President Trump is going to put Troops on the Southern Border?
Trump says the military will secure the southern border until wall can be built
Is it constitutional?
Article 4 of the US Constitution:
Section 4 . The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
Question 1: Is it Constitutional?
Question 2: Do you support it and why?
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So our biggest threat that requires military intervention is Mexico? Republicans just got all this extra money for the military for THAT? This is the most effective way to expend resources, including monetary? First of all, I'd expect anything that moves forward to actually not merely be a Trump brain fart, but studied and proven to be necessary (which has not been shown). I'm reeling from the clusterfuck, to be honest. I say no, it makes no sense whatsoever.
So just continue to let the flood of illegals keep flowing into the US??
Rather then station armed active duty regular Army troops along our border who have no authority to enforce any America laws, even crossing the border, yes.
And BTW, it's not a flood. The number of illegals coming over the border has decreased dramatically over the past 10 years or so. We are not being invaded by a flood.
I think that he would run into problems under the ''Posse Comitatus Act''...
That, and the fact that our military are stretched thin all over the world with many serving multi combat tours. Why would we make it even more difficult for them by posting them on the souther border.
Many in places where they should not be. Time to bring the vast majority of them home.
Doesn't he have to declare Martial Law to use federal troops that way?
Nope. Just like the last 2 presidents didn't.
good. I expected nothing less
the trickle of illegals does not rate a militarized response... but this? rates nothing less.
actually... those stupid fuks marching towards our country are doing us a favor.
we can thank the advancing hordes for the opportunity to put boots on our border. (and keep them there)
let no crisis go to waste... yadda yadda
the border will become just another military duty station... LOL
Cheers
A thousand people is a horde? lol.
Do they each have a briefcase nuke strapped to their back?
The blowhard Trump has been telling us for a year that illegal crossings of the border have been drastically reduced because of his policies since Jan 2017, and now he says we are in a panic desperate situation. Redacted. Although it doesn't appear to be directed at the person you were replying to, somebody felt it was, and I can't disagree that perception rules in this case - PRF
It would be a fair guess that something is brewing with Mueller, which is why Trump is hitting frantic 200mph.
He wants daily distractions now, which is why all the dramatic tweets every day.
It's relevant to Trumps thoughts about the border.
Trump has been telling us for a year that illegal entry is way down since he took office. That being the case, unless he is lying, why would we need the Army down there?
10,000 troops standing around with their thumbs up their asses. That's what Trump calls progress.
The comment refers to President* Trump, who I am not endeared to. Sorry. Find something else to whine about.
Show me where in the COC I am prevented from referring to president* Trump as a fuckhead?
More like hundreds of thousands. About half a million annually . And yeah: that's a horde.
No, thatsa bullsheet.
Wait a minute, look at FY18, compared with the same months in FY15 and FY 16 when Obama was in office.
Those figures all look pretty similar.
Trump has been claiming that illegal entries across the southern border are way down now that he is in charge. Has he been lying to us?
You do realize, I hope, that that chart came from US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) - the very agency charged with protecting our border from migrating illegal aliens. So, if you have a problem with the data of their inflow to this country, feel free to cite a more expert source.
Yes because that is relevant to the border?
Well that's exactly the point.
Whenever there's news that Trump doesn't like, he typically does one of two things-- goes on the attack directly & unleashes a YUGE Twitter storm,,,or creates a distraction.
The Mueller Witch Hunt is starting to have some major sucesses (they've already produced indictments and guilty pleas, but in fact, the first "Witch" they uncovered was just actually sentenced!
So Trump needs a distraction...he's firing people, attacking Amazon, and using his favourite scare tactic-- the threats of YuGE (bigly YUGE in fact)...YUGE HORDES of Hispanics surging across the border..to bring us their drugs, rapists, and tjhe worst of their taco-making chiefs!
That's why!
goes on the attack directly* & unleashes a YUGE Twitter storm...or creates a distraction.
*While his obsessed with his staff being loyal to him, he hinmself shows no loyalty to thwem! For example, he's attacked and publicly humiliated Jeff Session on numerous occasion...even though Sessions was the first senator to endorse him, and Sessions has impeccable conservative credials.
*However he will never directly attack those he's afraid of (so far that's only two people-- Vladimir "The Impaler" Putin..and Stormy Daniels!!!)
He's 100% right. Compare 2018 to 2016/2017. In late 2016, right before the election, we were seeing 50-60,000 per month. After the election, and just after Trump was sworn in, that number plummeted to less than 20,000 by Spring of 2017 because those who want to sneak over the border were afraid Trump's administration might actually make life difficult for them. Turns out the open border leftist wackjobs in this country are pretty good at preventing the rest of the country from actually doing anything to protect our borders, so the numbers are climbing again. Hope you're happy. How many illegals will be staying at your house?
According to your chart, nearly every month in FY18 is higher than the corresponding month in FY15 when Obama was letting them walk right in. Trump got some 'splainin' to do.
It was already explained to you.
Maybe the fact that Trump doesn't have a lawyer to defend him against Mueller any longer is the reason for the panic.
ummm yes.. LOL
do you own a dictionary?
horde
/hôrd/
noun noun: horde , plural noun: hordes
It's throwing out a shiny object for the media to chase around for a few days as Mueller gets his first conviction and it is revealed the Trump is an official subject of the investigation.
Actually, since the wall IS Trump's obsession, it is the topic.
So you're a mind reader...quick what do I have planned for tomorrow at work?
Advancing hordes???
Here ya go John -
50,308 Stopped at Mexican Border Last Month, Up 203% From March '17
" (CNSNews.com) - More than fifty thousand people -- 50,308 -- were either apprehended or deemed inadmissible at the Southwest border last month, U.S. Customs and Border Protection said on Wednesday. It's the highest monthly total of the Trump presidency.
The 50,308 apprehended/inadmissibles in March is a 37 percent increase from the 36,695 counted in February, but a whopping 203 percent increase from March 2017's 16,588."
203% increase of Illegal Aliens???? I think that could/would be classified as a "horde" - ya think?
I just read 4.1 and don't see that.
Is there no hysterical bullshit you people won't believe? For people who pretend to be so tough you sure sound like a bunch of frightened sheep....baaaa-baaaaaaaaaaa-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Is there no hysterical bullshit you people won't believe?
Right backatcha. Have you looked at the level of bullshit on the front page? Do you use the same 'bullshit' litmus test for crap coming from the left? Until you do, no one will take you seriously, outside of your echo chamber.
pffffffttttt
Gee Spike, I don't remember you standing out by chiming in and calling BS in the seeds from the right. Does that mean we shouldn't take you seriously?
Since the Posse Comitatus Act is still in force, it would be a violation of the law.
Unless of course Trump sends in the Marines. Doubt the Marines would be very happy about being deployed to be unarmed fence watchers like the Texas National Guard.
How many think that CA will allow it's National Guard to be Federalized?
I'm not convinced AZ would either.
Texas is already receiving some federal funds for their National Guard that is on the border though nowhere near the $12+ million a month that it costs Texas.
As for supporting it. NO.
First because border crossings are WAY down. In 2016 a DHS report found that in the prior decade border crossings had gone down by 90%. The 'hordes teaming over the border' BS is a fearmongering fallacy.
Secondly, the Military are supposed to be trained to fight in an armed conflict. The troops on the border in Texas are UNARMED and acting in support positions. They shouldn't be expected to do the job of the CBP, who ARE trained to follow immigration laws.
Thirdly, the CBP are already experiencing a housing crisis in the more rural areas along the border. ADDING untrained troops will just exacerbate the problem.
Here is what's going on in Texas after spending 1.6 BILLION:
They'll just house the troops in tents.
The BPS is losing agents faster then they can hire new ones.
Thank you Joe Arpaio. /s
I've been to Tijuana in June. MUCHO CALIENTE!
Of course they could set up camps like they did @ 'the sand box' and kick on the generators to pump in AC but that would hardly be 'covert'.
They probably will set up tents like they did in the Sandbox. You house the troops a distance from where they are actually working, don't you? And they don't need to be covert. Probably better if they aren't.
Don't get me started on that BF.
It isn't about 'policy that actually secures the border', it's about funding the mandates that already exist [much like gun legislation] and dealing with the issue of turnover in the CBP.
In reality, this is just a deflection created by Trump.
What effect will our securing the border have on the need for protection in Mexico?
I think you might have misunderstood me BF....Here is an example of what I call, congress do nothing or congress damage''..
There is a group called the ''Shadow Wolves''...American Indians that patrol a large area of the Arizona/Mexico border. The act alone in some of the most dangerous parts of the border and their main objective is to get drug smugglers.
The have been around since the early 2000's...Yet they keep being transfered from one agency to another. I think that the last is that they are under Homeland Security. They are so good that they train other agencies including the US Military. They are so effective that the drug cartals have put a bounty on their heads....What does congress do beside transfering them to different agencies, they cut their funding. IMO, congress would fuck up a one car funeral.
Who is saying they are underfunded...got any sources.
Ask your production manager. Perhaps he got hoodwinked by a security corp.
If it is it is then y'all should think about who you are electing for Sheriff and perhaps hire some more deputies. Hell, I thought you Texicans enjoy open carrying ARs all over town...
During some of the wars, Hotels and, private homes were used to house military personnel with the promise the people would be reimbursed later, it never happened.
Well then all those troop transports are going to make some noise too.
They DO want to be covert so that those who want to cross don't just 'move on down the road' and cross elsewhere. It's like a local cop hiding to catch speeders. So far Texas troopers assigned to the border nail more drunk drivers than human traffickers or drug smugglers.
Anthony “Tony” Reardon the National President of the National Treasury Employees Union that represents CBP. Here's his Op-ed from The Hill:
They also include immigration courts and they are sorely underfunded and understaffed. ICE is infamous for 'prioritizing' pursuit and prosecution based on FUNDING limitations.
Anyone else you want to know about?
I defer to you because you were actually in the Sandbox. I never got anywhere near it.
www.tonation-nsn.gov/history-culture/
How 'bout looking at the "budget" that was just passed. He asked for $26.2B for the wall - he got $1.2B.
Yup, piggy pork wins again.
Got anything to support that statement?
Hey I didn't make the rules, the Governor of Texas did.
There is a simple alternative. Just build a wall.
The fact that you think that is a 'simple alternative' shows just how uninformed you are. Start educating yourself by looking up 'eminent domain'.
Hey I have an open mind. Let's hear your solution. Do you even have one? Or do you just want to prevent any kind of control over our borders?
On this issue, doubtful.
My first step would be to get y'all to recognize that this ISN'T the earth shattering issue that Trump pretends it is. It isn't even in the top ten of the issues we SHOULD be addressing, especially with our military.
I don't want to prevent any well thought out strategy to minimize illegal border crossings. I haven't heard any from you or Trump.
Why does it need to be? Why can't it simply be one of many important issues that needs addressing?
What makes you say it's not in the top ten? According to this poll from USA Today/Suffolk University (see question 7) Immigration and the Border is the #1 issue for prospective voters in the 2018 Congressional elections. Number ONE! (By the way, Russian election meddling came in dead last, in spite of CNN's 24/7 coverage of it)
Meanwhile, in this Gallup poll , it's the #2 issue, second only to dissatisfaction with with government (which is, frankly, kind of vague). All other issues aren't really even close. And I know it's off-topic, but again, Russia barely even registers.
As for our military, where would you like them deployed instead?
So you don't have any ideas. You will just lie in wait for others to propose them so you can declare them to be bad ideas (without actually supporting the claim). Nor do you offer any framework for what would constitute "any well thought out strategy." Here's another suggestion: Back in the 1950s, President Eisenhower's administration instituted " Operation Wetback ." It was phenomenally successful. How about we just bring back that solution? You can't say it didn't work.
Ask Trump. He's the one that want's to spend 50 billion on a wall that he promised that Mexico would pay for.
Since question #7 doesn't even mention 'Immigration and the Border' it's impossible for it to be 'Number ONE!'.
Actually it's the criteria was 'Immigration/illegal aliens'. Why misrepresent?
At their homes on the couch.
I'm not an elected official and therefore not required to come up with ideas to solve fabricated problems.
I'm NOT 'laying in wait', I have the pie in the sky expectation of our leadership to DO THEIR JOBS. Imagine that. As a US citizen I have an inherent right to support or criticize ideas posited by elected officials.
Huh?
Again, not my freaking job. I'm not the one that said 'Only I can fix it' or 'We're hiring only the best'.
Want a landscape designed or a Victory garden installed? Can I help your with a sunroom design? Need your property graded for proper rain runoff? Deck, terrace, pond, small out building, irrigation, aquaculture and/or greenhouse setup? I excel at all of those things and can give you a plethora of cogent alternatives that will work for your position on the planet and your budget.
What part of it didn't you understand, perhaps I can help.
Obtuse.
From what I have read, they have been going on for a couple of years. They are protests of the conditions in the countries south of Mexico's border. The Mexican government has dealt with them each time, just as they did this week.
As with all too much of Trump's babble, it's impossible to know whether he's fearmongering about these 'caravans' or if he's just uninterested in the context [as it is said he is about National Security] and is too uninformed to know that he is uninformed. Either way, he is following Trump TV's lead [Fox] and dangling a shinny object to distract his base.
Holy smokes; try just a little. It's in the answer , not the question. Wow!
Efficiency in communication. But feel free to detail how you think it materially changed the point I was making.
Actually, one of the CHOICES is 'Immigration/Border Security' and it is 'Number ONE!' by a margin of 4. How it is worded indicates that it isn't stating 'Immigration AND Border Security', and the wording of the CHOICE that came in a close 2nd is 'Gun Control/2nd Amendment' supports that posit.
Oh I'm sure that misrepresenting the criteria efficiently communicated the point you wanted to make just fine.
1) Of course it's Constitutional. In what universe would it be unconstitutional for the national military to guard the national border? That's their primary function: National Defense. We've just spent so many years deploying them to foreign countries that people seem to have forgotten that basic concept.
2) I'd rather see us just build a wall. As expensive as that would be, it has to be cheaper than supporting thousands of troops indefinitely. But since Congress won't pay for a wall, he has little choice. After all, it's the duty of the Commander in Chief to defend the country, including its borders.
What I don't understand is why anyone would object. Democrats keep saying the wall is a waste of money and we can do better with technology and manpower. Well, here's your technology and manpower, so what're you bitchin about?
They're simply against it because Trump is for it.
Trump could come out in favor of eating your vegetables and they would find a way to call it "fascist" or "racist."
You mean like the right did over Michelle's healthy lunches?
Gawd Lenny - are you thinking of your bootcamp meals again?
There's a difference between saying you should eat your vegetables and forcing you to eat them. Having said that, I never really had a problem with her lunch program except for the naive expectation that kids would eat the food.
Quiz time!
Which president stopped illegal immigration? Illegals were still pouring across the borders in huge numbers when this president took over. He took a hard line on immigration, deported illegals in droves, at a far greater pace than ever before. He basically ended illegal immigration during his term with more illegals leaving than coming in by the time he was through.
Name that prez! You're are allowed to phone a friend if you're unsure...
Barack "the Deporter and Chief" Obama?
Dingdingdingdingdingggg. Congratulations on nailing the first correct response, Galen! (deleted) Author called off topic {SP}
Ewwww, I'll pass on that.
Humor is against the COC now too I guess. Sad...
Well, humor is in the eye of the beholder....could be you're not as funny as you think.
Dwight David Eisenhower.
Off topic. Redacted - PRF
Redacted - PRF
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Redacted. Off Topic - PRF
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They were either flagged comments, or responses to the flagged (and removed) comments. Honestly, I should probably remove another six comments off the thread, but I'm taking a break for the moment.
However, I certainly don't object if anybody would like a second pair of moderator eyes. For the moment, I'm gonna step away and play some Far Cry 5 lol.
So, did he sneak back in everytime he was deported? Trying to figure out how this is part of the article at hand.
Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
It's great that America has this Constitutional protection for its sovereignty and citizens - but according to the rest of the world, including some NT members, that protection is not permitted to Israel.
Deploying large numbers of troops to stretch out along a border nearly 2000 miles long, simply to catch illegal aliens, sounds like a waste of time and money. I think a sophisticated use of drones and buried sensors, coupled with small groups of border agents able to move quickly to a problem area, makes more sense.
If he wants to use troops, then declare the state of California in rebellion against federal immigration law and send troops in to arrest governor moonbeam and his gang for obstruction of justice. /s
I love the first paragraph, but esp I like the /s on the second one.
Trump will not be sending the military (federal) to the border. It's going to be the National Guard and they will be in the same postion as when Brush and Obama sent them...
So, why all the stink about it?
Oh wait.....we know.....go ahead, Kav, you can say it.....
Say what Spike? What assumption are you making. They always make you look like an ass when you do that.
BTW what stink am I making about it..I guess facts and questions to you is a stink...
I know how hard it is for you to say you were wrong.......in a whiole bunch of your earlier posts. The Presdient is doing nothing different than Prwesdients Bush and Obama. But earlier, you assumed it was Federal Troops, in fact you said it over and over, though I'll refrain from calling you an ass, becuase I consider you a friend.
It's not hard for me at all if I was incorrect, Spike. You may want to re read my comments. I quote what I thought would be the problem if Trump tried to station federal troops on the border. And yes, I assume that he was talking about federal troops which many others on the thread assumed as well. When he clairfied that it would be NG, I also posted that link.
I pointed out on a couple of occassion that both Bush II and Obama stationed NG troops on the border.
I don't know what your problem is, since I think that you understand English. Perhaps your such a partisan that your blind to anything that doesn't fit your agenda.
As for friendship, I would think that friend wouldn't throw insults at another friend..I guess I was wrong on that count.
So, whatever your problem is, it's yours not mine.
Deal with it.
I will say this in defense of sending troops to the border. As somebody who was actually deployed on the border to counter cartels carving smuggling routes out of rancher's property, I can attest to the need for an actual military presence on the border. There has been a literal war fought on the border off and on for like 25ish years now.
However, they don't need to be hassling normal people who are just looking for a better life the same as pretty much all of our ancestors were when they came here (indigenous people's notwithstanding unfortunately). The difference between cartel soldiers and people just looking for their chance at the American dream is pretty vast however and obvious to any experienced guard or soldier.
It may have been said in other comments. I'm not reading through them all. The President can't order military to the boarder without first somehow suspending Posse Comitatus Act. That would take and an act of Congress. The PCA is expressly designed to limit the powers of the feds use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the US. As far as using the National Guard, it's been done - but it has limited scope and will cost additional spending appropriations if it were to last longer than a couple of months.
George W Bush had Operation Jump Start from June 2006 to July 2008. He deployed 6000 NG troops to the border of CA, AZ, NM and TX at the tune of $1.2B. They seized 9.4% of weed found coming across into the US from Mexico during that period. The assisted in 11.7% of total apprehensions on the border also during that period.
Barak Obama used 1,200 NG troups in 2010 under Operation Phalanx. This was extended past the initial period that ended June 30 2011, but was scaled back to to aerial surveillance in 2012. This cost tax payers $110M in the first year. They were responsible for 5.9% of the total apprehensions & 2.6% of all marijuana seized on the Southwest land border in the first 11 months.
Of course he can, Just like Presidents Bush and Obama did. You don't know what you are talking about. You should go back and read the comments. There is a lot of good information that you can learn from.
What did Mexico do with all that money Obama gave them to secure THEIR Southern Boarder?
But yet the Whining Liberals wont fund crap to secure ours.
Hmmmmmm
Please do elaborate with supporting data (and not a link to some rightwing pukefunnel).
Here's a snapshot of the dangerous invaders from Central America heading to the U.S. border. I don't think the NG or even regular army troops will be enough to stop these "baaaaaad hombres."
Every rightwing patriot needs to get down to our southern border and protect us or we're DOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!