Via: randy • 7 years ago • 23 comments
Tue, Apr 18
New information suggests that a US aircraft carrier group, which Pres. Trump described as an armada, was actually headed away from -- when the administration said it was headed toward -- North Korea.
So if the USS Carl Vinson actually wasn't going to be participating in exercises with Australia, which Defense Secretary General Mattis said they broke off to go to Korea, then why is it, openly, in Australian waters today participating in those exercises and not leaving for North Korea until tomorrow?. Now I get that Trump and Spicer are pathological liars. That almost goes without saying. In fact it does go without saying. But Defense Secretary General Mattis and National Security Advisor Lt Gen. H.R. McMaster too? Did they not think that anyone would look and notice that it wasn't in the Sea of Japan? Did they not think that an entire Aircraft Carrier battle group participating in exercises with Australia would be noticed? Are they really that stupid? Oops we lost our armada?
Come on Trump. Tell your blatant embarrassing lies yourself and let your mouthpiece Spicer repeat them like the puppet he is, but why drag the reputation of Mattis and McMaster through the mud too? Now they have no credibility left in America either, just like you, you asshole.
I believe that the armada DID in fact head towards North Korea, and was probably one of the factors that convinced China to take a harder position concerning NK, so now that China has starting doing that, and the NK missile launch test blew up there was no necessity for the armada to continue towards NK.
Then why did Trump...and Spicer...and Mattis...and McMaster lie about it? Trump and Spicer I can see (no sane person believes them now), but why would Mattis and McMaster piss away their credibility with the American people like that? No one here will ever believe anything they have to say anymore and in their jobs, that's sort of important.
But don't you think that someone would notice that the Aircraft Carrier battle group was still down by Australia during the time they still kept saying it was headed toward the Sea of Japan? I mean they are sort of hard to hide and certainly China would notice that one didn't go by. The Russians certainly noticed that one didn't show up.
Even if Xi knew differently because of intelligence, the general population would probably not have known it. That would have given Xi the mandate to put increased pressure on NK and therefore appear have an effect on "The Fat Un" and satisfy the USA that he was doing something positive. Win-win all around. Randy, it would take you some time living here in China to understand how Chinese people think.
The only thing that is important with respect to this situation, is that Trump got Xi to do something about it. All the rest is just useless and unecessary bashing.
Jermey Bash, who is the ex-CIA Chief of Staff said on MSNBC a few minutes ago, that according to his sources still in the CIA, that Trump thought the USS Vinson battle group really was in the Sea of Japan off the coast of North Korea until the Navy told him about it yesterday. If true that IS scary! I'm trying to get some sort of confirmation on that before saying it is true though.
I really hope Xi can do something about it, because you can't play chicken with a madman...and not with Un either.
I really hope Xi can do something about it, because you can't play chicken with a madman...and not with Un either.
I believe the leverage China has is economic-- they buy N Korean coal. Not good for N Korean economy if they stop or cut back.
Also. North Korea imports a lot of vital things from China-- oil plus some other things N Korea needs.
Not a good idea to threaten a madmen if you don't know what you're doing-- but I imagine that by now China knows pretty much how to handle the N Koreans (or as well as can be reasonably expected).
Not a good idea to threaten a madmen if you don't know what you're doing-- but I imagine that by now China knows pretty much how to handle the N Koreans (or as well as can be reasonably expected).
Which is why I wish Trump, Pence and Tillerson would keep their damned mouths shut when it comes to North Korea. Their threats, both subtle and direct, are only exacerbating the situation. I think that you are right that China knows best how to handle Kim Jung Un (if anyone can), but The Three Stooges need to shut the fuck up before they start a war there. This is not shooting Cruise missiles into an empty airfield in Syria or finding out later that one of your Generals dropped a MOAB in Afghanistan. A war in Korea would be a total and very bloody disaster for all concerned. They are amateurs and in way over their heads on this one and if they keep mouthing off it'll be their fault if a war does start.
BTW, (a bit off-topic here)-- there has been some speculation that the U.S. regularly hacks into N Korean missile control software and sabotages their launches. (I have no idea whether or not that is true-- or even if its possible. If it is possible, it would be foolish not to do it IMO).
I'd heard that too and hope it's what happened. It'd be a lot nicer to have them blow up right after launch then in a nuclear burst over Seoul or Tokyo. Of course if we did do it, we'll never know in our lifetime.
As Trump warned North Korea, his 'armada' was headed toward Australia
The perceived communications mix-up has raised eyebrows among Korea experts, who wonder whether it erodes the Trump administration's credibility at a time when U.S. rhetoric about the North's advancing nuclear and missile capabilities are raising concerns about a potential conflict.
"If you threaten them and your threat is not credible, it's only going to undermine whatever your policy toward them is. And that could be a logical conclusion from what's just happened," said North Korea expert Joel Wit at the 38 North monitoring group, run by Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.
"If you threaten them and your threat is not credible, it's only going to undermine whatever your policy toward them is. And that could be a logical conclusion from what's just happened," said North Korea expert Joel Wit at the 38 North monitoring group, run by Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.
I believe that this was part of a game of "chicken" with North Korea and I think that, plus the threatening and blustering talk from both him and Pence, is causing a lot more problems with the Chinese trying to help then it is solving. Kim Jung Un is crazy (and there is certainly some realistic question about Trump also) and Un has no idea of who Trump is or what he will or will not do. Trump may think that that is a good thing, but in dealing with a madman it is that exact opposite approach. You HAVE to be predictable with a madman or you will set him off! You have to learn how to DE-escalate the situation, not escalate it. Since Un does not know Trump he does not understand that he is egotistical and full of threats that he (Trump) thinks are just good opening positions in negotiations, which may be good in a business deal. However, Un may take it as a direct threat to his regime's survival, which is paramount to him and threatening him is not only the wrong approach, it is a god-awful stupid one.
So if the USS Carl Vinson actually wasn't going to be participating in exercises with Australia, which Defense Secretary General Mattis said they broke off to go to Korea, then why is it, openly, in Australian waters today participating in those exercises and not leaving for North Korea until tomorrow?. Now I get that Trump and Spicer are pathological liars. That almost goes without saying. In fact it does go without saying. But Defense Secretary General Mattis and National Security Advisor Lt Gen. H.R. McMaster too? Did they not think that anyone would look and notice that it wasn't in the Sea of Japan? Did they not think that an entire Aircraft Carrier battle group participating in exercises with Australia would be noticed? Are they really that stupid? Oops we lost our armada?
Come on Trump. Tell your blatant embarrassing lies yourself and let your mouthpiece Spicer repeat them like the puppet he is, but why drag the reputation of Mattis and McMaster through the mud too? Now they have no credibility left in America either, just like you, you asshole.
Hell even Pravda is laughing at us! Thanks Don!
We foxed 'em!
WTG Trump!
Yeah! Sure! That's exactly what happened!
World wide APB...Lost armada if found please return to the Pacific. Or drop it off at the closest USCG office.
Reward offered.
Maybe we should stamp all of our Aircraft Carriers on the bottom "If found, please drop in nearest mailbox."
Reward offered.
What's the split with the Coasties if I turn it in? LOL!
I believe that the armada DID in fact head towards North Korea, and was probably one of the factors that convinced China to take a harder position concerning NK, so now that China has starting doing that, and the NK missile launch test blew up there was no necessity for the armada to continue towards NK.
Then why did Trump...and Spicer...and Mattis...and McMaster lie about it? Trump and Spicer I can see (no sane person believes them now), but why would Mattis and McMaster piss away their credibility with the American people like that? No one here will ever believe anything they have to say anymore and in their jobs, that's sort of important.
Then maybe the message was to put pressure on Xi, which obviously worked.
But don't you think that someone would notice that the Aircraft Carrier battle group was still down by Australia during the time they still kept saying it was headed toward the Sea of Japan? I mean they are sort of hard to hide and certainly China would notice that one didn't go by. The Russians certainly noticed that one didn't show up.
Even if Xi knew differently because of intelligence, the general population would probably not have known it. That would have given Xi the mandate to put increased pressure on NK and therefore appear have an effect on "The Fat Un" and satisfy the USA that he was doing something positive. Win-win all around. Randy, it would take you some time living here in China to understand how Chinese people think.
Randy, it would take you some time living here in China to understand how Chinese people think.
And, no offense, but it would take you some time of living here to understand how most American people think of how Trump thinks.
Touche. LOL
The only thing that is important with respect to this situation, is that Trump got Xi to do something about it. All the rest is just useless and unecessary bashing.
(innocent smile)
Jermey Bash, who is the ex-CIA Chief of Staff said on MSNBC a few minutes ago, that according to his sources still in the CIA, that Trump thought the USS Vinson battle group really was in the Sea of Japan off the coast of North Korea until the Navy told him about it yesterday. If true that IS scary! I'm trying to get some sort of confirmation on that before saying it is true though.
I really hope Xi can do something about it, because you can't play chicken with a madman...and not with Un either.
I really hope Xi can do something about it, because you can't play chicken with a madman...and not with Un either.
I believe the leverage China has is economic-- they buy N Korean coal. Not good for N Korean economy if they stop or cut back.
Also. North Korea imports a lot of vital things from China-- oil plus some other things N Korea needs.
Not a good idea to threaten a madmen if you don't know what you're doing-- but I imagine that by now China knows pretty much how to handle the N Koreans (or as well as can be reasonably expected).
Not a good idea to threaten a madmen if you don't know what you're doing-- but I imagine that by now China knows pretty much how to handle the N Koreans (or as well as can be reasonably expected).
Which is why I wish Trump, Pence and Tillerson would keep their damned mouths shut when it comes to North Korea. Their threats, both subtle and direct, are only exacerbating the situation. I think that you are right that China knows best how to handle Kim Jung Un (if anyone can), but The Three Stooges need to shut the fuck up before they start a war there. This is not shooting Cruise missiles into an empty airfield in Syria or finding out later that one of your Generals dropped a MOAB in Afghanistan. A war in Korea would be a total and very bloody disaster for all concerned. They are amateurs and in way over their heads on this one and if they keep mouthing off it'll be their fault if a war does start.
the NK missile launch test blew up there
BTW, (a bit off-topic here)-- there has been some speculation that the U.S. regularly hacks into N Korean missile control software and sabotages their launches. (I have no idea whether or not that is true-- or even if its possible. If it is possible, it would be foolish not to do it IMO).
I'd heard that too and hope it's what happened. It'd be a lot nicer to have them blow up right after launch then in a nuclear burst over Seoul or Tokyo. Of course if we did do it, we'll never know in our lifetime.
As Trump warned North Korea, his 'armada' was headed toward Australia
The perceived communications mix-up has raised eyebrows among Korea experts, who wonder whether it erodes the Trump administration's credibility at a time when U.S. rhetoric about the North's advancing nuclear and missile capabilities are raising concerns about a potential conflict.
"If you threaten them and your threat is not credible, it's only going to undermine whatever your policy toward them is. And that could be a logical conclusion from what's just happened," said North Korea expert Joel Wit at the 38 North monitoring group, run by Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.
"If you threaten them and your threat is not credible, it's only going to undermine whatever your policy toward them is. And that could be a logical conclusion from what's just happened," said North Korea expert Joel Wit at the 38 North monitoring group, run by Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies.
Exactly!
I believe that this was part of a game of "chicken" with North Korea and I think that, plus the threatening and blustering talk from both him and Pence, is causing a lot more problems with the Chinese trying to help then it is solving. Kim Jung Un is crazy (and there is certainly some realistic question about Trump also) and Un has no idea of who Trump is or what he will or will not do. Trump may think that that is a good thing, but in dealing with a madman it is that exact opposite approach. You HAVE to be predictable with a madman or you will set him off! You have to learn how to DE-escalate the situation, not escalate it. Since Un does not know Trump he does not understand that he is egotistical and full of threats that he (Trump) thinks are just good opening positions in negotiations, which may be good in a business deal. However, Un may take it as a direct threat to his regime's survival, which is paramount to him and threatening him is not only the wrong approach, it is a god-awful stupid one.