for her because i am not impressed with the job she HAS done in the POSITION she currently has , like i said , she is the employee, not the boss or leader , surprised her father didnt school her on that sooner .
she wont earn justification in my mind just like trump never did, and your opinion of my outlook isnt my problem its yours.
ill just continue doing my research and voting the way i want to , least i dont have to worry about voting for what passes as democrats today i hardly ever agree with them ..
I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that it must be nice to sit in some 'lap of luxury' and watch the 'theft of a nation's common spirit' ebb and evaporate, while judging both sides as 'killing democracy' even though the Big Lie Party is so far on the right extremity its features are in shadows.
Good night, Mark. Sleep. . .restfully, why don'tcha.
I did , thankyou .
Woe! Upon anybody, red states or blue states, that can look upon a lie and call it truth! A lie is nothing but a lie all the time. The Republican Party has allowed a Big Lie to infect it and fester. The Republican Party is 'killing' itself from the inside out.
. . . cut out our political conscience one member at a time. . . .
Where is Dick Cheney and why isn't he speaking out on behalf of his daughter's 'honor'' and sense of decency?
As Mr Chaney obviously does not have either of those attributes, he likely would not know how to defend his Daughter. Plus, he likely does not agree with her unwillingness to lie and kiss Trump's butt, as he, like many others has sold his soul to and supports Trump as the owner and Dictator in charge of the GOP now.
I have no doubt that Liz Chaney will have no problem defending herself. She has proved that time and again over the years.
personally i think she did a very fine job defending her position , now whether the voters of the state agree with her enough to let her keep the position of congressperson is up to the voters both in the primaries in a year or the general in november if she is the party nominee .
I agree Mark. I hope her supporters will help her hang on to her position, both in the House and in WY. I am not a Republican, but, that does not make me dislike all Republicans. Many of them are true Americans and work for their people at home and to the country as a whole.
I hope that the day is not too far off that the Republican party can once again become a party based on intelligent policies and not just one person or persona. As long as the GOP stays divided they will surely fail. And the same for the Democrats.
As it has been said, "Together we stand. Divided we fall" And I hope that our country is not destroyed from within, which is what our enemies are working towards.
Interesting. This is Mr. Cheney's daughter in politics after-all. And where is Mrs. Cheney's voice in all this? Upcoming?
Staying silent, as usual.
Ditto.
One more thing. The republicans pushing the Big Lie as policy are striving against their fellows and "true Americans." These Big Lie Trumpers are deliberately and with malice pushing for a "true-blue" Trump party. Speak up-get censured-get out.
My actual feet on the ground view here in the state? I have been pretty up front about what i have been seeing and hearing , about the only real supporters she has left are the oil companies that donated and the old guard politicians that have retired and dont have to run anymore in the state , the ones i hear are pretty vocal about never trusting or voting for her again. and she is viewed as an outsider, a non native wyomingite , that seems to happen here a lot as well someone from another state establishing residency and running for political office . on the national level they usually get shown the door , on the state level they might get given a chance to see how they do, Cheney side stepped that because of who her father is .
she won her last election (20 ) taking about 67% of the statewide vote the dem candidate by comparison got in the high 20 percentile and the rest went 3rd parties .
Like i tried to tell CB , one has to first understand wyoming politics and why the people here vote the way they do.
One of the reasons wyoming stays red is because of the way the party does treat the state reps , leadership , commitees of importance and the like . i call it what it is , its a pay off for loyalty to the party and the people like the fact that such a small state population wise can get those leadership and committee roles and have a say in the legislature . and a lot think it would not be that way if they voted democrat and cant say i blame them because of how i hear some democrats both in and out of state talk . to them its a position of having some value verses having no value because of a small population.
anyone else ever see that wyoming voters have a habit of self term limiting their reps? HoR is usually 3-4 terms , senate is about the same if someone wants to run for more they can , but the likelihood they win is slim i doubt you will see what is considered a career politician from here. at least not in years of service like any number of democrats .
i dont see Cheney wining the next run, too many pissed off people , and the use of the house seat to jump to the senate which happens here a lot wont be on the table for her to use .
at least they havent started burning her in effigy .........yet.
A the saying goes, "Never say never".....
My impression of Lynne Cheney was she was always a throw back political wife , never said much about politics but had her "pet" things she supported outside politics , she of course supported her husbands career.
My bet is she is doing something nobody has thought about now that she is out of the political public eye, and has been for some time, enjoying a very well earned and deserved retirement and enjoying the grandkids .
I havent said never yet
but i have a saying i like better
those that stir the chamber pot should be made to lick the spoon.
Mark, what are Donald Trump's bonafides recognized in Wyoming?
If Wyomingites "self term limit" its congressional members how does the state build national representative leadership seniority?
Asking the wrong person because i never voted for him , i dismissed him as a candidate for my vote from the git go.
as far as he is concerned to me i dont give a flying rats ass fuck about him , BUT if i ever do figure out why so many voted for him here , ill let you know.
as for the term limit thing? already answered how it happens when i responded to raven , its a loyalty payback , the reps get seniority by consistantly voting republican , its a kick back for party loyalty, vote repub and the reps you send get committees and leadership roles , something that many in the state think would not happen if they voted democrat, based on population.
and its not just congressional members sent to DC , the governor can run as often as they like , but wont win more than 2 terms , people wont vote for a 3rd term . some counties do the same thing its left to them to decide for the state legislature.
The people of Wyoming voted and passed term limits for congressional reps in DC and the state governor position as well as the legislature .
The wyoming supreme court threw the law out as unconstitutional according to the state constitution , so rather than recraft any law people just agree to the term limits that were set and if a politician wishes to challenge by running for more terms , they can , but the people didnt like the law getting thrown out so they wont vote for a term over whats agreed on .
the first politician to consider running for more terms was gov jim gerhinger (D) right after the court struck down the voter approved law .He announced he was forming an exploratory committe to see the support for another term , well didnt take him long to announce that because of lack of support , he would not run , thus opening the campaign up for someone else in his party to run( they lost too)..
When a spotlight is shined where you don't want to see, you shut it off.