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Planned Parenthood Accused of Violating HIPPA Standards to Sell Aborted Baby Parts

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  singled-out-3  •  9 years ago  •  456 comments

Planned Parenthood Accused of Violating HIPPA Standards to Sell Aborted Baby Parts

A procurement technician who worked closely with Planned Parenthood has claimed the organization gave its contractors access to patient’s private medical information, thus violating Health Insurance Portability and Privacy Act standards.

Holly O’Donnell was a procurement technician for StemExpress, LLC., which receives medical tissues and samples from Planned Parenthood.

O’Donnell alleges that she and other technicians “were given print-outs with patients’ names and medical information, access to patient medical charts, and even access to Planned Parenthood’s internal computer database of patient information,” according to Life News.

The technicians even had access to patient information from other Planned Parenthood locations and were often requested to forward this information to their supervisors, she said.

O’Donnell described her claims in an interview with David Daleiden, founder of the Center for Medical Progress.

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She claimed her employer would provide her with a sheet describing the type of materials needed for the day.

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O’Donnell provided an example of a “specimen” that might be needed: the liver from a fetus at 15 weeks gestation.

O’Donnell said the head nurse at Planned Parenthood would then “give you a sheet of the appointments, which women were coming in, and it would tell you how many patients, what time they were coming in, their name, and if they knew how far along they were.”

O’Donnell would then look for a woman whose pregnancy was at the right stage and highlight her name to later ask for permission to harvest the baby’s liver.

The task sheet O’Donnell provided details the other kinds of baby tissues StemExpress was looking for, including brains and kidneys at certain stages of fetal development.  

Once permission was given, O’Donnell would draw the blood or dissect the organ.

After almost a year of employment with the company, O’Donnell has now left her position at Stem Express.

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At one point, a colleague even requested O’Donnell write in a patient’s chart.

In the interview, O’Donnell explained how she reacted to the request.

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“I told her, I said, ‘No I won’t do that.'”

O’Donnell said the employee who asked her to write in the chart pushed her, saying “Well, it’s part of your job.”

“I said, ‘No, it’s not part of my job, that’s out of my scope of practice, I could lose my license because of it,'” O’Donnell said.

It’s not the first time Planned Parenthood has been accused of violating HIPPA standards to sell tissue from aborted fetuses.

In June, 2016, a congressional investigation was opened into Planned Parenthood’s alleged mishandling of patient information.

“The key to understanding the HIPAA and consent violations that we’ve referred to HHS is that there’s a business contract between StemExpress and the abortion clinics under which both sides make a profit from the baby body parts inside the young woman’s womb,” Republican Rep Marsha Blackurn of Tennessee said at the time.

“The contract changes the way both entities view the young woman: her baby is now a profit-center. This betrayal of a young woman’s trust should disgust us all.”

Blackburn added, “It takes financial advantage, obtains consent through coercion, and deceives the woman, all in violation of federal privacy laws.”   https://www.westernjournalism.com/planned-parenthood-accused-violating-hippa-standards-sell-aborted-baby-parts/


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Gordy327
Professor Participates
1  Gordy327    9 years ago

More anti-abortion propaganda BS I see.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
1.2  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @1    9 years ago
More anti-abortion propaganda BS I see.

Claims of Hillary being a shapeshifting alien aren't working to deflect attention from Trump, so Fox News turns on another obvious idea that gets conservatives in a lather and that is abortion. 

Is there an edited video to go with this claim?

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
2  Rhyferys    9 years ago

Lots of spurious claims, let's see the evidence. I'm just pleased that they are wasting their money pursuing these ludicrous "claims", it prevents them from doing anything meaningful.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Participates
2.1  Gordy327  replied to  Rhyferys @2    9 years ago
let's see the evidence.

That's what I'd like to see too. But then, many anti-abortionists are not interested in evidence or facts. Only in lying or appeals to emotion to further their own agenda.

 
 
 
Freefaller
Professor Quiet
2.1.1  Freefaller  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1    9 years ago
appeals to emotion

More of that than anything else

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
2.1.3  epistte  replied to  Gordy327 @2.1    9 years ago

Operation Rescue, Center for Medical Progress Ally

The radical anti-abortion group Operation Rescue worked “in consultation” with the Center for Medical Progress on their anti-Planned Parenthood videos.

Cheryl Sullenger, the senior policy advisor for Operation Rescue, was jailed for her attempt to commit terrorism and bomb an abortion clinic. Sullegener was part of a group who set up a gasoline bomb at an abortion clinic in San Diego.

Sullenger was also in communication with Scott Roeder, the man who killed abortion provider Doctor George Tiller in Kansas. She helped Roeder track court appearances for Tiller, before Roeder eventually murdered him.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5  True American Pat    9 years ago

This country gives the dead more rights than a living human being......if you desecrate a corpse......you go to prison.

 
 
 
Willjay9
Freshman Silent
5.1  Willjay9  replied to  True American Pat @5    9 years ago
This country gives the dead more rights than a living human being......

Have no clue what you mean.....a fetus is not considered a living human being, so your point is moot

 
 
 
Willjay9
Freshman Silent
5.1.2  Willjay9  replied to    9 years ago
so we're splitting hairs to justify killing the unborn.

No, you are the one splitting hairs to justify your agenda.....my hair has the law to back it up and that all that matters regarding this topic about abortion

What does yours have?

 
 
 
Willjay9
Freshman Silent
5.1.4  Willjay9  replied to    9 years ago

Comedy! How can I redefine a current law? All I'm doing is reiterating it!

Didn't the Democrats have the law on their side when they justified slavery and Jim Crow?

Didn't Progressives have the law on their side when they justified sterilization/euthanasia of criminals and insane persons?

Didn't the Nazis have the law (Nuremberg laws) on their side when they justified seizing wealth and committing genocide?

Comedy! NOW who is splitting hairs! You went from party affiliation to ideology to Nazis to try to make an baseless point, Well, I can do that also, CONSERVATIVES created Jim Crow laws, and CONSERVATIVES were the ones on the side of sterilization/euthanasia the only thing about that being "Progressive" is that it happened during the Progressive ERA! Oops!

And I don't accept your argument.

You don't have to accept my argument.......you just have to accept the law! (Doesn't your bible teach you that?)

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
5.2  Explorerdog  replied to  True American Pat @5    9 years ago

If you kill a baby, you go to prison, if you kill a viable fetus you go to prison, once again the details matter.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.2.1  True American Pat  replied to  Explorerdog @5.2    9 years ago

Thanks for clarifying current law.....I think we all know what our current law says.....doesn't mean I have to agree with it......Laws and definitions get changed all the time......

 
 
 
Explorerdog
Freshman Silent
5.2.2  Explorerdog  replied to  True American Pat @5.2.1    9 years ago

The law is clear it somehow your interpretation that is muddy.

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.2.3  True American Pat  replied to  Explorerdog @5.2.2    9 years ago

Please clarify how "my" interpretation of the current law is muddy.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
5.2.4  Jasper2529  replied to  Explorerdog @5.2    9 years ago
if you kill a viable fetus you go to prison

There's no concrete definition of "viable". Some large medical studies in the USA have shown that a fetus can be "viable" at 22 weeks and can live a normal, productive life.  Here's an article from 2015:

A new study that finds some extremely premature babies can   survive outside the womb   with aggressive medical intervention adds to the debate over viability, a complex medical concept that is not necessarily well-defined.

According to a   sweeping review   of thousands of infants who were born before 27 weeks of pregnancy, which was published this week in the   New England Journal of Medicine , a very small number of babies born at 22 weeks were able to survive without major health problems after receiving state-of-the-art medical treatment. If their doctors or parents did not pursue treatment, there was no chance of survival at all.

In Bell’s mind, the emerging research in the field suggests that 22 weeks could be considered a new definition of viability. “That’s what we think, but this is a pretty controversial area,” he   told the Times . “I guess we would say that these babies deserve a chance.”

“Viability” is the vague standard that currently defines legal abortion ; the Supreme Court stipulates that states may not restrict abortion before a fetus is viable outside of the womb. But Americans might be surprised to learn that “viability”   doesn’t actually have a firm definition  — and never has. Although many people use 24 weeks as a shorthand for talking about issues related to viability, there’s no line in the sand.

I found it interesting that Think Progress published this article, because it's a Left wing site. 

------------------------------------------------

Week 22:

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.3  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @5    9 years ago
This country gives the dead more rights than a living human being......if you desecrate a corpse......you go to prison.

Comment removed for skirting the CoC [ph]

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.3.1  True American Pat  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @5.3    9 years ago

Do you know me?  I didn't realize that this was about me personally.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.3.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @5.3.1    9 years ago
Do you know me?

You are known by your "lights" as the saying goes.  Did you think you've been mysterious? 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.3.3  True American Pat  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @5.3.2    9 years ago

So now this discussion is about me?.....and I don't know what you mean by "Lights"....???

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.3.4  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @5.3.3    9 years ago
So now this discussion is about me?.....and I don't know what you mean by "Lights"....???

It's certainly about your moralizing and you can look up the expression.  If you don't feel capable of doing that I'd be happy to help you.  

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.3.5  True American Pat  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @5.3.4    9 years ago

Again.....this discussion isn't about me.  If I'm wrong please post where the article states that it is.......Otherwise, Give it a Rest.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
5.3.6  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  True American Pat @5.3.5    9 years ago
Again.....this discussion isn't about me.  If I'm wrong please post where the article states that it is.......Otherwise, Give it a Rest.

Maybe you're too sensitive a soul for this sort of back and forth.  The cost of pontificating about morality is being called out for hypocrisy and if you're not willing to pay that cost you have a couple of options. 

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.3.7  True American Pat  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @5.3.6    9 years ago

Maybe you're too sensitive a soul

Nope....not at all.....just following the rules......and in the spirit of "following the rules".....I'm done discussing this with you.....take the hint......

 
 
 
True American Pat
Freshman Silent
5.3.9  True American Pat  replied to    9 years ago

Thanks HoC!

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
5.4  epistte  replied to  True American Pat @5    9 years ago
This country gives the dead more rights than a living human being......if you desecrate a corpse......you go to prison.

Desecrating the living is known as murder. A fetus isn't alive because it cannot survive on its own. When it is living separately from the mother's body it has the very same rights as you and me.

The problem is that conservatives do not see women as being equals but only as vessels for birthing kids and as such you have no problem with taking rights away from us when we get pregnant so as to control us and shame us. Women are not second-class citizens in the US, despite what some people or your church may believe.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
6  charger 383    9 years ago

overpopulation is biggest problem on earth

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
7  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu     9 years ago

Killing babies SUCKS.

BUT Evidently America decided long ago supporting those unwanted babies SUCKED ever more. 

Don't like abortion? Change the law and be prepared to pay to support millions of unwanted children. 

Better yet dont get pregnant unless you want and can support the baby. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
7.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @7    9 years ago
Better yet dont get pregnant unless you want and can support the baby.

Then you should be willing to support free, easily available contraception for poor women and the expansion, not closing of Planned Parenthood clinics which provide contraception counselling and meds free for women who can't afford it.  PP has prevented many times more abortions than providing them through contraception and would love to eliminate all abortions if it could do so that way.  Where are you on the right's attempt to destory PP?  

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
7.2.1  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @7.2    9 years ago

IMO planed Parenthood has done a fantastic job helping many women maintain their health for many years. 

I see NO reason for that to be disrupted. (If anything expansion may be helpful)

And I also agree with free or at least reduced pricing of contraceptives to the people who cant afford them. It's so much better (and probably far cheaper and certainly more human) than killing or supporting millions of unwanted babies.

 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Silent
9  magnoliaave    9 years ago

I am pro choice.  Putting aside the welfare business bad things happen to children when the parent really doesn't want them.  They are abused, they are murdered, they are sold, etc.  In these instances, the child, usually, doesn't see a cent of welfare money given to the parent. 

The excuses given for unprotected sex are wearying.  And, heaven knows, we wouldn't want you to pass up sex when there is no protection!  That would be too responsible! 

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Guide
9.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magnoliaave @9    9 years ago
The excuses given for unprotected sex are wearying.  And, heaven knows, we wouldn't want you to pass up sex when there is no protection!  That would be too responsible!

Accidents happen even with protection. I am living proof of that, LOL. 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Silent
9.1.1  magnoliaave  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @9.1    9 years ago

Does happen, for sure. 

The classic statement my niece gave to her mother. 
"I forgot to take it".

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
9.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  magnoliaave @9    9 years ago
They are abused, they are murdered, they are sold, etc.

....ignored and discounted by rightwing politicians who insist poor women must carry every pregnancy to term whether the want to or not......

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Silent
9.2.1  magnoliaave  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @9.2    9 years ago

That is not my stance at all. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
9.2.2  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  magnoliaave @9.2.1    9 years ago
That is not my stance at all.

Just what is your "stance" on PP then? 

 
 
 
magnoliaave
Sophomore Silent
9.2.3  magnoliaave  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @9.2.2    9 years ago

IMO, it is not a right wing judgment alone.  One doesn't have to be politically involved nor care about politics to have an opinion on abortions or the clinic.

If the decision is made for an abortion, please, do it before the baby starts moving about and letting you know it really exists.  It is like a butterfly moving across your abdomen.  This is, usually, about five months.

Just because women get pregnant doesn't mean that all women are meant to mothers.  So, if a woman just feels she can't go through it, then, by all means get the abortion and don't put this child through the agony of being born without proper love and care.

My stance.

 
 
 
epistte
Junior Participates
9.3  epistte  replied to  magnoliaave @9    9 years ago
And, heaven knows, we wouldn't want you to pass up sex when there is no protection!

Just say no has failed as a policy, despite what people believe. Our biology isn't that simple.  The solution is comprehensive sex ed in public schools with the use of effective birth control to be the rule rather than being the exception.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
11  Sunshine    9 years ago

our laws extensively protect our nation.  Trees are protected, animals protected, lakes, seas, oceans, property, land, building, homes, parks, schools, beaches, climate and environment protected, sky, clouds, air, money, corporations, government, airplanes, military, religion, food, speeches, books, movies, prisons, and it goes on and on

but, and unborn child...not much.

I find it to be a hard topic also

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
11.1  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sunshine @11    9 years ago
but, and unborn child...not much.

You people ought to know by now that no one (except yourselves) buys that phony "we care about the child" crap from you any more.  There's just far too much evidence of the contrary. 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
12  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו    9 years ago
A procurement technician who worked closely with Planned Parenthood has claimed the organization gave its contractors access to patient’s private medical information, thus violating Health Insurance Portability and Privacy Act standards.

This rightwing tactic will never die despite how it always turns out to be a lie.  Those secret and faked videos that purported to claim that PP was selling body parts of aborted fetuses was one of the most despicable and egregious examples of the lengths of lying and scubaggery these people will go to in order to spread their ghastly immorality.  

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
12.1  Raven Wing   replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @12    9 years ago

Agreed! PP proves women with many, many more life saving services other than just abortions. To arbitrarily shut them down PP due to the fact that they provide abortions is to deny poor women the kind of treatment they truly need and can't afford is totally uncalled for. If they feel the need to ban them from performing abortions then they can at least allow them to stay open to provide the other much needed health care they need and deserve. Not everyone in America can afford health ins, but, their lives still matter, or should matter. I know several young women who are alive today due to the life saving treatment they got from PP that had NOTHING to do with an abortion.  

Just my opinion. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
12.1.3  Raven Wing   replied to    9 years ago
I for one don't think the'll shut their doors if they could no longer preform abortions.

Sadly....it won't be a matter for PP to decide once the funding from the states and Federal gov. is totally cut for even the other services they will be  forced to shut down. Which is the case in some states already. Losing the Cancer screening, HIV testing and Mammograms provided by PP is already having an very scary affect on some areas, such as in areas of Pennsylvania where the outbreak of HIV is near epidemic due to the lack of HIV testing PP provided in those areas. 

So all those who are screaming for all PP to be shut down are not really looking at the reality of their choice. Like the old saying, "Careful what you wish for...."

Just my opinin. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
12.1.5  Raven Wing   replied to    9 years ago

If that is so, then ask the PP centers that were caused to shut down because of the loss of both state Medicaid and Gov funding that was intended to shut their doors in the states that have already shut down many of the PP centers using that tactic. 

Pennsylvania, Texas and Indiana are but a few of the states that have succeeded in shuttering many of the PP centers in their states. 

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
12.1.7  Raven Wing   replied to    9 years ago

The main problem is that private funding to off set their costs to provide the other services not associated with abortions is insufficient to keep them open without the reimbursement from the government and states for those costs. 

It seems to me to be a planned attack on PP as a whole to shut them all down. Pittsburgh Penn. is a good example of the backlash of what closing the PP Centers in those areas where free HIV testing was conducted can lead do. They have near epidemic HIV/AIDS in the Western area of that state. 

But, what the heck, fanatic religious groups don't care about those people. But, not all AIDS infected people are druggies or 'homos' as some people like to call them, or like to think. 

Just my own opinion. 

 
 
 
Galen Marvin Ross
Sophomore Quiet
12.1.8  Galen Marvin Ross  replied to    9 years ago
They receive plenty of private donations and would still receive Medicaid reimbursement from patients. Halting Government funding wouldn't cause them to shutter the windows or bar the doors. They'll be fine. And that's a worst case scenario.

You should go to the areas were they have shut down because of funding cuts by the government and, tell the women there what you have said here, see how they react to that.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
12.1.9  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to    9 years ago
If they stopped providing abortions would their other services cease? I for one don't think the'll shut their doors if they could no longer preform abortions.

Yes, because in anti-choice states the goal has been, and successfully, to create ridiculous standards of care for PP facilities and for doctors staffing them that they have been forced to close down. The goal is to shut down PP entirely because one of the other anti-choicer targets is birth control.  Here's still more evidence of how little you know about the country you're living in, far beyond it's natural attributes.

The founder of PP, Margaret Sanger, was a vocal eugenics enthusiast.

Of course, the most vicious proponents of eugenics in this country were the slaveowners and sympathizers in this country but let's not dwell on that elephant and instead go after a peanut, right? And never mind the resurgence of the breed in the form of our current scourge of white supremacists who are fearful their "superiority" is being threatened by all these poorer genetic specimens getting to be to numerous in the country.  But back to the point, yes; eugenics was a faulty "science" and in this country was in vogue for a deservedly brief time, unlike in, say, Germany and didn't have a lot of general popular support here except from the KKK, of course.  And,  I'll bet it will surprise you to know of some other prominent Americans who were among the fold:

Helen Keller¹

Theodore Roosevelt¹

WEB Dubois (black intellectuals also bought in)² 

J.H. Kellogg (yep, the cereal guy)²

Alexander Graham Bell²

Luther Burbank²

Also one pretty famous and well-loved Brit:

Winston Churchill¹

Even you must be getting the idea by now.  When people like you decide to start flinging your poo at your favorite bugbears you should keep in mind (cue laughter here) that it's always going to hit someone you'd rather not smear.  

¹

²

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
13  LynneA    9 years ago

In the name of federal law, how many times are we going down this path? 

The employee asserting PP broke our privacy laws either has enough evidence to proceed in court or doesn't.  

Our collective opinions results in zero, zilch, zippo influence on whether this sees the light of day in court.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Guide
13.1  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  LynneA @13    9 years ago

Lynne,

Isn't this last year's news?

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
13.1.1  LynneA  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @13.1    9 years ago

Yep.

Waste of forum space.

Riles up the crew to no avail.

 
 
 
Raven Wing
Professor Participates
13.1.2  Raven Wing   replied to  LynneA @13.1.1    9 years ago

Yes. That is the only reason that these types of articles are posted. Merely to stir the Scheisse and try to a lot of comments to build their own egos.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
15  charger 383    9 years ago

Pencils have erasers to correct mistakes

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Silent
16  lennylynx    9 years ago

Can I get a drumstick?  Happy

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17  Sunshine    9 years ago

abortion is not the ultimate and most permanent abuse?

a fetus is a human.  only difference between a fetus and a baby, child, toddler, preteen, teenager, adult, senior, etc is the stage of development.  a fetus is a prenatal human.  it is part of the human species.  a newborn is postnatal human.  

abortion is killing a human.  no...it isn't a termination....no soft words....let's not pretty it up to make it easier to accept.

one can call it a fetus, an alien, a blob of cells or whatever term seems to make it more acceptable to them.  It doesn't change that the fetus, zygote, or the blob of cells is one of us.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Silent
17.1  lennylynx  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago

i've seen some films on abortion and it's absolutely horrible, but I'm still pro choice.  The reason is simple, a woman should not be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.  There's no damn way I'm ever going to accept that.  

If men could get pregnant, there would be a free abortion clinic on every street corner and we would not even be debating the issue.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
17.1.2  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to    9 years ago
WTF?!..........LOL

I learned long ago not to associate logic with American laws.

American laws are not based on logic or even common sense.

For instance is it logical to legally sell deadly poisons on every street corner in America (tobacco and alcohol) and at the same time criminalize a non lethal alternative non poisonous (marijuana).

Where the Hell (WTF) is the logic or common sence there ? Sorely lacking I'd say. (Lots of now dead people would probably agree.) (if they could) 

So I saw long ago American laws are not based on logic or common sense at all.

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Participates
17.1.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to    9 years ago

I understand completely. I also agree.

In my opinion both of our "causes" (agendas) are important.

Both cost society.  

I am the sole survivor in my family, the rest are dead alcoholics. Legal alcohol is the reason. 

meanwhile my alternative is still illegal as I live on and more people die from that deadly poison sold everywhere..

So yeah WTF is the logic in American laws... nowhere to be found is where, abortion, contraceptives and marijuana as just a couple of prime examples.

BUT, He who has the Gold makes the rules, always been that way , probably always will be.

 
 
 
lennylynx
Sophomore Silent
17.1.6  lennylynx  replied to    9 years ago

Legalization of marijuana.

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
17.1.7  Rhyferys  replied to  lennylynx @17.1    9 years ago

armwomen.png

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Silent
17.2  charger 383  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago

BUT, why is it any of your business?

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
17.3  lib50  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago
one can call it a fetus, an alien, a blob of cells or whatever term seems to make it more acceptable to them.

So when most pregnancies do NOT make it to term for reasons having nothing to do with abortion, what do you call that?  You can call abortion whatever you want, and believe whatever you want.  You do NOT have the right to force that belief on to the rest of us.  I don't even remotely think the way you do about pregnancy and when life begins.  Are you the christian taliban, trying to force your narrow dogma down our throats?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
17.5  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago
etc is the stage of development.

Then by your thinking, masturbation is murder. A sperm is a living cell at an early stage of human development.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Participates
17.6  Dulay  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago
one can call it a fetus, an alien, a blob of cells or whatever term seems to make it more acceptable to them. It doesn't change that the fetus, zygote, or the blob of cells is one of us.

So you must support some kind of 'life saving' procedure for the product of every monthly menstrual discharge of every woman on the planet. After all, there JUST MIGHT be 'one of us' in there right?

Will the zygote EMTs make continuous rounds or do we need to call 911 for the required government response every time we change a pad or a tampon? Will the government be required to supply the proper 'incubator' for our discharge so that the 'life' of 'one of us' can be sustained until the zygote EMTs respond? Or do we have to pay the incubators ourselves TOO? 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
17.6.1  Jasper2529  replied to  Dulay @17.6    9 years ago
So you must support some kind of 'life saving' procedure for the product of every monthly menstrual discharge of every woman on the planet. After all, there JUST MIGHT be 'one of us' in there right?

Most people learn basic reproduction facts in middle school and in greater detail in high school Bio 1. "one of us" might be "in there" only if an egg has been fertilized by a sperm . A healthy female's "monthly menstrual discharge" (menstruation) usually does not contain a fertilized egg:

What's the menstrual cycle?

The menstrual cycle is the monthly series of changes a woman's body goes through in preparation for the possibility of pregnancy. Each month, one of the ovaries releases an egg — a process called ovulation. At the same time, hormonal changes prepare the uterus for pregnancy. If ovulation takes place and the egg isn't fertilized, the lining of the uterus sheds through the vagina. This is a menstrual period.

The   menstrual cycle   occurs due to the rise and fall of   hormones . [2]   This cycle results in the thickening of the lining of the uterus, and the growth of an   egg , (which is required for   pregnancy ). [2] The egg is released from an ovary around day fourteen in the cycle; the thickened lining of the uterus provides   nutrients   to an embryo after   implantation . [2]  If pregnancy does not occur, the lining is released in what is known as menstruation. [2]

 
 
 
Rhyferys
Freshman Silent
17.6.2  Rhyferys  replied to  Jasper2529 @17.6.1    9 years ago

While a sperm only contains 1/2 of the genetic complement needed, an egg has it all. It could easily be sparked into reproducing or cloned. Yet another possible future human, down the drain. No different then a fertilized egg that fails to implant, another quite common occurrence.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.6.3  Sunshine  replied to  Rhyferys @17.6.2    9 years ago

menstruation and sperm ejaculation are natural processes for reproduction.  many sperm cells die and also eggs will not be fertilized.  it is a part of the natural human reproduction cycle.  you do know that the human body is able to produce millions of sperm and a whole bunch of eggs?  because it is what is needed for humans to be able to procreate.

comparing this natural reproduction process to the procedure of killing a human is deceitful.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
17.6.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @17.6.3    9 years ago
comparing this natural reproduction process to the procedure of killing a human is deceitful.

Claiming a newly fertilized egg is a human is deceitful.

Up to 50% of fertilized eggs end in miscarriage, so that's part of the natural process as well, what is the difference if a fertilized egg is ended by choice? Or is some peoples imaginary sky wizard the only one allowed to make that choice?

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.6.5  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @17.6.4    9 years ago
Up to 50% of fertilized eggs end in miscarriage, so that's part of the natural process as well,

well yes it is

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.6.6  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @17.6.4    9 years ago
Claiming a newly fertilized egg is a human is deceitful.

then what species is it?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
17.6.7  Jasper2529  replied to  Rhyferys @17.6.2    9 years ago

I addressed the specifics of Dulay's 17.6 comment. You chose to embellish that which I was not addressing.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
17.6.8  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sunshine @17.6.6    9 years ago

then what species is it?

I don't know - why don't you put it on a slide under a microscope and study it, then we'll see how many seconds it survives.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.6.9  Sunshine  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @17.6.8    9 years ago

lol..ok is that going to tell us what species it is?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
17.6.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Sunshine @17.6.9    9 years ago

Well, it does have your good looks, so maybe it is human.

eggsperm2.jpg

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
17.6.11  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @17.6.4    9 years ago

Doesn't that mean "God" is the universe's most active abortionist? 

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
17.6.12  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @17.6.10    9 years ago

My cat gagged up something exactly like that this morning. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Participates
17.6.13  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @17.6.11    9 years ago

He promised not to drown the world anymore, so he now gets his kicks by snuffing out potential babies.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Quiet
17.6.14  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Sunshine @17.6.5    9 years ago
well yes it is

I see you decided not to answer my question, "what is the difference if a fertilized egg is ended by choice?".

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.6.15  Sunshine  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @17.6.14    9 years ago

well I guess one can choose to kill the embryo through an abortion, but I don't see why it would be the same as a natural miscarriage.

explain why it would?

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
17.6.16    replied to  Rhyferys @17.6.2    9 years ago
No different then a fertilized egg that fails to implant, another quite common occurrence.

E.A   Just to take the " Heat "    out of this, lets just take it to an Animal Husbandry Farm::

 Lets look at this scenario:

A Farmer Breeds  the Stock there are hundreds in the Pen, some, is well known will die from " Natural Causes " some farms have a " Loss Ratio " as High as 10%.. Here is the Question!!

 WOULD Any Animals Lover see the " Natural Loss " the SAME as some One Wilfully  Killing 99.9% of the stocks in the Pen?

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7  LynneA  replied to  Sunshine @17    9 years ago

Having observed your point, I'm curious where you stand on IVF given it's processes.  What about organ donation?  Hospice care?

IMO, each of these procedures put a hand on the life scale and yet many pro-life advocates are often silent.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.7.1  Sunshine  replied to  LynneA @17.7    9 years ago

why would anyone think IVF is the same as abortion?  

what are your thoughts on that?

organ donor and hospice care?  what is your point with these comparisons?

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
17.7.2  Jasper2529  replied to  LynneA @17.7    9 years ago

What do IVF, organ donations, and hospice care have to do with abortion?

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.3  LynneA  replied to  Sunshine @17.7.1    9 years ago

They all deal with life and who determines when/if it begins or ends.  I'm interested where your opinions fall in the areas I've inquired.

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.4  LynneA  replied to  Jasper2529 @17.7.2    9 years ago

All about life and how each of us have opinions regarding the same.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.7.5  Sunshine  replied to  LynneA @17.7.3    9 years ago

well, I wasn't discussing where life begins or ends

but like I said what are your thoughts?

again what is your point?  do you have one?

 
 
 
user image
Freshman Silent
17.7.6    replied to  Jasper2529 @17.7.2    9 years ago

E.A  Jasper why not do a search and find out!

Here is a Hint:

 What Prise Foetal Body Parts?

 Who and where are suppliers?

 Do some Females make a profit from Abortions?

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
17.7.7  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  @17.7.6    9 years ago

 What Prise Foetal Body Parts?

 Who and where are suppliers?

 Do some Females make a profit from Abortions?

You know, that ploy of asking questions to imply there are nefarious things going on when there aren't is straight out of every gossip column handbook.  And it only works on the horribles who believe that BS in the first place. 

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.8  LynneA  replied to  Sunshine @17.7.5    9 years ago

abortion is killing a human

Your statement has everything to do with life.  If you don't want to answer my original questions, fine.  Was trying to understand your views as they relate to other procedures and "life" given your stance on abortion.  If you don't wish to share, so be it.

 
 
 
Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו
Junior Quiet
17.7.9  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו  replied to  Sunshine @17.7.1    9 years ago
why would anyone think IVF is the same as abortion?

I'll happily take that one.  The process of IVF involves fertilizing  multiple eggs--up to a dozen.  Once there's a successful pregnancy the unused fertilized eggs are destroyed.  In the anti-choice world those are abortions.  Yet many people who are opposed to abortion have used IVF.  

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.10  LynneA  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @17.7.7    9 years ago

Makes serious dialogue impossible. 

 
 
 
Jasper2529
Professor Quiet
17.7.11  Jasper2529  replied to  LynneA @17.7.4    9 years ago
All about life and how each of us have opinions regarding the same.

Equating IVF, organ donations, and hospice to abortion doesn't make sense.

  • IVF and organ donations = creating/perpetuating life.
  • Hospice/abortion = end of life.

No one goes into hospice with hopes of surviving, and no one gets an abortion to preserve life.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.7.12  Sunshine  replied to  LynneA @17.7.8    9 years ago

well I asked you to share your thoughts on it also, and you chose not to.

Hospice - comforting those who are dying

IVT - process to producing life

Organ donation - saving life

what correlation to abortion any of these are I don't know.

you have refused to tell me what your point is.  so yes it will end here.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.7.13  Sunshine  replied to  Atheist יוחנן בן אברהם אבינו @17.7.9    9 years ago

you can read 17.6.1.1

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.14  LynneA  replied to  Jasper2529 @17.7.11    9 years ago

Although I've not equated any of these issues, we can engage.

Your stance on IVF is true, the intent is to produce life.  Yet, in the course of attempting to produce life in a clinical setting embryos are often rejected, destroyed in the freezing process, donated to medical research. 

Pro-life advocates see life being produced via IVF, but not murder for all the failed, destroyed or donated embryos.  I'm trying to gain perspective. 

 
 
 
LynneA
Freshman Silent
17.7.16  LynneA  replied to  Sunshine @17.7.12    9 years ago

Each instance I've given is about choice.  Someone making a choice given the best medical information available in a given period of time. 

Being pro-choice, viewing abortion as the LAST course of action, my views of IVF, Hospice and Organ Donation are that as well...last course of action.  All wrenching decisions best left to those who need to make them.

 
 
 
Sunshine
Professor Quiet
17.7.17  Sunshine  replied to  LynneA @17.7.16    9 years ago

well I guess we need to agree to disagree on something (not sure what it is,lol), because I can not fathom why any of these have to do with abortion.

because one makes a choice...I guess you are saying abortion it is acceptable.

 
 
 
Skrekk
Sophomore Quiet
19  Skrekk    9 years ago
O’Donnell described her claims in an interview with David Daleiden, founder of the Center for Medical Progress.

Daleiden is the fraudster responsible for one of the more recent video hoaxes about PP.   People who believe anything promoted by that liar must be quite gullible.

 
 
 
lib50
Professor Silent
20  lib50    9 years ago

This is old shit, shot down, lies and edits and Daleiden was sued by PP, and he had to pay up.  What exactly was  PP found guilty of again?  Nothing?  Louder? NOTHING! Is this more Trump schtick, projecting guilt on to the other side to deflect?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
22  devangelical    9 years ago

baby parts. the deranged killers that articles like this are trying to provoke into more murderous actions against PP hopefully mistake the thumpers demonstrating out front as PP patrons.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Guide
23  Perrie Halpern R.A.    9 years ago

Singled out 3, you are about to become singled out 2. In the 2 days that this hot button article has been up, you came on 3 times, twice to repeat the same comment 19 hours later and none of the time to take responsibility for any moderation or content. Until you show me that you can take responsibility for your content, you are down to 2 articles seeded a day.  This article is locked for lack of proper moderation. 

 
 

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