The Presidential Stress Test Failure Project

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  cb  •  4 weeks ago  •  94 comments

The Presidential Stress Test Failure Project
We should convict and forbid Donald Trump any future public office to fashion into a weapon that could end our democratic form of governance.

This is our singular moment, or term of presidency, for the Senate to 'take down' what is left of our own 'tyrant-President.' We should convict and forbid former President Donald J. Trump any future public office to fashion into a weapon that could end our democratic form of governance.

There is a reason why U.S. presidents serve their four year terms without "stress-testing" the American presidency.

We are the exceptional model of democracy that the world looks up to (or, we used to be so).  As such an entity for this world's people we have a stewardship to maintain a high(er) standard of rule of law, efficiency, and impeccability.

A direct effort to commit to striving for a more perfect union. Instead, we were forced to have put on display to the international community, an American President's 'murderous' and treasonous tendencies.

Moreover, for all intents and purposes Donald Trump is committed and "promised" to get away with it. All due to a Republican Party disarming itself and our nation before one solitary man who would be our King. 

Today, our nation is caught in a web of Republican Party advocacy that will not 'repair the breach' blown into our national ship of state. Nor will our government be allowed "self-correction" of the harm done it by its 45th president: Donald J. Trump.

How can the republicans find fault with any other political party? The Republican Party and its supporters can not criticize democrats! Their own hypocrisy stinks and smells (like trash) to the highest levels and across our planet.

As such, this hypocrisy will aid in the removal of many decent foreign governments and freed people who fight tyrannical outlaw regimes the world over.

All because the United States Republican Party is too short-sighted and greedy for its own embellishment to see the danger one man, Donald J. Trump has and continues to cause our great country.


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CB
Professor Principal
1  author  CB     4 weeks ago

There is a reason why U.S. presidents serve their four year terms without "stress-testing" the American presidency.

We are the exceptional model of democracy that the world looks up to (or, we used to be so).  As such an entity for this world's people we have a stewardship to maintain a high(er) standard of rule of law, efficiency, and impeccability.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2  Nerm_L    4 weeks ago

Yes, there are compelling political arguments for the impeachment and conviction of Trump.  I hope everyone realizes that impeaching Trump only confirms the Qanon Deep State conspiracy theories.  Convicting Trump won't achieve what everyone seems to think it will achieve.

Striking a match really can start a wild fire that can't be stopped.  And, right now, Democrats are playing with matches.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2    4 weeks ago

How can there be "compelling arguments" to impeach, convict, and forbid future public office to Donald Trump and it be a democratic party problem? Do tell.

Or, can it be you can not bring yourself to a position where a former president who refused to stop 'punching this nation in its political face' you can criticize? Tell me is liking Donald Trump's ideology worth all the "H" unleashed upon innocent citizens of this country? How about the open "H" being taken advantaged of by repulsive dictators and tyrants (like Putin) who will point to our republican party who shelter this man from his proper comeuppance under our (political) authority?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.1  Nerm_L  replied to  CB @2.1    4 weeks ago
How can there be "compelling arguments" to impeach, convict, and forbid future public office to Donald Trump and it be a democratic party problem? Do tell.

Because Democrats (along with the press) have twisted what occurred into a much larger political narrative for political advantage.  Impeachment isn't the only avenue to address Trump's role in the riot.  The justifications expressed for impeachment haven't been apolitical or non-partisan.  The rather obvious coordination between Democrats and the press only feeds the Deep State conspiracy.

In the Qanon world, the riot was an attack on the Deep State.  The rioters did not attack anything other than a symbol of Deep State hidden agendas with rather obvious intent to intimidate those holding political power over the Deep State.  The riot was an attack specifically targeted at a specific political function of government; not an attack on the government itself and not an attack on society at large.  

In Qanon world, the impeachment is being conducted by the Deep State to protect the Deep State.  The political theater of impeachment provides its own evidence of a Deep State conspiracy.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
Impeachment isn't the only avenue to address Trump's role in the riot. 

I do find it interesting for all the rhetoric coming out of Washington, Trump has not been arrested and charged with anything.

And Democrats declare it an open-and-shut case.

HA!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.3  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
The justifications expressed for impeachment haven't been apolitical or non-partisan.

What does any of that (true or suspect) have to do with anything? Not a thing. The issue you are desperately attempting to avoid is this:

President Donald Trump is being impeached (he is the only official who can be in this) because of his behavior, conduct, and involvement in an attack on the first branch of our federal system of governance.

STOP! Ask yourself: Why don't you want Donald Trump 'prosecuted' for activities and (mis)deeds related to after November election?

All the peripherals (Q-ANON and Others) will stand up and take their prosecutions accordingly.  The 'deep-state' bull-patty will be dealt with also.

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
2.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

Nothing was twisted.  What a load of bullshit!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.5  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

Our presidents should not 'over-stress' the office. For all the reasons that have bubbled/bubbling to the fore now.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.6  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.1.5    4 weeks ago
Our presidents should not 'over-stress' the office.

Could you possibly more vague?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.7  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

Would it help you display more depth? (Read the opinion at the top.)

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.8  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.1.7    4 weeks ago

Only if you don't use such useless terms such as "overstress the office"--whatever the heck THAT is.

You could merely try to define what you mean when you say such vague things.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.9  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.8    4 weeks ago

Okay, what else? How can the republicans find fault with any other political party? The Republican Party and its supporters can not criticize democrats!

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.1.9    4 weeks ago

You are all over the place. I asked for what you meant by "overstressing the office", and you deflect to the GOP?

Whoo Boy!

And thinking that ANY political party is beyond criticism is plain wrong and delusional.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.11  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.10    4 weeks ago

Okay, you're just consuming digits now. I will get back to you—maybe.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.12  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.1.11    4 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
2.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.1.11    4 weeks ago

Meh.

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.14  Dulay  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.2    3 weeks ago

Don't you think that an AG being confirmed comes first? 

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.1    3 weeks ago
Because Democrats (along with the press) have twisted what occurred into a much larger political narrative for political advantage. 

How the fuck can an insurrection be twisted into a LARGER political narrative? 

Impeachment isn't the only avenue to address Trump's role in the riot. 

Point? 

The justifications expressed for impeachment haven't been apolitical or non-partisan. 

Impeachment is inherently a political act. 

The rather obvious coordination between Democrats and the press only feeds the Deep State conspiracy.

What does the documented coordination between the Republicans and Trump's defense attorneys feed? 

Oh and BTFW, those who believe in the Deep State conspiracy feed off of just about every delusion one can name. 

In the Qanon world, the riot was an attack on the Deep State.  The rioters did not attack anything other than a symbol of Deep State hidden agendas with rather obvious intent to intimidate those holding political power over the Deep State.  The riot was an attack specifically targeted at a specific political function of government; not an attack on the government itself and not an attack on society at large.  

More argle-bargle.

The insurrectionists attacked the 'specific political function of government', codified in the Constitution, to count the votes of the American people and certify their choice for who leads 'the government itself' and therefore represents our 'society at large' to the rest of the world. 

In Qanon world, the impeachment is being conducted by the Deep State to protect the Deep State.  The political theater of impeachment provides its own evidence of a Deep State conspiracy.

Why should we care about Qanon world machinations? Is it your posit that the US government or the society at large should give credence to that bat shit crazy crap?  

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.16  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @2.1.15    3 weeks ago
How the fuck can an insurrection be twisted into a LARGER political narrative? 

If there was an insurrection then how was that insurrection put down?  Insurrections don't end by people just walking away.

What does the documented coordination between the Republicans and Trump's defense attorneys feed? 

That's a political response to a political action.  The prosecutors are members of the House and are politicians with a vested interest in using impeachment for political advantage.  

The insurrectionists attacked the 'specific political function of government', codified in the Constitution, to count the votes of the American people and certify their choice for who leads 'the government itself' and therefore represents our 'society at large' to the rest of the world. 

Oddly there doesn't seem to be any video of how the so called insurrection ended.  The House impeachment managers didn't produce evidence of how the insurrectionists were driven out of the Capitol and the insurrection put down.

So, where are those insurrectionists now?  The crowd simply dispersing on its own doesn't seem to fit the political narrative of insurrection.  The crowd walking away of its own accord doesn't even fit the new normal for protests.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.1.17  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.16    3 weeks ago
If there was an insurrection

OMG where have you been ? Under a rock ? Did you not see any of the footage of it in the last few days ?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.18  Nerm_L  replied to  pat wilson @2.1.17    3 weeks ago
OMG where have you been ? Under a rock ? Did you not see any of the footage of it in the last few days ?

I haven't seen any videos of how the so called insurrection was put down.  The Senate reconvened the same day.

The videos being shown by the House impeachment managers is more sedate than what has transpired around the country since 2014.  The Capitol building didn't become a smoldering ruin as has happened in many cities over the last six years.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.19  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.18    3 weeks ago
... the so called insurrection ...

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.1.20  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.18    3 weeks ago

I haven't seen any videos of how the so called insurrection was put down.  T

So there wasn't 1,100 National Guard deployed ? Cause you didn't see it ? You must have slept through the whole thing.

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.21  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.16    3 weeks ago
If there was an insurrection then how was that insurrection put down?  Insurrections don't end by people just walking away.

If you can't even admit that there WAS an insurrection, discussing this WITH you is pointless. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.22  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.18    3 weeks ago

Nerm, just because you have not seen it does not make it so. Tax yourself to look and see:

A Reporter’s Footage from Inside the Capitol Siege | The New Yorker

Nerm, do not waste time comparing the wreckage of a street corner store with the sacking of the 200 year plus system of government dwelling. It simply won't hold up and you will be make suspect for the attempt. Degrees matter.

Moreover, I am not sure what point it serves to see the "put down" of the insurrectionists in our nation's center of democracy, since it is clear it occurred (no at that point no additional or excesses of blood was carried out.) As you stated, the Senate convened as a show and for the purposes of proper order amidst the discord, thefts of property, blood-letting, and piss and shit smeared indiscriminately.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.23  author  CB   replied to  Dulay @2.1.15    3 weeks ago

And what the "H" is the deal with the big ASS Trump flags? Who does that?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.24  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.16    3 weeks ago
If there was an insurrection then how was that insurrection put down?  Insurrections don't end by people just walking away.

U.S. Capitol Declared "Secure" After Law Enforcement Pushes Protesters Off Property

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.25  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.16    3 weeks ago
That's a political response to a political action.  The prosecutors are members of the House and are politicians with a vested interest in using impeachment for political advantage.  

Nerm, it should get tiresome demonizing democrats and republicans who oppose the chaotic activities of Donald Trump. Yes or no? (I want to know.)

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.26  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.18    3 weeks ago

Well gee, if you didn't see it, it must not have happened. /s

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.27  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.16    3 weeks ago
So, where are those insurrectionists now?  The crowd simply dispersing on its own doesn't seem to fit the political narrative of insurrection.  The crowd walking away of its own accord doesn't even fit the new normal for protests.

Nerm, I have presumed you write into these discussion from a vantage point of having some news savvy. Today, I am questioning that. Can you explain how you have an open and unfulfilled question in your mind as to how the men and women dispersed widely inside the Capitol building surrendered and exited the building - still, at this point?!! That is, assuming Trump supporters entered the building, can you guesstimate that they were escorted out (they were rather politely even so) before the senate reconvened that disastrous evening?

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.28  Dulay  replied to  CB @2.1.24    3 weeks ago

Here's one from earlier:

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.29  author  CB   replied to  Dulay @2.1.28    3 weeks ago

Yes! Thank you! I wanted this one and could not locate it. I raise you one:

New video of Capitol rioter Qanon Shaman : 'Trump is still our president'

Aside: "Shaman" is precious. Ain't he, precious?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.30  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @2.1.21    3 weeks ago
If you can't even admit that there WAS an insurrection, discussing this WITH you is pointless. 

Because there wasn't an insurrection.  Pointing out that the political left is exaggerating, embellishing, and outright lying about what occurred isn't the same thing as defending Trump or defending the rioters.

What happened was a protest that turned into a riot.  And the rioters should be held accountable.  That's no different than other riots that have happened over the last six years.

The political left appears to be upset because they don't hold the trademark on riots.

 
 
 
Ender
PhD Principal
2.1.31  Ender  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.30    3 weeks ago

When in the last six years has anyone stormed the capitol, roamed the hallways creepily calling reps names and trying to hunt them down...

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.32  Nerm_L  replied to  CB @2.1.22    3 weeks ago
Nerm, do not waste time comparing the wreckage of a street corner store with the sacking of the 200 year plus system of government dwelling. It simply won't hold up and you will be make suspect for the attempt. Degrees matter.

Do not attempt to transform politicians into an aristocracy.  Senators and Representatives are just citizens of the United States.  Nothing more but nothing less.  If we're supposed to be working toward equality then it's necessary to understand that elected politicians are not above anyone.  They're just people like anyone else; that's how equality is supposed to work isn't it?  

Some have said the United States flag is just a rag.  Well, the Capitol is just a building.  If burning the flag is political speech and burning a building is political speech then what transpired at the Capitol was nothing more than political speech.  

Moreover, I am not sure what point it serves to see the "put down" of the insurrectionists in our nation's center of democracy, since it is clear it occurred (no at that point no additional or excesses of blood was carried out.) As you stated, the Senate convened as a show and for the purposes of proper order amidst the discord, thefts of property, blood-letting, and piss and shit smeared indiscriminately.

Center of democracy?  I don't have vote on how Congress conducts itself.  Do you?

After six years of vandalism and violence the political left's patriotic angst seems as phony as a $3 bill.  

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.33  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.30    3 weeks ago
Because there wasn't an insurrection. 

There most assuredly WAS an insurrection Nerm. 

Pointing out that the political left is exaggerating, embellishing, and outright lying about what occurred isn't the same thing as defending Trump or defending the rioters.

Well since I didn't say a fucking thing about defending ANYONE, your comment is moot. 

What happened was a protest that turned into a riot.  And the rioters should be held accountable. 

Bullshit. It was a planned and targeted insurrection against one branch of the US government. 

That's no different than other riots that have happened over the last six years.

That false equivalency lacks all credibility. 

The political left appears to be upset because they don't hold the trademark on riots.

That statement lacks all credibility. 

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.34  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @2.1.33    3 weeks ago
That statement lacks all credibility. 

The political left's credulity doesn't have anything to do with credibility.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.35  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.32    3 weeks ago
Do not attempt to transform politicians into an aristocracy.  Senators and Representatives are just citizens of the United States.  Nothing more but nothing less.  If we're supposed to be working toward equality then it's necessary to understand that elected politicians are not above anyone.  They're just people like anyone else; that's how equality is supposed to work isn't it?  

I will not argue the point. I will leave it up to mutual commonsense.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.36  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.32    3 weeks ago
Some have said the United States flag is just a rag.  Well, the Capitol is just a building.  If burning the flag is political speech and burning a building is political speech then what transpired at the Capitol was nothing more than political speech. 

Have you tried injuring or killing, or injuring and killing a flag recently? It can not happen. Of course, the Capitol is a building, a 'dwelling place,' a congregational place, for the leadership from 50 states and territories and all who has interest in the governance of our nation and beyond. Comparison to our flag is limited at best.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.37  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.32    3 weeks ago
After six years of vandalism and violence the political left's patriotic angst seems as phony as a $3 bill.

It is this kind of petty rhetoric that is the bane of cooperative ideas and unity. I beseech you, let it go. We can be something better if we can just surmount this hurdle and marry liberalism and conservatism to each other again. Political parties in our country are nothing, zilch, without the strength of the other citizenry. We're zig-zaging through time and space, like a staggering drunken individual, because of the 'baffle' towering over us.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.38  Nerm_L  replied to  CB @2.1.37    3 weeks ago
It is this kind of petty rhetoric that is the bane of cooperative ideas and unity. I beseech you, let it go. We can be something better if we can just surmount this hurdle and marry liberalism and conservatism to each other again. Political parties in our country are nothing, zilch, without the strength of the other citizenry. We're zig-zaging through time and space, like a staggering drunken individual, because of the 'baffle' towering over us.

The Colin Kaepernick brand of disrespectful patriotism espoused by the political left won't be easily forgotten.  And the political left's politicians kneeled in the Capitol as a show of political disrespect for the United States; they weren't standing with the United States.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.39  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.38    3 weeks ago

WT "H" are you writing about Nerm? The point is moot now anyway. The 2nd Impeachment vote has resulted in acquittal. Now what remains is what must be done about the festering chronic wound on the body politics.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.1.40  Nerm_L  replied to  CB @2.1.39    3 weeks ago
WT "H" are you writing about Nerm? The point is moot now anyway. The 2nd Impeachment vote has resulted in acquittal. Now what remains is what must be done about the festering chronic wound on the body politics.

If the political left throws salt in the wound then divisions will escalate.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.41  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.40    3 weeks ago

Salt is a preservative, yes? When it rains it pours. . . .

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.1.42  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.1.34    3 weeks ago

That a juvenile practice Nerm. Try harder. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.43  author  CB   replied to  Dulay @2.1.42    3 weeks ago

Everything Nerm says will be received with a long-handle 'spoon' from me. This is simply too much "all-in for Donald" to be acceptable. I have reached the limits of my rather long tether. In passing I caught a glimpse of something today: The long since forgotten limits of my patience with impossible people.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
2.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Nerm_L @2    4 weeks ago

It seems to me that you would prefer that the arsonist be free to light the fires and fan the flames. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
PhD Principal
2.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2    3 weeks ago

Da!

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Junior Principal
2.2.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @2.2    3 weeks ago
It seems to me that you would prefer that the arsonist be free to light the fires and fan the flames. 

There wasn't any arson.  What happened at the US Capitol was more peaceful than what happened in Hong Kong.

So, why didn't the House impeachment managers show videos of how the 'insurrection' at the Capitol ended.  After all, the Senate reconvened the same day and finished its perfunctory business of validating the electoral votes.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
2.2.3  pat wilson  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.2    3 weeks ago
There wasn't any arson. 

Well I guess since the two pipe bombs didn't go off there was no arson, good grief !

So Hong Kong is the bar we set for our democracy ?

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
2.2.4  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.2    3 weeks ago
There wasn't any arson.

It's called a metaphor Nerm. Sheesh!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.5  author  CB   replied to  Nerm_L @2.2.2    3 weeks ago
What happened at the US Capitol was more peaceful than what happened in Hong Kong.

The capitol building can only be compared to other U.S. federal properties. Please equip your "speech" with some parameters.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Our nation is caught in a web of Republican Party advocacy that will not 'repair the breach' blown into our national ship of state. Nor will our government be allowed "self-correction" of the harm done it by its 45th president: Donald J. Trump.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Mature democracies should shun political personality cults, pope says

By Reuters Staff

150618084447-02-pope-francis-file-super-169.jpg

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Mature democracies must shun the temptation to glorify an individual political personality and make sure that the rule of law prevails over partisan interests, Pope Francis said on Monday.

Without naming any country or specific incident in his speech to diplomats, he spoke of events in the past year “in countries with a long democratic tradition” that had shown the need for “inclusive, peaceful, constructive and respectful dialogue”.

“The development of a democratic consciousness demands that emphasis on individual personalities be overcome and that respect for the rule of law prevail,” he said, without naming any individual politician.

“Indeed, law is the indispensable prerequisite for the exercise of all power and must be guaranteed by the responsible governing bodies, regardless of dominant political interests,” he said.

Recent years have seen the rise of populist politicians in the United States, Latin America and some European countries.

Democracy demands the pursuit of “inclusive, peaceful, constructive and respectful dialogue among all the components of civil society in every city and nation”, the pope said.

Francis made his comments in a long speech at his yearly meeting with diplomats accredited to the Vatican, which has relations with more than 180 countries.

Reporting by Philip Pullella; Editing by Alison Williams    

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5  author  CB     4 weeks ago

On Tuesday, Congress and its Senate is set for a governmental power reset! Long live the right to impeach an improper acting president!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6  author  CB     4 weeks ago

The Senate Trial ICO Former President Donald J. Trump is open. We sat in 'judgement' of one another.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Is the United States Republican Party too short-sighted and greedy for its own embellishment to see the danger one man, Donald J. Trump has and continues to cause our great country?

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
7.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7    4 weeks ago

Nope.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.1  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @7.1    4 weeks ago

Concise (on digits) I see. Remarkable!

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
7.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  CB @7.1.1    4 weeks ago
Remarkable!

I prefer "succinct".

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Listening to the Senate trial of former president Donald J. Trump I am reminded that proceedings that sat in judgement should not allow the GUILTY to go free. Yes, the question comes up: Why give a senate trial the characteristics of a trial without any insistence on proper outcomes? After all, does the citizenry of this country deserve a proper political 'trial' and conclusions in order to access rights and wrongs?

It is clear why people have utter disgust for some lawyers and some politicians!

Donald Trump conspired to stay in office beyond the expiration of his term in office; the insurrectionists were his arm of "lieutenants" rallied and sent to persuade and rabble-rouse the House of Representatives and the Senate to take improper and impulsive acts to keep him in power.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
8.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @8    4 weeks ago
Listening to the Senate trial of former president Donald J. Trump I am reminded that proceedings that sat in judgement should not allow the GUILTY to go free.

While some of us prefer a trial that the outcome of isn't predetermined because of what some folks "feel" about the accused.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
8.1.1  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @8.1    4 weeks ago

WHY? Because Donald Trump is too stupid to realize he is guilty of indirect murder and conspiring to indirectly lead an insurrection? Or, do you imagine Donald's lawyers 'parading' a pack of alternative points and factoids all to 'inspire' republican senators to ingest them and raise incredulity through regurgitation as maybe so, it possible!?

Texan, let's be clear. You are not "in" this for any trial of Donald Trump. The republicans need to grow up; if this nation puts forward the precedent that a president is out of reach of the government he or she serves, I'll democracy will be an international mockery: 

"Ah-Ha! 'America' ain't shit!"

"She broke her own damn self in 2021!"

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Trump's defense lawyers are arguing it is perfectly okay for Trump to have worked to gaslight his Q-Anon lieutenants and other attackers.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @9    4 weeks ago

The burden of proof is all on the House case managers.

The defense need not do or say a damn thing.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.1  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1    4 weeks ago

When the burden has been met by the prosecution, the burden then shifts to the defense.  If the defense chooses to say nothing, or provides an inadequate defense, and fails to meet its burden, case over.  Beyond that, jury nullification is the only avenue for the defense.

 
 
 
Dulay
PhD Principal
9.1.2  Dulay  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.1    4 weeks ago

Today's vote shows that jury nullification IS the avenue for the defense. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.1    4 weeks ago

I know you are a lawyer, so I will assume you know that the defense doesn't HAVE to do anything at all.

It is incumbent om the prosecution to present its case. The defense doesn't have to do squat, if it chooses.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.4  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.3    4 weeks ago

The defense doesn't have to do squat, and they can lose if the prosecution has met its burden.

The defense can argue that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden.  Sometimes the defense prevails, sometimes they don't.

In civil cases, if the burden has shifted to the defense, and the defense fails to meet its burden, the plaintiff can move for a directed verdict.  The defense can do likewise.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.4    4 weeks ago
The defense doesn't have to do squat, and they can lose if the prosecution has met its burden.

The defense can argue that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden.  Sometimes the defense prevails, sometimes they don't.

In civil cases, if the burden has shifted to the defense, and the defense fails to meet its burden, the plaintiff can move for a directed verdict.  The defense can do likewise.  

Gee, that makes this seem correct then:

The burden of proof is all on the House case managers. The defense need not do or say a damn thing.

Nice to see you agree!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.6  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.5    4 weeks ago

No.  The initial burden is on the House managers.  If they meet their burden, then, in theory, the burden shifts to the defense.  

Of course, this is not a legal trial, so discussions about burden of proof really have no bearing at all.  The Senators will be making political decisions.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.6    4 weeks ago
f they meet their burden, then, in theory, the burden shifts to the defense.  

Theories are real nice and all but what does the LAW say--that the defense must present a case?

Or can the accused simply do nothing at all--if he or she so chooses?

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.8  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.7    4 weeks ago

I should have stated it more definitively.  If the prosecution meets their burden of proof, then burden shifts to the defense.

The defense can always chose not to present a case, and they can lose.  In a civil case, the defense can chose not to show up in court and lose by default.  That's their choice.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.9  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.8    4 weeks ago
The defense can always chose not to present a case

EXACTLY what I said.

Thanks!

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.10  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.9    4 weeks ago
EXACTLY what I said.

But, what does that actually have to do with the Senate trial?   

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.11  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.10    4 weeks ago

You're the lawyer, you tell me.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.12  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.11    4 weeks ago

I already did.   See comment 9.1.6.

this is not a legal trial, so discussions about burden of proof really have no bearing at all.  The Senators will be making political decisions.
 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.12    4 weeks ago

You sure have seemed to spend a lot of time talking about the burden of proof for something that has no bearing at all.

 
 
 
Gsquared
Sophomore Principal
9.1.14  Gsquared  replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.13    4 weeks ago

Just following your example.  You're the one with the Ph.D.  [(Deleted)]

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.16  Texan1211  replied to  Gsquared @9.1.14    4 weeks ago
You're the one with the Ph.D.  (Piled Higher and Deeper)

Another personal insult.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9.1.17  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.13    4 weeks ago

In the words of a star-ship commander I once knew: "Shields up, proceed on impulse!" G' you will get a 'big lip' lot of minutia from some members. It's trifling.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.18  Texan1211  replied to  CB @9.1.17    4 weeks ago

Please try to be more clear.

Your analogy leaves much to be desired.

I have no clue what point you are trying to make.

If you had one to make.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
9.1.19  author  CB   replied to  Texan1211 @9.1.18    4 weeks ago

Oops. That one is for Gsquared.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
9.1.20  Texan1211  replied to  CB @9.1.19    4 weeks ago

Right.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
10  author  CB     4 weeks ago

The international community is watching republicans mess this country up! Doing it in horror too!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
11  author  CB     4 weeks ago

There is a reason why U.S. presidents serve their four year terms without "stress-testing" the American presidency.

We are the exceptional model of democracy that the world looks up to (or, we used to be so).  As such an entity for this world's people we have a stewardship to maintain a high(er) standard of rule of law, efficiency, and impeccability.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
12  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Moreover, for all intents and purposes Donald Trump is committed and "promised" to get away with it. All due to a Republican Party disarming itself and our nation before one solitary man who would be our King.

 
 
 
Texan1211
PhD Principal
12.1  Texan1211  replied to  CB @12    4 weeks ago

King??

What the what?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
13  author  CB     4 weeks ago

Day Two of the actual trial is underway. Boy, what some conservatives will be; and privilege allows them to get away with is incredible. The same people expect Black Americans to be more mature (that is, guilty as charged).

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
14  author  CB     3 weeks ago

SINCE IMPEACHMENT IS FIRST AND FOREMOST A POLITICAL ACTIVITY. . . . after the arguments on factual grounds what should come next are arguments on political grounds:

  1. It is highly probable that republican and conservative children, will not follow down the same political "rabbit-hole" of a cult of personality like Donald Trump. Trump conservatives will cause a new conservative generational counter-culture to appear among their children and families. (Consider Kellyanne E. Conway's family dynamics. That family nearly wrecked itself (could still).)
  2. Trump conservatives need to remember the hippie subculture movement of social consciousness which spelled a rejection of specific programming and mores not attuned to facts, social justice, and true spirituality.
  3. Trump conservatives face the risk of their young and adult children-as well as future historians-despising their predecessors political "achievements" which were solely acts of raw politics and soul-less.
 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
15  author  CB     3 weeks ago

SENATE VOTES TO ACQUIT TRUMP, 7 GOP SENATORS VOTE TO CONVICT.

Well, it's conservative's lost opportunity to be rid of their 'butt hurt'—y'all still have it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
16  author  CB     3 weeks ago

There is a reason why U.S. presidents serve their four year terms without "stress-testing" the American presidency.

We are the exceptional model of democracy that the world looks up to (or, we used to be so).  As such an entity for this world's people we have a stewardship to maintain a high(er) standard of rule of law, efficiency, and impeccability.

Our national struggle continues with each hammer stroke and nail gripping in its own right. . . .

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
17  author  CB     3 weeks ago

NT, for the love of boots and spurs, why won't the House and Senate re-define for the 21st century and the next 100 years are so a definition for the constitutional phrase: "High crimes and misdemeanors"?

The founders won't mind. . . .

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
18  author  CB     3 weeks ago

original

This is the moment a woman was fatally shot amid US Capitol chaos

Goodnight, Ms. Ashli Babbitt. Rest In Peace.

 
 
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