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Left Pushes End of Church Tax Exemptions

  

Category:  Religion & Ethics

Via:  xxjefferson51  •  10 years ago  •  39 comments

Left Pushes End of Church Tax Exemptions
Emboldened by their latest win in the Supreme Court over same-sex "marriage," the left has been trumpeting the cause tax exemptions for religious institutions at a much faster rate, setting the stage for it to become a national agenda.Immediately following the Supreme Court decision that declared same-sex marriage legal, Time's Mark Oppenheimer openly declared that churches should be stripped of their tax-exempt statuses, arguing they served no reliable function when helping the poor and that government had no business "subsidizing" them anymore.The current trend to end tax-exempt status for religious institutions gained further steam this past weekend, when HBO Jon Stewart clone/wannabe John Oliver lampooned tax-exempt statuses for televangelists preaching the "prosperity gospel," finding discontent with having such moral issues play themselves out in the hearts, minds, and souls of the individuals giving money to such organizations. To quote National Review's Ian Tuttle regarding John Oliver's latest rant against tax-exemptions, "Oliver is not content to let the Almighty right this wrong. He eagerly invokes a different deity: the federal government."Following John Oliver's call for leftist action against religious institutions, Occupy Democrats, a leftist advocacy group founded a kind of anti-Tea Party in 2012http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/left-pushes-end-church-tax-exemptions

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XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
The current trend to end tax-exempt status for religious institutions gained further steam this past weekend, when HBO Jon Stewart clone/wannabe John Oliver lampooned tax-exempt statuses for televangelists preaching the "prosperity gospel," finding discontent with having such moral issues play themselves out in the hearts, minds, and souls of the individuals giving money to such organizations. To quote National Review's Ian Tuttle regarding John Oliver's latest rant against tax-exemptions, "Oliver is not content to let the Almighty right this wrong. He eagerly invokes a different deity: the federal government."Following John Oliver's call for leftist action against religious institutions, Occupy Democrats, a leftist advocacy group founded a kind of anti-Tea Party in 2012, posted on their Facebook page the below meme:Perhaps even scarier than the meme itself are the comments associated with it. To get a full a picture of a leftist mind, just read their thoughts below:
 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah    10 years ago
And which comments exactly are "scary"? They're all very reasonable if you ask me.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
You might seem to think so. To an atheist who hates religion and believers those comments might seem quite normal.
 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah    10 years ago
You didn't answer my question. Which comment was scary to you?
 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    10 years ago

I am an atheist, yet I do not hate religion (though freely admit that I think it's foolish). I just think it should pay the same taxes as any other business. Property taxes sounds like a good place to start. They don't deserve any more special treatment then any other business.

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

Who from "The Left" is doing the pushing?

Got a name, a bill, an organized movement?

FREEdom of Religion taxpayers are paying for it, so how is it "free"?

You give religions more than $82.5 billion a year

When people donate to religious groups, it's tax-deductible. Churches don't pay property taxes on their land or buildings. When they buy stuff, they don't pay sales taxes. When they sell stuff at a profit, they don't pay capital gains tax. If they spend less than they take in, they don't pay corporate income taxes. Priests, ministers, rabbis and the like get "parsonage exemptions" that let them deduct mortgage payments, rent and other living expenses when they're doing their income taxes. They also are the only group allowed to opt out of Social Security taxes (and benefits).
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
As long as we have separation of church and state and religious freedom here there can be no taxing of churches.
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

As long as we have separation of church and state and religious freedom here there can be no taxing of churches.

As long as the taxpayer makes up the loss of revenue caused by exempting churches, THE "SEPARATION" is in name only.

And nowhere in the Constitution appear the words "separation of church and state."

"Religious freedom" should not be subsidized directly or indirectly by the taxpayer. "Freedom implies "independence," and by being able to exist tax free, churches are ironically, dependent on taxpayers.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    10 years ago

IYHO. They are a business selling a product just like any other one and just like any other business they need to pay their fair taxes. Why should my taxes be higher just because they are dead beats? They are the ones who choose to market their product and they make a large profit from their business selling that product like any other one, so they should pay the same taxes.

 
 
 
Petey Coober
Freshman Silent
link   Petey Coober    10 years ago

Not all churches are wealthy . The point that brings up is that eliminating the tax exemption will prevent the formation of new churches more than any other effect .

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

The point that brings up is that eliminating the tax exemption will prevent the formation of new churches more than any other effect .

No more so than new business start-ups that have to pay rent, property taxes, purchase various kinds of insurance,pay sales taxes,profit taxes, and business owners, as individuals, must pay capital gains taxes on investments, and, unlike clergy, as individuals, can't deduct rent norother living expenses when preparing their income taxes. And, unlike clergy, They cannot opt out of Social Security taxes.

I disagree, Petey.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah    10 years ago
I think churches should stop taxing their congregations.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Churches are not businesses. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Religion and the actual running of government were kept separate with good reason. Those who want government to tax churches really want government to be master over the church. And perhaps even tax based on actions and beliefs. A real slippery slope.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Churches are charitable organizations. That is what we do and we should be treated as well as any other not for profit group even if one discounts the obvious church state issues if government had taxing power over people's religious beliefs. Many of us contribute to our churches ministries and missions and are happy with their work and don't see really extravagant churches or have pastors making all that much for their hard work.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Churches don't tax members. Many believe that God asks us to return 1/10th back to him and if they believe that they should be able to teach and encourage that.
 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    10 years ago

Churches are charitable organizations.

While many of them who have ministers that live in multi-million dollar mansions (one or more) and fly around in private jets, both of which officially belong to their ministry and are tax exempt.

 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    10 years ago

Churches are not businesses.

Oh of course they are. They sell a made up product they call salvation to the people they are conning. They convince some people that something all powerful exists, will kill you if you don't believe in it and always needs money. It's a business selling a product and they should pay the same taxes as any other manufacturers and retailers of any other products.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Always bringing up the outlier I see.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Most churches and ministries do NOT do that.
 
 
 
sixpick
Professor Quiet
link   sixpick    10 years ago

This is the reason the two most lucrative careers are in Religion and Politics.

Of course being an attorney also allows them to legally steal from others.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Denominations the richest corporations in America? Many churches aren't just in America. They are ministries that cover almost the entire earth in many cases including more relatively recent denominations that were founded here in America during one of our great awakenings of the late 18th to mid 19th century. Many churches started in Europe and came here when settlers did. So churches aren't some American corporation to be taxed. There are countries where people are taxed by the state to financially support the state church and its clergy. We don't and shouldn't do that. Fortunately I don't see those who hate religion and believers getting to use government to tax us for our beliefs any time soon.
 
 
 
Randy
Sophomore Quiet
link   Randy    10 years ago

But enough do to make it the face of modern Christianity. The Creflo Dollar effect. Send me contributions because I need a new and bigger jet to spread the word. Then there was Oral Roberts who said God would "take him home" if he didn't raise $8 million in a specific time. When he only received about half of the money by the end of that time his ministry spread rumors that god calling him home meant that he could go by suicide, so after that the total jumped to over $9 million. His son said that Oral had raised a child from the dead.

There have been a whole series and a very long line and number of hucksters and con men who have used Christianity to make money for themselves. It continues to this day.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Guide
link   Hal A. Lujah    10 years ago
Man, I bet God is pissed then, seeing as how he's not even getting a cut of money that was supposed to go to him. His money is being spent to upgrade the ministers car lease, and have some artist create a grotesque statue of a dead guy nailed to some boards, and to keep the minister's country club membership in good standing, and to redecorate the narthex, and to eventually add a new wing onto the church to make it look more important than that church up the street. That's how the Protestant church I grew up going to handled their tax free 'earnings', and that isn't 1% as fiscally irresponsible as the Catholic Church is.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
Only in the minds of those predisposed to hate Christians and God. Those who abuse a ministry for personal gain do exist as there are hypocrites in the church and we are all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God. Satan uses these people to turn others against God. And of course the vast majority of Bible belueving Christians and their leaders are nothing like that.
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

Religion and the actual running of government were kept separate with good reason.

But accepting tax exempt status FROM THE GOVERNMENT is not only NOT SEPARATION, but outright DEPENDENCE.

The taxpayer makes up the revenue shortfall caused by religious tax-exemption churches get the benefits the rest of us pay for , that's

"REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION"

 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

we should be treated as well as any other not for profit group

But when churches do make profits

financial gains, esp. the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something

They are exempted from paying taxes on the gains!

Non-profit status may make an organization eligible for certain benefits, such as state sales, property, and income tax exemptions; however, this corporate status does not automatically grant exemption from federal income tax. To be tax exempt, most organizations must apply for recognition of exemption from the Internal Revenue Service to obtain a ruling or determination letter recognizing tax exemption. Exemption as a charitable, educational, or religious organization under section 501(c)(3) is generally considered the most favorable status, because donations to 501(c)(3) organizations are tax deductible.

Andthose deductions essence, fall on other taxpayers who make up the shortfall.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
So you want to end all charitable contribution deductions because other people have to make up for some getting a fraction of their contribution back? That makes it sound like it was the governments money in the first place.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
As do we. Why pretend that those are actually all of us? Why tar the entire religion with the misdeeds of a few?
 
 
 
A. Macarthur
Professor Guide
link   A. Macarthur    10 years ago

So you want to end all charitable contribution deductions because other people have to make up for some getting a fraction of their contribution back? That makes it sound like it was the governments money in the first place.

DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH THEN EXPECT ME TO EXPLAIN MYSELF!

Lots of people and organizations are charitable WITHOUT EXISTING IN A TAX-EXEMPT WORLD!

First, the religious exemption has forced the IRS to decide whats a religion, and thus has entangled church and state in the worst way. Since the worlds great religion scholars cant agree on what a religion is, its absurd to ask a bunch of accountants, no matter how well-meaning.

You can read part of the IRSs guidelines for whats a bona fide religion here ; suffice it to say that it has an easier time saying whats not a religion. The site gives the example of the rejection of an application from an outgrowth of a supper club whose primary activities were holding meetings before supper, sponsoring the supper club, and publishing a newsletter but which professed a religious doctrine of ethical egoism.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
link   Kavika     10 years ago

It's the same tactic that you use XX...Thugs, jack-boot, regime, etc etc.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
I thought that all charitable organizations fit into the tax exempt world. Religions are in the tax exempt world and they always will be. There is virtually no public support to tax churches or to tax members donations to their church. There is also no way that the government could replace all the first responder, disaster-development relief, general charity, education, and medical work that churches do by repealing their tax exempt status and the deductibility of their donors if their efforts ended as a result.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
I don't recall any real issues with pastoral excesses or denominational waste or extravagance with the southern baptists.
 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
link   seeder  XXJefferson51    10 years ago
I'm not Southern Baptist but I still haven't heard of it saw any evidence of such in any Christian media, theirs or others. Do you have a specific scandal in mind? If so, how was it dealt with?
 
 

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