White House reviewing whether Biden can take action to cancel student loan debt

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  texan1211  •  3 weeks ago  •  71 comments

By:   Brett Samuels (MSN)

White House reviewing whether Biden can take action to cancel student loan debt
The White House is reviewing whether President Biden can take unilateral action to cancel federal student loan debt, press secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday, as progressives push the administration to provide relief amid the coronavirus pandemic."The President continues to support the cancelling of student debt to bring relief to students and families," Psaki tweeted. "Our team is reviewing whether there are any steps he can take through...

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White House reviewing whether Biden can take action to cancel student loan debt© Getty White House reviewing whether Biden can take action to cancel student loan debt

The White House is reviewing whether President Biden can take unilateral action to cancel federal student loan debt, press secretary Jen Psaki said Thursday, as progressives push the administration to provide relief amid the coronavirus pandemic.

"The President continues to support the cancelling of student debt to bring relief to students and families," Psaki tweeted. "Our team is reviewing whether there are any steps he can take through executive action and he would welcome the opportunity to sign a bill sent to him by Congress."


The President continues to support the cancelling of student debt to bring relief to students and families. Our team is reviewing whether there are any steps he can take through executive action and he would welcome the opportunity to sign a bill sent to him by Congress.
- Jen Psaki (@PressSec) February 4, 2021

The review is taking place through the White House Office of Legal Counsel.

Psaki's statement marked a shift from the White House, who earlier Thursday had punted on the issue and said Biden would look to Congress to pass a bill on student debt relief.

"The president has and continues to support canceling $10,000 of federal student loan debt per person as a result of the COVID crisis," Psaki said at a press briefing. "If it is passed and sent to his desk, he will look forward to signing it."

Biden previously extended a pause on federally held student loan payments and interest accrual through September, an extension of a Trump administration policy.

Progressive Democrats have pushed Biden since he was elected to wipe out student loan debt. The federal government holds $1.6 trillion in student loan debt, owed by more than 43 million people.

A group of Democratic lawmakers led by Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.) reintroduced a measure earlier Thursday calling on Biden to forgive up to $50,000 in federally held student debt per borrower.

"There's very little the president could do with a flick of a pen that would boost our economy more than canceling $50,000 in student debt," Schumer said.

Supporters argue that Biden has the authority and responsibility to forgive student debt as the coronavirus pandemic roils the U.S. economy and imposes the greatest burden on those least able to afford it.

The push to erase student loan debt is likely to run into GOP opposition, and some critics have questioned whether the Education secretary has the legal power to forgive student debt.

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Texan1211
PhD Principal
1  seeder  Texan1211    3 weeks ago

Wow.

Just cancel student debt?

Ridiculous.

I can see putting payments on hold, and even foregoing interest, but just to cancel debt owed to the government (taxpayers)?

Gee, maybe the Biden Administration should look at cancelling mortgages, too!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2  Thrawn 31    3 weeks ago

It would definitely be helpful if young professionals were not spending the first 5-10 years of their careers paying off the debt the incurred for their degrees rather than buying homes, cars, or otherwise injecting their income back into the overall economy. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2    3 weeks ago

It would also be extremely helpful if people pay back money they willingly borrowed--knowing that it needed to be repaid.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1    3 weeks ago

We need to restructure higher ed from top to bottom IMO.

It is insane to me to on the one hand acknowledge that the only way to remain competitive is by maintaining a well educated, professional workforce, yet at the same time force those who make up that workforce to take on large amounts of, in some cases (doctors/dentists etc.) crippling, debt to join that workforce. Frankly it seems as though we are actively working against our own best interests when it comes to how higher ed is funded. 

I am fine if the govt cancels out current student debt, but it has to be a part of an overall restructuring of how higher education is funded in the first place. Just doing a one time cancellation doesn't at all fix the problem, it just resets the numbers so they can start growing again immediately and we are in the exact same boat 20 years from now. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.2  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago
Just doing a one time cancellation doesn't at all fix the problem, it just resets the numbers so they can start growing again immediately and we are in the exact same boat 20 years from now. 

That sounds like a perfect argument against amnesty for illegal aliens.

People who take on debt should repay it.

One reason for the exorbitant costs of education is the federal government being so heavily involved through guaranteeing student loans. 

Plus, we have some colleges where a "professor" making over 100k teaches one class a week.

 
 
 
gooseisgone
Senior Quiet
2.1.3  gooseisgone  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago
I am fine if the govt cancels out current student debt

What about the responsible parents and students that worked and put their kids through college, we just get screwed. 

Oh I guess we should have takin out loans in hopes of a Democrat winning the Presidency.   If you sign your name you should pay the debt, plain and simple otherwise you are picking winners and losers.  

Want to stop this in the future make the Colleges finance the education of it's students. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    3 weeks ago
That sounds like a perfect argument against amnesty for illegal aliens.

Completely different issues that are in no way comparable. Make the same argument on immigration or whatever if you want, but don't compare the issues of student loan debt/higher ed structure and illegal immigration. To totally different animals. 

People who take on debt should repay it.

Yeah , but when you are fucking yourself by issuing and holding people to the debt in the first place, and you can always print more money if you need to, then it is time to rethink whether it is worth it to collect.

One reason for the exorbitant costs of education is the federal government being so heavily involved through guaranteeing student loans. 

Agreed. Universities have been able to avoid seriously addressing the issue so far in large part because the federal government is and endless source of money. Hence why the federal government also has the ability to force needed changes to the university system structure. If the feds said "we aren't issuing student loans anymore" universities would be bankrupt within a semester. I am all about pulling a Taiwan and examining the university systems of other countries around the world, taking the best aspects of them, and completely overhauling ours by incorporating what we learn. What we are doing now is completely unsustainable. There is no fucking way a degree from the university I previously worked at should cost $40,000+ a year. 

Plus, we have some colleges where a "professor" making over 100k teaches one class a week.

That betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of what professors are at the university to do. Which is something else that needs to be addressed. IMO there needs to be a clear differentiation between research universities, and educational universities.

Right now the two are the same thing and 95% of the professors have one primary job, research and publication. Yes, they have to teach a couple courses, but their main job is conducting their research and being published in appropriate journals. If they aren't being published they are out of the job because the research and publication of findings is what brings in grant $s for the department. The professors are not their to teach, that is something they have to do on the side, they are primarily there to expand the knowledge base of their chosen field. 

Which is fine with me, but I think that if you separated the two, educating students, and research, it would be best for both parties. Maybe have 2 different systems, one for your general bachelors degree, and if you choose to pursue graduate school then you attend a research university where you are actively assisting the professors in their research while attaining your degree. 

Who knows, I could be totally wrong, but it doesn't seem like what we are doing now is really working well for anyone. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.5  Thrawn 31  replied to  gooseisgone @2.1.3    3 weeks ago
What about the responsible parents and students that worked and put their kids through college, we just get screwed. 

Sucks.

Oh I guess we should have takin out loans in hopes of a Democrat winning the Presidency.   If you sign your name you should pay the debt, plain and simple otherwise you are picking winners and losers.  

Or acknowledging that a situation is untenable and needs a complete overhaul.

Want to stop this in the future make the Colleges finance the education of it's students. 

Something definitely has to give. But smarter people than me get paid to figure that out. Or at least they should.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
2.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago
Just doing a one time cancellation doesn't at all fix the problem

You're right about that, but it would be consistent with the way our politicians govern.

The precedent is amnesty for illegal aliens without fixing any of the problems that make them come here illegally in the first place (or stay illegally) and allow them to get away with it. So new people come or stay here illegally. All they have to do is wait for new amnesty.

Now they want to just give amnesty to debt without fixing any of the problems that create it in the first place. So future students will just incur more debt. All they have to do is wait for new amnesty.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.7  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.4    3 weeks ago
Completely different issues that are in no way comparable. Make the same argument on immigration or whatever if you want, but don't compare the issues of student loan debt/higher ed structure and illegal immigration. To totally different animals. 

I am sorry you can not see the similarities between granting a "one time" amnesty and forgiving student loans one time, even though you yourself pointed out the futility of only doing it once.

Good luck getting professors with tenure to give up their perks. They will never endorse anything that endangers their livelihood and the prospect of making even more money.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.8  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.7    3 weeks ago
I am sorry you can not see the similarities between granting a "one time" amnesty and forgiving student loans one time, even though you yourself pointed out the futility of only doing it once.

You are looking at the issues in the most simplistic, dumbass way possible. If you don't want to have a serious discussion on the issues then just say that right off the bat.

Good luck getting professors with tenure to give up their perks. They will never endorse anything that endangers their livelihood and the prospect of making even more money.

Who cares, they can either have a job or not. I don't have a problem with proving a certain amount of job security, after all not all research projects produce the desired fruit. But results still need to matter. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.9  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.8    3 weeks ago
You are looking at the issues in the most simplistic, dumbass way possible. If you don't want to have a serious discussion on the issues then just say that right off the bat.

Then quit responding to me if it bothers you so fucking much.

How you take whatever I say is your problem, not mine.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.10  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.9    3 weeks ago

Ah you are right, my apologies for thinking you might have anything interesting to say at some point and not just drop down into "own the libs" mode. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.11  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.1.10    3 weeks ago

No apology asked for nor needed.

What you find interesting isn't my concern.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.1.12  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.11    3 weeks ago

Lol, it is your every concern.

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
2.2  zuksam  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2    3 weeks ago

How is that fair to all the people who paid off their debts ? Or to the people who didn't get an education because they knew they couldn't afford it. How about the mothers and fathers who spent their savings sending their children to school. These people didn't ask for or get any freebees so why should they pay for someone else's bills. The people who borrowed the money got what they wanted an education now they have to pay for it and that's the way it should be. If the president wants to do something he might investigate why the hell school costs so damn much.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.2.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  zuksam @2.2    3 weeks ago

Welp, life just isn't fair is it? Sometimes decisions need to be made and some people get the shaft. Sucks but that is the way of the world.

The people who borrowed the money got what they wanted an education now they have to pay for it and that's the way it should be. If the president wants to do something he might investigate why the hell school costs so damn much.

Not when it has become a serious economic concern and is kinda fucking the country as a whole. Again, if we want to stay competitive globally then we need an educated workforce, we should not be hamstringing ourselves by making it so fucking expensive that people leave school owing tens of thousands of $s in debt. That is retarded. It isn't the student's fault their tuition is $10,000 plus a semester, it is the structural mess that is higher ed funding. 

Personally I don't care much if you were "responsible" or not and didn't have to take out loans. I was responsible and served 5 years in the USMC and then proceeded to use my GI Bill for my degree, but I will also acknowledge when something has spiraled out of control and needs to be fixed even if I won't benefit from it. I won't get back those 5 years or the 2 I spent in Iraq, but I am not a selfish bitch so I am not going to pitch a fit about it. Something NEEDS to change.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
2.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
Welp, life just isn't fair is it?

Meh. This isn't "life." It's "politics." "Life" would be where a person takes out a loan, can't pay it back, and the bank takes his car or garnishes his paycheck or something. Or anticipating that dark consequence, a person chooses instead to either save up for college, spend less money doing it, or find an alternative path. That's "life" for most people in the normal world.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.2.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @2.2.2    3 weeks ago
"Life" would be where a person takes out a loan, can't pay it back, and the bank takes his car or garnishes his paycheck or something.

Call me crazy but I don't think we should be looking at education like that. It is a national investment in our country's future and should be treated as such.

Or anticipating that dark consequence, a person chooses instead to either save up for college, spend less money doing it, or find an alternative path. That's "life" for most people in the normal world.

Since most American households are living paycheck to paycheck, saving up for college in any significant way isn't really an option. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
2.3  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2    3 weeks ago

A real easy way to avoid that is to go to a cheaper school.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.3.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @2.3    3 weeks ago

Even the "cheap" schools are stupid expensive. I worked for a "cheap" university, in-state tuition last fall was a little under $20,000 a semester.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
2.3.2  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

That's insane, though I know it's happening all over. One of the reasons is that government makes these guaranteed loans available, so these schools jack up the tuition and use the cash to hire more unnecessary staff and erect new buildings. The problem created and perpetuates itself.

For a long time in California, tuition at state colleges was free (even the UCs). Now I think it's minimum $14K (in-state) before fees and supplies. But you can still go to community colleges for $46 a unit. That's not free, but a person can still knock out the first couple years of college for relatively cheap.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
2.3.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
That's insane, though I know it's happening all over. One of the reasons is that government makes these guaranteed loans available, so these schools jack up the tuition and use the cash to hire more unnecessary staff and erect new buildings. The problem created and perpetuates itself.

Yep. As long as their is that infinite spigot of money the university system ahs no incentive reimagine itself into something more affordable/sustainable. Which is why I take pity on the current students who have to take out loans. It is fun to say "oh they should work through it" "or their parents should have been responsible" but the fact of the matter is it is nearly impossible to find a job these days that doesn't require a degree that will pay you enough to pay for your education out of pocket (on top of all other living costs) and most parents do not make enough money to put away $160,000 even for a cheap school. The system such as it is really almost forces most students to take out some measure of loans. Especially when you start looking at something like med schools. The whole thing needs to be revamped.

And with all the talk of fairness being thrown around here, I don't think it is very fair to funnel 18 year olds into a system basically designed to saddle them with more debt than they can really handle as soon as they graduate. Forgive all their debt? Maybe, maybe not. But I think it is entirely fair to forgive a chunk of it as long as that is part of a complete overhaul of the higher ed system. 

But you can still go to community colleges for $46 a unit. That's not free, but a person can still knock out the first couple years of college forrelativelycheap.

Yep, and frankly as a country we need to really encourage that. That is what I did, went to a CC for 2 years to bang out the lower tier courses, then transferred and used my GI Bill for my last 2 years. Honestly there is a lot of work to be done from top to bottom.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Senior Participates
3  Greg Jones    3 weeks ago

Most graduates with business and arts degrees will never have the kind of dream job that they so willingly went into debt for. So they should pay up.

Medical, law, and STEM students should be the exception.

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Participates
3.1  Hallux  replied to  Greg Jones @3    3 weeks ago
"Medical, law, and STEM students should be the exception."
If you want a gear or system of gears to run smoothly, all the teeth will need to be greased, no exceptions.

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
4  charger 383    3 weeks ago

Not fair to people who paid their loans or did not take student loans

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
4.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  charger 383 @4    3 weeks ago

This was never about "fairness".

It is just another vote-getting give-away.

Isn't it rather interesting that some of the very people who benefitted from receiving loans for education are now in Congress and asking Biden to cancel their debts!

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
4.2  Ozzwald  replied to  charger 383 @4    3 weeks ago
Not fair to people who paid their loans or did not take student loans

It is also not fair that a college education is something that only the wealthy can afford. 

While I wouldn't support a blanket cancelation of all student debt, there needs to be compensation to avoid making higher education exclusive.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
4.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2    3 weeks ago
It is also not fair that a college education is something that only the wealthy can afford.

There's a whole giant pile of "not fair" in this discussion.

Wealthy people aren't the only ones paying for their own college educations. A lot of people of more moderate means are spending their own money and barely getting it done. They save and they sacrifice. They do without so that they don't have to take out a loan. And then they spend years continuing to live cheaply to refill their savings accounts.

And a lot of people who take out loans could have gone to a less expensive school without getting the loan. But because they could spend someone else's money, they got to select from expensive schools that other people - who didn't take loans - never even considered.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
4.2.2  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @4.2.1    3 weeks ago
Wealthy people aren't the only ones paying for their own college educations.

Without public or private loans?

A lot of people of more moderate means are spending their own money and barely getting it done.

And having to sacrifice a lot to be able to buy just the needed books.

They do without so that they don't have to take out a loan. And then they spend years continuing to live cheaply to refill their savings accounts.

Which they should not have to do, and often are unable to because they also have families to support.

And a lot of people who take out loans could have gone to a less expensive school without getting the loan.

So quality education is strictly for the wealthy?

Keep in mind that free education, K-12, was created to keep the US competitive in the international job market.  However today, that is not enough, and our education system needs to acknowledge that fact and adjust their current policies.

And before you blindly attack anything I said, I am not advocating free doctorates or anything, I am talking a base education that everyone should have.  Whether that's an Associate's Degree, or a Bachelor's Degree, or something else entirely, needs to be worked out on it's merits.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
4.2.3  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @4.2.2    3 weeks ago
So quality education is strictly for the wealthy?

High tuition does not necessarily equal quality education. Nor does low tuition equal a poor education. 

Two big reason tuitions are high: 1) universities have gone on a building spree. 2) administration sizes across the country have doubled even though the size of the student body has not. Neither one of these things improves the quality of education.

free education

I support cheaper education, at the very least. If you want to make college free going forward, then find a way to do that that makes economic sense for the country. Forgiving existing government-funded student loans only fucks over the American taxpayer, makes everyone who paid for their own education into a sucker, and forgives irresponsible financial planning.

Basically, not only did I pay for my own education (when I could have gotten a loan and defaulted on it), but I have to pay for someone else's education, too. And I'm supposed to just accept this? Not likely.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
4.3  Tacos!  replied to  charger 383 @4    3 weeks ago

You would hope that would be obvious, but the people pushing for this seem oblivious to that fact.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
4.4  Thrawn 31  replied to  charger 383 @4    3 weeks ago

Life isn't fair. I won't get the time I put in for the GI Bill back, but oh well. The system as it stands is unsustainable. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
4.4.1  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.4    3 weeks ago
I won't get the time I put in for the GI Bill back, but oh well

What might make this more analogous to the current proposal is if someone enlisted, but never reported for duty, and still got all the benefits of the GI Bill. I can't believe you would be ok with that.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
4.4.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @4.4.1    3 weeks ago
What might make this more analogous to the current proposal is if someone enlisted, but never reported for duty, and still got all the benefits of the GI Bill.

If you mean took the loans, but never reported to class but still didnt have to pay a dime then I would agree with you. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

Here is what I would do. Make grammar school 7 years instead of 8. Make high school 2 years. Now people entering college would be 15 years old instead of 18. The first two years of college take place in local schools , no one goes away to live in another city to attend the first two years of college. The third and fourth year of college occur at whatever school the student chooses . If they choose to go away to school where the costs are tens of thousands of dollars per year , they can have the government pay for it, only if they agree to do two years of national service right after graduation , for no pay. Only room and board and meals. 

This would get the amount of "student loans" taking place drastically reduced. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
5.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5    3 weeks ago

Few 15-year-olds are capable of college-level work.

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
5.1.1  zuksam  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1    3 weeks ago

Few College age kids are either. If they aren't capable at 15 they never will be and should probably consider a trade school.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
5.2  FLYNAVY1  replied to  JohnRussell @5    3 weeks ago

Sorry John...... Engineering students take 10 hours of calculus their freshman year at the age of 18.  The three years prior to that in high school are usually are preparatory algebra and geometry.  The math schedule is too compressed, especially if you toss in the 13 hours of physics and 5 hours of chemistry engineers take their freshman/sophomore years.

I was fortunate to be able to take my 10 hours of calculus my senior year in high school as I was on the AP program.  You can't compress the other two years of math to meet your schedule. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.1  JohnRussell  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.2    3 weeks ago

In order to get rid of the student loan problem we need to remake the education system k-12. More people have to attend college "at home." As we see, most people who take out student loans for college cannot pay them back in any sort of timely way and the interest accrues. We have to have system where far fewer people need student loans of 100,000 dollars or more.  I dont think it is fair to the people who do not attend college or did so years ago to have to subsidize student loan forgiveness, although as a one time thing it might be unavoidable. 

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Participates
5.2.2  evilgenius  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.2    3 weeks ago
I was fortunate to be able to take my 10 hours of calculus my senior year in high school as I was on the AP program.

I just never "got" calculus. I was great at the theory and knew the formulas, I just never got the math right which frustrated my instructor but he never let me quit.

 
 
 
FLYNAVY1
Professor Expert
5.2.3  FLYNAVY1  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

How about we just go back to the previous system where the states and the feds subsidized education via taxes at a higher rate?  That is where the elevated cost of education came from.  The race to the bottom with state and federal tax cuts has made us a poorer nation.  I doubt that anyone left or right would disagree with the fact that spending on education is the best investment that can be made for our nation.  

My home state of Kansas is a perfect example.  For decades, Kansas was one of the top 5 in the nation with ACT/SAT scores.  The Tea Party types took over the governor's house and the state house.  They cut taxes for business and the wealthy, and now, without the state taxes paying for school funding (and other things like highway maintenance) the schools are turning out kids that are 17th in the nation in ACT/SAT scores and dropping.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
5.2.4  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @5.2.1    3 weeks ago

We could just take any tax returns these educated, money-making college people are due until their loans are paid off entirely.

Doesn't require revamping of the whole educational system.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.2.5  JohnRussell  replied to  FLYNAVY1 @5.2.3    3 weeks ago

I dont think there are any states that pay for a four year college education , so such a step would be going forward not back. 

I still say eliminate some years of schooling and replace them with national service, which in lieu of pay could fund the persons higher education. How do we know kids need 8 years of grammar school and 4 years of highs school? These numbers have to have been arbitrary when they were first created. 

Only 36% of Americans 25 or older have a four year college degree. Many drop out of school because they cannot afford it or have to work.

If college started earlier more people would go to college. 

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
5.2.6  Thrawn 31  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.4    3 weeks ago

Honestly, that is not the worst idea. We still need to decrease costs overall, but that actually makes sense. They never had the money to begin with so they won't miss it. Of course, you have to watch for people cheating on their taxes to increase their returns in order to pay the loans off faster. So the IRS will definitely need some help. 

 
 
 
zuksam
Sophomore Silent
5.2.7  zuksam  replied to  Texan1211 @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
We could just take any tax returns

I think they should just take the payments right out of their paychecks. Like a three percent tax that goes to pay their loan and it could be a sliding scale so if they earn above a certain amount the percentage goes up.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
6  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

So, since I paid cash for my education out of my own savings, shouldn't I get a refund?

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
6.1  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Tacos! @6    3 weeks ago

Some aren't really interested in any sense of fairness here.

College can be and IS done every single year by students who work themselves through it.

Some students' parents thoughtfully provide funds for their own kids' educations!

But hey, let's give a giant FU you to folks who worked hard, figured it out, AND somehow paid back their loans.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
6.1.1  Tacos!  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1    3 weeks ago

College is overrated, anyway. I know several people who work with their hands for a living and make quite a bit of money and they did it without college. Honestly, our society could probably use a few more of those people.

But even if you do go to college, a lot of people get degrees in things that don't pay very well anyway. They spend 100 grand or more on some liberal arts degree that will never pay back on the investment.

(I'm not knocking liberal arts. They're fine. I'm just trying to point out that it's usually a poor way to get rich.)

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Guide
6.1.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1    3 weeks ago

Reminiscent of the DACA and "path to citizenship" crowd. I have friends/associates who did it the right way and are pissed with all this talk of legalizing.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
6.1.3  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @6.1.2    3 weeks ago

Of course they are pissed.

And we can't blame them, either.

But I have been told that is looking at it in the mot simplistic, dumbass way possible.

Go figure!

 
 
 
JaneDoe
Sophomore Silent
6.1.4  JaneDoe  replied to  Texan1211 @6.1    3 weeks ago
College can be and IS done every single year by students who work themselves through it. Some students' parents thoughtfully provide funds for their own kids' educations!

Exactly! I worked myself through it and admit it wasn’t easy. That is why we started a tap fund for our son when he was around 4. When the time for college rolled around we had it covered except for books and meal plans. 
Of course we did without all those so called, keep up with the Jones’s necessities like 2 new cars in the driveway, the t.v that covers your whole wall, all the latest electronic gadgets etc... 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
6.1.5  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  JaneDoe @6.1.4    3 weeks ago

Oh, gee, ya'll were being responsible!

How dare we expect the same from others!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @6    3 weeks ago

I paid for my degree with 5 years of my life, who is gonna give me that back? No one? Oh it is too late and life just isn't fair? Seriously, stop with the whining. God you sound like my 6 year old. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
6.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2    3 weeks ago
Seriously, stop with the whining. God you sound like my 6 year old. 

How is it whining that I worked hard for something but the government wants to just give the same thing away to someone else who made a commitment and can't live up to it? Explain to me how objecting to this moving standard is whining.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2.2  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @6.2.1    3 weeks ago

Because times, circumstances, and overall situations change. Nothing is static. I sacrificed for my degree as well but I willingly acknowledge that something has  to give and the amount of debt a lot of graduates have is actually hamstringing the country's overall economic growth. That needs to change.

Is it fair to me? Of course not, no one can give back what I put in. But life is not always fair, and you are not always going to be done right by. Just because I didn't get something good doesn't mean I don't want other people to have it. If my daughters can go to school and not have to take on student loan debts or put in time in a war zone to do it, I want that for them even though it didn't happen for me. Same goes for broader society as a whole, I want the younger generations to be in a better position than mine was. 

I don't want to perpetuate something shitty or not correct a situation just because I got caught in it. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
6.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.2    3 weeks ago
"Because times, circumstances, and overall situations change. Nothing is static. I sacrificed for my degree as well but I willingly acknowledge that something has  to give and the amount of debt a lot of graduates have is actually hamstringing the country's overall economic growth. That needs to change.

Is it fair to me? Of course not, no one can give back what I put in. But life is not always fair, and you are not always going to be done right by. Just because I didn't get something good doesn't mean I don't want other people to have it. If my daughters can go to school and not have to take on student loan debts or put in time in a war zone to do it, I want that for them even though it didn't happen for me. Same goes for broader society as a whole, I want the younger generations to be in a better position than mine was. 

I don't want to perpetuate something shitty or not correct a situation just because I got caught in it"

Isn't it interesting how those before you used that ladder to climb to success, but want to pull it away from others trying to obtain the same?

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
6.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.2    3 weeks ago

You hit the nail right on the head every single time thrawn - and every single time I want to give you a:

giphy-downsized.gif

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
6.2.5  Ender  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.2    3 weeks ago

My sister right now is paying on about 20 grand in debt from her daughter going to Uni.

It actually stops her from being able to do other things. She has had to put off getting a new car and other things while she is stuck paying down the debt.

It will be worth it with a degree yet like you said, it is actually depressing what would be economic output from them.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Guide
6.2.6  Tacos!  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.2    3 weeks ago
If my daughters can go to school and not have to take on student loan debts or put in time in a war zone to do it, I want that for them even though it didn't happen for me.

That's different. You're talking about your kids won't be taking on debt in the first place.

It really is foreseeable that if you take on debt, you will have to pay it back. And before you do, you can look critically at the choices you are making in terms of tuition debt incurred and the market for whatever you are majoring to know if you will likely be able to pay back that loan. This debt didn't sneak up on these people.

Now, can we make it easier to pay back? Absolutely. I'm sure there are many ways. But just erase it? Sorry, but if you're asking me, the answer is "fuck no."

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2.7  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tessylo @6.2.3    3 weeks ago

It is called being a selfish douchebag.

And really the arguments being put forward are arguments against progress or improvement in general. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
6.2.8  seeder  Texan1211  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.7    3 weeks ago

The arguments are against a massive govt.

give away program and folks unwilling to pay their debts.

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
6.2.9  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.7    3 weeks ago

Again, you hit the nail right on the head!

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2.10  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tacos! @6.2.6    3 weeks ago
That's different. You're talking about your kids won't be taking on debt in the first place.

I did follow up with broader society, not just my own flesh and blood.

It really is foreseeable that if you take on debt, you will have to pay it back. And before you do, you can look critically at the choices you are making in terms of tuition debt incurred and the market for whatever you are majoring to know if you will likely be able to pay back that loan. This debt didn't sneak up on these people.

Honestly, I think what is being lost in the overall conversation is how we view education, and higher education to begin with. Personally, I don't think the decision to get a degree should be a matter of financial risk. I view it as a national investment in the country's future and everyone should have access should they choose it, without having to take on life altering debts. No other advanced country in the world does it this way, they are onto something. 

As I have said we need to reengineer the entire system from the ground up, but I also don't think it is right that people continue to be punished for being funneled through the current system. And come on, asking an 18 year old to look critically at their potential financial situation years down the road and make an informed decision? I do like that you got jokes though.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2.11  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tessylo @6.2.4    3 weeks ago

Eh, I am just some jackass typing on a computer. I am probably wrong more often than I am right, but at least I will admit it.

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
6.2.12  Tessylo  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.2.11    3 weeks ago

You need to give yourself a bit more credit than that, but I appreciate what you say and how you say it.  

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
6.2.13  Thrawn 31  replied to  Tessylo @6.2.12    3 weeks ago

Meh, you start giving yourself too much credit and you end up Like Trump. I prefer Socrates.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Guide
7  Sean Treacy    3 weeks ago

College costs so much because of federal loan programs, it enabled the bubble to inflate.  Instead of fixing the problem, this will only exacerbate long term. It incentivizes  people to borrow massive amounts because if it debt gets waived now, why not again in 5 years?  So college prices will continue to go up because students will borrow more and more money without worrying about paying it back.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
8  Kathleen    3 weeks ago

My daughters in her third year. As of now, she has no debt, we invested in a  529 account for her when she was born. She may need a small loan for her 4th year and part of her 5th year to get her teaching degree. We may put more into it with my in-laws house we are selling this year. So, she won’t have much of a loan. I have friends that have kids in college that have  big loans. I wonder how they will ever pay it back. I hope they make the most out of investing all that money in that college. 

My daughter did not go to a Ivy League college, but she did go to a decent 4 year university. So she will graduate without being in high debt.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Senior Guide
8.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Kathleen @8    3 weeks ago

Good for her. I am glad your daughter will star out well enough.

But what about the daughter of a single mother, who could barely afford a roof and food (certainly couldn't afford to save for college for her kids), who was just out of the running for a full ride scholarship but got a partial. Even still the $6000 is more than she can afford working for $10 an hour and trying to pay other living expenses. And so she has to drop out, and go back to her mother's house... Or she gets to start taking on thousands upon thousands of $s in loans to acheive her dream of a college education. Of course no one told her what comes next. 

That is the kind of shit we are talking about here. What about the kids who have the brains, but their families don't have the money or the pull to get them to where they should be? 

Should we waste the brains? Our country seems to be in dire need of those as is.

 
 
 
Kathleen
PhD Principal
8.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  Thrawn 31 @8.1    3 weeks ago

There are 3 of her friends that can’t afford college. Their plan is to work for a few years and save for it later. You don’t have to go right out of high school. Some students work full time for a few years to help pay for 2 years of community college then transfer their credits to a 4 year university. They will have some debt, but not a lot. She is working also, at night. So she can help with the rest of the tuition. You can go to college any age. In one of her classes, there are 2 students in their 70’s. They have their whole lives ahead of them, their brains won’t be wasted. 

Some people have to work for a few years first, then go. 

 
 
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