A Trump official reportedly estimated 30,000 migrant kids could be separated from their families by August
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
As many as 30,000 migrant children could be separated from their families and held in detention centers by the end of the summer , an unnamed senior Trump administration official told The Washington Examiner for a report published Monday.
The source estimated the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has been taking about 250 kids daily in recent days — a significantly higher tally than has been previously reported — and calculated that the total could reach 30,000 by August. As of Friday, the Examiner's source said, HHS already has 11,500 of these children detained.
The family separations are not required by law, as President Trump has claimed, and were instituted by his administration as an immigration deterrent. Some of the families affected have not crossed the border illegally but rather are following legal procedure to seek asylum. The Obama administration, which deported more people than any previous presidency, separated a few families after illegal border crossings, but more often it placed them, intact, in detention camps or released them to await their court dates.
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When this happens, the tent camps that will be needed to contain all these children will be referred to as "Trump camps", the modern US version of "concentration camps".
Trump is so beholden to his "base" that he has little choice but to double down on treating children poorly just because they are brown.
Who believes we would be confiscating white Canadian children like this if the issue was on the northern border? No one.
I believe if you cross the Canadian border illegally you will go to jail.
And this is from a named source not speculation or what ifs.
Wait a minute, you mean to tell me that if you attempt to illegally cross into Canada they will arrest and detain you? Put you into a detention camp? Those bastards... where are those on the righteous Left who should be protesting this evil and amoral process... /s
C'mon Snuffy - they should use the Mexican penalties for violating immigration laws -
"‐ The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?
‐ If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam, and prove they can provide their own health care.
‐ Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal-alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).
‐ Law-enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal-alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration-enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.
‐ Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens."
I think you go to jail. No special camps with video games, cable T.V., video games....I'm not sure I am not a snowflake that was going to leave the country because Trump became President so I never researched my options.
How would you like us to treat them? Got a free room or two at your house? Wouldn't the best thing be to send them home? How about we point em toward Mexico and give em a gentle kick in the butt so they get the idea?
Well for starters, under U.S. law you're innocent until proven guilty.
How many of these kids have actually been proven guilty?
I'm surprised Tacos-- you had me fooled. Here all along I had the impression you were a pro "law and order" kinda guy...
And I also had the impression that you were a supporter of "family values".
(How is taking innocent screaming kids away from their mommies enhancing the family???)
None. They aren't being charged with anything. The adults are.
I am. What does that have to do with the kids? They're considered "unattended minors." Should we just cut them loose to be preyed upon by gangs and traffickers? We hold onto them and find them a safe place to stay. What's wrong with that?
I am, so I'll ask the question again. What would like to see us do? The parent has committed a crime. Should we ignore it? Or, if we do arrest her, should we then send the child to jail to be with mommy? You have to pick one or settle on the procedure we have now.
There he goes again, completely off the rails of logical reasoning, making use of loaded and emotional words in trying to make untrue statements legitimate. The problem some seem to have is that the Trump administration is now enforcing already existing law. Tell us, JR, what should be done about these people who drag their kids with them. Should they stay with their illegal immigrant parents? It's the Democrats and the former administration who is responsible for the influx of asylum seeking immigrants. If you respond to this, please refrain from the usual personal attack/putdown.
Trump made another idiotic comment on twitter this morning
Children are being used by some of the worst criminals on earth as a means to enter our country. Has anyone been looking at the Crime taking place south of the border. It is historic, with some countries the most dangerous places in the world. Not going to happen in the U.S.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 18, 2018
It is OBVIOUS that Trump's interest in this issue is almost entirely political. His hopes for future political success are totally linked to the largest possible turnout among the deplorables. He thinks the way to get that turnout is to double and triple down on the idea of "the wall". The migrant kids are hostages or pawns in trump's desire to get the wall funded.
Most Americans are against "the wall". So why is Trump holding these children as hostage in his effort to force funding for a wall that most Americans do not want? Because his deplorables believe they do want it. So these children are made to suffer in order to please 35% of the country. It is disgraceful.
Most Americans continue to oppose U.S. border wall | …
More Americans continue to oppose than favor building a wall along the entire U.S. border with Mexico, and 70% think the U.S. would ultimately pay for it.
Majority of Americans against Trump's wall and do not ...
Majority of Americans against Trump's wall and do not believe ... indicates 70 per cent of Americans believe they will eventually be on the hook for the wall, ...
Majority of Americans oppose funding Trump’s border …
But as the astounding $1 billion-per-every-62 miles price tag of Trump’s vision buts up against the reality that the Mexican government will not defray construction costs, it’s increasingly becoming evident that Americans do not want it.
Americans against the wall ?? - alipac.us
Oct 25, 2006 · Americans against the wall?? Who are these people participating in this survey? (CNN) -- Although a majority of Americans support increasing the number of Border Patrol agents along the U.S.-Mexico border, most do not support building a 700-mile fence along the border, according to a CNN poll released Wednesday.
Poll Finds Most Americans Oppose Wall on U.S.-Mexico ...
Aug 25, 2016 · A majority of Americans oppose the construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border and express views sympathetic to undocumented immigrants, according to a new Pew Research Center report released on Thursday.
Why is Trump speaking out of all sides of his mouth about this issue?
Because he knows it is WRONG, but he also knows that his political future depends on his continuing appeal to nationalists and racists. He just wants to bamboozle as many people as he can and you folks eagerly jump to the head of the line.
The polls never accounted for the EC screwing us all over.
What's wrong with a wall? I bet you have one around your property. I'll bet you have one around your bed. I bet it works, too.
So what's your solution? Let everybody in who wants to come in? Is there a maximum population for America that's a wise number? How many poor people do you think our economy can absorb every year?
Do you even consider the ramifications of unfettered migration or do you just want to feel good about yourself?
OMG John you and your polls. When will you learn they don't mean shit? Did you get these from the same source as all the ones you posted about how bad Trump would lose the election?
They were still wrong, and the EC did EXACTLY what it was supposed to do. It prevented a geographical dense conglomeration of moonbats that elected and CONTINUE to re-elect the likes of Maxine Waters from deciding the president for the entire country.
It turns out the Trump regime has been plotting since Feb 2017 to hold brown children hostage in order to discourage refugees from coming here:
The agency asylum chief???? Sorry - Obama appointee.
Nice try at deflection.
Yet it's a new policy under Trump and apparently one the Trump administration has been plotting for quite some time.
By the way crying toddlers is great PR for your party.
So you are saying President Trumps administration gives Arabic, African and European immigrants a pass if they cross the border illegally?
Have proof?
Try reading the link - you might actually find something to add to your knowledge base.
I like how Melania's immigration attorney noted that Trump's policy is "reminiscent of detention centers of Nazi Germany, of the slave trade."
David Webb put him in his place for that idiotic statement too !
Except that the immigration attorney was right - this really is reminiscent of Nazi Germany or at least the benighted US policies during the Nazi era.......all the more so because we have a racist and xenophobic President today.
Visit Auschwitz I ….. II ...…. AND III...….just ONE TIME. I wonder if this Attorney has.
Maybe he would sound more viable if he referenced the "democrats" Japanese internment camps here in the U.S..
I'm sure he's aware of Auschwitz and is well aware that these refugees are fleeing similar kinds of violence. He also seems aware that Trump's refugee policies are just as foolish as those during the 1930s and 1940s when we sent refugees back to their deaths.
.
Actually Trump has indicated he might have supported those internment camps. He doesn't see anything wrong with being a racist or a xenophobe, or with imprisoning completely innocent people based merely on their ethnicity. In fact that's probably a large part of the reason Trump supporters voted for him.
Being "Aware"....and being actually in-your-face "SHOCKED"..... are two different things.
EVERYONE is "Aware" of something or another. Yet they still do and say "Stupid" things.
You should be praising Trump for saying "He might have supported the Japanese internment camps". Mr. Roosevelt (D) didn't think twice about it. He DID IT with a simple "Executive order" ! 9066 to be exact.
Seems like a very apt comparison since some of the Jewish refugees the US turned away were killed in Auschwitz. Maybe you need to learn about the SS St Louis?
.
Sorry but I don't praise such horrible and unethical crimes. What it reveals is that Trump is a racist and a man of very low ethics indeed. We don't need to be issuing any more national apologies 50 years from now for crimes which were obvious at the time.
Roosevelt (D) did it to U.S. Citizens. Trump is stopping "ILLEGALS"...….meaning NOT U.S. CITIZENS.
As for the Jewish issue you brought up, Canada and Cuba were complicit. The U.S. had strict laws on how many people could come here, and that came from the 1920's government. They weren't going to adjust our law then. War was on it's way.
I see.....it's so much better to abduct and imprison children who are foreign refugees rather than US citizens.
We're now Abducting children, instead of working and gassing them to death ?
So many scenarios going around out there, it's confusing for sure.
What is it WE are REALLY doing with "ILLEGALS" anyway ?
That's the immediate result of Trump's policy - the abduction and imprisonment of children - but as a former ICE director admitted today those abductions aren't always temporary. And of course we have no real way of knowing what happens to the refugee families who are denied refuge but have valid claims......for all you know they're hacked to death by machetes like the US-supported Contras used to do to their victims.
Y-y-y-y-a-a-a-a-a-w-w-w-w-w-n-n-n-n-n
"click-click-click-click" - How's that broken record working for you?
If they don't get new daily talking points they just have to stutter out the same bullshit.
From your article:
"ICE spokeswoman Liz Johnson said, "A parent who is ordered removed may request that his or her minor child accompany them. If the parent chooses to have his or her child accompany him or her, ICE accommodates, to the extent practicable, the parent’s efforts to make provisions for their children."
Apparently....some "Illegals" DON'T CHOOSE to take "Their ?" child back with them ?
That's a "GIVEN" !
I wonder why Chucky hasn't come out and Cried for these folks yet. He did it for Muslims !
Yet Chucky wants Trump to do an Executive order on this …… "Crises"..... after he DIDN'T !
Let's say that is true, then everyone of them have some adult who has another one of them in her belly. Phony outrage is the hallmark of Liberalism.
What are these parents thinking, knowing that if they try to cross illegally, they may be separated from their children? If they left in fear of their own country, then the international norm is to go to the first country that is not yours and apply for asylum. In this case it would be Mexico. Just becuase you want to go to the USA, doesn't mean you get the golden ticket to enter. Where else do they put the children of those arrested for a crime in the same place as the lawbreaker is confined?
Where else do they put the children of those arrested for a crime in the same place as the lawbreaker is confined?
So your opinion is that fearful migrants are hardened criminals?
This thing is all about Trump wanting to get his way to motivate his political base.
Why doesn't he do what the majority of the people want? The majority of Americans do not want a wall or this detention of children and babies.
Trump wants to please his 35% at the expense of everyone else. It is a national disgrace.
breaking the law is breaking the law and enforcing current law is normal.
we are not going down the path of "open borders"
secure the border and all those problems your complaining about go away. it is that simple.
Why do some people love these illegal border crossers?
Hello charger...
It is not a matter of 'loving' immigrants .. from the individuals I personally know that are protective of illegals, it is a way of defending the 'America that is better than this' ... yet in reality 'we' incarcerate 100's of 1000's of people in our society for crimes and split up families daily .. 'we' have a barely functioning Foster Care System that American children are forced to participate in...
I actually read a comment yesterday that read something like 'American children have extended family to go to when parents are incarcerated.' Wow someone needs to tell those young people in Foster Care, feeling like they are trapped in a foreign country - that their 'extended family' will be there to save them any day now .. that is how phony and disingenuous people really are - they fantasize that America is better than this!
Just my opinion charger 383..................... and I did vent a wee bit....
I saw a report that stated since ICE has taken over certain aspects of immigration .. an illegal relative / family member already in the US, can NO longer come forward and claim children from detention facilities - hard to believe that was ever actually a thing, illegals coming forward to claim illegal children....
Hey XD ..
I cannot argue with you - except on this one point ... too many families are single parent homes .. had I been sent to jail / prison my children would have been covered without a doubt - not all have the kind of support I grew up with ... be it they are alienated from their families based on abuse they suffered or for whatever reason - many Americans are alone, and when they cross the line .. their children are stripped from their arms as Social Services 'Child Protection' steps in to remove the children..
For those at the border, family housing is limited .. I read that there are like 2500 beds available for families, once they are full - then what? this is a conundrum for sure...
Success stories are a wonderful thing .. there are many children raised in difficult situations that turn their lives around .. homeless young people get accepted into Harvard..
I have friends that when we were in High School they were runaways in order to get placed in a local group home ...
That is not where my argument lies .. my argument is with the thoughts that 'we' are better than this' when it comes to separating families when a crime has been committed .. it is simply not true, separating families is a common practice in the United States - yet it is only inhuman if those families being separated are here illegally?
venting, I do some of that here too
There are days I think an individual has to vent ... it is healthy
This is what I was trying to post on the closed thread, about why I am opposed to these foreign border crossers
I don't like foreigners coming while Citizens are not taken care off
I don't like having to take pay for and care of other peoples problems.
I don't like overpopulation and over crowding
I don't like people coming here and thinking they have a right to enter our country
I don't like ungrateful people
I don't like my tax money spent on this and hear there is no money for things to improve Citizen's lives
I don't like the standard and quality of Citizens life being reduced
I don't like that after we do things to reduce pollution, our efforts are wasted by letting more people in
I don't like ticks, leaches or mosquitos
That is some of my reasons
And they are excellent reasons! About 1500 people per day enter our country illegally. That is about 1/2 a million per year. We have to house, feed, clothe, pay for dental/health needs. Pay for lawyers and administrative needs. The expense is extensive.
About 15 million US children live in poverty. 21% of our population.
and I also don't like to have to deal with their kids they drag with them and the uproar the kids cause
Ticks and mosquitos have existed in a lot of states long before immigration began. As for leaches, they require a water source (usually muddy) to survive. As the topic is border crossings, unless people swam here, it is not likely that too many leeches came with them.
they are parasites and the comparison is very similar
we should only allow people to apply for asylum at one of our embassies. (not our border)
kids being separated from their parents? problem solved.
and make the standard very high
it already is... that is why they choose to enter illegally
I read something on another seed that is truly heartbreaking regarding the children in these interment camps. It was about a tiny girl who was visibly upset and crying being separated from her mother. The workers were not allowed to try to comfort her as they are prohibited from interacting with the children on a personal level. Anyone here who has children has to be saddened as they know how much a little TLC can go to calm fears and dry the tears of a child.
The vast majority of these people do not have legitimate claims for asylum and are simply saying it to get their foot in the door. Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and re-entering it is a felony. Trump decided to prosecute both, whether they have children with them or not. If people decide to bring their children with them when they break the law, then they should expect that they’ll be separated from their children when they’re arrested (just like everybody else).
I don’t particularly like putting children in camps or paying to keep them there. Either their home countries should agree to take these children back or we should deduct the expense of caring for them from the home country’s foreign aid package.
Simplest way to stop your tears John? Stop the ILLEGAL ALIENS from crossing the border.
Simple.
But how?
No previous president (of either party) has been able to do it....and so far Trump's talk of building a border well is..just talk).
(And BTW, there's no way the Mexicans will pay for it....)
Take away the ability to work in the US without proper government authorization would be #1. Mandatory use of E-verify.
Significant fines on anyone who hires a person without proper government authorization to work in the US would be #2.
Immediate extradition of anyone working illegally in the US.
End birthright citizenship like most other countries.
Why should the US taxpayers have to pay $35,000 or more each year for 10 years? Wouldn't it be far cheaper than $35,000 or more to just deport an illegal alien?
OTOH, the US government could apply trade or other sanctions against oppressive governments that keep sending their citizens to the US to live and work so they can send money back to their country of origin like Mexico does.
E-verify should be #1 so the employer doesn't have wriggle room to say the illegal gave them legit looking paperwork. I've seen this in action. As long as the illegal immigrant has documents that look legal then the employer isn't held accountable.
Then, I agree it should be FINANCIALLY EXTREMELY PAINFUL to hire an illegal immigrant.
However, the US government has been inviting the illegal immigrants to come to the US for decades via amnesties and programs targeted to financially support illegal immigrants and their families. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has been in place for decades when it concerns illegal immigrants.
Who are the oppressors in Venezuela?
Here's the "dirty little secret" --pretending to being opposed to illegal immigrants, but doing what they can to see it continues: Many Republicans want as many illegals here as much as the Democrats do.
Why?
Because illegals work for extremely low wages.
If you're a business owner, you can make your costs of doing business plummet-- illegals will work for a fraction of what businesses have to pay citizens. (And if they had to hire union workers the difference is much greater).
But to be fair-- there's also a "dirty little secret" that applies to many (not all) Democrats. While many base their views on humanitarian reasons, their dirty little secret is that they want as many illegals as possible, because those that do eventually get to vote will overwhelmingly vote Democrat!
So while many on both the Left and the Right do have "legitimate" reasons for their views on the subject-- some people (not all) on both sides do have an ulterior motive which they try to hide...
(So with some people on both sides of the aisle actually wanting to admit more illegals-- is it any surprise that we "Can't" find a solution?)
That being said, Trump has taken his cruelty to a whole new level with the new policy he just implemented. Here's a seed that had been locked but I just unlocked it. Its of major importance in understanding of what's going on:
Breaking: First Tape Of Events Inside One Of Trump's Children's Prison Is Released!
And if you're a business owner who lives in Mexico, (or other country south of the border), you could be in a position to aid illegal immigration to the US in order to take advantage of it with the help of the US government, of course.
From 2012....
Of course they are. You can't put a kid in an adult jail. The adults are being arrested for breaking the law. The only change in policy is that we are arresting more people than we used to. If they have kids, homes are found for them.
What's your solution? You can either stop arresting lawbreakers just because they have kids with them (in what other context is that ever done?) or you can send the kids with them to jail.
By the way, most of these "children" that we are processing haven't been separated from anybody. They are teens who walked across the border all by themselves.
And time and experience has shown us that most of the time, they disappear and never appear for their court date. It's a strategy employed by people who are not really seeking asylum, but just looking to live in the US without having to go through the legal process. This policy of not enforcing the law actually encourages people to enter illegally. That's why we aren't going to do it anymore.
Link?
Are you asking me for a link that says you can't jail kids for the crimes of their parents? You can't jail anybody who isn't charged with a crime. That doesn't require a link. That's the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution. No person can be deprived of liberty without due process of law.
I suppose we could charge the children with a crime, but I don't know of anyone who wants to do that.
So instead of fixing both situations, I hope you're not implying that "two wrongs make a right."
No. I'm asking you for a link that supports your claim!
Which claim is that?
While the POSIC ( piece of shite in charge), has the ability to end this with a mere phone call, I take greater umbrage in the lack of action by that collectively spineless group we refer to as Congress. It is rather pathetic that they can sit back and watch this unfold on a daily basis and do what they usually seem to do, which is nothing.
If this is what it takes to make America great, then I prefer obscurity and mediocrity.
By the by, in the POSIC's latest nonsensical diatribe he mentions that America will not be allowed to become a migrant camp, sorry to inform that stupid shite, but he is about two hundred and thirty some years too late.
Bad parenting!
Why are we waging war in Syria if human rights violations are so severe south of our border that we are required to take in hundreds of thousands of refugees each year for "humanitarian" reasons?
Shouldn't the US military be used to clean up the festering Hellholes within easy reach of our southern border so the citizens of those countries can live long and prosper in their home countries?
Because Trump wants to take every opportunity to pander to "his base".
So why did other US presidents send our troops to Syria? Pandering to their bases?
I respectfully disagree, there were no American boots on the ground in Syria attempting to thwart a genocide of any kind .. NO action was taken .. simply a redline drawn in 2012, which after it was violated, Putin stepped in and negotiated a deal for Assad to remove chemical weapons. The US's involvement in Syria was a coalition providing air raids against Daesh's caliphate began in 2014, later in 2015 boots were placed on the ground to 'assist' rebels/free Syrian army and the Kurds against Daesh.
Russia stepped into Syria fall of 2015 as well
Black gold? Texas tea?
Religious war. And the US is backing Al Qaeda in Syria.
Syria is more of strategic/logistic importance rather than oil wealth from what I have read. But, you may or may not know, that Syria has been on the US chopping block for almost 2 decades.
The US government mostly turns a blind eye to genocides.
and
Yeah, I don't think there's anything that we're doing or have done in that region that wasn't primarily because of the oil and gas resources there.
Unfortunately that probably is the answer to the question. Not enough value for the puppetmasters.
Obama walked right up that red line, had no idea of what to do, turned tail and ran, like the wimpy coward he is.
A related question is why has the US generally refused to take any responsibility for the millions of refugees its war against Iraq caused and the ripple effect that had in Syria? We should be giving refuge to the vast majority of those refugees.
It is not economically or socially feasible due to vast, vast cultural differences and attitudes.
It is a better fit to bring in Catholics from south of the border than it is to bring in members of the Muslim faith. Especially after 9/11.
The Catholic Church, the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and assorted other organizations, friends and family members and government programs have been in place for decades in order to make the US livable for illegal immigrants from Mexico, Central and south America.
I disagree with that statement completely and I think it buys into the same kind of Islamophobia expressed by Trump.
But if it were a legitimate concern then the US should not have invaded a country which had nothing to do with 9/11, nor should it have invaded Afghanistan just to go after a few thousand terrorists.
I agree.
I was 10 kinds of pissed when opposition to the Iraq invasion was silenced. I remember Phil Donahue being one of the few liberals in media who had the balls to question the war drums. Phil was taken off the air.
When few Democrats in elected office even questioned the rush to invade Iraq, I became very worried about what the true agenda was when it came to Iraq. The illegal invasion and the atrocities committed by US troops and contractors gave rise to ISIS.
War is profitable to the US economy. Keeping the Middle East as unstable as possible means never ending war. I don't know if the oil barons and war profiteers are one and the same or if they are just of the same ilk.
The US has been building bases on the African continent where oil reserves have been discovered since around 2006 or so. There has also been the saber rattling toward Venezuela where the supposed the largest oil reserves in the world are located.
It is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
Yep. I think you and I have very similar views on this. It's like we're worried about a minor leak in an overflow pipe which shouldn't normally have any water pressure......meanwhile another branch of the government is building new wells to feed that pipe and build up the pressure.
Some people say they come here to do work Americans don't want to do, so have them do that for a year on strict work release from jail to pay the big fine they get, then send them back. Let the word get out.
Another suggestion is put them to work building the wall and after a few months let them escape south
If any of you were interested in the hearing with IG Horowitz and FBI director Wray today, you could only watch it on one network. MSNBC and CNN were covering this story all day. Right now this is a winner for the left, that may be why we are being bombarded with it. Even House Republicans are rushing to do something about it. The dems don't want it to go away. 73% of the public is against separating children from parents despite those parents being under arrest. Only Trump and Trump alone is trying to defend the law. The past two administrations were avoiding the issue by releasing those entering the country illegally with children. That is why we have the problem. People learned that bringing children (sometimes, not even their own, got you in).
Stay tuned
What manner of so-called "human beings" …
• Change a law to make what has been legal ... illegal ... falsely claim someone else is responsible … and, do this to pander to a political base that includes white nationalists, Neo-Nazis, xenophobes, and haters of various stripes ...
• Do so by forcefully separating children from parents escaping unthinkable acts of kidnapping, murder, rape and mayhem, and … imprisoning those children … some, in tent cities where air temperatures exceed 100 degrees. And, to top it off, hand prison profiteers literally millions of dollars to “manage” these imprisonments -- (i.e. private prison company CoreCivic stocks went up 140 percent after Donald Trump’s election)!
• Dare to intentionally misstate portions of the New Testament … in a wholly dishonest attempt to justify these acts.
These would be Donald Trump, Jeff Sessions and a cowardly, complicit pack of Republican Congressional political cowards and enablers who fear being primaried by the likes of Confederate-flag-waving-hate-mongerer challengers.
Shame on any self-identifying "American" who fails to stand up and call it what it is … by definition … a "crime against humanity,” namely … "A deliberate act, typically as part of a systematic campaign, that causes human suffering or death on a large scale.”
Well said Mac.
Why isn't the US military being deployed to rid those governments of their corrupt leaders so the people remain in their own countries just south of our border?
Do you support open borders?
Should the US be responsible for taking in all worldwide refugees including economic ones?
What should be done to end homelessness, poverty, rape, murder, domestic violence and assorted mayhem within the US? Why haven't we addressed and eradicated those problems within our country's boundaries? Can we or is it impossible to do it?
What is the endgame that you support in order to be considered a "good" person?
That's because usually it's the US which supports the corrupt governments and which helps create the refugee problem in the first place.
Bingo.
So do you really believe that the US government is not laying out the welcome mat for unskilled and un or semi-educated workers in order to exploit their labor now and in the future?
What about bringing back the draft? Could today's illegal immigrants be expected to supply the US cannon fodder in the future?
The US population would be maintaining or rising due to longevity and then declining due to less than replacement birth rate if it was not for illegal immigration. This is what is happening in all but the poorest countries.
What is the endgame here?
The US has been built on the backs of unskilled immigrants, and it takes all kinds to make a society anyway. What I have a problem with is 1) greed-based or ideology-based interference in other countries where we've literally not once taken a thoughtful position which helps the people of that country; and 2) a failure to predict that a refugee crisis will be the inevitable result of those ill-conceived policies.
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That's exactly what Bush did after he invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. The only way to end that is to send the people who create, authorize or support those wars overseas to fight them. First up for the draft should be anyone who approved of the Iraq AUMF.
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Is there one? As you know there isn't really an immigration crisis in the US despite what Trump wants his supporters to think. But even in the short term the human population will grow and there will be an increasing amount of migration due to climate change and environmental collapse, so we can either learn to live with one another or find more efficient ways to kill each other. Note that the two biggest factors in the Syrian refugee crisis are the Iraq war and a major drought.
Agreed.
However, history bears out that we will probably find more efficient ways to kill each other and also continue to pollute our environment to the point that Nature will run its course and drastically reduce human population to one that the Earth can sustain....or our species will just be another one that goes extinct when the Earth becomes uninhabitable before our sun burns out.
All too true, but in the meanwhile we have a choice about how we treat our fellow man.
How about our fellow man in the US? What about our homeless? What about the 16% living in poverty inside the US? Shouldn't they be the priority?
Does it just feel better to bring in people from outside the US? Does it inspire feelings that those people should be beholden to us and owe us gratitude for rescuing them from poverty and allowing them to become world class consumers and exploiters of the world's environment?
We need to take care of ourselves first and raise our standard of living. Every citizen should have good job, healthcare, Vacation and leisure time, retirement plan. money in the bank and money to spend before they let anymore in.
Shouldn't we be addressing all these issues as well as changing our foreign policy so as to reduce the need for people to flee their homes? This isn't a zero-sum game, and they all seem far more important than Trump's tax cut for the rich.
It should not be a zero-sum, but to date what is being done to address any of this in a humanitarian way?
To date, all I see happening is a rising clamor to have open borders without addressing any of the reasons why that is not a humane option for anyone.
Pray tell me what POTUS in the last 3 decades has not encouraged illegal immigration and amnesty after amnesty?
What POTUS has worked to make living conditions better in countries south of our border so people have economic mobility?
Is it the duty of the POTUS to make living conditions better in other countries?
Nothing positive will happen while Trump and the GOP are in control.
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That depends on how you feel about refugees coming here but in many cases (like with Reagan's dirty wars) the refugees were a direct result of US policy. For example, apart from conservative butt-hurt over losing their puppet dictator in Nicaragua there was no reason whatsoever for the US to create or support the Contras.
i have so far agreed with many of your points and Skrekk's. This is definitely not an easy issue (at least in my opinion). Questions tho: Do you ever form an opinion on anyone, at times, based upon how they treat total strangers (hospitality etc) ? Could any of these immigrants possibly have any ideas that could give us a solution to our current issues we deal with concerning our own citizens (it seems so far that we have come up with none) ?
I don't know. I have my doubts since they came here instead of working on implementing in their birth country.
I just found a video that explains how our cultures shape personality....and touches on how the US exporting their culture is detrimental to other cultures.
Maybe we need to understand how our culture has created poverty, violence and homelessness before we can find the solution to end it in our country and quit exporting it other countries.
around mark 3:30 the speaker tells us that if we were born in, Medieval Times for example, then there's no reason to believe we wouldn't defend those values and traditions of that time period - i disagree, that's not always the case, generally i think it may be true of the majority of people but we have countless examples of people born during a certain era who don't defend those ideas or traditions of that era, those who bring peace in a war zone or start a war in a peaceful community. (which is later touched upon, those "breaking free")
around 8 min mark it does pose interesting questions - are you a product of your environment and unable to do anything about it ? is everyone just predisposed to certain behaviors in advance simply because of where they were born, how they were raised ? it almost seems like they are just a victim of circumstance...
around 10 min mark - makes me question a lot of things about where this guy is leading with his point. First he says that our identity isn't determined by us, relieving each of us of the responsibility of our actions/thoughts/morals/values - yet around here he starts in about interests, as if Monarchs or Imperialists are a separate "species" who are creating the forces working against us, as if they did determine their identity and are in a "superior" position to help shape "the common person". Seems a bit odd to me..
i give him credit tho - we do need to question things and question what's been left out, i don't think enough people do that and are happily force fed their information. unfortunately, i think this is also dangerous since it leads to conspiracy theories and paranoia (as evident on this site, there are constantly seeds about the boogeymen of "deep state" and fears of politicians in the night)
he's got some good ideas of where we should start "fixing" things but i don't see any of them actually happening, unfortunately our world is deeply driven by the almighty dollar, it's extremely complex and with it brings power and control - something that many humans crave over others so this environment globally will continue to exist for many decades to come in my opinion.
in the end tho - i disagree, we are not "victims of circumstance" and we are responsible for decisions we choose to make. I could easily be brought up in a very strict religious setting that values life greatly - yet make the choice to become a serial killer, and he's suggesting that i'm not responsible nor accountable for that choice and i definitely disagree. I think he's got a good point with understanding environments and the world's influences on everyone - but we are ultimately in control of ourselves (with some exceptions like mental illnesses etc). The end of his speech reminds me of "participation trophies" - well, you get a trophy just for showing up, you couldn't help that you are terrible at baseball ! yes, you can help that you are terrible at baseball and you need to take responsibility for being terrible at baseball because you didn't show up for practice etc.
I can only agree with this guy to a point, about halfway, then he loses me.
Cultures do shape many people's personalities but at some point those people control it as well and voluntarily either let it continue to shape their personality or they begin to question things and stop letting it shape - but ultimately that choice is made by each of us individually and not the environment in my opinion.
And, in regards to my question, since we have some similar environments here in the USA that they do in some other countries - poverty, homelessness etc, couldn't possibly some of those immigrants hold a key to us coming up with a solution for taking care of those issues in this country ? (just a question, i'm not taking a side on this immigrant issue)
Great video tho - thank you for sharing it !
well sometimes when you are working on a project - is it always easier to fix what's wrong or is it sometimes easier to start over from scratch with the knowledge that you learned in the previous "trial" ?
I agree with the majority of your assessment of the video.
I will note that the people who do stand against their society risk being outcasts, imprisoned, or killed.
History has shown us that "rebels" have successfully led revolutions with mixed results. It depends on the mindset of the majority because it is impossible to control the majority (at least for long) when they are united in purpose.
The history of the Roman Empire is fascinating (the little that I know of it). The conquered people were allowed to live pretty much as they always had and worship whatever deities they wanted just as long as they sent money/offerings to Rome. The masses seem to want the "EASY" button and don't take much interest in who is ruling them. The majority seem to need rules and routines that do not require much decision making.
I must do some errands and might add something later after I further contemplate nature, nurture, and the best way to save myself from myself. LOL!
Consider the success of native born US citizens against the corruption in our government.
Would semi-literate farm workers be the answer to taking on Wall Street corruption that infests our government?
i apologize , i didn't see that you replied - i must have missed it in the tracker.
Yes, people who do stand against their society do risk being outcasts, imprisoned or killed - going " against the grain " isn't always very popular for a variety of reasons . Those " rebels " do have mixed results , along with mixed reasons for doing what they are doing ( sometimes "rebels" aren't always noble in the purpose of their pursuits either ), dissension is a very effective tool to implement agendas that would otherwise be buried and ignored ( we see that example today in both major parties of our political climate ).
It's much easier to just " follow " the rules and rely on what is " fed " to you instead of thinking for yourself in life - so many choose that option.
i am not going to definitely say " yes " or that they would always be successful if they took on the task, but there have been times in history ( worldwide ) where situations like this happened - check out Bussa's rebellion, it's very interesting.
maybe recruiting those semi-literate farm workers and gathering information from their experiences would provide a path on how to steer the " ship " of USA in a better direction ? i'm not saying it definitely would or wouldn't, but it is a possibility .
I find it food for thought.
Do you believe that the illegal immigrants are going to fight for US citizens if a rebellion breaks out?
I see them being used as pawns for political and economic purposes. I believe the majority of illegal immigrants are intelligent enough to see this also.
What "experiences" do you mean?
• Change a law to make what has been legal ... illegal ... falsely claim someone else is responsible/
Sorry Mac, but Trump and Sessions are enforcing the laws that Obama ignored, your histrionic and hysterical rantings are ludicrous and impress no-one.
Liberals don't give a shyt about these kids, and ignore the fact that many of the so called parents are drug runners, sexual predators and traffickers, and gang members and criminals of all types. For all their hyperbole and hysteria, the left wingers have no solution other than to blame Trump.
I am going to make a legitimate point and question here, and I would like a sane liberal to try and counter me.
The argument of the week for liberals is the separation of children from illegal aliens who come across the border, or even worse, smugglers and coyotes who use these children as pawns to get them across. Once these children are here, they are housed in decent housing, fed nutritious food, given education, crafts and outings to local sights. These children are safe and being taken care of.
Liberals screech about it.
In another side, AMERICAN children in inner cities live in shitty housing, are lucky to get one nutritious meal, usually given at school, and live in constant fear of being killed by a stray bullet, raped by someone in the community, forced into a gang, or swept up in the drug dealing business because that is the only means of making money they know. This has been going on for decades, trillions of dollars have been poured into these communities, and very little to no change has happened. With all this going on TODAY, not a peep from liberals about it.
My question is....Why does the left become highly emotional when talking about ILLEGAL ALIENS who are being taken care of and safe, but refuse to say a damn thing about the conditions our own children are facing every day?
"Liberals" are generally the ones working as social workers and teachers in the "inner city schools".
I have no idea where you come up with the concept that "conservatives" have anything to offer the inner city. Other than their long distance racism.
Well then they suck at it. Inner cities have seen zero positive changes in the last 50 years, especially in democrat strongholds. These liberal social workers and teachers don't want their inner cities to get better because then they would have nothing to bitch about and no need to beg for more and more money that, year after year, is getting wasted.
What long distance racism, John? Be specific.
On a related not, I have challenged you several times to show that ANY of your accusation, hyperbole, whining seeds have actually come true. To date, you have not accepted the challenge. I wonder why? No I don't.
The COC prevents me from addressing you.
If you think that conservatives have helped the inner city population, please tell us how.
Never said conservatives have helped. However, democrats and liberals, for decades, have claimed to be the champions of the inner cities. They really have sucked at it. Is it because they really don't care, except during election years when their vote is needed, or is it the inner city folks don't really want to be helped, as they will lose their government lifetime tit of freebies?
Which one is it, John?
BTW...You say the CoC prevents you from responding to me, but the very next post you reply to me. Why can you not respond to me?
I have to agree with you there. My son moved over 1,000 miles away to teach in an inner city school. ( Note to John, he is not a liberal ) He tells some pretty sad tales of what his kids go through. He has had kids join the wrestling team just so they don't have to go home right after school.
I guess the outrage about these "camps" is that Democrats and liberals are FINALLY seeing the result of enforcing laws they have been lax on for a very long time.
Though the Dems are a part of the problem, the other half of that equation is the GOP. One is no better than the other, just painted with a different brush.
By the by, the outrage seems to be gathering on both sides, as it should.
If this law were enforced, as it should have been, back in 1996 it wouldn't be an issue now. It would have been seen as bad legislation and something would have been done. It's made worse that everybody was silent on this for ~20 years. Now that the "big mean" President Trump is in office people want to be offended despite knowing this was going on under, what's now looking like the most corrupt administration in US history, the Obama administration.
It's really nothing but selective outrage. Just like all the garbage about "assault weapons" (nobody says a damn thing until a school is shot up) or the faux concern about suicide (until some famous shitwad offs themselves).
The politicians (on both sides) that are spouting off at the mouths about this are only looking for votes. They give the "elect me and I'll fix it", then when elected into office, the issue is never heard about again. We all know that is exactly how it will go, but many will vote these feckless cunts back into office based on the "outrage of the week".
Sorry this goes beyond politics, it is just plain old wrong.
But that's the consequences of breaking laws.
The Methodist Church has begun proceedings to excommunicate Jeff Sessions over this horrible policy. This is not what the Bible teaches when it comes to our neighbors and Sessions has proven he will cherry pick gospel to support an ungodly policy.
I have to wonder how will the taxpayers pay for all of this?
Trump announced his new "Space Force", which has certainly got to cost almost as much as Bush adding an entire new government agency like Homeland Security.
Who is paying, who is profiting, where are the girl children, the headline news of a guard raping a 4 year old should cause outrage on both sides of the aisle.
There is no justification for paying for all of this when Flint has poison lead filled water and antiquated lead pipes and the U.S. Territory of Puerto Rico has not recovered from the hurricane and suffers without electricity.
While Republicans used to cry "fiscal responsibility" where is that now?
The priorities of Republicans are clearly on the side of tax cuts for the wealthy, and everyone else can just suffer or die.
Add to the fact they are planning on gutting Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid and repeal healthcare allowing "junk insurance" to rule the market and gut protections for "pre-existing" conditions, we know that all Americans can really look forward to is suffering, dying, or bankruptcy while the 1% reap all of our tax dollars in tax cuts.
OK!
Something new!
The Flores settlement requires the federal government to do two things: to place children with a close relative or family friend “without unnecessary delay,” rather than keeping them in custody; and to keep immigrant children who are in custody in the “least restrictive conditions” possible.
Under Flores, CHILDREN MUST BE KEPT IN LICENSED FACILITIES … that is not happening. You TRUMPIANS need to stop being miseducated by Fox, Breitbart and the usual hate sources!
And, AS LEAKED PHOTOS, VIDEOS and other realities hit the fan, Republicans, like the RATS THEY ARE, will leave the Trump ship, have their grandstanding "Come to Jesus" moments as they "realize the horrible realities uncovered by the Mueller Investigation!"
INCARCERATING INFANTS IS A LOSING PROPOSITION … and those who support it in the hope of realizing their white nationalist dreams … will be repudiated for what they are.
Some of these incarcerated CHILDREN …
… WILL NEVER BE REUNITED WITH THEIR PARENTS!
Today, Michael Cohen, had his "Come to Jesus" equivalent moment …
Cohen Quits RNC Gig, Slams Trump’s Immigration Policy
By Yaron Steinbuch
June 20, 2018
Trump’s former longtime confidant, who is under criminal investigation , also blasted the president’s “zero tolerance” policy under which children have been separated from their parents after illegal border crossings.
“As the son of a Polish holocaust survivor, the images and sounds of this family separation policy is heart wrenching,” Cohen wrote, marking the first time he has distanced himself from Trump.
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Enjoy the FONTS!