WHEN YOU'RE FIGHTING THUGS, BE READY FOR THEM TO FIGHT LIKE THUGS
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
WHEN YOU'RE FIGHTING THUGS, BE READY FOR THEM TO FIGHT LIKE THUGS
31.05.18 18:29
Author: noreply@blogger.com (Steve M.)
Here's a quote from Jonathan Swan's latest Axios piece, which tells us that President Trump repeatedly pressured Jeff Sessions to reverse his recusal in the Russia investigation, and also pressed him to investigate Hillary Clinton:
“It’s not just payback; it’s punishment. It’s never enough to win. There’s never too much blood. There’s never too many guts on the floor. That’s his mentality. If you give him a paper cut he'll never forget that paper cut.”
— Source who talks frequently to Trump
Swan also writes:
Much of [Trump's] desire for investigating Clinton and Barack Obama comes from a desire for retribution, sources who have discussed the matter with Trump told me.
It's not just Trump -- the entire conservative movement feels exactly the same way. That's why Trump is the most beloved figure on the right since Reagan -- because he wants to cause liberals intense pain, just like conservative voters (and their heroes in the media).
Which brings me to Samantha Bee. If you didn't watch the sketch from last night's show in which she attacked the administration's immigration policies, it's a shame -- it was a solid, smart piece of work. And then we came to the end:
“Ivanka Trump, who works at the White House, chose to post the second most oblivious tweet we’ve seen this week,” Bee said. “You know, Ivanka, that’s a beautiful photo of you and your child, but let me just say, one mother to another, do something about your dad’s immigration practices, you feckless c*nt!”
“He listens to you,” she added. “Put on something tight and low-cut and tell your father to fucking stop it. Tell him it was an Obama thing and see how it goes, okay?”
You're all going to slam me for saying this, but Jeet Heer has a point:
Samantha Bee picked the worst moment to insult Ivanka Trump....
Bee’s comments would be provocative at the best of times, but were especially incendiary given that actress Roseanne Barr recently lost her sitcom after sending out a racist tweet....
By insulting Ivanka Trump at a moment when the political right was looking for tit-for-tat retaliation, regardless of whether the joke would have been productive or appropriate under any circumstances, Bee made the wrong joke at the wrong time.
What Barr tweeted was incontrovertibly racist, and it was appropriate that she was fired. By contrast, "cunt" in the context of Bee's monologue was just a vulgarism, from one woman to another. It's a vulgarism that appears on numerous Trump-related items. It's a word Trump White House guest Ted Nugent used years ago in reference to Hillary Clinton. It's a word that, in acronym form, was the name of an anti-Clinton organization formed by Trump pal Roger Stone during the 2008 campaign. It's a word Trump himself used in reference to former deputy attorney general Sally Yates, according to Michael Wolff's Fire and Fury.
And yet it was clear that this was coming, because within hours of the cancellation of Roseanne Barr's show, the right was looking for a non-conservative scalp. Attention was first focused on Bill Maher, who once joked that Trump seemed to have descended from an orangutan. The attack on Maher didn't work -- comparing white people to non-human primates is clearly not historically linked to bigotry. But it was obvious that the right wanted blood, and would use all of its narrative-shaping resources to demonize the first left-leaning comic who walked into the ambush.
I'm not saying that progressive comics should curb their anger. I'm saying that this was a strong, intelligent seven-minute piece that nevertheless would have given the right no opening -- but then it wrapped up with the word "cunt" (and a joke about Trump's sexual interest in his daughter, which for some reason right-wingers aren't attacking -- perhaps because they know it's on point?).
It was predictable that Bee would be the target if she used this word in this way at this time, and it might have made sense fore her to weigh the value of keeping her show on the air for the foreseeable future against the possibility -- no, the likelihood -- that this one naughty-word joke could sink her entire career. Was that one joke worth the risk? And wasn't the risk foreseeable?
I'm not saying, "Liberals, censor yourselves." I'm saying, "Liberals, don't give the bastards an opening."
Tags
Who is online
105 visitors
Bee should have saved that line for another time.
I do find it amazing though that this fact escapes a lot of right wingers -
Conservatives use that word all that time but now it's offensive?
They apparently are offended by the "C" word, if Sam Bee had just called her a "feckless pussy" they wouldn't have been so irate seeing as how their President expressed how much he likes to grab them. Sure, there's no actual difference between those words, but to an ignorant fornicating baboon Trump supporter it just sounds worse. That and the fact that they're hopeless hypocrites.
True enough but she was drawing from a long established style of shock comedy but this time, for that particular bit, her timing was off a smidgen.
.
A lot of people apply an extra bit of objection to the word "cunt", as if if "bitch" is not strong enough, then you go to the c word.
I'm not sure I go along with that , but I'm sure some people do.
For example, you can say "bitch" on tv now, even the network shows, but I don't think you can say "cunt". I havent heard it. It is a word that doesnt even show up in Hollywood movies very often.
Maybe. I'm not saying it wasn't racist, just that such a judgment is not "incontrovertible." It's not at all clear that she even knew Valerie Jarrett has African ancestry, and there is actually some indication today that she, in fact, didn't know.
Seems like an easy mistake to make. Apparently Roseanne assumed she was middle eastern. Hence, the Muslim Brotherhood reference.
Actually Roseanne obviously thought Jarrett is half middle eastern and half black.
Just give it up already with the defending Roseanne crap. The lady is mentally ill and it comes out in bizarre conspiracies and bigotry.
Based on what? Give me a reason that convinces me. "It's obvious" is the kind of argument I'd expect from Donald Trump.
I'm not interested in defending her. I've never been much of a fan of her stuff. I don't hate her, but I never really watched the show either. Maybe a couple of episodes in what, 9 years? I'm just not part of the lynch mob that assumes the worst in people and wants to punish them as hard and fast as possible.
To the best of your knowledge is "planet of the apes" a phrase that is used in connection to people of middle eastern heritage? I havent heard that one yet.
So she's just your average Trump supporter then.
It's a vulgarism based on sex, which is not something Ivanka can do anything about. That makes it misogynistic. The Left continually signals that it is just fine with misogyny and racism when directed at conservatives, all the while patting themselves on the back for their superior enlightenment and concern for people's feelings. PC isn't a tactic we're told. It's just good manners. It's a stunning hypocrisy. And it's not ok just because it came from a woman.
And anyway, it's bad comedy. There's nothing funny there. It's just name-calling. Nothing to be proud of and nothing that warrants defending.
It's also pretty crappy to then continue with the suggestion that she sexually seduce her father. Her father may have made some provocative comments that inspire such jokes, but that's not Ivanka's fault, is it?
And all of this in response to the very non-political move of posting a picture of herself and her little boy on social media. Such an act does not deserve such a toxic response.
So your posit is that SB is self loathing?
Using your "logic", calling someone an asshole would be a form of bigotry because everybody has one.
If you like, but then I'm not trying to define "self-loathing." Attacking someone based on their race or sex is shitty no matter who it comes from. A lot of people who normally claim to be against those things will engage in it. Why? Maybe because it happens so much in the culture or because they understand that it will hurt regardless of the source.
Hey, if you want to defend name-calling, by all means, keep going.
Well an example of 'self loathing" would a woman who is a misogynist.
I don't really see a need for that particular word at all. I don't think it was helpful at all. It was meant to inject a bit of harsh humor into her statement. The statement had merit on its own, and the vulgarity was not especially humorous.
Good for her. Bee has found her niche. Pandering to left wing anger/angst and has made a fine career out of it. They eat that shit with a spoon and she cashes the checks. The American dream if you will.
That said she could head back to Canada any time and she wouldn't be missed ..... except i suppose by a few left wing haters who like usual, will be well represented here on NT.
It typifies what the left is all about. Out of ideas with no plan and nary a clue. They desperately try to compensate by being vulgar and mean spirited. It shows the level of, or should I say a lack of, intelligence and understanding the mood of the electorate. As a group they seem to be vindictive, angry and unhappy, acting out in all kinds of ways. And they wonder why they can't win elections.
Just fighting fire with fire.....
Yes because as we all know ...... two wrongs make a right.
sometimes it does
I'm not a Christian so I don't believe in that whole turn the other cheek thingy. But from what I've seen of the "good, moral Christians" on this site, neither do they.
You all think you're a shining example for us to follow....maybe that's just what I've decided to do.
Nope, not for me. Trying to fix a previous wrong by intentionally performing another one makes zero moral sense to me.
Thats not to say it never happens. No one is perfect but one can certainly try.
Well, we can't all be so godly and self-righteous as you.
Some of us just don't want to be godly and self-righteous. At least we're more honest with the world and ourselves
Your words not mine. Just can't help yourself can you?
Your understanding of who i am is obtuse at best but as shown over and over again here on NT.
No one tells you anything.
Especially you
Your loss ....
So where are the Barr defenders to defend Bee's free speech?
Not me, never did. Barr has always been an ass.
Now, please give us your rationalization of how what Bee is doing is somehow different.
We already have several. You probably should add yours.
I do not believe it is different. If TBS fires her then she is facing the consequences of her chosen words. If she does not get fired then that is TBS's decision. I believe that the employer has that right. ABC cut the cord.
I simply want to see the people that vehemently defended Rosanne's free speech to defend Bee as vehemently or accept the fact that they are hypocrites.
We agree.
I didn't see much defending of Barr but i'm sure some extremists did as they do tend to defend extremist behavior. Lucky for us they are still the minority, on both sides.
A very loud and vocal minority to be sure but still just a simple minority.
da fuck they didn't .....
Clearly you have never read her twitter feed. People were tripping over themselves defending her.
There was some on here that were all over it on a previous JR seed. Talking about her right to "free speech" & her 1st Amendment rights and ABC shouldn't have fired her blah blah blah - and I pointed out nothing to do with 1st Amendment - it was a business protecting itself from bad publicity & they served her consequences by firing her. I was then insulted about my intelligence.
For me the same applies to Bee - she is free to say it, but cannot bitch if TBS cans her - protecting their bottom line..
I had to remind one particular NT'er (who I consider a friend), that ABC had the right to fire Roseanne for her racist remarks because it didn't fall under free speech.
I will also say that if TBS decides to fire Samantha Bee, they are well within their rights, also.
I'm not trying defend Sam B, I am pointing out that many other women have been called that name by conservatives but there was no outrage about it.
I know exactly what you are saying - but for some many it falls to the "if I like the person you can't call them derogatory names, but if I don't anything goes". I point this out & get told I am asking a "silly" question (to me that sounds like a dismissive reply as I am a woman and my questions are "silly").
Then there are the ones saying they never saw anyone defend Rosanne when they were on JR's seed earlier in the week doing just that. Craziness.
We get dismissed a lot around here because we're progressive women
Yep, like i said, we agree.
And I thought we were in the 21st century. Oh well - it all comes down to - don't like my questions cuz they make you uncomfortable - bite me.... (not directed at you TG).
Sorry, didn't mean to ramble, but you know us women - gotta jabber on...... LOL
And I am glad we agree on this.
Sure, like many are tripping over themselves defending Bee's comments.
ANYONE doing so should be ashamed of themselves for giving any sort of support to hate speech like that.
But they won't be because most of them have their heads planted squarely and deeply up their own ass.
Yeah...that one cracks me up. I rarely talk anymore because it seems I'm surrounded by men constantly and all they do is
Not at all. It is nice to agree on something once in awhile.
Honestly, i wish it happened more often here but this place is what it is.
Agreement is a rare commodity unfortunately.
Some links for you for That Which Must Not be Named:
https://thenewstalkers.com/community/discussion/40076/roseanne-barr-apologizes-for-racist-planet-of-the-apes-tweet-about-obama-adviser#cm785740 this one especially highlights an NT'er defending Roseanne
I know that's a lot to look at, but it's a pretty good start.
I was hoping for a more non-confrontational forum, but people are what they are. Nice to know we don't always have to be at each other's throats.
You do realize that they will simply say that those posts were not defending Rosanne, but free speech.
You must not get out much.
Gah! It only takes me to the page, not the specific comment.
They can say that but it doesn't make it true
I'm sorry., Sandy, one of these days I'll figure out how to use a computer.
Maybe the page isn't loading properly, because I've gone to linked comments before with no problem, and the comment numbers are clearly in your links.
I hear ya.......
Me to but it is, what it is .... life goes on.
Spot on, Sparty On.
I haven't seen anyone on NT defend what Barr said.
I don't know about defending her, but I think cancelling her show was an extreme response. I can't help but wonder if that was more about politics than anything else. I wouldn't want Sam Bee's show cancelled either. I just hope less people will watch the show because she long ago transitioned from "being funny" to just "being mean."
It's not a free speech, issue.
Check out the links Trout posted & it will take you right to the posts that indeed called it free speech and a First Amendment issue.
Each company reacts in their best interests, and employees should be aware that they have know their words and actions have consequences - one of which may be dismissal. I leave it in the hand of the companies it will affect.
What Roseanne Barr did crossed a long ago established line of political propaganda spilling itself into the hearts and minds of generations of children and adults; that a racial group can be publicly mocked as genetically inferior. It was a lie prior and it is a worse lie to drive forward now! A television network does not have to accept any hired performer who holds this as a normal outlook about a racial group.
Now what Samantha Bee has done is wade into the deep-end of sexist insults - being a woman offending other women, and apparently a 'debate' yet rages over how much damage is done or is being done to women when the "C" word is publicly uttered.
I really don't give a crap what ignorant people on the internet say. It's not a free speech issue.
I get the feeling she may not have known what she was doing when she did it. Otherwise, why do it, right? Have you seen Valerie Jarrett? She doesn't look all that black. I think Roseanne thought she was insulting an Iranian. Not that that makes it all ok, but insulting an African American may not have been in her mind.
I don't think that's a debate people get to have. Should I tell black people they shouldn't be bothered by ape references? I don't think so. Likewise, I'm not going to tell women that the c-word shouldn't bother them. It bothers them, so I'm not going to say it.
Ms. Barr is no shrinking violet to joke telling or controversy. Hell, I did not watch Roseanne and on the chance occasions of a show 'drive-by' in the 80's - 90's, she could crack me up!
If she is going to mock somebody she at least needs to know what will score the laughs. Thus, you research your comedic 'marks' and your audience! No this was no folly! Roseanne has done this before. If she can not resist the urge to 'rip one,' then the larger question is this: What do you do when she does it AGAIN?
As far as we know, there may have been a clause in her ABC contract warning her about gallows humor (without a filter). Keep in mind, the network wanted her to have that job, so she could reach an area of the country they wanted to affect. Ms. Barr wanted the cash for herself and whatever future she planned. Yet, she could not resist digging it all for a lousy, worthless, laugh. She risked losing
herABC, it's black audience, for what? FOR WHAT?!Er' what does that even mean? Ms. Jarrett looks like she. . . look. Ms. Jarrett is not a caricature or a concept 'piece.'
Those "ape references" are considerably buried in a sunken cavern in America's history with 'tons' of concrete layered on top of them! When Roseanne Barr twice brings her jack hammer in an effort to go viral with the term "ape" against black people one of two things needs to occur:
Explain to me the difference between denigrating women with the word "cunt", "bitch", "whore", "hag", "witch" or "slut".
And why was it ok to call Hillary a "cunt"?
Because she is a public figure who was and is a lying, corrupt, POS, awful, terrible, and horrible excuse of a person.
And Chelsea is most likely the product of Hillary and Webb Hubbell, the resemblance is remarkable.
But why pick a on nice person like Ivanka?
CoC "BF"
So based on YOUR standards, Ivanka qualifies for the exact same characterization.
This is an example of why social media will some day be obsolete, in my opinion. Cruel. Reckless. Without any redeemable value.
here's your answer, Veronica
By contrast, "cunt" in the context of Bee's monologue was just a vulgaris
"We have to destroy the town in order to save it"
Like when it was used about Hillary? Were you upset by that?
When and where was it used? Certainly not on any TV channel I know of. Maybe on some forum somewhere.
Were you upset by that?
It's out of line.
But I don't remember a corporation paying anyone to call her that on national TV, do you?
If this was just private citizen Samantha Bee taking time off from fighting to make sure her kids don't have to attend a public school with poor minorities to call Ivanka that on her blog it'd just be tasteless act, like the random pics John posts. But she's not just the typical wealthy Manhattanite liberal who doesn't want her kids dealing with minorities, she's being paid by a billion dollar corporation to represent it on national tv.
open your fucking eyes! Look up thread and see the photos posted!
This dumb act is getting tiresome
It appears to be all there is in that particular case.
But it was said - that is my point. Unless you are upset when it is used for all (even those you do not like) it makes you a hypocrite.
RB called Hillary a c*nt in 2016. Absolutely no outrage at all from the right wing.
The C word started with Obama's first run. That is when the nastiness started towards women coming from the liberal side. No women had ever been attacked by vicious sexist language more than Sarah Palin and her daughters. Bill Maher got away with it and they will continue to get away with it.
Nah its been around for a long time. Bagging on first ladies is nothing new. I remember some on the left saying they thought Barbara Bush looked like George Washington. One other example, Nancy Reagan was absolutely hammered by the media in comparison to the Obama's.
Nope, the lefts hands are very dirty in this regard no matter how one tries to spin otherwise.
And no matter what they do, they can't get rid of the indelible stains.
I think she is just jealous and why wouldn't she be?
Not many women look like Ivanka. In fairness to her panting dad, she is close to a 10.
Samantha B is a nice looking chick in her own right.
Ivanka is beautiful. And I think she's highly intelligent. She just needs to cut the apron strings from Daddy and get out on her own
If she is, she does a good job of playing dumb. For example, not knowing what is meant when she's told she's "complicit".
Intentionally obtuse, perhaps?
You mean like this?
Or this?
What are they trying to say?
Skirting the CoC "BF"
That Sarah Palin is a horrible person. Big deal. Are they wrong?
Let's not count the many times trumpy supporters called Hillary a cunt....or the many times we've heard that same word tossed at any progressive woman.
Nobody is innocent in this but this tit for tat thing is getting ridiculous. Why don't all of us admit that we have said horrible things to each other and about public figures. Let's have a little honesty for once instead of all these goddamn, fucking LIES!
Come back.....Tessylo…..COME BACK !
Windy days can be a bitch !
Why ?
Skirting the CoC [ph]
Barr calls a "Women" an "Ape", gets canned !
Bee calls a "Women" a "Cunt". HERO, now with an "Award" !
Ain't the life of the "Left" Grand ?
I'm turnin' "Left". I can say ANY Fucking THING I WANT now !
And Sally Field doubled down by saying that Bee didn't go far enough.
The Flying Nun has an Oooops moment. That's what they'll say anyway.
They're imploding. They only have two choices and they've probably run out of tears, so they do what they know how to do best. It's in their genes.
Their lead in the polls has dwindled from a 15 point lead in December to ZERO now and you know they should have learned after Hillary that 15 point lead was probably incorrect anyway, but now that it is ZERO, it's hard to accept it, but it is probably 15 point in the other direction.
Expect a lot more from them until the 2018 elections are over and invest in Pfizer, Forest and Lilly while the stock price is still somewhat low.
The more the numbnutz speak and are praised, the better Trump and others look for re-election.
Funny…..the Left STILL has no idea why they lost.
Or maybe it was "Sybil".
Alter EGOS !
Get paid for calling women a C on a scripted national tv program. What a gig!
No kidding.
Get paid for comparing black people to apes on a scripted national tv program. What a gig!
who did that?
You're kidding right?
are your referring to Barr? not aware that twitter is a scripted tv show....
Mr Frost, my friend, Barr tweeted that. You do know she said she has 7 different personalities, kind of like Sybil. I guess that was her version of Al Sharpton's personality.
Bazinga!
Barr did that on a personal tweet....not the friggin show.
Spreading "FAKE NEWS" too ?
Given Barr's tweets, it looks like she has more than 7, to be honest. In one she is apologizing, in another she is screaming that it was the right thing to say and every degree between the two. I used to watch her show, "way back when", and I liked it, it was good. I just had no idea what her views were. This isn't the first time she has made racist comments, not by a long shot. The real losers in this mess are the 200 people that took a chance to try and support a "reboot" of her show and are now out of jobs.
Al Sharpton....SMH... I just wish he would do ONE thing....
Stop talking... It's bad enough that we have to put up with his antics, but to hear him spit out sentence fragments and ridiculous claims....he just needs to stop.
WTF? Isn't that what the base loves about Trump? We are getting whiplash from your spinning! Is it one of those 'only my side can do it' moments?
Oh, its really special seeing all the mansplaining (and consplaining) about what women consider misogyny. Spare us.
I spin NOTHING !
That's what drew my wife into wanting to marry me. I'm UP FRONT ! No PANSY excuses.
I'm just going with the lefty flow of "Speaking ones mind" with no faults being perceived or chastised, when I Fuck Someone with my words.
The "Left" has that down pat. Why not join the side that can Say "what-ever-the-fuck-they-want" with no reparations demanded. They even get awards. I luv it !
I'm IN !
One of the things we hear from Trump defenders and supporters is how much they hate pc and love it when Trump is non-pc. And now you've got the vapors about Sam Bee saying cunt, while the pussygrabber in chief reigns. EXPLAIN THE SPIN. Do you hate pc or like pc?
*note- this use of a naughty word has nothing to do with RACISM. And women don't need to hear why Trump supporters think we we should feel insulted by Sam Bee.
Just noted a few irregular things I noticed. My real "Vapors" are still enclosed in my Vicks VapoRub jar.
Paranoia?
A tasteless classless woman made a racist tweet .. a tasteless classless woman attack another woman for being a so called "cunt".... tasteless classless individuals are a dime a dozen...
I see NO one defending Rosanne … I think this blog doth protest too much in defense of an indefensible attack?
I'll grant you that Bee should never have used that word, it really was tasteless, even coming from a woman aimed at a woman. Vulgar, insensitive, crude, rude....yep, all of that, but it wasn't a racist comment. That's what separates Bee's comment with Bar's. Then there is some considerable hypocrisy coming from our WH.
Did the WH immediately call for Bar the be fired and her show canceled? No. In fact, trump has, (to date), made no comment at all with regards to her blatantly racist statement.
Bee's statement, while crude and rude, had the WH all over it and calling for Bee to be fired and her show canceled IMMEDIATELY.
......
So why is Bar getting a pass from trump, and Bee is not?
Donny is supposed to represent ALL of us, not just his base. He either should have slammed Bee and Bar, or said nothing at all about either of them.
Got NO answers for you regarding the current President, as he is not someone that I hang on his every word - I already have a severe head shaking problem since election night - I do not desire to make it worse!
.. my comment was not about anyone else, it was my view of the statement made in the seed, that is in defense of B's comments regarding Ivanka and a photo of her son... and that in someway the right was looking for someone to retaliate on... Poor Samantha Bee is being victimized type sentiment...
Long before today I thought Rosanne was offensive - and even on the Daily Show I never found Bee funny … add to my list Kathy Griffin - TA DA a trifecta of classless!
The comment from Barr wasn't directed at the White House or anyone in it. Bee's comment was directed at the President's daughter. Of course he's going to respond! It has nothing to do with him being president.
Maybe not here, but on her twitter feed there were a LOT of people defending her... In fact Bar issued a tweet asking people to stop defending her.
Yeah okay .. glad someone keeps up with trivial BS … domestic politics/policy at its finest?
I saw them here yesterday defending her right to free speech
I like Samantha Bee a lot, but she is flat wrong to call Ivanka a cunt. Cunts are powerful, beautiful, nurturing and honest.
Well, that clarifies what Ms. Field said. And I say she is right on
A co-worker just sent me that - I burst out laughing.
People get caught up in words so much. A word is a word. (I know I will take a bashing from both sides on my stance).