If you put god over country, then you are un-American. Of course there is no god, so it's actually country first. Period. Unless of course you are a republican, then it's Party first, country second and bullshiting the religiousness people into thinking you give a shit third.

why don't we just put it to music...

There ya go...

Maybe you will like this one better....

Of Course your ideals are about as old as this song is.

Enjoy

I guess we aught to get ready for the NEW Crusades right?

The article and the actions of the Baptist ministers are a joke, right!!

God First, Then Country

Really?

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

The so-called "freedom of religion" does not entitle religiosity to trump (how 'bout dat?) the Constitution; if you think about it which clearly you don't while the Constitution provides for amendments, it does not and cannot eliminate itself in the world of Reality, that is.

give it the same unyielding reverence you boys give to the 2nd Amendment why don't ya'?

''emperor Obama'', more of your pure nonsense XX. You should get a new act, this one is wearing pretty thin. LOLOL, your credibility is non existent. I thought that you'd call SCOTUS ''jack boot thugs''.

Damn, the founders are rolling in their graves right about now.

The First Commandment and the First Amendment, though somewhat similar

are not, XX.

NOT!

Here is some knowledge to fill your vast deficiency thereof it's free although you must "bring your own container," which will be filled to overflowing be it a bucket or a thimble.

Here are 35 quotes from the Founding Fathers. Perhaps your first thoughts are the first four Presidents and maybe Benjamin Franklin, but there were many other Founding Fathers. Many were signers of the US Constitution and The Declaration of Independence. They were lawyers, judges, soldiers, merchants, farmers, and some were even clergy. And the great majority of them signed the Constitution knowing that matters of government and matters of religion would be separate.

1.If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

2.Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792

3.We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a mans religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

4.The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
~John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America 1787-1788

5.The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams

6.Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.
~Founding Father John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America (1787-88)

7.We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance forhonors and power we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society.
~Founding FatherJohn Adams, letter to Dr. Price, April 8, 1785

8.I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

9.In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814

10.Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.
~Founding FatherThomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

11.I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
~Founding FatherThomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

12.History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
~Founding FatherThomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

13.Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every persons life, freedom of religion affects every individual.

State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the wall of separation between church and state, therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society. We have solved the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
~Founding FatherThomas Jefferson: in a speech to the Virginia Baptists, 1808

14.Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
~Founding FatherThomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,

15.The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.
~Founding FatherJames Madison, 1819, Writings, 8:432, quoted from Gene Garman, Essays In Addition to Americas Real Religion

16.And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.
~Founding FatherJames Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

17.Every new and successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance.
~Founding FatherJames Madison, letter, 1822

18.Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.
~Founding FatherJames Madison; Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical
Endowments

19. It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising the sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin. Let us, then, look to the great cause, and endeavor to preserve it in full force. Let us by all wise and constitutional measures promote intelligence among the people as the best means of preserving our liberties.
~Founding FatherJames Monroe, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1817

20.When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil power, its a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
~Founding FatherBenjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

21.Manufacturers, who listening to the powerful invitations of a better price for their fabrics, or their labor, of greater cheapness of provisions and raw materials, of an exemption from the chief part of the taxes burdens and restraints, which they endure in the old world, of greater personal independence and consequence, under the operation of a more equal government, and of what is far more precious than mere religious tolerationa perfect equality of religious privileges; would probably flock from Europe to the United States to pursue their own trades or professions, if they were once made sensible of the advantages they would enjoy, and were inspired with an assurance of encouragement and employment, will, with difficulty, be induced to transplant themselves, with a view to becoming cultivators of the land.
~Founding FatherAlexander Hamilton: Report on the Subject of Manufacturers December 5,
1791

22. In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced, and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind.
~Samuel Adams, The Rights of the Colonists (1771)

23.That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forebearance, love, and charity towards each other.
~Founding FatherGeorge Mason, Virginia Bill of Rights, 1776

24.It is contrary to the principles of reason and justice that any should be compelled to contribute to the maintenance of a church with which their consciences will not permit them to join, and from which they can derive no benefit; for remedy whereof, and that equal liberty as well religious as civil, may be universally extended to all the good people of this commonwealth.
~Founding FatherGeorge Mason, Virginia Declaration of Rights, 1776

25.A man of abilities and character, of any sect whatever, may be admitted to any office or public trust under the United States. I am a friend to a variety of sects, because they keep one another in order. How many different sects are we composed of throughout the United States? How many different sects will be in congress? We cannot enumerate the sects that may be in congress. And there are so many now in the United States that they will prevent the establishment of any one sect in prejudice to the rest, and will forever oppose all attempts to infringe religious liberty. If such an attempt be made, will not the alarm be sounded throughout America? If congress be as wicked as we are foretold they will, they would not run the risk of exciting the resentment of all, or most of the religious sects in America.
~Founding FatherEdmund Randolph, address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June
10, 1788

26.I never liked the Hierarchy of the Church an equality in the teacher of Religion, and a dependence on the people, are republican sentiments but if the Clergy combine, they will have their influence on Government
~Founding FatherRufus King, Rufus King: American Federalist, pp. 56-57

27.A general toleration of Religion appears to me the best means of peopling our country The free exercise of religion hath stocked the Northern part of the continent with inhabitants; and altho Europe hath in great measure adopted a more moderate policy, yet the profession of Protestantism is extremely inconvenient in many places there. A Calvinist, a Lutheran, or Quaker, who hath felt these inconveniences in Europe, sails not to Virginia, where they are felt perhaps in a (greater degree).
~Patrick Henry, observing that immigrants flock to places where there is no established religion, Religious Tolerance, 1766

28.No religious doctrine shall be established by law.
~Founding FatherElbridge Gerry, Annals of Congress 1:729-731

29.Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that I do not believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities. But as we know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the possibility of such oppression.
~Founding FatherOliver Wolcott, Connecticut Ratifying Convention, 9 January 1788

30.Some very worthy persons, who have not had great advantages for information, have objected against that clause in the constitutionwhich provides, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. They have been afraid that this clause is unfavorable to religion. But my countrymen, the sole purpose and effect of it is to exclude persecution, and to secure to you the important right of religious
liberty. We are almost the only people in the world, who have a full enjoyment of this important right of human nature. In our country every man has a right to worship God in that way which is most agreeable to his conscience. If he be a good and peaceable person he is liable to no penalties or incapacities on account of his religious sentiments; or in other words, he is not subject to persecution. But in other parts of the world, it has been, and still is, far different. Systems of religious error have been adopted, in times of ignorance. It has been the interest of tyrannical kings, popes, and prelates, to maintain these errors. When the clouds of ignorance began to vanish, and the people grew more enlightened, there was no other way to keep them in error, but to prohibit their altering their religious opinions by severe persecuting laws. In this way persecution became general throughout Europe.
~Founding FatherOliver Ellsworth, Philip B Kurland and Ralph Lerner (eds.), The Founders Constitution, University of Chicago Press, 1987, Vol. 4, p.
638

31.Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.
~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

32.God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.
~Founding FatherIsaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

33.Congress has no power to make any religious establishments.
~Founding FatherRoger Sherman, Congress, August 19, 1789

34.The American states have gone far in assisting the progress of truth; but they have stopped short of perfection. They ought to have given every honest citizen an equal right to enjoy his religion and an equal title to all civil emoluments, without obliging him to tell his religion. Every interference of the civil power in regulating opinion, is an impious attempt to take the business of the Deity out of his own hands; and every preference given to any religious denomination, is so far slavery and bigotry.
~Founding FatherNoah Webster, calling for no religious tests to serve in public office, Sketches of American Policy, 1785

35.The legislature of the United States shall pass no law on the subject of religion.
~Founding FatherCharles Pinckney, Constitutional Convention, 1787

Yes, it does mean that.

Thumbs up.

The majority of Americans believe in a god.

That doesn't mean they're right.

Yes, I am.

Educated folks know that old testament arguments are invalid under the new covenant. I thought you would understand that a priori. My mistake.

If a stranger comes up to you and says the end is literally near because the moon is full on Predident Obama's birthday, would you respect their opinion?

That's never happened to me . But on NT I am frequently exposed to religious beliefs about climatology . They are not in any way scientific ...

Strange indeed. Do these anti-religion folks similarly castigate Vietnam draft dodgers or civil rights protesters? They put their personal convictions ahead of their government allegiance.

Educated folks know that old testament arguments are invalid under the new covenant. I thought you would understand that a priori. My mistake.

Thank God for validity!

It gets more-and-more frightening out there.

What is it about Christianity that is so frightening to you?

Christians who tend to be so un-Christ-like.

And rigid ideological stuff like

LOLOL, your credibility is non existent.

He had credibility?

Educated folks know that old testament arguments are invalid under the new covenant.

I think you might find that Jews and Muslims might feel differently.

Well said Ambie.

Amen Max!

All respectable religion involves some form of surrender of the self.

Evangelical Christians are just weird about it.

If I wasn't an atheist LGL, I'd shout Amen!

I never give up any of my self. Well....except to my wife...of course...

A flag is symbolic, nothing more or less. Perhaps the larger question is, will displaying the Christian flag above the U.S. flag draw non-members to the church or push them further away? Does this flag, or any for that matter,further the gospel of Christ...I'm thinking probably not.

Why is it that those who claim "belief in God," tend to worship Him in a building with walls and a roof THAT BLOCK THE VIEW OF WHAT HE CREATED the sky, the Cosmos,forests, rivers, wildlife why is that?

How is it that so many religious individuals are simultaneously Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Pro-War, Anti-Environmentalism (ain't it God's Green Earth?), Anti-Health Insurance and Food for Poor Children

Pro-Birth or Pro-Life I report, you decide.

Jesus in the New Testament clearly told us to put God first.

Well then help me with this

" Render unto Caesar " is the beginning of a phrase attributed to Jesus in the synoptic gospels , which reads in full, " Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

Well thanks brother, I was too tired last night to do this.

Thanks for having my back, I couldn't have quoted it better!

(and illustrates just how fast the founders are spinning in their graves)

This one is worth restating....

Some very worthy persons, who have not had great advantages for information, have objected against that clause in the constitutionwhich provides, that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. They have been afraid that this clause is unfavorable to religion. But my countrymen, the sole purpose and effect of it is to exclude persecution, and to secure to you the important right of religious liberty.

We are almost the only people in the world, who have a full enjoyment of this important right of human nature. In our country every man has a right to worship God in that way which is most agreeable to his conscience. If he be a good and peaceable person he is liable to no penalties or incapacities on account of his religious sentiments; or in other words, he is not subject to persecution.

But in other parts of the world, it has been, and still is, far different. Systems of religious error have been adopted, in times of ignorance. It has been the interest of tyrannical kings, popes, and prelates, to maintain these errors. When the clouds of ignorance began to vanish, and the people grew more enlightened, there was no other way to keep them in error, but to prohibit their altering their religious opinions by severe persecuting laws. In this way persecution became general throughout Europe.
~Founding FatherOliver Ellsworth, Philip B Kurland and Ralph Lerner (eds.), The Founders Constitution, University of Chicago Press, 1987, Vol. 4, p.
638

In this, all that can be said is said, there can be no question of where a true libertarian stands.

Who is your earthly king XX?

It's all in those pesky details Mac

The details they want to forget.

That doesn't mean they're right.

ambi,

I think your comment is directed at me, so, I will respond to it in full.

Places of worship have always been the edifices where likeminded people come together to celebrate their faith, worshiptogether.

It is the "likeminded" that troubles me; "likeminded" for much of religion is often single-minded, narrow-minded, myopic and thus exclusionary, that is, welcoming worshipers of the same ideology and figuratively "closing its doors" to those who might have "minds" that don't follow in 100%, unquestioning fashion. It is the dogmas that often come with groups of the "likeminded" that lead to all sorts of "un-God-like" acts counter to the "talk" of religion but characteristic of the "walk" so-to-speak.

And the "edifices" in many religions tend to become places of the status-seeker, the in-house big-shots, in-house politicians and power-broker-self-appointed "leaders" of the congregation. When the money is there, some of these edifices tend to evolve towards the palatial and profane rather than the sacrosanct and spiritual.

Do you live in the woods or do you have a home with walls anda roof, because worship is done everywhere and anywhere. Do you think that celebrants are condemned to stay indoors?

As much as I can (but I'm the exception). I have a home with walls and a roof and I can worship God there, of course. But my comment about a building vs. the woods is one intended to cite the irony of those who praise God from a pew but who fail to take the time and make the effort to literally and figuratively "smell the roses" He's created!

I fail to understand why "religious individuals" are placed in some compartmentalized political party.

Many compartmentalize themselves thus -- a reiteration of looking for the perceived "safe-havens" from the inherent insecurity of REALITY! There ain't none!

There are many, many Christians who are politically pro choice, don'trun around killingpeople with their guns but do love the right to own one, despise war, work in the blessed environment ( I for one), want to bring Monsanto down, and givemoneyto their churches to help the war torn and feed and educate their children - and a whole lot more. And as far as health insurance goes, I,one of those Christians, want single payer and Bernie for President (sorry XX).

Here, ambi, we are on the same pages of the "hymn book".

You all need to get out more; and open the windows of your minds, they are musty with misinformation.

I have many times been accused of being "out there," -- I also spend a great deal of time out there where I can photography the beautiful elements of Creation -- as they and I evolve.

Peace my friend.