White House reviewing whether Biden can take action to cancel student loan debt

It would definitely be helpful if young professionals were not spending the first 5-10 years of their careers paying off the debt the incurred for their degrees rather than buying homes, cars, or otherwise injecting their income back into the overall economy. 

How is that fair to all the people who paid off their debts ? Or to the people who didn't get an education because they knew they couldn't afford it. How about the mothers and fathers who spent their savings sending their children to school. These people didn't ask for or get any freebees so why should they pay for someone else's bills. The people who borrowed the money got what they wanted an education now they have to pay for it and that's the way it should be. If the president wants to do something he might investigate why the hell school costs so damn much.

Welp, life just isn't fair is it? Sometimes decisions need to be made and some people get the shaft. Sucks but that is the way of the world.

The people who borrowed the money got what they wanted an education now they have to pay for it and that's the way it should be. If the president wants to do something he might investigate why the hell school costs so damn much.

Not when it has become a serious economic concern and is kinda fucking the country as a whole. Again, if we want to stay competitive globally then we need an educated workforce, we should not be hamstringing ourselves by making it so fucking expensive that people leave school owing tens of thousands of $s in debt. That is retarded. It isn't the student's fault their tuition is $10,000 plus a semester, it is the structural mess that is higher ed funding. 

Personally I don't care much if you were "responsible" or not and didn't have to take out loans. I was responsible and served 5 years in the USMC and then proceeded to use my GI Bill for my degree, but I will also acknowledge when something has spiraled out of control and needs to be fixed even if I won't benefit from it. I won't get back those 5 years or the 2 I spent in Iraq, but I am not a selfish bitch so I am not going to pitch a fit about it. Something NEEDS to change.

Welp, life just isn't fair is it?

Meh. This isn't "life." It's "politics." "Life" would be where a person takes out a loan, can't pay it back, and the bank takes his car or garnishes his paycheck or something. Or anticipating that dark consequence, a person chooses instead to either save up for college, spend less money doing it, or find an alternative path. That's "life" for most people in the normal world.

"Life" would be where a person takes out a loan, can't pay it back, and the bank takes his car or garnishes his paycheck or something.

Call me crazy but I don't think we should be looking at education like that. It is a national investment in our country's future and should be treated as such.

Or anticipating that dark consequence, a person chooses instead to either save up for college, spend less money doing it, or find an alternative path. That's "life" for most people in the normal world.

Since most American households are living paycheck to paycheck, saving up for college in any significant way isn't really an option. 

A real easy way to avoid that is to go to a cheaper school.

Even the "cheap" schools are stupid expensive. I worked for a "cheap" university, in-state tuition last fall was a little under $20,000 a semester.

That's insane, though I know it's happening all over. One of the reasons is that government makes these guaranteed loans available, so these schools jack up the tuition and use the cash to hire more unnecessary staff and erect new buildings. The problem created and perpetuates itself.

For a long time in California, tuition at state colleges was free (even the UCs). Now I think it's minimum $14K (in-state) before fees and supplies. But you can still go to community colleges for $46 a unit. That's not free, but a person can still knock out the first couple years of college for relatively cheap.

That's insane, though I know it's happening all over. One of the reasons is that government makes these guaranteed loans available, so these schools jack up the tuition and use the cash to hire more unnecessary staff and erect new buildings. The problem created and perpetuates itself.

Yep. As long as their is that infinite spigot of money the university system ahs no incentive reimagine itself into something more affordable/sustainable. Which is why I take pity on the current students who have to take out loans. It is fun to say "oh they should work through it" "or their parents should have been responsible" but the fact of the matter is it is nearly impossible to find a job these days that doesn't require a degree that will pay you enough to pay for your education out of pocket (on top of all other living costs) and most parents do not make enough money to put away $160,000 even for a cheap school. The system such as it is really almost forces most students to take out some measure of loans. Especially when you start looking at something like med schools. The whole thing needs to be revamped.

And with all the talk of fairness being thrown around here, I don't think it is very fair to funnel 18 year olds into a system basically designed to saddle them with more debt than they can really handle as soon as they graduate. Forgive all their debt? Maybe, maybe not. But I think it is entirely fair to forgive a chunk of it as long as that is part of a complete overhaul of the higher ed system. 

But you can still go to community colleges for $46 a unit. That's not free, but a person can still knock out the first couple years of college forrelativelycheap.

Yep, and frankly as a country we need to really encourage that. That is what I did, went to a CC for 2 years to bang out the lower tier courses, then transferred and used my GI Bill for my last 2 years. Honestly there is a lot of work to be done from top to bottom.

Most graduates with business and arts degrees will never have the kind of dream job that they so willingly went into debt for. So they should pay up.

Medical, law, and STEM students should be the exception.

"Medical, law, and STEM students should be the exception."

If you want a gear or system of gears to run smoothly, all the teeth will need to be greased, no exceptions.

Not fair to people who paid their loans or did not take student loans

Not fair to people who paid their loans or did not take student loans

It is also not fair that a college education is something that only the wealthy can afford. 

While I wouldn't support a blanket cancelation of all student debt, there needs to be compensation to avoid making higher education exclusive.

It is also not fair that a college education is something that only the wealthy can afford.

There's a whole giant pile of "not fair" in this discussion.

Wealthy people aren't the only ones paying for their own college educations. A lot of people of more moderate means are spending their own money and barely getting it done. They save and they sacrifice. They do without so that they don't have to take out a loan. And then they spend years continuing to live cheaply to refill their savings accounts.

And a lot of people who take out loans could have gone to a less expensive school without getting the loan. But because they could spend someone else's money, they got to select from expensive schools that other people - who didn't take loans - never even considered.

Wealthy people aren't the only ones paying for their own college educations.

Without public or private loans?

A lot of people of more moderate means are spending their own money and barely getting it done.

And having to sacrifice a lot to be able to buy just the needed books.

They do without so that they don't have to take out a loan. And then they spend years continuing to live cheaply to refill their savings accounts.

Which they should not have to do, and often are unable to because they also have families to support.

And a lot of people who take out loans could have gone to a less expensive school without getting the loan.

So quality education is strictly for the wealthy?

Keep in mind that free education, K-12, was created to keep the US competitive in the international job market.  However today, that is not enough, and our education system needs to acknowledge that fact and adjust their current policies.

And before you blindly attack anything I said, I am not advocating free doctorates or anything, I am talking a base education that everyone should have.  Whether that's an Associate's Degree, or a Bachelor's Degree, or something else entirely, needs to be worked out on it's merits.

So quality education is strictly for the wealthy?

High tuition does not necessarily equal quality education. Nor does low tuition equal a poor education. 

Two big reason tuitions are high: 1) universities have gone on a building spree. 2) administration sizes across the country have doubled even though the size of the student body has not. Neither one of these things improves the quality of education.

free education

I support cheaper education, at the very least. If you want to make college free going forward, then find a way to do that that makes economic sense for the country. Forgiving existing government-funded student loans only fucks over the American taxpayer, makes everyone who paid for their own education into a sucker, and forgives irresponsible financial planning.

Basically, not only did I pay for my own education (when I could have gotten a loan and defaulted on it), but I have to pay for someone else's education, too. And I'm supposed to just accept this? Not likely.

You would hope that would be obvious, but the people pushing for this seem oblivious to that fact.

Life isn't fair. I won't get the time I put in for the GI Bill back, but oh well. The system as it stands is unsustainable. 

I won't get the time I put in for the GI Bill back, but oh well

What might make this more analogous to the current proposal is if someone enlisted, but never reported for duty, and still got all the benefits of the GI Bill. I can't believe you would be ok with that.

What might make this more analogous to the current proposal is if someone enlisted, but never reported for duty, and still got all the benefits of the GI Bill.

If you mean took the loans, but never reported to class but still didnt have to pay a dime then I would agree with you. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

Here is what I would do. Make grammar school 7 years instead of 8. Make high school 2 years. Now people entering college would be 15 years old instead of 18. The first two years of college take place in local schools , no one goes away to live in another city to attend the first two years of college. The third and fourth year of college occur at whatever school the student chooses . If they choose to go away to school where the costs are tens of thousands of dollars per year , they can have the government pay for it, only if they agree to do two years of national service right after graduation , for no pay. Only room and board and meals. 

This would get the amount of "student loans" taking place drastically reduced. 

Sorry John...... Engineering students take 10 hours of calculus their freshman year at the age of 18.  The three years prior to that in high school are usually are preparatory algebra and geometry.  The math schedule is too compressed, especially if you toss in the 13 hours of physics and 5 hours of chemistry engineers take their freshman/sophomore years.

I was fortunate to be able to take my 10 hours of calculus my senior year in high school as I was on the AP program.  You can't compress the other two years of math to meet your schedule. 

In order to get rid of the student loan problem we need to remake the education system k-12. More people have to attend college "at home." As we see, most people who take out student loans for college cannot pay them back in any sort of timely way and the interest accrues. We have to have system where far fewer people need student loans of 100,000 dollars or more.  I dont think it is fair to the people who do not attend college or did so years ago to have to subsidize student loan forgiveness, although as a one time thing it might be unavoidable. 

I was fortunate to be able to take my 10 hours of calculus my senior year in high school as I was on the AP program.

I just never "got" calculus. I was great at the theory and knew the formulas, I just never got the math right which frustrated my instructor but he never let me quit.

How about we just go back to the previous system where the states and the feds subsidized education via taxes at a higher rate?  That is where the elevated cost of education came from.  The race to the bottom with state and federal tax cuts has made us a poorer nation.  I doubt that anyone left or right would disagree with the fact that spending on education is the best investment that can be made for our nation.  

My home state of Kansas is a perfect example.  For decades, Kansas was one of the top 5 in the nation with ACT/SAT scores.  The Tea Party types took over the governor's house and the state house.  They cut taxes for business and the wealthy, and now, without the state taxes paying for school funding (and other things like highway maintenance) the schools are turning out kids that are 17th in the nation in ACT/SAT scores and dropping.  

I dont think there are any states that pay for a four year college education , so such a step would be going forward not back. 

I still say eliminate some years of schooling and replace them with national service, which in lieu of pay could fund the persons higher education. How do we know kids need 8 years of grammar school and 4 years of highs school? These numbers have to have been arbitrary when they were first created. 

Only 36% of Americans 25 or older have a four year college degree. Many drop out of school because they cannot afford it or have to work.

If college started earlier more people would go to college. 

Honestly, that is not the worst idea. We still need to decrease costs overall, but that actually makes sense. They never had the money to begin with so they won't miss it. Of course, you have to watch for people cheating on their taxes to increase their returns in order to pay the loans off faster. So the IRS will definitely need some help. 

We could just take any tax returns

I think they should just take the payments right out of their paychecks. Like a three percent tax that goes to pay their loan and it could be a sliding scale so if they earn above a certain amount the percentage goes up.

So, since I paid cash for my education out of my own savings, shouldn't I get a refund?

I paid for my degree with 5 years of my life, who is gonna give me that back? No one? Oh it is too late and life just isn't fair? Seriously, stop with the whining. God you sound like my 6 year old. 

Seriously, stop with the whining. God you sound like my 6 year old. 

How is it whining that I worked hard for something but the government wants to just give the same thing away to someone else who made a commitment and can't live up to it? Explain to me how objecting to this moving standard is whining.

Because times, circumstances, and overall situations change. Nothing is static. I sacrificed for my degree as well but I willingly acknowledge that something has  to give and the amount of debt a lot of graduates have is actually hamstringing the country's overall economic growth. That needs to change.

Is it fair to me? Of course not, no one can give back what I put in. But life is not always fair, and you are not always going to be done right by. Just because I didn't get something good doesn't mean I don't want other people to have it. If my daughters can go to school and not have to take on student loan debts or put in time in a war zone to do it, I want that for them even though it didn't happen for me. Same goes for broader society as a whole, I want the younger generations to be in a better position than mine was. 

I don't want to perpetuate something shitty or not correct a situation just because I got caught in it. 

My sister right now is paying on about 20 grand in debt from her daughter going to Uni.

It actually stops her from being able to do other things. She has had to put off getting a new car and other things while she is stuck paying down the debt.

It will be worth it with a degree yet like you said, it is actually depressing what would be economic output from them.

If my daughters can go to school and not have to take on student loan debts or put in time in a war zone to do it, I want that for them even though it didn't happen for me.

That's different. You're talking about your kids won't be taking on debt in the first place.

It really is foreseeable that if you take on debt, you will have to pay it back. And before you do, you can look critically at the choices you are making in terms of tuition debt incurred and the market for whatever you are majoring to know if you will likely be able to pay back that loan. This debt didn't sneak up on these people.

Now, can we make it easier to pay back? Absolutely. I'm sure there are many ways. But just erase it? Sorry, but if you're asking me, the answer is "fuck no."

It is called being a selfish douchebag.

And really the arguments being put forward are arguments against progress or improvement in general. 

That's different. You're talking about your kids won't be taking on debt in the first place.

I did follow up with broader society, not just my own flesh and blood.

It really is foreseeable that if you take on debt, you will have to pay it back. And before you do, you can look critically at the choices you are making in terms of tuition debt incurred and the market for whatever you are majoring to know if you will likely be able to pay back that loan. This debt didn't sneak up on these people.

Honestly, I think what is being lost in the overall conversation is how we view education, and higher education to begin with. Personally, I don't think the decision to get a degree should be a matter of financial risk. I view it as a national investment in the country's future and everyone should have access should they choose it, without having to take on life altering debts. No other advanced country in the world does it this way, they are onto something. 

As I have said we need to reengineer the entire system from the ground up, but I also don't think it is right that people continue to be punished for being funneled through the current system. And come on, asking an 18 year old to look critically at their potential financial situation years down the road and make an informed decision? I do like that you got jokes though.

Eh, I am just some jackass typing on a computer. I am probably wrong more often than I am right, but at least I will admit it.

Meh, you start giving yourself too much credit and you end up Like Trump. I prefer Socrates.

College costs so much because of federal loan programs, it enabled the bubble to inflate.  Instead of fixing the problem, this will only exacerbate long term. It incentivizes  people to borrow massive amounts because if it debt gets waived now, why not again in 5 years?  So college prices will continue to go up because students will borrow more and more money without worrying about paying it back.