Prayer under Attack
When the news broke of the mass shooting in Las Vegas, many Americans did what we have done throughout our history. We offered our thoughts and prayers for the survivors and their families.
To the surprise of many, that is no longer an acceptable response. According to Democrats, we must stop praying and “do something.” No matter that the facts are unknown. No matter that people are still mourning and victims are in shock. Politics and legislation are omnipotent -- the answer to every human tragedy and need.
Until recently it would have been unthinkable that anyone, especially prominent political leaders, would mock prayer. However, the sad reality is that disrespect for Christianity is one of the Left’s contributions to modern American culture. Elites in Washington, Hollywood, and their lesser acolytes in the “Twitterverse” and on Facebook openly dismissed prayer for the Las Vegas victims as an excuse for inaction.
For Americans to see prayer as an avoidance of responsibility bespeaks an inscrutable ignorance. Our Founding Fathers, the pilgrims and pioneers who came before them, and most of the colonists prayed and yet somehow built the greatest nation on earth at the same time.
They were not a genetically superior breed. Their flaws and mistakes are well known, but they believed in the power of prayer, as did most in the society of their time. They also believed in providential guidance in answer to prayer. To put it another way, they believed that prayer was the prelude to more effective action, not a way of avoiding it. Even the slaves believed that they could pray their way out of bondage. They had no earthly power to bring it about, but, not to put too fine a point on it, their prayers were answered.
In the Declaration of Independence, our Founding Fathers called upon the power of God to aid them in their quest for freedom. According to James Madison’s notes, Benjamin Franklin called for prayer during an impasse at the Constitutional Convention on June 28, 1787. Franklin said, “In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine protection. Our prayers… were graciously answered… And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? Or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? I move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business.”
Those deliberations proceeded to a successful conclusion, in spite of differences over slavery, a bill of rights and other major issues. Throughout our history, particularly in dire situations, there have been national calls for prayer. From the blockade of Boston Harbor in 1774 to D-Day during WWII, to President Trump calling for a National Day of Prayer after Hurricane Harvey, Americans have always turned to prayer. It is woven into the fabric of our culture. Yet some of our misguided citizens want to rip out this essential thread.
In Congress last Monday night, Massachusetts Representatives Katherine Clark and Seth Moulton refused to participate in a moment of silence.
After the Pulse Nightclub shooting in Orlando in June 2016, Connecticut Democratic Rep. Jim Himes announced that he would not partake in a moment of silence for the victims.
After the San Bernardino massacre in December 2015, the New York Daily News ran a front-page headline, “God’s Not Fixing This,” mocking Republican leaders for “preaching about prayer.”
On the other hand, in a speech before a Congress, Rep. Steve Scalise, said he began to pray while lying on the field severely wounded by a mass shooter. “[God] really did deliver for me and my family, and it just gives you that renewed faith… that… prayer is something you just cannot underestimate…"
Yet many of the elites of the left have discarded four centuries of spiritual heritage. They have traded their Judeo-Christian birthright for a bowl of atheist porridge. They want a country without prayer, a nation without God. This is the key to the fundamental transformation of America.
They will answer to no Higher Authority than themselves. They set their own morals and standards to justify their lusts. They would supplant the spiritual legacy that birthed the greatest nation in history and substitute man's persistent idolatry: We will be god ourselves.
In a simple, but eloquent call for prayer, President Trump reminded us of who we have been, who we are and who we must be always: “To the families of the victims: We are praying for you and we are here for you, and we ask God to help see you through this very dark period. Scripture teaches us, ‘The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.’”
This is the heritage we’ve known and the country we love. Laws will come and go. Leaders will come and go. But the power of prayer will endure.
As long as we remember that, America will endure. http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/prayer_under_attack.html
Article is LOCKED by author/seeder
OMG, a war on prayer to go with the war on Christmas...How many religious wars do we have going, I'm losing count. /s
I just got my draft card for the ACLU's war on Christmas. I report to their atheist training camp in 2 weeks, so I can train to harass Santa Claus at the mall.
OMG, a war on prayer to go with the war on Christmas...How many religious wars do we have going, I'm losing count. /s
Here's a few I can think of in addition to The War on Drugs:
-The war on Christians
-The War on Drugs
-The War on Poverty
-The War on Terrorism
-The War on Women
-The War on Coal
-The War on Cops
...and those a just a few....
There - now you can correctly claim that prayer is under a tack. You’re welcome.
Tell you what, pray with one hand, and do something useful with the other. Then, look at your hands and tell me what you have. You can pray whenever you want, in private. In fact, your supposed Lord instructed you to do just that.
Matthew 6:5-6 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly
Matthew 6:5-6 5
Your interpretation of that verse is wrong. Correct interpretation:
It must be observed, that Christ does not here condemn all prayer made in places of public worship, seeing both he and his disciples often prayed with the Jews in the synagogues, Luke 4:16; nor any public devotions in the house of God; but, speaking only here of private prayer, he would have that performed agreeably to the nature of it, and so in secret; and condemns them only who affected to do that duty in public places, that others might take notice of them, and regard them as devout religious persons for so doing.
that is not what you said:
You can pray whenever you want, in private. In fact, your supposed Lord instructed you to do just that.
Lots of interpretations
no...there are not lots of interpretation
if you are going to attack Christian religion, you should have an understanding of the religion. just repeating something some other idiot said is lazy.
condemns them only who affected to do that duty in public places, that others might take notice of them, and regard them as devout religious persons for so doing.
Which is what I was speaking to, religious hypocrites. People who publically pray but do nothing are hypocrites.
Thanks for coming right out so quickly and demonstrating what contortions "christians" have put themselves in over the centuries in order to ignore or pervert the words of their founder.
no...there are not lots of interpretation
And then there are the exact words of the gospels. Do you not accept the gospels as valid? Of course, I don't, but I thought people who claim to be christians might.
It must be observed, that Christ does not here condemn all prayer made in places of public worship, seeing both he and his disciples often prayed with the Jews in the synagogues
So you're saying that your buddy Jesus says it's OK to pray in your room or in your cult's temple. That sounds fair. He also clearly seems to condemn those who want the general public to see them praying, like the street preachers and the bible-babbling coaches on the 50 yard line, and those who want public meetings of our secular government opened with prayer.
The Jesus of the gospels was pretty tough on the practitioners of ostentatious public piety whom he knew to be complete hypocrites. And we still have them today.....in fact, right here on this discussion and everywhere else these bogus claims of having their "right" to shove their superstitions down our throats. They say these religious observations must be preserved and then try to turn around and lie to our faces that, oh, no, that doesn't mean the want christianity to be the state religion. Like hell they don't.
Two points:
1. Atheist, you invoked the scripture in its proper sense . Jesus rebuked the leaders:
14 [“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses , and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]
A version of this pretense occurred in the marketplace where people gathered.
2. Now to the skeptics that often gather here spreading their 'wares' and agenda:
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
It seems skeptics have use for the words of Jesus when they can be used to destroy and tear down people of faith; there are many positive and enlightening messages in the Gospel that skeptics simply won't touch or share with their audiences.
Those words aren't used to "tear down people of faith". They're used to point out instances when people who claim to be of faith display false piety.
We recognize false piety, and object to religion being used by those who don't follow it themselves.
It seems skeptics have use for the words of Jesus when they can be used to destroy and tear down people of faith; there are many positive and enlightening messages in the Gospel that skeptics simply won't touch or share with their audiences.
It's certainly a fact that the kind of "christians" we encounter on boards like this will do almost anything to avoid facing or to tamper with the direct words of the person/god they allegedly worship. This isn't new to christianity. Much ink and parchment has been dedicated to worming a way around having to adhere to those teachings...and for good reason. The criteria laid out in the gospels by this Jesus were damned difficult to carry out. So much so, that Paul soon realized he couldn't export the original product without easing up on the requirements and that continued to be the way it was interpreted away from any semblance of its original shape. That's why we have vastly more people claiming to be "christian" who don't even come close than we do those who really try. And the former are the ones that infest and plague discussion boards such as this while the latter are too damn busy doing good things.
I will take your message to heart when you acknowledge: there are many positive and enlightening messages in the Gospel that skeptics simply won't touch or share with their audiences. It is time for some fair-mindedness on all sides.
there are many positive and enlightening messages
throughout literature that are not religiously affiliated and are not in a book filled with incest, rape, slavery, misogyny, child abuse, child murder, judgment, destruction of mankind, and eternal torment.
I think most skeptics acknowledge that the Golden Rule is a pretty good message, and good people, religious or not, tend to live by it.
I think most skeptics, like Jesus, call out hypocrisy. Of course, when we quote Jesus's teaching on hypocrisy, you seem to get upset, even though we're doing what Jesus did.
It seems to me that, as per usual, you are misstating the position of skeptics. Many of them like and actually follow some of the teachings of Jesus. They just don't believe in his divinity. His lack of divinity in our eyes takes nothing from his positive message, but it does release us from some of the less positive teachings - you know, eternal damnation, some of the bigotry from the OT and the writings of Paul, how sinful we all are.
Skeptics get to pick out the good stuff, and ignore the rest. It's very liberating.
I think most skeptics acknowledge that the Golden Rule is a pretty good message, and good people, religious or not, tend to live by it.
Of course pretty much every culture has some variant of the Golden Rule, but the Jewish version which Hillel stated is far superior to the Christian version which gets the obligation backwards. It's subtle but important.
And why do you think the Jewish people, so interested in myths and fables, so the humanists like to write, put all that real life situational information into their books for time immemorial?
Were ancient Israelites politically unsavvy people? No, actually, they had a political society. Did the Israelites not understand how time accumulates forward and future generations would physically have their books? Would critically opine of them as a people?
How about the skeptics who attempt to say that the Bible seeks to hide its blotches, blemishes, and bloody stains from onlookers? No, it's all there in stark relief. How else would you know about it - except the people wrote it down, alongside the good?
It seems to me Ancient Israel was not ashamed to tell it all about it all.
all that real life situational information
Real?
So you believe that Yahweh told men to rape virgins and kill non-virgins?
So you believe that Yahweh commanded men to beat their children and stone to death the unruly ones?
So you believe that Yahweh destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire and brimstone and turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt?
How about Jonah in the belly of a whale?
There are a number of assorted Biblical myths that Hollywood has made bigger than life.
"No Jews built the pyramids because Jews didn't exist at the period when the pyramids were built," Mazar said.
Dorothy Resig, an editor of Biblical Archaeology Review in Washington D.C., said the idea probably arose from the Old Testament Book of Exodus, which says: "So the Egyptians enslaved the children of Israel with backbreaking labor" and the Pharaoh put them to work to build buildings.
"If the Hebrews built anything, then it was the city of Ramses as mentioned in Exodus," said Mazar.
Really, what?
Really, do I think that it's good to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", but that it's probably bad to slaughter an entire city because they won't convert to my religion (and, of course, hand over the city)?
Yes, I really do.
Really.
It seems to me Ancient Israel was not ashamed to tell it all about it all
It is a fact that Ancient Israel had absolutely no qualms about writing fiction. Nor do many rabbis have a problem accepting that fact according to the article linked below. In my experience, it is Christians who demand that their Bible in its many translated and revised versions is inerrant. Of course, evolution brings the whole house built on sand tumbling down into the ocean. No Adam and Eve means no original sin and no need for Yahweh to be born as Yeshua to forgive aforementioned original sin.
There is no proof of the Exodus. Below is a link to well-written article by a rabbi about how to deal with fact meeting fiction.
Most archeologists conclude that the Israelites lived largely in Canaan over generations, instead of leaving and then immigrating back to Canaan.
The probability is, given the traditions, that there were some enslaved Israelites who left Egypt and joined up with their brethren in Canaan.
There are three primary reasons this is important to talk about:
1. A tradition cannot make an historical claim and then refuse to have it evaluated by history.
For well over a century linguists, archeologists, historians and Bible scholars have been looking at the Bible in a new way. They understand how much of it is a product of history; how many stories were shared with other cultures whose languages and histories we have just come to understand. We can now appreciate how the vast canvas of the Bible shows different levels of Hebrew language, as would be expected of a work that developed over time. Most people are not aware that there are different manuscripts of the Bible, which show a "transmission history"--that is, constant recopying and variation. Our earliest complete manuscripts of the Bible are only 1000 years old. Even the Talmud (completed some fifteen hundred years ago) sometimes quotes verses differently from the verses as we have them.
there are many positive and enlightening messages in the Gospel
So are there in Aesop's fables too. What's your point? Personally, I don't find stories of god smiting every unrighteous heathen that happens to cross his omnipotent socio-path to be either very enlightening or positive.
God, also, helps those who help themselves. And, this would go hand in hand with praying and doing.
As I have said many times those on NT who enjoy bashing anything to do with religion go for it. It makes no difference.
But, I must admit that the comment "I'd rather laugh with the sinners" is hysterically funny!
God, also, helps those who help themselves.
That is about the biggest bullshit statement in all of Christian dogma. Show me one place in scripture where this assertion is made.
Not there and never said it was!
My Mother 101!
Here is a comment of equal importance and justification: God wants everyone to wear jeans on Tuesdays.
Show me one place in scripture where this assertion is made.
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good [ a ] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead .
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works , and faith was completed by his works ; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead .
But, I must admit that the comment "I'd rather laugh with the sinners" is hysterically funny!
Sounds like some song lyrics i've heard in a Billy Joel song ........ that's because they are.
As I have said many times those on NT who enjoy bashing anything to do with religion go for it.
The use of logic isn't bashing prayer or your god.
Do you have 3 instances of god helping people who prayed?
Have you read the Book of Job?
The Bible is an unproven claim and not a proof, so citing the Book of Job as proof is a circular logic fallacy.
Unless it's using logic against Islam... then it's bashing. /sarc
Muslims pray to the same god that you do. They call god Allah ( God in Arabic) but it is the same god as Christians and Jews. They have the same First Amendment right to pray as you do, but that doesn't mean that it is any more logical than your prayer. Our constitutional rights are not predicated on the act in question being logical.
No, it is a question. Can you not tell the difference between the two?
Your question implies that Job is a valid source or answer to epistte's question.
You not understanding the question tells me you don't know the story of Job and it's relevance to prayer.
Yes, I am familiar with the story of Job. But that doesn't actually answer epistte's question. Neither is it relevant!
Typical of Atheists to not know the material they hate.
Spare me the baseless presumption.
No, it merely implies it is relevant to what epsiite was talking about. You inferred that which wasn't implied. That's because you saw what you wanted to see
Epistte was talking about actual instances of prayer or god helping people. Citing the bible doesn't actually answer that. It's more of a deflection.
Then explain to us how G-d tormented Job and ignored Job's prayer as a test to his faith and piety. Please explain to us in detail this parable and maybe the reason and relevance will show itself?
As I said, Job is a story. And one (of many) which really highlights how evil god really is.
They don't seem all that baseless, and the presumption is most earned.
As you say, you "see what you wanted to see."
Then explain to us how G-d tormented Job
Actually, satan tormented Job. This is discussed in the first 2 chapters the book of Job. Notice while reading this, at this time satan had not yet been expelled from heaven. He was even the presence of YHWH.
The rest of your question stands. Why did YHWH allow this to happen?
So you missed the whole point? You clearly haven't read the Book of Job. If you haven't read the source then your opinion on it is meaningless.
The Bible isn't proof of anything, except maybe that many people don't have a grasp of logic. The Bible a book of borrowed mythology and parable.
That doesn't address what I said. The Left want to silence criticism of Islam, and they say it is "bashing" or "hate speech" or "Islamophabia". Yet they want to bash Christianity at every chance available. I thought the implication was obvious, but judging by the disconnect from your response, I suppose I should have just spelled it out...
Muslims have the same right to be criticized as everyone else. Anything else would violate our free speech rights. I oppose people saying that Muslims cant practice their religion as they please as defined by the First Amendment, but that religion is just as illogical as Christianity and Judaism.
Actually, satan tormented Job.
Sure, after god expressly allowed it. And all just to win a bet against Satan. It's kind of like the biblical version of Trading Places.
Why did YHWH allow this to happen?
Maybe you missed this at the end of my post?
Unless it's using logic against Islam... then it's bashing.
It's always fun to see these christians trying to pretend how bad Islam is when they really want to install their christian version of "sharia" on this country. It's also funny that they think we can't see right through their transparent intentions.
The Bible a book of borrowed mythology and parable.
And many interpretations, translations, personal beliefs and cultural concepts over the many years it has been written and rewritten by no one who was actually there to hear the words supposedly spoken themselves. Books of the Bible written many years after Christ died and who never witnessed or heard first hand what actually took place or what was said.
It's sort of like gossip, the more times it is repeated the more times it is changed from what was actually said in the first place.
And in the end, it seems that every organized religious group has their own interpretation of what is written in the Bible as well. Every verse can have a different meaning to different people.
Native Americans do not believe in Hell. That does not make them pagans, savages or Godless heathens. They simply have a different view of the Creator and His love of His children. However, that is a tool that many Christian organizations use to instill fear into people to intimidate them to obey the teachings of their own beliefs.
Just my own take on things.
Yes, and how'd that work for Job???
Are you trying to compare a story to reality?
My question's purpose, and it's answer, was obvious to any one that has knowledge of Christianity or Judaism.
More like it's an attempt at obfuscation.
It's a parable which is designed to express a moral lesson. Sorry, but I didn't have a Greek proverb that works as well as Job.
So, it's a story. got it!
Care to address the moral lesson,
Yeah, the moral is, god is an evil ogre of a deity.
I see what is presented.
So you're seeing things then?
When you show a lack of knowledge or understanding of Job, like with most Atheists, I come to the conclusion they haven't read the material for which they hate so much.
Your conclusion is flawed, as it is based on flawed premises, such as assuming atheists are not familiar or do not understand biblical stories like Job. Or that atheists must or automatically hate god or the bible.
Maybe you missed this at the end of my post?
No. My statement covered that.
The ideas and values between Islam and the other Abrahamic religions are antithetical to each other and cannot possibly be sourced from the same G-d.
Islam, at its inception, drew heavily from the OT. It would be surprising if a 'new' religion did not draw from stories and notions of older religions.
... cannot possibly be sourced from the same G-d.
The claim was not that these books were sourced from the same god (as in God provides the ideas and values) but rather that the religions were based on the same god. Yahweh is very different from Allah particularly in the idea that Yahweh is heavily attributed whereas Allah is unknowable. The God of the NT (the Father) seems like a kinder, gentler, wiser form of Yahweh. Variations in writing over time have naturally introduced differences (evolution in action) but Judaism, Christianity and Islam are arguably based on the monotheistic god of the OT - Yahweh.
Nowadays there are all sorts of differences among these religions but modern Judaism, Christianity and Islam are spin-offs from the Torah, and other ancient works.
There is an old joke based on the "my father's house has many rooms" from the gospels. St. Peter is taking a new arrival around the "house" and point out which rooms are which and when St. Peter tiptoes by one of the rooms the newcomer asks who's inside. In a whisper, St. Peter answers in a whisper: "Shhh...it's the fundamentalist christians. They think they're the only ones here."
But, I must admit that the comment "I'd rather laugh with the sinners" is hysterically funny!
It's a lyric from a song by Bill Joel. Only The Good Die Young.
So in other words, god doesn't actually do anything, its all on you.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on. 16 Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground. Exodus14:15 NIV
God expected pray but also demanded immediate action.
While Jesus and the Apostles devoted themselves to prayer they also devoted themselves to action.
Oh, jeebus this old whine again. This just reminds us again how life would be if religious fanatics did achieve their goal of subjugating this country to their primitive superstitions and imaginary spooks. Think A Handmaid's Tale.
I think we should rename Newstalkers as The God Is, No He Isn't, Forum in honor of the daily repetition of the same arguments about religion , and those who love and hate it so much, that we see every day. At least I know what articles to leave unopened and not be worried about missing anything.
At least I know what articles to leave unopened and not be worried about missing anything.
The title of this thread was a big warning.....
We offered our thoughts and prayers for the survivors and their families.
To the surprise of many, that is no longer an acceptable response.
Its not unacceptable, it is just completely pointless. They will not bring back the dead nor prevent any future incidents from occurring. Action is what is needed, not thoughts and prayers, but if thoughts and prayers are all we have, then be prepared to offer up many, many, many more of them.
James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your [ a ] works, and I will show you my faith by my [ b ] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? [ c ] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” [ d ] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
In other words, prayer by itself is pointless and worthless. So, if you pray, then take action, the prayer is still worthless because you took physical action to accomplish something.
In other words, prayer by itself is pointless and worthless. So, if you pray, then take action, the prayer is still worthless because you took physical action to accomplish something.
“Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.”
― Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Well, look at you trying to "have it both ways." Weeelll, it does not work like that! Moreover, nobody ever said it did! You see football teams in the lockerrooms praying together as a team before the big game and then they go out. . . .
You see musical performers praying together before the big concert, then they go out. . . .
You see this team member praying and that race car driver signifying the sign of the cross, and then each carries on. . . .
And here is a story which just blows me away. It occurs during the on-going California fire; in it you there are thousands evacuated, and yet the faith of the Faithful does not failed one iota, because each individual knows it could have been worse. . . .
>>
I am going to post a fire rescue story link from just this week in Northern California. Should you watch it, observe at 2:45 , the rescued man in this harrowing fire rescue mentioning, "the guy up there,. . ." Meaning God. Thus, he is giving his rescue to Another and the pilot and EMT. Now, as for the two hero California chopper rescue officers, I do not have any knowledge of any religious affiliation to point out. But view it for yourself and let the story wash over you.
The link:
<<
8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:
“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.” a]">[ a ]
. . . . 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
I hope you can see from this rescued man's harrowing story how his faith has been increased by the generosity of strangers.
We offered our thoughts and prayers for the survivors and their families.
To the surprise of many, that is no longer an acceptable response.
Not unacceptable. Inadequate.
Just saw this one on Facebook. It seemed timely.
Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day, our garlic bread, …and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. And lead us not into vegetarianism, but deliver us some pizza, for thine is the meatball, the noodle, and the sauce, forever and ever. RAmen
NB: The Constitution is " BY the People For the People " It can be changed/Constitutional Amendments, at ANY time By the " People "!
Do you understand how difficult it is to add amendments and change the Constitution? It's not likely to happen anytime soon. So my previous statements stand!
Praying doesn't help any of those people. It didn't help Newtown, or Columbine, and it hasn't helped Las Vegas.
—Sandy.
Well, I can not find the messages to attach my replies too much now. It is, shall we say, cumbersome. (Once I posted this comment, I can see it is just "inches" away from the Sandy comment it is in reply to. I will just leave it here as an example of what the problem is: I can not see the appropriate message to answer to after say, 500 plus comments!)
Sandy, prayer for ourselves or for others is not a cure for the ills in society or all the issues of this life. God makes the rain to fall on the good and the evil people of this world, for in this world we are coming up together.
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While well intentioned, it doesn't do anything.
Since prayer is pretty much the same as doing nothing (while making the prayor feel like they're doing something), doing something would be far better and more effective than nothing.
Yeah, because the would lose support from the evangelical or conservative base.
Since when is Christianity, or any religion, automatically deserving of respect?
Since prayer is inaction, they are not wrong.
Thinking that prayer actually solves or accomplishes anything is the epitome of ignorance!
Funny how they needed to actually do something to do that. Say, fight a war with Britain for their independence. Prayer didn't do anything.
Key word there is "believe." As in, that's all it is. It still took tangible action on their part.
The Founding Fathers still had to pick up a musket and fight their way to independence.
Sorry to break it to you, but this is a secular nation after all, with a religiously neutral government. Christians don't own this country and there are people of all different faiths, or non-faith, that live here.
If you refer to god, prove there's a god!
Morality is subjective and cannot be legislated!
Nice lip service though.
Too bad prayers don't actually do anything.
Leftists are the party of "doing something", no matter how stupid or misguided it is. Doesn't matter if it will not work or have no effect or will waste billions of taxpayer dollars, they persist in their cries for something to be done.
And as we've seen for the last 8+ years, conservatives (tighty righties) are a party of "do nothing". They do not address problems or seek solutions, they're all too busy yelling "Benghazi" if people ask anything of them and accepting checks from their many lobbyists.
I guess that must mean "righties" are the party of do nothing then. How is that any better?
That means that 1 party tries to help while the other refuses to.
Republicans LOVE big government in the bedroom. The Republican tax plan will raise the lowest tax rate from 10% to 12% because Republicans LOVE to stick it to the working class. Republicans LOVE big deficits.
That is a bunch of disingenuous nonsense. Last i checked the effective tax rate for those in the bottom tax brackets is below 5%. That is to say, after deductions they have paid less than 5% in net federal income tax.
Stop with the spin and misdirection.
Not spin. Not misdirection. The truth. You just can't take it. Most reactionary propagandists can't.
Who is going to pay for Trump's tax cuts for millionaires and his boost in military spending? Who paid for Reagan deficit spending?
Dubya came to office with a surplus and left with trillion-dollar bailouts to corporations, after he crashed the economy and wasted billions in bailouts and wars. Obama spent 8 years trying to clean up that mess.
Yes spin and yes misdirection. Just like you were trained at the hive. Good job!
Interesting, since you never have anything to say that remotely resembles the truth. You should try it sometime.
You mean like Reaganomics, trick down economics, that worked so well. (sarc)
I support all of Trumps proposed budget cuts and that includes repealing Obamacare.
The truth? You can't handle the truth.
Truth:
The bottom bracket pays less than a tenth of a percent of the total FIT. Even with a 2% increase they would pay a smaller net rate than most state sales tax rates. They pay very little already. Fact of the matter is many low incomers get more back than they put in depending on deductions. None of this accounts for the much bigger 15% tax bracket group which would get a 3% DECREASE in FIT. Not talking about that are you?
Disingenuous misdirection:
Any allusion that lower incomers are getting ripped off or cheated. The middle class has always been the group that takes the brunt of that but liberals seemed to a have this hard wired need to wail at the low income wall. Honestly i have no problem if that lower bracket was dropped to zero but only if all related deductions were removed. It's such a small amount it wouldn't really matter. It's also disingenuous because low incomers are already subsidized in many other ways not afforded to other higher wage earners. Bottom line, they shouldn't be making money off of FIT.
So yeah, you can keep doing your best Pee-Wee Herman "i know you are but what am i" impression but you will still be wrong.
The bottom 50% in family wealth hold 1% of the wealth, If you only count the bottom 40% they hold 0% of the wealth. Those are 2013 numbers and it's only gotten worse.
The bottom bracket is just above minimum wage. In NO state can ANYONE afford an apartment unless they make DOUBLE the federal minimum wage.
Yes, let's DO make the working poor, poorer. /s
That's and interesting statistic. The bottom 40% has "zero" percent of the wealth. I'm sure that's a real fair and logical calculation.
That's because most of them don't need to. They live with their parents or others.
But yes, lets do screw the middle class into the ground again, and again, and again ...... /S
Glad you see it that way.
Really? Do you have any data on that claim?
So it's the poor screwing the middle class.
The brainwashing is complete...
You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass. As a reactionary propagandist, we don't expect any more out of you than B.S. We fully understand that you want the poorest to pay more so the elites like Trump and his cabinet can pay less. That's the reactionary creed.
Yes it does appear that it is for you but you can always buzz back to the hive and see if some new stuff has shown up
Awwww don't feel bad. The truth is usually the hardest when it bites you directly on the ass and your ass has obviously been bitten very hard by that truth.
Comment removed for CoC violation [ph] Unjustified, to say the least.
Still waiting for that in depth data...
Data by Dulay. Your own words. Need More in depth data?
And where do you think many are living?
Yes, i understand, i have the temerity to disagree with your biased opinions.
Get used to it. You are way off base.
The folks here saying that are clearly ignorant of their blatant arrogance. Nothing new for for them.
SOSDD
You can have whatever opinion your brain might hold. That doesn't mean you are correct. And talk about being "off base"... you haven't even found your way to the playing field yet. Keep trying.
Yes, there is proof of that all around us.
And thanks for republishing my censored comment. It really is appropriate, isn't it?
You seem to be the one piling on the S in a big way...
Did you ask me for more date? Hmmmm, let me check. Nope, don't see that request anywhere.
However I DO see where I asked you for data which you have yet to supply. You wouldn't be deflecting would you?
Many of who? Please be specific. Oh and again, please supply a link to the evidence on which you base your opinion. In fact, let's make sure we are on the same page.
Here are the pertinent comments:
I said:
You said:
So is your posit that NOONE needs to afford an apartment because EVERYONE is 'living with their parents or others'?
Hell, who knew that we had solved the 2016 housing crisis? Why hasn't Trump taken credit for that one yet?
Aww don't be upset that you yourself provided the data you asked for in a previous post, embrace it. It's the most factual thing you've posted in this thread
Which just reinforces my point.
Comment removed for NT policy and CoC violation [ph]
Comment removed for CoC violations [ph], I don't suppose one would find any right wingers over there at all!
Comment removed for NT policy and CoC violation [ph]
It was just a humorous little jab, Sparty, lighten up.
1) You don't even know what people are praying for, so you're not really in a position to judge its effectiveness.
2) While you may not think it could possibly help, many people appreciate the prayers.
Since there is no scientific study, or any objective research or observation which demonstrates the efficacy of prayer, then yes, I can judge it! Whether people appreciate it or not is subjective and irrelevant. Like I've said before, prayer can be a mental comfort mechanism.
Many people have their palms read and tarot cards to give them guidance, is that a credible approach to you? Some churches do give charity and many provide a lavish lifestyle for themselves and you find justice there.
That makes no sense. Yo have no data, so you reach a conclusion? How is that scientific?
The simple fact that out of probably billions of people praying on a daily basis for who knows how many years, there is not one valid instance of prayer being actually answered or producing a tangible effect by itself. There is no data to suggest that it does either. Therefore, my conclusion is valid.
Sure there is. I have seen it myself and there are many stories on the internet. I expect you will say these things would have happened anyway, but I have literally seen medical miracles that doctors could not explain. I have seen things happen that defy physics. Would you believe them? Doubtful.
People like you always will try to claim without evidence that we must be mistaken or somebody missed something. I believe Jesus himself could show up and raise one of your ancestors from the dead and you still wouldn't believe it. Some people just don't want to be convinced.
But, you may also say, "what about all the prayers that don't result in the outcome asked for?" Well, what of it? Did you ever ask your parents for something only to have them say "no?" Of course you have, but that doesn't mean that asking them is pointless and will never work. Sometimes the answer is "later" or even "no." God has free will, too.
And when medical science heals you, you will undoubtedly credit God for your recovery.
Such stories is subjective and anecdotal.
Just because doctors can't explain something doesn't mean it's a "miracle." "Miracle" is the word people use when they either cannot explain or do not understand something, especially if the result is fortuitous. It might be a feel-good thing, but it's intellectually lazy.
Depends. What do you have? Otherwise, see 1st statement.
Not necessarily. only that what you claim cannot be verified or supported with anything substantial. I'm sure you actually believe your claims. But that's all it is.
When he does, I'll get back to you on that.
And some people only want to convince themselves of something, even if it is absurd.
That only proves that prayer is ineffective and there's no use for it. Although I'm sure many use of for personal comfort.
If there's a god, then that means we do not have free will.
And so this is the state of affairs we find ourselves in, "irreconcilable differences"! Conservatives trying to force liberals to join them in reverence for a sovereign Leader, and Secularists declaring war on the Divine.
Aren't we all a hot mess now?
As for prayer, for believer's prayers live the spirit and aid in focusing the mind of the spiritual and physical good. Conservatives! How you have screwed this up. How you say? Because your spiritual "stiff-necks" and your physical "hardcases" have caused ridicule for every complimentary effort you put for! You have brought suspicion and open rancor upon yourselves and your efforts. Liberals simply can not trust you, conservatives!
Note: These articles, these contentious comments, are giving social media another BLACK-EYE! We are becoming "sounding cymbals" in a parade without a destination anywhere in sight. Peace.
Here's a