Democrats link Atlanta massacre to anti-Asian rhetoric during pandemic

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  drakkonis  •  4 weeks ago  •  117 comments

By:   Cleve Wootson, Marianna Sotomayor (MSN)

Democrats link Atlanta massacre to anti-Asian rhetoric during pandemic
Many advocates said it was hard to separate the spa killings from the recent increase in anti-Asian animus, including rhetoric from former president Donald Trump.

This is a good example of why I have such a problem with the Democratic Party and those who support them. As of the writing of this, I have found no mention by anyone investigating this tragedy that this was racially motivated. I'm sure the Dems are aware of this as well. They don't seem to care. They are going to present it as racially motivated anyway. No matter what.

Why? Because it makes a convenient political weapon and they know their base will accept it because they are just as eager to bash the other side as their leaders are. They don't need truth, they're happy to settle for plausible. They did the same with Kavanaugh, Trump and others. The party that wants to chuck due process out the window and just try people simply on appearance. You know, the party of "I believe her?" Simply making a claim from a member of a Democratic Party approved "victim" class is enough for them. 

This absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. There is a very good possibility that the Asian women killed were already victims before they were killed. Women brought here on false promises by other Asians and then forced to be sex slaves. Did any of these oh so concerned Dems have any questions about that? Hell, did they have any questions about anything? No. They just saw it as a perfect club to use against the other side and so, spun it as a racial hate crime and had at it. 

What's more, what about the white man and woman who died? What about the Latino man who was shot? Where the hell is the concern about them? Apparently, they aren't a tragedy. 


S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



As word spread Tuesday night that a White man had gunned down six women of Asian descent at three spas in the Atlanta area, Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) tweeted out the names of every Republican House member who had voted "nay" on her resolution to curb anti-Asian hate crimes. "There is blood on their hands" she wrote on Twitter.

"I put forth that resolution last year not for any partisan purpose of attacking anyone," she said in an interview Wednesday. "I wanted to show the Asian community that Congress, your leaders on both sides of the aisle, condemn this sort of bigotry. I never expected it to be partisan at all."

The rhetoric the legislation tried to squelch, she said, "certainly contributes to these sort of violent actions."

The massacre that left eight people dead immediately sparked a political fight Wednesday, with Meng and some other Democrats viewing the tragedy as an outgrowth of virulent anti-Asian rhetoric and hate crimes tied to the coronavirus, which was first detected in Wuhan, China.

Authorities investigating the spasm of violence in Georgia say early signs pointed to a disturbed suspect who claimed he was a sex addict and who saw the spas as "a source of temptation that needed to be eliminated." Authorities said it was too early to know whether the killings were also racially motivated.

But many advocates and Democratic lawmakers said it was hard to separate Tuesday's killings from the recent increase in anti-Asian animus, including rhetoric from President Donald Trump.

"Asian Americans, including people like me who are born and raised here, we have always been made to feel like we are foreigners and not true Americans," Meng said. "There's already a stigma about Asian Americans and if you add onto that a president with a worldwide platform who has blamed us for the coronavirus, I would say that laid a foundation for what happened Tuesday."

While many Democrats were quick to condemn the shooting and link it to Trump's rhetoric, Republicans remained mostly quiet. Top House and Senate GOP leaders did not release statements or tweet about the killings Wednesday, with House leaders choosing to keep the focus on the immigration battle and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) delivering criticism of President Biden's China policies.

The only two Republican Asian American members of Congress, Reps. Michelle Steel and Young Kim of California, expressed their ongoing concern over the rise of attacks against members of their own community.

"My heart breaks to hear of the tragic events in Atlanta. I'm praying for the victims & their loved ones," Kim wrote on Twitter. "While we wait to learn more, I stand with the AAPI community today & always as we witness more hate & attacks. This is not what we stand for."

Steel said the Atlanta case "only adds to a long list of recent, violent crimes against our Asian American and Pacific Islander community. . . . This has to stop. We have to do everything we can to put an end to hate and help our neighbors, especially as we work together to defeat the covid-19 pandemic."

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) tweeted Wednesday that Asian Americans "have nothing to do with a repressive Communist Party or with a virus that originated 7000 miles away."

"Anyone without enough common sense to understand that is an idiot," he wrote.

Since the virus spread, Asian Americans, including in the Atlanta area, have faced escalating harassment and verbal abuse. Words of derision have come from random people on social media or the street, but also from the nation's highest office. Trump repeatedly blamed China for unleashing the virus on the world — and tanking the United States' economy. During the tirades, Trump repeatedly used racially insensitive names like "China virus," "Wuhan virus" and "kung flu."

On Tuesday, during a Fox News appearance, Trump referred to "the China virus," as he often has during the pandemic.

"We were the envy of the world and then when we got hit by the — as I call it the China virus, covid — it obviously went down with every other economy," Trump said during an interview with Fox News host Maria Bartiromo.

In the Atlanta area, where the killings occurred, plaques that read "Wuhan plague" have appeared on buildings. An Asian American schoolteacher and her husband found a slur spray-painted on the side of their Nissan Altima after leaving a movie theater. An Asian American man on his way to a boba tea shop was told, "Thanks for covid."

Across the nation, authorities have investigated roughly 3,800 incidents of anti-Asian abuse, advocates say. For people who have spent the last year highlighting such acts, Tuesday's deaths represented a violent escalation.

Police arrested Robert Aaron Long, 21, after a brief manhunt and said he is the suspect in all eight deaths. Authorities said Long, who is White, took responsibility and they believe he acted alone. He has been charged with murder.

At a news conference, Cherokee County Sheriff's Capt. Jay Baker said Long told investigators the killings weren't racially motivated, and that he claimed to be a sex addict who had frequented some of the spas in the past. Baker stressed that the assertions were just the initial things Long told investigators and that "we still have a lot of things to process."

One of those things is what role, if any, anti-Asian sentiment may have played in the killings.

Lawmakers in Washington broadly condemned the killings, including many who said slurs and invectives directed at Asian Americans had laid the foundation for physical attacks.

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) tweeted that "Words matter. Xenophobia has deadly consequences. We must #StopAsianHate now."

"People who are loose in their language in this time of covid-19 have made some racial slurs in the process that have cost many people dearly," said Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.). "We need to be helpful to this population and to be knowledgeable about what they're facing and to make it clear this is absolutely unacceptable."

Rep. Judy Chu (D-Calif.), said whatever the motive for the crime, it's a sign that the nation's leaders have failed to protect some of society's most vulnerable citizens in a year where hateful rhetoric and action has increased.

Chu added during an interview that, though Trump is out of office, other Republicans have still hesitated to denounce his rhetoric, including many who voted against Meng's resolution about hate speech.

"You would have thought that would have been a no-brainer," Chu said. "Do you actually support anti-Asian hate crimes? That's really what [a nay vote] implies.

"I think that they were irresponsible and derelict in their duty, but very obviously they were doing that because they followed Donald Trump and his rhetoric," Chu said.

Both Chu and Meng will take part in a House Judiciary Committee hearing on anti-Asian hate speech scheduled for Thursday morning — around the same time that Long will be arraigned.

Advocates are also trying to make March 26 a day where victims and concerned citizens can speak out against anti-Asian American hate speech.

Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms (D) said the city is trying to speed resources to AAPI communities to address the uptick in hate speech and stem fears about potential violence.

"We're hearing the stories," she said. "We're seeing them on television. We're seeing them on social media, so we are certainly aware."


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Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1  seeder  Drakkonis    4 weeks ago

This should be fun /s

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1    4 weeks ago
This absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. There is a very good possibility that the Asian women killed were already victims before they were killed. Women brought here on false promises by other Asians and then forced to be sex slaves. Did any of these oh so concerned Dems have any questions about that? Hell, did they have any questions about anything? No. They just saw it as a perfect club to use against the other side and so, spun it as a racial hate crime and had at it. 

It's clear that YOU failed to ask any questions about the victims. If you had, you'd know that your BS about there being a 'very good possibility' that the Asian women were forced to be sex slaves is ridiculous. 

33-year-old Yaun, of Acworth was the YOUNGEST and she was a CLIENT. 

Paul Andre Michels, 54, of Atlanta; Xiaojie Tan, 49, of Kennesaw; and Daoyou Feng, 44, Soon C. Park, 74; Hyun J. Grant, 51; Suncha Kim, 69; and Yong A. Yue, 63. Elcias Hernandez-Ortiz, survived.

I don't know about you but I have never envisioned a 49 year old sex slaves that own their own business. 

Seriously, you're relying on disgusting racial stereotyping. 

What's more, what about the white man and woman who died? What about the Latino man who was shot? Where the hell is the concern about them? Apparently, they aren't a tragedy. 

Hyperbolic BS. There has been a ton of reporting on ALL of the victims. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.1  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1    3 weeks ago
It's clear that YOU failed to ask any questions about the victims.

That would be incorrect. I can't control when information comes out for any given event. At the time of my postings there was no information available concerning these things. Of course once the information does come out I suppose one could then use it in a post to sharp shoot someone else as if the information had been there all along. 

Seriously, you're relying on disgusting racial stereotyping.

Or I did my research and know that there is actually a good chance that they may have been sex slaves brought over from Asia. You should look into it.

Hyperbolic BS. There has been a ton of reporting on ALL of the victims.

Not four days ago. And, comparatively, the other victims are barely mentioned. The media is still falling all over themselves trying to make this about racism. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.2  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1    3 weeks ago
It's clear that YOU failed to ask any questions about the victims. If you had, you'd know that your BS about there being a 'very good possibility' that the Asian women were forced to be sex slaves is ridiculous.

Why do you say it is ridiculous? I don't think you have clue one about the Asian sex trafficking problem in this country which seems to be centered on massage parlors. 

I don't know about you but I have never envisioned a 49 year old sex slaves that own their own business. 

Before you go to town on me you should know what you're talking about first. Try googling sex slaves: massage parlors. Then get back to me. 

Seriously, you're relying on disgusting racial stereotyping. 

No, I'm simply aware of a very serious problem that actually exists. There's no stereotyping involved. Again, educate yourself and then get back to me. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.3  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.2    3 weeks ago

Well, this is weird. I posted the second one because the first one didn't appear. It wasn't collapsed or anything. I checked. Just wasn't there. Oh well. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.4  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.2    3 weeks ago
Why do you say it is ridiculous? I don't think you have clue one about the Asian sex trafficking problem in this country which seems to be centered on massage parlors. 

YOU commented on these specific victims and my post illustrates just how ridiculous your comment is.  

Before you go to town on me you should know what you're talking about first.

I think the data that I posted proves that I already know what I'm talking about. 

No, I'm simply aware of a very serious problem that actually exists. There's no stereotyping involved. Again, educate yourself and then get back to me. 

Yes, Your whole posit is based on stereotyping. You insist that the victims should be viewed through the lens of sex slaves and trafficking victims, without ANY evidence that ANY of them are victims of either. 

There has been reporting with interviews of their family and friends that lead me to believe that most if not all were legitimate business owners and/or employed massage therapists.

Unlike you, I chose to wait until I had some facts to base my comments. As someone who has 2 good friends who are licensed massage therapists, I see nothing nefarious. 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
1.1.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dulay @1.1    3 weeks ago

Wow. I got it all wrong myself. They said he was a sex addict, but it seems at least one woman gunned down was a client. Pretty sure these other women are licensed massage therapists.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.6  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.1    3 weeks ago
Or I did my research and know that there is actually a good chance that they may have been sex slaves brought over from Asia. You should look into it.

OH, so your 'research' lead you to concluding that 'there is a good chance'. 

Well that settles it. /s 

Not four days ago.

That's on YOU. YOU chose to come to unfounded and unsupported conclusions. 

And, comparatively, the other victims are barely mentioned. The media is still falling all over themselves trying to make this about racism.

Their gender and AGES are documented. 60 year olds aren't the kind of 'hot' draw that I envision when I read about sex slaves working at massage 'parlors'. Certainly not a draw for the 21 year old shooter...

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.7  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

Well, you can believe as you wish, Dulay. And you can ignore my advice about doing the research. I suppose it makes it easier to believe your own posts. 

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
1.1.8  bugsy  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.7    3 weeks ago
believe your own posts. 

Well...that would be one.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.9  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1.6    3 weeks ago
Their gender and AGES are documented. 60 year olds aren't the kind of 'hot' draw that I envision when I read about sex slaves working at massage 'parlors'. Certainly not a draw for the 21 year old shooter...

You know, it's kind of funny that you come at me this way and display your ignorance while doing so. It doesn't matter what you envision or don't envision. What matters are the facts. According to what I've read, women enslaved in these places can be anywhere from 20 to 50 or even 60. It seems most are middle aged, trying to pay off debts back home. 

Tell you what. I'll help you out. An article from the NYT. These are easy to find, since this is apparently a 3 billion dollar a year industry just on the illicit side and is projected to grow by something like 23%. 

Or you can not bother and remain ignorant. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.10  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.9    3 weeks ago
What matters are the facts. According to what I've read, women enslaved in these places can be anywhere from 20 to 50 or even 60. It seems most are middle aged, trying to pay off debts back home. 

Your link doesn't support that statement. Try harder. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
1.1.11  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.10    3 weeks ago

Are you trying to claim there is some kind of age limit on prostitution or sex slavery? If so, where is your data for that? And if not, why should anyone care how old these people were?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.11    3 weeks ago

My comment was about the seeders link. Try to keep up. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.13  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1.10    3 weeks ago
Your link doesn't support that statement. Try harder. 

It doesn't need to. I provided a link so that you can at least get some understanding of what is being talked about. I'm not going to do all your research for you. Especially when it isn't likely to make a difference to you anyway. You're just going to ignore it and keep on keeping on. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
1.1.14  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.12    3 weeks ago

So you won’t answer simple requests for you to clarify your statements? I guess I shouldn’t have expected any better.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.13    3 weeks ago
It doesn't need to.

Sure it does. You insisted that articles were 'easy to find'. So find one that supports your statement. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.16  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.14    3 weeks ago

Actually no. What I am refusing to do is play the 'this is what I read into your statement' game. I have no intention of answering to a fallacious interpretation. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
1.1.17  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @1.1.16    3 weeks ago
What I am refusing to do is play the 'this is what I read into your statement' game

Well that’s obviously false to anyone who can read. I didn’t read anything into your statement beyond the clear fact that you seem to think age is relevant to something. I just asked you to explain it. But if you don’t want to talk about your own statement, the rest of can only assume you came in to drop another irrelevancy with no point. Again.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.18  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @1.1.17    3 weeks ago
I just asked you to explain it.

Bullshit Tacos. You posted an utterly non-responsive reply to my 1.1.10 comment about the seeders link. Note that he has yet to post a relevant link to support his statement. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.19  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1.15    3 weeks ago
Sure it does. You insisted that articles were 'easy to find'. So find one that supports your statement.

The real story is much harder to ignore. The women trafficked in massage parlors are typically immigrants from China or South Korea, usually  mothers between the ages of 35-55  who are looking for a way to support their families.

And, as for the Spas involved in the shooting. All three spas are listed on Rubmaps, an erotic review site that allows users to search for and review illicit massage parlors. That fact alone is insufficient to say these women were necessarily sex slaves of one type or another but it certainly is a factor. 

Okay. So there's your post. Please continue to deny, however. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.20  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.19    3 weeks ago
That fact alone is insufficient to say these women were necessarily sex slaves of one type or another but it certainly is a factor. 

So you have insufficient evidence to make any of your proclamations...

Okay. So there's your post.

Your first link brings me back here and your second one doesn't say a fucking thing about sex slaves. 

Please continue to deny, however. 

I'm not denying anything. I am merely trying to get you to support YOUR claims, which you have yet to do. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
1.1.21  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Dulay @1.1.20    3 weeks ago

No, I've wasted enough time on you already. You can lead a horse to water....

Here's where the first link should have taken you. Human trafficking in Massage Parlors: A Deeply Manipulated Sense of "Choice" | Polaris (polarisproject.org)

That is from an organization named Polaris, which fights human trafficking. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.1.22  Dulay  replied to  Drakkonis @1.1.21    3 weeks ago
You can lead a horse to water....

But you STILL can't support your claim. 

jrSmiley_84_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Drakkonis @1    4 weeks ago

Did you hear how Biden politicized this?

What a disgrace he is.


Let me be the second to wish him good health.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.1  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2    4 weeks ago
Let me be the second to wish him good health.

Why would you use the same 'ominous' phraseology as Putin did against Biden Vic? 

Isn't that awfully close to death wishing of the POTUS? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.2.2  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @1.2.1    3 weeks ago
Why would you use the same 'ominous' phraseology as Putin did against Biden Vic? 

I guess that makes me part of the "Russian plot" right?


Isn't that awfully close to death wishing of the POTUS? 

Oh, suddenly you recognize actual meaning over the literal wording!  Who knew it was possible?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Masters Participates
1.2.3  Greg Jones  replied to  Dulay @1.2.1    3 weeks ago

[removed]

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
1.2.4  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Greg Jones @1.2.3    3 weeks ago
removed for context by charger

Harris will get her turn, no hurry.

lol 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.5  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.2.2    3 weeks ago
I guess that makes me part of the "Russian plot" right?

You tell me Vic, YOU are the one that characterized the phrase as 'ominous'. 

Oh, suddenly you recognize actual meaning over the literal wording! 

I take YOUR 'actual meaning' from YOUR 'literal wording'? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

It's easy to relate these incidents including what just happened in Atlanta to Asians/Asian Americans spurred on in large part by the former occupant of the White House's slurs.

You need to stop blaming Democrats/Progressives/Liberals for all that ails the world and look in the 'right' direction.

There were 3,800 anti-Asian racist incidents, mostly against women, in past year

“There is an intersectional dynamic going on that others may perceive both Asians and women and Asian women as easier targets,” one professor said.
March 16, 2021, 6:13 PM EDT
By   Kimmy Yam

New data has revealed over the past year, the number of anti-Asian hate incidents — which can include shunning, slurs and physical attacks — is greater than previously reported. And a disproportionate number of attacks have been directed at women.

The   research released by reporting forum Stop AAPI Hate   on Tuesday revealed nearly 3,800 incidents were reported over the course of roughly a year during the pandemic. It’s a significantly higher number than last year's count of about 2,800 hate incidents nationwide over the span of five months. Women made up a far higher share of the reports, at 68 percent, compared to men, who made up 29 percent of respondents. The nonprofit does not report incidents to police.

Asian Americans reported 3,800 hate-related incidents during the pandemic, report finds

Abuse tracked by Stop AAPI Hate found more than 68% was verbal harassment while 11% was physical

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Demonstrators take part in a rally to raise awareness of anti-Asian violence in Los Angeles on 13 March.   Photograph: Ringo Chiu/AFP/Getty Images
Vivian Ho   in San Francisco
Tue 16 Mar 2021 09.00 EDT

Asian Americans reported nearly 3,800 hate-related incidents during the pandemic, a number that experts believe to be just a fraction of the true total.

From 19 March 2020 to 28 February 2021, Asian Americans from all 50 states experienced everything ranging from verbal abuse to physical assaults, from getting coughed on to getting denied services because of their ethnicity, according to a report released on Tuesday by Stop AAPI Hate,   a not-for-profit coalition   tracking incidents of violence, discrimination and harassment.

More than 68% of the abuse was verbal harassment or name-calling, while 11.1% was physical, the report found.

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San Francisco Uber driver assaulted after passenger allegedly refuses to wear mask

The report also contains numerous first-person accounts. “I was at the mall with a friend. I was wearing a plumeria clip and was speaking Chamorro when a woman coughed and said, ‘You and your people are the reason why we have corona’,” read one testimonial from Dallas, Texas, in the report. “She then said, ‘Go sail a boat back to your island’.”

“During an Asian American protest, a white man driving a silver Mercedes drove past the first wave of Asian protesters, yelling out of his window at them, ‘Stupid f*cking Asians!’” read one testimonial from Elk Grove,  California . “Afterwards, he drove to where the remaining Asian protesters stood and was witnessed by multiple protesters aggressively driving onto the walkway where several protesters were gathered.”

The report comes amid growing awareness of anti-Asian violence in the US following several recent attacks. In Oakland, California, a 75-year-old man from Hong Kong died after being robbed and assaulted by a man police said had a history of   victimizing elderly Asian people . Earlier this year, an 84-year-old Thai man, Vicha Ratanapakdee, was killed in a seemingly   unprovoked attack   in San Francisco.

“The number of hate incidents reported to our center represent only a fraction of the number of hate incidents that actually occur, but it does show how vulnerable Asian Americans are to discrimination, and the types of discrimination they face,” the report authors wrote.

The authors noted that before the surge of awareness around anti-Asian attacks, Stop AAPI Hate had documented 2,808 incidents in 2020 but had since received a number of other reports.

In addition to physical and verbal assaults, the report documented incidents of vandalism, online harassment, workplace discrimination, being barred from transportation or establishments, and avoidance or shunning – all because the victims were Asian.

“A [ride-hailing service] driver said to me after I got into his car, ‘Damn, another Asian riding with me today, I hope you don’t have any Covid’,” read one testimonial from the Las Vegas in the report. “After I told him, ‘Have a good day’, he replied back, ‘You shouldn’t be requesting anymore rides from anybody’.”

Women reported hate incidents 2.3 times more than men. California and New York, the two states with the  largest Asian American populations , had the most reported hate incidents, with 1,691 reported in California and 517 in New York.

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
2.1  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago
There were 3,800 anti-Asian racist incidents, mostly against women, in past year

And many of them by blacks.

How do you spin that one to "white people hate?"

Here is another one you can spin if you want.

The eight dead people in Atlanta included two whites. We know that in the liberal circle, killing whites do not equate hate. Would you still consider this a hate crime, even though 2 white people were killed?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  bugsy @2.1    4 weeks ago

All I hear when you comment bugs is racist dog whistles, that's all you got.  

 
 
 
bugsy
PhD Guide
2.1.2  bugsy  replied to  Tessylo @2.1.1    4 weeks ago
All I hear when you comment bugs is racist dog whistles, that's all you got.  

Look...if you have nothing but the race card to throw, then just say it.

You've thrown it so many times it is now expected.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Senior Quiet
2.2  Ronin2  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago

You didn't read the article. It figures.

Authorities investigating the spasm of violence in Georgia say early signs pointed to a disturbed suspect who claimed he was a sex addict and who saw the spas as "a source of temptation that needed to be eliminated." Authorities said it was too early to know whether the killings were also racially motivated.

As usual Democrats are living up to their new motto, "never let a good crisis go to waste." Pure hypocrisy that Democrats are stoking hatred and violence by their very words and actions. Further stoking racial tensions and resentment is sure to bring us all closer together./S

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.1  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2    4 weeks ago

You left out 'leftist brown shirts'

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.2  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2    4 weeks ago
"You didn't read the article. It figures."

Why would I read the latest hate article against Democrats/Progressives/Liberals?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Senior Quiet
2.2.3  Ronin2  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.1    4 weeks ago

The article wasn't about the left's domestic terrorists. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.3    4 weeks ago

We don't have any domestic terrorists on our side.  That's all on you all!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2.3    4 weeks ago

This scumbag blames these women for his problems and then he kills them for it and you call the left domestic terrorists.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
2.2.6  dennis smith  replied to  Ronin2 @2.2    4 weeks ago

The dems cannot help themselves.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
2.2.7  dennis smith  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.2    4 weeks ago

Why do you comment on an article if you refuse to read it?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
PhD Guide
2.2.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Tessylo @2.2.5    4 weeks ago

This ahole is blaming his sex addiction.  He will have all he can handle behind bars.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
2.3  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago
It's easy to relate these incidents including what just happened in Atlanta to Asians/Asian Americans spurred on in large part by the former occupant of the White House's slurs.

Yes, I know. I already pointed out that all people such as yourself require is plausibility, not actual fact. The actual "why" of why this guy murdered these people doesn't actually matter to you. All that is necessary is that it is plausible that this guy might, I repeat, might have had racially charged motivations and that's good enough for you. Might translates to "did" and off you go, never looking back, no matter what the investigation reveals. All you see is, wow, what a PR bonanza if this was racially motivated and so, it was, because you want it to be. 

What I wonder is why doing so doesn't bother you? I mean, you're just using these women's deaths, and only the Asian one's, as tools. You don't actually care about who they were, why they died, what their life was like in those places or anything else. You just pick up their bloody shirt and wave it around for your cause, not theirs. What about the white man and woman he killed and the Latino man he shot? How do you fit them into your racially motivated theory? Do you care about them? Do their deaths matter? 

What are you going to say if, after the investigation, it's determined that the guy really was just trying to eliminate sexual temptation from his life and that was the only reason he killed them? That their being Asian had nothing to do with his motive at all? I would imagine you're still going to blame it on Trump. Still going to blame it on the right. You seem incapable of seeing things any other way. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Tessylo  replied to  Drakkonis @2.3    4 weeks ago

Is that all you have, insults?  People such as myself?

This 'article' is yet another deflection from the 'right' regarding all of the hatred they have been stoking led on by the former occupant of the White House, the big fat pig that waddled out of there on 1/20/21.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
2.3.2  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Drakkonis @2.3    4 weeks ago

It is truly amazing that they pull this card when the dumbass that did the shooting already said he was eliminating the temptation . Don't think he had Asian on his mind when he shot. This is a twist to fit a narrative.

Mr. Long, who is in custody, took responsibility for the shootings and said he acted alone, according to the Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office.

“It’s a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate,” Capt. Jay Baker said. “He said it was not racially motivated.”

Six of the victims were women of Asian descent, officials said. At least four were of Korean descent, South Korea’s foreign ministry said Wednesday.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
2.3.3  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tessylo @2.3.1    4 weeks ago
Is that all you have, insults?  People such as myself?

Why do you consider that an insult? Perhaps you would prefer "people who think as you do?" 

This 'article' is yet another deflection from the 'right' regarding all of the hatred they have been stoking led on by the former occupant of the White House, the big fat pig that waddled out of there on 1/20/21.

No. It's an article about how people are making claims that can't be backed up with actual fact. All those examples you gave in your first comment do not equate to facts in the case of this crime. They only equate to facts concerning their own case. What you are doing is attempting to sell the idea that because X had motive A for doing what he did it means R must have had the same motive. Not how it works. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.3.4  Tessylo  replied to  Drakkonis @2.3.3    4 weeks ago

No.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @2    4 weeks ago
The   research released by reporting forum Stop AAPI Hate

Oh well, that says it all!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

Also, this 'article' isn't about me - it's about the fucking pervert who killed 6 Asian women.  If the the fucking scumbag pervert wanted to eliminate temptation, he should have just killed himself and done the world a favor.  

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
3.1  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tessylo @3    4 weeks ago
Also, this 'article' isn't about me - it's about the fucking pervert who killed 6 Asian women.

No, it is not about you but neither is it about the "pervert." It is about people who create and run with an unjustified narrative for political advantage and those who support it. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Drakkonis @3.1    4 weeks ago

No

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
3.1.2  dennis smith  replied to  Drakkonis @3.1    4 weeks ago

Absolutely right Drakkonis. 

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
4  seeder  Drakkonis    4 weeks ago

From the article.

As word spread Tuesday night that a White man had gunned down six women of Asian descent at three spas in the Atlanta area, Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) tweeted out the names of every Republican House member who had voted "nay" on her resolution to curb anti-Asian hate crimes. "There is blood on their hands" she wrote on Twitter.

I'd say that, in a way, this is sort of accurate. As word spread, all many cared about or even heard was "six women of Asian descent." In fact, the article doesn't even give one single line to the two white people who died or the Latino man who was shot. Sort of like reading about a family of four and their dog we killed in a car wreck and no one cares about the dog. Guess who is apparently the dog in this article. 

But many advocates and Democratic lawmakers said it was hard to separate Tuesday's killings from the recent increase in anti-Asian animus, including rhetoric from President Donald Trump.

I have to wonder why it is hard if one doesn't know, factually, that this was racially motivated. Unless one is simply ruled by emotion. "Well, it was a white guy so it had to be racism, right?" I mean, that's the message being pushed so hard by Dems, progressive groups and progressive education. White people can only interact with not-whites as racists, unless you reach some mythical uber-woke status that is poorly defined. 

Whatever happened to caring about things like truth and fact? 

 
 
 
Hallux
Freshman Expert
5  Hallux    4 weeks ago

Until all of the evidence comes out, y'all wiping your arses with a partisan vigilante's rope. Cut it out!

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

161812512_10222054937789720_4307838217065533799_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E6p2X5qSXh8AX-Gpf4i&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=3cd5c16ebd64dcbdb4d24a65bdc56d62&oe=6079BDDB

 
 
 
Ronin2
Senior Quiet
6.1  Ronin2  replied to  Tessylo @6    4 weeks ago

Notice that leftist bullshit artists are only using the victims for their own ends? There is no proof that this is racially motivated.

But by all means keep ratcheting up the division and hate; it is all the left has these days.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
6.1.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Ronin2 @6.1    4 weeks ago
There is no proof that this is racially motivated.

Seriously?  Are you claiming that he picked the 3 spas randomly, and it is pure coincidence that all 3 were Asian?

If he wasn't picking them randomly, then the reason he picked 3 Asian spas would be because he was looking to target 3 Asian spas.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.2  Tessylo  replied to  Ronin2 @6.1    4 weeks ago

Of course it's racially motivated.  

Your projection is duly noted.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
6.1.3  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @6.1.1    4 weeks ago
Are you claiming that he picked the 3 spas randomly, and it is pure coincidence that all 3 were Asian?

Honestly, it’s what I would expect. In a lot of cities, the kind of massage places that also specialize in sexual activities, tend to be staffed by Asians. You might not like it, but that’s reality. It’s also a pretty well known reality. It’s almost humorous the way people have decided to ignore that today.

But anyway, yeah, if you’re looking to attack sex workers in massage parlors, there is an excellent chance you will be attacking Asians.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
PhD Quiet
6.1.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.3    4 weeks ago
Honestly, it’s what I would expect.

c8ed772a-4f5f-4d56-a508-436c7036f03c

In a lot of cities, the kind of massage places that also specialize in sexual activities, tend to be staffed by Asians.

That is a reach. 

AND if you do not have a study to back up that claim, it comes close to qualifying as racist.  I am not Asian myself, so I cannot make that call.

You might not like it, but that’s reality.

With no study to back you up, you MAY be crossing the line.

It’s also a pretty well known reality.

It is a pretty well known stereotype, not a reality.

It’s almost humorous the way people have decided to ignore that today.

You haven't proven that there is anything to ignore.

But anyway, yeah, if you’re looking to attack sex workers in massage parlors, there is an excellent chance you will be attacking Asians.

I am not going to flag your comment as racist, but I will be totally and utterly not surprised if many others do.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.1.5  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @6.1.4    4 weeks ago
That is a reach.  AND if you do not have a study to back up that claim, it comes close to qualifying as racist.  I am not Asian myself, so I cannot make that call.

By your own logic, if you don't have the research to back up what you're saying, how do you have any idea whether he's being racist or not, close or otherwise? 

I am not Asian myself, so I cannot make that call.

What in the name of all that is good does what race you are have to do with it? Does your race prevent you from doing some research? How can you argue against Tacos! if you don't actually have any facts to counter him with? All you are doing is placing a political-correctness police badge on yourself and judging Tacos! for not being politically correct. 

Do better.

It is a pretty well known stereotype, not a reality.

Um, using your own medicine... do you have a study to back up that claim?

You haven't proven that there is anything to ignore.

Here's an idea. Why don't you do some research yourself??? As it happens, there's over 9,000 illegal massage parlors in over 1,000 cities, creating a three billion a year industry. many, if not most of them, are fronts for asian sex trafficking. Not hard to find this out with just a little effort, which I'm not going to do for you. So, stop being the politically-correct police and counter Tacos! with your own damn facts if you want to argue with him. 

I am not going to flag your comment as racist,

Probably a good idea since nothing he said was racist. Still, magnanimous of you. 

but I will be totally and utterly not surprised if many others do.

Me, either. There's lots of other people in here who also simply judge what someone else says without providing any facts of their own but, rather, just don't like how it sounds. In other words, they just argue by appearances and emotion. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
6.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Ozzwald @6.1.4    4 weeks ago

Your outrage at my comments is either fake virtue signaling or just ignorant. 

I am not Asian myself, so I cannot make that call.

Even if you were Asian, that would not qualify you to judge me, the relative racism of my comment, or to speak for all Asians.

I am not going to flag your comment as racist, but I will be totally and utterly not surprised if many others do.

Save that kind of sanctimony for someone else. It’s pretty lame to accuse me over and over of racism with the passive-aggressive approach of your comments. Either flag it or drop it. Instead of attacking me personally, try responding to the content.

With no study to back you up, you MAY be crossing the line.

Really? Where is your study? Why aren’t you crossing a line?

It is a pretty well known stereotype

If it’s such a well known stereotype, then don’t act like you don’t know what I’m talking about. There is a reason why it is such a well known stereotype, or hadn’t you thought of that?

not a reality

It is a reality. Read and learn something:

Sex Workers Are Trucked Across America To Work At Massage Parlors That Are Fronts For Prostitution

Massage parlors often recruit women from Thailand and the Philippines , offering them jobs that don't involve prostitution, according to the report. Once these indebted women arrive in the U.S., the parlors coerce them into doing sex work.

...

The massage parlors are highly organized and typically run by business-savvy people from China or Korea , according to the report.

Human Trafficking in Illicit Massage Businesses

In 2017, Polaris analyzed more than 32,000 cases of human trafficking and developed a classification system that identifies 25 distinct types of human trafficking
in the United States. Each one has its own business model, trafficker profiles, recruitment strategies, victim profiles, and methods of control that facilitate human trafficking. They all fall roughly into categories of sex trafficking, labor trafficking or a hybrid of the two — that is, venues that involve both sex and labor trafficking.
Trafficking related to illicit massage parlors accounted for 2,949 cases — second in prevalence only to trafficking in escort services. Most of the victims are women in their mid-thirties to late fifties from China and South Korea. Additionally, most are mothers struggling to support their children. 

...

The vast majority of women reported to have been trafficked in IMBs are from China, with a relatively high number coming from the Fujian province. The next highest group are women from South Korea. There is a notable minority of IMBs that have victims from Thailand or Vietnam. The average age of victims in IMBs is 35-55, although we have also seen cases of
trafficking victims in their late 20s and women all the way up to their late 60s. Most women recruited have no more than a high school education and know very little or no English when they arrive in the United States

Hopefully, now you see that my comments reflect reality. Perhaps you would like to retract your accusations and apologize for your rush to judgment. We will see.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.1.7  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Ozzwald @6.1.1    4 weeks ago
Seriously?  Are you claiming that he picked the 3 spas randomly, and it is pure coincidence that all 3 were Asian?

Strawman much? Let's try a little logic, okay? News reports covering what the investigators put out about what's know so far indicates these were places he had "frequented." Now, let's look at least three possibilities as to what this means concerning your question.

  1. The shooter doesn't control who massage parlors are staffed by.
  2. These parlors were the only parlors in the area so it isn't as if he had his pick of parlors and therefore was not random.
  3. These parlors were not the only parlors in the area but were the only ones that provided the "services" he was looking for. Thus, if "eliminating temptations" were his motivation he would be forced by his motives to choose the three he did.
  4. These parlors were not the only parlors in the area and were not the only ones that provided the "services" he was looking for.

The problem with possibility 4. however, is why would he head to Florida to allegedly find more parlors in which to commit murders if there were more already locally available to him? Of course, it may be that other parlors were not staffed by Asian women and, if racially motivated, were not appealing to him as targets. However, there is no information on this upon which to factor the likelihood of this possibility.

Further, although the investigation has hardly begun, the man admitted to the murders. If it were racially motivated, why would he not say so? Would he refrain from doing so because he thought he might get in more trouble than he is already in? Why would one prefer to claim sex addiction rather than racism to explain murdering eight people, three of whom were not Asian? 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.1.8  dennis smith  replied to  Drakkonis @6.1.5    4 weeks ago

There are some who immediately play the race card when anything happens.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.1.9  dennis smith  replied to  Tacos! @6.1.6    4 weeks ago

Reality is very hard for those who immediately stereotype everything and play the race card right away.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.1.10  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  dennis smith @6.1.8    4 weeks ago
There are some who immediately play the race card when anything happens.

I don't think it's that simple any more. I think many actually believe that any non-uber-woke white person who interacts with non-whites can only interact in a racist manner. That it is intrinsic to our nature and cannot be avoided. It's part of the Critical Race Theory lie but many believe it, it seems. 

In that sense, it isn't a card being played any more. It's a foundational belief some hold. They literally can't see it any other way.

I believe that if there were ten guys in a room and nine of them were white and the last was black and some white guy killed them all, these people would say the killer killed the black guy because he was a racist and the other nine deaths wouldn't even register. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
6.1.11  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Drakkonis @6.1.10    4 weeks ago
these people would say the killer killed the black guy because he was a racist and the other nine deaths wouldn't even register. 

I agree some people would want to see it that way and would say so as well.

I know that I do not know what this man's underlying motivation or reasoning was.

However it does make me think this as you have pointed out so well that this is a special circumstance case relative to the fact of "the ladies" being both the only "The ladies" available in  the area and also of the Asian race. 

So which was it ?   Hookers or Asians ?

Maybe a combination. 

Perhaps it was a deep seated hatred of himself really for using both turned outward, in effect killing what he was and had done wrong in his own mind.

Being with a woman of another race and being with a hooker. 

I just looked to see and yep I see this online now:

.............................................

"We are still early in this investigation, so we cannot make that determination at this moment," Atlanta Police Chief Rodney Bryant said.

Baker said Wednesday that the gunman was likely to have acted alone.

"These locations, he sees them as an outlet for him, something he shouldn't be doing," Baker said, adding that Long indicated that he had an "issue with porn" and was "attempting to take out that temptation."

"He was fed up, at the end of his rope," Baker said. "He had a bad day, and this is what he did."

Recommended

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2021_11/3457979/210318-orem-utah-police-resc_ue-accident-victim-ac-1128p_169e4ee6923b891587baa92603929af4.focal-80x80.jpg 1x" > https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2021_11/3457979/210318-orem-utah-police-resc_ue-accident-victim-ac-1128p_169e4ee6923b891587baa92603929af4.focal-60x60.jpg 1x" > 210318-orem-utah-police-resc_ue-accident-victim-ac-1128p_169e4ee6923b891587baa92603929af4.focal-60x60.jpg

Cherokee County Sheriff Frank Reynolds said Long "may have frequented some of these places in the past" and "might have been lashing out."

w.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-deadly-atlanta-area-spa-shootings-says-he-was-motivated-n1261299

.............................................

It wouldn't surprise me if he was/is somewhat religious as well.

None of that stuff mixes well in the brain. Some cant handle what they've done. I call it insanity. 

Murder or suicide is the worst endings to it.  

RIP to all involved jrSmiley_12_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.1.12  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu @6.1.11    4 weeks ago
So which was it ?   Hookers or Asians ?

In my opinion? They were victims way before the shooter ever got to them. They were almost certainly sex slaves brought over from Korea and, probably, China with false promises and kept there by threats to themselves or their families they are trying to support back home. If all these people who are outraged by this "violence against Asians" issue really cared about Asians they'd be a lot better off and help a hell of a lot more people if they first focused on all the slaves in the sex "industry". What is being done to them is way worse than what they are currently up in arms about. 

Perhaps it was a deep seated hatred of himself really for using both turned outward, in effect killing what he was and had done wrong in his own mind.

My opinion is that, if what has been reported turns out to be the actual motivation, what you say here is probably in the ballpark. I'm very religious myself so I think in terms of struggling with sin. I know first hand through my own experience how intense the internal conflict can be so I can imagine at least some of what he was going through. Where he loses me is how he got to the place where he chose to kill others in an attempt to escape his own torment. I would think most people at the point he was apparently at would have killed themselves rather than someone else. It makes me wonder what the basis of his faith actually was. 

 
 
 
321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu
Sophomore Principal
6.1.13  321steve - realistically thinkin or Duu   replied to  Drakkonis @6.1.12    4 weeks ago
I know first hand through my own experience how intense the internal conflict can be so I can imagine at least some of what he was going through. Where he loses me is how he got to the place where he chose to kill others in an attempt to escape his own torment.

Yea its a wonder. All I can think is everyone's different and some people can't seem to blame themselves for anything, including on what they have done. 

Also you are so right about the sick ass sex slave industry.  Way past time to crack down more on that. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
6.1.14  dennis smith  replied to  Drakkonis @6.1.10    4 weeks ago

Some on NT admit they don't even read articles and say things are racially motivated. 

It seems they do that just to have disagreements instead of thinking of the possibility that it isn't a racial issue.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
6.2  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tessylo @6    4 weeks ago

What relevance does this have to the discussion, Tessylo? How does this support your belief it was racially motivated? Are you just throwing darts at a wall containing random crap and just posting whatever comes up? 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
7.1  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @7    4 weeks ago

Sure, let’s get up hung on - and spend all our focus on - the “bad day” comment. Because that’s the most important part of this story. jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

People who deal with awful crap every day as part of their jobs, often discuss events like this in ways that are foreign to the general - and ignorant - public. That’s doesn’t mean they’re trying to downplay or dismiss it. 

On the other hand, obsessing over the descriptive language of someone who is not remotely responsible for the violence shows what some people really care about: proper virtue signaling.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @7.1    4 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
8  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

161724325_10159848366236800_298153238438621523_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=RGIq4ORYEdYAX-oWLy-&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=1a9d1b060351deb418108b6b734887be&oe=607A1D4A

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9  Tessylo    4 weeks ago

160857150_286792399476674_2650218580412490852_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FsnrTvqgAm0AX8OcTR6&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=bc0fb776c2e2454f4b41ae0b919704d8&oe=607779C7

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
9.1  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @9    4 weeks ago

Her comment is stupid. No one is trying to explain it “away.” They’re just explaining it. Unfortunately, for a person who makes her living on bogus outrage, the real world explanation for this act doesn’t dovetail with her political priorities.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
9.1.1  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @9.1    4 weeks ago

There's no bogus outrage here.  

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
9.2  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tessylo @9    4 weeks ago

Sarsour's comment is truly idiotic. She puts herself forward, apparently, as the standard for human behavior. Because she hasn't once thought of murdering people when she's had a bad day (something we have to take on faith) then apparently no one else does, either. The world is full of people who do things because they are having a bad day. They slip over some line in their mind and do things. Sometimes people are hurt or killed. That doesn't excuse it. It's just a recognition of a fact of life. 

And claiming that law enforcement labors to "explain away heinous acts by white men" is what is actually heinous. Not only is it racist as hell and unfair to police, people want to know why people commit the crimes they do. Apparently, Sarsour has the same view as others in this discussion. That the explanation (motivation, in other words) should be what she thinks it is rather than why an individual actually did it.

All she ends up doing is making this about her. That's what is actually heinous. 

 
 
 
dennis smith
Senior Silent
9.3  dennis smith  replied to  Tessylo @9    4 weeks ago

A very sad racist comment for sure.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
10  Tacos!    4 weeks ago

Liberal writers with an agenda have been twisting themselves in knots trying to make this a racism story or a political story. The problem is that so far, there is no evidence pointing to that other than the dead bodies of some of the victims.

Here is a sampling of headlines from the LA Times. Sorry, it’s behind a paywall, so you may not be able to read the actual stories:

Violence has Asian Americans questioning how far they have really come in their American journey

Atlanta spa shootings evoke renewed calls for Congress to act against anti-Asian hate

Atlanta spa shootings stir fear amid historic rise in hate crimes against Asian Americans

Column: If the mass killing of six Asian women isn’t a hate crime, what is?

In addition to these stories pushing this invented narrative, the Times was prompted to run multiple stories about past anti-Asian attacks, just so you get the message that anti-Asian white supremacy is an urgent and chronic crisis that infests American society.

People don’t like to hear this, but not every attack on a person who checks some intersectional box is a product of racism, sexism, whateveraphobia, or politics.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
10.1  Tacos!  replied to  Tacos! @10    4 weeks ago

It seems a lot of people are eager to dismiss the fact that not everyone shot by this maniac was Asian or even female. The Asian females were exactly 75% of the dead. But if you really really really want to make this an Asian thing, you have to forget about those other victims or invent some reason why they’re murders are insignificant. From what I see over the last couple of days, most liberal media is treating them like collateral damage. Nice.

Frankly, if I was related to either of those victims, I’d be pretty pissed at the apparent disregard people have for those murders just so they can peddle some political agenda.

By the way, four of the women were Korean. Not just “Asian” and definitely not Chinese. We hear a lot of talk about how the “china virus” talk is driving the violence. It strikes me as kind of racist to assume that something done to a Korean person is automatically because of that.

 
 
 
Drakkonis
Senior Guide
10.1.1  seeder  Drakkonis  replied to  Tacos! @10.1    4 weeks ago
Frankly, if I was related to either of those victims, I’d be pretty pissed at the apparent disregard people have for those murders just so they can peddle some political agenda.

Yeah,  I feel the same.

As frustrating as it is that what you're saying is just plain common sense, I more or less find a little hope in that there is essentially just one person among the "usual suspects" who is actually here arguing against what is plainly obvious to anyone who thinks. I'm hoping the rest aren't here arguing with us because they actually get it or, at least, don't feel they can come up with a credible argument against the obvious. I'm hoping they just get it.

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
10.1.3  Split Personality  replied to  Tacos! @10.1    4 weeks ago

I wonder if the average American Non Asian person

could correctly identify the heritage of a a group of females from Central Asia to the Pacific Rim.

Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesia ?

I know  I would not have a clue.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Split Personality @10.1.3    4 weeks ago
"I wonder if the average American Non Asian person

could correctly identify the heritage of a a group of females from Central Asia to the Pacific Rim.

Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesia ?

I know  I would not have a clue."

So true SP.  I was just thinking the same thing recently.  These scumbags are attacking people they think are of Asian descent, but you're right, I wouldn't have a clue about who was from what country, and neither do whoever is attacking these people, not that that matters of course. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.1.5  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @10.1    4 weeks ago

One or two weren't Asian.

Your usual twisting, spinning, and projection.

So tiresome.  

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
10.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @10.1.5    4 weeks ago
Your usual twisting, spinning, and projection.

Based on what, exactly? I have no reason whatsoever to care why this guy committed murder.

The only thing being twisted is reality, and this by people who for some reason have no problem believing this guy when he confesses to the crime of mass murder, but they don’t believe him when he tells the cops why he did it. It’s not as if he has something to gain by lying about his motive and it’s not logical that he would be truthful about the one thing, but not the other.

2/3 of his shooting victims were Asian (a Hispanic male was shot and is in the hospital). They just don’t all have “being Asian” in common. What they do have in common is that they were all found in brothels that masquerade as massage therapy studios. If this guy had wanted specifically to kill Asians, he could have gone to a single known ethnically Asian community, spun himself in a circle and shot everyone around him. Instead, he specifically traveled to three massage parlors to do his killing. It just so happens that those places are often staffed by Asian women.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
10.1.7  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @10.1.6    4 weeks ago

Please provide evidence that they were all brothels. I'll wait...

BTFW, you might want to review the ages of the women that were murdered. The only one under 40 was a CLIENT, most were over 50. Oh and the owner that was murdered is a LICENSED massage therapist. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
10.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @10.1.7    4 weeks ago
Please provide evidence that they were all brothels.

I don’t need to. That’s what the killer thought. That’s all that matters.

you might want to review the ages of the women that were murdered

No need. It’s not relevant. You think you need to be 20 to be a sex worker? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
10.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @10.1.8    4 weeks ago
What they do have in common is that they were all found in brothels that masquerade as massage therapy studios.

THAT was YOUR opinion, not the killers.   [removed]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
10.2  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @10    4 weeks ago

Why do you keep posting that shit behind paywalls?  The headlines don't mean dick.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
10.2.1  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @10.2    4 weeks ago

The Los Angeles Times is a good liberal newspaper. It’s one of the news sources I read. If you want to read the stories, buy a subscription. I would think that might appeal to you. But you don’t need to be able to read the stories to see where they come from. Also, you should be able to read a few of them for free, I think. If you ask real nice, I’ll copy some of the text of them and send it to you. Would you like that?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
11  Buzz of the Orient    4 weeks ago

I may have been the first and most prolific NT member on the topic of increased hatred of Asian Americans, and the causes of it, not only because of where I live and my feelings about Chinese people, not only because I am married to a Chinese woman, but because of the religious prejudice experienced by me during my childhood.  However it may be a shock to BOTH sides of this issue that I agree in this case with Drakkonis, because I DON'T think that race has anything significant to do with this mass murder.  In fact, when the first articles about the event were published on NT, I posted this comment:

As more is learned about the perpetrator, I'm not so sure that this was a hate crime or even an anti-Asian intention.  Certain questions are coming to mind, such as if his intent was to kill Asians, then why go to distantly spread out locations of a specific business, why not just go to the local Chinatown and fire in any direction?  Asians were not the only ones killed - two of the victims were not.  And as Steve said above: "...his father was a youth minister or pastor. He was big into religion."  So by listing God as one of his great interests, maybe he felt he was doing God's business, ending the lives of sinners, sins to which he succumbed and was harbouring an uncontrollable guilt - perhaps by doing so he was cleansing himself.  No specific motive has been indicated as yet, so it's open to conjecture.

I'll bet that most such spas and massage parlours are staffed by Asians, and as I've indicated in my quoted comment, I think that it was the business, not those who staff it, that was foremost in the mind of the perpetrator.  As well, in my opinion, the waving of this event as a prime example of the anti-Asian hatred that is increasing in the USA TRIVIALIZES the fact of the increase in the actual incidents. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
11.1  Tacos!  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11    4 weeks ago
I'll bet that most such spas and massage parlours are staffed by Asians

Correct. I have linked elsewhere (@6.1.6) to studies that confirm this, and of course it is well understand by common people in our society. Frankly, if people want to be outraged about something impacting people of Asian descent, they should consider the vast human trafficking networks that keep these massage parlors in business.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
11.2  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @11    4 weeks ago

I'm amused by the fact that although I stated in my comment that I agreed with Drakkonis, and presented an opinion that backs up his seed, he did not "thumb up" my comment although he has "thumbed up" comments by other members.  Perhaps the conservative refusal to reduce the partisan gap and come together, to encourage unity, is because it's what Biden asks for, not Trump.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12  Dulay    4 weeks ago

Please provide evidence that they were all brothels. I'll wait...

BTFW, you might want to review the ages of the women that were murdered. The only one under 40 was a CLIENT, most were over 60. Oh and the owner that was murdered is a LICENSED massage therapist. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @12    3 weeks ago
BTFW, you might want to review the ages of the women that were murdered. The only one under 40 was a CLIENT, most were over 60.

Are you trying to claim there is some kind of age limit on prostitution or sex slavery? If so, where is your data for that? And if not, why should anyone care how old these people were?

Oh and the owner that was murdered is a LICENSED massage therapist.

Why is that important?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12.1.1  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @12.1    3 weeks ago
Are you trying to claim there is some kind of age limit on prostitution or sex slavery? If so, where is your data for that? And if not, why should anyone care how old these people were?

AGAIN Tacos, your reply is NON-responsive to my comment. The first sentence of my comment was:

Please provide evidence that they were all brothels. I'll wait...

A WEEK latter and NO evidence has been posted that the murdered women ran or worked in a 'brothel' OR that they were prostitutes OR sex slaves. So despite your innuendo, you've got NOTHING. 

Why is that important?

Well gee Tacos, MY posit is that prostitutes and/or sex slaves need not go through 500 hours of training to become a licensed massage therapist. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1.2  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @12.1.1    3 weeks ago
AGAIN Tacos, your reply is NON-responsive to my comment.

That is obviously not accurate to even a casual observer. Why be dishonest? I ignored one question in your comment, but I clearly responded to the rest of it. I can’t fathom why you think anyone should prove that a massage parlor operated as a brothel, nor do I know how people would accomplish that when no one here is a member of law enforcement investigating the case. You didn’t even explain why it should matter.

MY posit is that prostitutes and/or sex slaves need not go through 500 hours of training to become a licensed massage therapist. 

Perhaps they need not, but they might anyway. Being licensed certainly doesn’t preclude them also working as prostitutes. I don’t see what any of that has to do with the murders. Can you explain it?

Finally, I asked you specifically to explain your concern with age and you ignored it. Should I now get high and mighty and proclaim that your reply is NON-responsive? Sheesh!

So despite your innuendo, you've got NOTHING.

Another inaccurate response. I have made no innuendo. I haven’t even made an argument in the comment you are replying to. The comment you replied to only asked questions. I asked four of them, all attempting to get you to clarify your remarks. You gave a partial answer to one of them. Talk about NON-responsive!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12.1.3  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.2    3 weeks ago
That is obviously not accurate to even a casual observer.

No, it's not obvious. 

Why be dishonest?

Why pretend that I am? 

I ignored one question in your comment, but I clearly responded to the rest of it. I can’t fathom why you think anyone should prove that a massage parlor operated as a brothel, nor do I know how people would accomplish that when no one here is a member of law enforcement investigating the case. You didn’t even explain why it should matter.

YOU seem to have forgotten that 6 days ago YOU are the one that made the distinction between brothels and massage parlors Tacos? I asked you to PROVE it and now you're admitting that only a LEO investigating the case could accomplish that.

If sure seems like you have come to understand that you should have WAITED until FACTS were uncovered BEFORE you spewed unfounded innuendo. 

Or not...

Can you explain it?

To you? NO.

Finally, I asked you specifically to explain

Your habit of characterizing questions, fabricated from fallacious interpretations, as 'asking for an explanation' has run it's course Tacos. I've told you, I'm not playing that game with you. 

Another inaccurate response. I have made no innuendo.

Oh but you DID:

What they do have in common is that they were all found in brothels that masquerade as massage therapy studios.

THAT is an innuendo Tacos. One which you ADMIT there is NO evidence to support. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12.1.4  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.2    3 weeks ago

I thought you were THE supreme expert on every topic in the world!  That's the impression you give.

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1.5  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @12.1.3    3 weeks ago
YOU seem to have forgotten that 6 days ago YOU are the one that made the distinction between brothels and massage parlors Tacos? I asked you to PROVE it and now you're admitting that only a LEO investigating the case could accomplish that. If sure seems like you have come to understand that you should have WAITED until FACTS were uncovered BEFORE you spewed unfounded innuendo. 

Are you intentionally misrepresenting the situation? Or do you not understand it? I have already explained to you - and it is clear from the police press conferences - that the killer saw these places as houses of prostitution. It was never my intent to confirm his suspicions. How could I? I have said so repeatedly now, and it just bounces off of you. Basic facts ignored. 

Your habit of characterizing questions, fabricated from fallacious interpretations, as 'asking for an explanation' has run it's course Tacos. I've told you, I'm not playing that game with you.

Well, that’s convenient. You write absolute irrelevant nonsense and then when asked to stand by it, you attack whoever challenges you. It’s becoming a pattern. By contrast, I have been totally willing to discuss my comments. 

I’ll invite you yet again to answer the questions I posed to you. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1.6  Tacos!  replied to  Tessylo @12.1.4    3 weeks ago
I thought you were THE supreme expert on every topic in the world!  That's the impression you give.

Oh, I wouldn’t go that far, but I do probably know more about most of the topics here than you do, and that’s good enough.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12.1.7  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.5    3 weeks ago
It was never my intent to confirm his suspicions.

Then why did you post the following? 

What they do have in common is that they were all found in brothels that masquerade as massage therapy studios.

THAT was you, NOT the shooter Tacos.

How could I?

Glad that you finally recognize that. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1.8  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @12.1.7    3 weeks ago
Then why did you post the following? 

That’s no longer relevant to the discussion since I have now twice clarified my remarks for you. You have no excuse for misrepresenting my position anymore.

Now for the third time. Will you answer the questions I posed to you in response to your comments?

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12.1.9  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.8    3 weeks ago
That’s no longer relevant to the discussion since I have now twice clarified my remarks for you.

You HAVE? Where? All I see is tapdancing and a continued refusal to recognize that you can't support YOUR statement. 

You have no excuse for misrepresenting my position anymore.

I NEVER misrepresented your position in the first place. I QUOTED you. 

Now for the third time. Will you answer the questions I posed to you in response to your comments?

I have already 'explained' my position more than once. AGAIN, the premise of your questions is fallacious and a game I refuse to participate in. 

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
12.1.10  Tacos!  replied to  Dulay @12.1.9    3 weeks ago
All I see is

Based on your posts, you see what you want to see and aren’t interested in what other people have to say about their own thoughts. It’s the typical gotcha game we have come to expect.

the premise of your questions is fallacious and a game I refuse to participate in

Alright then. The premise of your questions is fallacious and a game I refuse to participate in. However it has been useful exposing the disingenuous bullying nature of your comments, the way you reject clarification and insist on your own interpretation. Which is, as anyone can see, not an interpretation at all.

From your steadfast refusal to explain yourself, it is reasonable to conclude that your comments about the ages of people were rooted in bias and apparently were an attempt to argue with people (anyone really) based on an ignorant or closed minded perception of a type that you perceive. 

An interesting contrast here is that I was forthcoming in trying to clarify my remarks, probably because I am actually interested in discussion. You threw a verbal bomb into the discussion and refuse to discuss it at all, blaming others when they ask for clarification. I guess I don’t blame you for not wanting to face your own remarks. No one likes to be caught stereotyping.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
12.1.11  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.10    3 weeks ago

jrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_28_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

Nailed it...........kudos

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @12.1.11    3 weeks ago

No, he didn't.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.6    3 weeks ago

No.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Junior Expert
12.1.14  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @12.1.12    3 weeks ago

If you can read the posts of certain people, you cannot deny the accuracy. You may be next..............Please take care

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
12.1.15  Dulay  replied to  Tacos! @12.1.10    3 weeks ago
Based on your posts, you see what you want to see and aren’t interested in what other people have to say about their own thoughts.

Based on the fact that you chose to truncate my comment I see that you aren't interested in acknowledging your own mistakes. 

It’s the typical gotcha game we have come to expect.

So you view asking you to support your own statements as a gotcha game. I'll keep that in mind. 

Oh and BTFW, who the hell are this 'we' you pretend to speak for? 

Alright then. The premise of your questions is fallacious and a game I refuse to participate in.

Your imitation of Pee Wee Herman? 

However it has been useful exposing the disingenuous bullying nature of your comments, the way you reject clarification and insist on your own interpretation. Which is, as anyone can see, not an interpretation at all.

There you go again with the victim card.

Poor bullied Tacos. 

Tissue? 

From your steadfast refusal to explain yourself, it is reasonable to conclude that your comments about the ages of people were rooted in bias and apparently were an attempt to argue with people (anyone really) based on an ignorant or closed minded perception of a type that you perceive. 

Based on the statement you made, that's an utterly ironic statement. 

An interesting contrast here is that I was forthcoming in trying to clarify my remarks, probably because I am actually interested in discussion.

You tried and failed to walk back your characterization without acknowledging that it was unfounded. In fact, you just dug yourself in deeper and made it worse. Rather than showing an interest in discussion, it merely illustrates an unwillingness to take responsibility for your statement. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
PhD Guide
13  Paula Bartholomew    4 weeks ago

What I don't get is why someone with a sex addiction chose to kill those who would bop his bologna.  Isn't that kind of like a starving  man killing the wait staff at a restaurant who now won't get fed?

 
 
 
Tacos!
PhD Expert
13.1  Tacos!  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13    4 weeks ago
What I don't get is why someone with a sex addiction chose to kill those who would bop his bologna.

Apparently, in his mind, he was attacking the temptation so it can't tempt him. I suppose there is a certain logic to it, but obviously, the specific action here is taking it to an insane level.

 
 
 
charger 383
PhD Quiet
13.2  charger 383  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13    4 weeks ago

That is confusing 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
13.3  Tessylo  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @13    3 weeks ago

Bop his bologna!  LOL!  

 
 
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