The coming civil war over abortion
S E E D E D C O N T E N T
If Donald Trump's election could evoke Madonna's expressed desire to blow up the White House … and the hearings for Brett Kavanaugh induce women to scream and pound at the Senate's doors – what will the overturning of Roe v. Wade bring about?
A civil war is coming to America, only this time, it will be abortion, rather than slavery, that divides the nation. And while I hope will all my heart that it will not be a physically violent war, the ideological conflict will certainly be violent and intense.
We witnessed some of this during the hearings for Brett Kavanaugh, when the opposition to his confirmation was fierce to the point of screaming and pounding at the Senate's doors.
This brought to my mind the famous line, "Hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned," based on which I wrote an article titled, " Prepare for the Wrath of the Pro-Abortion Militants ." The article ended by saying "that hell hath no fury like that of the militant pro-abortionists."
The very same day my article was posted on the Stream, Jennifer Hartline posted an article on that same website, titled, " It's Not Kavanaugh. It's Roe ." Her article ended by saying, "They hate Kavanaugh because they love abortion and he does not. Hell hath no fury like 'women's rights' scorned."
We were hearing the same message!
This is part of what I refer to as Jezebel's War with America (the title of my forthcoming book), where the forces of radical feminism come together with the extreme pro-abortion movement (among other spiritual and cultural forces) in an attempt destroy America.
The only way to describe this is war.
Confirmation for this comes from the response to Alabama's pro-life bill, just passed by the Senate.
As expected, the reaction from the left has been fierce and intense.
Note the highlighted words in these tweets and comments:
"Alabama just passed a near-total ban on abortion. No exceptions for rape or incest. Doctors could face 99 years in prison for providing abortions. This is a war on women , and it is time to fight like hell ." (Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand)
"This ban is dangerous and exceptionally cruel – and the bill's authors want to use it to overturn Roe v. Wade. I've lived in that America and let me tell you: We are not going back – not now, not ever. We will fight this. And we will win." (Sen. Elizabeth Warren)
"Women's rights are under attack. This relentless and cruel Republican assault on women's health is designed to force a court battle to destroy Roe v. Wade . Democrats will be ready to defend health care and women's reproductive freedom." (Rep. Nancy Pelosi)
The reaction from Hollywood echoed the sentiments of Washington:
According to John Legend, "These statehouses are waging all-out war on women and their right to control their reproductive decisions. This is awful."
Alyssa Milano tweeted, "There have been nearly 30 bans on abortion introduced, passed, or signed into law in statehouses around the country this year alone. This is Trump's anti-choice agenda and part of the GOP's war on women ."
On Instagram, Tracie Lee Ross, with 6.5 million followers, wrote, " WE MUST FIGHT ~ this is terrifying."
And John Cusack tweeted, "This only ends with impeachment – and people in the streets ."
As summed up by author Amber Tamblyn, "Good morning, women. Make no mistake. This is war ."
Do we need this spelled out any more clearly? We are being told that those who stand for Roe v. Wade will fight like hell, that there will be people in the streets, that this is a battle, a war. We dare not miss the meaning.
Again, I fervently hope that this is not a physically violent war. I sincerely hope there will not be violent attacks by pro-abortion extremists leading to retaliation by those being attacked. (By definition, if you are pro-life, you will not seek to take the life of an innocent person.)
But if Trump's election could stir massive women marches with Madonna expressing her desire to blow up the White House, what will the overturning of Roe v. Wade bring about? (This is part of the reason I refer to all this as "Jezebel's war with America.")
We must also be reminded by how heartless the pro-abortion movement can be, as represented by this tweet from "comedian" Michelle Wolf: "Do what the Alabama government refuses to do: help women by donating to the https://yellowhammerfund.org. Donating is as easy as flicking an embryo out of a uterus should be " (my emphasis).
Yes, a tiny baby is just something to be "flicked"!
If this is how the left views a helpless baby in the womb, how will it view those who seek to overturn Roe v. Wade?
Recently, there has been an uptick of physical attacks on peaceful pro-lifers. (See here and here and here for examples.) And it is likely that such attacks will only increase in the days ahead.
All the more reason, then, that we keep working to change hearts and minds, that we pray for divine intervention, and that we reply with calmness and measured speech rather than angry rhetoric of our own. A civil war is certain. The only thing to be determined is how bloody it will be. Much of that depends on us. Let us pursue the cause of life.
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How many pro-lifers, (aka pro-slavery), folks have murdered "abortion doctors"? Seems weird to me that someone that says, "abortion is murder", would turn around and murder a fully functioning adult human. Clearly, the definition of irony.
'Peaceful pro-lifers'? You mean like peaceful Ku Kluxers and Nazis too?
s/ added for---effect---affect--or--ask gawd.
Well, both think certain groups of people should be denied their respective rights.
Not nearly as idiotic as claims of Christians being persecuted or equating pro-choice individuals as "pro-abortion."
By asking the government to regulate healthcare decisions for women is DAMN close to fascism.
You know what, I'll take it one step farther and call it fascism regardless!
You prove once again that you do not understand the term or know what you're talking about!
Whether abortion occurs or not is the choice of the woman. They are allowing and respecting the woman's right to make that choice for herself!
Then don't have one. no one is forcing you or telling you to get one. But you do not get to make that determination for anyone else!
But only in instances to save the woman's life, and no other time, right?
See first statement!
While restricting or prohibiting another's established rights in the process!
I would like to make some corrections and commentary to this article.
Normal people are not pro-abortion. They are pro-choice. You chose what you feel is morally right, and I get to chose, within some limitations.
There is no virtual war. It's a culture war. No normal person should ever engage in violence.
The idiot who said: "as easy as flicking an embryo out of a uterus should be", has no class, to say the least.
Now here is my deal.
I don't believe life beings at conception (both scientifically and spiritually). I think that these new laws if they actually happen will not stop desperate women from having abortions and we will go back to back ally abortions with WOMEN dying. I think that women will go back to trying to do it to themselves. So what a gain. Women dying instead of a bunch of cells being safely removed.
Here is the thing. I don't begrudge you to not have an abortion if that is your belief. But don't dictate to me what my beliefs should be, based on your beliefs and I won't do the same to you, because that is what these laws are doing.
At the very least it had to be Tiny Tim's dwarf brother.
LOL Mr. F!
So? Abortion should be easy. The sooner it's performed, the easier and less invasive it is. I already mentioned that it can be done pharmacologically. That's about as easy as it gets.
Most human beings have ZERO respect for life, plants, fish, insects and other mammals,
that's why we eat so well and multiply so readily.
or what we do to unwanted male "dairy cows"
Then of course we have the very bored, very rich and their children who think that baiting large exotic animals and killing them with large modern high caliber weapons is somehow a test of their mettle and manhood.
Add to that the millions of millions of people that people have killed in the name of religion or politics/
or in conquest of territories or been killed for the same excuses
and as a so called apex predator and self appointed most intelligent species on this planet,
there is very little evidence that life is important to anything or anyone,
certainly not any omnipotent creator or God/Goddess,
that's simply and totally illogical and beyond current evidence.
I've made no mention about the comment itself. What's considered "tasteless" or not is a matter of opinion.
Women have the absolute right to change their minds, or not.
Sure. Do you favor women being able to choose to continue with an abortion if she so chooses?
Very true.
Thanks for the video SP, but I had to stop at 1 minute. Cruelty to animals is one of those things I simply cannot watch, and as a former Marine, I have seen some really horrifying stuff....but cruelty to animals? Can't do it.
Agreed! It seems that obscenity is as relative as is the value of life...
I can't watch that stuff either. I had to briefly cutaway to youtube and reverse the ill effects by watching street preachers getting assaulted. that always cheers me up. hopefully the attempted aggressive implementation of unconstitutional xtian sharia laws in a secular USA will be providing some newer viewing content soon.
All jokes aside, MAGA--or whatever--a civil war in right wing world is far more likely to be waged for the ( re-institution ) of slavery than the abortion thing. Besides, in the grand scheme of things nobody--and especially the right, the christian right or the nutfluger right gives a crap or has ever given a crap about a zygote, fetus, newborn, toddler, pre-teen, teen, young adult, middle aged adult, retired adult or geriatric adult.
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They are still mad that they lost the civil war.
Ah, is that why you still fly the confederate flag? You won? Too funny..
A Jefferson flag is just as offensive.
Got one?
Outlawing terminations does zero squat nada zip to decrease the demand...
The demand for abortions is completely the result of unwanted pregnancies.
The last I checked advocating for a damn civil war is what?
Treason. Sedition. treachery, ect… I have more.
Except nobody except far righties ever really advocates for a civil war...
"advocating for a damn civil war is what?"
More distraction for the 'brokahontas' occupying the WH to keep the conversation away from the dirty-dirty-dirty Russian money that has been floating his debt ridden arse for the past couple of decades.
That is what this is and nothing else.
No, it is not. The comment does not make broad stroke statements about large groups of people. That is a sweeping gen.
You clearly do not understand what a sweeping generalization is then. Perhaps that's why you make them so often?
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I am defining a general subject, not a person. I gave you a definition of what a sweeping gen is on the site.
The war hawks on the right, (Bolton and Darth Cheney come to mind), always wanting a war, which ultimately kills lots of young men.
Free access to fire arms in this nation kills 10's of thousands a year.
Denying universal healthcare, which kills an estimated 20,000 a year, (the flu alone kills close to 40,000 a year).
....
These things kill 100's of thousands of people a year without so much as a thought about it from most of the right wing, it's all perfectly ok. But take the "life" of a fetus? OMG! The outrage!!!!
I mean, FAKE outrage. If they were pro life, they would be voting to increase welfare, housing, education, etc. for poor people, women in particular.
So what's the game here? Make sure it's born so they can watch it die poor, hungry and diseased in the streets? If that's what is known as, "Christian Love"? I want no part of it.
“Let’s just say someone goes out and they’re raped or they’re sexually assaulted one night after a college party — because most of my rapes were not the gentleman jumping out of the bushes that nobody had ever met. That was one or two times out of a hundred. Most of them were date rapes or consensual rapes, which were all terrible.” - Missouri Republican Barry Hovis
Yes, that's the hurdle reasonable, logical and sensible Americans have to overcome. Massive, unmitigated, extreme right wing ignorance of facts and definitions that make it nearly impossible to have a constructive debate. How can you come to an agreement if the very words we use to convey our position are either misunderstood or improperly defined? How can you get through the density of stupid if not just anyone, but a Republican legislator, believes rape can be consensual? How can you reason with someone who believes marriage is something handed down by their God within which a man can't marry a man, but he can apparently "consensualy" rape his wife wince spousal rape is argued by some evangelicals as not being possible or wrong?
Really, I think going to the civil war topic is a mistake.
Such a course is a reflection of failure of reasoning and balance. Of course, that seems to be the hot lick path du'jour.
What is civil war? Does anyone know what civil war is? To paraphrase a pop singer, what is civil about war anyway?
Here is what civil war looks like. Is this what we want on our own land? In our neighborhoods? For those we love and know?
Do you see that white building? Rather, what remained of that white building? Do you know everyday Joes and Jane, Okay, Oleksandrs and Olyas went to work that day just to do their jobs, just like any of us. Probably thinking of some homemade pelmeni (stuffed or filled dumplings) or maybe a luxury such a borsch (yes borsch) when getting home. Instead they died very painful deaths that very day because of ideology promoted by our nation.
hmmmm?
What is civil about war anyway.
It wasn't a pro-choice activist who blew up clinics, a gay bar and Olympic Park.
The threats to our personal safety and civil society come from forced birthers.
I don't mean this between you and me, though that stuff happens and that is life. I mean the following to be about us as a nation.
I hope you have time and patience to wade through this:
This is the life of many in a civil war, which our news chooses to remain blind to. This is a disney world version of civil war.
Then this one, just skip forward to 6:30 minutes, otherwise you will be bored to tears watching not so well oil artillery machines drilling holes through the air. Funny to watch a couple folks pick up a piece of hot spar and play with it.
Is this what we as a nation really want?
You know what, those old ladies in the first vid don't give one shit about how un-oiled those artillery folks are. They want a life again.
When do we as a nation put aside the political divides and rhetoric to be a united, functional Republic again? None of the so called "leaders" have that ability do that, in my estimation. In my observation the news makers all have divisive agendas.
We have to stop them. Stop them all. That is up to us. US.
For example, who is going to bring this discussion to the table and address it? Our so called "leaders" aren't doing it.
That tells me something about our leaders. In fact we are even in a civil war discussion now.
Thank you, "leaders".
It starts at home. It starts in the heart. That doesn't mean we all have to agree. But we have to disagree civilly. The alternative is bad.
It seems most of the dialogue on this seed ignores the central point.
we are locked into positions that are polar opposites and given those positions there is no area of compromise. That leads to several possible outcomes
1 civil war
2 dissolving the Republic
3 destruction of one side by the other
my preference of these is dissolution
Where is the option to quit forcing your religious beliefs on others or to be sent to the Middle East so you can experience the same level of oppression by Muslims that you are demanding your Christian sect wants to impose on everyone in the US?
That is certainly not the point here
I don’t advocate for imposing any religious moral laws
im speaking strictly of the difference between those of us who believe it to be a human life and those who don’t. There is no compromise between those two positions
and the Democrats have proposed the repeal of Hyde and taxpayer funding of all abortions at any time up to birth.
we who believe it is murder will not cease stating so nor will it likely cease among those who don’t view it as a life. That is just one element of the deep ideological divide in this country
So why not offer your position on how this doesn’t lead to another civil war or the other two solutions I listed.
I know of no instance that Yeshua said it was permissible or advocated overthrowing governments. Yeshua's kingdom is not in or of this world. If it were, then Yahweh/Yeshua would be the head of world government. People, who are clamoring for civil war, have written their own religious book or ignored the translations approved by the majority of Christians in the US where Yeshua tells his followers to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
How many people in your religious sect are currently planning a military offensive against everyone in the US outside of their sect? This would not be civil war. It is treason against our government and should be dealt with accordingly if the need ever arises.
I haven’t called for overthrow of the government nor do I know any Christian who does. You correctly cite that our King Jesus and His Kingdom are not of this world.
and you misstate what civil war implies. The civil war was NOT about trying to overthrow the Republic. It was states and people seceding from the Republic. The south though completely wrong on slavery had the right to dissolve the union as the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence state.
the greater threat is the totalitarian left that can not tolerate those who don’t worship statism.
There is NO Biblical violation to prefer liberty in Christ over enslavement to a Godless State.
The message of Jesus is the message of Liberty for EVERYONE
““The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.” Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Luke 4:18-21
I follow the wisdom of founders and Christians like Samuel Adams
"The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man ; but only to have the law of nature for his rule."-
If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave "
Samuel Adams November 1772
Belief does not equal fact and some of us don't go by mere belief.
You are free to continue to be wrong then!
Not likely to happen.
Here's a better solution: Mind your own business when it comes to someone else's personal choices regarding abortion!
Wouldn't this apply to women also?
I believe the goal should be to learn from history instead of trying to repeat it.
It is foolish to keep repeating the same mistakes and expect a different result.
Good old fashioned 'cow girl' sense.
Option four is generational change. That is when old ways die with their stubborn, bigoted hosts and new ways emerge from younger generations.
Really? You don’t believe anyone under 50 is pro life? You must live a very isolated life
I will admit though that you will get to see your wish fulfilled after Christians are removed from the world and complete Godless values rule completely. But it will not be the utopia you envision
I am going to give you the benefit and assume you did not actually think that is what I wrote or implied. That would, however, mean that your reply is not an honest one.
You seem to be full of presumption and/or misinterpretation today. What is my 'wish'? What is the 'utopia' you think I envision.
If you are going to make things up at least give some details on your fabrications.
No it was the logical conclusion of your premise that once older people are gone this issue will go away
Once one has read your posts over time it is not far fetched to know that you are hostile to Christianity and that you desire but are somewhat skeptical of achieving a more “equitable” humanist driven world
tell me where I’m wrong
I see. You do not understand how generational change works.
Generational change does not mean that the next generation -as a whole- adopts certain new ideas and drops specific old ones. Rather, generational change refers to the net effect of each individual child holding views different from its parent based upon the contemporary circumstances in which the child grows up.
In result, some individuals in the future will still grow up being supreme bigots due to their family indoctrination being more powerful than external influences. Others will be far more suited to the times and be open to very new things such as covering their bodies with tattoos, non-traditional marriages, etc.
Issues fade away like lights from countless candles slowly flickering out -at different times- until they are all gone. It took a while for the old flat-Earthers to die out in the Middle Ages and even today a few little flat-Earther lights remain. It takes time for generational change to occur.
So, no, your presumption that I was claiming everyone under 50 is pro-choice is a result of your misunderstanding the concept of generational change.
I am not hostile to Christianity. I am and have been surrounded by Christians my entire life. Almost all of my friends and family are Christians (or Jewish). Further, the super super majority of them are decent people who basically try to help each other and be decent people. Almost none of them have a very deep understanding of their religion (most are Catholics ... explains that) and are remarkably ignorant of what is actually written in the Bible. The Christianity of my circle is net good (all the good NT stuff; highly cherry-picked). In that regard I support that form of Christianity. What you apparently teach your flock I am quite against. I think you are doing a great disservice to the next generation.
I do not support humanism as a movement. I agree with a lot of it, but I am not a member nor will I ever be. I am not interested in carrying someone's water (parrot talking points) and I do not accept marching orders from any group.
I would like to see a more equitable world in terms of more opportunity for people to pursue their ambitions but I am absolutely against any attempt to force (or even encourage) equal results. Equal results is impossible and entirely undesirable. Equal opportunity (to the degree we can achieve that) is an entirely different matter.
What you interpret as hostility towards Christianity is actually my crusade for critical thinking. This applies to all religions, all partisan politics ... basically group-think in general. It just so happens that Christianity dominates the USA so it and the Bible become the natural conversation points.
Not happening. This goes back to treason by attempting to overthrow the US government.
Evidently, your sect ignores Yeshua and marches to war drums. Most of us, Christian or not, prefer peace.
I don't advise anyone taking on the US military if they can avoid it. Martyrdom is not something that I understand or approve of, but ask and ye shall receive.
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Except that in the Bible everyone except for Christians Dies In The End...
Not true. The death the Bible speaks of is spiritual death, eternal separation from God. The spirit of mankind is eternal
Many of your fellow Christians see things differently. Time for you folks to get together and figure out the correct way to interpret the Bible. Or, and I think this is much better, write a new Bible that gives good moral lessons and leaves out the fantastic tales of ancient men with pens and agendas.
Eternity in hell and the eternal nature of our Spirit is the United understanding of ALL Christians who believe the Bible is the Word of God.
Only those who deny the words ofJesus and thus are not actually Christians deny as authoritative what He said
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”Matthew 10:20
The word destroy in the Greek text is apollymi
“a strengthened form of ollumi , signifies "to destroy utterly;" in Middle Voice, "to perish." The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luk 5:37 ; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luk 15:4 , 6 , etc.; the lost son, Luk 15:24 ”
“Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! “ Matthew 13:40-43
“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:11-15
Jesus and the prophets clearly taught that the soul is eternal.
“‘That’s when Michael, the great angel-prince, champion of your people, will step in. It will be a time of trouble, the worst trouble the world has ever seen. But your people will be saved from the trouble, every last one found written in the Book. Many who have been long dead and buried will wake up, some to eternal life, others to eternal shame” Daniel 12:1-2
Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:45-46
And those Christians who do not believe in hell are not true Christians?
Those Christians who do not interpret the Bible per your standards are not true Christians?
Young Earth Creationists hold that God created homo sapiens (no evolution) and dropped them on the planet about 6,000 years ago. They also believe that land animals (including dinosaurs) were created less than 24 hours prior (same day) to the creation of human beings (Adam & Eve).
Mormons believe that hell is reserved for Satan and a few of the very worst people. Most everyone, per Mormons, goes to Heaven. But ... tada ... there are three levels of heaven. (hint: you want to try to get into the top heaven vs. the low heaven because then you turn into a demigod to rule over other universes).
This could go on forever ... you get the idea.
No, that would be a particular religious interpretation of the bible that many do NOT agree with. Religions have been perverting the real message since the beginning, using it as a way to increase their wealth and power. You can see it to varying degrees today! It is wrong for anybody to force someone else to adhere to values that aren't theirs. There is one side that wants to deny rights and deny equality to certain groups (it is NEVER white men denied, by the way, interesting, don't you think?) Everybody is allowed to have their own spiritual beliefs. Women deserve full autonomy without interference. Abortion is not murder, its nobody elses business. Nobody is forcing abortion on anybody. Some men (and a few stupid women) are trying to take the choice away from women.