DeSantis '24: Maybe Trump Was Too Honest and Sane on COVID
Not a good start.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Photo-Illustration: Intelligencer. Photo: Getty Images
Having run for governor as an almost worshipful devotee of Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis has angered his former patron by floating the possibility he might run for president without Trump's permission.
This strategy requires a way to differentiate himself on something other than personality, where Trump is considered the beau ideal among the party's rank and file (and DeSantis can only offer a pale imitation.) DeSantis has seized upon the pandemic response. Where Trump was tiptoeing around vaccine skepticism, DeSantis jumped in with both feet, banning private companies like cruise lines from requiring vaccination, appointing a vaccine skeptic to his state's highest office, and refusing to say if he's gotten his booster dose.
Trump used the last point recently to paint DeSantis as evasive and weak. "I watched a couple politicians be interviewed, and one of the questions was 'Did you get a booster?' Because they had the vaccine, and they're answering like — in other words, the answer is yes, but they don't want to say it because they're gutless," he told OAN.
DeSantis is now responding by attacking Trump as weak for urging people to engage in social distancing at the outset of the pandemic. Asked by a right-wing podcast if he had any regrets, DeSantis replied that he wishes he spoke out against the Trump administration "locking down the country" at the beginning of the pandemic. "I never thought in February, early March, it would lead to locking down the country," he said. "And I think if knowing now what I know then, if that was a threat earlier, I would have been much louder about, you know, trying to say this is not." (DeSantis often speaks in garbled prose, but the meaning of his remarks in context was perfectly clear.)
This came after DeSantis assailed conservative Supreme Court justices for upholding a vaccine mandate on health-care workers. "Roberts and Kavanaugh did not have a backbone on that decision," he complained. What the hospitals need, according to DeSantis, is unvaccinated people roaming the halls.
What's notable about DeSantis's fulminations on this topic, other than their continued pandering to anti-vaccine nuts, is his evident determination to run to Trump's right on the pandemic.
It is telling that of the many failings DeSantis could cite by Trump, he is seizing on the former president's initial willingness to do anything at all about the pandemic. Trump repeatedly denied the coronavirus posed any serious public-health risk and insisted it would go away while trying to hide the extent of the spread and treating the entire pandemic as a deep-state plot to undermine his reelection. Looking at this record, DeSantis has decided Trump's weak point is the brief moments of sanity and candor when he acknowledged the virus was real.
DeSantis may or may not actually be more delusional on COVID than Donald Trump. But it is a revealing commentary on the state of their party that he sees his best chance to supplant Trump as positioning himself as even crazier.
(sigh)
I'll see your sigh, and raise you an eyeroll. lol
I don't think he would win at a national level.
Then again, I thought people were smarter than to elect a trump...
If there's one thing we have clearly seen over the past several years, it's that many people are quite dumb and getting dumber.
Yeah...they elected Brandon
Oh. Brother.
The sophistication of political analysis nowadays leaves much to be desired.
Greg needs to change his name to broken record.
Who is Brandon?
He is the most likely candidate for the GOP at the moment.
I can overlook his past support for Trump but this stance on the pandemic is irresponsible.
It's more than irresponsible, he is actually taking actions to prevent people from staying safe. He is taking mask and vaccine decisions away from private businesses, schools, etc. and forcing them to not protect their employees, students, etc.
Doubling down on the stupid.
Meanwhile, our newly inaugurated governor has repealed mask mandates in public schools, a la DeSantis. Earlier this week, we were contacted by the School Board informing us that we may have to return to virtual learning because so many staff members are sick with Covid, there is a shortage of bus drivers and cafeteria workers, and substitute teachers are rarer than hens' teeth since the pandemic started. I'm sure removing mask mandates will help /s
Isn't he the one that is now going to investigate a Liberal county.
I hope people are regretting what they voted in.
Loudon County, yes. TBH, I think investigation into sexual assault cover-ups is fine.
But after working to distance himself from Trump during the run-up to the election, he's showing us that he's a Trumpling.
I didn't know what the investigations were about. I was just thinking more partisan bullshit.
Masks aren't really all that effective anyway.
Wat do you base that claim on? They're certainly more effective than nothing.
I'm sure links will be forthcoming.
I dare you to prove that claim. Do you know more than the Mayo Clinic?
They also 'mask' one's identity so others can't easily place the stupid with the face.
Then I guess that he would not require his surgical team to wear them if he ever needs an operation.
He wishes.
Indeed. Who cares if a surgeon coughs or sneezes or talks without a mask on, right? After all, masks are useless. They're nothing more than fashionable facial wear, right? >sarc<
Might as well take the sneeze guards off of salad bars too.
No need really.....
Are boogers and snot considered "green vegetables"?
Some people eat their boogers and suck their snot down.
That...(Hack)...Got me...(Gag)
Seriously, Al?
While we're at it, let's knock it off with hand washing too.
Did you laugh or vomit?
At least the kid didn't sneeze!
Laughed, and might also have gagged a bit. I tried not to think about it too much.
You are absolutely right. So please, don't wear one and go hang out at Kroger for a couple of hours, or perhaps head up to your local elementary/Jr. High/High school and ask if you can volunteer as an aid in one of the classrooms for a day or two.
His inability to successfully troll regarding any other topic.
You know I love you more than my 3-inch Prada red patent leather peep-toe pumps that I keep just to remind me of better times, but my dude...
Jim Carey during Buster Keaton justice! Textbook stuff there. When the shot begins, you think Carey is about to get romantic, then he looks like he about to 'deny everything,' and finally he is sick as a proverbial dog! Twenty-two seconds of silent moving history played out before us. I love it!
It is so weird to me: I remember seeing kids dealing with this state 'back in the day'! I don't see it 99.99 percent anymore. Boy, I do remember my own nose running back then. . . and the taste of salt in my mouth.
True. Masks, social distancing, vaccines: none of that is effective against Covid (or any other disease)! Those are all an evil 😈 plot by the "Libs" (AKA "Socialists") to control our minds!!!
--Krishna playing 2 cards @ once. The SARCASM CARD... as well as the STUCK ON STUPID card!
Oh uh-uh. That ain't right. Both ends?! Well, now those two will have to get married. You can't get away from this kind of behavior!
"Your cloth face mask isn't protecting you against the coronavirus variant omicron, health officials say.
As common as cloth face masks have become, health experts say, they do little to prevent tiny virus particles from getting into your nose or mouth and aren't effective against the new variant.
" Cloth masks are not going to cut it with omicron ," says Linsey Marr, a researcher at Virginia Tech told NPR ."
That's limited to cloth masks, Jim.
I know that and what do you think the majority of people are wearing today?
I see about half and half. I've been seeing quite a few N95s and KN95s since Omicron became a problem here.
Choosing the least effective mask and then encompassing all masks in general isn't accurate, Jim.
What, given this, is your recommendation?
Wear a mask (a good one not one made out of tee shirt material), social distance, wash hands, go into crowds/groups only if it is necessary. Yours?
The same and I would add get fully vaccinated (with boosters).
A cloth mask is less effective than surgical masks and respirators. That is well known. Although, the type of fabric and number of layers used in a cloth mask also affects its efficacy. But they help reduce or prevent the large droplets expelled, which contain viral particles, during coughing or sneezing from spreading. And as I also said, they are better than nothing at all.
Did you read the article? They don't do fuck all for Omicron for one thing and for the other, they don't stop smaller droplets or "mist" which also contain viral particles. It is by no means just larger droplets.
Look I wear one when I have to. And it is an N95 but those around me who don't are fooling themselves for comfort or style or whatever dumb ass reason.
The article was talking about the efficacy of cloth masks to protect the wearer from infection.
Cloth masks are as effective in mitigating exhaled droplets FROM you for any variant of coronavirus. The virus particles are within the larger payload of droplets and these droplets are large enough to be caught (to some degree) even by cloth.
The recommendation to wear masks remains primarily as a way to protect OTHERS (not the wearer). To protect the wearer, it is recommended to use higher grade N95 masks. And even that should be used as a secondary to being vaccinated and social distancing.
Gordy is correct.
True dat!
Masks protect both the wearer and others around the wearer. What you don't seem to understand is that even cloth masks can mitigate the spread of droplets, either in amount release or distance of spread. The variant of the virus is irrelevant to that. I have acknowledged they are not as effective as surgical or N95 masks. But I also maintained they are better than nothing at all, which is fact. Different types of cloth masks or multiple layers increase efficacy too.
The problem is that the N95 and KN95 are designed for one time use and should be properly fitted. Many will wear the same mask for days on end and NONE are fitted properly. There are OSHA guidelines to their use and fitting that absolutely NOBODY is following.
In a nutshell, the current use of N95 and KN95 could be seen as ineffective as a cloth mask.
A cloth mask is not ineffective and it's disingenuous to state or imply that they are. They are not as effective as N95 masks. But you are correct that proper fitting is important, as improperly fitting masks reduce their efficacy.
yeah...me, too
And all are still more effective than nothing.
This whole attitude of "It doesn't prevent ALL spread, so it's worthless" is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It's plain gaslighting.
I always wear a KN95 and wraparound Wiley glasses when in public places.
On game days I cover the KN95 with a KC Chiefs cloth mask.
GO CHIEFS!
Your 'NOBODY' thing blew your comment Jeremy.
There are tens of MILLIONS of healthcare workers in this country who ARE following OSHA guidelines and who share those guidelines with friends and family.
Secondly, employers that mandate such masks share those guidelines with employees.
Thirdly, those guidelines are easily available for 'laypeople' online.
As to the one time use guidelines. It's relative. How long you wear the mask, how much exposure you've had, the condition of the mask and how you store the mask between uses are all factors.
Nobody???????????????????
Your final sentence is ridiculous.
It's all so much 'join us in our non-compliance and lack of covering.' too! Even people who do not manage to properly don N-95s the first time or several will overtime through practice , commonsense , and shared learning will better situate and properly wear (tighten) N-95s.
You can buy cheap EXTENDERS (Amazon.com for instance) to 'wrap' tightly surgical masks against your face, and you can double-mask! Caution: I stopped buying mask from Amazon.com due to mass distributorships and third-party vendors.
No, the anti-vaxxers and nonvaccinated individuals who throw up obstacles to education and coping with masks want company in their obvious self-doubting of their state of affairs vis-a-vis Omicron and other variants
You are helping to make good things happen! "Live for the applause!"
Did you even read (and comprehend) my comment? The N95 is as effective as the cloth mask when it is not properly fitted to the person wearing it. The N95 is also designed for ONE TIME USE. Meaning it should be thrown away when you take it off to gobble down your whopper.
Did you even read (and comprehend) mine?
So instead of EDUCATING people, you'd rather just howl at the moon. Got ya.
I addressed that 'issue'.
Ever watch Apollo 13?
Yes,I read your comment. Perhaps you should reword it, especially the last part, which implies an N95 is as ineffective as a cloth mask. Improperly worn masks can lose up to 20% of efficacy. I didn't even address the number of uses a mask has. Although, the EPA has found that expired or sterilized and reused N95s, as many were during the mask shortage at the beginning of the pandemic, retain the same level of efficacy as a new N95.
Didn't the teachers get vaccinated? Doesn't the vaccine work? They were granted first place in line? What about the $ Billions they were given in the American Rescue Act to prepare for in-person learning?
No, not all of them did. And you are well aware, or should be, if you're bothering to stay informed, that the vaccine doesn't work as well against the Omicron variant.
As a matter of fact it doesn't work at all against the Omicron variant. Thank God, it's a very mild variant.
It's still making it much less likely that those infected will need hospitalization. And Omicron is mild for most, but is still putting people in the hospital. One local hospital has had to stop elective and non-emergency procedures. Too many Covid patients. Need a joint replacement? Mastectomy? Your son has his 4th ear infection in 6 months, is at risk of hearing loss, and needs tubes in his ears? Sorry for your bad luck.
How can so many, remain so ignorant, as to the actuality of what, and what not, said vaccine, can and cannot in a 100% style fashion accomplish...? It just really isn't that difficult to comprehend. Get Vaccinated and remain less likely to contract and spread Covid 19.
Get vaccinated and minimize your chances of being hospitalized for Covid 19, thus leaving more beds for the unvaccinated sheeple.
Get vaccinated and the less chance of further mutations of virus evolving.
Then, on the other hand, believe LYING POLS and continue to spread and possibly enable more virus mutations, and or be hospitalized, and or DIE.
Out of BILLIONS vaccinated, there is a ridiculously low number of problems found, yet people flock to social diseased media for their disinformation, just going to show US ALL yet still how igknorantzrulz
Some people "know" what they want to "know".
no ? say it is not so , but then you would be in their same bed, and i know you wish not to LIE with they, cause it is far too often all they have to say, and so very concerning , the numbers lost, and led astray , buy lie after lie, brought and bought into, by so damn many, unable to think on their own, asz they continue to think and drink the Kool Aid mixed pink as they continue to allow US to further sink, asz they bite, hooker lines, and sinkers lead , till how many more are led dead...? just so sick up and Fed
Brilliant use of sarcasm in comment 3.4 Vic...keep up the good work!
It's milder for most people. But it's pretty terrible for some...
Those hospitalized are mostly unvaccinated so even the less severe strain is a one way ticket for them
You can still be asymptomatic even when vaccinated. The vaccine only means that if you are one of the few who does get infected with covid19 or the various variants after getting vaxxed/boosted you will not die. How many times do you need to be told this?
I don't have to be told. Least of all from you.
It can be very costly, [removed]
Ya, we all know that.
And Omicron is mild for most, but is still putting people in the hospital.
Yes it is.
One local hospital has had to stop elective and non-emergency procedures. Too many Covid patients. Need a joint replacement? Mastectomy? Your son has his 4th ear infection in 6 months, is at risk of hearing loss, and needs tubes in his ears? Sorry for your bad luck.
It has been a curse. Jane Fonda said it was God's gift for others. Finally it's become a curse for everyone.
Then what are you whining about? Get vaxxed and boosted and move on with your life, or go drink your pee and die.
that's why joe needs to issue an EO that add mandates for covid vaccines to all public school students along with the other contagious viruses required for attendance, allow overwhelmed hospitals to turn away anti-vaxers without a legitimate medical reason for non-vaccination, and let medical insurance providers deny medical benefits to anti-vaxers that get hospitalized without a legitimate medical reason.
I'm vaxxed and boosted. Go preach to someone else.
Which president's EO mandates are to be obeyed?
the one that won the last election, not the monumental buffoon that still claims he did...
Only the ones you vote for. Got it.
Two lies in two sentences.
I didn't know you even said anything.
yeah, that's always been the case in the past. /s
I didn't vote for the party stooge in '76. the hollywood child molester and war criminal in '80 and the same dementia addled fool in '84, his groping GOPer protege in '88, the texas moron in '00 and '04, or the NYC fraudster in '16.
who is the legitimately elected president of the united states now vic?
Then what are you whining about? You should be encouraging other conservatives to do the same thing and get vaxxed/boosted.
again, who is the legitimately elected president of the united states now vic?
You're going to make him choke on his words.
I suppose that depends on whom you ask. There are those who still inexplicably (and insanely) claim Trump won.
If you knew that, why did you say
he can't answer that question in a public forum...
DeSantis is being taking seriously by the left. Here they try and paint him as an anti-vaxxer. One can be against mandates and lock downs without being an anti-vaxxer.
Two other things the hit-piece got wrong:
It is telling that of the many failings DeSantis could cite by Trump, he is seizing on the former president's initial willingness to do anything at all about the pandemic.
1) Trump initially put a ban on flights from China. Trump listened to Dr Fauci every step of the way, including shutting down the economy. He ramped up production of ventilators and as most of the universe knows, he got vaccines developed in record time, Something Fauci said couldn't be done.
Florida governor Ron DeSantis is potentially running for president in 2024 without Donald Trump's permission.
2) Wrong again. Neither DeSantis nor any other Republican will announce their candidacy without knowing what Trump is going to do.
No matter who runs, the democrats are done.
So yes, he does still basically run the party despite others saying no...
DeSantis should be unambiguously promoting vaccinations, masks, social distancing, boosters , etc. He can be against mandates while being pro-precaution.
Everyone in their right mind should be promoting that. It's safe to say that if everyone were, then mandates would not be an issue.
"pro-precaution?" You mean like, rubbers?
Analogously, sure.
Best way to not get infected is to stay away from other people.
But if you must interact then ensure you are fully vaccinated.
And to help reduce the level of infection (even if you have the antibodies to fight off the infection) social distance and wear a mask.
And to help reduce the spread of infection to others (even if you are not going to get sick from your infection) social distance and wear a mask.
Really easy ... I never would have imagined so many would be objecting to these simple precautions out of group-think, conformist, stubborn non-thinking.
And if I were a governor and my constituents were largely against mandates, I would seek the fewest, critical mandates possible but would re-double my efforts to send a clear message of precaution (see above).
Masks?
What did we just learn about masks?
"Amid the intense battle over mask mandates, New York magazine noted a large-scale study published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that found no statistically significant difference in schools that required students to wear masks compared to schools where masks were optional.
The study analyzed some 90,000 elementary students in 169 Georgia schools from Nov. 16 to Dec. 11.
“The 21% lower incidence in schools that required mask use among students was not statistically significant compared with schools where mask use was optional,” the CDC said.
“This finding might be attributed to higher effectiveness of masks among adults, who are at higher risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection but might also result from differences in mask-wearing behavior among students in schools with optional requirements.”
On Friday, meanwhile, COVID-19 data in Oregon showed the new statewide mask mandate has not flattened the rate of infection, according to a Oregon Health & Science University analysis."
I think democrats should do some soul searching as to why they politicized the pandemic.
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From MBFC. You really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for this one. It's sponsored by World Net Daily, which is so biased and full of lies that it isn't an allowed source here. The article is from August of 2021, about a study done in December of 2020. That's before the Delta and Omicron variants. It cites the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons - is a politically conservative non-profit association that promotes medical misinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy.
So, a study that doesn't apply to today's conditions, and assertions by liars with an agenda (the AAPS). Pretty weak, especially when combined with an accusation that Dems politicized the pandemic.
I had to laugh. A 21 percent difference is insignificant?...
It can be statistically, but there was some serious cherry-picking going on here.
Basically, the study found that mask wearing for adults resulted in a 37% decrease in transmission in schools where those adults worked. The transmission reduction was less significant (21%) when students were required to mask. So, the study concluded that
Meanwhile, Vic is trying to use a cherry-picked review of the study to imply the opposite regarding masks.
Also, this study was done before Delta and Omicron had emerged. Both variants have affected children more than earlier variants, so we can't extrapolate that study to conditions existing today.
The GOP Hippocrazy with Crocodile tears stoking the fears, or is it, tearing at the tears to further disfigure and scar, either weigh, a heavy burden on USALL
We will not wear masks and bow down to tyranny. We will not be forced by democrats to do their bidding. They want mandates in order to control us. The democrats are lying and forcing us to do things against our will...
Now don't you dare make this political...
no need, aswz Trump immediately did to further his own re-lection bid, and under wear Trumps' mark, did take a skid
What motivates people to encourage others to not take precautions? This is partisan insanity IMO. You apparently seek (confirmation bias) anything that supports a ridiculous position of ' do not take precautions ' while ignoring the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Why? Because you think that wearing masks is part of a D strategy to rule the world?
I find it highly irresponsible to attempt to dissuade people from taking basic precautions during a pandemic.
And I think Ron DeSantis should be brought to task for preventing his wife, who is undergoing breast cancer treatment that usually resorts in serious immunodeficiency problems, from wearing a mask in crowded public places in a foolish and dangerous attempt to prove that mask-wearing is pointless. And yes, I am aware that her desire to one day become FLOTUS increases her willingness to promote her husband's platforms greatly.
You're being generous. I find it reprehensible.
I just cannot wrap my head around such 'thinking'. Ignore reason, ignore facts and promote irresponsible behavior strictly for partisan objectives.
Some seem to forget, of course, that if such partisan advice is taken mostly by, well, partisans, one is doing in one's own side.
I suspect that some fancy themselves 'quite smart' by 'reading between the lines' to see what is 'really going on'. So in this 'reading' they find that the push for masks is not motivated by prudent precautions during a pandemic ... it really is simply a D strategy to control people.
This nonsense gets pushed by partisans and the gullible conformists (who ironically seem to fancy themselves as non-conformists) suck it up. In result, we see millions getting unnecessarily sick (some dying).
An acquaintance of mine (a great, personable, helpful guy, fellow drummer) just died. He was mid 40s, fit, healthy, strictly organic diet, etc. But he was convinced that the vaccines were unnecessary and that masks make you sick by trapping your exhaled breath. I wish I had been more aggressive and tried to convince him otherwise.
yea!
We recently lost one of our county's emergency services dispatchers. She was 48. Left behind a husband and two kids - one was in college, not sure about the other. Even though she was frequently dispatching ambulances to take people to the hospital with Covid, she wouldn't get the vaccine. Hospitals were on diversion, things were so bad, and dispatchers obviously knew this, but she wouldn't get the vaccine.
One bright spot - my assistant's son is dating another dispatcher who refused to get vaccinated, until this dispatcher's death changed her mind.
It bring a question to my mind. I floated the question once before on a different group article (the article itself did not get my comment).
It seems some conservatives and libertarians and their affiliations (anti-vaxxers, etceteras) play up the liberty and freedom model so high and mightily that, for them, it becomes sacrosanct. That is, nothing must dim or tamper with the rights and privileges given in the constitution: Not even life and death dynamics of the modern era.
Some conservatives apparently take the perspective so seriously and gravely that at no time should we behave as a collective setting aside individual rights and privileges, except in the case of national defense. To these conservatives, to execute a collectivists policy no matter how necessary and good for all, is to offer a brace to a 'steady' decline to what they erroneously label "socialism."
Anyway, at that other article I asked this question:
For example, the flu virus. Is it possible that anti-vaxxers and non-vaccinated people 'vessels' or 'containers' for variant forms annually that get transmitted between themselves and previously vaccinated folks?.
Meh.
So sorry for this loss. Your description of him does him 'justice.' You might have done all you could do, and greater aggression in this case might have caused personal alienation. Since the era of Glenn Beck on television I have endured the see-sawing relations of a dear friend who politically tuned me out and who recently survived SARS-2 while taking 'alternatives' to the vaccine. All I could do is watch (and silently pray). Immediate family and a sick loved one could not persuade him to get vaccinated and he remains unvaccinated even now. (Learned nothing from his ordeal in that regard.) Anyway, influencers are real! What we allow ourselves to trust in can be very potent in our minds and ways of dealing with problems and life.
I have learned to care enough to 'shore up' my feelings, after I reach the point in sharing with those whom I love-who politically won't or can't hear me, where talking and 'pressing in' has accomplished all it can. They will just have to go the way of that which is their "influencer/s." In term, I will watch and engage from a safe distance and laugh with them or cry alongside others as the case may be.
All the best to you and may you accept his departure in peace.
Agreed. There is such a thing as pushing too hard, and that can cause people to dig in their heels more firmly.
TiG, being more aggressive may have done no good at all, but may have resulted in contention with a friend.
rubbers?
It's just too bad his father never used one.
Why do you think it is that the Dems politicized the pandemic-- but the Republicans haven't?
(In case anyone missed it...this comment is meant as sarcasm...extreme sarcasm!)
The question should be: Why don't people trust bureaucrats?
Answer:
A better question is, why do people trust bureaucrats over scientists?
No, you think DeSantis should be stopped at this point because he is after all: Trump without the baggage!
Ahhh, that's what they fear!
They don't... it just when a scientist leaves science to go work for the government as a talking head he becomes another political bureaucrat who lies to serve his masters...
They don't deserve any more trust than the average politician...
Dr. Fauci didn't 'leave science to work for the government as a talking head'
Who conducts scientific research? The government? No, actual scientists do. It's when the government attempts to speak for science, coupled with peoples general stupidity and ignorance of science that's the problem.
It has been known since the beginning of the pandemic that cloth masks are less effective than surgical masks and that the more layers, the closer the 'knit' the better. Nothing new there.
So, again, what motivates people to encourage others to not take precautions?
Does it occur to you that some people prefer officials who encourage the public to get vaccinated and do not pander to a misguided base that irrationally believes that any actions taken by government which imposes restrictions during a pandemic is part of some vast conspiracy?
Now that's simply not true. Your boy Fauci first said masks were useless then told us they prevented you giving it to others then said the more masks the better. Last seen he didn't even wear one before congress.
Now the CDC finally admitted the truth!
Why not admit there was a lot of mixed messaging coming from the so called "experts."
Ny niece refused to get vaccinated & had her husband & kids going along with her "fear" of the vaccine. She has a young daughter with Spina Bifida and other physical issues that make it impossible for her to get the vaccine. Her husband got Covid in the second week of December - it went through her & all three kids. It was awful. My niece also has a heart issue which usually was only a problem when she was pregnant. After her bout with Covid her heart issue became a non-pregnant problem. She talked to her kids' pediatrician and spoke about her "fears" and the doctor flat out told her if she is worried about protecting her immune suppressed daughter then the only course of action for her & the rest of the family is to GET VACCINATED. As soon as the wait period is up they will be vaccinated.
I told my sister I won't be visiting until they are vaccinated & boosted. I have my own daughter to protect.
If I had an immune suppressed child I would have been chomping at the bit to get my vaccine. Did she not listen to the medical staff when her daughter was born...how important it was to keep her away from viruses and such?
That's a very good question
She is one that listens to all the right wing bullshit. When the vaccines came out, I did not know if my daughter would be able to get one because of her immune disorder, so I got myself on the wait list ASAP, so did hubby & my son. However, she was able to get the vaccine & got hers before we got ours - but we are all vaxxed & boosted. I still will not take a chance by seeing my niece & her family. Which is really hard on my sister.
My boy? I am to take your comment as serious with that snarky crap? Put the uber partisan bias aside for a moment and focus on what I wrote:
Show me any official statement that says that cloth masks are anywhere close to the efficacy of surgical masks.
Yeah, Vic, your strawman will not work. I am holding you to responding to what I actually wrote.
Of course the experts will revise their recommendations! They have been navigating a fucking pandemic. On the bleeding edge of our scientific knowledge. How utterly naïve to think that these folks are going to have the perfect recommendations right off the bat and will never need to adjust based on new findings.
Utterly, amazingly naïve.
That's the strawman. Here is what we were told back in April of 2020:
"White House coronavirus Task Force member Dr. Anthony Fauci said Friday that the general public should be wearing cloth masks if they cannot keep a safe distance from others.
"The better part of valor when you’re out and you can’t maintain that six-foot distance is to wear some type of facial covering. An important point to emphasize though is that should never take away the availability of the masks that are needed for the health care providers who are in real present danger. So this is an addition to the physical separation, not as a substitute for it," he said on Fox & Friends , explaining why the CDC has reversed course on the recommendation for people to cover their faces in public."
Of course the experts will revise their recommendations!
They've been all over the board. They even let the Teacher's Union write up a recommendation. They are a national disgrace.
You have not delivered any official statement that cloth masks are as effective as surgical masks.
Don't attempt to bullshit me and others, Vic. Deal with what I actually wrote.
After being here for years now, I haven't seen ONE conservative that understands the concept of a strawman, despite it being explained ad nauseam.
Some seem to like the idea but fail to research it enough to use it cogently.
Surgical masks are actually ineffective on covid transmission.
They divert air to/from the sides rather than filter it.
Then substitute the terms N95, KN95, KF94 because that is what is recommended. I was using surgical only to distinguish between the good masks and cloth masks.
The point (since you have given Vic the opportunity to yet again deflect from the point) is that it has never been suggested by a medical authority that cloth masks are as effective as those designed to filter particles.
Boy, that's some piece of work there. I mean its like "boy" Fauci (how irrespectful can you be to a infectious disease specialist -lifetime achievement) is guilty of clashing and generating all his remarks one on top of the other without any nuance (details). d
Dr. Fauci can't communicate with people who carry around old newspapers as current events.
That depends on the type of surgical mask used. Some are designed for preventing droplet spread while others protect against splashes. The use of ear loop vs string ties also makes a difference. Masks have an efficacy range of 38-72% which is not as good as N95 masks, but still better than cloth masks. Even if droplets escape from the sides of the masks, the distance they travel is greatly reduced, which in turn reduces the chance of infecting someone.
Haven't worn anything but a KN-95 for years now. Why take the risk?
Agreed. If one can get a more effective mask then one should certainly do so and wear it.
Some do not want to hear anything but bad claims about Fauci. It is, at this point, pathetic. I am truly sick of the uber-partisan, pointless attacks on Fauci which hold him to a ridiculous standard of perfection. Especially when the Fauci attackers are full time apologists for Trump. It is like being in a room with someone who cheated at cards and Bernie Madoff (major ponzi scheme mastermind) and watching people attack the card cheater while holding Madoff up as a hero.
I wonder if the 'sound and fury' effect of SARS 2 COVID 19 vaccine 'deniers' has exposed a loophole in why we are vaccinated annually. Are anti-vaxxers and non-compliant people responsible for these germs floating about and finding respiratory systems to incubate in every year?
It is significant that some say this is why SARS 2 COVID 19 shall be a permanent vaccination routine (the "science" of how regular to medicate to be worked out).
Are anti-vaxxers and obstructionists really killing people when they 'bar mental entry through the doors' of vaccination clinics?
At this point, anti-vaccers are little more than biological threats or terrorists.
Not to come in negatively, but I need to ask are you checking the makers of your KN95's? There are a number of 'store bought' and overseas shyster companies out and about still. Though, if KN95's are all you wear and so far so good, it seems you are reasonably covered with good masks or not tasked to be around many infected types.
I use EXTENDERS around the back of my head to 'ratchet' tight my mask earloops, and double-mask a great deal.
I have observed what doctors, nurses, medical receptionists, and hospital workers wear in their day to day operations: Many of these people in and out of facilities - up to Omicron anyway- wear a single surgical mask during their shifts. OMICRON might cause that to shift as word gets around!
Plus, many conservatives and people in general too do not understand the scientific method. That is, science is neither friend or foe to politicians or those who peer through the lens of microscopes.
I don't think people understand science in general and show little or no desire to understand it. People seem to want simplistic explanations from non-science sources, either to fit their own bias or to connect with an emotional appeal. Many clearly do not look at it rationally or objectively.
I do regard Dr. Fauci in one negative sense: He 'saturates' television. He should save his appearances and interviews for the most significant develops in SARS 2 science and breakthroughs. Dr. Fauci is a high ranking official, Director of the National Institute of Health, allow a subordinate (maybe 'fresh face' younger even) to field questions all day in his stead.
I am pretty sure his family and friends would appreciate and worry about his (and their) safety less if he is not 'standing posed in the marketplace' holding a 'lightning rod' for SARS-2 propagandists to flashpoint as often as they can direct it.
A man with his professional years of service, 'sunsetting' career, proper legacy, good family life does not need to be harassed into retiring or invite undue trouble from boisterous (and dangerous) malcontents who choose to hate his. . . being the picture of SARS--2 recovery!
During a pandemic, I would expect the person holding Fauci's role to be in the news.
Can we view such people as disease carriers across years, such that eradication becomes out of the question on various hard to end diseases? In your opinion. Or am I thinking too much?
Again, a pandemic, because of its significance in altering life currents and events, is exposing human shortcomings in knowledge of their world. Many will think that science is, well, something they 'know.' When you come at science from the perspective of scientists and medical doctors. . . these men and women know that constants in their field of study is good-great-swell, but when the word, "novel" enters in. . . change can be disruptive.
I understand. I just feel for Dr. Fauci. Because effectively his critics are 'bearing their teeth' at him. Moreover, they see him as negatively 'magnetic'! That is, a fundraising tool. There are two people that come to mind that get Dr. Fauci's treatment (and they both were in their proper roles: 1. Nancy Pelosi. 2. Hillary Clinton.
I do understand your point, nevertheless.
I think you are being nicer than I in your use of terms.
Of course, many people nowadays have little to no scientific acumen and listen to any source other than actual scientific sources. I suspect they only want someone to give them positive reassurance (regardless of validity or lack thereof) instead of cold, hard facts or uncertainty.
Of course, that is a national problem exacerbated by time and proximity to a, any, 'strongman' and its henchmen (and henchwomen) and their efforts to retake leadership of this country. Odd, a certain set of politicians, led by a former president, finally intend to take in praise for the science of vaccinations but none of the offense (or "sorry") for piss poor messaging, sickness, and deaths.
I don't think I have ever read about or lived through a presidential administration which got everything 99.99 percent of the time right. I recently lived through a political party/grouping that will not apologize for getting a 'smidgen' of medical policy wrong!
The unvaccinated people aren't the only thing keeping us from eradication. Covid has been known to infect many animals, too. I recently read that a zoo, can't remember where, lost one of its big cats to Covid pneumonia. Covid has been found in the deer population. Even if we could get every human vaccinated, there is still a viral reservoir among several species of animals, some wild and therefore not available for vaccination.
Covid is going to become endemic, I believe.
I do remember seeing similar stories on Smartnews (scanning), and about house cats too? I note your larger point. Another question pops up: Human virus strands are for humans alone? Or can viruses easily or routinely "jump" from animals to humans?
Stop the dishonesty! The CDC and Fauci promoted cloth masks. Now they say they were useless.
OWN UP TO IT!
Not true? Cloth masks are less effective than high tech masks but they are not useless and neither Fauchi nor the CDC ever said they are!
Vic, do you have any clue whatsoever what I have claimed? You either are totally confused or you are making shit up.
Read what I wrote before you accuse me of dishonesty:
This means that cloth masks are less effective than masks like the KN95 and N95. This has been stated since day one. Never has the CDC stated that cloth masks were more effective than those designed to filter out incoming air. Never.
Cloth masks are okay for stopping the spread of an infection (from you to others) because even cloth can stop the larger droplets which contain the virus as a payload. They are not as effective for breathing in infected air. Nothing has changed here. CDC does not state that cloth masks are useless but rather (big fucking surprise) recommend higher quality masks since they are now readily available.
If one must deviate into an alternate reality to push one's political agenda, one should rethink the correctness of one's agenda.
That was because there was a shortage of PPG for nurses in ICUs during the early stages of COVID. They wanted the best masks (N95s) to go to hospitals.
And cloth masks are useful. They block the larger droplets which help protect those in the vicinity of the individual wearing a cloth mask
Here READ:
Good grief Vic the confirmation bias on display is staggering.
Read this:
Just read the words without the ridiculous partisan bias. The CDC recommends that everyone use masks like N95s over cloth masks because the cloth masks are not as effective.
How obvious can this be?
The CDC link includes a section on cloth masks:
Note that the CDC recommends using a better quality mask than cloth masks since they are readily available to all.
Isn't Leanna Wen, a previous President of Planned parenthood, the spawn of the devil?
Or is her commentary just a happy coincidence of confirmation bias that isn't as crazy as
Alex jones, Paul Key or Dr. Edward Group
Just because someone has DR. in front of their name and appears online or better yet on tv
doesn't mean much in this day and age.
It just means they have high opinions of themselves and their own conclusions.
It validates nothing
How about you stop with the dishonest BS Vic! Because Dr. Fauci & the CDC never said cloth masks were "useless." That's either a lie or the perpetuation of a lie! They said cloth masks are not as effective as surgical or N95 masks, which is already well known. And cloth is certainly better than nothing at all. Anyone with half a brain knows that even cloth can prevent or mitigate the spread of expelled droplets containing the virus.
No kidding! It is as though some want their own special reality so much that they will ignore the facts in front of their face and dishonestly leap at any hint that helps confirm their belief (or political agenda). It is almost as bad as denying 1 + 1 = 2.
This is likely the very phenomenon that results in so many people stubbornly refusing to get vaccinated.
It's both dishonest and delusional.
The ban was for non USA Citizens.
At least 40,000 Americans were allowed to return to the US bringing the virus with them.
On February 3rd people coming from Wuhan faced a 14 day quarantine.
Americans continued to come back from other parts of China for months.
It was a mistake to treat citizens and non citizens differently. Period.
China is not letting any US flights in for now.
I agree.
Absolutely. Anybody returning should have been under a strict 14-day quarantine, given what we knew at the time, if they were allowed to return at all. The ban seemed to be written with the assumption that citizenship conferred protection from the virus.
and FEDEX and others were allowed to fly "essential' material in an out of LA and SF without
On March 20,2020 Trump announced that the ban only applied to people, not trade.
So ships and planes continued to bring possibly infected people and material to our airports and shipping ports
throughout the pandemic
If Trump runs, he will squash DeSantis like a bug. How? By lying about him , the same way he squashed everyone in 2016. As long as so many Republicans still believe in Trump he has no worries.
If Trump runs-- I doubt DeSantis will oppose him.
The majority of the Republican Party loves Trump--for DeSantis to oppose him would probably mark the end of DeSantis' political career.
(Imagine a Republican Primary where DeSantis runs against Trump...)
Bad for DeSantis (but good for the Dems!)
And now for a word from our sponsor:
Rush - Malignant Narcissism
And a welcome interlude at that! Rush is always on topic for my seeds.
DeSantis has done a great job in Florida with COVID.../s
I dunno. They've got some interesting statistics in their favor.
Florida has the second-highest percentage of old people of any state in the US, yet they rank 17th in Covid deaths per million residents. So whatever they did or didn't do, they managed to keep a whole ton of very vulnerable people from dying.
They have fewer Covid deaths per capita than NY, NJ, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, to name a few.
Florida also leads the nation in Covid recoveries by nearly 50% over the next closest state (NY).
Actually, we don't know that since Florida stopped reporting LTC facility's deaths in June of 2021.
Florida has a higher number of a deaths per 100,000 than CA, TX and IL to name a few.
Unlike most of the states mentioned Florida doesn't have a cold in the house season which lends itself to fewer cases and deaths.
we don't know that since Florida stopped reporting LTC facility's deaths in June of 2021.
That's not true. Covid deaths are still reported, they just aren't broken out .
Florida doesn't have a cold in the house season which lends itself to fewer cases and deaths.
They have this thing called summer, which leads everyone to stay inside in air conditioning. There's a reason the south has the worst summer outbreaks
And they are not required to report them. It would be nice to know how many of our seniors have died, don't you think?
Thanks for that astute observation, I wasn't aware that we have summer here. Millions are out and about in the summer months in Florida. I suppose that you are aware that we have miles and miles of beaches and they seem to be filled in the summer no less. Oh, then there is Disney, Universal that are loaded with people in the summer.
you still know how many Floridians have died, that what was the point.
, I wasn't aware that we have summer here.
Glad I could help. I figured no one familiar with summer in Florida could miss the widely reported connection between the excessive heat, widespread use of air conditioning and high covid rates.
Actually, it wasn't the point in my response to Jack. It was in response to Jack's comment about the number of seniors that did or didn't die and/or if DeSantis did a good job.
Many reports said it ''may'' increase the deaths and others said it did not. Also, the peak death rate in the summer of 2020 was very close to the peak death rate in the winter of 2020/21. The death rate in the summer of 2121 could be from the more deadly delta variant.
Too many Floridians have died.
Interesting. However the article does also say:
Obviously that number will have increased with all the others during the winter surge, but their total number is still better than 16 other states.
Given the percent of their population over 65, it would be surprising if they didn't.
The point here was how well or poorly De Santis has supposedly handled Covid. Statistically, there is at least some evidence to suggest he's done a better job than quite a few of his counterparts. Granted, there are a large number of additional moving parts in that equation, but it's certainly more involved than political tribalism.
Ca. senior population is well beyond Florida's in raw numbers 6 million vs 4.5 million.
In a non-political tribal view, there is evidence that the summer surge of 2021 was worse because of DeSantis policies. His fight against mask and vaccine mandates, fighting the school district's private business and especially the cruise lines in their wanting to have masks is one of the causes of the high deaths from COVID in the summer of 2021.
There are numerous articles that address this.
Fighting against vaccines and/or precautions or supporting such policies during a pandemic is mind boggingly irresponsible and stupid.
DeSantis didn't fight the vaccines or masks but he did fight against mandates by school districts and private businesses in mandating them. Which is mind-bogglingly stupid.
I'm just saying fighting vaccines in general, like what anti-vaccers do, is stupid. But you are correct.
And more senior citizens have died of Covid in CA than in FL. That's why we use per capita numbers.
Is there actual statistical evidence based on actual real data? How have they accounted for all of the other variables?
That's the thing. The data on individuals wearing masks is pretty clear. The data on mask mandates is anything but. There is a lot of modeling, but actual real-world data is all over the place.
It's not difficult to find data comparing two places for a given time period that supports the idea of mask mandates. It's also not difficult to find data showing that they're utterly useless.
Many people find a set of data that supports their tribe and ignore the rest.
Which certainly does not preclude political tribalism. Such are the sad times in which we live.
We don't know how many seniors have died from COVID in Fl. per capita or not.
Since most experts believe that masks/social distancing and hand washing help limit the spread of COVID it is better to be safe than dead. A quote from Dr. John of UMass.
That is obvious from the number of people that are not vaccinated. My tribe is vaccinated at a 95% plus rate how about your tribe?
But we know how many seniors died in Florida.
Do we? Last I heard Florida is undercounting!
ast I heard Florida is undercounting!
Of course you did. Are you going to cite Rebekah Jones?
That was a fun ride.
According to the FL department of health as of 12/31/21 it was 47,101 over 65 have died from COVID. That number is in dispute but let's take that number as accurate.
CA has around 55,000 deaths over 65 from COVID.
CA death per capita is 197 per 100,000 and FL is 291 per 100,000.
That is all deaths including the over 65.
Sure. But you're specifically blaming a political figure for not enacting a mandate. Do we have actual evidence that mandates actually work in the real world?
My family is all vaccinated and boosted. I think it's a great idea, but I'm not willing to force everybody to do it.
I'm not blaming DeSantis for not enacting a mandate, although I would certainly support it but for attempting to stop mandates from private businesses and schools districts by trying to pass laws and withholding finances from the school districts for implementing them. I am most certainly going to take the word of medical experts vs a politician on what is the best way to battle COVID.
Seems my tribe is considerably larger than yours, by a couple of hundred thousand or so and I support the fact that if businesses want to implement a mandate (which we have done) that is their right and it is not in the preview of some politician to make that determination. I feel exactly the same way about schools districts implementing a mask or vaccine mandate.
Fair enough. Abbott did this in Texas, and it pissed me off.
I own the company, and if I want to set a dress code for my employees and/or customers, I'm doing it. Executive order be damned.
Desantis 20Never!
If you are still in the gop get out of the gop! It is time.
I don't think anyone with common sense would do that.
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Do you have a link for that?
(Or is it just some random thought you had that you decided to post here/)
DeSantis is encouraging anti-vaxxers by refusing to acknowledge that he IS vaccinated.
Show us, with facts, not your feelings, where DeSantis is an anti vaxxer and the people he Is talking to are also anti vaxxers.
My guess, and I'm normally correct, is that there will be no cohesive or coherent answer coming.
I did NOT say DeSantis is an "anti-vaxxer".
Reading is fundaMENTAL.
Try again. Here's my comment:
DeSantis is encouraging anti-vaxxers by refusing to acknowledge that he IS vaccinated.
Looks like I've been typing his name incorrectly. I thought it was De Satan.
It's death Santis
or as the wife says "that Florida death sentence"
Hey DeSantis. Perhaps you meant, "Too dishonest and superbly insane?"
If anybody can be worse that Donald Trump I do not wish him or her on my worse enemies. These people have lost their senses. Covid deaths abounding across our great country is not a soap-opera drama.
On his very worst day, I do not see DeSantis coming even remotely close to the most critical flaws of Trump: malignant narcissism and pathological lying. Trump is so over the top in those departments he stands alone in a category of his own.
DeSantis is what I would call a decent human being in the context of my oft-repeated advice: "the GOP should just rally behind someone (other than Trump); someone who is at least a decent human being". I cannot, for example, imagine DeSantis perpetrating something like Trump's Big Lie con-job.
I am, however, having trouble warming up to his pandemic policies.
Oh, where to start,
DeSantis names doctor opposed to mask and vaccine mandates as Florida’s surgeon general
Sorry, Kav, but your governor is a straight-up mini-Trump moosh noosh.
A moosh noosh is an understatement. He is much more like bagaak (bringer of death)
Hi TiG, the article mentions DeSantis' being to the right of Donald Trump regarding this pandemic. And that will lead to a great deal of lying and cover-up when the 'fur' starts flying during investigations of who said what and when. DeSantis, according to the article, says he should have 'rebuked' Trump over social distancing, and the national lock-down. Moreover, Donald Trump is implicating politicians (DeSantis?) who won't speak about their own self-protection with vaccines and boosters as "gutless." It is telling that Donald Trump wishes to 'come clean' and stand in the light on vaccines and boosters now as a way to expose the hypocrisy of some other republican politicians.
That's a series of big flashing red-lights!
A future president, of any stripe or party affiliation, who would put on a pair of rose-colored glasses to manage this killer of a pandemic, and the next one (should it happen in his or her administration) would be a truly dangerous, toxic leader.
With that in mind, I accept he might be a decent human being.
With that in mind, I accept he might be a decent human being.
Remember, even Hitler loved his pet dog!
Oooooohhhhh. Touché.
Is there a word for straight up asshole?
Moosh noosh is ''dumbass'' and diyaawi is ''being an ass'' both seem to fit
Is there a word for straight up asshole?
Yes-- in fact, there's even a hat for that!
Perfect!
Yes - - Democrats