Trump says he misled on virus to instill calm. But he’s governed with scare tactics.


Category:  News & Politics

Via:  john-russell  •  2 weeks ago  •  47 comments

Trump says he misled on virus to instill calm. But he’s governed with scare tactics.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T   /politics/trump-woodward-coronavirus-panic/2020/09/10/5376cd7c-f375-11ea-999c-67ff7bf6a9d2_story.html

Trump says he misled on virus to instill calm. But he’s governed with scare tactics.

By Philip RuckerclosePhilip RuckerWhite House Bureau ChiefEmailEmailBioBioFollowFollow

6-8 minutes

A visibly agitated and angry President Trump on Thursday defended his decision to intentionally mislead the public about the lethality of the novel   coronavirus   by saying he had an obligation as the nation’s leader to prevent panic.

Staring down reporters at a White House news conference in the wake of revelations from   Bob Woodward’s new book , “Rage,” Trump cast his deception as a virtue — a president instilling calm to protect the people.

“I don’t want to jump up and down and start screaming ‘Death! Death!’ because that’s not what it’s all about. We have to lead a country,” Trump said. He added, “There has to be a calmness.”

Trump evidently did not feel the same presidential obligation to imbue serenity a few hours earlier, however, when he sounded the alarm on Twitter about a number of other topics.

“If I don’t win, America’s Suburbs will be OVERRUN with Low Income Projects, Anarchists, Agitators, Looters and, of course, ‘Friendly Protesters,’ ” Trump tweeted Thursday morning.

In another morning tweet, he wrote, “Sending out 80 MILLION BALLOTS to people who aren’t even asking for a Ballot is unfair and a total fraud in the making. Look at what’s going on right now!”

Throughout his five years on the national political stage, Trump has used fear to acquire and keep power. Scare tactics are the hammer and screwdriver of his tool kit.

Trump famously launched his presidential campaign in 2015 with dark warnings that immigrants from Mexico were “rapists” and “bringing drugs” and “bringing crime.”

As president, he has warned darkly — and with considerable hyperbole — of dangers he sees everywhere. At first, it was citizens of majority-Muslim countries bringing terror to the shores of the United States. Then it was MS-13 gang members overtaking tranquil communities. Then it was “caravans” of “illegal aliens” traveling through Central America toward the U.S.-Mexico border. Then it was “un-American” Democrats trying to steal everyone’s guns, obliterate the economy and destroy the country by instituting socialism.

This summer, as polls have shown Trump trailing Democratic presidential nominee   Joe Biden , the president has warned of a “RIGGED 2020 ELECTION … IT WILL BE THE SCANDAL OF OUR TIMES!” as he put it in an all-caps tweet on June 22.

And he has sounded urgent calls for “LAW AND ORDER,” as he has tweeted time and again.

He also has warned that the “radical left” seeks to endanger families and wipe out livelihoods in suburbs everywhere, as he claimed in his address last month when he formally accepted the Republican presidential nomination.

“No one will be safe in Biden’s America,” Trump declared.

Instilling calm, this is not.

“His political campaign’s branding strategy is panic. They should put ‘PANIC’ on a red hat,” said Tim Miller, a longtime GOP strategist who advises Republican Voters Against Trump.

Miller said Trump’s assertion that he played down the threat of the novel coronavirus because he did not want to panic the public was “an absurd defense.”

“The person warning about the end of suburbia and migrant caravans looting and raping your daughters, the idea that he’s somebody who wants to turn down the temperature and breathe calm is absurd,” Miller said.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a historian at New York University and author of a forthcoming book, “Strongmen,” described Trump as “a chaos agent” and said his strategy of using fear to encourage dependence on him as a leader fits a global pattern.

“All leaders of authoritarian tendencies use methods of psychological warfare on their people by creating environments full of uncertainty,” Ben-Ghiat said. “You never know what to expect from the leader, you never know when he’ll be angry or whom he’ll victimize. They use bureaucratic chaos and create uncertainty to keep people divided, too frightened from mobilizing.”

At Thursday’s news conference, Trump argued that he waited many weeks to share what he knew about the virus being airborne and deadlier, far more lethal than the flu, because he did not want to create panic in the public.

“I want to show a level of confidence and I want to show strength as a leader and I want to show that our country is going to be fine, one way or the other,” Trump said.

Asked why he did not level with the American people by calmly presenting information about the virus in real time — as, for instance, German Chancellor Angela Merkel had done — Trump was defensive. He said coronavirus outbreaks across Europe were “much worse than the numbers here,” which is false. He also argued that the United States has “rounded the final turn,” an assessment in conflict with much of the data.

White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany bolstered Trump’s defense by telling reporters Wednesday, “This president does what leaders do — good leaders: It’s stay calm and resolute at a time when you face an unsurmountable challenge.”

But reporting at the time revealed Trump’s motivations for wanting to avoid panic in January and February to be far more nuanced. The president was fixated during that time not on leadership virtues but on the stock market, which he has long seen as a barometer of his reelection chances. He was strongly averse to any government announcement that might scare investors into a sell-off, his advisers explained.

Trump’s critics said the president has been misguided, stoking fear where little exists while trying to instill calm when his silence has had deadly consequences, with the coronavirus death toll now nearing 200,000.

“When we talk about what our real threat is, it’s clearly not the child that’s locked up in a detention center. It’s not the mother displaced in asylum or the people trying to cross the border. Our clearest danger right now is the president of the United States,” said Maria Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino, a grass-roots political group.

On Thursday at the White House, Trump lashed out at a pair of reporters who questioned why he hadn’t been truthful with the public about the lethality of the virus. He effectively said that any suggestion that he should have was nonsense.

“We’re leading a great country and we’re doing a great job,” Trump said. “The people that have done such a good job should be given the kind of credit that they deserve.”


jrDiscussion - desc
smarty_function_ntUser_is_admin: user_id parameter required
1  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

How can someone who is trying to panic white people every day say he doesnt want to panic anyone ? 

Dismayed Patriot
1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  JohnRussell @1    2 weeks ago
How can someone who is trying to panic white people every day say he doesnt want to panic anyone ? 

Pushing white grievance scares some people toward Trumpism whereas telling the people the truth about Covid would have led to an earlier though not as steep financial cost so he and his administration did the math and decided to keep pushing white grievance as the greatest threat while downplaying the threat from Covid. Sure, nearly every death associated with the protests have been caused by right wing infiltrators but even that isn't anywhere close to the nearly 200,000 American lives taken by Covid.

But that's not the messaging coming from the Whitehouse which is non-stop rhetoric about violent "leftists" threatening the white Christian patriarchy, which strangely enough, is exactly what the right wing extremists are killing people to protect, which is likely why you hear nearly complete silence coming from the right when asked to condemn it.

Many on the right protect the right wing extremists or even refuse to acknowledge they exist. Many believe right wing extremists aren't dangerous to them, to their white Christian patriarchy run communities, right wing terrorists in their minds only attack minorities, lgtbq Americans, liberals, progressives and non-Christians. So even those who are only right wing conservatives really don't fear right wing extremists or right wing extremism. Sadly there are likely many that even secretly root for right wing extremists and those who murder doctors and bomb clinics. Not all Trump supporters are right wing extremists, but virtually every right wing extremist is a Trump supporter and will be there in the voting booth this November shoulder to shoulder with their fellow conservative Republicans voting for dishonest Donald.

2  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
“His political campaign’s branding strategy is panic. They should put ‘PANIC’ on a red hat,” said Tim Miller, a longtime GOP strategist who advises Republican Voters Against Trump. https:// -woodward-coronavirus-panic/2020/09/10/5376cd7c-f375-11ea-999c-67ff7bf6a9d2_story.html
Greg Jones
3  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

Nonsense! The ongoing, never ending, 24/7 misinformation, hysteria, generalized fear mongering, and untrue bullshit put out by the left wing media and its supporters, has induced whatever panic that might have ensued

3.1  Gsquared  replied to  Greg Jones @3    2 weeks ago


3.1.1  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Gsquared @3.1    2 weeks ago


Trout Giggles
3.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  JohnRussell @3.1.1    2 weeks ago


3.1.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Gsquared @3.1    2 weeks ago

All three of you...... Listen up!

Greg is only here to waste our time.  

What exactly did your measured, and I can surmise accurate responses get you for your time?  Nailed as Off Topic.

He's not worth getting the ticket.

It might make you feel better, but it is impossible to change someone's position with facts an logic when they didn't use facts and logic to achieve that position.

Trout Giggles
3.1.4  Trout Giggles  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.3    2 weeks ago


And that is not meant to mock because you are absolutely right.

3.1.5  Dulay  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.3    2 weeks ago

Yet it's quite unusual for John to flag ANYTHING and especially himself for being off topic. 

3.1.6  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @3.1.5    2 weeks ago

I didn't flag anything. Arent I supposed to be the only one to call off topic on my seeds ?   I dont get it. 

3.1.7  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  Dulay @3.1.5    2 weeks ago

I guess we're not allowed to say that Trumpsters are in a cult anymore. What's next? We won't be able to say they are wrong? 

Greg Jones
3.1.8  Greg Jones  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @3.1.3    2 weeks ago

And now you are doing the same thing...making it personal and insulting. Their comments were neither measured nor  accurate...just personal insults.

If I make a comment or express an opinion you disagree with, make an effort to refute what I say...respond like an adult. Don't know why I bother you so much

3.1.9  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Greg Jones @3.1.8    2 weeks ago

You first..... Post something worth responding to...Newstalkers is about discussion..... [Deleted]

Bottom line... you're long on belching Fox talking points, and way short of analysis or supporting links when called on to defend the lies you hold so dear.

How about this Greg..... Find and post a link that supports your statement of: "24/7 misinformation, hysteria, generalized fear mongering by the left"  

I know you won't, but here's your chance to be a right-wing hero.....    

lady in black
4  lady in black    2 weeks ago

He's full of shit, more lies, what else is new

charger 383
5  charger 383    2 weeks ago

What should he have said "The sky is falling and people are going to die and toilet paper will be in short supply"?

5.1  Tessylo  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago

Unreal.  Supporters will justify everything trumpturd does or doesn't do.

He has the death of almost 200,000 on his hands.  

Trout Giggles
5.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago

How about acting like it was a serious situation and following guidelines and just possibly stand aside and let the experts talk.

I could say he might have acted presidential once in his life but that's just asking too much

5.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @5.2    2 weeks ago
"I could say he might have acted presidential once in his life but that's just asking too much"

trumpturd acting like a decent human being once in his life is just asking too much 

Dismayed Patriot
5.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago
What should he have said...

"It goes through air, Bob. That’s always tougher than the touch. The touch, you don’t have to touch things, right? But the air, you just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed. And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flus."

"This is more deadly. This is 5% versus 1%, and less than 1%. So this is deadly stuff." - Feb 7th, 2020

"Now it’s starting out it’s not just all people, Bob. But just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. It’s not just old, older-"

"Young people too. Plenty of young people." - March 19, 2020

No "sky is falling", just the facts and what the CDC recommends we do about it by taking it seriously. But that was apparently too much to ask from this inept moron, but then, then majority of Americans already knew that. With over 30,000 lies shat out of his mouth already, rational Americans had little hope of deadly Donald actually responding to a national emergency with any honesty or ability.

"Anyone who can be trusted in little matters can also be trusted in important matters. But anyone who is dishonest in little matters will be dishonest in important matters. " - Luke 16:10

5.4  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago
What should he have said "The sky is falling and people are going to die and toilet paper will be in short supply"?

Come on charger, you're smarter than that. 

Surely you can come up with something better, something between your example, 'The sky is falling' and Trump's, 'Don't worry, be happy'.

5.5  FLYNAVY1  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago

Charger, you know way better than that.....

True leaders like FDR and Kennedy told the American people the facts from our initial involvement in WWII and the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Even Churchill told the Brits that "The battle of France is over and the battle of Brittan is about to begin."

None of those leaders made efforts to "play it down"

Trump was just trying to keep the stock market from crashing, PERIOD!  

5.5.1  Dulay  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.5    2 weeks ago

I know none of the conservatives want to hear it but there IS a readily available and relevant example of how a POTUS can and should handle an impending pandemic. 

There are videos and documents of President Obama's reaction to the H1N1 pandemic, from the first week it was discovered through the distribution of the vaccine.

None of us should be surprised that we don't remember the states vying against each other for supplies, the ciaos, the months and months of uncertainty because of the H1N1 pandemic, because NONE of that happened. 

Though I doubt that conservatives could stomach it, I invite them to watch this:

5.5.2  Ronin2  replied to  Dulay @5.5.1    2 weeks ago

Yes, that is exactly the way it should be handled by ignoring it! Obama ignored it, the fucking media ignored it, everyone ignored it. They ignored it so fucking much it left the stock piles barren; and Obama then moved all responsibility to the states to provide for themselves.

Oh, and if Obama was so worried about a pandemic; why did his requested budgets slash CDC funding?

The Obama administration repeatedly sought to cut hundreds of millions of dollars in funding to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), yearly budget requests show -- seemingly undercutting former Vice President Joe Biden's repeated attacks on the Trump White House for its pandemic preparedness.

Numerous Democrats, including Biden, have falsely claimed that Trump slashed the CDC budget, and Biden has suggested that he would never pursue similar cuts. The Associated Press  has noted  that those claims "distort" the facts, with pointing out that CDC funding has actually increased under the current administration, largely because Congress insisted on maintaining funding levels for both CDC and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Nevertheless, speaking to ABC News' “This Week” on March 1, Biden  claimed : “They’ve cut the funding for the CDC.” On Friday, Biden stepped up his attacks, writing on Twitter: "Donald Trump's careless, shortsighted actions left our nation ill-prepared and now Americans are paying the price."

In its fiscal year 2013 budget , while Biden was vice president, the Obama administration sought a total funding level of $5.9 billion from the CDC, or a $569 million cut from the 2012 budget of $6.46 billion. In fiscal year 2015 , the Obama administration wanted a $414 million cut year-over-year, and again in the fiscal year 2017 budget , the Obama administration looked to eliminate $251 million in CDC funding.

The proposed cuts take into account money budgeted for The Prevention and Public Health Fund, which was established under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 to bolster the nation's health care system. When not including that fund, the Obama administration sought CDC cuts in five of its eight years.

Some of the Obama administration's cuts specifically took aim at the CDC's preparedness initiatives.

“Now, President Obama’s 2012 budget calls for paring some of that spending. Funding for a public health emergency preparedness program run by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was cut by about $72 million below fiscal 2010 levels in the budget proposal.”  The Wall Street Journal  reported   in 2012.

Those cuts would later intensify. “The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) takes a hit of about $270 million in the Obama administration's proposed fiscal year 2014 budget, including significant cuts to biodefense and emergency preparedness programs," according to a 2013 post from the  Center For Infectious Disease Research And Policy .

Then, in 2015, President Obama called for $50 million in budget cuts amid a measles outbreak -- and White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest's claims that ObamaCare would pick up the slack were  rated false  by The Washington Post's fact-checker.

“Chipping away at 317 funds — even if the majority of cuts are going toward vaccine purchases — jeopardizes the immunization system in general, public-health officials and advocates say. It restricts the ability of local public health departments to prepare for and respond to outbreaks and educate providers, Chris Aldridge, senior director for infectious disease at the National Association of County and City Health Officials,   told The Washington Post   in 2015.

During the current coronavirus pandemic, money that government disease detectives first tapped to fight the latest outbreak was a congressional fund created for health emergencies. Congress, which has strongly supported the CDC and NIH, rejected a Trump administration budget that might have cut their funding.

While some public health experts have said a bigger concern than White House budgets is the steady erosion of a CDC grant program for state and local public health emergency preparedness — the front lines in detecting and battling new disease. But that decline was set in motion by a congressional budget measure that predates Trump.

Obama speaketh with forked tongue. I expect nothing less from any politician.

But Trruuummmmppppp!!!!! I am surprise TDS sufferers aren't all in neck braces from the whiplash they must get from their hypocrisy.

5.5.3  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @5.5.2    2 weeks ago
Yes, that is exactly the way it should be handled by ignoring it! Obama ignored it, the fucking media ignored it, everyone ignored it.

You just replied to a comment that includes a video that clearly show Obama NOT ignoring H1N1. 

They ignored it so fucking much it left the stock piles barren; and Obama then moved all responsibility to the states to provide for themselves.

THAT is a lie and I have the receipts. 

Now this isn't for those who have a short attention span so buckle up:

Click on that link and review the data along with me about the testing of the N95 masks in the National Stockpile. That testing was done between Aug. 2017 and Aug. 18.

The first thing you should notice is the summary bubble on the first page that states:

NIOSH found that 519 of 559 N95 filtering face piece respirators stockpiled at Facility Seven that were 5-12 years old maintained their inhalation and exhalation resistance and filtration performance in accordance with NIOSH performance standards. 

See that thingy I noted in BOLD ?

So the inspection was finalized on Aug. 2018 and the masks were 5-12 years old. 

You know what that means Ronin2? It means that NONE of those masks were purchased after Trump took office. 

Still with me? GOOD! 

The masks were taken from skids full of boxes stacked 2 high [see the picture on page 2]. 

See that picture Ronin2?

Does that look like an empty stockpile to YOU? 

Still with me? GOOD!

Now go to the bottom of page 3. Here is what it says:

Based on the other nine collaborating stockpiles’ inventories, these six models were sampled in order to compare performance within common respirator models when stored under disparate conditions.

Now you can go on and read through the whole document to find that by 'collaborating stockpiles' inventory' they mean OF THE SAME SIZE. The report is about 3 of those 9 stockpiles. 

So THAT means that there was  9 stockpiles in districts of the United States with a fucking crap load of shit in them in August of 2018 and NONE of that crap was put there by Trump. 

Oh and another little tidbit in that report 'suggest' that the 'stockpile employees' take note of the expiration dates on the masks they tested and act accordingly. The manufacturers cite expiration dates of 5 years max [remember the 12 year old ones?]. 

Enjoy MY link. It's full of technical data and FACTS. 

charger 383
5.5.4  charger 383  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.5    2 weeks ago

Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs. did he tell us the facts?  Or play it down?  Did he tell us all about getting us in the Vietnam mess?

FDR.  What did he know before Pearl Harbor and why were we taken by surprise? 

          Were the Fireside Chats 100% total true? or were they to lift people's spirits?  "Only thing we have to fear is fear itself" is              the best downplay of all time!

          Why was his physicial condition hidden from the public?

          Why was Truman clueless when he took over?          

Churchill  Now some say he is a bad guy, a racist or something.  Some complain about a bust of him in the oval office

They got us through bad situations; But. Were they totally truthful and were they able to tell it like it was at the time?  

(and I do not know why this ended up so jumpy, but I am not going to type it a fourth time)

5.5.5  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5.5.4    2 weeks ago

You seem to be conflating military secrets with life saving medical information. 

charger 383
5.5.6  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @5.5.5    2 weeks ago

I did not make the comparison first,

5.5.7  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @5.5.6    2 weeks ago

Yet you were the one that cited information that any thinking person would recognize as military secrets. 

5.5.8  FLYNAVY1  replied to  charger 383 @5.5.6    2 weeks ago

You didn't even make a comparison second......

If Trump was out there leading by example of wearing a mask, and supporting social distancing at every turn while downplaying, then you might have some standing, but now that the death toll is approaching 200,000, and he is mocking people that wear masks and holding super spreader events.... No he is not working at protecting the country.  He is not leading.

5.5.9  seeder  JohnRussell  replied to  charger 383 @5.5.4    2 weeks ago

Roosevelt had received intelligence through broken diplomatic codes that Japan was likely going to launch an attack or attacks somewhere in Asia at an unspecified date. There is no evidence that he knew they would attack Pearl Harbor. Don't believe me, believe the senior researcher at the WWII museum in New Orleans

Seventy-five years after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, some Americans have never stopped believing that President Franklin Roosevelt let it happen in order to draw the U.S. into World War II.

"It's ridiculous," says Rob Citino, senior researcher at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans. "But it's evergreen. It never stops. My students, over 30 years — there'd always be someone in class [who'd say], 'Roosevelt knew all about it.'"
5.5.10  Kavika   replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.5.8    2 weeks ago

Yesterday's total. 47,643 new cases and 1213 deaths. 

Great job Trump. /s

5.5.11  Dulay  replied to  Ronin2 @5.5.2    2 weeks ago

Where did you go bro?

I gave you documented information that refutes your link AND your comment and you don't have a thing to say? 

I can't imagine why. /s

I proved that Trump is lying MORE, AGAIN, STILL.  

5.5.12  Dulay  replied to  Dulay @5.5.3    2 weeks ago

The post I'm replying to proves one more thing. 

That document is right off of the CDC website. There is NO WAY that the CDC didn't know for a fact that Trump was lying about Obama leaving the National Stockpile empty but not one of them stepped up and told us the truth. 

This proves to me how deep the cowardice and sycophancy for Trump has seeped into the fabric of Agencies that the American people rely on to protect the health of the nation. 

5.6  JBB  replied to  charger 383 @5    2 weeks ago

I am an old man in The Bronx. I can handle the truth. What I have a problem with is The President of the United States of America telling lies about something that caused the social order to break down resulting in thousands and thousands of deaths just in my immediate neighborhood both directly and indirectly. So many people got sick before they told us the truth that hospitals were overwhelmed and there were not even enough responders to carry out all the dead. Yeah. Then the courts failed because there weren't jailers or jurors or clerks to man the system. Half the police and firefighters got sick. It was hell and it was unnecessary if our leadership had not lied to us!

6  Tessylo    2 weeks ago


6.1  FLYNAVY1  replied to  Tessylo @6    2 weeks ago

Exactly right Tess....

7  Tessylo    2 weeks ago


7.1  cjcold  replied to  Tessylo @7    2 weeks ago

Pretty sure that Trump has yet to make a correct decision in his life. 

Dismayed Patriot
7.1.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  cjcold @7.1    2 weeks ago
Pretty sure that Trump has yet to make a correct decision in his life. 

With enough gold paint even low IQ turds can look like shiny golden nuggets when handed nearly half a billion dollars by their daddy. Sure, they're still full of shit, but the gold paint will easily fool the less educated which is Trumps preferred demographic.

Trout Giggles
7.1.2  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @7.1.1    2 weeks ago

You just reminded me of the gold plated moose "nuggets" one could buy in all the tourist shops in Fairbanks and Anchorage.

I think you know what the nuggets are.

Dismayed Patriot
7.1.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.2    2 weeks ago
I think you know what the nuggets are.

Yes, perfect metaphors for Trumpism.

7.2  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @7    2 weeks ago

trumpturd is still encouraging big gatherings with no masks or social distancing.   

8  Tessylo    2 weeks ago

Listen to Alabamans explain why they flocked to the beach without masks, despite increasing COVID-19 cases in their state

9  seeder  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago
“When we talk about what our real threat is, it’s clearly not the child that’s locked up in a detention center. It’s not the mother displaced in asylum or the people trying to cross the border. Our clearest danger right now is the president of the United States,” said Maria Teresa Kumar, president of Voto Latino, a grass-roots political group.
10  Tessylo    2 weeks ago


11  Tessylo    2 weeks ago



Who is online

63 visitors