Russia Mania Is the Birtherism of the Left

Except that we've seen how Trump defers to Russian dictator Putin with our own eyes, and our intelligence agencies all have evidence of Russian meddling in our elections.  We know Trump's brand was funded by Russia, from his own son.  Not a shred of evidence for birtherism was ever produced.  Just innuendo.

False equivalence.

One thing you are missing is that Birtherism started with Hillary Clinton supporters in 2008.  The thing you are ignoring is the love affair the left has had with Russia/Soviet Union since the 1940s at least.  Remember, FDR agreed to let Russia control everything east of the Elbe except West Berlin after WWII in their agreement from Yalta.

Here read some more from Mark Levin about how Trump really didn't make any mistakes in dealing with Putin compared to past Presidents, including FDR and JFK:

directorblue.blogspot

Who ran with birtherism?

The far right.

FDR is dead.  The one in bed with Russia now is Trump figuratively (maybe), and some Repubs, literally.

The thing you are ignoring is the love affair the left has had with Russia/Soviet Union since the 1940s at least.  Remember, FDR agreed to let Russia control everything east of the Elbe except West Berlin after WWII in their agreement from Yalta.

Is this how Fox News is trying to spin Trump's love affair with Putin? There has never been any love affair of the left with Russia. FDR was too easy with Stalin on the post-war borders of central Europe. 

There has never been any love affair of the left with Russia.

At least not since the Civil Rights Act was passed and really not much since WWII.

So why didn't Obama admonish Putin for his behavior? He had eight years to do it.

He did, he imposed sanctions and 6 months later, the russian economy collapsed. Also, after being shown proof that russia did meddle in our elections, he kicked the russians out of the country. Trumpy was shown the EXACT same intel Obama was shown and nearly two years later, he STILL has done nothing but be Putin's cock holster. I love the narrative though, you claim Obama did nothing, when he did and you say trump did something, when he didn't... That's hilarious! LOL 

One thing you are missing is that Birtherism started with Hillary Clinton supporters in 2008

"Squirrel!"

Besides being only partly true, it is completely irrelevant.

And this seed headline and content would only be true had President Obama actually been born in Kenya.

As it is it's just "made up bullshit lie" vs "actual fact, dozens of Trump campaign staff lying about their contacts with Russian operatives and Trumps own words and his pathetic groveling before Putin".

So why didn't Obama admonish Putin for his behavior? He had eight years to do it.

Who signed the Magnitsky Act in 2012? Who enacted the Crimea sanctions in 2014 and Russian interference sanctions in 2016?

Are you merely misinformed or intentionally obtuse? 

I know, I know...pick me!!

Removed

Who backed a coup of a duly elected pro Russian government in the Ukraine?  Who ignored history and the fact that Crimea is 67% Russian? I know, I know- Obama.  Who then imposed sanctions against Russia for reacting in the same way the US would of if Russia were to back a coup in Mexico or Canada?  Sorry, I have that wrong. The US would have invaded either country so fast the coup wouldn't have time to enact a single trial, imprisonment, exile, or execution before we crossed the border and took control.

ronpaulinstitute

en.wikipedia

Oh and Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine- they simply revoked the gift.

wilsoncenter

I love the fact the left is upset about Russia running a propaganda campaign during a US election; and hacking the DNC.  It is nothing the US hasn't done; and in many cases we have done far worse.

thehill

latimes

The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it's done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn't include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn't like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.

Levin defines intervention as "a costly act which is designed to determine the election results [in favor of] one of the two sides." These acts, carried out in secret two-thirds of the time, include funding the election campaigns of specific parties, disseminating misinformation or propaganda, training locals of only one side in various campaigning or get-out-the-vote techniques, helping one side design their campaign materials, making public pronouncements or threats in favor of or against a candidate, and providing or withdrawing foreign aid.

In 59% of these cases, the side that received assistance came to power, although Levin estimates the average effect of "partisan electoral interventions" to be only about a 3% increase in vote share.

The U.S. hasn't been the only one trying to interfere in other countries' elections, according to Levin's data. Russia attempted to sway 36 foreign elections from the end of World War II to the turn of the century – meaning that, in total, at least one of the two great powers of the 20th century intervened in about 1 of every 9 competitive, national-level executive elections in that time period.

Of course the left/Dems are just upset that their piece of shit candidate lost. If HRC would have won this would have been swept under the rug. 

Trump, Nunes and his other sycophants TRIED to sweep it under the rug but Trump made the mistake of firing Comey. 

Trump was calling for the election results to be questioned if Hillary won. The last thing Obama or Hillary would want is the fake Steele dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign coming to light. 

Why not?

Or the knowledge that the Obama DOJ/FBI was targeting members of the Trump campaign.

Who in the Trump campaign did the DOJ/FBI target? 

Oh the faux outrage. 

Yes, it comes through clearly in your comment. 

So why didn't Obama admonish Putin for his behavior? He had eight years to do it.

Given that Obama did do what you claim he did not, you're either willfully ignorant or you're purposely making a false claim.

You've made many similar false claims before.

Aren't your arms getting tired carrying so much water for the Russians?

1) Anyone that watched the presser between putin and trumpy could plainly see trump throwing the USA under the bus in a bid to protect putin. 

2) Why the private meeting with Putin? Trump has never asked any other world leader to have a private meeting with him....why putin? 

3) Mr. "I have the best words", walking back his comments because he couldn't figure out "would" and "wouldn't" didn't help, it just made what he said even more ridiculous...

4) His personal hand written notes for that presser, he crossed out the part about taking Putin to task for interfering in our election process and instead wrote in, "there was no collusion". 

This is just ONE meeting.... factor in his staff's contacts with Russia, the endless lies about meetings, the denials, the deflections... There are literally mountains of evidence. 

But on the subject of Obama's birth certificate? There never was any evidence at all that he faked it. Why would someone fake a birth certificate when they are born? "Well, this one here, could be president 50 years from now, we better alter it!!!!". Just plain dumb. 

If there was no collusion, if there was nothing illegal about meeting with the Russians during the campaign, then why all the lying? Multiple lies from trump and his idiot son about the trump tower meetings, for one. 

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Trump said himself... "Not me, or anyone in my campaign has had any meetings with any Russians!!!". Now, we know that to be a lie and given that it's trump that said it, no one is shocked because he lies constantly. But what about all the other people that lied about these meetings? 

Again, I ask, if there was nothing illegal, shady or colluding, why all the lies? 

Nothing to see here, just keep kicking the can down the road, no one in the trump admin had ANY ties to Russia...

So zero evidence of collusion then?

So zero evidence of collusion then?

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

See what, show us the evidence...or has it been redacted?

Ummm I believe you left out a couple of words. 88% of white evangelists or Baptists (I think it was Baptists in a southern district.)

There's quite a difference.

See what, show us the evidence...or has it been redacted?

If it was redacted, it's because Trump wanted it to be.  

There was something there to see?  What? Where?  

Again:  "There is none so blind as he who WILL NOT see."

You do realize that the dollar bill in your wallet might have been in the possession of President Putin during any of his visits to the US to meet with Obama.  Does that create a tie to Russia now for you?  According to your chart it does.

$1,00....VS.......a few hundred million dollars? Yea, there is a little bit of a difference there. Also, holding a dollar bill that someone may have touched at some point in time, doesn't equal taking money, (or giving money to), another individual for a service.....you know...like help winning an election... LOL 

Wow.  I thought you at least kept up with current events.  Are you avoiding certain topics so you can pretend all is right in Trumpworld?  There is a lack of attention paid to what Mueller has actually done so far, which includes many indictments, pleas, jail and other fun for those people Trump surrounds himself with.  But now that Trump shown his weakness by grovelling (to Putin) in front of the entire world in Helsinki, everybody can see Putin has some kind of leverage over Trump.  Conservatives might avoid those facts, but the world saw.  It was pathetic, he even blamed the US and tried to appease Putin at every opportunity.  Humiliating for the country.

There are likely traces of cocaine on every bill in your wallet. Damn all you junkies!

Maddow had a good piece tying Russia's hacking of the DNC's analytics to a subsequent change a few days later of ad buying and strategy on the part of the Trump campaign in several key states including WI, MI and PA.    It seems Russia's meddling in our election really did sway the election outcome and the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia by making use of that stolen data.

msnbc

O'Bama's birth was easily proved. Unfortunately many birthers were 'slow' to come around...probably a few hold outs remain.

Collusion is a matter of connecting thousands of dots...will a picture of Donald Trump emerge?  I await the conclusion of the investigation and will accept its findings.

Equating the two issues is ridiculous.

I don't know.  This something Obama stated recently while visiting Kenya:

facebook

Did you miss the course material on inference during English? 

Being obtuse? 

Making a funny?

Posts: 13,541

Ethnicity of U.S. Presidents « on: July 10, 2009, 08:25:14 pm » Ethnic origins of U.S. Presidents 43 men have served as President, with the following ethnic origins 27 English  2 English/Scottish  2 English/Welsh  4 Scottish  1 Scottish/Irish  2 Irish  3 Dutch  1 German  1 African Fully, 38 of the 43 Presidents ethnic backgrounds are from the British Isles   English Adams (John) Adams (John Q) Bush (George) Bush (George W) Carter Cleveland Clinton Coolidge Fillmore Ford Garfield Harding Harrison (Benjamin) Harrison (William Henry) Hoover Jackson Jefferson Johnson (Andrew) Johnson (Lyndon) Lincoln Madison Nixon Taft Taylor Truman Tyler Washington English/Scottish Hayes Wilson English/Welsh Arthur Pierce Scottish Buchanan Grant McKinley Polk Scottish/Irish Monroe Irish Kennedy (Irish Catholic) Reagan (Irish Protestant) Dutch Roosevelt (Theodore)Roosevelt (Franklin) Van Buren German Eisenhower African (Kenyan) Obama

Arguably a poor source;

uselectionatlas

Primarialy because other sources claim that 22 of the Presidents were of Irish descent.....

gotireland

But most sources agree that Obama's ancestry  is partly African/Kenyan and he has every right to say so.

Obama certainly was correct in his words.  That said, if he were white from South Africa, the conversation would have been entirely different.

I don’t know of a single person who invoked the region his ancestors or parents were from as being where he is from.  It is usually where they were raised or born.  I say I am from PA or Virginia.  I was born in Virginia on the US Marine Corps base in Quantico; but I lived most of my life in PA.  If I invoked my ancestry it would be Germany, The Netherlands, or even Eastern PA due to being Pennsylvania Dutch.  One of my ancestors was a Dutch admiral in the 1600s, but I find most of my heritage being German.  Also, I have one of the most common surnames from Scotland and Ireland.  You don’t see me claiming any of those as places I am from.

See my reply to LynneA.

Reagan (Irish Protestant)

Reagan's father was an Irish Catholic. He has no Irish protestant heritage. 

Tom, millions upon millions of Americans celebrate St Patrick's day claiming at least a drop of Irish blood.

Why is that?

The Kennedy's made a great deal out of their Irish roots and Catholicism, were you old enough to complain about it?

Which is why I noted the "poor" source and offered an alternative;

Please note the last president the Irish claim, due to his Mother's ancestry.........Obama.

Just before him, Reagan.  Reagan's grandparents and father were Irish Catholic while his mother was not.

She attended the Disciples of Christ church regularly and was active, and very influential, within it; she frequently led Sunday school services and gave the Bible readings to the congregation during the services. A strong believer in the power of prayer , she led prayer meetings at church and was in charge of mid-week prayers when the pastor was out of town. ^[10] Her strong commitment to the church is what induced her son Ronald to become a Protestant Christian rather than a Roman Catholic like his father.  Wiki.

Hence, people can rightfully concur that his Protestant "heritage" came from his mother.

Tom, are you a birther? Do you disbelieve that Obama was born in Hawaii? If so, I have something for you. 

The Hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed Barack Obama's original birth certificate has affirmed again that the document is "real" and denounced "conspiracy theorists" in the so-called "birther" movement for continuing to spread bogus claims about the issue.

"It’s kind of ludicrous at this point," Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the former director of Hawaii's Department of Health, said in a rare telephone interview with NBC.

Fukino, sounding both exasperated and amused, spoke to a reporter in the aftermath of Donald Trump's statements on the NBC Today show last week questioning whether Obama has a legitimate birth certificate.

Trump, who says he is considering a run for president, repeated his claims on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday, saying that "nobody has any information" about the president's birth and that "if he wasn't born in this country, he shouldn't be president of the United States."

No matter what state officials release on the issue, the "birthers" are going to question it, said Fukino. "They’re going to question the ink on which it was written or say it was fabricated," said Fukino. "The whole thing is silly."

As the top Hawaiian official in charge of state health records in 2008, when the issue of Obama's birth first arose, Fukino said she thought she had put the matter to rest. Contacted by NBC, Fukino expanded on previous public statements and made two key points when asked about Trump's recent comments.

The first is that the original so-called "long form" birth certificate — described by Hawaiian officials as a "record of live birth" — absolutely exists, located in a bound volume in a file cabinet on the first floor of the state Department of Health. Fukimo said she has personally inspected it — twice. The first time was in late October 2008, during the closing days of the presidential campaign, when the communications director for the state's then Republican governor, Linda Lingle (who appointed Fukino) asked if she could make a public statement in response to claims then circulating on the Internet that Obama was actually born in Kenya.

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document's validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.

"It is real, and no amount of saying it is not, is going to change that," Fukino said. Moreover, she added, her boss at the time, Lingle — who was backing John McCain for president — would presumably have to be in on any cover up since Fukino made her public comment at the governor's office's request. "Why would a Republican governor — who was stumping for the other guy — hold out on a big secret?" she asked.

Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated "certification of live birth" that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.

The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was "testy" when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president's birth as "fictional nonsense.")

The certification that the campaign received back — which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said. 

"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."

Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama's birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general's office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department's Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named "Obama II, Barack Hussein" as having been born in the state.

In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu's newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama's birth on Aug. 4 of that year.

Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.

But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.

"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

nbcnews

They celebrate not so much to bask in their Irish heritage but as an excuse to drink just as they do Oktoberfest.  I have links to Germany and possibly links to Ireland; and I do not drink at all.

It doesn't matter what his birthplace was; his mother is an American citizen so his status at birth was a Natural-Born American.  I was pointing out that he has stated that he was from Kenya.  I am from Virginia or from PA, depending on whether I talk about my birth state (Virginia) or where I grew up/lived from the age of 6 to the age of 37 with about 3 years where I lived in Oregon taken away, which is 28 years overall.

Bobby and JFK were both assassinated before I was born....heck even before my parents were even married.

Unfortunately many birthers were 'slow' to come around...probably a few hold outs remain.

Plus they tend to be racist morons who are still upset that the US had a black President.

That is unfortunately the truth. 

Totally agree...description of some family members, sadly.

My little sister has in-laws in PA who are like that.    It's rather revealing when people obstinately believe things like that which are objectively false.   And of course they claim not to be racist.....

No surprise that they're Trump voters.

Can also make for trying family interactions  

Between my siblings, we tend to leave politics at our households.  Yet love conversing with their children!  Less heated as we discuss our personal opinions.  Could be out of respect, but my honesty & liberalism makes me the cool Aunt!!

deleted  Did he really think he'd get away with a phony, limp-dick criticism of birtherism and then use that as "credibility" to try to attack the investigation into Shitbag's collusion and obstruction?  

description of some family members, sadly.

Me too.

So being a far right wing propagandist never gets old for you?

It's very true, people can talk about ANYTHING, for hours, without blowing a gasket...except Politics and Religion.

You can't do much better then a mom as a ref. She who controls the dinner table have a lot of authority.

Equating the two issues is ridiculous.

Totally agree! 

Steve Cortes...

Donald Trump and his lackeys and minions and lemmings have said a lot of stupid things in the past few years, but the claim that Democrats are responsible for Trump's birtherism is easily the dumbest thing on that long list. 

First of all, there is no proof that "Democrats" originated the idea that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. In fact, Snopes said that the idea was first created on the far right message board Free Republic. 

The likeliest point of origin we’ve been able to find was a  post  on conservative message board FreeRepublic.com dated 1 March 2008 (which, according to a report in  The Telegraph , was at least a month before Clinton supporters got on the e-mail bandwagon) :

I was told today that Obama swore in on a Koran for his Senate seat. I do not believe he did. Can someone clarify this for me? I am under the impression only a Congressman has so far sworn in on a Koran.

Also that Obama’s mother gave birth to him overseas and then immediately flew into Hawaii and registered his birth as having taken place in Hawaii.

The same rumor was  repeated , with elaborations, four days later on the conservative blog  Ruthless Roundup :

Add to the family history shown in this article that Obama’s mother was allegedly visiting Kenya with Obama’s father in the final months of her pregnancy and was not allowed to board a flight in her late term to return home.

snopes

There were some die hard Clinton supporters known as PUMAS who , late in the primary season, tried to spread similar rumors as Obama neared the nomination. Clinton herself never claimed , publicly or privately, that Obama was not a natural born citizen. 

After Obama was elected birtherism picked up steam and became a staple of the tea party movement of conservatives. In 2009 it reached a frenzy as conservative talk shows and conspiracy sites spread the lie. 

When Trump began to spread his vile conspiracy in 2011, the state of Hawaii had already TWICE officially stated that Obama's original birth certificate had been examined in the state archives. There was no there there. Nonetheless trump continued for 5 more years off and on promoting his "theory". Even after Obama produced a copy of the long form b.c. 

There is no one other than Trump to blame for his stupidity in this matter. 

As for "Russia", Trump's own son replied when offered illegal dirt on Hillary Clinton - "I love it".  Obviously there is something there. In fact , it is highly likely that Mueller will rebuke Trump and his campaign over the Russian connections. 

It's also more than a little ironic that right wing extremists are trying to distract from or defend Trump's collusion with Russia by denigrating racist Birthers like Trump......the King of the Birthers.

So now Real Clear Politics is now right wing extremists?

I was referring to you and the author of the moronic article you seeded.     Cortes is one of the dumber Trump shills around.

crooksandliars

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This Russia mania will never again be brought up without us comparing whoever does to birthers.

I doubt anyone will be surprised if you do.    You have a tendency to make false equivalencies.

It's also interesting that both you and Steve Cortes are admitting that the King of the Birthers is a racist moron.    That's kind of a strange admission for Trump shills.

well see, they can discard the birther nonsense it no longer has any use. This would be squeezing the very last drop of use out of it.

oof that "Democrats" originated the idea that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

Obama's book publisher claimed in 1991 that  Obama was born in Kenya. Wonder where the publisher got the idea from?

That book publisher also admitted he was wrong. You forgot that part. 

Sean's not a birther, he is just pretending to embrace it on NT to create a distraction. 

he is just pretending to embrace it on NT to create a distraction. 

Just trying to correct the distraction you created. 

The editor of the biographical text about Barack Obama which was included in the booklet maintained that the mention of Kenya was an error on her part and was not based on any information provided to her by Obama himself:

Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

“You’re undoubtedly aware of the brouhaha stirred up by Breitbart about the erroneous statement in a client list Acton & Dystel published in 1991 (for circulation within the publishing industry only) that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich wrote. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more.”

snopes

Sean, I dont think your comment is relevant. 

k Obama which was included in the booklet maintained that the mention of Kenya was an error on her part and was not based on any information provided to her by Obama himself

So what? The idea was out there as early as 1991, thanks to Barack Obama's book publisher. It wasn't invented by republicans in 2008. 

And sure, that's the type of mistake people make all the time, attributing the wrong country of birth to someone out of thin air. The idea that she just mistakenly  made it up out of whole cloth and added it to his biography is as preposterous as the rest of the birther conspiracy.  OF all the countries to make an innocent mistake about, she just happened to invent that he was born in  Kenya and no one caught it. What a crazy coincidence.

I dont think you have ever made less sense on this forum. 

So, just out of the blue, she assumed Obama wa born in Kenya.  That's kind of hard to believe.........for anyone willing to look without their rose colored glasses on, of course.

So, just out of the blue, she assumed Obama wa born in Kenya.

Obviously she had done some research about his father which is where she got the mistaken idea he was born in Kenya. A book from 1991 is not the end all be all authority on his life. I would think the Hawaii newspapers that carried his name the month he was born are far more trustworthy. It would take a very long incredibly detailed plan to have pulled that one off, you know, arrange for papers to list a boy that was really born in Kenya but later would be raised to run for President. That or a time machine. 

Birtherism:  A political agenda of lies tinged with racism, fostered by liars and racists.

Russia Investigation:  Still being investigated, with those 'caught up in it' thus far, done so because of lying to investigators.

Its all about the money.  Trump doesn't have any that is rightfully his.  The money came from somewhere else and belongs to someone else.

There is no comparison whatsoever between "birtherism" , which was a racist conspiracy theory, and the Russian investigation, which is the legitimate product of evidence gathering by US law enforcement. 

Some people will believe anything, and believing this so-called equivalence is laughable. 

Another batshit crazy "comparison".....

Nobody else is listening to what the left has to say so they’re basically just a bunch of nuts talking to each other. The left’s fake outrage over Putin is laughable. His meddling in the election didn’t do anything but expose Hillary meddling in the election herself by trying to rig the primary. It also exposed collusion between the media and the DNC to help her win. Given the left’s penchant for political correctness (i.e. limiting free speech), socialism, control over the media, stalking/harassing/attacking their opponents, brain washing (employer forced sensitivity training to accept gender confusion as normal), atheism, and generally thinking that offending them should be a crime, they could not only be better buddies with Putin than Trump, they could be buddies with Stalin. 

Bizarre commentary. We don't want an adversary foreign regime trying to choose our president for us. 

Why that is difficult for some people to understand is a puzzler. 

So, who did they force to change their vote, in this alternate reality you seem to think we all live in?

Repetitive advertising does change opinions. 

The idea that the stolen email releases had no effect whatsoever on the vote is just not realistic. 

The idea that the stolen email releases had no effect whatsoever on the vote is just not realistic.

Particularly since the Trump campaign changed their ad strategy shortly after Russians accessed the DNC analytics.

Bizarre commentary. We don't want an adversary foreign regime trying to choose our president for us. 

He didn’t. As you will recall, Hillary’s ally buried the story with nonstop stories about Trump grabbing pussies.

Why that is difficult for some people to understand is a puzzler. 

It’s no more difficult than understanding people won’t buy chicken feces just because it’s labeled chicken salad. 

buried the story

That's funny. Not only was it not buried, Republicans are still talking about it 18 months after the election as if it justified voting for an unqualified monumental narcissist and accused sexual predator.

Repetitive advertising does change opinions.  The idea that the stolen email releases had no effect whatsoever on the vote is just not realistic. 

Nonsense. The overwhelming number of people who voted for Trump would have never voted for Hillary anyway. She didn’t just drop out of the sky yesterday. She has been lying and conniving for 40 years so people had plenty of reason to despise her. Plus, she had the second lowest polling rating in history (number one is Trump). I’m glad her lying ass finally got caught with her hand in the cookie jar.

Nonsense. The overwhelming number of people who voted for Trump would have never voted for Hillary anyway. She didn’t just drop out of the sky yesterday. She has been lying and conniving for 40 years so people had plenty of reason to despise her. Plus, she had the second lowest polling rating in history (number one is Trump). 

Everyone who voted for Trump did not share your hatred of Hillary Clinton prior to the campaign. The DNC emails and the Podesta emails were in the news every day for weeks. It is absurd to believe that such negative media did not effect votes. 

That's funny. Not only was it not buried, Republicans are still talking about it 18 months after the election as if it justified voting for an unqualified monumental narcissist and accused sexual predator.

Of course it was buried. And the choice was between “an unqualified monumental narcissist and accused sexual predator” or an incompetent, lying, conniving sack of feces with a 40 year history of scandals who operated a pay for play scheme, lied about Benghazi to support a re-election narrative, and had a secret server so she could avoid the Freedom of Information Act and congressional inquiries. To top it off, she was exposed trying to rig the primary. Democrats can’t smell her but everybody else did. 

Everyone who voted for Trump did not share your hatred of Hillary Clinton prior to the campaign. The DNC emails and the Podesta emails were in the news every day for weeks. It is absurd to believe that such negative media did not effect votes. 

And it was drowned out by eight times as many Trump pussy grabbing stories. Even so, if she got hoisted by her own petard, then good. 

"incompetent (your opinion), lying (your opinion), conniving sack of feces (your opinion) with a 40 year history of scandals (husbands scandals) who operated a pay for play scheme (bullshit), lied about Benghazi (your opinion) to support a re-election narrative (more bullshit, Obama called it a terrorist act the day after it happened), and had a secret server so she could avoid the Freedom of Information Act and congressional inquiries (your opinion, fact: it was a private server for private emails just as many prior Secretaries of State used, it was not kept "secret" as you claim)."

Most of your word salad is straight from the misinformation campaign designed and funded by the Kremlin. You did not actually use a single fact in your entire paragraph, just meaningless drivel and baseless opinion.

To use the far-rights battle cry, PROVE IT!!! After 9 Benghazi investigations and a couple of investigations into the CLINTON charities, (which passed with flying colors unlike trump's "charity" Clinton's received high marks) and spending millions on them, (how many? who knows, they put a non-disclosure rule in at Benghazi I) the right has found NOTHING.

I didn't dislike her because she was a crook despite all the propaganda, I disliked her because she was a professional politician, spoke with a soft southern accent in her home state and only in her home state, she's a MODERATE CONSERVATIVE and likes politics, power, money and big business too much.

But compared to trump, she's a angel who I don't think Putin could manipulate so easily. 

To use the far-rights battle cry, PROVE IT!!! After 9 Benghazi investigations and a couple of investigations into the CLINTON charities, (which passed with flying colors unlike trump's "charity" Clinton's received high marks) and spending millions on them, (how many? who knows, they put a non-disclosure rule in at Benghazi I) the right has found NOTHING.

And after all the drum beating about Russian collusion, Democrats have the same NOTHING.

And after all the drum beating about Russian collusion, Democrats have the same NOTHING.

Nothing?  The first source is BEFORE the latest indictments.  I think you need to look up the definition of 'nothing' and get back to us.

vox

To be as clear about this as possible, Mueller’s investigation has absolutely uncovered evidence of crimes:

• Michael Flynn, former national security adviser and a key Trump campaign surrogate, pleaded guilty to making false statements to federal investigators in December.
• Rick Gates, a top aide on the Trump campaign and a longtime business partner of Paul Manafort, pleaded guilty to false statements and one count of conspiracy .
• George Papadopoulos, a foreign policy adviser on the campaign, pleaded guilty to false statements .
• Alexander van der Zwaan, a London-based Dutch attorney, pleaded guilty to making false statements about his contacts with Gates and an unnamed Ukrainian.
• 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies have been indicted on conspiracy charges, and some on identity theft charges, related to Russian social media and hacking efforts.
• Richard Pinedo, a California resident, has pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge related to the Russian indictments.
• Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign chair, is facing two separate indictments — one in DC about conspiracy, money laundering, false statements, and failure to disclose foreign assets; and one in Virginia about tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.

One can interpret this pattern of behavior in a few ways. One is that Mueller is steadily putting in place the building blocks of a huge, mafia-style takedown that will end with Manafort “flipping” under pressure and new indictments coming against members of Donald Trump’s family and damning evidence about Trump himself. Another would be that when placed under a microscope by an aggressive prosecutor, several Trump aides turn out to have been involved in financial malfeasance only loosely related to the Trump campaign and Trump himself did nothing wrong. But there is definitely evidence of crimes — including some serious ones — by a range of figures, some Russian and some Americans and some working at a very high level in Trumpworld.

Don't like that source? Enjoy.

foxnews

wsj

Say, you know what, the people who are screaming about Clinton ALL THE TIME are on the right, I'm afraid. You just can't let it go and the articles you read tell you "stuff" like the "Democrats are going nuts because..." the right said or did this. All imagination, I'm afraid. If not for the right we'd only hear about her at this lecture or function every month or so and that would be it and that would be fine.

Speaking of Clinton there's far less evidence that she did anything wrong then there is trump is in Putin's pocket.

Speaking of Clinton there's far less evidence that she did anything wrong then there is trump is in Putin's pocket.

And I think it’s exactly the opposite. 

Fortunately, Hillary has been scrapped off the bottom of the national shoe.