Black flag: Understanding the Trumpists' latest threatening symbol

  
Via:  Devangelical  •  2 months ago  •  77 comments

By:   Chauncey DeVega (MSN)

Black flag: Understanding the Trumpists' latest threatening symbol
Trump zealots have begun flying black U.S. flags, which signal no quarter for enemies. It's a threat of violence

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S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



It's an old truism that the "real bad men" (and bad women) "move in silence and violence." That's certainly true for the most dangerous and most effective of Donald Trump's allies, henchmen, henchwomen, and other followers. But for Donald Trump himself, and most of his political cult, that rule does not apply.

Trump and his followers were loud, exuberant and enthusiastic on Jan. 6. The lethal attack on the Capitol had been publicly announced weeks in advance, and should have come as no surprise. Trump's rallies and gatherings continue to celebrate violence and the prospect of revenge — and specifically of "getting even" with Trump's "enemies."

Steve Bannon, Trump's former campaign chairman and White House strategist, has now threatened to recruit Republican-fascist "shock troops" with the apparent goal of undermining the U.S. government, and by implication multiracial democracy, if and when Trump and the Republicans regain control of both Congress and the White House.

On a daily basis Fox News and other elements of the right-wing disinformation propaganda machine use stochastic terrorism and other techniques to radicalize their audience into committing acts of political violence. To this point, the Democratic Party and the political and news media class in general have remained in denial, and largely passive in response.

In one troubling new development, Trump supporters have begun flying all-black American flags, in an implicit threat to harm or kill their opponents — meaning nonwhite people, "socialist liberals," Muslims, vaccinated people and others deemed to be "enemies" of "real America." As media critic Eric Boehlert recently noted, the liberal opinion site Living Blue in Texas is sounding the alarm about the specific meaning of the black flag and the Republican-fascists support for terrorism and other political violence. That post, "Are Your Republican Neighbors Planning on Killing You?", merits lengthy quotation:


It didn't take long to find hundreds of videos where these Trumpers and so-called patriots were hanging black American flags. ...

Black American flags are the flags that mean "no quarter shall be given." They are the opposite of the white flag of surrender.

According to the people on TikTok and the Sun (British tabloid), the black American flag originated in the civil war and was flown by the Confederates.

It means that they will not surrender, will not take prisoners, and are willing to die for their cause. It means they will execute their enemies.

Who are their enemies? Pretty much any non-Conservative. You know, Democrats, Liberals, LGBTQ, BIPOC, and the vaccinated. ...

So, we're the enemy, and they're openly professing to want to execute us. … So, why are they doing this

Covid vaccinations, mostly. They believe that Joe Biden has declared a civil war on them by mandating that employers with over 100 employees and the military have vaccinations.

Yes, they say civil war, and they say it's already started. But, unfortunately, many of them also live in states where masks and vaccines are required by state governments, healthcare, and law enforcement.

An alarming number of military members have been making Tik Toks talking about how they are being discharged because they refuse the vaccine. It's alarming because there is probably an equal number of guys on there talking about the civil war plans and actively using Tik Tok to recruit these military and ex-military members.

The biggest message they have been sending out is, "it's time" or "the time is now." ...

Although showing guns on Tik Tok is supposed to be against community guidelines, they show lots of videos of their guns, shooting them, wearing them, or sitting on their bed.

They primarily use Tik Tok as a recruiting tool and let others know their willingness to commit violence. Then they tell people to message them or where to find them on Telegram.

However you interpret these videos posted by Trump followers and other neofascists — which could be mainly performative — it is clearly true that the American right is increasingly willing to accept or condone violence as a means of expanding and protecting their social and political power. (Salon did not find licensed news photographs of these flags, and has made the editorial decision not to reproduce the images mentioned above, which are easy to find on social media.)

Public opinion polls and other research have repeatedly shown that millions of Republican voters and Trump followers would support the use of violence to remove Joe Biden from office because of the "Big Lie" and their belief that that he is not a legitimate president. Similarly, a large proportion of Republicans believe that the rioters who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 were "patriots" whose use of violence was justified.

And a new poll from the University of Virginia's Center for Politics even suggests that more than 50 percent of Trump supporters want "red states" to secede from the Union. Republican elected officials and other right-wing opinion leaders have continued to escalate their threats of political violence against Democrats and other targeted groups.

In a recent speech to the North Carolina Faith and Freedom Coalition's "Salt & Light" conference, Rep. Madison Cawthorn, R-N.C., issued what sounded like a declaration of war:


It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows to say, "No longer are we going to allow our culture to be determined by people who hate the things that we believe in…. We are going to stand valiantly for God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government. Because, my friends, if we lose this country today, if we bend the knee to the Democrats today, our country will be lost forever, our children will never know what freedom is. It's our duty to stand up, Let us stand united as men and women of faith to fight for our country.

During an interview with MSNBC's Joy Reid, terrorism and national security expert Malcolm Nance said that Cawthorn's video "picks up on the themes that are not just coming from the Steve Bannon level and Donald Trump level, they are coming from the Republican street — and that Republican street is armed. They're angry. They have been fed an entire line which makes them believe that America is no longer America and that they no longer want the America that the rest of us, the 60 percent of the country, live in. And they`re willing to take up arms for it."

Nance also noted that Cawthorn's propaganda video is thematically similar to the type of propaganda used by Islamic terrorist groups such as ISIS and al-Qaida to radicalize and recruit members.

During an interview with Scientific American magazine, Dr. Bandy Lee, the principal editor of the 2017 bestseller "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump," explained how a mentally pathological leader can "infect" his followers and perhaps even an entire nation:


I have outlined two major emotional drives: narcissistic symbiosis and shared psychosis. Narcissistic symbiosis refers to the developmental wounds that make the leader-follower relationship magnetically attractive. The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence — while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure. When such wounded individuals are given positions of power, they arouse similar pathology in the population that creates a "lock and key" relationship….
"Shared psychosis" — which is also called "folie a millions" ["madness for millions"] when occurring at the national level or "induced delusions" — refers to the infectiousness of severe symptoms that goes beyond ordinary group psychology. When a highly symptomatic individual is placed in an influential position, the person's symptoms can spread through the population through emotional bonds, heightening existing pathologies and inducing delusions, paranoia and propensity for violence — even in previously healthy individuals. The treatment is removal of exposure.

Trump and his regime gave permission and encouragement to his followers and other supporters to engage in antisocial and other anti-human behavior on a national scale. Once such a process has begun, and those forces are unleashed, it is not easy to stop. Fascism is not a simple machine with an on-and-off switch. In practice, fascism is given life and takes corporeal form through its followers, with each one being a potential carrier of the pathology.

As Hussein Ibish warned in a recent article in the Atlantic, "The cancer of political violence is not an endemic American disease. At the moment, it is a Republican disease. No one but Republicans themselves can cure it. Until they do, the violence of the right is only going to keep swelling and crashing. From a Middle Eastern perspective, this is all appallingly familiar."

Fascism is a highly virulent social disease that usually destroys the host body - but not before spreading the disease to many other people. In fact, if the original host dies, he or she can be elevated to the status of martyr for "the cause," serving to inspire existing followers and lure in new ones.

Ultimately, Donald Trump, like other fascist and authoritarian leaders, is the symptom of a sick society. Trumpism is not actually the core disease. For America to counteract the deep underlying illness that has made Trumpism possible will require a long-term cultural and moral reckoning. Anything less, and the disease of American fascism will only go dormant until it is resurrected again — perhaps in a more dangerous and virulent form.

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devangelical
Professor Principal
1  seeder  devangelical    2 months ago

Rep. Madison Cawthorn, R-N.C., issued what sounded like a declaration of war:


It is time for the American Christian church to come out of the shadows to say, "No longer are we going to allow our culture to be determined by people who hate the things that we believe in…. We are going to stand valiantly for God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government. Because, my friends, if we lose this country today, if we bend the knee to the Democrats today, our country will be lost forever, our children will never know what freedom is. It's our duty to stand up, Let us stand united as men and women of faith to fight for our country.

what a insurrectionist jerk with no concept of the 1st amendment. what is it with these teabag domestic terrorists always threatening civil war whenever they don't get their way politically? are they defending their warped version of the constitution, again?

please help keep christo-fascism and white supremacy off the NT front page by commenting and voting up seeds like this one - thank you

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1    2 months ago
what a insurrectionist jerk with no concept of the 1st amendment.

Seems like he understands the First Amendment perfectly well, as he exercised it with his statement.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1.1  seeder  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1    2 months ago

I guess you missed these parts...

We are going to stand valiantly for God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government. It's our duty to stand up, Let us stand united as men and women of faith to fight for our country.

meh, I'm cool with going to church to prey.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.1.1    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @1.1.1    2 months ago
God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government.

So..is he talking the days of Noah? Is he willing to go as far back as Adam and Eve? (if they existed)

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.1.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.2    2 months ago
Even politicians you don't like can voice their opinions in this country.

True, everyone has the freedom to say what they want and voice their opinions. But freedom of speech does not mean it must be free of criticism. Others have every right to criticize those opinions.

Seems like he understands the First Amendment perfectly well

While he's availing himself of that constitutionally protected right, he's also saying that he doesn't respect the constitution as he says "We are going to stand valiantly for God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government." So according to him, the bible comes first which means he is promoting the idea that America should really be a theocracy with "American Christians" large and in charge as they had been for over two hundred years. Only in the last 50 years was the spotlight moved away from them and focused on social justice, individual freedom, minority rights and a move towards secularism and away from white Christian male control.

if we bend the knee to the Democrats today, our country will be lost forever, our children will never know what freedom is

What a jumble of horse shit. Democrats are Americans too, they are just as deserving of being a part of this country and expressing themselves as any right wing Christian conservative. What this bigoted conservative is saying is that he only sees American as the property and possession of white Christian conservative when he says "our country" and "our children". He's not talking about the millions of legal immigrants, those of other faiths, those of other cultures, those that don't look like him, pray like him or love like him. He and those of his ilk have this weird notion that only they, the right wing white conservative Christians, are deserving of this nation, and he could not be more wrong.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Ender  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.4    2 months ago

I can only shake my head. Whenever someone says something stupid that is always the response. Freedom of speech! He can say whatever he wants...

Some people think freedom of speech equals freedom from consequences.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.4    2 months ago
But freedom of speech does not mean it must be free of criticism. Others have every right to criticize those opinions.

A valid point, and one it appears no one is arguing.

While he's availing himself of that constitutionally protected right, he's also saying that he doesn't respect the constitution as he says "We are going to stand valiantly for God's incredible inherent truths that predate any version of government." So according to him, the bible comes first which means he is promoting the idea that America should really be a theocracy with "American Christians" large and in charge as they had been for over two hundred years. Only in the last 50 years was the spotlight moved away from them and focused on social justice, individual freedom, minority rights and a move towards secularism and away from white Christian male control.

He is free to think and say what he wants, as you freely admitted above. And you are free to criticize him for it.

f we bend the knee to the Democrats today, our country will be lost forever, our children will never know what freedom is
What a jumble of horse shit. Democrats are Americans too, they are just as deserving of being a part of this country and expressing themselves as any right wing Christian conservative. What this bigoted conservative is saying is that he only sees American as the property and possession of white Christian conservative when he says "our country" and "our children". He's not talking about the millions of legal immigrants, those of other faiths, those of other cultures, those that don't look like him, pray like him or love like him. He and those of his ilk have this weird notion that only they, the right wing white conservative Christians, are deserving of this nation, and he could not be more wrong.

[deleted]

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.7  Ozzwald  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.6    2 months ago
He is free to think and say what he wants, as you freely admitted above. And you are free to criticize him for it.

And we are free to post how outrageous, insane and uninformed his beliefs are.  He is also free to forget that Jesus (if he existed) was  liberal.

what-would-republican-jesus-do-1442781591_1_.jpg?1489807108This-Republican-Jesus-0759785691499514449.jpegx9hoks2vxgc51.jpg

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Trout Giggles  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.7    2 months ago

They keep telling us that we can criticize people like this but they really won't actually let us without a lot of nonsense bullshit thrown around about how we are trying to stifle someone's speech.

They do the exact same thing to AOC and other liberals, especially women

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.9  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.7    2 months ago
He is also free to forget that Jesus (if he existed) was  liberal.

Whether one believes Jesus existed or not, an examination of the book that tells us about him makes it clear that he is most definitely a conservative, although not the kind of political conservativism we think of today. He only ever had one goal. To carry out his Father's will. He never once did his own thing. He didn't "speak his own truth to power". He only spoke his Father's truth to all who would listen. He never ever fought for freedom of the individual to be and live as they wanted to. He always fought against the chains that keep us all from knowing his Father. There was one, and only one, way to live as far as Jesus was concerned and he came to provide a way for any who would accept it to do that. 

I can't imagine anything farther from liberalism than Jesus is. 

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
1.1.10  MrFrost  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.9    2 months ago

512

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.11  Drakkonis  replied to  MrFrost @1.1.10    2 months ago

Nice poster, but try reading the book if you really want to know what he was like and what he believed in. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.12  Ozzwald  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.9    2 months ago
Whether one believes Jesus existed or not, an examination of the book that tells us about him makes it clear that he is most definitely a conservative

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

Jesus was a Liberal Democrat and a Socialist

He never once did his own thing. He didn't "speak his own truth to power". He only spoke his Father's truth to all who would listen. He never ever fought for freedom of the individual to be and live as they wanted to. He always fought against the chains that keep us all from knowing his Father. There was one, and only one, way to live as far as Jesus was concerned and he came to provide a way for any who would accept it to do that.

The myth says that Jesus was the son of the god of Abraham.  Therefore YOU are saying:

  • Jesus was pro-slavery.
  • Jesus was pro-misogyny.
  • Jesus was pro-human sacrifice.
  • Jesus was pro-animal sacrifice.
  • Jesus was pro-pedophilia.
  • Jesus was pro-rape.
  • Jesus was pro-murder.

All these things, and many many more are promoted in the bible.  Both old and new testament.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.13  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.12    2 months ago
All these things, and many many more are promoted in the bible.  Both old and new testament.

Surely you must know I disagree. These are actually your ideas about what it promotes so why do you claim I am saying them? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.14  Texan1211  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.7    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Texan1211  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.6    2 months ago

[deleted]

[For the record there is a double vertical line indicating that the quote was from another, secondary, source,]

[which was in the article.  Maybe DP could have presented it better,]

[but there's no reason for your outburst either. SP]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1.17  Texan1211  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.15    2 months ago

[A  I said DP could have presented it better.]

[B I said your latest comment was an outburst, nothing else]

[other than rude because it was in all caps.]

[C lets end this here.]

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
1.1.18  bbl-1  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.6    2 months ago

1.  No such thing as a 'christian conservative'.

2.  The Chinese manufactured red hat is the sign of the------------beast.

3.  Adoration of 'the gun' is the beast.

4.  Trump is afraid.  He is a coward.  He is dangerous.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.19  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.4    2 months ago
"if we bend the knee to the Democrats today, our country will be lost forever, our children will never know what freedom is"

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

The standard nonsense on top of projection, deflection, and denial.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.20  Tessylo  replied to  bbl-1 @1.1.18    2 months ago
"Trump is afraid.  He is a coward.  He is dangerous."

Just like his supporters.  

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.21  Ozzwald  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.13    2 months ago
Surely you must know I disagree.

Are you claiming those things I listed aren't promoted in the bible?  If so, please select one and I will provide the quote and location in the bible. 

If you are disagreeing that Jesus was a liberal, well that's your choice, but you are ignoring a lot of stuff in the bible to make that choice.  I provided a ;link that shows why Jesus is considered a liberal, you have not done the same for your conservative belief.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.22  XXJefferson51  replied to  Texan1211 @1.1.6    2 months ago

It seems like standard fare   

[deleted]

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
1.1.23  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.9    2 months ago

Whether one believes Jesus existed or not, an examination of the book that tells us about him makes it clear that he is most definitely a conservative, although not the kind of political conservativism we think of today. He only ever had one goal. To carry out his Father's will.

These bizarre rantings of the blindly religious are staggeringly obtuse.  Conservatism is probably one of the most amorphous concepts in the English language.  Old school “compassionate” conservatives with a conscience have long since left the Republican Party because of how wildly it has morphed into something previously unrecognizable.  And here you are trying to not only find a connection between this repulsive modern conservatism and the now dead version, but also laughably trying to link the so called teachings of a 2,000 year old delusional liberal with your whack job tribe.

 
 
 
Veronica
Junior Guide
1.1.24  Veronica  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.23    2 months ago

jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.25  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.21    2 months ago
Are you claiming those things I listed aren't promoted in the bible?

That would be correct.

If so, please select one and I will provide the quote and location in the bible. 

Not necessary. I'm sure I could do a passible job of selecting verses you'll take out of context for the purpose of backing up your claim. I've had this sort of argument often enough. Not interested in redoing them all again as neither of us will change their mind. 

If you are disagreeing that Jesus was a liberal, well that's your choice, but you are ignoring a lot of stuff in the bible to make that choice.

Disagree. I think what people with your views do is select certain things from the Bible that appear to support your views without regard to actual context. You read the Bible eisegetically. I believe you do so because you don't know or care what the Bible actually promotes, you just quote mine it for things you think supports your views. I, on the other hand, try to read it exegetically for the purpose of trying to understand what the writer intended to communicate. 

I provided a link that shows why Jesus is considered a liberal, you have not done the same for your conservative belief.

Um, apparently you don't realize you only provided a link to a letter some guy wrote to an editor that doesn't actually provide any evidence for his views. He just states that they are true. 

If you are disagreeing that Jesus was a liberal, well that's your choice, but you are ignoring a lot of stuff in the bible to make that choice.

The link you provided earlier claims Jesus was a liberal Democrat and socialist. The only way anyone could come to such a conclusion would be to quote mine the Bible. Anyone who actually tries reading it in context will quickly discover that Jesus is actually a Monarchist. He is a King. In fact, he is referred to being the King of kings and Lord of lords. He will rule with an iron scepter, which is symbolism for the idea that only what he says, goes. You will not find the idea of individual liberty in the sense Democrats take it today anywhere in the Bible. The end goal is to unite everyone under Christ for the purpose of worshipping the Father and enjoying Him forever. We won't be living the way we do now. We won't want the things we do now. We will only want the same thing Jesus wants.

And considering that Jesus himself said if we see him, we see the Father, it means whatever you currently think the Bible promotes in the areas you mentioned, Jesus feels the same as his Father about those same issues. Again, Jesus states "I and the Father are one." He doesn't mean they are the same person, he means there is no point where they have differing views about anything. They think and feel the same thing about everything. People think Jesus is different from his Father because he didn't punish people while he was with us. That was because that wasn't his purpose at that time. It was salvation. When he comes back, it will be different. It will be for judgement. He will come back as King to establish his Kingdom and anyone not on board with his program will be destroyed. I can't imagine anything less liberal than that. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.26  Drakkonis  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.23    2 months ago
Conservatism is probably one of the most amorphous concepts in the English language.

I agree. So is liberalism. 

Old school “compassionate” conservatives with a conscience have long since left the Republican Party because of how wildly it has morphed into something previously unrecognizable.

If you are reading my comments through a political lens then you are reading it wrong. I am not promoting the idea that the conservatism of Jesus is the same as the conservatism of the Republican party. They are not the same things as they each want different things. When I say Jesus is a conservative I am saying that the things Jesus promotes will never change. What he thinks of as the right way to live will never change. His goals will never change. Just like his Father. 

And here you are trying to not only find a connection between this repulsive modern conservatism and the now dead version, but also laughably trying to link the so called teachings of a 2,000 year old delusional liberal with your whack job tribe.

If that's the way you want to think of it, I can't stop you. However, if you change your mind and want to at least try to understand what I'm saying I will tell you this. I'm not trying to find such a connection. I don't believe in the Republican party any more than I do the Democrats. My comments are intended to convey the idea that Jesus has his own agenda and it has little to nothing to do with the Democratic ideas of liberalism and socialism. Anyone who has an ounce of reading comprehension skill can see that Jesus would reject human politics entirely in favor of submitting oneself to God in worship and obedience. That was the way in which Jesus could be described as a "rebel", although the fact is that it was us who were the real rebels. Jesus provided us a way to renounce rebellion for the true way. This is what I mean when I say Jesus was a conservative. He says there is one, and only one proper way to live and his ideas about that aren't in any way progressive. 

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.27  Ozzwald  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.25    2 months ago
Not necessary. I'm sure I could do a passible job of selecting verses you'll take out of context for the purpose of backing up your claim.

So I offer to present to you actual quotes that support my view, and your response is that you don't want to see them.  If I provide the whole quote, how could you accuse me of cherry picking??? 

I sense fear of the truth from you.

Disagree. I think what people with your views do is select certain things from the Bible that appear to support your views without regard to actual context.

And once again, you fear the actual phrasing from the bible, without your ability to spin it first, or put it into "context" as you say.

Um, apparently you don't realize you only provided a link to a letter some guy wrote to an editor that doesn't actually provide any evidence for his views. He just states that they are true. 

He states that his beliefs are true, and why he thinks that.  You are unable to rebut them, and so merely state "uh uh".  You would lose any debate ever with your response.

The only way anyone could come to such a conclusion would be to quote mine the Bible.

So only people who read the bible would believe Jesus was a liberal democrat and socialist.

Anyone who actually tries reading it in context

There you go again with your "context". 

In other words, if you read the bible with a preconceived notion of what you want the bible to say, in that "context" it will say anything you want it to.

And considering that Jesus himself said if we see him, we see the Father, it means whatever you currently think the Bible promotes in the areas you mentioned, Jesus feels the same as his Father about those same issues.

Those are the issues I am talking about, that you refuse to look at.

AND when you say "Jesus feels the same as his Father", do you even know what the "Holy Trinity" is?  Father, Son, Holy Spirit sound familiar?

According to Christianity, all 3 are 1, meaning that Jesus is the father and the son.

I have to ask, have YOU read the bible?????????

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.1.28  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.23    one month ago
find a connection between this repulsive modern conservatism

If there is any comparison it would be the right wing religious conservatives of today are much like the Priests, scribes and Pharisees of Jesus time, always loudly proclaiming their righteousness, calling anyone not worshiping the way they do "sinners", throwing stones at the poor, the prostitutes, tax collectors, non-believers and the am ha'aretz (people of the dirt/land). They whine and complain about having to pay any personal taxes but always have open palms for donations from the poor to their churches. They have only contempt for anyone who thinks their churches shouldn't be tax exempt. They support pastors who rake in millions and buy expensive clothes, jets and mansions.

How did Jesus apparently feel about them?

"2 The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. They pile heavy burdens on people’s shoulders and won’t lift a finger to help. Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels for everyone to see. They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the meeting places. And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers." - Matthew 23:2-7

And what about taxes?

"Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.” - Mark 12:17

And the poor?

“Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you." - Luke 11:39-41

I've no doubt that if the Jesus depicted in the bible were to show up today he would be utterly disgusted watching all the supposed 'righteous' Christians bowing down before their new 'Golden God' dirty Donald because they just couldn't wait for him anymore. And I've no doubt that most right wing conservative Christians would refuse to believe in the brown skinned bearded middle eastern man telling them to give to the poor, pay their taxes and humbly sit at the foot of the table instead of always pompously trying to sit at the head and would run him out of town if not worse.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
1.1.29  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.28    one month ago

Mic drop.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.30  Gordy327  replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.3    one month ago
So..is he talking the days of Noah? Is he willing to go as far back as Adam and Eve? (if they existed)

It's people with such a mentality that are the real danger to our country.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
1.1.31  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.26    one month ago

I agree. So is liberalism. 

So why would you put either label on Jesus?  Rhetorical question, of course.  Are you suggesting that Liberalism has ever had a moment when they supported voter suppression, racial profiling, oppression of women and minorities, trickle down economics, widespread deregulation, etc etc etc?  Which Liberal icon in history do you want to compare to the indefensible piece(s) of garbage that today’s conservatives worship?  Your side is literally projecting a civil war at this moment, nervously twitching their trigger fingers.  What does Jesus think about that?

When I say Jesus is a conservative I am saying that the things Jesus promotes will never change. What he thinks of as the right way to live will never change. His goals will never change. Just like his Father.

How convenient an excuse for the horror of today’s conservatives!  No matter what horrid things they say and do, they can always fall back on your definition of what Conservatism is, which is wholly ignorant of the reality we are living in.  You need to name someone in today’s Republican Party that you think fits this impossible narrative that your pedaling here.  Your overall response to my comment is so confusing that you should also name someone in today’s Democratic Party who fits the bill … apparently.  That would be an interesting list.

You speak of Jesus as if there’s actual written historical records of him that are commensurate with his supposed legitimate significance.  While there’s mounds of documentation for his contemporaries of significance, his are limited to allegories passed down by ancient goat herders.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.32  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @1.1.27    one month ago
AND when you say "Jesus feels the same as his Father", do you even know what the "Holy Trinity" is?  Father, Son, Holy Spirit sound familiar? According to Christianity, all 3 are 1, meaning that Jesus is the father and the son.

This would be an example of what I'm talking about. Jesus is not the Father in the trinity, nor is he the Holy Spirit. It isn't one Person doing three different roles. Each is an individual. That is, for mainstream Christianity anyway. Even the Catholics believe that much. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have a separate definition. If you can't get this right, what makes you think you can get any of the rest of it right? 

But I'll tell you what. I'll show you how much of a waste of time it would be. Go ahead and show me how either Jesus or God was pro-human sacrifice. You asked me to select one, so that's the one. Go ahead. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.33  Drakkonis  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.31    one month ago
So why would you put either label on Jesus?

I've already explained this. You even quoted me saying that Jesus is not the kind of political conservative you're talking about. Did that not register with you? Why bother quoting it if you don't actually read it? I doubt Jesus would support the Republicans any more than he would the Dems. Jesus has his own agenda and it doesn't revolve around human systems of government. He has his own system, thank you very much, and that is the system he promotes. What liberals, progressives and socialists do is take the parts of Jesus' quotes they like and claim that makes Jesus those things as well, ignoring that Jesus was actually calling people to leave all that behind them and seek God, not some political system. He paid no honor to either the Jewish ruling class or their Roman overlords. Jesus has no interest in promoting trans rights or capitalism. He is entirely for promoting the idea that the right thing to do is forsake all else for knowing God through himself.  

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Masters Guide
1.1.34  Drakkonis  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.28    one month ago

Believe it or not, other than you are likely including more people than is warranted, I actually agree with this to a large degree. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.35  XXJefferson51  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @1.1.31    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.36  CB   replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.4    one month ago

Emphatically. Additionally, it is a clarion call for Evangelical Christian Conservatives in this country to choose a side now. Stand with Trump.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.37  CB   replied to  Trout Giggles @1.1.8    one month ago

Liberals are the 'new Blacks' having no rights and privileges some conservatives have to respect.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.1.38  Ozzwald  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.32    one month ago
Jesus is not the Father in the trinity, nor is he the Holy Spirit. It isn't one Person doing three different roles. Each is an individual.

So just how many gods do you believe in?  Or are you Jewish or Muslim, that do not believe Jesus was the son of god?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.39  CB   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.9    one month ago
He never ever fought for freedom of the individual to be and live as they wanted to.

Wow. And for what do we have a constitution (civil governance) laying beside our Bible (religious order)?  Twisted.

Next time, tell us how Jesus did not ask people to voluntarily live a Christ-centric life, but became as evil and sinful a man as any, doing whatever necessary in denial of God-centric behavior to compel people into an "alternative" kingdom.

This shit-show (call it out for what it is) conservatives are selling can not stand in the 21st century. Truth though slow to catch us, will show and 'blow' it all up.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.40  CB   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.11    one month ago

Jesus was a healer and unifier demanding fruits of the Spirit in his followers. Delusions (of helping God by twisting other people to one own appetites) are not spiritual in nature.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.41  XXJefferson51  replied to  CB @1.1.40    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.42  CB   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.25    one month ago
I, on the other hand, try to read it exegetically for the purpose of trying to understand what the writer intended to communicate. 

Untruth. Pretext and twisting scriptures to suit one's political bent is what Jesus accused the leaders of the Jewish 'state' of doing in his lifetime. Don't make the same mistake and label it "Jesus says!" Even worse, do not spread untruth you know to be untruth in the name of Jesus (God, Spirit).

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.43  CB   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.25    one month ago
Anyone who actually tries reading it in context will quickly discover that Jesus is actually a Monarchist. He is a King. In fact, he is referred to being the King of kings and Lord of lords. He will rule with an iron scepter, which is symbolism for the idea that only what he says, goes. You will not find the idea of individual liberty in the sense Democrats take it today anywhere in the Bible. The end goal is to unite everyone under Christ for the purpose of worshipping the Father and enjoying Him forever. We won't be living the way we do now. We won't want the things we do now. We will only want the same thing Jesus wants.

WoW. Wow. Wow. And our Lord, the King, has instructed humanity today to go out and beat down and oppress the whole world BEFORE I COME BACK - Bring the 'END' after your own manner of choosing, and I will 'ride' in and take the throne of 'EARTH'?

That is not what the 'Great Commission' is about! God is not a God of Love who needs such men to receive glory of their own behalf. This is. . . disturbing and it is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Twisted.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.1.44  CB   replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.25    one month ago
People think Jesus is different from his Father because he didn't punish people while he was with us. That was because that wasn't his purpose at that time. It was salvation. When he comes back, it will be different. It will be for judgement. He will come back as King to establish his Kingdom and anyone not on board with his program will be destroyed. I can't imagine anything less liberal than that. 

So to some churches point: They have assumed the mantle as 'warriors for God'? Jesus has authority to wage whatever 'war' he as God will. However, what is man's authority to usurp in God's absence.

Right-wing evangelicals won't reply to me, because you can not answer. And I am okay with that. But, I will not permit Jesus and Christian to 'fall' into worse disfavor without a defense of truth!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.2  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @1    2 months ago

All the morons' supporters are morons and deadly also.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.2.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    2 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
1.2.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Tessylo @1.2    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
2  Dismayed Patriot    2 months ago

I thought for a second this was going to be a seed about Henry Rollins...

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2    one month ago

I thought the same.  I imagine these clowns will eventually steal the four black bars as their own at some point too.

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
3  al Jizzerror    2 months ago

800

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4  Trout Giggles    2 months ago
The leader, hungry for adulation to compensate for an inner lack of self-worth, projects grandiose omnipotence — while the followers, rendered needy by societal stress or developmental injury, yearn for a parental figure.

What developmental injury did these followers suffer...a drop on their collective heads at birth?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1  CB   replied to  Trout Giggles @4    one month ago

These people are serial predators. Time to call them what they are. They are methodically acting out before our very eyes. They are not listening to a damn thing a liberal says to or about them.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
5  Ender    2 months ago

I saw a video of a woman at a rally the other day. She claimed several times there was going to be a civil war.

Sounding more and more like they are willing to overthrow the government.

They can deny Jan 6 all they want yet that is what they actually crave.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
5.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Ender @5    2 months ago
Sounding more and more like they are willing to overthrow the government.

They've already tried.

washington-dc-trump-supporters-coup-mob-0108211.jpginsurrection-1560x1040.jpgimages?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJHhFMlxa1CFIe4igzW_u5ct1sP02J9OU6Eg&usqp=CAU

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
5.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ender @5    2 months ago

The term "civil war" is the ultimate oxymoron.  It's not like a combatant goes up to another and says "Excuse me.  Would it be okay if I shoot you?"

 
 
 
al Jizzerror
Sophomore Expert
5.2.1  al Jizzerror  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @5.2    2 months ago

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5.3  JBB  replied to  Ender @5    2 months ago

original

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.4  seeder  devangelical  replied to  Ender @5    2 months ago

pffft, this group of nuts call for a civil war about this time every year...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.4.1  CB   replied to  devangelical @5.4    one month ago

This time there is method to their madness. All kidding aside. Trump's approach: 'Never concede, never apologize, never relent' is what these people have been waiting for to restore "Dixie" to its rightful state in America.

This is real. And something big must be done about it. These people know 'where the guns are' (and they think they can win with them). There is method to Texas arming everyone in his state! Because Texas wants other states to fear and admire what his state potentially is harboring.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
6  Hallux    2 months ago

A dystopian flag in everyone's pot:

256

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
7  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 months ago

[deleted

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8  JohnRussell    2 months ago

The American public is too apathetic about these things. 

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
8.1  bbl-1  replied to  JohnRussell @8    2 months ago

And that is the strength of the autocrat.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9  Mark in Wyoming     2 months ago

Thanks for the daily chuckle .

So a subdued flag ( of any type ) has a meaning to be interpreded ? maybe its fashion sense so as to not clash ?

i have reusable cloth face covering for covid i attatched velcro to to afix a subdued US flag , the mask happens to be black , since i wanted to keep with a non f;lashy subdued nature , guess what color the flag is ?

I also have a subdued gasden ,dont tread on me and a jolly roger with skull and crossed swords when the mood suits me .

 
 
 
Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom
Professor Guide
9.1  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    2 months ago
So a subdued flag ( of any type ) has a meaning to be interpreded ?

Every flag has a meaning to be interpreted.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
9.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @9.1    2 months ago

But if your interpretation doesn't match certain groups you'll be shouted down, threatened and / or assaulted.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.1.2  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @9.1    2 months ago

yes and thats the whole point of heraldry , so people can see lines on a battle field or identify groups from the same side .

 the article to me is simply looking for a way to identify sides or groups , even if it is not very reliable in the long run because of the way individuals can co opt and hijack anything . 

people would be better to wear a scarlet letter for identification .

so when i have my skull and crossed swords , and i ask why the rums gone at the end of the night , people know what i mean , and why....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9.1.3  CB   replied to  Sister Mary Agnes Ample Bottom @9.1    one month ago

And some conservatives are 'playing innocent' (for a reason). That 'chill' in the back of your mind you feel? It's not just winter coming. It's malice, danger, and darkness.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
9.2  Dulay  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    2 months ago

I chuckled when I read you decry interpreting the meaning of a subdued flag while posting it's meaning as purely a fashion statement. 

BTW, comparing wearing a color coordinated ensemble is a bit of a false equivalency to FLYING a subdued flag, unless of course they only fly it at night...

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.2.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Dulay @9.2    2 months ago

no decrying it, might have asked what can be considered a sarcastic question  , and it WAS meant to be funny and make people laugh , even if it wasnt very good and i am not good at it . the whole conversation reminded me of robin williams in good morning vietnam when he did the fake radio interviews .

 the whole thing reminded me of military intelligence , now there is an oxymoron ....

like his fake fashon designer decrying camoflauge , why wear it , if your going into the jungle to fight , then clash ...

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
9.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @9    2 months ago
So a subdued flag ( of any type ) has a meaning to be interpreded ?

Makes me wonder what these idiots think of the subdued flag worn by US Servicemembers on our uniforms.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
9.3.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.3    2 months ago

when i was active in the 80s , all the base commanders went on a painting kick , and all the painting on base was in subdued "earth tone " colors , saying it was a directive from higher on up to help "hide " buildings .....

 that was to me the perfect example of military intelligence ....

sardonic wit is lost on some i guess...

 so i simply follow the other enlisted axiom for todays situation... embrace the suck .

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
10  Kavika     2 months ago

Nothing but a large group of fucking morons.

 
 
 
bbl-1
Professor Quiet
11  bbl-1    2 months ago

"Everything Trump Touches, Dies."  Rick Wilson.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
11.1  Tessylo  replied to  bbl-1 @11    2 months ago

and their enablers/supporters.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Expert
12  Hal A. Lujah    2 months ago

320

In case anyone has forgotten where this all began …

 
 
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