The Heir Apparent

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 months ago  •  144 comments

The Heir Apparent
Buttigieg: Families who buy electric vehicles "never have to worry about gas prices again"

Recently Joe Biden announced that he intended to run for a second term. Although that is every president's perogative, the reality of modern politics requires that the powers that be in the democratic party will do just about anything to prevent that. That goes for his vp as well. Either one of them will be soundly defeated by any candidate that the GOP nominates in 2024. The reasons are obvious. Within 10 months of being elected Joe Biden and those pulling his strings have plunged the country into chaos and turmoil. The little he promised in his anti-Trump campaign was clearly a big lie. He never intended to unite us, nor was he a moderate. He immediately undid the good things Trump did and then instituted a deeply radical program that has many who voted for him tormented by voter's remorse. Democrats will find a way, as they usually do, no matter how devious the plan, it won't be Biden in 2024.

So where do they go?

Enter the little man who can talk so much while saying so little.

He's the Secretary of Transportation, and former mayor of South Bend, Indiana from 2012 to 2020. He holds far more interviews than Biden or Harris combined and he has no problem speaking. The words flow from his mouth, totally devoid of truth or reason and it sounds so good. Where did he learn to gaslight so effectively?   You may have already guessed: He is a graduate of Harvard College and Oxford University, attending the latter on a Rhodes Scholarship.

Our very own Pete Buttigieg!

Last week a rumor floated out of God knows where, that he very well may be the candidate the democratic party can unite behind in 2024. Nobody at the White House shot down that rumor. Isn't that interesting!   All that's missing now is for progressives to sit down in secrecy and work out a plan. They always manage.



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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 months ago

It's not a question of "if," only when they put the scheme into action.

As someone famous once said:

"go to NT and just check out certain posters' seeds that aren't getting a lot of traction lately!"

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 months ago
"go to NT and just check out certain posters' seeds that aren't getting a lot of traction lately!"

gee, now that you mention it. let's see... yourself, xx,... who else? maybe the cancel culture has invaded NT.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1    2 months ago

You should remember the old lawyer's adage:

"You can win, but lose while you're winning."

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.1    2 months ago

that lawyer was obviously an idiot, by not knowing the difference between your and you're.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    2 months ago

Confirming who it was that pointed out that "although" had a t behind it.

As I've always said...this place is such an easy read.

You should have waited an hour.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
1.1.4  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  devangelical @1.1.2    2 months ago
that lawyer was obviously an idiot, by not knowing the difference between your and you're.

Yeah I'll bet he/she doesn't even capitalize the first letter in a sentence either.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.5  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.3    2 months ago

finding spelling errors in fascist dreck requires nothing more than successful completion of middle school. I guess that qualifies it as another vast left wing conspiracy, from the deep state grammar department... funny how you edited your original quote to correct the error. should I go back and capitalize all the first words in my replies?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.5    2 months ago

That was never taught to capitalize!

And you do know who coined that phrase?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.7  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.6    2 months ago
And you do know who coined that phrase?

somebody that was obviously misquoted here.

16 …lose while your'e your winning."
17 …lose while you're your'e winning."
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.7    2 months ago

No, that's not a phrase.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.9  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.8    2 months ago

... you're right, it's more like documented chronological idiocy on NT.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.9    2 months ago

You mean I'm right!  The phrase you used was another creation of Hillary Clinton's.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.11  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.1.10    2 months ago

what, the original quote you couldn't spell correctly until the 3rd try?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @1.1.11    2 months ago

The phrase was the one you entered: the vast right wing conspiracy, which you changed to left wing conspiracy.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2  author  Vic Eldred    2 months ago

The same old gang will meet again, but this time it won't be at Hollywood Park

FFXOONCVgAATvzr?format=jpg&name=small

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1  Kathleen  replied to  Vic Eldred @2    2 months ago

I always liked Carol, she was just a down to earth person.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kathleen @2.1    2 months ago

Lol, that TV show she had was probably the most innocent kind of humor EVER!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Kathleen  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.1    2 months ago

The whole family could watch it, nowadays......

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Kathleen @2.1.2    2 months ago

For sure!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    2 months ago
"go to NT and just check out certain posters' seeds that aren't getting a lot of traction lately!"

i dont see an article about a Pete Buttigieg conspiracy helping out that situation

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 months ago

A conspiracy?  That's always the progressive word used to stifle thought, isn't it?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    2 months ago

"thought" ? lol.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    2 months ago

You know John, an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.2    2 months ago
Last week a rumor floated out of God knows where, that he very well may be the candidate the democratic party can unite behind in 2024. Nobody at the White House shot down that rumor. Isn't that interesting!   All that's missing now is for progressives to sit down in secrecy and work out a plan.

Your own words describe a "conspiracy". Don't you read your own words ? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.3    2 months ago

It is a legitimate premise.

Do you really think the democrats are going to stand by while Joe Biden runs for a second term, which will equal certain defeat?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
3.1.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.3    2 months ago
Your own words describe a "conspiracy". Don't you read your own words ? 

As he said, "Last week a rumor floated out of God knows where". It comes from the same place most conservatives get their rumors and conspiracy theories, straight out of their asses.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1.5    2 months ago

You really haven't heard the rumors?

Let me help:









 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.7  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.4    2 months ago

Biden hasnt even completed one year in office yet. It is wildly premature to talk about his chances to win in 2024. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    2 months ago
Biden hasnt even completed one year in office yet.

Isn't that amazing! And just about everyone wants him gone!


It is wildly premature to talk about his chances to win in 2024. 

I forgot to add that 3 years is a long time and a lot can happen, but on the other hand, things aren't going to get better as Biden is committed to a progressive course.

How long do you think inflation with be with us?

The country is full of illegal migrants & refugees and that isn't going to stop under Biden.

I don't know when the morale of local police departments will be restored.

We went from energy self-sufficiency to an oil crisis.

And only bad things can happen at this point, so I don't see anything that will change between now and 2024. Even a JFK might not be able to win the WH for democrats at this point.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.8    2 months ago

Just about all you do is regurgitate right wing anti-Biden talking points. It is the tragedy of media at this time that they play along with the theme. 

=

www.msn.com   /en-us/news/politics/maddow-blog-the-inflation-question-that-republicans-can-t-and-won-t-answer/ar-AARfXCd

The inflation question that Republicans can't (and won't) answer

3-4 minutes


A   couple of weeks ago, Sen. Rick Scott accidentally told The Wall Street Journal what he was actually thinking. Looking ahead to the 2022 midterm election cycle, the Florida Republican, who leads the National Republican Senatorial Committee, seemed eager to celebrate inflation. "This is a gold mine for us," the senator said.

The obvious problem is that elected officials aren't supposed to be happy about economic conditions that hurt the public. Scott's "gold mine" rhetoric made him sound less like someone looking out for Americans' interests and more like The Simpsons' C. Montgomery Burns.

Just as importantly, inflation remains an international economic trend fueled in part by the recovery and supply-chain issues. If Republicans are counting on inflation to be a top issue a year from now, they're likely to be disappointed.

But there's a related question hanging overhead: If Scott and other Republicans are desperate to focus on inflation, what is it, exactly, that the minority party intends to do about the issue? NBC News had   an interesting report   on this over the weekend:

[B]eyond blocking Biden's wide-ranging social safety net and climate action plan ... how the GOP would tackle a notoriously difficult economic trend is less clear. Interviews with a half-dozen Republicans showed that while the party is not yet unified around a specific plan, other proposals include boosting domestic energy production, eliminating Covid-19 restrictions and vaccine mandates and cutting shipping and trucking regulations.

The report added that much of the GOP's plan — to the extent that anyone can credibly call it a "plan" — would have "little effect or no effect in addressing the cause of increased costs or would not materially affect the economy for years."

The fact that Republicans are even confronting the question is itself notable. The party's strategy is designed to be superficial: It's rooted in the idea that Americans are upset about something; Democrats hold the reins of federal power; so voters should blame the governing majority. It doesn't matter whether it makes sense or not.

But it also doesn't matter if this is a problem Republicans even intend to address. It's an extension of the GOP's   post-policy problem : They don't want to be bothered with questions about governing solutions, they just want to benefit from public frustrations.

To ask Republican officials and candidates to come up with meaningful policy blueprints — in response to a "gold mine" issue they're grandstanding on — is to ask too much.
 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.9    2 months ago

Sorry John, as Jimmy Carter found out, you don't get rid of inflation that's at 6-7% easily. It takes years and you need to battle it with the right policy. Such policies are the opposite of passing multi - $Trillion spending bills!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.11  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.6    2 months ago

NY Post, Washington Times, and Daily Mail are RW asses.

The NYMag article is entitled:

For Pete’s Sake, Stop the Presidential Buzz About Buttigieg

Ironic...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.12  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @3.1.11    2 months ago

They (including Vic) couldnt care less about Buttigieg.  What they are doing is churning anti-Democrat flotsam and jetsam just to keep the "own the libs" juices flowing. That is all they have. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @3.1.11    2 months ago
NY Post, Washington Times, and Daily Mail are RW asses.

Oh, I see...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.12    2 months ago
They (including Vic) couldnt care less about Buttigieg.

I care as much about Buttigieg as you did about Biden.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.15  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.14    2 months ago

Biden is a far better and more fitting president than Trump. 

I would prefer that he doesnt run again just because of his age. I dont think national leaders should be in their 80's. But if it is Biden and Trump again of course every patriotic American will need to vote for Biden. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.15    2 months ago
Biden is a far better and more fitting president than Trump. 

Nobody is buying that anymore. Biden has a record now. Ten whole months worth and the country is reeling from it. 


I would prefer that he doesnt run again just because of his age. I dont think national leaders should be in their 80's. But if it is Biden and Trump again of course every patriotic American will need to vote for Biden. 

I doubt it will be that matchup, but whoever it is - the Republican is going to win. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.17  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.16    2 months ago
Nobody is buying that anymore. Biden has a record now. Ten whole months worth and the country is reeling from it. 

Right wing booshwa that is given credence by "mainstream media". Isnt that interesting? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.17    2 months ago

No John, it's not booshwa....For anybody out there working for a living it is serious stuff. You know the working class, right?  They are suffering under Biden and all the insane campus ideology he unleashed on this country.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.19  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.16    2 months ago

The country is reeling from it...

Seems to be something is missing with that. Could it be that I don't see anyone around me reeling except right wing people that still have a hardon for trump.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.20  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.19    2 months ago
Could it be that I don't see anyone around me reeling

Maybe it's time to leave the computer and go see what average people are up against. When was the last time you filled your gas tank?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.21  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.18    2 months ago
They are suffering under Biden and all the insane campus ideology he unleashed on this country.

Biden unleashed "insane campus ideology"?  You are hallucinating. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.22  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.13    2 months ago

Oh, I doubt it. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.23  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.20    2 months ago

I filled my tank several days ago and have been traveling the state.

No it is not all doom and gloom. It is mostly calm and people are going about their lives.

The only doom and gloom comes from right wing media.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.24  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.21    2 months ago
Biden unleashed "insane campus ideology"? 

Shall we start with his first day in office:

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @3.1.22    2 months ago

I'm trying. Give me more to work with.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.23    2 months ago
I filled my tank several days ago and have been traveling the state.

I'm glad to hear that you are doing well.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.27  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.26    2 months ago

A lot of people are. People out shopping, people putting up Christmas lights, things seem pretty normal to me.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.28  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.27    2 months ago
things seem pretty normal to me.

And if they seemed to be terrible to you?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.29  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.24    2 months ago

That article has nothing to do with "insane campus ideology". 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.30  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.28    2 months ago

So now I should pretend things are bad....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.31  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.29    2 months ago

There were 18. Oh, I know, you thought he was just reversing all of Trump's policies and you thought that was radical.

Let's take one, ok? 

"Launch a Whole-of-Government Initiative to Advance Racial Equity"

Tell us what that means?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.32  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.30    2 months ago
So now I should pretend things are bad....

What I'm getting at is that even if you thought things were terrible, I'm sure you would still vote for Biden.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.33  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.32    2 months ago

If the choice was him or trump, you are damn right I would.

Funny that things seem calm. We don't have the 24/7 chaos that donald liked to put out.

But go ahead and act like the sky is falling just because donald was not elected...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.34  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.33    2 months ago
If the choice was him or trump, you are damn right I would.

Thank you.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.35  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.34    2 months ago

You didn't really prove anything...

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.36  JohnRussell  replied to  Ender @3.1.33    2 months ago
But go ahead and act like the sky is falling just because donald was not elected...

You put your finger on it. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.37  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ender @3.1.35    2 months ago
You didn't really prove anything...

I didn't have to. You see, ideologues will vote by party no matter what hardships such policies may cause.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.38  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.25    2 months ago
I'm trying. Give me more to work with.

Wait what? Didn't you JUST say that you already 'see'? 

Now you're pretending that you want more? 

More of WHAT Vic? 

Oh and BTW, WHY are you whining about the how much traction your seeds get Vic? Kind of off topic and META, don't you think? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.39  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.36    2 months ago

Nobody is likely to vote like that again. Even those immature first time voters are beginning to see the cost of voting based on personalities.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.40  Ender  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.36    2 months ago

It is funny, they said the same things for the previous four years.

That everything was fine, that donald did not harm people's lives, that people were living just fine. donald did not harm them personally...

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the gloom and doom can't come fast enough and everything they said back them doesn't matter now...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.41  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @3.1.38    2 months ago
Oh and BTW, WHY are you whining about the how much traction your seeds get Vic? Kind of off topic and META, don't you think? 

You are a little confused. Are you talking about my opening comment?  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.42  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.37    2 months ago
I didn't have to. You see, ideologues will vote by party no matter what hardships such policies may cause.

You presume Ender would vote by party no matter what?    On what grounds?

I would expect you, Vic, to do so but that is based on your posts which suggest you vote for R candidates no matter what.   Do we have such evidence for Ender (who strikes me as a political independent)?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.43  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.39    2 months ago
... the cost of voting based on personalities

That understates and trivializes the problem.   Trump's issues are not merely personality.   George H.W. Bush had a personality issue.   Trump's issues are pathological lying, extreme narcissism and gratuitous personal attacks.   Trump manipulates anyone he can for his own personal gain through endless lies.  This level of dishonest narcissism should not hold the power of the presidency.

This is not 'the nation likes Biden more than Trump';  it is not a high school popularity contest.   It is about having an individual who is incapable of acting presidential and who uses the power entrusted to him by the people for his own benefit.

Key example of this, by the way, is Trump's historically absurd behavior after losing the election.   Prior to that it was Trump talking down the pandemic (lying about the severity, encouraging people to not take precautions) to try to keep the stock market calm by words alone since he (rightly so) feared a hiccup in the market and/or economy would hurt his reelection chances.

The GOP should pick someone who can act presidential, work for the good of the nation over himself, and keep the lying at least at the level of the normal politician.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
3.1.44  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.41    2 months ago
You are a little confused.

Nope, not even a little. 

Are you talking about my opening comment?  

It's that obvious? 

BTW, you're leaving a LOT of questions unanswered. Why? 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
3.1.45  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.15    2 months ago
But if it is Biden and Trump again of course every patriotic American will need to vote for Biden. 

I think what you meant to say here is that every patriotic American will need to respect every other American's decision.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
3.1.46  Jasper2529  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.7    2 months ago
Biden hasnt even completed one year in office yet. It is wildly premature to talk about his chances to win in 2024. 

Cry me a river. Even before the previous administration's staff had a chance to find where the WH bathrooms were, Democrats and their complicit media had the wheels in motion for a bogus "impeachment" paid for by Hillary Clinton and Comrades. Imagine that!

BTW - The former mayor of South Bend didn't even know how to execute a plan to fix a few potholes in his city.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
3.1.47  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @3.1.23    2 months ago
I filled my tank several days ago and have been traveling the state. No it is not all doom and gloom. It is mostly calm and people are going about their lives.

Kinda interesting how it generally works that way, don't you think?  The same thing was true 3 years ago.  And 5 years before that.  

The only doom and gloom comes from right wing media.

The doom and gloom comes from whatever wing doesn't hold power at the time.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.48  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @3.1.47    2 months ago

You would think I would get use to it, but no.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
3.1.49  Jack_TX  replied to  Ender @3.1.48    2 months ago
You would think I would get use to it, but no.

I know, right?

It seems like it gets worse all the time.  Maybe it does, or maybe I'm just older and it seems that way.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.50  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.42    2 months ago
You presume Ender would vote by party no matter what?   

I do.


On what grounds?

Ideology.


I would expect you, Vic, to do so but that is based on your posts which suggest you vote for R candidates no matter what.  

Correct. One thing I would never be is a democrat. 


Do we have such evidence for Ender (who strikes me as a political independent)?

Did we have evidence that Bill de Blasio would favor criminals over the Police or that Bee's would like Honey?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.51  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.43    2 months ago
That understates and trivializes the problem.   Trump's issues are not merely personality.   George H.W. Bush had a personality issue.   Trump's issues are pathological lying, extreme narcissism and gratuitous personal attacks.   Trump manipulates anyone he can for his own personal gain through endless lies.  This level of dishonest narcissism should not hold the power of the presidency.

We've had that conversation numerous times. I consider anyone who votes for anything other that what benefits America to be frivolous.


This is not 'the nation likes Biden more than Trump';  it is not a high school popularity contest.   It is about having an individual who is incapable of acting presidential and who uses the power entrusted to him by the people for his own benefit.

In 2020 Joe Biden had no real supporters, just a lot of people who accepted your argument. Many of them hate themselves for it.


Key example of this, by the way, is Trump's historically absurd behavior after losing the election. 

We've been over that many times as well. Democrats did the most horrific things to him. What did you expect?


The GOP should pick someone who can act presidential, 

No matter who they nominate will win!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.52  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.50    2 months ago
Ideology

You have that much of an understanding of Ender's political and ideological views to make such a confident claim??

Did we have evidence that Bill de Blasio would favor criminals over the Police or that Bee's would like Honey?

Deflection.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.53  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.51    2 months ago
I consider anyone who votes for anything other that what benefits America to be frivolous.

Then you apparently think that Trump benefits the USA better than any other potential candidate in the GOP.

Democrats did the most horrific things to him. What did you expect?

Are you serious?   You excuse Trump's attempt to steal an election, coerce officials, suborn unconstitutional acts, lie, discredit our electoral system, work his supporters into a frenzy, trigger 61+ lawsuits because the Ds played politics with impeachment, etc.?    You do not recognize the actions of a vindictive narcissist who is willing to lie and manipulate to benefit himself at the expense of the nation?

No, Vic, that is not what I expect of a sitting PotUS.    It is childish, irrational, narcissistic, irresponsible and unpatriotic.   It is sickening to witness these attempts to make excuses for Trump's post-election-loss behavior. 

No matter who they nominate will win!

Depends upon who is running on the D side and what happens in the nation and the world over the next few years.   Again, you are making blind declarations that you cannot possibly know.   So many missing facts yet you issue a claim of certainty that the Ds will lose the next presidential election in 3 years.   That is irrational, Vic.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.54  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.51    2 months ago
 Democrats did the most horrific things to him. What did you expect?

Completely , utterly, totally, ridiculous. 

Your major argument on behalf of this is the so called "Russia hoax", where allegedly the FBI unwarrantedly investigated the Trump campaign for ties to Russia. 

The 2020 Senate Intelligence Committee Report completely destroys and debunks this argument. The FBI investigated the Trump campaign not because of the Steele Dossier, but because they learned of numerous troublesome connections between Trump people and Russians. The David Frum article which you objected to yesterday laid this out in precise detail. 

Trumpsters present the inaccuracies of the Steele Dossier as if they were the be all end all of the case for investigating the Trump campaign and that is completely untrue. 

No one has ever done anything to Trump that he didnt deserve.  And the Steele Dossier did not effect the 2016 election at all. Very few people in the American public even heard of the Steele Dossier until after Trump had been elected. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.55  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.54    2 months ago
Very few people in the American public even heard of the Steele Dossier until after Trump had been elected. 

Bull. Informed people knew about it before the election.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
3.1.56  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.54    2 months ago
The 2020 Senate Intelligence Committee Report completely destroys and debunks this argument.

Could you imagine how Republicans would have reacted if the details found in the Senate investigation were flipped to Hillary and her campaign? They would be demanding she be arrested. Oh wait, they already do that even though every Republican investigation into her turned up bupkis.

Here is the Senate findings flipped, only the names were changed.

The Clinton campaign’s interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a “grave” counterintelligence threat, a Senate panel concluded Tuesday as it detailed how associates of Hillary Clinton had regular contact with Russians and expected to benefit from the Kremlin’s help.

The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Clinton’s behalf. It says the Clinton campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and that other Clinton associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid, particularly by maximizing the impact of the disclosure of Republican emails hacked by Russian intelligence officers.

The findings, including unflinching characterizations of furtive interactions between Clinton associates and Russian operatives, echo to a large degree those of  special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation  and appear to repudiate the Democratic candidates claims that the FBI had no basis to investigate whether her campaign was conspiring with Russia.

“Taken as a whole, Podesta’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report says.

Clearly Republicans would have flipped their lids if that's what a Republican Senate investigation had found about Clinton and none of them would have been calling the investigation or the Russian ties a "hoax".

Here are the actual facts:

The Trump campaign’s interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a “grave” counterintelligence threat , a Senate panel concluded Tuesday as it detailed how associates of Donald Trump had regular contact with Russians and expected to benefit from the Kremlin’s help.

The nearly 1,000-page report, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led Senate intelligence committee on the Russia investigation, details how Russia launched an aggressive effort to interfere in the election on Trump’s behalf . It says the Trump campaign chairman had regular contact with a Russian intelligence officer and that other Trump associates were eager to exploit the Kremlin’s aid , particularly by maximizing the impact of the disclosure of Democratic emails hacked by Russian intelligence officers.

The findings, including unflinching characterizations of furtive interactions between Trump associates and Russian operatives, echo to a large degree those of  special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation and appear to repudiate the Republican president’s claims that the FBI had no basis to investigate whether his campaign was conspiring with Russia.

“Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report says.

It's truly insane that many of them keep calling it all "a hoax".

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.1.57  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.1.56    2 months ago

There is a lot of ignorance associated with this topic, most of it generated by Trump and his sons. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.58  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1    2 months ago

It is indeed! 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4  TᵢG    2 months ago
All that's missing now is for progressives to sit down in secrecy and work out a plan. They always manage.

Is this not normal workings of a political party?   In fact, this is normal workings of any large group where politics is involved.  

Also, this is smart.   I am confident that Biden will not run for reelection.   But he must announce that he will to mitigate lame-duck status.   So the D party is correct to try to find someone to take the reins.    The GOP should do the same and find someone other than Trump.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @4    2 months ago

So it's not a conspiracy theory?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    2 months ago

By 'it' I assume you mean the process of looking for the next leader.     If so, no, looking for the next leader in a political party is a normal process that has taken place since our founding.

A conspiracy theory, in contrast, is an imagined unusual reality sans supporting facts such as thinking China intentionally released the virus onto the planet in the hope that the net effect would cause Trump to lose the election.   Now that is conspiracy theory.    Rallying forces behind the next leader(s) is entirely normal.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.1    2 months ago
By 'it' I assume you mean the process of looking for the next leader.     If so, no, looking for the next leader in a political party is a normal process that has taken place since our founding.

Right. So we agree that Biden didn't want to look like a "lame duck" and the democrats know that another Biden run in 2024 is a lost cause?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.2    2 months ago

I do indeed believe that Biden announced his reelection as a political move and that this does not mean he really will run.   I do not think Biden will want to run and I do not think the D party will want him to run (at least not as their first choice).  

I do not think that another Biden run is impossible.   Too many things can happen over next two years so deeming this a 'lost cause' is quite premature.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.3    2 months ago

I agree with everything (obviously, since it was my premise), except for that last thought. The problem is that the hole Biden dug in only 10 months is far to deep to get out of in 3 more years. Beyond that are all the other negative things that can happen as a result of these horrible policies.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    2 months ago

That is a little naive, Vic.   The 'hole' Biden dug quickly fades because the electorate has a short memory.   Too many possibilities exist over the new few years (good and bad).   Those who think they know the future well enough to say Biden running is a 'lost cause' give themselves far too much credit.

Note:  I do not want Biden (or Harris) to run in 2024.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @4.1.5    2 months ago
The 'hole' Biden dug quickly fades because the electorate has a short memory.

The memory only fades as things get better. I don't see that happening and it won't happen for the congress.


 Too many possibilities exist over the new few years (good and bad).   Those who think they know the future well enough to say Biden running is a 'lost cause' give themselves far too much credit.

If Biden gets the nomination in 2024 and wins the presidential election, you can hang it in my face. That's one gamble I'm very willing to take.


Note:  I do not want Biden (or Harris) to run in 2024.

Note: Neither does the democratic party

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
4.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.6    2 months ago
The memory only fades as things get better. I don't see that happening and it won't happen for the congress.

No, Vic, memory fades over time regardless of nature.   The bad and the good lessen as sharp memories fade.

If Biden gets the nomination in 2024 and wins the presidential election, you can hang it in my face.

Not the point.   The point is that nobody can predict the future that far in advance in the complex arena of USA politics.

Note: Neither does the democratic party

Possibly true.   If so, I applaud that.   The D party should try to find the best candidate and by 'best' I mean best for the nation and not just best for their own short-term political objectives.   Too bad the GOP is not doing likewise.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 months ago
He is a graduate of Harvard College and Oxford University, attending the latter on a Rhodes Scholarship.

Vic, please tell me that you are not saying that there is something wrong with a good education. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1  devangelical  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5    2 months ago

There is nothing wrong with a good education. It's something we should all want.

There is however the other side to it, which William F Buckley once referred to when he once famously said that he never feared anyone who was uneducated. It seems that some people learn that education enables them to get away with things and lie with impunity.

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
5.2.1  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2    2 months ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2    2 months ago

Vic, I would have to disagree with Buckley on this, and I usually find him very intelligent. Liars come in all classes and levels of education. It is not something that is relegated to the well educated. 

That being said, I don't find Buttigieg anymore of a liar than most politicians. An honest politician is hard to find, but some are bigger liars than most, and he is pretty average in that respect.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.2    2 months ago

I'll keep that in mind so as not to condemn an entire group. A group that should set the example for the rest of society.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
5.2.4  Nowhere Man  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.2    2 months ago
Vic, I would have to disagree with Buckley on this, and I usually find him very intelligent. Liars come in all classes and levels of education. It is not something that is relegated to the well educated. 

One of the points Buckley made about education is also about methodology, HOW someone is educated is as important to intelligence as what he/she is educated with...

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2    2 months ago
There is nothing wrong with a good education. It's something we should all want.

Yet you diss those that have Ivy league educations ad nauseam. Why is that Vic? 

There is however the other side to it, which William F Buckley once referred to when he once famously said that he never feared anyone who was uneducated.

While Buckley may not have 'feared' the 'uneducated', he sure as fuck disrespected them. Buckley encouraged the disenfranchisement of any voter who lacked a HS education. 

BTFW, who DOES fear the uneducated and what 'side' are they on Vic? 

It seems that some people learn that education enables them to get away with things and lie with impunity.

It seems that some people learn that letting others get away with things and lie with impuniy is the only way to perpetuate their ideology. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.2.5    2 months ago
Yet you diss those that have Ivy league educations ad nauseam. Why is that Vic? 

That's because I remember what such an education used to mean.

BTFW, who DOES fear the uneducated and what 'side' are they on Vic? 

I suppose anyone who finds themselves driving through one of those wonderful Chicago neighborhoods.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.7  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.6    2 months ago
That's because I remember what such an education used to mean.

What did it 'used to mean' Vic? 

I suppose anyone who finds themselves driving through one of those wonderful Chicago neighborhoods.

Thanks Vic. I knew when you said:

I'll keep that in mind so as not to condemn an entire group.

It was bullshit. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.2.7    2 months ago
What did it 'used to mean' Vic? 

You do know that "Ivy League" refers to 8 schools. Of all institutions of higher learning, it was those 8 elite schools that were considered to be the most outstanding and the most sought-after in terms of acceptance and graduation. Graduates could speak at length on almost any subject. Today they don't quite rise to their previous lofty levels.


Thanks Vic. I knew when you said:

I'll keep that in mind so as not to condemn an entire group.

It was bullshit. 


That is a long way to go to make a racist comment. Not all Blacks live in Chicago neighborhoods, nor are all that live there Black.

 

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
5.2.9  1stwarrior  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.8    2 months ago

That's interesting Vic.  How many of those 8 were founded to support Native American education?

Do some research - you'll be surprised.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  1stwarrior @5.2.9    2 months ago

Do you mean Dartmouth ?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.11  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.8    2 months ago
You do know that "Ivy League" refers to 8 schools.

One of which is Harvard Vic. 

BTFW, Buckley went to Yale, as did his son. Based on your standard, that makes them suspect. 

Graduates could speak at length on almost any subject. Today they don't quite rise to their previous lofty levels.

Perhaps that has something to do with legacy admissions. After all, W couldn't have gotten into Yale unless daddy and granddaddy had gone there. 

But of course, W's inability at times to communicate cogently is a TERRIBLE example of the overall quality of the intellect of the Ivy League schools, but hey, you set the standards. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.12  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.2.11    2 months ago
BTFW, Buckley went to Yale

BTFW, he wrote a book on it called "God and Man at Yale." You see, when he got there he knew more than most of his professors, which were left-leaning even back then.

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
5.2.13  1stwarrior  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.10    2 months ago

And Harvard.  Yale also aggressively recruited in the 1700's.

Elias Boudinot and Isaac Harris, both Cherokee's, went to Foreign Mission School in Connecticut, graduated and returned to Georgia where they were the first editor/reporter for the Cherokee Phoenix newspaper.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  1stwarrior @5.2.13    2 months ago

That is great to hear. Can we add that to their once vaunted reputations?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.12    2 months ago

Vic,

I read that book, and it had very little to do with liberalism and more his own lack of faith in the Catholic religion he grew up in, and how campus life was geared towards being Protestant. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @5.2.15    2 months ago
I read that book

So have I.


and it had very little to do with liberalism and more his own lack of faith in the Catholic religion he grew up in,

Correct. I was making a seperate observation on the liberals.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.17  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.8    2 months ago
That is a long way to go to make a racist comment. Not all Blacks live in Chicago neighborhoods, nor are all that live there Black.

A neighborhood is and 'entire group' and Chicago is ALSO an 'entire group' Vic.

Where did I say ANYTHING about 'Blacks' Vic?

In reference to Chicago neighborhoods, it's obvious that YOU are the one with 'blacks' on your mind.

Pretty hypocritical since you and yours are the ones who claim it's liberals saying that everything is about race. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.18  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.2.17    2 months ago
Where did I say ANYTHING about 'Blacks' Vic?

It was very well crafted yet obvious. That's the problem with such comments. It's impossible, try as one may, to make them obvious to the target audience while gliding over others.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.19  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.12    2 months ago
BTFW, he wrote a book on it called "God and Man at Yale." You see, when he got there he knew more than most of his professors, which were left-leaning even back then.

Will you never tire of posting utter bullshit Vic? 

Buckley attended Yale for 5 YEARS. One would think that if he actually felt that 'when he got there he knew more than most of his professors', he would have sought out a more intellectually challenging university. I for one don't view Buckley as the type to take the easy road so I don't believe a word of your bullshit. 

It's OBVIOUS that you know NOTHING about the topic of "God and Man at Yale". Buckley wrote it in 1951, after TEACHING at Yale for a year AFTER he graduated. It was a whine about Yale's 'secular' education. The same old bullshit that you and yours are still whining about now. 

 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.20  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.16    2 months ago
Correct. I was making a seperate observation on the liberals.

No Vic. As is your practice, you were twisting facts in an attempt to bolster your ideology. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.2.21  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @5.2.19    2 months ago
Will you never tire of posting utter bullshit Vic? 

I don't know where I find the energy!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.22  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.18    2 months ago
It was very well crafted yet obvious.

Only to those whose perspective comes from wallowing in the muck.

That's the problem with such comments. It's impossible, try as one may, to make them obvious to the target audience while gliding over others.

The fact that you view my comments with an unwarranted bias is no revelation Vic. Nor is the desperation to deflect in your comment. 

 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
5.2.23  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.2.21    2 months ago
[removed]
 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
6  Jack_TX    2 months ago
Families who buy electric vehicles "never have to worry about gas prices again

Riiiight.  Because most families that are worried about gas prices have $40k-$60k to go drop on a new car.

I guess if they get hungry we'll just let them eat cake.

They are soooooooo out of touch.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jack_TX @6    2 months ago

They want to punish if necessary to get to green energy

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
6.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    2 months ago
They want to punish if necessary to get to green energy

I'm all about green energy.  I think it's great.

But I can afford it.  I can afford to put solar panels on my house (which we're doing).  I can also afford a new F150 Lightning (which I won't buy until they're available used).  Because of that, gas prices don't bother me all that much.

But I'm not trying to raise a family on $65k/yr or less, like fully HALF of the rest of America is.  WTF are those people supposed to do, exactly?

"Oh...you can't afford a $1/gal increase in gasoline?....no worries.... go buy a $45k electric car....which you'll need to finance at $800/mo."

That, my friend, is the kind of hard-core liberal math that makes AOC want to have your babies.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
6.1.2  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    2 months ago
They want to punish if necessary to get to green energy

Anthropogenic climate change is already punishing humans all across the planet and it's only going to get worse if we stick our heads in the sand. Trying to motivate people to switch to green technology is just common sense.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jack_TX @6.1.1    2 months ago
But I'm not trying to raise a family on $65k/yr or less, like fully HALF of the rest of America is.  WTF are those people supposed to do, exactly?

That's the point.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @6.1.2    2 months ago

So harsh measures are required.

That seems to be the reasoning behind the Biden energy policy.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
6.1.5  Nowhere Man  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.4    2 months ago
So harsh measures are required.

I guess taking away options is considered progressive nowadays....

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
6.1.6  Ronin2  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @6.1.2    2 months ago

Don't worry, I am sure we will fight a war with China or Russia over resources long before that happens.

If not, just look at it as system reboot by the planet. Covid being the first part of the reboot. It hasn't put a dent in the world population yet; but it is getting closer with each variation that comes out. Thankfully every country has dumbass politicians that will make sure each variation is spread world wide.

Sooner or later the number of humans on the planet will drop to a sustainable level.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Nowhere Man @6.1.5    2 months ago

The mindset is that they know best

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
6.2  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  Jack_TX @6    2 months ago

Jack,

The fact is that the average cost of a car is over $40K already.

We're well into 2021, and last month new car prices hit their sixth record price in a row. In September, the average new car cost   $45,031   -- the first time this figure crossed over the $45,000 in history, according to the latest data from Kelley Blue Book and Cox Automotive on Tuesday. Oct 13, 2021 .

And I don't disagree that it's hard to be green and to afford being green and that has to be in the equation for any of this to work. 

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.1  Ender  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago

Imo incremental is the key.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago
We're well into 2021, and last month new car prices hit their sixth record price in a row. In September, the average new car cost   $45,031   -- the first time this figure crossed over the $45,000 in history,

This is likely a very deceptive statistic.  For example, a dress at Nordstroms or Bloomingdales might cost 300 dollars .  A dress at Target might cost 70 dollars. 

The average cost of dresses would then be 185 dollars, but very few people would be buying at the average cost. The more well off people would buy the 300 and the less well off would buy the 70. Two different markets. 

There are countless people who cannot afford a 45,000 dollar car. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
6.2.3  Dulay  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago

If we incentivize electric car sales in the US, electric cars like the Renaut manufactured in France and sold for under $9000 could start exporting here and even start to produce them here in the US. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
6.2.4  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago

 Electric may be a good Idea but as stated by a car guru on the radio this morning, having to heat the car in the winter time could reduce the range by up to 40%. He didn't mention what A/C does.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
6.2.5  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @6.2.3    2 months ago
If we incentivize electric car sales in the US, electric cars like the Renaut manufactured in France and sold for under $9000 could start exporting here and even start to produce them here in the US. 

Democrats want to incentivize buying electric---if and ONLY if they are manufactured with union labor. Just picking winners and losers while attempting to shore up the unions to insure future political donations to Democrats.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @6.2.3    2 months ago

Let me know when we can get electric cars for $ 9,000.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
6.2.7  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.6    2 months ago

Do your own monitoring Vic. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.8  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.6    2 months ago

As the electric vehicle market expands the price of entry will likely shrink.    It is good to encourage the growth of thus market.   That said, I agree that thus should not be done by raising priced on that which lower income households must buy.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.2.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.8    2 months ago

America needs to have access to all the essential ingredients, such as Cobalt, Silver etc. There needs to be easily accessible charging stations throughout the nation and yes, the electric cars need to be even cheaper than gas vehicles.

So, we are a long way from there. In the meantime we should have cheap gasoline for our current economy.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.10  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.9    2 months ago

Yes we are a long way away and that is why it makes sense to keep growing the market.

In the meantime we should have cheap gasoline for our current economy.

In balance, if oil is too inexpensive then it (as it has done in the past) stifles the growth of alternate, cleaner, renewable sources.   Typically, extreme positions are wrong.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
6.2.11  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.2.9    2 months ago
America needs to have access to all the essential ingredients, such as Cobalt, Silver etc.

What makes you think that we don't have that access now? 

There needs to be easily accessible charging stations throughout the nation and yes,

BBB will take care of that. 

the electric cars need to be even cheaper than gas vehicles.

Why? 

So, we are a long way from there.

Yes and the GOP wants to make it longer...

In the meantime we should have cheap gasoline for our current economy.

Gas is based on the market price Vic. OPEC has control the cost of a barrel of oil since 1960. 

The states with the lowest gas prices are NOT the states with the best economies. In fact, according to Fox Business, Mississippi has the lowest gas prices yet they're economy is rated 43rd. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
6.2.12  Jack_TX  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago
Jack, The fact is that the average cost of a car is over $40K already.

OK, but let's talk specifically about families who are worried about gas prices.  We're talking about families that are spending an extra $50 - $100/mo at the pump, and make the kind of money where that represents a behavior change.  

If they can't afford the extra $100/mo, they can't afford the payments on a $45k car, no matter what it runs on. 

For a cabinet member to make that kind of statement is awful.  Democrats, in general, are standing around scratching their heads wondering how they've lost the working-class vote.  Well....that's how.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2.12    2 months ago
If they can't afford the extra $100/mo, they can't afford the payments on a $45k car, no matter what it runs on. 

You are assuming that they are not making car payments right now.    For those who are running vehicles that are paid off (and are simply paying maintenance costs) I am with your analysis.    Those who are making payments in the EV price range have a choice for their future vehicle.

In general, going beyond this specific case, there certainly are people whose lives are affected heavily by gas prices.   The average trades-person who must travel to jobs in a large area (typically) sees an increase cost in doing business.    Everyone who relies upon goods and energy produced by oil products will eventually realize an increase in the costs of goods and services.   This, as you know of course, is a result of a society that is highly integrated with fossil fuels.

The solution will necessarily be gradual.   We need to evolve away from our oil dependence and that will take time.    There is going to be some increase in costs of direct and indirect products of fossil fuels if any move is to be made and those increases need to be moderated in consideration of those who live paycheck-to-paycheck.    Much easier said than done, but I see no better alternative.

I favor encouraging those who can afford the green technologies to consume and help grow the market.   Eventually, if this works, the green market will naturally become more affordable (and feasible) to those with less discretionary income.   

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
6.2.14  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @6.2    2 months ago

Does anyone remember this?  It isn't easy being green.  (link) -> ->

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
6.2.15  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.13    2 months ago
You are assuming that they are not making car payments right now.  

I'm definitely assuming they're not making $700 - $800 payments right now, yes.  

The solution will necessarily be gradual.   We need to evolve away from our oil dependence and that will take time. 

Exactly.  Which makes PB's comments even more out of touch.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.16  Ender  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2.15    2 months ago

The test will be how they hold up. If one can't buy a used one without having to replace batteries and the like, it will be useless.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.17  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @6.2.15    2 months ago
I'm definitely assuming they're not making $700 - $800 payments right now, yes.  

As I noted:  "Those who are making payments in the EV price range have a choice for their future vehicle."    As the EV price range lowers (enabled by a growing market), more people will be able to go electric if they choose to do so.

Exactly.  Which makes PB's comments even more out of touch.

Yes, he apparently is trying to push EVs for the poorer classes struggling with gas prices;   that makes no sense.   He should be encouraging the growth of the EV market instead of pretending he has a solution for high gas prices for those who care most about same.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.18  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @6.2.17    2 months ago

It is surprising in my poor state how many people you see driving around in expensive pick ups.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
6.2.19  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @6.2.18    2 months ago

Yes, and those who can afford (by whatever means) to drive such a vehicle would be able to move to an electric vehicle if that makes sense to them.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
7  JBB    2 months ago

Who in the gop can beat Pete? Certainly not Trump!

It doesn't matter. President Biden will be reelected...

 
 

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