18 Children , 2 Teachers Dead In Texas Elementary School Shooting - The New York Times
Category: News & Politics
Via: john-russell • 3 years ago • 382 commentsBy: Jesus Jimenez (nytimes)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
This story has been updated by the Texas State Police - 18 elementary school children , and 2 of their teachers, are dead in a mass shooting.
The Uvalde Police Department said just after 1 p.m. that the assailant was in police custody.
VideoMore than 12 people were injured in a shooting at a Texas elementary school. The assailant is in police custody, according to the Uvalde Police Department.CreditCredit...Marco Bello/Reuters
By Jesus Jimenez
May 24, 2022, 4:17 p.m. ET
More than a dozen children were injured in a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday afternoon, and at least two people were dead, Uvalde Memorial Hospital said.
The two people who were killed had died by the time they arrived at the hospital, the hospital said on Facebook. Their ages were not immediately released. The conditions of those who were injured were unclear. The Uvalde Police Department said just after 1 p.m. that the assailant was in police custody.
In an earlier update, the hospital said several students from the school, Robb Elementary, were being treated in the emergency room.
Another hospital, University Health in San Antonio, said that it had received two patients, a child and an adult, from the shooting.
Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District said on Twitter that there was an "active shooter" at the school around noon.
The school district said it had designated the DeLeon Civic Center, about a mile and a half from the school, as a reunification site for parents to pick up their children.
Uvalde is a city of about 16,000 people about 84 miles west of San Antonio.
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Evidently no good guys wth guns were available for duty.
Are you really going to politicize this too?
Were there good guys with guns available to prevent this , or not?
It was an inappropriate and sick comment on your part.
It was an elementary school!
Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act: Originally enacted in 1990, the Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) is a federal law that requires states to restrict firearms on school property.
That is not even worth dignifying with a response. Bad form JR.
So what? Sandy Hook Elementary resolved nothing about guns in conservative circles, but generated standard rhetoric. Sandy Hook Elementary School razed to the ground: So What?!
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Yes, there was, and a CBP officer shot and killed the shooter.
Where were this kids parents? They must have known something was wrong.
I'd love to see them interviewed.
Do you expect anything less?
Why must they have known something was wrong? (Ramos lived with his grandmother I am to understand the news accounting.) She is shot This is not a 'disciplinary matter,' Vic. Persons who lack discipline don't go out and kill other people and themselves.
After his drug user Mom kicked him out several months ago.
I don't need to involve his mom in this just so as render judgement on her. I don't know where you 'divined' this info, or read it but in any case, if Ramos was not in the 'parents' home or dwelling why diss her for her choices in life?
Right here.................
See1.1.17
Help me out and defend Mom.
I thought gender neutral.
Okay, now that is reporting and acceptable. Now do you know how it fits into the narrative that Ramos shoots Grandma and enters an elementary school to maim and kill?
She more than likely tried to stop him. You don't go unnoticed leaving a home with a couple of guns and wearing body armor.
And........... she was a druggie as said. Didn't need defending.
A druggie human being. Even her own mother was disowning her and going to put her out of the house the mother owned.
Virtue signaling aside, she is her own worst enemy. Perhaps Dr. Phil can help her out.
It isn't lack of empathy. Ever hear the phrase "Tough Love"?
Not that, this:
Tessylo, have you observed that a certain commenter leads the 'background' search on who has some diminishing aspect in these crises? Yes, that one does. It is a distraction from the gun debate, the shooting, and indirectly the children, teachers, and law enforcers who are dead or traumatized.
It's a ("smelly") red herring to chase those not directly affiliated with what dumb ass Ramos with a set of guns has wrought on society, to search out and destroy everybody, anybody else reputation farther.
Exactly, Salvador grew up:
- without a father in his life
- speech impediments
- experienced severe bullying
- fractured home life
- increasingly angry and isolated
- sliced his own face 'for fun'
- subject of homophobic slurs
- mocked for how he dressed
Why would anyone think that he needed a healthy relationship with his mother?
Or, as in some cases, imposed by a minority.
Still does not lead into any open discussion about the mother's drug life as causal to his state of mind in this shooting, does it? Two things can be true and incidental. You have no reason to remark on the mother (at this point), beyond putting him away from her.
After all, you can't connect a background narrative to how depraved Trump is on any given day where you have reams of evidence and a life that is held up to the light on a daily basis, but here you are 'aptly' digging out the life of a poor woman standing in the shadows. There is something definitely wrong going on here.
Ok, let's avoid any open discussion.
According to HuffPo:
Texas Shooting Onlookers Say Police Were 'Unprepared,' Didn't Go Into School
Name one republican and quote this person saying exactly what you accuse them of.
So the huff po wants more trained good guys with more guns.
Well, there was the 73 million dollar lawsuit against Remington that got settled in February of this year. I'm sure a huge number of anti gun leftist liberals were positively thrilled over that.
They don't like our manufacturing sector any more than our energy one.
Don't expect a reasonable answer.
Oh, I don't.
At best I'll get......"I don't answer to you"
If anything at all.
Yep, that would de standard.
Or perhaps it is a lot to ask even trained police to follow a guy wearing body armor and carrying two assault rifles down a hallway.
So maybe something we should be looking into making it harder for civilians to buy AR15s? Because even the good guys with the guns didn't sign up for certain suicide. It's not the first time the armed security guards were slow to engage during an active shooter situation. We can shame them all we want but it is what it is.
Is your solution to dress the fourth grade teachers in body armor and issue them AR15s? Good gals with guns and chalkboards?
The Senate.
The anti-democratic features of the US senate give disproportionate representation to a rural minority of Americans.
They didn't get everything right.
I think they blew it when they worded the Second Amendment and we would do ourselves a favor to give it a decent rewrite.
In the space of a single sentence they tried to strike a balance between between the militia being "well regulated" and people having "uninfringed" rights. It was just too cute and it has left us with a mess. People shouldn't have to feel like banning assault rifles is the camel's nose in the tent that leaves them unable to defend their property from intruders or themselves from wild animals or serial killers. Counties with vastly different realities should be able to have different ownership and carry standards.
Damn that Connecticut Compromise.
Please share with us the draft of your rewrite.
The Uvalde Police Department said just after 1 p.m. that the assailant was in police custody.
Typical of the Times. Don't even know what happened.
A Border Patrol agent who was working nearby when the shooting began rushed into the school without waiting for backup and shot and killed the gunman , who was behind a barricade, according to a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk about it.
Oh please, stuff it. Breaking news stories reported in real time often have to be corrected a little afterwards. Big fucking deal. They got the basic story correct.
I know - if we don't read "your" story, the others are wrong - got it.
I said no such thing. You are complaining about the NYT story. All I want to know is why.
Didn't need to say it - your "thoughts" are in bold print - "I'M RIGHT - YOU'RE WRONG".
Read 1.3 - truly - read 1.3.
Why ruin a good story with things like truth, facts, and logic that boggle the liberal mindset?
Read the real news story John - you might actually learn something.
Gunman kills 18 children, 3 adults in Texas grade school
Evidently, yes
If there had been, the shooter likely would have been stopped much sooner.
I think you were trying to be politically clever with your comment, but I don’t think you thought it through.
Evidently your gun laws failed again.
The headline is wrong. He is not in custody and never was. He was killed.
Did he just disappear after he got killed? If not, then he is in custody. Just dead in custody.
Just messing with ya
Another…another…another.
When does the time come, and how many children need die, before we hold every candidate for elected office to account?
Your comment makes no sense
It means, greg, that until we hold our elected officials accountable to address the carnage, we as an electorate are also accountable.
Just what is so hard to comprehend?
So your answer is even stricter gun laws which don't work, because killers and criminals ignore such laws and background checks
What about holding accountable judges and district attorney's who release violent criminals on bail or in some cases with no bail only to have them kill somebody else?
How about holding accountable district attorney's who allow plea deals to remove gun crimes, or who refuse to prosecute those who lie on their ATF form 4473?
“What about…”
Fuck that whole line of reasoning…for it is not reasoning, it is but self-serving platitudinous pandering.
What law would have prevented this while remaining constitutional?
Replace it.
He cannot.
What laws do you want to see passed?
I am numb to this. That is, I will keep my tears to myself. This IS who this country is. In 'Dodge City' I and everyone I love is a
Now on with the "collecting of the dead, the funerals, and the long winding speeches.
15 dead, 14 kids and a teacher.
Heart breaking...🥀🥀🥀
It's just gone 7am here and that dreadful news is headlines once again...
Wow! You all see us . . . for the stupid and weak shmucks we are. I won't ask you and you need not share what Australia says about us and this.
It's the headline news in both Canada and China as well. The whole world is watching, and I don't think the whole world can understand that nothing of any consequence is being done about mass shootings and gun violence in general in the world's "EXCEPTIONAL" NUMBER ONE NATION.
Anoon CB..shock, sadness, sympathy, it's happened again, loss on how anyone can try and stop it... devastation for the families of the lost souls who have been taken before their time...🥀🥀🥀
Oh this nation is smart enough to stop it. It just won't. You see how opportunity presented itself in the death of Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Justice of SCOTUS and with a majority, conservatives are setting themselves a course of female freedoms, liberties, and privileges just as soon as the abortion opinion striking down abortion federally is lifted! They can start/stop a great deal. . .with democratic party numbers in assent if they want to- they don't want to fix a dang gun thing. We're just "peachy." Don't waste tears over us.
I am done shedding tears over any more gun deaths in my stupid country. It's our just desserts! And, the whole country is now guilty for the murder of its innocents (once again). Wonder how this will look in print and how conservatives plan to hide it from school text books!
At least, since it happened in America, the whole world can watch.
Since that's so, then maybe America should try a little harder to be more of a good example for the rest of the world.
We should all try to set good examples - not just because anyone is watching, but because it’s the right thing to do.
Chickens come home to roost.
Don't lump us all together.
The people who get off on guns and the death and fear we all must endure for their 2nd Amendment boners have the rest of us at their mercy.
The people who would not get vaccinated and won't wear masks have us all at their mercy as Covid continues to kill.
These assholes have the upper hand and they are ascendant.
We are not all equally culpable.
And I can only be so polite about it.
Like Salvador?
2nd Amendment boners?
A Latino, macho thing?
But freedom and personal rights....are not to be restrained no matter what the consequences.
I'm not familiar enough with you to know whether you are being serious or sarcastic.
Yeah, like Salvador.
Make America Salvador Again.
People are angry and not in the mood to hold hands with people who facilitate mass death.
MAGA with a not so quiet dash of Q is the movement of pandemic death, Ukraine genocide, mass shootings, and violent insurrection.
To hell with Kumbaya.
Read my member profile page.
I did but I could easily project a conservative onto that profile as I could a progressive or liberal.
OTOH, you are Canadian and gun nuts tend to be Americans.
(deleted)
You mean Q?
I had suspected you were a fan.
There is a reason for that. Think of me as being more centrist and independent than most members here. I can lean in any direction depending on my own personal feelings and beliefs and have made enemies here both liberal and conservative because of it.
And, for the record, it was sarcastic.
It would be a waste of time.
Two dead teachers and that little pos also shot his grandmother in the face.
And 19 children.
He didn't even have the guts to shoot up his HS. I mean it was his HS where he experienced bullying and then he goes and slaughters second graders at an elementary school..
Fourth graders.
That changes everything.
Thought that you would want to be accurate.
Yes, actually. Thanks. Someone I was talking to IRL said" a room full of second graders. do you know how small a second grader is?" and it stuck with me.
All gun lovers need to look in the mirror.
Why is that John?
7, 8 and 9 year olds in that school. None older.
The love of guns is what causes these things. Most mass shooters are fascinated by guns.
Is that part of the FBI profile?
Most mass shooters are make, and either single at the time of shooting, or divorced or separated. [Deleted. Completely uncalled for.]
[Deleted]
False narratives such as this is what perpetuates these things, John. When progressives take away the solid ground no society can exist without you're going to see things like this. How, exactly, is anyone supposed to know what's right or wrong when progressives say there is no right or wrong but, rather, one's own truth? Welcome to diversity, John.
Someone just said on tv that America has 4 % of the world's population and 42% of its privately owned guns.
Does that sound like a good idea to you?
More guns do NOT make the society more safe. America has proven that over and over and over again.
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[deleted]
get lost
[deleted]
[deleted]
You won't respond to me and in this case I am glad of that. Diversity is what this country wrought. Only a bunch of stupid people would demonize diversity and choose to 'prefer' guns over godly, good, and innocent men, women, and children. Some of those dead children littering our nation's tragic gun catalog are highly likely god's 'own' seeing that Texas, Florida, and Alabama, and Mississippi are on the long list.
But do not bother with a response to a liberal Christian, because as you have told me often enough I am part of the problem with this country.
[deleted]
Here's a thought. Answer your own questions.
[deleted]
I did, a week ago after Buffalo,
My modest proposal was:
The one that asked me for this never replied.
I know that your proposal is to shame shooters. How?
To all involved: Thread clean up again. I'm going to start giving out big points
John. Suppose we eliminate every last privately owned gun in America. And, instead of shooting people, people started stabbing people to death with knives. So, we eliminate all the knives. Now they switch to hammers and beat people to death. Eliminate hammers. Mow down a bunch of people with your car? Eliminate cars. At what point are you going to stop and wonder, maybe it's people and not the tools they use, that just might be the problem?
At what point are you going to say, "maybe diversity isn't the best idea?" That teaching kids in school that their "feelings" aren't the arbiter of what is true and what isn't? That promoting racist ideas like 'reparations' and that a given portion of society is defined by their skin color aren't conductive to a healthy society?
At what point are you going to wonder that maybe there's a standard that applies to everyone and that perhaps the best idea is to raise society on those principles? Nah. That's crazy.
It would be monumentally rare for someone to kill 20 people by stabbing them to death. It's kind of difficult, just from the fact that while you were stabbing one the others would run away. Most can outrun a knife. No one can out run a bullet.
[Deleted]
Yeah, knives are bad examples. A better example is a bomb or a vehicle. An even better example (but horrible) is biological contamination. As time progresses, effective methods (even better than guns) become more accessible to ordinary nutcases.
The problem, ultimately, are the nutcases. Nutcases who seek to mass murder will find a method to do so.
There is no better method than guns in a gun love culture.
Do you seriously believe this 18 year old would have planted a bomb in a 4th grade class ?
We have gun lovers and ammophobes.
People of color did not define themselves by their skin color, the dominant white society did. If you dont understand that it calls your whole perspective into question.
How do most self-identify?
I have no evidence that would lead me to believe what this nutcase would have done if he did not have access to guns. But I do have evidence that leads me to believe that this nutcase intended to murder kids.
But Congress. Busy busting each others 'chops' and having internal 'squirmishes' and 'wars.'
I condemn this comment on its face.
I see. Then, it isn't the deaths, per se, that bothers you but, rather, the method. You're okay with just a few deaths as long as it isn't by guns? What, exactly, would be the threshold for you, John? Let's see. Mass shootings are categorized as four or more victims, if I recall correctly. So, if someone manages only three with a knife, no problem?
You see, or more likely, you don't, taking away the guns doesn't do a damn thing for the problem. What is making people do these things? But you don't seem to care. Just take the guns and, problem solved. Right?
You're speaking in past tense, John. How about speaking in present tense? If you do that, your argument fails miserably.
Of course you do.
Ever heard of a pipe bomb. They don't need to be planted- just lite the fuse and it will explode.
More creative people can come up with even better bombs. Internet is a great thing, even for wackos, to find out new and fascinating things- like how to build a better bomb.
Yep - still the record I think for school killings
You are talking complete nonsense. Mass killers dont want to use knives. If they wanted to use knives they would use knives. There is a thrill they find in spraying high velocity bullets into a group of people.
Guess who's on your side in all this Drakkonis? Does this make you proud?
Marjorie Taylor Greene takes pro-gun stance following Texas school shooting: 'We don't need more gun control. We need to return to God.'
Thats pretty much exactly what you said elsewhere on this seed.
You are aligned with Marjorie Taylor Greene. Congratulations.
LOL.
These killers dont want to use pipe bombs on schools. Keep your imagination flowing though.
Well, if nutcases are the ultimate problem, why do we seem to have a disproportionate share of nutcases here in the US?
Is it the water? Too much sugar? Not enough corporal punishment?
If all it takes is a nutcase and not a nutcase with a gun, why do the nutcases with guns seem to keep popping up in my newsfeed? They Kill people...
Murderous intent without a means to complete the crime is simply wishful thinking on a madman's part.
Standing O
Did you read it? Or just stalking and trolling me...................again?
OOH OOH OOH I know the answer!!!!!!!!!
Good question. What causes someone to decide to mass murder others? Do they find a gun and decide that it should not be wasted?
As I noted earlier, someone with murderous intent could easily produce a small bomb. The could alternatively run their car into the playground, set fire to the building or poison the water. If someone wants to kill a bunch of kids (as an example) there are plenty of ways of doing it other than using guns.
Maybe guns are more satisfying? Hard to say since I am not a nutcase.
Who knows, maybe if modern games were not focused on guns we would see fewer people who are apparently desensitized to murdering people with guns.
Thanks for replying!
I don't know. I think that part of the reason is muzzle flash. Maybe it's just the act of doing something physically makes them feel (somewhat paradoxically) powerful.
I think that we need to look at society and what is being taught by (or, it might be better stated, learned from) the examples set by parents and cultural role models.
But really, I think that the answer that nobody wants to propose is restricting the availability of guns in general. Yes, someone can build a bomb, but I really do not think it as likely or as easy as getting a gun.
There are too many guns in circulation. So the problem of someone illegally getting a gun is rather big. In this case, however, the guns were legally purchased. That is something we can address. And, as I have suggested, I think mandatory certification by a licensed organization (whose license is affected by the behavior of those they certify) and personal sponsorship by a licensed gun-owner (to systemically involve real human beings who know the candidate) are examples of measures we could indeed implement.
If I have not replied to prior comments from you that is simply an oversight on my part ... absolutely NOT intentional.
Actually, considering the quote, I do agree with her on this particular subject. We've already got gun control up the wazoo. What we need to do is enforce the laws we've already got, stop letting people out on bond who violate them and prosecute them instead. Also, it's hardly a secret that I think that, as a society, we'd do well to return to God. I think nothing would do more to stop these shootings than returning to God.
As to being aligned with her, what you're actually attempting to do is rather infantile. Essentially, "You don't want to be associated with her, do you? So you'd better change your tune to one more acceptable to me or I'm going to smear you with that association."
Another way in which this is infantile is that it sets up Greene as some sort of ultimate boogyman, or woman in this case. Greene said it so whatever it was she said must be wrong because we all know she's a nut case. Responding to anything someone you don't like in such a fashion is the practice of small children, not adults, so pardon me if I'm not bothered by your comment about alignment.
I think he was trying to sound profound. It did not work.
I like your ideas. I've thought that mandatory insurance would be a good thing for gun owners.
[Deleted]
What is your idea ... what does the insurance cover?
I can support that but not sure of psychological checks. What does that mean?
Nothing like going for the sweeping generalization.
Something like 100 million gun owners managed to not commit murder today. They have nothing to be ashamed of.
Who is responsible for blocking responsible gun laws? Why don't we taking guns away from all the mental patients and drug addicts and domestic abusers who should not have the guns they do? Can't we do anything?
Is that in the FBI profile of mass shooters? Was Salvador Ramos part of the 'right'?
Please cite your source.
[Deleted]
What does the 'right' have to do with a Hispanic kid shooting Hispanic kids in school?
It is more likely that Salvador Ramos was socially isolated, may have had a mental illness, and experienced trauma growing up.
His motives was likely nonpolitical. He probably didn't describe himself as having a particular political motivation.
Too many people confuse partisanship with logic.
Steve Kerr, who last night demanded new gun laws to keep kids safe, protested to demand the removal of all armed police from schools two years go.
Politicians and lobbyists, not regular people. You can say they should vote for different people, but voters cast a ballot for many reasons, and they can’t control every little thing a politician does once they’re in office.
Responsible gun laws actually have wide, bipartisan support among regular people (even gun owners), but most proposed gun laws are not responsible and don’t address actual problems. They tend to be high on posturing, but low on real-life impact.
We actually have laws that do a lot of this. For example, we have had the Lautenberg Amendment for 25 years. Under that federal law, a person convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence (though weirdly only misdemeanors) loses their gun ownership rights for life - and that includes just transporting a gun. Many state and local jurisdictions have similar or more severe laws like this.
Lunatics often manage to find weapons in spite of existing law.
So since lunatics are clever and devious and able to exploit loopholes like mouse and snakes can squeeze into the narrowest of places, eventually it becomes the power of the gun that needs control. But, I digress, because it ain't going to happen yet. This nation still has an insufferable paranoid component of people who think that the Other is winning and it must be ready to use overwhelming power accordingly. Thus, our country is "gun ready.'
Gun rights advocates have offered their thoughts and prayers. /s.
Time to holster that and pull the trigger on finally addressing our national disgrace.
You mean Joe Biden and the Democrat Party?
All for it.
Leave it to those jackasses to politicize this tragedy w/o having any facts.
Midterms can't get here quick enough to start the process.
The author knows little about the American voter or wolves.
Not to mention the left using it in reaction to a what if scenario.
Yeah, what if the woman and educators and the decent people left in America have finally had enough of mass murders in America?
Why see woman and educators as separate from decent people? I think that they had enough years ago. The harder question is what to do about it.
Then they should step up and do something about it aside from blaming an inanimate object. Stop going bat shit stupid over what if scenarios.
Then maybe they need to direct their attention to democrat run cities and states where most of them occur.....mostly black on black.
[Deleted]
Once again....
You being the only one that can hear it.
Black on Black crime did not occur in Texas. So what is your point for bringing it up?
[Deleted]
How do you confuse an insult with a defense?
Are we going to have to listen to the craven Republican politicians again say that this is not the right time to discuss what needs to be done to remedy this terrible problem?
How is that any different that Democrat politicians who spout off with ideas that won't make much difference in how the world works? I agree that something needs to be done but it's always the same actions from each side, the Democrats want to ban "assault" rifles and the Republicans don't want to infringe on the rights of the millions of lawful citizens who also own guns.
The Democratic politicians want to find solutions. The Republican politicians send thoughts and prayers.
It's a huge difference.
No, one side believe in taking no action.
What solutions have Democrat politicians presented outside of banning "assault" rifles or the expansion from a few to ban all guns?
What you just said is utter nonsense. Democrats and others have offered many proposals that do not involve banning all guns.
And with that I'll be logging off.
The immediate politicizing of a tragedy is sickening.
When your fist instinct when finding about the murder of kids is to get online and attack Republicans......
“…it's always the same…”
So families will bury their children, lives forever shattered, and the apologists will have their say thinking nothing of the human costs, for if they had an ounce of compassion, they would at the very least acknowledge those that suffer in their tone deaf polemics.
Universal background checks and limiting magazine capacity, to list two.
Name one Democratic politician who has called for banning all guns.
Name one Republican politician who has proposed any solution at all.
My first instinct is set forth in my Comment 7, below, which is the first comment I wrote on this seed.
Your first instinct was to engage in an unfounded personal attack. How typical of you.
Bye
Leave your thoughts and prayers behind as you leave.
Bullshit. Democrats continue to push for banning assault weapons so as to give the appearance of doing something, but that ban didn't do much the first time it was enacted.
If Democrats want to do something, then it's high time they actually come up with some bi-partisan legislation that will have traction from both sides of the aisle or it's the usual partisan deflection. You want to do something, put some teeth behind the reporting requirements to the NICS system to help reduce the possibility of someone buying a gun who should not have one. You want to do something, help stop judges and district attorneys from plea bargaining away gun crime and to stop releasing violent criminals to the streets. You want to do something, let's work on fixing the laws around mental health so that those who need the help can get the help, and stop hiding it all behind HIPPA rules.
Hell, the only suggestion that came out of the Democrats after the Buffalo shooting was to re-pass the assault weapons ban bill.
Universal background checks allow the federal government to get involved in intra-state commerce, something they are forbidden to do. Concern about typical government creep should cause concern for all people here, once the feds are involved in intra-state commerce what do they take on next? Magazine capacity has been banned in some states, hasn't make that big of a difference.
Maxine Waters
Steve Scalise
"The Democratic politicians want to find solutions."
The gun grabber Dems want registration followed by confiscation
Link?
Link?
Salvador Ramos, right wing, white supremacist.
What remedy will Joe Biden propose?
What do you propose?
Banning trolls.
So nothing constructive, no surprise there.
I don't answer for Biden. He has made proposals in the past, and he will probably have some in the future.
Also killed his grandmother.
He should send a draft bill to the Hill.
Name one problem on the left.
Said Democrat politicians do not even know the difference between a assault weapon and a assault rifle. To them, any semi automatic rifle constitutes a assault rifle.
How many other first world countries have a couple mass shootings in schools or churchs or grocery stores or restaurants every month?
All "conservatives" can do is whine about their gun rights. It is here on this very seed. It's disgusting.
There are 400 million guns in this country, and there is no way they can all be taken out of circulation even if we wanted to. Either the gun love culture changes or we will have these massacres over and over again.
All you can do is whine about conservatives whining. It’s disgusting. Man up and make a proposal.
Yes. Listen up: Mitch McConnell is somewhere right now busy 'warbling.' And Kevin McCarthy is ducking a question somewheres as he dials in a Trump 'response.'
What is Joe Biden proposing?
He is doing a whataboutism in an attempt to dilute the discussion. It's a specious argument, meant to redirect the discussion away from outrage, despair, and how blatantly ridiculous we are as a country that wants to dominate the world but can't rule over gun power. Can't stop shooting itself in the ass. And now guns kill children and not enough people give a damn apparently.
'Tons' of talking heads on television talking about. . .guns.'
Maybe, somebody could write a hit song about it:
Why are you even posting? None of your "sentence" deals with the subject.
It's a waste of time. All meant to take your attention away from the sorrow of loss. It all goes like some morbid 'recipe for mass murder disaster.' Here is what you do: (1.) ....
Don't give them the satisfaction, please.
Alright John - you do a lot of bitch'n/moan'n but you NEVER - repeat - NEVER offer any type of positive solution.
Quit complaining and start doing something.
Don't worry about it. Take your emotion and attention off me. Look around somewhere else as usual.
What are you doing to strengthen the conversation?
One week ago you asked:
I answered:
I don't have the quick, short, single solutions like you do. I wouldn't overstate the problem either. Mass shootings as compared to US shootings are still rare, accounting for maybe 1% of deaths from firearm violence. What can be done might include:
You never replied or provided your own thoughts. Are you unable to have a discussion on this topic?
I have already said what my solution is. We have a culture of gun love in this country. That gun love culture is why people like this 18 year old kid think it is a good idea to shoot up a school. We as a people need to destroy this gun love culture. No other country on earth that is a first world democracy has this sort of random gun violence.
Why does it happen here , and so often? Because we have a culture that encourages people to think that guns will solve their problems. The horrible truth is there is no legislation that can stop this now. We have let it go too far. There are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation, and they are not going out of circulation anytime soon.
My solution , which I heard Michael Moore say a few minutes ago and I agree with, is that we treat guns like the "cigarettes " of the 21st century. Cigarettes are not illegal and yet we were able to lower cigarette use drastically through societal condemnation. Gun love should meet the same fate.
Are we going to have to listen to the craven Republican politicians.
If you change the batteries in your remote you can turn your TV off and not listen to anything you don't want to.
I'm sure that it is worth repeating.
Do you have a proposal or just a shout for them to get off of your lawn?
Exactly, I quit, many quit but today's smokers didn't. Do you think that shooters give a shit about your condemnation?
I heard the same comment by Michael.Moore about making guns the cigarettes of the 21st century. He is so right.
It would not be done overnight, but we could make the use of guns other than for hunting and competitive shooting socially verboten.
In the meantime we have to suffer through your snark and trolling on an article about the death of 18 children.
I never used a gun for anything else except when I was in Kuwait.
If that's true, you have no idea what real suffering is.
Michael is a man before his time.
More guns sales likely result from inter-state commerce rather than intra-state commerce. If somehow intra-state commerce becomes an issue, which I don't believe it is, state laws could provide a work around.
I don't accept that limiting magazine capacity isn't beneficial.
When you get something passable in the states and congress (you know those obstructors on the right you plow here daily) let me in on that please. Otherwise, I am unmoved by your 'displays.'
Do you ever think before you type or do you just insist on inflicting everyone with your stream of consciousness ?
Huh?
I'm sorry that you feel inflicted. I know that you are angry and frustrated by this, but I don't know what specifically you want the President and Congress to do.
Says the seeder that applied partisan politics to this story before even politicians did……
When I? Are you remaining a bystander?
I plow?
I provided a few proposals, sorry that they didn't move you. I'm unmoved by your lack of any proposals.
Were there any good guys with guns there when the shooting started and why couldnt they prevent it?
Why do you call that a political statement?
The rationale, or one of them , for so many guns is that they are needed to prevent things like what happened today. has that plan worked?
Many schools don't want cops or teachers armed on campus.
This is just part of the story:
Aside from the illegal market, guns are often manufactured in one state and legally transported across state lines for sale in another state.
So what do you want the federal government to do?
Your comments speak for themselves.
I’m not sure why they didn’t participate, perhaps because it’s such a small town and they didn’t anticipate anything like that ever happening.
Bingo!
Everything possible.
Universal background checks, limiting magazine capacity and reinstating the assault weapons ban would be a good start.
Does an 18 year old, or for that matter any civilian, who isn't in the military need a weapon of war?
Don’t most mass shooters pass these?
Our war on drugs failed, why wouldn’t a war on magazines fail as well?
What criteria do you propose?
This is an old 'saw,' Drinker. Don't expect me to solve gun violence in this country and I won't expect you to either-since its meaningless to a conservative congress. Have a nice evening. Yawn. Gun violence is 'regular' news now. Conservatives have left that 'door' open in the country.
Your very first comment was sick joke about it
Some do, but not all. Is that a valid reason not to have background checks? Of course not. Experts state they are beneficial.
Those are two completely different things. Why would limiting magazine capacity fail to provide protection from gun violence?
I don't. I will leave it to people more knowledgeable than me to provide the specifics. I do know that when we had an assault weapons ban, we had less gun violence, and since the ban expired, we have had more.
Thread 5.3 was removed for constant trolling and irrelevant comments. Any further behavior like this will be treated severely.
You are contradicting your own proposal.
Who died and made you district attorney?
I have no issue with background checks, which mass shootings would they have prevented?
If you can’t stop illegal, dangerous drugs from being sold, how do you stop magazines?
No, I just don’t think that it will be very effective.
Beats me.
what makes you think i was joking?
But of course, it escapes notice that Congress are the professionals detailed in the constitution to look out for the welfare and safety of the U.S. citizenry. It is all of their elected and collective responsibilities. And what do those pathetic folks do: look out for the funding from gun lobbyists-men and women who are not elected at all to look out for ordinary rank and file citizens.
Though it is ridiculous on its face to realize that gun lobbyists and gun manufacturers live in this country too right beside us. One would think they would worry about what could happen in a random shootout in their areas of the country. But, to be clear, I do not wish anything bad or wrong to anybody!
That said, didn't I read once several years ago that conservatives in congress voted to not allow for something like a lawful class action suit against gun manufacturers and gun lobbyists (related to gun violence)?
If yes, then it speaks volumes about how off-base constitutionally congress as a sitting body is in performance of its constitutional duties. The people are exposed to the tyranny of the people's representative bodies.
Who controls Congress again?
Who do you think, Greg? Give it a 'shot.'
What do you believe?
But federal law already covers inter-state commerce. If you purchase a gun from another state, by law that gun must be shipped to a licensed dealer in your state and you must meet all laws and undergo the NICS background check before you can purchase and take the gun.
That's why I would rather see some teeth put into the reporting requirements. We've had high-profile shootings that when traced back it was discovered that the person should not have been allowed to purchase the gun but the reporting agency did not forward the information to NICS so the background check when thru clear.
Didn't say it may not be beneficial, but it hasn't made that much of a difference as it doesn't take all that long to swap out a magazine.
Except a straw purchase of a gun is not a legal sale. When you as a private person goes to sell a gun to another person in state there are requirements that you are to follow.
A person who purchases guns in one state, transports them to another state and then just sells them to anybody is not performing a legal sale. Hell, they broke the law when they first purchased the guns because one of the questions on the ATF 4473 is are you purchasing this gun for someone else.
John, there are huge numbers of law abiding lawfully carrying gun owners in this country, myself included, who have never harmed anyone. Your comment above sounds like you are trying to lump all gun owners into the same heap and tar them all with the same brush then take them all away. Legal and responsible gun ownership and the reasons for said ownership are all across the political and social spectrum. This is not just a conservative right Republican issue as you seem to be implying and a lot of liberal Democrats are gun owners as well. This country needs to enforce existing laws instead of continuously trying to make new laws.
I agree with you that there should be stronger enforcement.
No, you didn't. Any benefit provided could save lives.
That may be the case in certain instances, but I don't think that is a reason not to limit magazine capacity.
That is absolutely correct. Is the enforcement mechanism sufficient?
Nope, not when you have DA's who refuse to prosecute or who refuse to prosecute because they feel forcing a felon to answer the question is entrapment. IMO there are insufficient prosecutions for those who lie on the form.
That needs to change, doesn't it?
Good copy/paste
One, a sister-in-law.
I think that’s better than offering blame at people who had nothing to do with it.
How often have I just woken to hear the news headlines...
There has been yet another mass school shooting in the States..
To many....to many..
This is sad beyond belief.
The true American Carnage.
What kind of a future is our country facing?
You know as well as I that your country's future is predictable. The Second Amendment will never be reversed because it is the backbone of the gun-lovers. The NRA and its powerful lobbyists supported by the gun manufacturers and its powerful lobbyists are powers not to be trifled with. You have seen the "pooh-poohs" of the gun supporters in their comments on this very article.
The best argument that the gun-lovers use is that guns are needed by law-abiding citizens for protection against criminals, so with tongue-in-cheek I suggested more than once that guns and ammunition should be distributed to every American over the age of 12, along with required training in their use, after they pass a stringent mental health examination. Then let's see how many mass gun murders there can be. I just heard that there have already been 212 mass gun murders in the USA this year (2022),
I just heard that American children are safer in schools than they are on the street or even in their own homes. So I ask everyone to close their eyes, and picture their child or grandchild in school, when a crazed shooter enters and kills a bunch of children INCLUDING YOUR CHILD OR GRANDCHILD. Try to picture your grief. Now, how does THAT make you feel about "the right to bear arms"? Is that more important than the lives of your children or grandchildren?
18 year old shot his grandmother then shot in the school. High school kid. How can people not recognize troubled kids. They don't pay attention that's how. And we will never know the motive as the coward is dead.
One thing no one wants to address is mental health.
What they don't want to address is the addiction to guns. Of course, if you are coming to a realization that there is something mentally wrong with you that shooting people resolves you are going to use what limited intelligence you have to throw people off until you are ready to 'come out.' However, long or short-lived that lasts.
Maybe some treatment clinics or groups like AA would help.
Apparently, Salvador Ramos wasn't "reading to come out".
"One thing no one wants to address is mental health."
Or poor raising of kids by parents who don't have time, resources, too busy or don't know what they are doing
Or parents who should not have had kids in the first place
Or effects of overpopulation
And the kid that just gets left behind
It just staggers me they even think to go and do this..what is their supposed reasoning??
What on earth have these little kids ever done to them...I just don't grasp it and to be honest I just feel plain sick this morning..🥀🥀🥀
Shona1, I am sorry for your experiences with our national stupidity. We're. . .fine over here being dumb asses who have the best and most exceptional guns the world has ever seen and we may get better after a while in how to care for people—or not. Try to feel better okay?
Any sense of shock at America's ongoing tragedy has left the building along with the vapidity of 'thoughts and prayers'.
I suspect that there will be a lot of thoughts and prayers and nothing will be done, again.
It just seems to go on and on...has it now turned into some sick and ghastly competition, to go down in history with the most numbers of students murdered??
I was just watching a video last night of a Student Protection Officer dancing with high school students as he was leaving.
It was great to see and then I thought how bloody sad you basically need cops at the schools now to protect students??
Hope we never go down that path...
In the US we have failed our children, we are unable to keep them safe.
And that is truly heart breaking...💔💔
We are not safe, but that's nothing new. We're socially and politically a stunted nation.
When have we ever been safer?
As a small silver lining I just read on another article that the shooter died
I do have a theory as to why guns are SO important to America and Americans. America is the "Policeman of the World", a nation with a history of starting or joining or defending against wars around the world for years. In order for its ability to build its armed forces to take part in such wars and to threaten its ability and/or intention to do so and be believable as a credible threat, Americans, from childhood on, must learn to love and cherish guns and their right to own and use them in order to build the mentality of loving using guns, of considering them to be a necessity in order to champion The American Way.
I think that is part of it. I think there is a better explanation though. America has always seen itself as a "frontier" country, and individualism is paramount on the frontier. We dont have the faith in collective security that other countries have.
The Colt 45 tamed the wild west after all.
It appears that the "Wild West" has not yet been tamed.
And conservatives 'swear' that the time will come when they have to 'take the country back' from the Other. It's dominant culture think: "You will not replace us." Understood as: 'We got these here big ole guns stacked up the 'wazoo'! Just the imagery of that buys 'mileage.' (At least the thinking goes.)
Any shooter who survives should get a quick trial, review and then be publicly hung at the site of the crime. Make it happen in 6 weeks or less. No exceptions,
Most states ended Capital Punishment years ago, where have you been?
Twenty seven states allow capital punishment.
https://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/death-penalty.aspx#:~:text=Capital%20punishment%20is%20currently%20authorized,government%20and%20the%20U.S.%20military.
and that is a big part of the problem, Did not have much of these shootings when they knew what they would get.
make it a federal crime and the execution certain, swift and public
If that were true why did it not work in Texas?
The perp was killed BTW. That is swift justice.
Only 18 have carried out executions in the last 20 years.
Make what a federal crime?
BTW, the federal government has executed about 15 folks in 50 years.
I think there are more that deserve it.
Have you written your Congressperson, Senator and President?
Maybe it would have prevented it if that had been done to previous shooters and it was known that was the penalty with no exceptions.
I will do that but the President we have now and my 2 Senators are useless
It should also be televised.
I agree,
Make it a pay per view event. Tune in Friday night, execution at 6:00 PM Pacific Standard Time. I'd pay money for that.
I also wonder if the one who did the shooting was really wanted by his parents? Did they have the time, resources, desire and ability to properly raise him?
I wonder what Grandma did to the boy.
Evening Drinker..maybe she was trying to stop him when she realised what he was going to do...or he told her.
Guess we will never know now..
Good evening shona. We roll under another unthinkable tragedy. We remain a paralyzed, ineffectual, and divided country.
Apparently, Grandma didn’t love Salvador enough.
Makes it so much worse when you start seeing photos....and putting names to faces of the little lost souls...🥀🥀🥀🥀
This tragedy does put things into some perspective.
I support the 2nd amendment.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
But apparently I have a different interpretation of "well regulated" than many conservatives who seem to reject any regulation and want to hand out guns as door prizes or when you open a new checking account at the bank.
Anyone with more than half a brain should have no problem with universal gun registration and sensible gun regulation. And I know the conservative excuse of "well that won't stop criminals from getting guns" is often used to counter sensible gun regulation, if a universal background check stopped even one school shooting or saved even one life, it would be worth any supposed "hassle" of universal registration that law abiding gun owners would have to go through when buying guns.
The only folk I can think of, other than criminals and psychos, that would oppose such sensible gun regulation are those who are stockpiling their own bunker with weapons of war for what they see as some civil war they believe they'll have to fight to "take back their nation". They're nothing but Rambo wannabe ammosexuals who clearly get off thinking about all the people they could shoot with their military style assault rifles. This love of guns mentality is far beyond simple home protection, sport and hunting.
Simple sensible gun regulations will not destroy the 2nd amendment. Requiring universal gun registration, safety courses, background checks, mental health checks, limits on assault rifles, magazine sizes and bump stocks is not to much to ask for if it saves even one grade school child from being gunned down in another senseless act of gun violence.
"... different interpretation of "well regulated"..."
supplied, issued, provisioned, furnished, stocked, kitted, provided, brought, equipped
The adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training. See Johnson 1619 (“Regulate”: “To adjust by rule or method”); Rawle 121–122; cf. Va. Declaration of Rights §13 (1776), in 7 Thorpe 3812, 3814 (referring to “a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms".
Sadly there is obviously no proper discipline and training needed to buy weapons of war in this country. Even justice Scalia admitted that the 2nd amendment is not unlimited, we do already ban, limit and/or regulate the sale of military weapons, explosives, chemical weapons, biological weapons and WMD's. So regardless of the definition of "well regulated", supporting sensible gun laws like universal background checks clearly does not violate the 2nd amendment as anyone with more than half a brain understands.
These conservatives here are obstructionists fanning out on the internet to obfuscate and dumb down discussion. How do I know this? I applaud your @18.
These conservatives will not keep liberals safe, they want us subjugated (in one manner or another). They will not protect their 'own' safe from gun violence. Rather tell them to 'carry' everywhere they go at home and in public. ("Dodge City.") Conservatives in congress (little "c") won't keep the citizenry safe even as they take our tax dollars to spend on 'luxury' items and foreign extremes. We are not safe.
And a funny thing happened in Texas yesterday, 19 children were in school doing what the adult "leadership" of Texas and their parents told them to do - to be safe in school. They were not safe. They are in the morgue. Their teachers are there with them. Why? Because Texas is not safe! Here is the funny part, Texas has for all intends and purposes a "ban" on abortion. . . more kids born in Texas? Won't they be unsafe too?
You have an odd sense of humor.
There are moments we laugh to keep from crying.
Or screaming.
I see that you’re doubling your fun.
And you have a passion for understatement, but who's counting?
I've noticed that you rarely care for metrics.
I so
Wonder where he got the money to buy the guns?
Did anybody catch what the POS O'Rouke did?
"Texas Democratic gubernatorial hopeful Beto O’Rourke shocked Twitter when he interrupted Governor Greg Abbott, R-Texas, and other Texas lawmakers during a press conference about the horrific Uvalde, Texas school shooting.
Conservatives were outraged at Beto O’Rourke ’s exhibition. Washington Times columnist Tim Young brutalized the politician, tweeting, "Beto O'Rourke always dances on the graves of shooting victims to advance his political career... today was his worst stunt yet. He's trash."
What a rotten POS!
Regardless of this stunt, Beto O'Rourke has always been undesirable. He is the quintessential career politician. We need fewer O'Rourkes and more Condoleeza Rice's. Trouble is, we keep growing the O'Rourkes and disuading the Rice's from even running.
Beatoff? The guy who was coming for Ars, then was just kidding, and is now against anything made of metal? That asshole?
Please spare me the sanctimonious bull patty, Vic. I am glad O'Rourke stood up to the "thoughts and prayers" platform of white faces with those accents. It was necessary that somebody come forward and at the least initiate calling out the farce that was Texas at that moment. I had the volume down and only turned it up when I realized there was 'commotion' in the room. Interestingly enough, the 'talking points' shared by the governor was what had ALREADY been shared on NT a day before! Odd. Maybe not.
I told you all we see you. You are a collective and you are one 'voice' and that takes coordination.
O'Rourke did the right thing. It is no matter that he got shouted down, because sometimes it takes that to make the proper point: To make it stick!
What point did Beto make?
Since you had “the volume down”, how do you know what Abbott was saying?
You're forgetting that conservatives believe they at least are owed a participation trophy...
Okay, smarty pants, how could I know? Maybe I was listening UNTIL I TURNED IT DOWN, and since I have COMCAST DVR I used the feature to rewind and listen. I hope that answers your 'concern.'
Yea maybe.
You might want to replay it again, I heard Abbott discussing the importance of mental health and the impact that this shooting can have on survivors, friends and family of victims and police officers. He then read a list of agencies and services available. I didn't hear, " he 'talking points' that you referenced. Was that in a different part of the news conference?
You don't know what a 'talking point' is. Go figure. How good are you at any of this?
Perhaps not.
Not very, but if I stay here and keep reading you, I’ll get better. Never as good at any of it as you, but better than before.
He thought he said tots and pears and it made him hungry.
Love that deadpan delivery. Now go - re-immerse in this topic.
I'll try to do my best.
Outraged? They're certainly not outraged when the assault rifles they're so fucking in love with are used, again, in another mass shooting of children. It took years and a civil court case to finally get some fucking moron conservatives to accept that the Sandy Hook school shooting wasn't some liberal progressive false flag operation.
It's only when conservatives are desperate to avoid the negative spotlight when they start accusing anyone of asking them questions about their clearly sexual attraction to guns that they start accusing liberals and progressives of being anti-2nd amendment constitution haters.
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Holy shit!
"T he husband of one of the teachers killed in a Texas school shooting this week collapsed and died on Thursday while preparing for his wife's funeral, the family said.
Joe Garcia had been married to high school sweetheart, Irma Garcia, for 24 years before she was gunned down Tuesday at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.
“I don’t even know how to feel. I don’t believe it. I don’t want to believe it” that Joe Garcia has passed away, Irma Garcia's nephew, John Martinez, told NBC News."
The husband of one of the two murdered teachers has died from a heart attack. Four children have lost both parents in a short span of time.