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Centrists In The Age Of Trump

By:  lennylynx  •   •  2 weeks ago  •  130 comments

Centrists In The Age Of Trump

"But being conciliatory is not always the right approach. The correct response to outrageous behavior by the President, is to show outrage."

Even before Trump, it had been getting harder and harder to understand how centrists could remain in the center.  The Republican party slid farther and farther into the swamp, to the point that they were little more than a gang of corporate thugs.  How could ANYONE, save the most cultish of all right wingers, continue to support them?

The simplest explanation is that centrists simply don't understand what's going on around them.  The 'pledge' to corporate attack dog Norquist says it all about the utter corporate subservience of the Republican party; and the 47 who tried to undermine an important international peace treaty says it all about their rigid partisanship. Now they have actually withdrawn from the treaty for no other reason than irrational, partisan hatred of the president who signed it.  They threaten world peace because of partisanship and a total lack of integrity. And the centrists center on...

As Trump proved over and over again to be every bit as horrible a president as it looked like he might be, it seemed only a matter of time before centrists would finally realize just how debased and evil the Republican party had become.  Incredibly, even with staunch conservatives and lifelong Republicans leaving the party in droves, many centrists remain doggedly in the middle. 

Still, one has to admire sincere efforts to unite the country.  Centrists are kind hearted and well meaning people.  But being conciliatory is not always the right approach.  The correct response to the support of outrageous behavior by the President, is to show outrage.  The Republican party is completely and utterly void of not only integrity, but even basic human decency.  They don't WANT to do the right thing by the American people.  If Trump doesn't convince you of this, nothing ever will.

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lennylynx
1  author  lennylynx    2 weeks ago

I will continue wearing this fake nose and glasses as long as the fake president remains in the White House.  Please help remove the abomination so I can be myself again! jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
Split Personality
1.1  Split Personality  replied to  lennylynx @1    2 weeks ago

Ok, but if I see you at Maranucci's or Chickie's and Pete's next week, I am going to pretend I don't know you, lol.

 
 
Greg Jones
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  lennylynx @1    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 The Republican party is completely and utterly void of not only integrity, but even basic human decency.  They don't WANT to do the right thing by the American people. 

Oh that's udder nonsense. They have to balance out what the Democrats have turned into. Angry, unhappy, hate filled, progressive, socialistic, liberal wretches who seeking to sell out this country to special interest groups...

 
 
dennis smith
1.2.1  dennis smith  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    2 weeks ago

There are some Dems and some Repubs who see what has been happened in American politics and realize working together with the opposite party is needed. Their leaders McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer etc have separated their parties from the other for decades and they need to be replaced. 

 
 
tomwcraig
1.2.2  tomwcraig  replied to  dennis smith @1.2.1    2 weeks ago

Actually, McConnell and Ryan caused the loss of the House by not working with Donald Trump to pass a repeal of Obamacare and not doing anything about immigration.  Part of the problem is that McConnell is in love with the cloture rule and giving the minority party a huge amount of power; when the original debate system was the exact same as the House using "Move the Previous Question".  The filibuster didn't really come into play until Aaron Burr was Vice President and changed the rules of the Senate to eliminate the use of "Move the Previous Question".  That move actually created a limbo period that existed until 1917 when cloture was started.  I say limbo period because there was no real procedure to end debate between 1806 and 1917.

 
 
JBB
1.2.3  JBB  replied to  tomwcraig @1.2.2    2 weeks ago

That was some USDA PURE D Delusional Bullshit right there Tom. The damn gop did not lose the popular vote for Congress by over eight million votes November 6th because people are upset with the damn gop for not trying hard enough to dismantle ObamaCare or not being tough enough on immigration. The damn gop lost so damn badly exactly because people are sick and tired of Trump's and the damn gop's no good lying bullshit. Snap Out Of It! Nobody is buying that krazy out of touch crapola you are still vainly attempting to sell anymore. So, you ought to go try and pawn it to tourists...

 
 
tomwcraig
1.2.4  tomwcraig  replied to  JBB @1.2.3    one week ago

The popular vote regarding Republicans in the House is not a good measure of Republican popularity, particularly for just a SINGLE election.  If I may remind you, the Republicans won the Senate and GAINED seats there.  I stated before that the Republicans lost the House because of the above reasons.  They gained seats in the Senate because of Kavanaugh's treatment by Democrats.  If the Democrats hadn't gone full meltdown against Kavanaugh using someone whose recollection was spotty at best and then having others proven to have lied about Kavanaugh joining in at the last minute; then the Democrats probably would have won the Senate.  The only issue the GOP actually ran on was tax cuts and how they passed those.  What they should have ran on was immigration reform and repealing Obamacare and should have actually pushed a bill that just repealed Obamacare before the election.  But, due to their foolishness and lack of a true strategy towards winning the House, just as they did in the 2006 election, they lost the election.  Why should people vote for the GOP, when their offer is "Whatever the Democrats offer, but slower."?  You are not giving people a choice and they might as well vote for the Democrats over you when doing so.

 
 
Ronin2
1.3  Ronin2  replied to  lennylynx @1    2 weeks ago

Nope.  The world could use a good laugh; and you seem to be the butt of your own joke.

If Trump gets reelected do you promise to gorilla glue them on? (I wouldn't recommend it medically speaking; but it would definitely prove your political conviction)

Since you despise independents (centerists); and I am one- my vote may be influenced by the answer.

You could force the Democratic party to run a viable candidate that understands how the electoral college works; doesn't ignore fly over country; and doesn't call just under 1/2 of voters "deplorables".  Of course they would have to be centerist (I know how much you hate that). Which means no open borders; no amnesty; and trying to look at least a little different than a Republican in foreign policy. No, that does not mean starting more proxy wars to destabilize countries rather than invading them.  Nor does it mean bombing them into oblivion and then leaving them an unstable mess for someone else to deal with.

 
 
dave-2693993
2  dave-2693993    2 weeks ago
But being conciliatory is not always the right approach. The correct response to outrageous behavior by the President, is to show outrage.

Lenny, I think you are painting "centrists" with a broad brush that does not cover all of them.

 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
3  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

I'm not sure you mean centrists. I think you mean independents, as in the unaffiliated. Centrists mean those who strive to be in the middle, and I am not sure there are many of those. What most unaffiliated people are is more akin to ordering from a Chinese menu; one from column A and two from column B. In other words, issue-driven, not party driven.

Anyway, that's my two bits. 

 
 
lennylynx
3.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

I'm not sure I see a clear distinction between the two, but Trump and the Republicans should be completely rejected by anyone who is not a total scumbag like they are.  At this point, left/right politics have nothing to do with it anyway, the country is in crisis.  Trump is dangerous and needs to be removed as soon as possible.

 
 
Trout Giggles
3.1.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  lennylynx @3.1    2 weeks ago

I think trmp should be completely rejected, but not Republicans. This country does not need a one party system, that would lead us to totalitarianism and I will not stand for that

 
 
lennylynx
3.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

And, sorry for going Meta, but I thought we had an agreement that insults against me would not be deleted.  See 1.2.

 
 
Dean Moriarty
3.2.1  Dean Moriarty  replied to  lennylynx @3.2    2 weeks ago

And I didn’t see it as an insult as he was complimenting you on your makeover.

 
 
lennylynx
3.2.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.2.1    2 weeks ago

All the more reason it shouldn't have been removed then.

 
 
JBB
3.3  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @3    2 weeks ago

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing" - Edmond Burke.

We cannot remain neutral regarding Trumism. Sometimes we all must choose a side regarding the most consequential political situations we face as a nation. Posterity will judge those who steadfastly remained neutral as harshly as those who have wholeheartedly supported these ongoing Trumpian travesties. Vichey France was the shameful consequence of appeasment...

Independents aka centrists, in the lingo of today, are enabling the status quo...

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.1  dave-2693993  replied to  JBB @3.3    2 weeks ago
Independents aka centrists, in the lingo of today, are enabling the status quo...

I'll tell you the same thing I told Lenny.

That is a broad brush that doesn't cover all "centrists".

 
 
lennylynx
3.3.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.1    2 weeks ago

What's important here, Dave, is not politics, it's removing a dangerous lunatic from the presidency.  Anyone who defends or normalizes this lunatic will not be looked upon kindly by history.  It is what it is, and if a horror show like Trump can't unite the country, nothing ever will.

 
 
JBB
3.3.3  JBB  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.1    2 weeks ago

These are exceptional times so I stand by my reasonable assessment...

This is a time when we must take sides or else face posterity's verdict...

Once this crisis is over you may safely resume your fence sitting, again.

 
 
321steve
3.3.4  321steve  replied to  JBB @3.3.3    2 weeks ago
This is a time when we must take sides or else face posterity's verdict...

IMO: The "taking of sides" can be limited to where the damage seems to be occurring. 

That's my stance.

Asking others  to abandon their ideology and adopting yours is a big step. One I wont take.

"Fence sitting" IMO: Is better than engaging in the division that is bad for the country.  

Ironically we end up fighting the dividers, some from both sides.  

I wrote this years ago and still believe t's true today:

America needs a mix of all ideologies:

 

        “United we stand, divided we fall”

 

Does Anyone remember this is still AMERICA ?

America needs a mix of all, conservatives, liberals and independents.

A good blend will move America forward at a reasonable speed. 

Too many of any one ideology is bad for America.

America needs to move forward as the world progresses. 

Too many cons = little to no forward movement.

Too many liberals = move too fast forward.

Too many Independents = well you can’t have too many….lol (I’m one) LOL

Please research ALL candidates  before you VOTE

The more Americans that research all the candidates for all the offices before they vote and vote for the most qualified, the better our government and country will be.

.

PS: I consider myself {a pragmatist, realistically moderate,  a independent and progressive Deist with both some conservative and liberal tendencies, depending on the issue or subject.}

Hard to pigeon-hole that one. Drives me nuts sometimes, but I’m not. My mother had me tested.

Although it has been suggested, I be retested. At this point, I see no point of it.  lol

 

 

 
 
321steve
3.3.5  321steve  replied to  JBB @3.3    2 weeks ago
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing" - Edmond Burke.

We cannot remain neutral regarding Trumism. 

Independents aka centrists, in the lingo of today, are enabling the status quo...

IMO: The "taking of sides" can be limited to where the damage seems to be occurring. 

That's my stance.

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.6  dave-2693993  replied to  JBB @3.3.3    2 weeks ago
Once this crisis is over you may safely resume your fence sitting, again.

Right here is where you and anyone with similar prespective is wrong.

A total rejection of both extremes is not sitting on any fence.

All I see are 2 groups on opposite ends acting childish in their own ways.

We have a system. We don't need to act like left wing and right wing extremist to make it work.

That doesn't mean appeasing any maniac in office or any other extremists on the sidelines.

Fence sitting? BS. Acting like an adult about the matter and working within the system. Yes.

 
 
WallyW
3.3.7  WallyW  replied to  JBB @3.3.3    2 weeks ago

He wasn't my first either...but do you really want the holly roller Pence?

I'm waiting for Nikki Haley to become the first female president. I think her chances will be good.

 
 
JBB
3.3.8  JBB  replied to  321steve @3.3.5    2 weeks ago

The damage is occurring right here right now so get with it here and now...

These are times we heard of when good people must come aid this nation.

If not now, when? If not here, where? If not us, who? The crisis is upon us...

There is no justification other than complicity for not taking a stand TODAY!

 
 
lennylynx
3.3.9  author  lennylynx  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.6    2 weeks ago

What's 'extreme' is Trump and all those who enable him.

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.10  dave-2693993  replied to  lennylynx @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
What's important here, Dave, is not politics, it's removing a dangerous lunatic from the presidency.

Lenny, did you pay attention to the mid terms results?

There is a way to make things happen and it needn't include "revolutionary" talk and behavior.

I grew up in a family which survived both left and right extremes, even to the point of coming home to see a house full of dead family members.

Gee how did that happen? The sweet and convincing words of the charismatic revolutionary leader.

I don't know about you or anyone else who has a misconception of the spectrum of "centrists" but I can tell you there are centrists who are anything but appeasing or "fence" sitting.

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.11  dave-2693993  replied to  lennylynx @3.3.9    2 weeks ago
What's 'extreme' is Trump and all those who enable him.

I will agree with that.

Likewise I will call anyone else who prefers lawless approaches to correct what they see as wrong and go outside of the system we have in place, also as extreme.

 
 
JBB
3.3.12  JBB  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.6    2 weeks ago

The thing is that only far righties agree with your stance regarding this...

That should tell you something. Stay on that fence and enable trumpism.

 
 
321steve
3.3.13  321steve  replied to  JBB @3.3.8    2 weeks ago
The damage is occurring right here right now so get on it here and now...

The "damage" didn't just start happening, I've been against  donald trump taking office since the day  he announced his candidacy.

You would not believe the time and effort I spent talking to others set on voting for this man trying to convince them why not to. As you can see he is now president. I don't think That is my fault.

I have and do do what I think is best to try to get rid of him. Acting irrationally I dont see as part of it. Hating some one and slamming them usually is no way to change anyone's mind on anything so I don't take that path. 

Logic. reality and sanity is where I take it and where I've been since trump decided to hijack the republican party and become the president and this is where I intend on staying now and in the future. 

 
 
JBB
3.3.14  JBB  replied to  321steve @3.3.13    2 weeks ago

If you stand firmly against Trumpism then you chose a side already...

If you will not then your personal culpability is for posterity to decide.

 
 
lennylynx
3.3.15  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @3.3.13    2 weeks ago

As a matter of fact, Steve, the damage DID start with Trump taking over.  The previous president gave us steady improvement over the damage the president before him did.

  How many times do we have to repeat the cycle of Republicans screwing everything up and Democrats fixing it before you centrists finally clue in?

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.16  dave-2693993  replied to  JBB @3.3.12    2 weeks ago
The thing is that only far righties agree with your stance regarding this... That should tell you something. Stay on that fence and enable trumpism.

I'm sorry, but making up BS isn't going to help further the discussion.

I'll paraphrase part of what I told Lenny.

Did you pay attention to mid terms results?

I grew up in a family that survived the extremist on both sides, some even coming home to a family full of dead relatives.

Thanks to the charismatic revolutionary. BTW, one of their characteristics is making up BS about other people.

 
 
321steve
3.3.17  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @3.3.15    2 weeks ago
As a matter of fact, Steve, the damage DID start with Trump taking over. 

The "damage" started the day trump slithered down his golden staircase and announced he was going to be the next president.  IMO: It's been downhill since.  

 
 
Dulay
3.3.18  Dulay  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.6    2 weeks ago

I think I may have found a meme to fit the bill:

512

 
 
321steve
3.3.19  321steve  replied to  Dulay @3.3.18    2 weeks ago

You forgot they also may be a republican.

OUCH !!!

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.20  dave-2693993  replied to  Dulay @3.3.18    2 weeks ago

We need more candidates like Debra "Deb" Haaland of New Mexico, 1 of 2 Native American candidates elected to Congress these past mid-terms.

She did not go out on a platform, so much of political ideology, but went out to the people in her district, regardless of ideology, to understand what matters to them.

She won many voters over, because of that.

That approach is sorely needed on a national level.

Unfortunately, too many are nothing but brats kicking sand in the sand box. We need to quit rewarding those types and instead turn our rewards towards those like Deb Haaland.

 
 
Dean Moriarty
3.3.21  Dean Moriarty  replied to  dave-2693993 @3.3.20    2 weeks ago

Deb is a full blown liberal lunatic. 

https://debforcongress.com/priorities/

 
 
tomwcraig
3.3.22  tomwcraig  replied to  lennylynx @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
What's important here, Dave, is not politics, it's removing a dangerous lunatic from the presidency.

Okay, explain how Trump is a lunatic. 

If it is because he brags, a lot of people brag, including professional athletes.  Are you saying that Muhammed Ali was a lunatic? 

If it is because he lies, almost all politicians lie, including Barack Obama.  Are you claiming Barack Obama was a lunatic?  

If it is because Trump has kept the majority of his campaign promises, then you might be on to something since that is a rarity in politics today.

If it is because of his policies that actually seem to be working, then you really need to look in the mirror as when you have something that works, you don't go trying to fix it.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If it is because of his continued insistence that we build a border wall, then you need to re-read the US Constitution and in particular the preamble.  It states as one of the primary duties of the government is to provide for the common defence.  Don't you think securing the borders and enforcing our immigration laws should be a high priority as that is providing for the common defence?

 
 
dave-2693993
3.3.23  dave-2693993  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.3.21    2 weeks ago

I don't agree with everything she states. But here is what I agree with; she talks to the people in her district and listens. These things posted at her web site are things people in her district are concerned about, so she is will to support them.

Most important, I see from her statements a realization and intent of working within our system of government. I don't get the sense of her acting like a maniacal banshee and advocating lawlessness, thuggery, destruction and intimidation in the streets.

Her time to serve has yet to begin, so we shall see what happens over time.

 
 
Dulay
3.3.24  Dulay  replied to  Dean Moriarty @3.3.21    2 weeks ago
Deb is a full blown liberal lunatic.

From her website:

"I am committed to fighting for medicare for all, moving to 100% Renewable energy, taking big money out of politics, women's equality, permanent solution for our dreamers, and taking on the NRA!"

Oh the HORROR! /s

 
 
tomwcraig
3.3.25  tomwcraig  replied to  Dulay @3.3.24    2 weeks ago
"I am committed to fighting for medicare for all, moving to 100% Renewable energy, taking big money out of politics, women's equality, permanent solution for our dreamers, and taking on the NRA!"
Oh the HORROR! /s

You do realize that the NRA was founded to arm and teach former slaves to defend themselves after the Civil War, correct?  Their only goal is to maintain the 2nd Amendment.

Dreamers are non-citizens that have been brought here illegally by their parents, either by the parents failing to show up for their asylum court date(s) or not even bothering to apply for asylum and just walking over the border.

There are still some steps needed to get women to be equal; but that is mainly regarding pay.  And, the biggest offenders of equal pay for equal work are Democrats despite their promises.

100% Renewable energy would be burning firewood and hydroelectric only, since wind turbines and solar panels are highly toxic and kill wildlife as shown by various studies.

Medicare for all?  So, your goal is for the government to pay 80% of health care bills by restricting what doctors can charge while not having any sort of controls on prescriptions or medical supplies, then have the program go bankrupt due to a lack of people paying in due to the restrictions Congress placed on the upper tax limit?  A much better and sensible plan is to require all health insurers to offer their plans throughout the country.  The only real hurdle with that requirement is that some states have restrictions on the health insurance coverages in their states.

 
 
Dulay
3.3.26  Dulay  replied to  tomwcraig @3.3.25    2 weeks ago
You do realize that the NRA was founded to arm and teach former slaves to defend themselves after the Civil War, correct?  Their only goal is to maintain the 2nd Amendment.

You do realize that when the Black Panthers practiced their 2nd Amendment rights in CA the NRA and Reagan couldn't pass gun control fast enough don't you?

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

The rest is blah, blah, blah. 

 
 
Spikegary
3.3.27  Spikegary  replied to  Dulay @3.3.18    2 weeks ago

It'd probably help if you had a candidate that was actually running for President.  The only thing you have now is 'Not Trump' and 'Abuela 3.0'.

When did Presidnet Obama start campaigning for President?  Likely during the Democratic Convention, where a sa Junior Senator he was the key-note speaker.  All this hand-wringing does little good if there is no alternative to what is.  So far, the left has shown nothing but looking backwards.

 
 
Dulay
3.3.28  Dulay  replied to  Spikegary @3.3.27    2 weeks ago
It'd probably help if you had a candidate that was actually running for President.

Who did the GOP have two weeks after the 2010 midterms Spike? 

The GOP and neo-nationalists have no room to be dissing the Democrats. 

 
 
Spikegary
3.3.29  Spikegary  replied to  Dulay @3.3.28    2 weeks ago

Oh good, more foolish whataboutisms.

You and the rest of the left spend your days bitching about the President.  He did this, he didn't do that, etc., ad nauseum and it can be seen here every day.

So, two weeks vs. almost 2 years and 1 month.  If you don't have a plan or a candidate, it's hard to win an election.

Now that we've dealt with the foolishness of that comparison, what's the plan?

 
 
Dulay
3.3.30  Dulay  replied to  Spikegary @3.3.29    2 weeks ago
Oh good, more foolish whataboutisms.

It's not whataboutism at all. 

You insist that the Dems HAVE to have a Presidential candidate NOW. Why?

Who was the GOP candidate for 2014 Spike? 

You and the rest of the left spend your days bitching about the President. 

It's only fitting since Trump spends his morning bitching in tweets about the left. Y'all love it when Trump 'hits back' yet you insist that the left remain mum. 

Again, after 8 years of y'all bitching about Obama the GOP and neo-nationalist have no room to diss the Dems or the left. 

 
 
Tacos!
4  Tacos!    2 weeks ago

I would say both parties are more partisan and tribal than they used to be, but it's not as if Republicans as a party have shifted to the right on policy. If anything, I would say the Democratic Party has slid a little to the left, e.g. by turning away from - and even demonizing - border enforcement. Mrs. Clinton spent much of her campaign literally apologizing for supporting policies that were popular in her party as recently as 10 to 20 years ago. We also see more and more Democratic officials embracing socialism - or aspects of socialism - publicly.

As for Trump, I can't remember when either party was less enthusiastic about their president. He won the nomination, in large part, because there were 16 other candidates vying for the nomination and he was so different from all of them that he won enough pluralities to get the nomination. Even then, there was a lot of talk about what the party could do to award the nomination to someone else. So I don't think it's fair to suggest that Trump represents the hopes and dreams of the party - or the party at all for matter. 

Trump does what seems sensible to him in the moment. He's not an ideologue. He doesn't really have policies that define his actions. Remember that only a few years before he ran for office, he he had been a lifelong Democrat. He might be the most centrist "Republican " president we have had in 60 years, which could be a reason Republican legislators can't agree on his agenda. Meanwhile, the tribalism that infects both parties prevents the Democrats from agreeing with many things that shouldn't even be partisan, just as it did with the Republicans and Obama.

 
 
PJ
4.1  PJ  replied to  Tacos! @4    2 weeks ago
demonizing - border enforcement.

That's a republican talking point.  The only thing that democrats demonized was the human rights abuses perpetrated by border patrol and DHS under the direction of Trump and the Republican majority in the House and the Senate.

 So I don't think it's fair to suggest that Trump represents the hopes and dreams of the party - or the party at all for matter

I would agree with you IF the Republican leadership had done their constitutional job and provided checks and bounds on this President rather than rubber stamping everything he did.  Only those who have left the party can say that Trump doesn't represent their hopes and dreams.

Trump was an opportunist who gave money to both parties where ever it would benefit his poor business practices and his illegal business dealings.   

 
 
WallyW
4.1.1  WallyW  replied to  PJ @4.1    2 weeks ago
the human rights abuses perpetrated by border patrol and DHS under the direction of Trump and the Republican majority in the House and the Senate.

What abuses, and what can you list that supports this assertion?

 
 
PJ
4.1.2  PJ  replied to  WallyW @4.1.1    2 weeks ago
  • Kidnapping immigrant children and separating them from their parents
  • Immigrant children molested by those tasked with overseeing their care
  • Lying to immigrants and coercing them to sign away their rights  
  • Housing them in facilities with poor conditions
  • Targeting law abiding Immigrants and deporting them

 
 
tomwcraig
4.1.3  tomwcraig  replied to  PJ @4.1.2    2 weeks ago
  • Kidnapping immigrant children and separating them from their parents

Blaming Trump for the Obama policy to protect children from traffickers that Trump continued, got it.

  • Immigrant children molested by those tasked with overseeing their care

This was something I did not hear about at all, where is the specifics and where did you hear this in the mainstream media?

  • Lying to immigrants and coercing them to sign away their rights  

Something else that I did not hear reported anywhere, so please where did you hear this in the mainstream media?

  • Housing them in facilities with poor conditions

I had heard this, but it turned out that those so-called poor conditions were only faked by the activists role-playing immigrants and their children to make political hay.

  • Targeting law abiding Immigrants and deporting them

I have heard one or two stories about this.  However, in any governmental law enforcement system there are mistakes made and in some cases those that were going through deportment proceedings were due to mistaken identity due to a similar name.  If judges failed to stay their deportations until their cases were heard, then it is a failure of the judges, not the government.

 
 
Tacos!
4.1.4  Tacos!  replied to  PJ @4.1    2 weeks ago
the human rights abuses

This is what I mean. As far as I know, the main thing the administration tried to do was institute a zero tolerance policy. Now, we can debate the wisdom of zero tolerance policies, for sure, but at worst, all they were doing was enforcing the law 100% of the time. That can hardly be characterized fairly as "human rights abuse."

 
 
JBB
4.1.5  JBB  replied to  Tacos! @4.1.4    2 weeks ago

But, refusing to consider 100% of legal refugee applications is illegal...

Trump's zero tolerance policy is illegal by ours and by international law.

Trump's proposal was to break our laws 100% of the time in all cases...

 
 
Tacos!
4.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  JBB @4.1.5    2 weeks ago
refusing to consider 100% of legal refugee applications is illegal

I'm not aware that they're doing that. They're processing applications as fast as they can. I know Trump wanted to say they would refuse applications for people in the country illegally, but that's against the law and a judge told him so. That's our system in action. But he's not the first politician to try something only to have a judge strike it down, so let's not act like something new happened here.

 
 
Spikegary
4.1.7  Spikegary  replied to  tomwcraig @4.1.3    2 weeks ago
Immigrant children molested by those tasked with overseeing their care

Isn't that more of a United Nations knda thing? You know, those kind souls that take advantage of those they are supposed to be protecting........

 
 
PJ
4.1.8  PJ  replied to  tomwcraig @4.1.3    2 weeks ago

I started to form a response in my mind and then said to myself "Pj, you can't make soup outta shit". 

I have no idea what that means or whether it's a true saying but it just kinda represented how I felt about the questions posed.  

 
 
Dulay
4.1.9  Dulay  replied to  tomwcraig @4.1.3    2 weeks ago
but it turned out that those so-called poor conditions were only faked by the activists role-playing immigrants and their children to make political hay.

This was something I did not hear about at all, where is the specifics and where did you hear this in the mainstream media?

 
 
Jack_TX
5  Jack_TX    2 weeks ago
it had been getting harder and harder to understand how centrists could remain in the center. 

No it hadn't.  Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.  It's very simple.  Unless of course you're one of those people who wants to tell everybody else how to think. 

The simplest explanation is that centrists simply don't understand what's going on around them.

So people who don't think like you "simply don't understand".  Riiiiight.  That's not the beginning of batshit crazy or anything.

As Trump proved over and over again to be every bit as horrible a president as it looked like he might be

You had very high expectations of him, apparently.  Which seems odd.

I look at the Trump presidency through the lens of my own, more realistic set of expectations....and as we are not at war, the stock market hasn't crashed, and the President of the United States has yet to appear in a Pitbull video, I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Incredibly, even with staunch conservatives and lifelong Republicans leaving the party in droves, many centrists remain doggedly in the middle.

Yes.  The Democrats give us Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and little Allie Ocasio.  So you'll forgive us if we don't see that as a vast improvement.

 
 
lennylynx
6  author  lennylynx    2 weeks ago

You're not helping me lose the fake nose and glasses, Jack, the Republican party are nothing but a bought and paid for weapon of the corporate elite.  Now they are defending and enabling a lawless and evil President who is doing everything he can to put himself above the law. 

This isn't about politics, Trump is dangerous and an absolutely horrible president from any political point of view.  Unless your political view is pro-dictatorship that is.

 
 
IceMan
6.1  IceMan  replied to  lennylynx @6    2 weeks ago

You and John Russell are one in the same.

 
 
lennylynx
6.1.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  IceMan @6.1    2 weeks ago

Every sane person in the entire world agrees with JR and myself about Trump, we're just a little more upfront about it than most.

 
 
Cerenkov
6.1.2  Cerenkov  replied to  lennylynx @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

Your comment is delusional.

 
 
IceMan
6.1.3  IceMan  replied to  lennylynx @6.1.1    2 weeks ago
Every sane person in the entire world agrees with JR and myself about Trump.
You and JR are the same person.
 
 
Jack_TX
6.2  Jack_TX  replied to  lennylynx @6    2 weeks ago
This isn't about politics,

That is the biggest lie of the past 150 years.

 
 
321steve
7  321steve    2 weeks ago

many centrists remain doggedly in the middle. 

Because that is where usually the sanity and reality resides. 

The correct response to the support of outrageous behavior by the President, is to show outrage. 

I dont see it that way. The better response to outrage is to stay in control of yourself.

Even before Trump, it had been getting harder and harder to understand how centrists could remain in the center.

I agree, we take flack from both sides, Many wanting us to join the division which we think is bad for the country.

The simplest explanation is that centrists simply don't understand what's going on around them.

I disagree, I see the big picture down to the details. I stopped underestimating trump even before he was elected. 

The Republican party is completely and utterly void of not only integrity, but even basic human decency. 

Again, I disagree, I see the bad and the good in Both parties. 

Trump proved over and over again to be every bit as horrible a president as it looked like he might be,

Before trump was elected I predicted if he took office it would be like putting a bull in the china shop of the oval office.

However, the real test of a presidency comes with time. At this point this president has done nothing to lose his job over. So I'd say he could be worse. ( Probably not by much, and he knows it.) President trump didn't get to where he is by playing by the rules so much, I dont look for that to change. 

Being outraged and hating it, doesn't change it, stop it, or make it better. It can drive ya nuts if ya allow it to though, I chose not to.

Thanks for including some kind words and truth. 

Still, one has to admire sincere efforts to unite the country.  Centrists are kind hearted and well meaning people.

United we stand, devided we fall.... Your choice Americans !

IMO: America is greater when we cooperate and not divide ourselves with both sides wanting to control the whole.

Have a good day.

 
 
PJ
7.1  PJ  replied to  321steve @7    2 weeks ago

I vote for divided.  

 
 
321steve
7.1.1  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1    2 weeks ago
I vote for divided.  

Many it seems do. 

United we stand, devided we fall.... Your choice Americans !

I don't !

 
 
PJ
7.1.2  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

I'm a registered Independent and have always voted by issue but I'm smart enough to know that the fucking house is burning down all around me and it's time to get into the game.

You and other Independents can pretend that you're holier than thou and remain sitting on the fence.  What you don't seem to understand is that you've picked a side by DOING NOTHING.

You'll wake up one day and wonder what happened, how could things get so bad......go look in the mirror and you'll find your answer.  

 
 
321steve
7.1.3  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
you've picked a side by DOING NOTHING.

what are you doing that is so effective you believe I should join you ? 

 
 
321steve
7.1.4  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
You'll wake up one day and wonder what happened, how could things get so bad......go look in the mirror and you'll find your answer.  

No, I'll know what happened. Other Americans devided this country to the point it failed. 

I'll look in the mirror glad I wasn't a part of it and instead was one of the ones who saw it coming , tried to stop it and were unsuccessful.

I sleep just fine being where I sit. And know I will in the end as well. I dont want a divided america or my own way all the time. I understand the importance of compromise in a country of 325 million people, none the same.

Others evidently don't that's not my problem. 

 
 
PJ
7.1.5  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

I'm glad you asked.

  • Denouncing Trump's policies openly without fear that I'll offend or lose a friend.  (if they support Trump then they aren't smart enough to be my friend).  
  • Helping register people to vote 
  • Voting Democrat across the board even when it made me sick and gag
  • Donating to Democrats that I share policies views with
  • Reminding others that Trump's base do not represent American values
  • Signing petitions against Republicans
  • Boycotting anything Trump and those affiliated with the Trumps

 
 
321steve
7.1.6  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.5    2 weeks ago

Well Good for you I guess. You are more politically involved than I. Has any of that taken trump down though ? 

I still don't thing even a whole government of dems or libs is the answer either though .

I really do think a mix is best. 

 
 
PJ
7.1.7  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.1.6    2 weeks ago
a mix is best. 

Yes, pre Trump I would have agreed but the republican leadership has proven they cannot be trusted.  Thankfully the democrats are too soft and therefor easily manipulated to do the right thing.  

 
 
WallyW
7.1.8  WallyW  replied to  PJ @7.1.5    2 weeks ago

And yet...you can't clearly define and describe your dissatisfaction for Trump. What programs and policies are you so disturbed about. I don't like the guy either, but he is doing what he was elected to do....trying to protect the country from radical Islam and mobs from Central America, making it easier for companies to create jobs and improving the economy, confirming two Supreme Court justices, etc. I can't understand how some people can take who is president so seriously. It's Congress who does the heavy lifting.

 
 
321steve
7.1.9  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.7    2 weeks ago
the republican leadership has proven they cannot be trusted.  Thankfully the democrats are too soft and therefor easily manipulated to do the right thing.  

I'm expecting many dems to do the bow down to trump real soon. Many of his detractors are fleeing, that's the scariest part. 

IMO: One of the only ways trump is likely to be done besides elections or time is trump himself, I say give this guy all the rope he needs. LET trump be trump.. He's  likely to eventually trump himself right out of office. 

 
 
JBB
7.1.10  JBB  replied to  321steve @7.1.9    2 weeks ago

Why would you ever expect Democrats to suddenly bow to Trumpism?

If it is out of fear for their lives or family all the more reason to resist.

 
 
PJ
7.1.11  PJ  replied to  WallyW @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

How do you know I can't define the policies that I don't like. 

Yeah, right - you don't like the guy.  BS - He's your kinda guy.  A real man's man.  Pussy grabbing and all.

  • Why don't you actually read his trade policy.  It's basically the SAME policy but with a different name.  I'm tired of subsidizing farmers over Trump's asinine trade war and the gullibility of his base.  
  • His policy on murder-vs-making money
  • His practice of appointing people in his cabinet that are not qualified
  • His education policy = reducing the education budget and making America more stupid
  • Where's health care reform?  You remember that, right?  Bigger and better.  Everyone would have healthcare cheaper?  Where's that at?
  • Using the military for political purposes
  • His stupid Wall.  He should be looking for more effective and efficient ways of border control. 
  • Where's his immigration reform?  
  • His Tax Cut to the rich.  

 
 
321steve
7.1.12  321steve  replied to  JBB @7.1.10    2 weeks ago
Why would you ever expect Democrats to suddenly bow to Trump?

Watch and see, they WANT stuff he can help them get, He'll help them get what they want for their support of HIM. The republicans already did this and are still doing it today.  

 
 
JBB
7.1.13  JBB  replied to  321steve @7.1.12    2 weeks ago

I believe you are wrong but we will all find out in about six weeks...

 
 
321steve
7.1.14  321steve  replied to  JBB @7.1.13    2 weeks ago
we will all find out in about six weeks...

I'd give it a little longer. But probably within months of the new congress. 

The funny thing will be, Congress will get what they want , but not so much how they want it. Just like with whats happening with many republicans now. 

trump will have to take it all over or his shelf life is limited. He'll try for it all.  

 
 
PJ
7.1.15  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.1.9    2 weeks ago

It would be colossally stupid if they work with this President.  

 
 
321steve
7.1.16  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.15    2 weeks ago
It would be colossally stupid if they work with this President. 

I look for them to, They want stuff, trump can help make that happen. New roads, schools, bridges.. in fact it probably won't take long. trump knows the sooner he gets them on his side the more likely he is to continue doing what he wants. 

 
 
PJ
7.1.17  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.1.16    2 weeks ago

They should not sell their soul for a deal with this devil.   They must maintain their principles and values or they will be almost as bad as Trump's base.

 
 
321steve
7.1.18  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.1.17    2 weeks ago
They should not sell their soul for a deal with this devil.   They must maintain their principles and values or they will be almost as bad as Trump's base.

I agree, But, I'll bet many of them do. And they will justify it just like the republicans now do.  

 
 
IceMan
7.1.19  IceMan  replied to  PJ @7.1.5    2 weeks ago

I see a hard core Democrat pretending to be an Independent.

 
 
Spikegary
7.1.20  Spikegary  replied to  IceMan @7.1.19    2 weeks ago

Nothiung really new there, we've known this since about November 2016.

 
 
PJ
7.1.21  PJ  replied to  IceMan @7.1.19    2 weeks ago

Wha?!!  Where!!!

PJ looks curiously to the left and right......

 
 
Jack_TX
7.1.22  Jack_TX  replied to  PJ @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
I'm a registered Independent and have always voted by issue but I'm smart enough to know that the fucking house is burning down all around me and it's time to get into the game.

Really now.  Do tell us how your life is in a shambles because of who sits in the White House.  Please.  Regale us with your tales of calamity and woe.

You and other Independents can pretend that you're holier than thou and remain sitting on the fence.  What you don't seem to understand is that you've picked a side by DOING NOTHING.

So yet another angry liberal telling us all that failure to convert to their religion (Liberalism) is somehow immoral and will lead to the end of civilization.  

 
 
PJ
7.1.23  PJ  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.22    2 weeks ago
Really now.  Do tell us how your life is in a shambles because of who sits in the White House.  Please.  Regale us with your tales of calamity and woe.

I'm glad you asked. (Pj settles back in the chaise and get's comfortable)  It all started about 2 years ago.  I was standing around minding my own business when outta no where my hoo-ha was grabbed!  I was like, WHA?!!!  By the time I composed myself and turned around I saw a chubby old white dude with flappy hair and orange skin running away or rather hobbling away.

It was calamity and woe from there on out.

 
 
Jack_TX
7.1.24  Jack_TX  replied to  PJ @7.1.23    2 weeks ago
It was calamity and woe from there on out.

Here.  Have an e-whiskey on me.  

But still...the calamity and woe is pretty much in your imagination, clever and gifted though that may be.

 
 
PJ
7.1.25  PJ  replied to  Jack_TX @7.1.24    2 weeks ago

Pass the e-bottle please.  jrSmiley_68_smiley_image.png

 
 
Jack_TX
7.1.26  Jack_TX  replied to  PJ @7.1.25    2 weeks ago

Have a double.gentleman_jack.jpg

 
 
lennylynx
7.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @7    2 weeks ago

Thank-you for your contribution on behalf of centrists, Steve, and Perrie (hey, together you're Steve Perry!) contributed as well.  The POTUS is a deranged and dangerous lunatic.  The country is in crisis.  Please act accordingly.

 
 
321steve
7.2.1  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @7.2    2 weeks ago
The POTUS is a deranged and dangerous lunatic.  The country is in crisis.  Please act accordingly.

I believe I understand the situation and believe I do act accordingly. For instance I point out the logical reasons for trump's failures often and have for years, for the midterm I did vote for all democrats in the federal part of my ballot. Usually I research all candidates for all the offices and vote for whom I believe is the most qualified, I skipped that this time for the federal offices to maybe help restore the balance of power.  

Being hateful towards trump I dont think is the answer now anymore that it was 4 years ago against obama.  

 
 
lennylynx
7.2.2  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @7.2.1    2 weeks ago

It is outrageous to compare Trump and Obama the way you just did.

 
 
321steve
7.2.3  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.2    2 weeks ago
It is outrageous to compare Trump and Obama the way you just did.

Not so much, they both had their haters. I think its kinda outrageous to not be able to hear or see the word trump and not automatically react negatively. so we're even I guess. 

 
 
WallyW
7.2.4  WallyW  replied to  lennylynx @7.2    2 weeks ago
The POTUS is a deranged and dangerous lunatic.  The country is in crisis.

That opinion is simply an overwrought and emotional statement. There is no reason or logic behind it.

 
 
lennylynx
7.2.5  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @7.2.3    2 weeks ago

You're not helping me lose the fake nose and glasses either Steve...

 
 
321steve
7.2.6  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.5    2 weeks ago
You're not helping me lose the fake nose and glasses either Steve..

Not my job to. You choice to put them on, you can also take them off anytime you choose. 

(they look kinda silly anyway) 

If you are waiting for trumps exit , unfortunately you may have a while. Two years IF he didn't or doesn't fuck up real bad at least.  

I'll bet your nose gets sore from the fake stuff before that. 

 
 
lennylynx
7.2.7  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @7.2.6    2 weeks ago

C'mon Steve, you gotta help me!  I'm starting to get funny looks at the bar...

 
 
PJ
7.2.8  PJ  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.2    2 weeks ago

Steve is a closet Trump supporter.  I said as much to him a couple months ago.  hahahahaha

 
 
321steve
7.2.9  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.7    2 weeks ago
C'mon Steve, you gotta help me!  I'm starting to get funny looks at the bar...

Slip on a mangled dirty raggedy MAGA hat backwards or torch a trumpy bear that'll help.

lol 

 
 
321steve
7.2.10  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.2.8    2 weeks ago
Steve is a closet Trump supporter.  I said as much to him a couple months ago.  hahahahaha

LOL and you were wrong then as well....LOL 

At least you're consistent. 

 
 
PJ
7.2.11  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.2.10    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_68_smiley_image.png

 
 
321steve
7.2.12  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.2.11    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
PJ
7.2.13  PJ  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.7    2 weeks ago

You have nothing to hide from.  You aren't a republican and you aren't part of Trump's base.  Maybe pass the nose and glasses to those who are.  They are the ones who should be embarrassed.

 
 
321steve
7.2.14  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.2.13    2 weeks ago
Maybe pass the nose and glasses to those who are.

I'd include a trumpy bear to make it a complete package. 

 
 
lennylynx
7.2.15  author  lennylynx  replied to  PJ @7.2.13    2 weeks ago

Thanks for the support, PJ, but I refuse to remove the fake nose and glasses until the fake president is removed from office.

 
 
PJ
7.2.16  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.2.14    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif  Stop following me Steve.  You're stealing attention away from my comedy act!  jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

 
 
321steve
7.2.17  321steve  replied to  PJ @7.2.16    2 weeks ago
You're stealing attention away from my comedy act! 

 comedy act ? 

Sorry I thought you were being serious, My suggestion, Don't quit your day job just yet.

lol

 
 
PJ
7.2.18  PJ  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.15    2 weeks ago

Well that might sabotage your ability to pick up the ladies at the bar.  Just saying.....you need to put your priorities in order.  jrSmiley_18_smiley_image.gif

 
 
321steve
7.2.19  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @7.2.15    2 weeks ago
I refuse to remove the fake nose and glasses until the fake president is removed from office.

Ya might want to invest in some nose pads for glasses then unless trump fucks up royal real soon I think unfortunately, you're in for a long wait. 

 
 
PJ
7.2.20  PJ  replied to  321steve @7.2.17    2 weeks ago

hahahahahahahahahaha - deadpan

 
 
lennylynx
7.2.21  author  lennylynx  replied to  PJ @7.2.18    2 weeks ago

That's ok, I'm willing to sacrifice for America...unlike Trump!

 
 
Jack_TX
7.3  Jack_TX  replied to  321steve @7    2 weeks ago
Because that is where usually the sanity and reality resides. 

You mean it's not under the pink vagina hats? 

Well that IS disappointing.....

 
 
321steve
7.3.1  321steve  replied to  Jack_TX @7.3    2 weeks ago
You mean it's not under the pink vagina hats?  Well that IS disappointing.....

LOL, I know. It's also not under the mega hats either, just as disappointing to some. :) 

I guess that's life. 

 
 
Kathleen
8  Kathleen    2 weeks ago

I am a registered Republican as I had said before, however, I am mixed on the issues. I guess on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very conservative and 1 being very liberal, I would call myself a 6. So I am a little over toward the right side politically.  That being said, I did not vote for Trump nor do I condone his behavior towards other people. I also do not condone the behavior of the media and what was going on with both of the party's. So I don't like "anything" about what has be happening for a long time even before Trump became president. I prefer a more moderate President and that is who I voted for in 2016. 

 
 
321steve
8.1  321steve  replied to  Kathleen @8    2 weeks ago

You are not alone Kathleen. 

I was a dem, switched to republican and then dropped them when trump took it over. 

I'm not happy with much of our government these days either. 

 
 
Kathleen
8.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  321steve @8.1    2 weeks ago

Good...

I just cringe about all of it.. 

I really hate trying to explain myself and have others not understand where I am coming from.

 
 
321steve
8.1.2  321steve  replied to  Kathleen @8.1.1    2 weeks ago
I really hate trying to explain myself and have others not understand where I am coming from.

I dont think any of us do. 

I try to give my reasonings in logical fashion, If or when someone either doesn't, can't or chooses not to understand them I dont feel its my fault. 

When questioned respectfully I respond in kind. When Attacked I defend. I dont exspect anyone to fully agree with anything I say, and I seldom agree with everything anyone else says on here as well.  

To each their own, I'm just glad we all don't want all the same or the fight for it would be tremendous. lol 

 
 
freepress
9  freepress    2 weeks ago

We knew we were in trouble when one of the reasons Bush supporters elected him was that "he was the guy they wanted to have a beer with". 

So we went from the guy who was an evangelical, they wanted to have a beer with, and when it all went to smithereens with an economic collapse and wars unpaid for and unwon, these right wing fake grassroots "tea party" nuts pretend they didn't vote for Bush.

In order to correct their "mistake" in voting for Bush, they pick an even worse candidate.

A man who bankrupted several businesses, only had money that was inherited, who was a celebrity fake reality show TV host, a man with multiple failed marriages, a man who flaunts his ability to sexually harass women and pay off women to keep his affairs quiet, a man who would rather use taxpayer money to fly to his own properties and his own golf courses rather than serve the people.

So right wing voters went from a guy they wanted to have a beer with who was a failure to a man who wouldn't have a beer with them if his life depended on it, and a man who willfully wastes their taxpayer dollars enriching his own wallet.

There is no center in the Republican party. They are now openly grifting, openly displaying distaste for their own constituents, suppressing the vote, gerrymandering, and clinging to the farthest right of their party knowing this is not going to last.

 
 
321steve
10  321steve    2 weeks ago

So, Which political party would run the country better ? .............................

Maybe I'll join it. 

sarc

 
 
lennylynx
10.1  author  lennylynx  replied to  321steve @10    2 weeks ago

The Republican party has not been a viable choice since Reagan, even if you're a conservative.  They are completely and utterly corrupt.  They don't WANT to do the right thing by the American people; they KNOW that they are not.  They are nothing but a weapon of the corporate elite.  If you still can't see this, you never will.

 
 
321steve
10.1.1  321steve  replied to  lennylynx @10.1    2 weeks ago
even if you're a conservative

Part of me does want to hold on to what I think is already good about America though so ...

and I'm not sure the other side is all that right all the time either.

Free college for anyone and everyone ?  Really, I've spent a little time in college classrooms it was pretty easy to determine which people were paying for it themselves and which ones were on someone else's dime.  

IMO: Stupid crap like that is why I stay as neutral as I can. Both parties have gone too far, Free college would ruin the colleges and the degrees would become worthless.  Education itself would suffer because of too many screw offs !!

As I see it that's not the only hairbrained idea many liberals have. (Dems)

I want the country to move forward but use some damn common since ta boot. I think that is exactly why we need a good mix. 

Neither party has all the answers.  We 're lucky if and when together they can find shit that works now.  A one party government would actually be the end of America and the beginning of a new kind of government. I think that would be a huge mistake !

So considering I believe  neither party has all the answers and neither party is all bad I'll hang out here in the middle. 

I hate seeing the parties at each others throats all the time though, i do wish you folks could understand that's now probably how the founding fathers wanted it to be. 

United we stand devided we fall. I think is more than mir words. Time will tell. 

 

 
 
Trout Giggles
10.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  321steve @10.1.1    2 weeks ago

Anytime I hear someone say "free" I cringe.

Nothing is free.

 
 
Jack_TX
10.1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  lennylynx @10.1    2 weeks ago
The Republican party has not been a viable choice since Reagan, even if you're a conservative. 

What on earth would you know about being a conservative?  

 
 
lennylynx
10.1.4  author  lennylynx  replied to  Jack_TX @10.1.3    2 weeks ago

A hell of a lot more than you do if you think what Trump is doing is conservatism.  Did you take the quiz that determined where you stand politically?  I landed on Gandhi's dot along with Raven and some other left leaning centrists.  We aren't far left.  If I told you right wing dingbats what I thought of the welfare system, you'd probably fall off your computer chairs.

Every person with his head screwed on straight realizes what a complete and total horror show Trump is, including MILLIONS OF STAUNCH CONSERVATIVES.  Time to pull your head out, Jack, Trump is a total piece of fucking shit.  He isn't fit to run a lemonade stand much less a country.

 
 
tomwcraig
10.1.5  tomwcraig  replied to  lennylynx @10.1.4    2 weeks ago

I'm slightly right of center according to those tests and I consider myself a Conservative Republican with Libertarian leanings.  I agree with most of Trump's policies as these are policies that should have been in effect since Ronald Reagan's tenure as President, especially regarding illegal immigration.  I love legal immigrants and if they want to become citizens so much the better.  However, until they become citizens they should not have the right to vote or really gain access to our financial and health safety nets.  Charity begins at home and we have many homeless and poor people that are citizens that should be first in line not bumped to the back because someone came from another country, particularly illegally.

EDIT: By the way, lenny, when are you going to answer the questions I put to you in comment 3.3.22?

 
 
Jack_TX
10.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  lennylynx @10.1.4    one week ago
A hell of a lot more than you do if you think what Trump is doing is conservatism.

You really should't attempt to guess what I think.  

  Did you take the quiz that determined where you stand politically?

I don't need a quiz.  I'm well aware.

  I landed on Gandhi's dot along with Raven and some other left leaning centrists.

Riiiiiiight.

We aren't far left.

Your enormous number of leftist comments would contradict that idea.  Further, you most certainly have a Trump fixation.  You also regularly display stereotypical young leftist characteristics....like being judgemental of people who don't share your "feelings".

  If I told you right wing dingbats what I thought of the welfare system, you'd probably fall off your computer chairs.

Well what are you waiting for?  

Every person with his head screwed on straight realizes what a complete and total horror show Trump is, including MILLIONS OF STAUNCH CONSERVATIVES.

Adults....meaning people with adult level emotional control....realize several things.  1.  Whether we like him or not, he's the president.  2.  Whether we like him or not, he's going to be president until 2021.  3.  The office of the president isn't actually all that powerful when it comes to the daily lives of Americans.  It's set up that way on purpose.  4.  The economy is good, bills are getting paid, people have jobs, we're not at war, and he has yet to appear wearing a Speedo in a Pitbull video....so things could be a lot worse.

  Time to pull your head out, Jack,

And here you are again with the personal attack on someone who doesn't validate your "feelings".  Unless we're all hysterical like you, something must be wrong with us.  This kind of bullshit is the realm of teenage girls, and unless you are one you should give it up and actually try to understand people who think differently than you do.

Trump is a total piece of fucking shit.  He isn't fit to run a lemonade stand much less a country.

And he is your president. 

 
 
IceMan
11  IceMan    2 weeks ago

lennylynx is John Russell's pen name.