Fixing the opioid crisis requires the two things Congress hates most: Bipartisanship and government spending
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
Practically every community in America, and most families, are facing the still-growing opioid epidemic that is tearing at the soul of our health and wellbeing.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates
15 Americans die each day from opioid-related overdoses, and research suggests that misuse of prescription opioids is a risk factor for heroin use. It is thus critical that we find policy solutions that both turn the tide on opioid misuse and addiction now and make it less likely that we repeat in the long-term the same mistakes that led to the crisis.
To do so successfully, we must first fully understand the many fundamental drivers of this crisis; there is no single root cause of the epidemic, and multiple segments of society bear some responsibility.
As former policymakers committed to finding lasting solutions, we recognize the sometimes unintended consequences of well-intentioned policy. The leading example is the overprescribing practices that began 20 years ago: At that time, physicians — and patients, hospitals, insurers and the rest of the care system — were introduced to the concept of treating pain as a fifth vital sign (in addition to pulse, blood pressure, body temperature, and respiration).
As attitudes about treating pain began to shift, the demand for pain medication within the health care community dramatically increased and the drug supply chain responded. Treating pain quickly became a cornerstone in medical training and education and resulted in new prescribing guidelines. Well-meaning doctors, following the new standards but not aware of the long-term addictive effects of these drugs, prescribed opioid medications in greater doses and for longer periods in order to achieve best care for their patients, as they were trained to do. This “best practice” at the time unfortunately helped catalyze the dreadful epidemic our country now confronts, both by increasing risks to patients and by contributing to a massive increase in supply and, subsequently, opportunities for illegal use of family members’ or acquaintances’ prescriptions.
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Well-meaning doctors, following the new standards but not aware of the long-term addictive effects of these drugs, prescribed opioid medications in greater doses and for longer periods in order to achieve best care for their patients, as they were trained to do. This “best practice” at the time unfortunately helped catalyze the dreadful epidemic “
yea
BULLSHIT!
some, may have bin stored in the nativity of nigh eve, But majority , in worthlessness Valued for not having a true value, as Big Pharma caused some serious harma to our society , yet again, as remindful of Big Tobacco , and it’s denied
addict ability, till addicting abilities were no longer an option.,
no longer determined by buy those As addictions don’t often allow choices to be made, once habits have been formed, buy Drs Bought, and brought forth, five times as moored, as the more monies funneled the way of the prescribers, the more subscribers, to an old addiction , under the depiction, of , but it’s prescribed buy my bought Dock door, Who couldn’t seem to afford. A peep whole fore peepwholes to C, what was certainly Well Known by Many of these pharmasuticle Thinking so acceptable when herd by the herd hearsed together buy a grapevine and start an orchard of produced produce, produced to market to MAKE MONIES , via making addicted addicts, junkies
as not to difficult to sell a product, that people actually kill and die for , as it has ability to seize some, until they deceased no more to Live, live, in concert with others pitting mosh a gainst the new mush
for the latest Push
these Pushers did hold a door open , till minds shut
their is NO FINE OR JUDGEMENT capable of redeeming , what they deemed acceptable
all there is to it
Congress doesn't hate spending money, it's just how the money is spent. If it could help the American public it's a problem. If it is on defense the sky is the limit.
"To do so successfully, we must first fully understand the many fundamental drivers of this crisis; there is no single root cause of the epidemic, and multiple segments of society bear some responsibility."
If there is NO single root cause of the problem, how can one FULLY understand, and how many meaningless laws are needed to be passed to stop it ?
Since we can't lock down the "Root Cause" that is.
As far as this Society partially to blame, I'd put the entire blame on the "Individual" that chooses to do what they do, which would also be to blame "Society" as a whole, since each "Individual" is part of "Society" !
The only law that MAY stop this issue, is a total ban on Opioids, but we all know how well the Ban on "Illegal drugs" has gone so far.
People are surviving things that would have killed them years ago and living longer and we hurt. Just let people have what they need. They will get something anyway. Let us have stuff that has some quality control, priced low and people don't become criminals because they hurt.
Marijuana was maligned with erroneous claims of it being a "gateway" drug, yet opioids have been prescribed by the truck load and actually do have a direct link to future heroin use. While letting people "have what they need" sounds good, pushing opioids has caused an epidemic of unprecedented proportions.
Exactly!
Folks just like what they like, and want more !
Whose fault is that again ?
A very small portion of those addicted to opioids initially sought them out, the vast majority were prescribed their use by a doctor which is why they thought everything would be okay. In the last two decades pharmaceutical companies have pushed their use because they were an effective treatment for pain and made them tons of money. The problem is that early on they didn't tell people you could get physically addicted to them within 4 days of use where you would go through physical withdrawal pains after stopping use. That's not a choice, it's chemical slavery.
I was prescribed Opioids after my surgery. First time I became constipated, I ditched the shit and went to Tylenol III, Advil or Aspirin. I wasn't gonna sit on the pot trying to dig it out for hours.
Ya see, some folks actually can tuff it out. Others just want instant relief.....no matter what.
It's ACTUALLY an "Individual Societal thing, thing" dontchyknow !
Good for you, others were either not so lucky to be afflicted with constipation that convinced them to get rid of the prescription the doctor prescribed them or they went back to get other drugs to help with their "opioid induced constipation" like "Movantik". The pharmaceuticals don't make much off over the counter pain medications, but they make a "butt load" off their patented opioids and the drugs they've developed to treat the side effects of their patented drugs.
So while you may want to chalk it up to personal responsibility, why don't you try and tell that to some mother or grandmother with kids or grandkids in the car who is out trying to buy street heroin because they had a broken wrist a year back and were prescribed opioids that they took as per their doctor and are now suffering major physical withdrawals since the doctor won't renew the prescriptions. These people feel entrapped, and rightly so. They often weren't informed of the risks or assumed they were minor considering it was their trusted doctor prescribing them, what they didn't know at the time, was basically pill form heroin.
That has codeine.
That that I am against it, as I believe when needed, it is needed.
I don't have time for details about the whole situation as my personal experience runs contrary to the common problems. Later I will post a thread at the bottom.
That would be wonderful. however I dont know that that really is the case for some. I have a good friend who has Muscular Dystrophy, he's been on opiods for many many years he is trying to get off of them now is having exstream heart rates and this has been going on for about two months now. His doctor even seems petty concerned and is sending him for all kinds of testing. But, he never had any heart problems until detoxing form opiates.
Not to mention the mood altering properties are missed much longer and may lead to relapsing.
IMO: these are not good drugs to be addicted to for damn sure. But,WTF is ?
Yep...… Better than the uber hard stuff they prescribe. One Tylenol III every other morning, and Advil or aspirin to supplement later, worked for me. I can take it.
Being fucked up all the time, should convince people not to over due it….period.
Unless they like it that is.
And yes.....Folks actually DO KNOW the difference between fucked up and normal.
But, isn’t Tylenol III a prescribed strength of Tylenol over the counter Tylenol ?
also a narcotic ?
I don't see Tylenol III being pushed on the streets as a great high.
"Hey Joe.....I got some Tylenol III. Wanna get high ? "
"It is the codeine in prescription Tylenol 3 that can create dependency when used improperly or without a prescription. "
" Surprisingly, overdose and death may, in some cases, arise sooner from the acetaminophen, than the codeine. This is because it is present in higher amounts per dose, thusly, in situations of abuse, a person may reach the toxic threshold for this drug sooner than they would for codeine."
Hell....even simple "Aspirin" can be dangerous if over done.
I'm allergic to codeine. Makes me sicker than a dog
me either although I do wonder if it is also additive. It seems most narcotics are.
Of course it's addictive! It's an opiate
Addiction is ALL on the "User" to me.
While I agree addition mainly does fall to the one addicted perhaps sometimes other factors perhaps should be included: For your consideration:
.
Funny I'm the same way with marijuana.
After 200 years or so, you'd think people would already know what can be addictive.
Do we really still need warning labels on beach balls too ?
"Don't put in mouth and inflate. May cause suffocation" !
The problem is No One thinks THEY can get addicted, the truth is most can.
......................................
Because addiction is an internal chemical thing as well as a mental choice thing.
Once a chemical is introduced to the system and they body gets used to the chemicals then the body's chemistry adjusts and gets what we call addicted. Because the body wants what it wants. It becomes almost like a bodily function. Addiction is so sad. It really steals a piece of you.
Unfortunately IF it was all just a thought to use a drug it wouldn't be called addition it'd be called a choice.
That is a problem.
For the "Individuals".
Because I was still editing ya might check my last post again.
There's more to addiction than meets the eye.
thanks
Its also a problem for society in general , lost wages in the economy, more healthcare needed, (many times on the backs of tax payers) increased theft, robberies, rapes, domestic abuse, auto crash deaths, and I'm sure there's plenty more.
Oooops…..Sorry !
"Once a chemical is introduced to the system and they body gets used to the chemicals then the body's chemistry adjusts and gets what we call addicted."
I'm one of those that don't like walking around in a haze. A couple of days of that, and everything else that came with it with the "Stuff" they gave me, I had had enough "Stupid".
LOL
Evidently, Not everyone is that smart.
In reality like I said the pills dont do that to everyone. You are actually one of the lucky and smart ones. Congratulations !
I think with me.. it really wasn't about smarts... but more the fact I just DIDN'T LIKE IT !
To each his own I suppose.
True, As I look around at americans, it seems to me that most of us have a drug of choice, be it caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, food, sex, gambling, adrenaline, pot, or hard drugs. Even religion releases chemicals in the brain that produce euphoric endorphins. So yep: To each his own.
Thankful for myself I was able to cut the addiction cord(s) to the addictions that were quickly killing me, alcohol and tobacco caffeine and cocaine wasn't my friends either and those ones are long gone as well. Unfortunately and fortunately, I still enjoy a little marijuana and don't plan on giving that one up, It's non lethal and it replaces the others !
As you can see I have a history so I do know a little of which I speak. I'm so thankful my mind and body is still pretty much intact (How, I have NO idea) But, I have grown and moved on for the most part now and dont plan on any return "trips"..lol
And, thanks for the interaction, I enjoyed it. Have a nice day
My vice is Cigs and Coffee....Coffee, coffee. LOL !
I pay for my own medical, which hasn't happened yet, not to include my surgery for a broken off heel. At my age, I'm not watching my weight anymore.
You have a GREAT day 321steve.
I read an article about the opioid crisis in West Virginia that said WV has a shortage of foster parents for children whose biological families are unfit due to addiction. The sheer numbers of children in need of safe homes has overwhelmed the foster system. As high as the financial costs are, the human costs surpass them.
I saw that as well, maybe not the same article but the same thing happening unfortunately, I doubt it's confined to WV though.
It's probably not just WV. This article was in a WV newspaper, so that was the focus.
I watched the "Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia" in 2009. It followed a family living with drug addiction. One of the women was filmed using cocaine the hospital after giving birth. She was allowed to take the baby home. This is heartbreaking for everyone involved.
Most West Virginians think the Whites are utter trash. They play up the trash factor for ratings. The cocaine thing might have been legit, but I don't think it's typical of what would happen in most hospitals there.
Sad.
Hey Perrie ..
I live in pain, day in day out - yet I am still thankful for my feet hitting the floor every morning .. albeit some mornings I groan and say 'Ugghhh this is gonna be a long day' … a wee bit of the 'erb in my peanut butter : ) wa la
I am going to sound all gloom and doom here, but there are no lasting solution to 'fix' addiction … there is NO legislation that can be written, or even money that can be thrown at it that can solve the problem - the government can spend money to send individuals to rehab instead of locking them up - but until the individual is ready to stop … it is all a waste of time.. offering alternatives (methadone type stuff) will work for some .. but not all..
For Pete's sake .. 'we' are drugging our children and telling them a pill will make them normal [do you even know what normal is?].. this pill it is magic and you will no longer suffer emotional pain .. if you still suffer, 'we' can add yet another pill - why wouldn't some individuals look for the removal of all pain? For some, perhaps death is worth the risk if one can become comfortably numb!?!
Doctors experiment .. now the theory is that pain is cause by over active nerves .. so if the nerves can be silenced - TA DA NO PAIN .. once again toss a pill at it.. I finally asked the neurologist 'why I am making appointments, when your only answer is to try another pill..' I have nerve damage - am beginning to lose my hands [tears] ………………………… there has to be a way to release the pressure on my nerves that is not pill related! Even after my stroke .. doc kept me in such a fog with pills - I finally had to quit taking them .. amazingly in a matter of hours the fog began to lift!
Alas 'we'll are just lab rats!
Okay I will put Soapbox back in the stall...
Colour...I'm so sorry. I wish I had a magic wand to take it all away
Thank you Mrs. Giggles .. was not my intent to whine. I just get frustrated at how pharmaceutical companies seem to be doing a doctors job for them - no doc seems to be 'willing' to try alternatives to pills...
I know you're not whining. <<<Colour>>>
Thank you for understanding...
Dear Friend Color Me Free: Through site private notes, and then by personal emails if I can be of any help on the pastoral care side please do let me know.
All is in confidence.
Your values, beliefs and life choices respected.
Peace, Abundant Blessings and Best Possible Outcomes Medically.
Enoch.
Thank you dear Enoch .. your words of wisdom on various subject I have found to be very valuable as well as comforting to me.
Peace..
My mother has had some good results from acupuncture. After two shattered ankles, she had ligament and nerve damage, she was in pain all the time. She had a very painful bad bone spur on her heel @ the same time. The acupuncture helped and her bone spur pain was completely eliminated and the nerve pain from her ankles was lowered to tolerable.
I've had acupuncture for two different problems, both related to shoulder/arm pain. I could tell when I left the first treatment it had improved. It felt so tender, but better. Each time I improved and after a few times I was fine. CBD cream or vapes are also helpful to some, I have used the creams and it helped, but that pain wasn't so bad to start with.
Hello Dulay .. so thankful your mom found relief. I have had acupressure done, and I do believe I experienced short term relief - there is not a 'recommended' acupuncturist in my area .. so I have not tried it as of yet...
I have an appoint with a new doc on September 25th - the doc that did the vein surgeries on my legs referred me to him .. I am thinking positive thoughts : )
I feel a bit embarrassed having opened up like I did .. feel like I need to give a quick run down on how I got to where I am ..
October 27 of 2007 a careless forklift driver and a dear friend changed my life forever - forklift dropped a load of steel on me .. that my dear friend saw coming (I was welding on a beam) rather than yell a warning .. he ran over and grabbed me, dragging me forward so I was laid out flat when the steel hit my back .. most likely saving my life as well as being the reason I am mobile to this day..
October 29, 2010 .. blood clots in my legs, lungs .. brain … flipped my world upside down ..
every time I think I am close to getting an answer .. without fail thus far I have been smacked in the face with, there is nothing that can be done or do not know what is causing 'it' .... I feel like a prisoner in my own body some days. Yet I know I am blessed to be mobile - blessed to have a functioning brain - blessed to have an amazing support system and 2 great sons - when I cannot get out and be with people, I have a great place to come .. where a few like me at least a lil bit : )
As I told Mrs. Giggles I get frustrated when speaking about doctors and pharmaceuticals - pills are some Lord of the Ring kind of magic fix .. yet no one foresaw a problem with supplying [basically] synthetic heroin to mask pain? .. heroin and weed are illegal - but a doctor can supply you with something far worse legally? Makes me want to scream..
edibles have been a savior!!!
I am always straight up front with docs .. if your answer is 'try this pill' there is no reason to continue the appointment...
Peace
My wife and I started on tart cherry juice yesterday. Me for a nagging torn ligament in my shoulder and my wife for a bone spur on her hip. Our NP suggested it and we are going to be her Guinee pigs. It is supposed to help inflammation and nerve damage. We got concentrate so it's 1 tbls. twice a day. I'm going to try it with Grey Goose since I don't like sweet...
I do have to say HOWEVER, prednisone saved my wife's eyesight. She has temporal arteritis and they put her on heavy doses of prednisone to reduce the swelling. She was a day away of loosing the sight in her right eye. It WORKED and her eyesight is almost back to normal. So pills DO work in the right circumstances.
On the rocks? : )
Please keep me informed .. my fingers are crossed you get results .. you 2 are my Guinee pigs now : ) .. [laughter : ]
Hi Color,
First of all, I am so sorry that you live in chronic pain. I know of a few people who do and I can see how utterly debilitating it is. Also, I know from these same people that edibles have been a savior.
I will say that I semi-disagree with you here:
Obviously, we can get docs to stop over prescribing. Yes, individuals have to want to get help, but if I am going to spend my money, I would rather spend it on rehab then incarceration, where we turn a junkie into a hardened criminal.
I'm not sure what other meds you are talking about when you are talking about our children feeling "normal".
What a blessing her body responded so quickly .. Prednisone is a corticosteroid that has amazing healing properties when used properly .. I have allergy related asthma and have landed myself in the hospital a time or 2 when I have gotten careless and not used my inhalers as directed .. first thing they give me is Prednisone!
Yes pills do work .. I take blood thinners, high blood pressure med, my thyroid pill and an anti seizure med for nerve pain - I have become a minimalist ..
No argument from me .. yet, in fairness to many doctors .. it is not over prescribing that causes an addiction - addictive personalities become addicted be it one pill or 200 pills … 20 some years ago my moms friend shattered her ankle - was given Percocet, never used them but a couple times … her adult daughter took the pills and when caught, it was too late .. I could not agree more - rehab is a far better place for the addict than incarceration .. I am just saying that the laws cannot make one quit, be it drinking, drugs, gambling or even sex for that matter - it is a personal choice (I lived it with my brother - he is now sober nearly 20 years, but it was not the law that stopped him even after 9 DUI's.. 5 treatment programs and half way houses)
I was never directing drugging children at you personally.. more as a general statement.. and I am thinking about attention deficit children and the drugs that even some schools try to 'encourage' parents to put their children on - anti depressants in young people even as young as 9 (my mom had a daycare) I recall lil Christie telling me her doctor told her mom the pills she was taking would make her feel normal .. she went from fun loving to almost drooling on herself..
Elements of society seem to feel that pills are the answer, and everyone else is to blame...
I admit I was taking my High Horse Soapbox out for a ride this morning when I made my comment .. I never intended my rant to be directed at you
Unfortunately, getting docs to prescribe fewer narcotics has forced addicts to turn to more dangerous street sources - heroine with fentanyl or cardenafil, etc.
I'm not saying that docs should overprescribe, but I don't think that reducing prescriptions will be very effective.
Like you, I'd rather pay for rehab than prison.
I agree with Colour about addictive personalities. I've had narcotics for back pain and after a c-section. I never got hooked. In fact, I hated the out-of-control feeling they gave me. I never finished the prescriptions, or even took a tenth of the pills in the bottle. But I have extended family members who have lost everything to their addictions, and I remember being concerned when my son kept asking for morphine days after his appendectomy. The nurse talked him into ibuprofen, but she gave me a look that told me she was concerned, too.
Hi Color,
First, no harm, no foul. I didn't take what you said personally, but I thank you for being so kind in your response to me.
Opioid addiction is far more complex than willpower. Genetics predispose us to how our brain responds to them. Same thing with alcoholism. That is why it is so common to see both in families.
But opioids actually physically and chemically change the brain, the speed of which depends on the individual. Here is an interesting article about that. It really is a must read:
As for prescribing drugs for our kids with ADHD or ADD, as a teacher, I can tell you that I agree with you totally. It is a quick fix for a more complex problem.
Hi Sandy,
As I said to CMF, how an individual responds to opioids really depends on genetics, kind of drugs, duration of drugs, and brain chemistry. If you missed the article I directed her to, here it is again:
Thank you for the link .. I have saved it in order to read in the morning..
Addiction runs in my family .. on both sides - I try to always guard against placing myself at risk and do have concerns that one or both of my sons have inherited addictive traits … conversation is always happening at my house - my youngest sons sperm donor chose drugs over family .. showing up just often enough to rob us blind if I let him get too close to the house .. I had no choice but to be honest with (not so) lil man at a rather young age, I decided that the best thing I could do for him was to never lie to him.. nothing about addiction boils down to will power, at least not in my opinion...
Thanks again for the link, I look forward to reading it and hopefully learning more about the problem so many face..
Peace...
I finally got a chance to sit down and read the article .. I almost copy pasted parts here .. good read - thank you again!
A phrase made famous in Philly back in the days of ABSCAM (a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) sting operation in the late 1970s and early 1980s that led to the convictions of seven members of the United States Congress, among others) … fits the foot-dragging in conjunction with the opiod crisis and others …
"BULLSHIT WALKS AND MONEY TALKS!"
Very true Mac!
lately my money only says one thing .... BYE !
Meant to put this up earlier as mentioned somewhere up above.
Okay, this opoid situation confounds me, just based on my own experiences. One day I did a pretty good job of making a mess of my left lower leg. Ankle split into 3 pieces. complete radial fracture of the tibia and fibula destroyed. I forgot how many pieces. A bunch.
I remember in the ER there were 3 big guys. Football player size. Also, a doctor and a couple nurses. I was given a couple pills and a couple shots of stuff. Then I had to hook my arms around 2 of the big guys while the 3rd one began pulling my leg and the doctor gave directions while feeling the break as they tried to get break somewhat set. After a while the doctor and nurses put some pneumatic cast like device on my leg.
After a while I was carted up to my room and hook up a an unlimited morphine drip. Once I realized it was morphine I told them I don't do well on morphine and they switched to dilaudid. Also, unlimited drip.
So I was hooked up to that for the rest of that night, all the next day and night and part of the following morning.
Then I was carted downstairs to the OR. You know how they tell you to count backwards from 100? I don't think I reached 99.
Then while under there was very loud crystal music of many genres, but mild, except for some of the classical stuff. They were a little brave with that.
After waking up, I discovered what happened. To put it all back together a long "nail" was driven down the center on the tibia joining upper and lower parts together. Anchored at the bottom and anchored at the top with screws. To start the nail, they took my knee apart. Cut the lower tendon holding the patella in place. Moved that out of the way and whatever else. Drove the nail in, anchored everything, screwed the ankle back together and zipped me up.
Good amount of tissue damage. The leg was a good bit larger in diameter than normal.
Back in the room, hooked back up to the dilaudid. Asked for a cup of black coffee. Next day showed me how to use a walker and a couple hours later back home.
No more dilauded.
Got a 2 week supply of oxycontin. Each pill ran out quite a while before time for the next. When that bottle was done, I was switched over to oxycodone. The pills had that same problem of losing effectiveness a good while before time for the next.
I was switched back and forth a couple more times like that, then switched over to something as good as life saver candy. I think it was called tramadal. Something like that. Useless. The leg was still quite a bit larger in diameter than normal and something as effective as life saver candy was supposed to help.
I was angry. Angry for a long time about. Did I have a sense of addiction? No. I did have a lot of pain. What do they call it? Root pain? That and they life saver candy to help. Still angry about it. at least it is not as bad anymore.
But thank god the puritans saved me from myself.
All too often there is never any middle ground.
Dave,
Now that is a cautionary tale and thank you for being so open in sharing that with us.
After a really bad car accident, I was given tramadal for my back and neck pain. The drug made me trip. No kidding. Right in the middle of Macy's no less. Good thing I was with my sister.
Chemicals are tricky things. How they will react with our chemistry is unforeseeable.. like the drugs which can either give you somnolence or insomnia. How can that be, yet we know that it's common.
Here's an idea. Why don't we stop ads on TV for drugs? Our doctors know what we need... why do we need to go in and ask them for this drug or that? The simple answer is that drug companies are businesses and probably we should rethink that, from a consumer standpoint.
Yep Perrie,
They screwed up on the way too conservative side.
Interesting on how the tramadal affected you. I stopped taking it as it did nothing.
I agree with the tv ad issue. How can anyone consider big pharma ads more worthy than cigarette ads? Really? Who came up with that idea?
Thanks
Read the side effects here:
Shockingly, it is a common side effect.
And you might find this an interesting read:
Tramadol vs. Hydrocodone
Funny you should bring up cigarettes.... read today's featured article. Apparently, there are more side effects of cigarettes than we thought!
I saw that cigarette but article on the front page after posting here. Funny.
I'll read it later today.
Those tramadal writes ups are odd based on my experience. It served no purpose for me.
I am not sure how far pharacokinetics, but I would think by now, or at least a decade ago, they should be able determine what will and won't work for somebody rather that rule of thumb best guessing.
Brain chemistry is very complicated, far more than ever expected. We have uptake sensors, and everyone has a different amount of them and they also don't uptake at the same rate. Take me and tramadol. Apparently, I have some sort of brain chemistry that converts that drug into a hallucinogenic, while you didn't (btw.. it did kill my pain, but who wants to trip every day.. well maybe some people might, LOL).
On the other hand, I can't take most opioids since I am allergic to them. I can only use Fentanyl, which is man-made. It works fine, but only for short periods of time, and apparently shorter than most (I found this out while not passing the mother of kidney stones). Body chemistry is everything, so these outcomes are unclear.
I tried Tramadol and it had very little to no affect on my pain, and made me too dizzy to even walk without assistance at the time. My Father also tried it and had the same reaction. So for me, Tramadol is not an option.
I am not sure how familiar you are with pharmacokinetcs. For a while I worked with the development team on a pharmacy system which had a pharmacokinetics plug in.
Pretty amazing stuff.
Yet, like anything the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Here is an example using Tramadol (finally spelled it right):
This is just an example of this one drug with regard to certain analysis.
Obviously, money goes to the squeaky wheel. Also, obviously, though opiods have long been a concern, for decades, not enough pure science has been focused on the issue with regards to the problems facing us.
Now it is a big deal and in the headlines, yet tools have been available to pinpoint and spend time researching, very little effort has been paid. Right now that missing understanding is a mystical black box. Result being people either getting over treated or under treated.
Tools exist, both on the analysis side and reporting side.
Maybe it is time to focus and act on this area for the drugs of concern for which ones should be used and how.
JMO
I don't know. Based on what I replied to Perrie with and also LiveSciense, it is an opiod, though 20% of it's ingredients qualify as such.
Got to look into it deeper, but have a couple meetings for a while.
You now Raven Wing, based on the few replies here, everybody pretty much backs up the info I provided Perrie regarding the pharacokinetics of Tramadol. basically, they don't know jack about it, yet no one is afraid to prescribe it.
I could have had a glass of water and had a better effect than taking that stuff.
The government used Vietnam vets as guinea pigs for a study on heroin addiction back in the early 70s.
Anyone surprised?
I had no idea that tramadol was addictive. Thank goodness I had an adverse reaction to it.
And I have to tell you that all my docs know I have a seizure disorder, so knowing that the pain doc gave me this prescription, goes to show how little docs pay attention to their patients' charts.. which is very scary.
Same here. And saved myself from the terrible dizziness if caused me. When I told my Doctor about it he seemed surprised that it had so little effect other than to make me so dizzy.
As I said, if one really wants to know about a medication they can ask a Pharmacist and get better informed than with a Doctor. However, even a Pharmacist will not know exactly how a medication will react on everyone's body, but, they have better access to up to date information on medications than Doctors do. And there is also the Internet that can provide some information on various medications according to the latest test results. But, there too, one has to choose their source of information carefully. If I am still in doubt I ask the Pharmacist.
sorry, left this link out from above:
Absolutely agree Raven Wing.
The pharmacist really does know more about the medications. I must admit in this particular case researching and consulting with people was pretty much beyond me for several months. I wanted to contest the prescribed med tramadol, but to be honest it was easier to toss it and deal with it. The next option was, I think a "pain specialist'"? Something like that? It was beyond me to go drivin all over the area, sitting in waiting rooms. I just bit the bullet and hate the medical profession to this day. Especially when they have the tools available to prevent the situation in the first place. Science tells us where the research is needed. Get the sense emotionally driven politics will steer the direction instead.
What made that even worse was the one size fits all mentality of the time. One of Perrie's posts mentions how complex and varying the human body can be, the brain in particular. No concept back then. I was more a situation of a black box data in data out analysis rather than trapping the data as it enters the black box and finding out the different gates it may go through on it's journey through the black box, THEN analyzing the varying results coming out.
Hope that makes sense.
Hi Phoneyx,
Yes both big pharm and doctors are businesses, and I realize that one needs to make a profit and one needs to make a living ( I have a daughter taking her MCATs now), but 1. big pharm can still make a hefty profit on their meds without being pushers and they need oversight and 2. docs don't have to do what big pharm wants.
MCATs ? wow ! that's amazing !! i wish her the best ! you definitely must be proud !
i agree with you, i just don't see it going over well - it's all about the money and profits, now you are proposing to limit that, i'm sure that will upset some people especially if the government is involved and they will see it as "socialism" or some other term they hate just because government is involved.
Doctors also get "perks" for doing what big pharm wants - lots of handshakes going on behind the scenes.
Several years ago, opiates became part of my pain management toolbox. I would get 20 pills a month with several refills. This worked well for me as I would never develop high tolerance.
Fast forward a few years....... New prescribing guidelines issued by the government began to tell me and my doctor that chronic pain patients needed a full month supply, piss-testing, pill counts and no refills. Bottom line, I couldn’t get 20 pills a month with refills. But I could easily get a bottle of 120.
I’ve spent the last couple years removing opiates from my pain management toolbox. Prescribing guidelines were giving me access to insane amounts of pills and when you’re in chronic pain, a pill is a very tempting “easy button”. So, I was taking more pills.
I seems from from my perspective, government issued guidelines as just as responsible for creating addicts as anything.
Thank you for writing that, since some people think that our gov and big pharm have no part in this problem. Clearly, they do.
You do realize, the reason they want people tested, is due to so many whom are prescribed drugs such as Oxy or Hydrocodone, and then sell them.
I know people that were making a few thousand a month, off of their PX's
Well,
I wasn't trying to quiz u.
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Do you realize, he also realized, you always keep some stashed.
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I know people on probation, who actually have to produce and account for all of their prescriptions. Even count them out
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Believe they can now far more accurately determine the concentration of drugs in system far more accurately.
You're welcome.
I would also like to encourage anyone out there who is facing similar circumstances to keep at it.
My journey away from pain pills has taken a while. Addiction and dependency issues aside, they are tough to break free from because they do work. I had a couple of setbacks over the last 2 years until I figured out what actually worked and what doesn’t.
For me it’s:
Swimming- I’ve worked my way up to swimming 4-5 miles per week. Water allows me an intense workout without impact on my back.
Stretches and exercises- several trips through the PT office have given me a routine that is efficient and effective. Do these religiously. Twice a day, 365 days in a row, repeat.
CBD oil- Not a miracle cure as some make it out to be, but it works for me.
A good joint supplement- Osteo BiFlex
Interventional Pain Management- My Pain doc doesn’t prescribe pain meds to anyone. We started doing Radio Frequency Nerve Ablation 1.5 years ago. It has worked wonders.
If I stick to this plan, I feel great! Pain is a more manageable 2-4 instead of the 7-8 I had 2 years ago.
Interesting story BF. It's funny how we don't know about these other ways to detox. No money in it, so why bother.
I really gets me mad.
Evidently it isn't quite that easy. I helped a disabled vet who's x-wife was using him to get pills to sell. His doctor figured out he wasn't taking them himself and did one last prescription. two a day for two weeks, she only gave her poor disabled veteran x-husband the pills the day or two before he had to return and be tested, He failed the test and thankfully she was done getting those damn pills to sell. Good ! He never needed them to begin with.
She was a frikin nasty filthy literally stinking alcoholic pill popping parasite who had latched on to her x !
Thankfully now she has lost legal control over him and his money and he is now in a decent nursing home, I know I personally moved him there.
and "government issues guidelines" are developed and determined by companies that profit,
or
by lobbyists' that BUY it,
as most would opt NOT to try it (Addiction )
but, when slipped by to you from your Dr., someone you usually trust, many became addicted.
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We need non money influenced regulation, that would profit all,
but there is apparently no benefit for those who would normally profit , aka, large corporations.
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Money over morals and ethics is far too common.
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Money is the newest old religion, A Greed or Dis A Greed,
Greed is still there...