2024 blowout brewing: Trump 45%-Biden 32%

  
Via:  Just Jim NC TttH  •  2 weeks ago  •  94 comments

By:   Paul Bedard

2024 blowout brewing: Trump 45%-Biden 32%
In today’s Rasmussen Reports survey, likely voters picked Trump to beat Biden, 45% to 32% if the election were held today, a gap that is even higher among independents who have become the critical swing group. They chose Trump 47%-20%.

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S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



I n what would be one of the biggest political comebacks in American history, former President Donald Trump has surged into a double digit lead over President Joe Biden in the latest 2024 matchup poll.

In today’s   Rasmussen Reports survey,   likely voters picked Trump to beat Biden, 45% to 32% if the election were held today, a gap that is even higher among independents who have become the critical swing group. They chose Trump 47%-20%.


Added the poll analysis, "Only 69% of those who say they voted for Biden last year would vote for him again if the election were held today. Eight percent (8%) of Biden’s 2020 voters would switch to Trump, who would get 83% support from those who voted for him last year."

The surprising results follow months of bad polls for Biden since his team blundered the withdrawal from Afghanistan and a surge of support for Trump despite continued media obituaries and analysis from liberals that ignore the views of so-called “fly-over” country.

Other polls this week also show that Trump is leading in   some key states   Biden won in 2020, showing that the Republican is also leading in the Electoral College election.

What's more in polls of potential GOP primary opponents, including former Vice President Mike Pence, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Trump leads by miles.

Similar to 2016 surveys that found many voters supportive of Trump but not his sometimes abrasive style, when asked if it is a “good idea” that Trump act on plans to run again, 49% said it was a “bad idea” to 41% who like it. Women especially aren’t eager for Trump to run again, said the survey.

The gap on the “good idea” versus “bad idea” question of running again was much wider for Biden, with just 30% calling his plan to run for reelection a good idea and 56% a bad idea.

On that question, many more Democrats gave Biden a thumbs down. Rasmussen said that 27% of Democrats feel a reelection bid is a bad idea to 55% who like it. And among independents, the spread was 3-to-1 against.

Biden has been on a long fall that was punctuated by Virginia Democratic gubernatorial hopeful Terry McAuliffe’s surprising defeat earlier this month. Since, other Democrats have hinted that they hope Biden doesn’t campaign for them.

What’s more, Democrats have become willing to consider that Biden, who just turned 79, will not run for reelection though they are queasy over the possibility that Vice President Kamala Harris, who is even less popular than Biden, would win the nomination.


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Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
1  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH    2 weeks ago

I'll be damned. He, Mr. Biden, seems to be in deep shit. Go figure

Let the naysaying begin!!

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1  cjcold  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @1    2 weeks ago

The right-wing Rasmussen is 24th out of 28 polls as far as accuracy goes.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  cjcold @1.1    one week ago

No, it’s not.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  cjcold @1.1    one week ago

Oh ya, Biden's doing great/S

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.3  cjcold  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.1    one week ago
No, it’s not.  

Pithy comeback.

Do the research.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
2  Ronin2    2 weeks ago

I am all for throwing Biden and the Democrats out of power; but could the Republicans come up with someone other than Trump? I know that Trump is positioning himself for the run; and it seems that the qualified Republicans are standing aside to see what he will do; but I am not a Trump fan. There are others that can get the job done; and will have more standing to confront the Democrats on all their BS.

But if comes down to Trump and any Democrat- it will be Trump. (I will just stock up on antacids, popcorn, and ear plugs). 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
2.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Ronin2 @2    2 weeks ago
but could the Republicans come up with someone other than Trump?

This.

10000 times this.

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
2.2  JaneDoe  replied to  Ronin2 @2    2 weeks ago

I hear you. I’m growing tired of voting for the one who stinks less

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
2.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  JaneDoe @2.2    2 weeks ago

I used to vote for the best candidate regardless of party; mostly went 3rd party truthfully. But with the way things are since Trump was elected, it has to be the lesser of two evils from now on.

Right now the Democrats are unfit to lead at any level. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
2.3  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ronin2 @2    2 weeks ago
I am all for throwing Biden and the Democrats out of power; but could the Republicans come up with someone other than Trump?

The thing the Republicans have that Democrats don't is a list of people who have made Democrats into the laughing stock we are dealing with today.  One of them happens to be Donald Trump.  Not only did he embarrass the Democrats but he was far more successful in 4 years than most of them have been in their entire careers.  But on the other hand there are some good contenders as well that have handed it to the Democrats time and again like DeSantis and Abbott.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
2.3.1  Ronin2  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2.3    2 weeks ago

I would take a moderate Democrat that jumped ship like Manchin in a heartbeat. Even Tulsi Gabbard would be a breath of fresh air; and might keep us from doing "stupid shit" in foreign military affairs.

Neither are traditional Republicans- but then neither is Trump.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
2.3.2  seeder  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.1    2 weeks ago

I think I would have had a hard time deciding if Tulsi had gotten the nod. She was one of THE best dems on those debate stages.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
2.3.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.1    2 weeks ago
I would take a moderate Democrat that jumped ship like Manchin in a heartbeat.

I really hope he runs.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
2.3.4  Ronin2  replied to  Jack_TX @2.3.3    2 weeks ago

So do I; but it seems unlikely that either will run- much the less as Republicans. 

At this point I am just look for alternatives. Someone in the Republican Party needs to step up and soon; before Trump becomes a lock for the nomination. (Not looking at you Liz Cheney; never ever at you).

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
2.3.5  XXJefferson51  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @2.3.2    2 weeks ago

On that stage she was the best.  

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.4  Sunshine  replied to  Ronin2 @2    2 weeks ago
but could the Republicans come up with someone other than Trump?

I think they could.  They have a better bench than the Democrats.  

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
3  Nowhere Man    2 weeks ago

Trump is an ass and a cad, but he is a much better presidential choice than ol joe ever hopes of being....

Even such he still won't get my vote...

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
4  squiggy    2 weeks ago

Are we gonna have to watch the left do that shit again? That primary thingy?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Anyone who votes for Trump in 2024 will be in disgrace for the rest of their lives. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
5.1  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @5    2 weeks ago

Trump is bad; but Biden is a thousand times worse. There is no defense of Biden or the Democrats at any level.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @5    2 weeks ago

I will be happy to be that to the progressive left nationally and here in their eyes.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
6  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

Democrats, at least progressives, can't govern. They've turned the richest city in America into a a feces covered homeless camp.  Organized looting of businesses has become an industry and revolving prison doors result in terrorists murdering people at parades.  Most Americans don't want to live in a third world country, which is what progressives over them. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
6.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Sean Treacy @6    2 weeks ago
Democrats, at least progressives, can't govern.

No ideologues can.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
7  Sean Treacy    2 weeks ago

One of the progressives who wrote the book "The Emerging Democratic Majority" that so many Democrats took to mean they could go batshit crazy and would still win because of race has sounded the alarm. He recognizes how badly  Democrats have alienated normal people and published a guide for Democrats to stay relevant. Nothing demonstrates how far gone the Democrats are as much as these statements are now outside the mainstream of Democratic orthodoxy:

  • Equality of opportunity is a fundamental American principle; equality of outcome is not.
  • America is not perfect but it is good to be patriotic and proud of the country.
  • Discrimination and racism are bad but they are not the cause of all disparities in American society.
  • No one is completely without bias but calling all white people racists who benefit from white privilege and American society a white supremacist society is not right or fair.
  • America benefits from the presence of immigrants and no immigrant, even if illegal, should be mistreated. But border security is still important, as is an enforceable system that fairly decides who can enter the country.
  • Police misconduct and brutality against people of any race is wrong and we need to reform police conduct and recruitment. But crime is a real problem so more and better policing is needed for public safety. That cannot be provided by “defunding the police”.
  • There are underlying differences between men and women but discrimination on the basis of gender is wrong.
  • There are basically two genders but people who want to live as a gender different from their biological sex should have that right and not be discriminated against. However, there are issues around child consent to transitioning and participation in women’s sports that are complicated and not settled.
  • Racial achievement gaps are bad and we should seek to close them. However, they are not due just to racism and standards of high achievement should be maintained for people of all races.
  • Language policing has gone too far; by and large, people should be able to express their views without fear of sanction by employer, school, institution or government. Good faith should be assumed, not bad faith.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8  TᵢG    2 weeks ago

My nightmare in 2015 was that Hillary and Trump would emerge as the 2016 nominees.    My nightmare now is that Biden and Trump will emerge as the 2024 nominees.

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
8.1  cjcold  replied to  TᵢG @8    2 weeks ago

The far-right wing propaganda machine lied long, hard and repeatedly about Hillary and Joe.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  cjcold @8.1    2 weeks ago

That has nothing to do with my position on Hillary (or Biden).

 
 
 
GregTx
Sophomore Participates
8.2  GregTx  replied to  TᵢG @8    2 weeks ago

I don't think that will happen. Perhaps I'm being optimistic but I just can't see it...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.1  TᵢG  replied to  GregTx @8.2    2 weeks ago
I don't think that will happen.

I do not either.   See @9.1

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
8.2.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @8.2.1    one week ago

I don’t see Biden actually running in 2024 despite the recent announcement otherwise 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.3  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @8.2.2    one week ago

I do not either.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2.4  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @8.2.3    one week ago

It likely depends on two things. If Biden is actually "declining" , as his enemies on the right have been saying for a few years now without much actual evidence, then I think it would be impossible to run again in 3 years. 

The other deciding factor would be the outcome of the mid term elections. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2.4    one week ago

I think it is a strategic blunder for the D party to promote Biden for a second term.   Even if his presidency turns around, he is just too old.   Nobody that old should be in such a position of responsibility.    IMO a PotUS should be in their late 40's→ early 60's.   Further, if he does run again, he damn well needs to get a VP running mate who would be a suitable PotUS.    The idea of a president Harris is not pleasant.   Sticking with Harris could give the election to the Rs (and if they run Trump, ...).

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
8.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @8    one week ago
My nightmare in 2015 was that Hillary and Trump would emerge as the 2016 nominees.    My nightmare now is that Biden and Trump will emerge as the 2024 nominees.

I think it was everyone's nightmare, That was an election Trump was destined to win with the baggage Hillary was carrying around with her... The real shame is the numbers said Bernie was the man he would have beaten all comers handily... but then he was an outsider, Hillary wasn't...

Biden-Trump will be a repeat of Hillary-Trump although it's WAAAAY to early to even speculate...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.1  TᵢG  replied to  Nowhere Man @8.3    one week ago

I'd rather think happy thoughts.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Participates
8.3.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.1    one week ago

Me too, and right now Unknown R - Unknown D is about as happy as I can get... (at least it's a lot less stressful)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.3.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Nowhere Man @8.3    one week ago
That was an election Trump was destined to win with the baggage

Ridiculous. Trump had far more baggage, not the least of which was that he was already known far and wide as a pathological liar. The idea that Trump should have been a viable "default" choice in the 2016 election is nothing short of bizarre. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @8.3.3    one week ago

I think Hillary's flaws were better known.   Trump's flaws were mostly overlooked because he was seen as the anti-career-politician and people liked that change.   The degree of Trump's flaws were more exposed during his presidency and then made crystal clear to anyone capable of objective reasoning with his Big Lie campaign to steal the election.

That said, Hillary was still positioned to win and likely lost due to very timely emotional shifts due to Comey.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.3.5  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.4    one week ago
Trump's flaws were mostly overlooked because he was seen as the anti-career-politician and people liked that change.   The degree of Trump's flaws were more exposed during his presidency and then made crystal clear to anyone capable of objective reasoning with his Big Lie campaign to steal the election.

Trump's flaws were known , before the 2016 election, to anyone who cared to look. He was on trial at the time for defrauding dozens of people out of their life savings with his "Trump University" scam for petes sake. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.6  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @8.3.5    one week ago

John, you know the level of research the electorate does;  it is largely limited to what they hear from easy sources and from their circles.   People cling to a few notions and run with them.

My point is that the Big Lie is sooooo blatant that everyone with a functioning mind can see that Trump is a lying narcissist who would trash the integrity of his office and that of the USA to get what he wants.    

There is no excuse to support this miserable character for any position of power.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
8.3.7  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @8.3.6    one week ago

That he’s a better choice than cognitively deficient sleepy, misogynistic, racist bigot, and asinine policy let’s go Brandon is is reason enough to support Trump.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.3.8  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @8.3.7    one week ago

That is irrational.   There are plenty of GOP members who you would find better than Biden.   Supporting Trump is intentionally bypassing people who are suitable to hold the office of PotUS and seeking to put into office a person who has demonstrated that he will trash on the nation if it serves his interest.   Unpatriotic.

Also, your description of Biden is ridiculous;  it is juvenile and includes exaggerations and lies.     The same kind of labeling that Trump would do.   And the "Fuck You Biden" touch that you constantly repeat expresses christian values nicely.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
9  MonsterMash    2 weeks ago

I think Biden will resign before the mid-terms sighting health reasons (Health of the Democratic party) if he doesn't there's no way the Democrats will run him again. Trump might run, but he won't get the nomination.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1  TᵢG  replied to  MonsterMash @9    2 weeks ago

I do not think Biden will resign under any circumstances other than health (and that would be forced).   I do not think he really plans to run again.   I do not think Trump plans to run either, but if he is fully convinced that he will not lose, I can see his ego leading him to running.

Given the Rs continue to support him after his Big Lie and all the turmoil it has and continues to cause, I have little doubt that they would nominate the lying sack-of-shit.  The GOP has lost its collective mind.

 
 
 
GregTx
Sophomore Participates
9.1.1  GregTx  replied to  TᵢG @9.1    2 weeks ago

So you don't think Biden will run again but that the R's will influence Trump to run again. I don't think so. So the big question then becomes who do you think the D's have to put up?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  GregTx @9.1.1    2 weeks ago
So you don't think Biden will run again but that the R's will influence Trump to run again.

As if Trump needed to be influenced. 

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
9.1.3  MonsterMash  replied to  TᵢG @9.1    2 weeks ago
I do not think Biden will resign under any circumstances other than health (and that would be forced).

Exactly, he'll say he's resigning for health reason, but that will mean he's being forced out for the good of the Democratic party 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.4  TᵢG  replied to  GregTx @9.1.1    2 weeks ago

If the GOP continues to worship Trump and he becomes convinced he will win, I definitely can see him running.    I hope the GOP wakes up, and I doubt Trump will become convinced of a clear win.   But that depends on who runs on the R side or if Biden actually does run and the state of his presidency is weak at that time.

I do not know who the Ds will put up if Biden does not run.   Harris likely will try and be dismissed.   The logical candidates are those who ran last time (except for Sanders and Warren).

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  MonsterMash @9.1.3    2 weeks ago

I see Biden completing his term of office and then retiring.

 
 
 
MonsterMash
Sophomore Participates
9.1.6  MonsterMash  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.4    one week ago
I do not know who the Ds will put up if Biden does not run.

AOC, she's a looney tune the hard left progressives will go crazy over. She turns 35 in October of 2024 so she'll be eligible to run for President.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
9.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  MonsterMash @9.1.6    one week ago

Not even remotely likely.

 
 
 
GregTx
Sophomore Participates
9.1.8  GregTx  replied to  TᵢG @9.1.7    one week ago

Never say never. What kind of head popper that would be....

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
9.1.9  XXJefferson51  replied to  MonsterMash @9.1.6    one week ago

If neither Biden or Harris are on the democrat party 2024 ballot, I think that Trump would decide not to run seeing their removal before then as a personal vindication and leave it open for the younger generations.  A De Santis - Haley 2024 ticket would  be hard for a light bench of national democrats to take on. With either Biden or Harris at the top of a democrat ticket a Trump run is inevitable.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
9.2  Ender  replied to  MonsterMash @9    2 weeks ago

Biden said in the beginning he would only want one term.

I think he will be a one and done.

Imo it is who the Dems pic next that will be key. And the reps I guess, I have read that some people think donald won't run either.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
10  JBB    2 weeks ago

If you ask stupid questions you get stupid answers.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
10.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  JBB @10    one week ago

Well…, ah, never mind.  

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
11  charger 383    one week ago

I don't think Trump or Biden will be healthy enough to run

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.1  TᵢG  replied to  charger 383 @11    one week ago

Hands-Fingers-Crossed.jpg

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
11.2  XXJefferson51  replied to  charger 383 @11    one week ago

Biden wasn’t healthy enough to run last year and did it anyway to spite America.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  XXJefferson51 @11.2    one week ago

Correct and they still won't let him have the simplest of cognitive tests. What is disgraceful here is that some would even dare compare the performance of Trump with that of Biden. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.1    one week ago

What is disgraceful is that someone would actually seek to put Trump back into office after he showed to the world that he is willing to trash the USA in an attempt to protect his ego.   Why support such a miserable character when the GOP is replete with other politicians who also support the GOP base positions and are at least somewhat decent human beings?

2024 should not have Biden, Harris or Trump on the ballot.   Bring in some younger blood and focus on character and competence.   Attempt to nominate a young, energetic leader who deserves respect.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
11.2.3  Gazoo  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.1    one week ago

I agree, Vic. Biden clearly is cognitively impaired and has been since the primaries, but “sycophantic” partisan hacks still voted for him. Now look at the mess those fucktards have put the country in.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.2.4  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @11.2.2    one week ago

I think they put themselves between a rock and a hard place.

They embraced trump and his supporters and now they are stuck with them.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.5  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @11.2.4    one week ago

But they are not stuck.    It is not as though moving from Trump will make the GOP look worse than it already does.   Grab the parasite, rip it from your body and move away to start the healing process.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.2.6  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @11.2.5    one week ago

Yeah but when half the party voters believe donald won the election, it is dealing with more than just the man. It is dealing with his fanatical base.

Which actually blows my mind as there is still a lot of supporters out there.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.7  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @11.2.2    one week ago
What is disgraceful is that someone would actually seek to put Trump back into office after he showed to the world that he is willing to trash the USA in an attempt to protect his ego.   Why support such a miserable character when the GOP is replete with other politicians who also support the GOP base positions and are at least somewhat decent human beings?

No TiG, it's time that people acknowlege what Donald Trump did for this country. Those who used the privilege of their vote to cast it on something as frivilous as "character" must be kicking themselves now. They now have to wait 3 long years for redemption.


2024 should not have Biden, Harris or Trump on the ballot. 

Do you really think that the DNC is going to sit back and let either Biden or Harris get the nomination in 2024?  I can assure you that if Biden even makes it to 2024, he won't be getting the DNC nomination. As for the RNC, they must produce somebody who had all the conviction of Donald Trump. The Governor of Florida would be Exhibit A.


Bring in some younger blood and focus on character and competence.

We need 2 things: The undoing of all this leftist damage and some important legislation beginning with immigration reform and a complete vetting of government agencies.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.8  Vic Eldred  replied to  Gazoo @11.2.3    one week ago

The cognitive part was bad enough, but the leftist insanity was the final straw. That is why democrats are struggling to win elections.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.2.9  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.7    one week ago
a complete vetting of government agencies

So a purge of all government agencies that do not align with your views.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
11.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @11.2.9    one week ago
So a purge of all government agencies that do not align with your views.

So you think that vetting is the same as purging.

Got it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.11  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.7    one week ago
No TiG, it's time that people acknowlege what Donald Trump did for this country.

Attribute all you want to Trump.   Regardless of what you think Trump actually did in the positive for the nation, you now know that Trump is willing to abuse his office and trash our system to serve his personal needs.

Pick a different person to follow.    If Trump can accomplish something positive from your perspective then there are plenty others who could do likewise.   Pick one.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  TᵢG @11.2.11    one week ago
Attribute all you want to Trump.   Regardless of what you think Trump actually did in the positive for the nation, you now know that Trump is willing to abuse his office and trash our system to serve his personal needs.

Marc Elias and Mark Zuckerberg did that. If you don't want elections questioned, it's best not to screw around with them. With all the foul play in the months leading up to the 2020 election, it was bound to happen. One hundred and sixty million Americans voted in that election. The election was very close to producing a different outcome. Biden won Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin by fewer than 43,000 votes combined. Had they gone Trump's way we would have had an electoral tie. Think of what happened in those states and to the changes made to their election laws. Can you recall any election where 39 states modified their election laws leading up to an election?  After all that was done to Trump, I can't really say I blame him for the way he feels.


Pick a different person to follow. 

I'll be fine, thank you.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.12    one week ago
I can't really say I blame him for the way he feels.

And you do not blame him for how he acted.    Trump demonstrated that he is willing to abuse his office and trash our system to serve his personal needs.   Does not matter how he feels, this is not a person who should be in a public position of power much less president of the USA.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
11.2.14  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @11.2.13    one week ago

Yes he can be President again!  We all deserve to have him as our President for four more years!  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  XXJefferson51 @11.2.14    one week ago

They are concerned with the way he acted. No concern whatever for the Russia-collusion hoax, the FBI violating laws and getting away with it or the Speaker denegrating the power of impeachment. And after all that they want us to believe that they wouldn't rig an election to beat the man they think shouldn't be in a position of power.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.2.16  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.15    one week ago

Read this and try to understand reality a little bit better.

outline.com   /MsLkHU

The New Trump-Russia Denialists

David Frum 12-15 minutes   %published-time%
original.jpg Donald Trump

If Donald Trump had been supported only by people who affirmatively liked him, his attack on American democracy would never have gotten as far as it did.

Instead, at almost every turn, Trump was helped by people who had little liking for him as a human being or politician, but assessed that he could be useful for purposes of their own. The latest example: the suddenly red-hot media campaign to endorse Trump’s fantasy that he was the victim of a “Russia hoax.”

The usual suspects in the pro-Trump media ecosystem will of course endorse and repeat everything Trump says, no matter how outlandish. But it’s not pro-Trumpers who are leading the latest round of Trump-Russia denialism. This newest round of excuse-making is being sounded from more respectable quarters, in many cases by people distinguished as Trump critics. With Trump out of office—at least for the time being—they now feel free to subordinate their past concerns about him to other private quarrels with the FBI or mainstream media institutions. On high-subscription Substacks, on popular podcasts, even from within prestige media institutions, people with scant illusions about Trump the man and president are nonetheless volunteering to help him execute one of his Big Lies.

The factual record on Trump-Russia has been set forth most authoritatively by the   report   of the Senate Intelligence Committee, then chaired by Richard Burr, a Republican from North Carolina. I’ll reduce the complex details to a very few agreed upon by virtually everybody outside the core Trump-propaganda group.

  1. Dating back to at least 2006, Trump and his companies did tens of millions of dollars of business with Russian individuals and other buyers whose profiles raised the possibility of money laundering. More than one-fifth of all the condominiums sold by Trump over his career were purchased in all-cash transactions by shell companies, a   2018   BuzzFeed News   investigation found .
  2. In 2013, Trump’s pursuit of Russian business intensified. That year, he staged the Miss Universe pageant in Moscow. Around that time, Trump opened discussions on the construction of a Trump Tower in Moscow, from which he hoped to earn “hundreds of millions of dollars, if the project advanced to completion,” in the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
  3. Trump continued to pursue the Tower deal for a year after he declared himself a candidate for president. “By early November 2015, Trump and a Russia-based developer signed a Letter of Intent laying out the main terms of a licensing deal,” the Senate Intelligence Committee found. Trump’s representatives directly lobbied aides to Russian President Vladimir Putin in January 2016. Yet repeatedly during the 2016 campaign, Trump falsely stated that he had no business with Russia—perhaps most notably in his   second presidential debate   against Hillary Clinton, in October 2016.
  4. Early in 2016, President Putin ordered an influence operation to “harm the Clinton Campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process.” Again, that’s from the Senate Intelligence Committee report.
  5. The Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos “likely learned about the Russian active measures campaign as early as April 2016,” the Senate Intelligence Committee wrote. In May 2016, Papadopoulos indiscreetly talked with Alexander Downer, then the Australian high commissioner to the United Kingdom, about Russia’s plot to intervene in the U.S. election to hurt Clinton and help Trump. Downer described the conversation in a report to his government. By long-standing agreement, Australia shares intelligence with the U.S. government. It was Papadopoulos’ blurt to Downer that   set in motion   the FBI investigation of Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election, a revelation authoritatively   reported   more than three years ago.
  6. In June 2016, the Trump campaign received a request for a meeting from a Russian lawyer offering harmful information on Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump Jr. and other senior Trump advisers accepted the meeting. The Trump team did not obtain the dirt they’d hoped for. But the very fact of the meeting confirmed to the Russian side the Trump campaign’s eagerness to accept Russian assistance. Shortly after, Trump delivered his “ Russia, if you’re listening ” invitation at his last press conference of the campaign.
  7. WikiLeaks released two big caches of hacked Democratic emails in July and October 2016. In the words of the Senate Intelligence Committee: “WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian intelligence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort.”
  8. Through its ally Roger Stone, the Trump campaign team assiduously   tried to communicate   with WikiLeaks. Before the second WikiLeaks release, “Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone’s information suggested more releases would be forthcoming,” according to the Senate Intelligence Committee. In late summer and early fall 2016, Stone repeatedly predicted that WikiLeaks would publish an “October surprise” that would harm the Clinton campaign.
  9. At the same time as it welcomed Russian help, the Trump campaign denied and covered up Russian involvement: “The Trump Campaign publicly undermined the attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort,” the Intelligence Committee found.
  10. In March 2016, the Trump campaign accepted the   unpaid services   of Paul Manafort, deeply beholden to deeply shady Russian business and political figures. “On numerous occasions, Manafort sought to secretly share internal Campaign information” with a man the Intelligence Committee identified as a   Russian intelligence officer . “Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services … represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the committee found. Through 2016, the Russian state launched a massive Facebook disinformation program that aligned with the Trump campaign strategy.
  11. At crucial moments in the 2016 election, Trump publicly took positions that broke with past Republican policy and served no apparent domestic political purpose, but that supported Putin’s foreign-policy goals:   scoffing at NATO   support for Estonia,   denigrating allies such as Germany , and   endorsing   Britain’s exit from the European Union.
  12. Throughout the 2016 election and after, people close to Trump got themselves into serious legal and political trouble by lying to the public, to Congress, and even to the FBI about their Russian connections.

All of these are facts that would be agreed upon even by the latter-day “Russia hoax” revisionists, and for that matter anybody this side of Breitbart or One America News Network.

The confirmed Trump-Russia record leave many mysteries and uncertainties unresolved. Even now, the U.S. public still does not have a full and final picture of his business dealings with Russia before and even during his presidency.

The confirmed record may not add up to a criminal conspiracy either, not as that concept is defined by U.S. law. Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team stated that they could not prove any such conspiracy. But the confirmed record suggest an impressive record of   cooperation   toward a common aim—even if the terms of the cooperation were directly communicated by one party to the other.

Since Donald Trump declared for president in 2015, it’s seldom been possible to get to the bottom of one scandal before Trump distracts attention with a bigger and worse scandal. For more than a year, the United States has been convulsed by Trump’s frontal assault on election integrity and the peaceful transfer of power. He has, one by one, eliminated from politics Republicans who upheld the rule of law and urged their replacement by stooges who repeat his Big Lie. Republican candidates for office talk more and more explicitly about taking power by violence if necessary. These dark threats have understandably overwhelmed the effort to fill in the blanks of the Trump-Russia scandal of yesteryear.

Christopher Steele was a former British intelligence officer working for a firm that was hired first by anti-Trump Republicans, then by Democrats, to collect opposition research on Trump’s Russia connections. As his dossier circulated behind the scenes, experts on Russian disinformation warned of its dubious reliability. But it found an audience anyway within parts of the U.S. government and U.S. law enforcement, and in January 2017,   BuzzFeed   published it .

That decision was strenuously criticized by many. As our David Graham   wrote then , “the reporter’s job is not to simply dump as much information as possible into the public domain … It is to gather information, sift through it, and determine what is true and what is not.” The veteran Russia correspondent David Satter   warned in   National Review   that the dossier’s more lurid allegations reminded him of “the work of the ‘novelists’ in the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) whose job it is to come up with stories to discredit individuals without much regard for plausibility.” (Satter wrote the   definitive account   of FSB involvement in the 2000 apartment bombings that helped bring to power Vladimir Putin, and was   booted from Russia in 2014   by the Putin regime for his reporting.)

The Steele dossier undertook to answer the question “What the hell is going on with Trump and Russia?” The Senate Intelligence Committee found that the FBI investigation gave the Steele dossier “unjustified credence.” But the disintegration of the dossier’s   answers   has not silenced the power of its   question.

It was to silence that question that the outgoing Trump administration appointed a special counsel of its own to investigate its investigators. John Durham has   now issued three indictments , all for lying to the FBI about various aspects of the Steele dossier. None of these indictments vindicate Trump’s claims in any way. It remains fact that Russian hackers and spies helped his campaign. It remains fact that the Trump campaign welcomed the help. It remains fact that Trump’s campaign chairman sought to share proprietary campaign information with a person who the Senate report identified as a “Russian intelligence officer.” It remains fact that Trump hoped to score a huge payday in Russia even as he ran for president. It remains fact that Trump and those around him lied, and lied, and lied again about their connections to Russia.

Outright pro-Trump people remain deeply invested in those lies. But Trump’s media effort has often relied heavily on people who are not pro-him, but anti-anti-him. And the secret to successful anti-anti-Trumping has always been to fasten onto side issues and “whatabouts.”

Anti-anti-Trump journalists want to use the Steele controversy to score points off politicians and media institutions that they dislike. But as media malpractice goes, credulous reliance upon the Steele dossier is just a speck compared with—for example—the willingness of the top-rated shows on Fox News to promote the fantasy that the Democratic Party hacked itself, then murdered a staffer named Seth Rich to cover up the self-hack. (Some versions of this false claim include suggesting that Rich himself committed the crime.) Fox News ultimately   settled   with Rich’s family for an undisclosed sum even as the Fox host who had done most to promote the false story   insisted on his radio show   that he had retracted nothing. The story was crazy and cruel. But the story protected Trump, and that was proof enough for a media organization much more powerful than any of those that accepted the Steele dossier.

Quinta Jurecic and Benjamin Wittes: to Trump, ‘complete and total exoneration’ is always right around the corner

Not every journalist has to work on every story. Smaller abuses and lesser failures also demand attention alongside the greater abuses and larger failures. But if you choose, as a journalist or a consumer of journalism, to focus on smaller issues, you need to retain your perspective about what is bigger and what is smaller.

So by all means, follow the trail on Steele. But be mindful that much of that trail was prepared by people who want to misdirect and mislead. Take care how far you step along that trail. Be alert to how the twists of the trail block your view of the surrounding landscape. Otherwise, you may discover too late that you have also been misdirected and misled, and that in setting out to explore a small truth, you have become a participant in the selling of a greater lie.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.18  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.15    one week ago
They are concerned with the way he acted.

What was your first clue, Vic?    Are you not concerned that Trump tried to steal a presidential election based on lies, coercion and abuse of influence of his office?   When considering who qualifies for PotUS do you not give a shit about the character of the individual you would place in such a position of power and as our face and voice to the world? 

No concern whatever for the Russia-collusion hoax, the FBI violating laws and getting away with it or the Speaker denegrating the power of impeachment. And after all that they want us to believe that they wouldn't rig an election to beat the man they think shouldn't be in a position of power.

Really, no concern?   You cannot imagine that people can find Trump to be unsuitable for public office AND find that the Ds uses impeachment for political reasons, etc?   Really?   You cannot imagine people thinking in a non-binary fashion where truth is not either exclusively D or exclusively R??

And after all that they want us to believe that they wouldn't rig an election to beat the man they think shouldn't be in a position of power.

The question is not would but did.   Would the Ds rig an election if they could get away with it?   I think in today's miserable political climate, partisans would do almost anything to achieve power.   Look at the GOP right now supporting Trump after his Big Lie;  how low will a party stoop?   But that real question is did the Ds rig the election?    And the conclusion, repeatedly, is that they did not.   They clearly did not.    You understand that, right?   Trump legitimately lost the election, right?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.19  TᵢG  replied to    one week ago
The hoax was the rigging of the election along with nearly 24/7 lies from CNN.

You actually believe the 2020 election was rigged and that Trump is the legitimate PotUS??    Gather your evidence and give it to Trump because he is dying to have something to back up his bullshit.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.20  Vic Eldred  replied to    one week ago

The msm did nothing but lie and they are talking about Trump's character.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11.2.21  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @11.2.16    one week ago

You can stick the Frum opinion piece right up the Atlantic's ass.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
11.2.22  Ender  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.20    one week ago

Poor donald. He is not really a narcissistic jerk, he is not really a complete asshole, it is all the media's fault for quoting him and reporting on his actions...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
11.2.23  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.20    one week ago
The msm did nothing but lie and they are talking about Trump's character.

The MSM is not ever going to be the president of the USA.   Instead of rallying behind a person with an abysmal character we actually can choose to rally behind someone who is at least a decent human being. 

Why would you intentionally support a miserable human being like Trump instead of a GOP member with at least average character?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
11.2.24  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @11.2.21    one week ago

[DELETED]

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
12  Thomas    one week ago

Seems like this survey speaks to two things clearly: One is that the American voter has an extremely short memory and attention span, and Two is that the messaging (propaganda) being put out by the Republican Fog Machine is more resonant than that of the Democratic Fog Machine. 

Just over a year ago, a majority of people who voted in the presidential election picked Biden over the alternative. I don't know about most voters, but this voter would have voted for a cold bag of spit rather than let the countries highest official continue to drag the office and its associations through the mud. His conduct was so egregious that a whole lot of people must have felt similarly. So now the pollsters are saying that Biden is not as popular? Has to be mass amnesia. I like Biden and feel that he has done a reasonably good job as president, especially looking at the hand he was dealt by the Republican voters (who turned out to turn out the last guy) right off the bat. At least he got an infrastructure deal passed and signed into law. 

Personally, I will be glad when I do not have to hear that name ever again. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
12.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Thomas @12    one week ago

And we will be willing and ready to crawl over broken glass to be able to vote him back in again to bring back pre pandemic normal to America again.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.1  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @12.1    one week ago

That is such a pathetic image;  good grief what has happened to reason in our nation?

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
12.1.2  Thomas  replied to  XXJefferson51 @12.1    one week ago

You, and whoever else you are deeming to speak for, don't seem to understand that he will get his ass handed to him AGAIN if the Republican Party is foolish enough to choose him for their candidate. It matters little what some poll says not even one year into Biden's term. There was a reason that he lost the election in 2020, and that is primarily his abysmal character. You can only polish a turd so much before you get shit all over yourself.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.3  TᵢG  replied to  Thomas @12.1.2    one week ago

And his abysmal character was clearly presented to the world for the last two months of his presidency.  The entire world witnessed a US president lying about his nation's electoral integrity, coercing officials to lie, suborning unconstitutional acts from his own VP, lying to his supporters and encouraging them as the only ones who can make things right, triggering 61+ frivolous lawsuits, etc.

Seems a lot of people do not care about the character of the person they would see as PotUS.   I find that irresponsible and unpatriotic.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
12.1.4  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @12.1.1    5 days ago

It’s just another way of saying that we love him even more strongly than you hate him.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
12.1.5  XXJefferson51  replied to  Thomas @12.1.2    5 days ago

The next election will be all about getting rid of Brandon.  Even if it means bringing back Trump to restore our economic dominance and energy independence as well as a strong defense and a border wall.  

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
12.1.6  XXJefferson51  replied to  TᵢG @12.1.3    5 days ago

Bidens personal morals and character are far worse…It was irresponsible and unpatriotic to have voted for Brandon…

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @12.1.4    5 days ago
It’s just another way of saying that we love him even more strongly than you hate him.  

Part of your problem is that you have emotions intertwined with politics.   This should not be about love or hate but rather objective analysis.   It is difficult to make rational choices when one's mind is clouded with emotion (good or bad).  

How can a patriot 'love' an individual who, for two months as president of the United States, attempted to steal an election through coercion, suborning others to engage in unconstitutional acts, lying to the nation about a 'rigged' election, introducing doubt in our systems ability to maintain integrity of votes, trigger 61+ frivolous lawsuits, etc.?  

How can a patriot support such an abysmal character — a pathological liar and narcissist — as PotUS when the GOP has plenty of individuals who could execute Trump policies but with respect for the office, the Constitution, the people and the nation?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
12.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @12.1.6    5 days ago
Bidens personal morals and character are far worse…

Look, XX, even if that statement were true (and it is not even close to the truth), the GOP (and people like you) are sticking with Trump instead of rallying behind at least a somewhat decent human being.    That is inexcusable.   The GOP has the opportunity to detach the Trump parasite and start healing yet it keeps feeding the parasite and helping it grow.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
13  Kavika     one week ago
And we will be willing and ready to crawl over broken glass to be able to vote him back in again to bring back pre pandemic normal to America again.  

How nice of you to volunteer others to engage in S&M. I'd pay to watch that shit show. 

article-7363-2.jpg

 
 
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