It's Time to Embrace the Singular 'They'
By: Lifehacker
I don't like to be called a "grammar Nazi".
Grudgingly, I'll accept "grammar ayatollah".
Truth be told, I've been using the singular "they" for a while, already, to avoid the gender mess.
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
It's perfectly reasonable to use gender-neutral pronouns in casual conversation—both written and verbal—and as it turns out, it even makes perfect grammatical sense. Though the use of these words as plural pronouns is a hardwired trait, you won't be defying traditional grammar convention if you decide to upend the rule.
You may, however, have to endure the righteous hand-wringing of certain grammar purists who insist you're committing a horrible faux-pas. The only thing is, they're the ones who are wrong.
'They' has been a singular pronoun for 600 years
We are taught from the moment we start speaking English that the word they is meant solely to describe a plural distinction. Nonsense. The oldest written example of the singular they emerged in the 14th century, when it was used in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf.
But according to the Oxford English Dictionary, they's singular roots possibly stretch back even further.
Since forms may exist in speech long before they're written down, it's likely that singular they was common even before the late fourteenth century. That makes an old form even older.
The implication—that they has existed as a singular pronoun meant to identify anyone across the gender spectrum for about 600 years—should be evidence enough this isn't an attempt to force a rule change. In fact, examples of the singular they abound throughout the history of literature.
As the BBC noted in 2019:
Examples of the singular "they" being used to describe someone features as early as 1386 in Geoffrey Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales and also in famous literary works like Shakespeare's Hamlet in 1599.
"They" and "them" were still being used by literary authors to describe people in the 17th Century too - including by Jane Austin in her 1813 novel Pride and Prejudice.
There's even more examples, as Purdue University explains, running the gamut from Wycliffe's 1382 translation of the Bible, to Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing , in which the Bard writes:
"To strange sores, strangely they straine the cure"
Grammar constantly evolves
You might gasp, but it remains true that the only constant in grammar and language is change. For example, the word you , almost universally thought of as singular in present day, evolved from a much more fluid stature where it readily applied as a plural for years.
As Oxford explains:
You functioned as a polite singular for centuries, but in the seventeenth century singular you replaced thou, thee, and thy, except for some dialect use. That change met with some resistance. In 1660, George Fox, the founder of Quakerism, wrote a whole book labeling anyone who used singular you an idiot or a fool. And eighteenth-century grammarians like Robert Lowth and Lindley Murray regularly tested students on thou as singular, you as plural, despite the fact that students used singular you when their teachers weren't looking, and teachers used singular you when their students weren't looking.
Purdue University expounds on this:
Grammar shifts and changes over time; for instance, the clunky he or she that a singular they replaces is actually a fairly recent introduction into the language. Singular they has been used for a long time and is used in most casual situations; you probably do it yourself without realizing it. We are simply witnessing a reorientation of the rule, mostly with the intention of including more people in language.
It's also more inclusive
All of this is to say that using non-gendered pronouns is more inclusive, and it really doesn't have to be such a big deal. More formal announcements made to groups can really benefit from this kind of thing. For example, when making an announcement like "employees should store personal items in his or her locker," just say "their locker." Or, when saying "the owner of the Blue Honda Civic must move his or her car," just say "their car."
In addition to accounting for the growing cohort of folks who don't identify along the traditional gender paradigm, it just sounds way better. And, oh yeah, it's also grammatically correct.
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It is still wrong to misuse
there their they're
to too
it's its
hour our
your you're
....
But for some insane reason you want to misuse they and for some other stupid reason get rid of he she and it. I see no good reason to accommodate the mentally ill by conforming to their wishes.
Hi spik ate langviches, Hanglish da best.
That hurt to read. Just sayin.
I speak 8 languages. English is the best.
I come from a long line of hillbillies.
I figured out what it was, it was simply painful, that's all.
I think it's a good idea to get used to the idea of referring to someone as "they." For some people, it's the best option and it shouldn't be much of a burden to refer to someone in the way they want. It's not as unusual as some people might think. Gendered language is certainly not universal. Several languages are not gendered.
However, there is no particular evil or shame in using gendered pronouns if that's what people want to use for themselves or those who want it. Insisting everyone use "they" would be the just as bad as insisting everyone use "he" or "she."
One of the more obnoxious trends in this regard (IMO) is the development of the use of "Latinx" instead of Latino or Latina. Gendered nouns are a core component of Spanish and other latin-derived languages. From what I can see, it's main usage comes from non-Latin progressives trying to "improve" someone else's culture.
Indeed! Making it mandatory or a criminal/finable, or cancelable (sp), offense though might be taking it a bit too far. Not that anyone here is suggesting that...
Yes, French is one of those, too. One must learn how to use "la" and "el" in Spanish and "la" and "le" in French
Gendered nouns are significant in a child's learning process. Where an American child learns ''book'', a French child learns ''le livre''. The article is systematically learned along with the noun. The child's memory locks the two together.
This is why gender is not a problem for a native French-speaker... but a royal pain in the ass for English-speakers.
I can testify...
If one were to address me, or refer to me, as "they", I would be offended. Essentially one would be saying that I am big enough to be considered more than one person. Fat shaming is worse than slipping up on pronouns now and again, yes?
I admit it. I am a fat shamer. Usually only in my mind though. I wouldn't say it to their faces.
For me it is one of the easiest things to avoid. Put down the fork...
Years ago I had a couple employees, one who was very thin (ate only a small cup of soup for lunch everyday) and another who is quite large (300 pounds plus). The thinner one actually told me and others in the office more than once that he was physically repulsed by the larger employee. I never had a problem with either one of them until that day. I assume you can guess which of them is still in our employ?
I am not repulsed by anyone. I just look at it like an addiction.
For some perhaps. But there are those for whom it goes beyond, or deeper than addiction. There are all manner of medical and psychiatric causes/reasons.
There is a show I have watched a couple of times, about 600 pound people. They go to a man in Houston that will do bariatric surgery, usually only if they lose some pounds first.
Every time they just cannot stop eating and fight and yell and scream like someone needing another drink.
Just seems very phycological to me.
Now I have seen instances where medications can increase a lot.
Having an eating addiction is a lot like having anorexia. It's very hard to treat. It's a lot more than put down the fork or pick up one. You have to define the underlying problems first.
Btw, I watch "My 600 lbs Life". Many times when they want to lose weight, they have a family member who doesn't. and works against them.
I noticed that with a lot of them, it started when they were young and just kept increasing.
Yeah, Karen Carpenter would be a good example as to how hard eating disorders are to treat.
I thought i was addicted to eating, for self preservation purposes, and that's the phat skinny of it t'all ta me, but , my problem appears to be my constant screaming for ice scream, as, i may have a problem...
Some people just like to eat...Haha
Cruel to have taste buds, LOL!
as are medical and psychiatric treatments.
Sorry but, I see being obese or emaciated as the result of a human that doesn't take care of themselves.
Having known a few really fat people that has shown itself to be true.
If its over-eating.. slow down, IF its a medical reason .. Seek professional help.
WE only have one body to neglect it IMO: Is just stupid.
Easy to say. I was always a thin person that could eat anything. Then I hit menopause, and no diet was cutting it and I was gaining a lot of weight Finally, the docs said I had insulin resistance. The only diet that worked was literally to cut out every carb from my life. I eat a very limited diet, which takes a ton of willpower. So, it's not always a case of portion control. There are a lot of other things that can cause this.
As I said obesity IMO is NOT taking care of yourself, sounds like You are.
I'm 4'11" and 160 lbs. My husband is 6' and 155 lbs. I eat far less than he does. Sometimes it's not always about what or how much a person eats / doesn't eat... occasionally, genetics and hormones have a hand at play. The women in my family [both sides] gain weight and have a new natural plateau as they age... the new plateau generally being once every decade or so. I've always been curvy, but 20 years ago, I was a much smaller hourglass.
I've gone through every test to determine my periodic weight gains since I was in my 20s. When I was in my 30s, I cut myself down to 900 calories per day, exercised 3 times a week [hour minimum], and did that for 3 months straight... I lost 5 lbs. and the sad part is, I only gained that 5 lbs. back when I returned to my normal living. So... I look at it as, is it really worth me starving and being exhausted because of exercise just for that 5 lb. loss? Most people would say that it's not.
In regard to the them / they designation, I've been doing so for years. Do you know how difficult it is to determine someone's sex by their name in most instances; especially those with Indian (from India) names?
What I'm trying to comprehend is how a discussion about grammar became a discussion about diet.
It's due to a laxist Mod...
A tongue in cheek examination of the word “they” and it rolled away from there. Feel free to flag it as off topic and I’m sure one of the other mods who did not participate in the string can address it.
Relaxist... (-:
That privilege belongs only to the person who posted the seed, or a mod, and I really don't care anyway.
OK so here's a concept.
In the 1960's when women didn't want to be identified by their marital status, they came up with Ms. which is still used. Why not just come up with a new designation? To me, being called "they" seems to make me think of Sybil.
I know I am sounding like a country bumpkin today but...Haha
I don't see any particular need to change anything. Even trans people still go by he and she.
This isn't a burning issue for me personally. People get offended way too easily. Do you know how often people misspell my name or call me Pierre or Perrier or ask me what my name is short for? I am never offended and rarely even correct them.
This wouldn't eliminate gender-specific pronouns. It's an option for when the gender of one's audience is unknown. It's less cumbersome than saying "he or she" or "his or her" every time. "Every student is expected to turn in his or her daily homework assignment as soon as he or she is seated at his or her desk" versus "Every student should turn in their homework as soon as they are seated at their desk", for example.
I usually just ask for a name. Then I can avoid any pronoun.
Their homework is what I would normally use.
What do you do if they say their name is "Pat" and you're still not sure if that is short for Patrica or for Patrick?
When plurals for singular use started showing up in recent books I've read it was a bit confusing at first but using, " they or them " for gender neutral charterers soon became natural to the story flow.
I assume the same would become true in the real world, If I still lived in there.
Even if I use Pat, I am still avoiding using a pronoun...
That is funny what she did
That is funny what Pat did
I'd say that is appropriate if ya don't know for sure what the noun itself is.
lol
I recall watching a comedy routine about that, but damned if I can remember who did it. I think someone was trying to determine a person's gender, and asked what their (his/her) name was, and the answer was "Pat".
Actually, Old Hermit, I think you live in the preferred world.
It's not always possible - sometimes the person is unknown and not present. Consider Bob's example of a car improperly parked that needs to be moved.
Then you've already embraced the singular "they".
Yes. That's the point of the seed: that they/their have in fact been used for a very long tme.
In that example, it makes sense. I'm not offended by people using "they" to avoid using a gender specific pronoun...it just grates on my nerves.
Of course. It is already a part of everyday lexicon.
Whoever has the blue Mazda, they need to move it...
Pat was a SNL character created by Julia Sweeney back in the early 90's.
The SNL skits showcasing Sweeney's androgynous character were popular enough that the premise got spun out into a full length movie in 1994.
Chuckled at several of the SNL spots but never saw the movie. Movie got pretty bad reviews.
It's Pat: The Movie
Ugh ... I can still hear that squeal Pat used to emit in ... uhh ... they’re skits.
Thanks for relighting that memory, O.H.
Umm... people??
If you bothered to read the seed, you would know that ''they'' for ungendered singular is centuries old. It's the opposite of a novelty.
My own take is that systematically using either ''he'' or ''she'' for an unknown gender is flat-out wrong half the time, and using ''he or she'' all the time is a pain in the ass.
Bob I did read, but in usage now, it is only used as an undefined group or undefined person (when you don't know who it is).
And why not just come up with a new word, as I pointed out with the word Ms.
LOL I see some humans and just think... WTF is that.
Confusion ... O well to each their own.
IT ?
he she it
sarc
Perhaps, Bob did Ms. your point, cause i make up my own words all the time, asz i thawt everywon did
Exactly! Everyone should do as they please.
Bob Mrs. the point quite often...
The situations are not the same.
''Ms'' had to be invented because nothing existed.
''They/their'' for unknown gender singular has existed for centuries. As Ender says , people already use it without realizing it.
well, if i have too
I vote for it. When I was pregnant they were both its until I found out their sex
The only person I call 'they' is Split Personality.
C'mon that was funny. I know Split P will think it's funny
It's okay, I see things upside down.
Puns that are THAT bad deserve a thumbs-down.
The best puns are the worst ones...
I didn't post a pun, however weak you may find it, I posted a witticism.
"The best puns are the worst ones..."
This is being witty, it's not a pun.
It was still terrible / superb!
what's a pun...?
what, not punny...?
That's what i look like when i am telling the voices in my head to Shut Up. As they only speak sign language in my head, so in order to tell them something, i'm forced to shove my fingers in my ears, so i can't actually even hear myself, and what i'm saying to them. It's probably for the best, no ?