'I just want to find 11,780 votes': In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor
By: Amy Gardner (MSN)
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
'I just want to find 11,780 votes': In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor
President Trump urged fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia secretary of state, to "find" enough votes to overturn his defeat in an extraordinary one-hour phone call Saturday that election experts said raised legal questions.
The Washington Post obtained a recording of the conversation in which Trump alternately berated Raffensperger, tried to flatter him, begged him to act and threatened him with vague criminal consequences if the secretary of state refused to pursue his false claims, at one point warning that Raffensperger was taking "a big risk."
Throughout the call, Raffensperger and his office's general counsel rejected Trump's assertions, explaining that the president is relying on debunked conspiracy theories and that President-elect Joe Biden's 11,779-vote victory in Georgia was fair and accurate.
Trump dismissed their arguments.
"The people of Georgia are angry, the people in the country are angry," he said. "And there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, um, that you've recalculated."
Raffensperger responded: "Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is, the data you have is wrong."
At another point, Trump said: "So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state."
The rambling and at times incoherent conversation offered a remarkable glimpse of how consumed and desperate the president remains about his loss, unwilling or unable to let the matter go and still believing he can reverse the results in enough battleground states to remain in office.
"There's no way I lost Georgia," Trump said, a phrase he repeated again and again on the call. "There's no way. We won by hundreds of thousands of votes."
Several of his allies were on the line as he spoke, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and conservative lawyer Cleta Mitchell, a prominent GOP attorney whose involvement with Trump's efforts had not been previously known.
In a statement, Mitchell said Raffensperger's office "has made many statements over the past two months that are simply not correct and everyone involved with the efforts on behalf of the President's election challenge has said the same thing: show us your records on which you rely to make these statements that our numbers are wrong."
The White House, the Trump campaign and Meadows did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Raffensperger's office declined to comment.
On Sunday, Trump tweeted that he had spoken to Raffensperger, saying the secretary of state was "unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the 'ballots under table' scam, ballot destruction, out of state 'voters', dead voters, and more. He has no clue!"
Raffensperger responded with his own tweet: "Respectfully, President Trump: What you're saying is not true."
The pressure Trump put on Raffensperger is the latest example of his attempt to subvert the outcome of the Nov. 3 election through personal outreach to state Republican officials. He previously invited Michigan Republican state leaders to the White House, pressured Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) in a call to try to replace that state's electors and asked the speaker of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives to help reverse his loss in that state.
His call to Raffensperger came as scores of Republicans have pledged to challenge the electoral college's vote for Biden when Congress convenes for a joint session on Wednesday. Republicans do not have the votes to successfully thwart Biden's victory, but Trump has urged supporters to travel to Washington to protest the outcome, and state and federal officials are already bracing for clashes outside the Capitol.
During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state's general counsel, suggesting that if they don't find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.
"That's a criminal offense," he said. "And you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer."
Trump also told Raffensperger that failure to act by Tuesday would jeopardize the political fortunes of David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, Georgia's two Republican senators whose fate in that day's runoff elections will determine control of the U.S. Senate.
Trump said he plans to talk about the fraud on Monday, when he is scheduled to lead an election eve rally in Dalton, Ga. — a message that could further muddle the efforts of Republicans to get their voters out.
"You have a big election coming up and because of what you've done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam," Trump said. "Because of what you've done to the president, a lot of people aren't going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they're going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this can be straightened out before the election."
Trump's conversation with Raffensperger put him in legally questionable territory, legal experts said. By exhorting the secretary of state to "find" votes and to deploy investigators who "want to find answers," Trump appears to be encouraging him to doctor the election outcome in Georgia.
But experts said Trump's clearer transgression is a moral one. Edward B. Foley, a law professor at Ohio State University, said that the legal questions are murky and would be subject to prosecutorial discretion. But he also emphasized that the call was "inappropriate and contemptible" and should prompt moral outrage.
"He was already tripping the emergency meter," Foley said. "So we were at 12 on a scale of 1 to 10, and now we're at 15."
Throughout the call, Trump detailed an exhaustive list of disinformation and conspiracy theories to support his position. He claimed without evidence that he had won Georgia by at least a half-million votes. He floated a barrage of assertions that have been investigated and disproved: that thousands of dead people voted; that an Atlanta election worker scanned 18,000 forged ballots three times each and "100 percent" were for Biden; that thousands more voters living out of state came back to Georgia illegally just to vote in the election.
"So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it's not fair to take it away from us like this," Trump said. "And it's going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you're going to reexamine it, and you can reexamine it, but reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people who don't want to find answers."
Trump did most of the talking on the call. He was angry and impatient, calling Raffensperger a "child" and "either dishonest or incompetent" for not believing there was widespread ballot fraud in Atlanta — and twice calling himself a "schmuck" for endorsing Kemp, whom Trump holds in particular contempt for not embracing his claims of fraud.
"I can't imagine he's ever getting elected again, I'll tell you that much right now," he said.
He also took aim at Kemp's 2018 opponent, Democrat Stacey Abrams, trying to shame Raffensperger with the idea that his refusal to embrace fraud has helped her and Democrats generally. "Stacey Abrams is laughing about you," he said. "She's going around saying, 'These guys are dumber than a rock.' What she's done to this party is unbelievable, I tell you."
The secretary of state repeatedly sought to push back, saying at one point, "Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, that — people can say anything."
"Oh this isn't social media," Trump retorted. "This is Trump media. It's not social media. It's really not. It's not social media. I don't care about social media. I couldn't care less."
At another point, Trump claimed that votes were scanned three times: "Brad, why did they put the votes in three times? You know, they put 'em in three times."
Raffensperger responded: "Mr. President, they did not. We did an audit of that and we proved conclusively that they were not scanned three times."
Trump sounded at turns confused and meandering. At one point, he referred to Kemp as "George." He tossed out several different figures for Biden's margin of victory in Georgia and referred to the Senate runoff, which is Tuesday, as happening "tomorrow" and "Monday."
His desperation was perhaps most pronounced during an exchange with Germany, Raffensperger's general counsel, in which he openly begged for validation.
Trump: "Do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County? 'Cause that's what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery. Do you know anything about that? Because that's illegal."
Germany responded: "No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County."
Trump: "But have they moved the inner parts of the machines and replaced them with other parts?"
Germany: "No."
Trump: "Are you sure? Ryan?"
Germany: "I'm sure. I'm sure, Mr. President."
It was clear from the call that Trump has surrounded himself with aides who have fed his false perceptions that the election was stolen. When he claimed that more than 5,000 ballots were cast in Georgia in the name of dead people, Raffensperger responded forcefully: "The actual number was two. Two. Two people that were dead that voted."
But later, Meadows said, "I can promise you there are more than that."
Another Trump lawyer on the call, Kurt Hilbert, accused Raffensperger's office of refusing to turn over data to assess evidence of fraud, and also claimed awareness of at least 24,000 illegally cast ballots that would flip the result to Trump.
"It stands to reason that if the information is not forthcoming, there's something to hide," Hilbert said. "That's the problem that we have."
Reached by phone Sunday, Hilbert declined to comment.
In the end, Trump asked Germany to sit down with one of his attorneys to go over the allegations. Germany agreed.
Yet Trump also recognized that he was failing to persuade Raffensperger or Germany of anything, saying toward the end, "I know this phone call is going nowhere."
But he continued to make his case in repetitive fashion, until finally, after roughly an hour, Raffensperger put an end to the conversation: "Thank you, President Trump, for your time."
Alice Crites contributed to this report.
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Sick and sad...
a desperate toxic narcissist that is being cornered, with no place left to run and no taxpayer provided legal protection, in little more than 2 weeks.
But of course his followers will think nothing of it. That too is sick and sad
But of course his followers will think nothing of it. That too is sick and sad
Obviously they have no hesitancy about breaking the law-- or even about doing something that violating the Constitution.
Telling him to find just enough votes to give him a win...
Unbelievable.
And people follow and worship the piece of shit.
And they "think" an election commission is going to do what...NOTHING
Buy them a cover story for their failed attempts at a coup
In a statement, Mitchell said Raffensperger's office "has made many statements over the past two months that are simply not correct
Well, obviously therefore-- Raffensperger must be a...SOCIALIST!
(A typical "Socialist"-- like all Democrats!
/sarc
You expect any more from a lying, morally bankrupt half-assed reality host?
I think the morality clauses in any future broadcast contracts trump signs are going to be a bit tricky to execute, even assuming he can do appearances from jail. he probably will need to spend his "stop the steal" legal defense scam money on buying a media outlet so he can be on TV.
If America actually was a great and exceptional nation, instead of what it is, a nation in steady decline, the leaders in Congress from both parties would meet with members of Trump's cabinet and discuss the procedure for removing him from office immediately.
The very fact that he can plot a traitorous course with so little public opposition is a giant red flag that our country is in a desperate situation and will be until Trumpism is defeated and banished to a hell where it belongs.
Wow, how blatant. How can anyone support this despicable con-man?
He has no facts, just 'rumors'. When given the facts by those who would know, he merely tells them they are wrong. It is incredible. Almost like some of the irrational 'arguments' here on NT. But this is the PotUS, not a mere social media forum poster.
Just a guess-- but I suspect many of them are just as severely mentally ill as Trump himself...
Being naive perhaps, and not an American, at first I thought Trump was going to be okay when he kept his promises about Israel, but then he took the wrong fork in the road, and he sure as hell lost me. Why can't the Trump supporters on this site have the maturity and intelligence to admit they are now wrong about Trump - maybe you're right about them. When I was a kid, I can remember a doctor friend of my father saying that the only reason the insane are locked up and we're out here is because we're in the majority. I'm beginning to think he was at least partially correct. The problem is that the USA doesn't have enough insane asylums to house the ones who really need to be there.
We can thank Ronald Reagan for closing down all the mental health facilities.
All of the former patients then turned republican and worshiped him as a god.
Could you imagine if this were reversed and it was Joe Biden refusing to concede even though all the evidence showed Trump had won 306 electoral college votes and won in the battleground States by over 350,000 and the popular vote by more than 7 million and there was zero evidence of any widespread voter fraud? And what would those Trump supporters here on NT be saying if Biden was recorded calling the Georgia Secretary of State and asking him to "find" 11,780 votes in a desperate attempt to flip the results? Is there any doubt that they would be demanding Biden's immediate arrest and prosecution? Conservative Republican hypocrisy truly knows no bounds.
They simply don't consider liberals, secularists, and Others outside of their worldview as having any value they ought to respect anymore. Listen to their parlance closely: "American people" in the tongue of a Trump conservative excludes liberals, secularists, and Others. Moreover, you can just pick the expression and observe that it does not apply to you or me!
And who with an ounce of patriotism and love of country is shocked over this recording........ It shouldn't take a recording for patriots to realize what this administration has been doing to the country for over 4 years.
I would imagine Trump supporters are being Trump supporters and echoing all that he said. Because, from their point of view, he is in the right and correct in his assertions. He isn't as a point of fact, but that does not sway the truly devoted. Trump does not lie or cheat or steal. His is the most perfect administration in several decades, probably in all time and if it were not for the deep state and several demonic, democratic socialist plots to drink his unfiltered urine there would be the greatest nation brought forth on this continent that the world has ever seen... Trump told me so.
Trump is his supporters- "Hatchet-man." Plain and simple. They like Donald's lack of compassion for anybody but themselves.
I would suggest that Trump pull those votes out of his ass, but his big orange head is already taking up residence there.
you'd have to part a sea of house and senate noses to find the asshole on that asshole.
Was is really sick is under normal circumstances or anyone else and this stunt would have been career ending.
trumpers seem to embrace it.
His asshole is located from the neck up.
That is one nasty looking pie hole!
I have not read down the article yet, will later.
Can I just say that Georgia's Secretary of State is one good model of a Republican/Conservative. Integrity personified. Three Cheers!
A motion to censure Trump is going to be introduced in the House tomorrow.
I guess it's too late for another impeachment, in this case for sedition.
It's too late. They could rush something through, I guess, but what would be the point? It's easier to censure and get that on the record.
Not that I'm doubting you, but do you have a link to an article?
Not that you're doubting me, but... (Ha!)
Thanks, G. I've got the full audio of the phone call playing on another tab. Trump is criminally insane.
Yes, he is. I don't see how he can avoid prosecution. He will probably plead not guilty by reason of insanity... exacerbated by severe bone spur syndrome.
I think the insanity is due to tertiary syphilis.
I wanna see if that defense works. I may use for it later on
Censure????
He has earned removal from office!
He does, and he will be removed from office by the American people on January 20th.
Pelosi should start impeachment proceedings.
She has much better evidence this time.
The recording is enough.
There isn't enough time, but for the principle!
There was very clear evidence the first time. Too much apathy from the American people.
It is a little interesting to watch the progression of Trump scandals. Trump's attempt to get a foreign government to influence an American election (the Ukraine affair) bolstered the idea that he had colluded or tried to collude with Russia in 2016. Now his phone call with the Secretary of State of Georgia where Trump tries for an hour to get that official to go along with Trumps scheme to invalidate the election bolsters the perception of Trumps willingness to tamper with officials (such as the Ukrainian president) to get his way. It all fits together and the pieces all corroborate each other.
It becomes part of his sordid legacy. His presidency is definitely one for the history books. And we thought Harding was bad.
Got a great themesong for Trump....
And here's another one....
.
History is written by the winner. We'll have to wait for Chinese historians...
How quickly they forget - you still have the denial of any Russian collusion or his impeachment, when the impeachment was actually over the Ukraine 'perfect phone call', right?
Given the overwhelming evidence-- didya ever wonder how people still support him?
What's up with that?
Man, I’d love to see video of Raffensperger’s face during this call. Particularly the part where Trump tells him that he is breaking the law, as Trump is actively breaking the law himself.
trump is probably too fucking stupid to realize that what he was doing was against the law and all of the ass lickers he surrounds himself with are too cowardly to tell him so.
“Probably” is being too kind. As I’ve been told my entire life, ignorance of the law is no excuse. How sad for the Republican Party that their leader is so incredibly fucking stupid.
It's not simply stupidity. Trump literally cannot integrate the fact that he lost.
An incapacity to see reality, to this degree, is pathological. I wonder if Trump will "vanish" into a comfortable retirement surrounded by sycophants, parasites, and doctors with large-caliber neuroleptics...
It should be grounds for immediate removal as that is clearly a national security threat. But instead, we are treated to kid-glove treatment like Purdue going on Fox News to deride the leaking of this phone call with the esteemed POTUS.
They're taking Americans for fools. They're probably right.
His supporters at any rate. . .
That became clear when a racist xenophobic carnival barker became POTUS in the first place.
That's probably the best that can be said about Bunker Boy.
Donald Trump is stupid, because he wants to be. What he is-is deliberate. Donald is that Trumphole that does what he wants, because there is somebody to always come along and hold up his ball-sac before it grinds!
The situation is Donald Trumphole finally got clear that his ASS is headed into real world traffic without a 'car bumper,' and more importantly HISTORIANS are going to CEMENT Trumphole as the biggest LOSER of all time. And, there is recent realization by Trumphole there is nothing he can do to stop that.
Now as to what he does not understand, that would be this: This transactional man can't get it clear in his moralless head that other politicians and judges are not merely "transacting" with him. That is, they did not take their jobs will any intention whatsoever to be "just a phone-call away when you need me."
That is my opinion of why he is active about this right now.
You should listen to the tape. There are segments where you can hear his befuddlement, incapable of understanding "I lost".
I am listening to the whole thing now. He refuses to hear the truth and even calls them a child at one point.
He is delusional.
"Why do you keep fighting this thing, I just need so and so votes, why can't you give it to me..."
Ok, Now after listening this far, it is blatant what he is doing.
Anyone that defends this is just as delusional as donald.
There should actually be some kind of investigation into him and his criminal enterprise.
He even has the gall to accuse 'Brad' of being a criminal and breaking the law...
*FULL CALL* Trump Calls Georgia Secretary of State, "Come On Give Me A Break Guys, I Won"
I am listening to this right now! (Half way through.) Is this is a thief desperate to steal from Black people in Fulton County their right to vote. Why? Because he is invoking White Privilege for which Black people should not have any 'leg' to stand on in the law (in a red state). Now, Trumphole is actually arguing 'articulately' demonstrating that he is lucid enough to attempt to manipulate the Secretary of State Georgia.
Thankfully, Georgia republicans have some real integrity. This attempt blew up in Donald's face! And I could not be happier. Donald Trump is the worse human being I know of to ever occupy the presidency!
It is blatant, plain and simple. Why is Donald Trump doing most of the talking, while his "people" listen. I will tell you why: No one can 'hustle' for his cause better than Trump when looking to make a 'mark.'
Now this: How can ballots be counted and approved for state and federal republicans, but not be for Trump? Only possible, if they were not stained by erasures, or stained by modification. What that means is voters in Georgia wanted their other continuous officials, but they did not want a lying, cheating, thief with the power to protect lives from the Coronavirus who did not do so! Thousands dead and dying and this sorry creepy fool of a president can only think about his pathetic worsening chances - as he is tossed back into irrelevancy and out of the limelight of world attention.
Donald Trump is a USER of users. Georgia Secretary of State has this Son of H's number and he won't let him break his integrity. Great on Georgia and this one set of republicans.
Okay, after 37 minutes I cannot stand to listen to another word of this. I can only imagine what it must be like trying to do business with Trump. He accepts only that which favors his objectives and stubbornly repeats his arguments and bullshit facts no matter how many times he is shown to be wrong.
This is the modus operandi of others (even here on NT), but they are harmless. Trump, in contrast, continues to be in positions of power. Good thing he has lost the presidency but he still has a lot of influence.
When I was listening to it [yes I listened to the whole thing], I tried to imagine what the reaction would be if it were Joe Biden making that call.
For one thing, EVERY conservative on this site would have posted a seed about it.
As we can see, not one has made a peep on this seed.
I think those who are ashamed of what Trump is doing realize that they cannot admit that without dealing with the next question which is: 'why then do you continue to support Trump?'. That is a tough question to answer and they probably are not ready to drop their support of Trump. Continuing to support Trump after acknowledging that his con is despicable is much harder than simply pretending that this may not really be a con and that the election 'might' have been stolen after all.
Frankly, I think that game is a very poor choice. It is blatantly obvious that Trump is a lying, narcissistic sack of shit whose ego cannot handle losing the election (making him one of his despised losers). He thus will never admit defeat and will continue to put forth this 'rigged election' wall to hide behind for the rest of his life and will even detail it in his memoirs. Those who continue to not recognize Trump's con look foolish. Those, however, who go to the next step and repeatedly claim that Trump is correct are implicitly declaring that they are either incredibly gullible, stupid or both.
Some people have no shame.
They are without conscience and incapable of shame.
Those that do have turned their backs on Trump long ago.
No one can support Trump after these 4 years and try to claim to be clean of the shit he creates.
... and that's a big problem.
There are surely a lot of Trumpists who have realized / are realizing that they've been fools. But there's a chasm between realizing and admitting.
Nobody likes to admit to having been a fool. Many would prefer to continue to be fools.
I imagine he'll try.
But too succeed they'll have to find a prison for him that has all those sorts of people there!
Well there's an old saying:
A Fool and his Mind are easily parted.
It is said that President Trump made eighteen attempts to speak with the Secretary of State Georgia only successful at getting this one 'opportunity' for which "the President" attempted to verbally man-handle the Secretary! And at the same time gaslight the Sec. Donald's denial could stem from some sore of (personal) mania, and it may be self-imposed over a lifetime.
And, the 'shift' in position and commenting will begin quite readily on January 20th. I would venture that comments are already made up and are held in abeyance until that date. Then, they will burst open and blossom on NT and the media sites of this country. "Peeps" will give way to uproar and forsaken conservative outrage will be voque-ish.
It has been observed that once an individual mitigates shame, everything is do-able. All that is left is to enjoy any activity to its hilt. These pols want to 'inherit' Trump's base. For that, they must have a blessing from the man himself. It is likely why Pence is paralyzed for the cause.
Oh to be a fly on the wall in that room!
I would love to see the notes that Ryan Germany took.
Trump is coo coo for coco puffs.
Obama's solicitor general said Trump talked 'like a mafia boss, and not a particularly smart mafia boss' one in his call with Georgia's elections chief
Georgia Secretary Of State Says Trump's Election Data Is 'Just Plain Wrong'
Ha!!!!
What I find interesting is that he has been outed by this recording (as he was with the recording with Bob Woodward) with his own voice saying absolutely unsupportable statements, openly argues that voter fraud has been committed with zero evidence to back it up, yet so many Americans agree with his and his administration's (Pompeo in particular) accusations about China, Chinese diplomats (Houston Consulate), Chinese corporations (Huawei, TikTok, WeChat) and its people (such as its scientists and even students) AGAIN without evidence or proof shown save for one or two incidents of spying (which many nations including the USA does, and the covering up accusation that I have agreed with). I think there is a latent fear and hatred of Chinese people as there has been from the time they were brought to the USA to work on the railroads - as well indicated by the Chinese Exclusion Act and a lot of cartoons I won't post here, but have done so in the past.
One of things that I find so fascinating is that depsite the fact that he has absolutely no evidence for any of his accusation-- je still has a large group of followers that believe his every word.
In fact, his followers are just like some bizarro extremist religious cult,
Well... DUH, Krishna! Are you really just now realizing that? Or did this post slip through a time portal from three years ago?
Trump wanted to be President in the worst way. He succeeded.
And now he wants to be a Dictator. However, he won't succeed. And he will become even more insane. But, the thing I am most worried about is once he realizes that he will not be able to stay in the WH, he might decide to make America a villain, and create a huge disaster for Biden to deal with, and that is by pressing the nuclear war button, then walk out of the WH and go play golf at Mar-A-Lago, and leave Biden to deal with the results.
Just my thoughts. I do hope that he will not be that indane, but, he is that vindictive and uncaring of human life other than his own.
Find 11,780 votes? Where Mr. President, under the sofa? Sounds like you want the ballots to just suddenly appear just like you claim the ballots for Biden did. Of course in that case you called it “stealing the election”.
Sounds like a call for Chicago style ballot stuffing politics to me. I thought you wanted to drain that swamp Mr. President, not take a page from that Democratic political machine playbook.
Enough of this dumbfuckery already!