Beginning in the 1930's the federal government "redlined" communities based on race, preventing home ownership by people of color in desirable neighborhoods and suburbs. There were also racial "covenants" associate with housing sales and which caused people of color to be unable to create generational wealth in the way of home ownership. He also demonstrates housing discrimination continuing today.
I know a half hour is a long video to ask people to watch, but it is worth the time if people have it.
There is a scene where the white mayor of Lyndhurst, New Jersey is shown that housing discrimination took place in his city post world war 2. When he is asked what he thinks should be done about it he says "Nothing. Move on. We're all God's people".
Housing discrimination cost black people untold billions of dollars of generational wealth.
It wasn't only blacks that suffered, NA's, and in So Cal Mexicans as well.
My father was a WWII vet with Silver Star and Purple Hearts and could not buy a home when he returned from WWII nor in the 1950s. It was until the late 1950s that he was able to finally purchase a home in a neighborhood with a few whites. In the mid to late 1960s in Downey CA. it took me a lot of time to finally find someone that would sell me and my family a home using the GI Bill and it was south of Imperial Hwy which was where the few minorities that were in Downey lived.
On my account, I don't want any reparations. What I want is that the US government live up to its commitments and treaties with NA's and pay us what is legally due. And live by what they have signed and committed to.
I always get a laugh out of the ''lighter skin Mexicans'' and their nonsense. Hell, over 60% of all Mexicans are Mestizos (Indigenous and European) another 25% are pure indigenous. I used to give them all a hard time as soon as that lighter skin BS started. Back in the day I was known around the hood as ''El Indio'' (The Indian).
If 25% of all Mexicans are still purely of indigenous DNA then that actually seems high to me. I do not remember the exact numbers but the percentage of 100% pure indigenous Native Americans in the US is minuscule. For some tribes there are only a handful left who are 100%. Many people I personally know, who are on tribal rolls, are in fact culturally white...
The demographics of Mexico show (depending on which study) that Indigenous make up between 15.5 and 25%.
I do not remember the exact numbers but the percentage of 100% pure indigenous Native Americans in the US is minuscule.
That is not correct. 44% of NA's are pureblood. 86% of all Navajo are pureblood. There are many tribes where the majority is pure blood. It's true that we have a very high rate of intermarriage with other races but to say pure blood are minuscule is simply not accurate.
Many people I personally know, who are on tribal rolls, are in fact culturally white...
I do not want to be disrespectful. There is not compete agreement on what constitutes 100%. To me being Native is about family and identity and not about blood or DNA. I am from Oklahoma and one sixteenth Cherokee though my family never identified as Native. We are descended from a second wife who was Native so that branch of the family had issues.
Being from Oklahoma I have many Native friends and acquaintances. They would call bullshit on me if I started identifying as Native.
I do not want to be disrespectful. There is not compete agreement on what constitutes 100%.
If you want to delve into that a full-blood can be considered one that is 100% of one tribe. I do not consider 100% from the same tribe as the criteria of being a full-blood.
Blood and DNA are important and so is culture/language. The Current Chief of the Cherokee nation is only 1/8 Cherokee. I doubt if any Cherokee call bullshit on him.
I am from Southern Arizona and my maternal grandmother was half Chiricauha Apache on her father's side and Mexican on her mother's side. She was raised on a small ranch in Cananea, Mexico about 60 miles or so from the AZ border. She later married a full blooded blond haired blue eyed Spaniard. So I guess that makes me about 10 to 15% NA. My aunts and uncle never had any interest in their NA heritage. Neither did my older brother or sister. I was the only one who showed any interest and my grandmother instructed me in native ways from a young age, especially how to survive in the desert from a very young. For whatever reasons my grandmother never maintained any contact with the Chiricauha Apache nation and never tried to get any tribal paperwork because she grew up in Mexico, there was no real provision for that at the time. My ancestral heritage is highly convoluted when my father's background is thrown in. But that's for another time. I I know what my ancestry is on my mother's side, but I have nothing on paper to prove it other than oral family history. My apologies for being long winded. These are things I seldom talk about outside the family.
The federal government was part of a systematic prevention (completely intentional or not) of black Americans obtaining generational wealth by the same means whites have. What should we do, nothing?
It would cost two trillion dollars to give every black person in America 50,000 dollars. I suppose the reluctant federal officials could go about negotiating down from there.
In John Olivers video he does not claim to know how to proceed with reparations. He suggests it be a project for Congress.
We have the most complicated tax code on earth, created by Congress. I think a body that can write thousands of pages of tax law could come up with a workable plan for reparations.
By the way, reparations should also go to Native Americans who have lost financial gains through the actions of the federal government.
It would cost two trillion dollars to give every black person in America 50,000 dollars.
I disagree with that idea. I believe you give each of them $50,000 and it will be gone within a year and do nothing to fix the underlying issue. You want to fix generational wealth you have to fix the problem of generational poverty. How do you fix poverty, by fixing the school system so that children actually learn something useful, and you fix the workforce so that people can get jobs. Fixing a generational issue will take a few generations to fix. If you just write a check to every black person in America, all you have done is a band-aid solution so you can feel better but you have not fixed the problem.
Your solution assumes that everyone would succeed through the method you propose (education and hard work) when even not all white people "succeed". There are in fact tens of millions of whites who are "lower class". Some people have neither the drive nor the innate skills or maybe even the intelligence to "succeed". People with few prospects as an individual inherit generational wealth from their parents all the time.
By the way, being afforded the same education as everyone else should not be part of reparations , it should be part of being an American citizen.
No, I don't assume that everyone would succeed or have the same outcome. It would still require effort on their part but at least they would all be in a better starting point. And yes, everybody should have the same opportunity in education but as you said not everybody has the same skills, intelligence or drive to go to higher education and benefit. But I believe fixing the problems of primary and high school would go a long way to help with the issue.
People with few prospects as an individual inherit generational wealth from their parents all the time.
So? We're talking about solutions the federal government could do to help fix the problem, With your statement it appears as if you instead want to lower everybody to the same level to remove the inequity.
Lets say, all blacks are given 50,000 dollars as reparations. I would then like to see a widespread effort through private enterprise ,and some governmental agency help, to educate these people on what to do with their windfall.
Yes, some, many, would not use it all that wisely. That is why the quality and the persistence of the advice would be critical.
Yes, some, many, would not use it all that wisely. That is why the quality and the persistence of the advice would be critical.
I think this would have a greater chance to just set them up to fail. Learning to handle money takes time. As the median net worth for blacks is only $36k, there are a lot of them who are living paycheck to paycheck. If they come into a pile of money will they be willing to take the time to learn or will they be more interested in getting those things that they feel they need? We've all heard of people who came into a large sum of money (winning the lottery as an example) and within a few years they are again broke. It takes time to change habits when it comes to money, nobody does it immediately and when you are already starting in the hole how much time are you willing to give before you start to spend that money?
And lets be honest on how well private enterprise and government actions can educate people. If you need a reminder of how stubborn and/or stupid people can be, just look at the current Covid vaccination rates.
So no, I'm just against handing out a sum of money to every black person as I do not believe they would be any better off in the long run.
How do you fix poverty, by fixing the school system so that children actually learn something useful,
Bring back Vo-Tech schools. Not all kids want to go to college or have the motivation. They want to learn a vocation so they can get a job or an apprenticeship right after they graduate high school
I have never been a fan of John Oliver and never will be. I don't care for him or his views. So in that respect, in my case you are correct, but to each their own.
Beginning in the 1930's the federal government "redlined" communities based on race, preventing home ownership by people of color in desirable neighborhoods and suburbs. There were also racial "covenants" associate with housing sales and which caused people of color to be unable to create generational wealth in the way of home ownership. He also demonstrates housing discrimination continuing today.
In the end he advocates reparations.
Very good program.
I know a half hour is a long video to ask people to watch, but it is worth the time if people have it.
There is a scene where the white mayor of Lyndhurst, New Jersey is shown that housing discrimination took place in his city post world war 2. When he is asked what he thinks should be done about it he says "Nothing. Move on. We're all God's people".
Housing discrimination cost black people untold billions of dollars of generational wealth.
It wasn't only blacks that suffered, NA's, and in So Cal Mexicans as well.
My father was a WWII vet with Silver Star and Purple Hearts and could not buy a home when he returned from WWII nor in the 1950s. It was until the late 1950s that he was able to finally purchase a home in a neighborhood with a few whites. In the mid to late 1960s in Downey CA. it took me a lot of time to finally find someone that would sell me and my family a home using the GI Bill and it was south of Imperial Hwy which was where the few minorities that were in Downey lived.
I think that reparations should be paid to all people of color who lost wealth opportunities through housing discrimination.
On my account, I don't want any reparations. What I want is that the US government live up to its commitments and treaties with NA's and pay us what is legally due. And live by what they have signed and committed to.
My wife's earliest memories were of living in a duplex owned by her grandmother on her father's Mexican/Spanish side of the family and
this grandmother "tortured" my wife's mother over her NA heritage from her mothers Colorado side of the family.
They hated the lack of privacy and the bigotry of light skinned Mexicans towards the dark skins and NA.
My MIL began making lace doilies and her son sold them at various exit ramp red lights throughout LA.
My FIL was a city engineer, a WWII two vet with 9 fingers. He wasn't surprised that Esther demanded to move,
he was surprised that she had saved $4,500.00 selling doilies.
Financing vets should have been easy, but not for Hispanics, they paid cash.
They bought a house on the edge of a white neighborhood against Esther's wishes.
What could go wrong? Esther, Jesse and their son spoke accented English and fluid American Spanish.
The new neighbor was a Boy Scout Leader but that didn't stop him from trashing their property with eggs, toilet paper and dog shit.
Then he called the police and Health and Building Inspectors repeatedly pointing out the vandalism that he himself had created.
My BIL was a weightlifting stud who had been a gang member but was now a minister.
He tried to intervene & ended up in cuffs for disturbing the piece.
The "experiment" lasted a few weeks. Esther packed up and left with the kids, Jess in tow. The uncle was the realtor and sold it again
to whites.
They quickly found a "mixed neighborhood", a corner property with many fruit trees and a garage and a big yard.
The girls were forbidden to speak Spanish from that point on. They have no accents.
I always get a laugh out of the ''lighter skin Mexicans'' and their nonsense. Hell, over 60% of all Mexicans are Mestizos (Indigenous and European) another 25% are pure indigenous. I used to give them all a hard time as soon as that lighter skin BS started. Back in the day I was known around the hood as ''El Indio'' (The Indian).
If 25% of all Mexicans are still purely of indigenous DNA then that actually seems high to me. I do not remember the exact numbers but the percentage of 100% pure indigenous Native Americans in the US is minuscule. For some tribes there are only a handful left who are 100%. Many people I personally know, who are on tribal rolls, are in fact culturally white...
The demographics of Mexico show (depending on which study) that Indigenous make up between 15.5 and 25%.
That is not correct. 44% of NA's are pureblood. 86% of all Navajo are pureblood. There are many tribes where the majority is pure blood. It's true that we have a very high rate of intermarriage with other races but to say pure blood are minuscule is simply not accurate.
And your definition of ''culturally white''?
If your grandmother cannot make frybread?
I do not want to be disrespectful. There is not compete agreement on what constitutes 100%. To me being Native is about family and identity and not about blood or DNA. I am from Oklahoma and one sixteenth Cherokee though my family never identified as Native. We are descended from a second wife who was Native so that branch of the family had issues.
Being from Oklahoma I have many Native friends and acquaintances. They would call bullshit on me if I started identifying as Native.
LOL, that would be true, but I don't know of one nookomis that cannot make frybread.
Sorry for the long update. It is complicated.
If you want to delve into that a full-blood can be considered one that is 100% of one tribe. I do not consider 100% from the same tribe as the criteria of being a full-blood.
Blood and DNA are important and so is culture/language. The Current Chief of the Cherokee nation is only 1/8 Cherokee. I doubt if any Cherokee call bullshit on him.
Every dark haired Irishman I grew up with claimed to be part Indian.
Parents and grandparents tell kids the damn-est stuff.
The wife got into a fight in grade school because Grandpop told them they were related to Montezuma and Poncho Villa.
That's quite the pair, not probable but entertaining none the less.
I am from Southern Arizona and my maternal grandmother was half Chiricauha Apache on her father's side and Mexican on her mother's side. She was raised on a small ranch in Cananea, Mexico about 60 miles or so from the AZ border. She later married a full blooded blond haired blue eyed Spaniard. So I guess that makes me about 10 to 15% NA. My aunts and uncle never had any interest in their NA heritage. Neither did my older brother or sister. I was the only one who showed any interest and my grandmother instructed me in native ways from a young age, especially how to survive in the desert from a very young. For whatever reasons my grandmother never maintained any contact with the Chiricauha Apache nation and never tried to get any tribal paperwork because she grew up in Mexico, there was no real provision for that at the time. My ancestral heritage is highly convoluted when my father's background is thrown in. But that's for another time. I I know what my ancestry is on my mother's side, but I have nothing on paper to prove it other than oral family history. My apologies for being long winded. These are things I seldom talk about outside the family.
"There is not compete agreement on what constitutes 100%."
There's a classic liberal answer.
And what is your answer?
I guess nobody wants to talk about the John Oliver video.
I'm a life long victim of white male privilege, sorry, never had a problem getting the best terms possible.
I understand what happened, I understand that it was wrong.
I also didn't do it when I was a mortgage officer for a lender for a few years
and don't know how said "reparations" would be calculated
or where the $$ would come from.
The federal government was part of a systematic prevention (completely intentional or not) of black Americans obtaining generational wealth by the same means whites have. What should we do, nothing?
It would cost two trillion dollars to give every black person in America 50,000 dollars. I suppose the reluctant federal officials could go about negotiating down from there.
The whole notion of reparations is simplistic and absurd.
Should there be net worth limitations to qualify?
In John Olivers video he does not claim to know how to proceed with reparations. He suggests it be a project for Congress.
We have the most complicated tax code on earth, created by Congress. I think a body that can write thousands of pages of tax law could come up with a workable plan for reparations.
By the way, reparations should also go to Native Americans who have lost financial gains through the actions of the federal government.
I disagree with that idea. I believe you give each of them $50,000 and it will be gone within a year and do nothing to fix the underlying issue. You want to fix generational wealth you have to fix the problem of generational poverty. How do you fix poverty, by fixing the school system so that children actually learn something useful, and you fix the workforce so that people can get jobs. Fixing a generational issue will take a few generations to fix. If you just write a check to every black person in America, all you have done is a band-aid solution so you can feel better but you have not fixed the problem.
Nailed it but I do disagree on one point. I'll wager it won't take 75-80% of the recipients 6 months and probably less to go through it
Your solution assumes that everyone would succeed through the method you propose (education and hard work) when even not all white people "succeed". There are in fact tens of millions of whites who are "lower class". Some people have neither the drive nor the innate skills or maybe even the intelligence to "succeed". People with few prospects as an individual inherit generational wealth from their parents all the time.
By the way, being afforded the same education as everyone else should not be part of reparations , it should be part of being an American citizen.
No, I don't assume that everyone would succeed or have the same outcome. It would still require effort on their part but at least they would all be in a better starting point. And yes, everybody should have the same opportunity in education but as you said not everybody has the same skills, intelligence or drive to go to higher education and benefit. But I believe fixing the problems of primary and high school would go a long way to help with the issue.
So? We're talking about solutions the federal government could do to help fix the problem, With your statement it appears as if you instead want to lower everybody to the same level to remove the inequity.
Lets say, all blacks are given 50,000 dollars as reparations. I would then like to see a widespread effort through private enterprise ,and some governmental agency help, to educate these people on what to do with their windfall.
Yes, some, many, would not use it all that wisely. That is why the quality and the persistence of the advice would be critical.
I think this would have a greater chance to just set them up to fail. Learning to handle money takes time. As the median net worth for blacks is only $36k, there are a lot of them who are living paycheck to paycheck. If they come into a pile of money will they be willing to take the time to learn or will they be more interested in getting those things that they feel they need? We've all heard of people who came into a large sum of money (winning the lottery as an example) and within a few years they are again broke. It takes time to change habits when it comes to money, nobody does it immediately and when you are already starting in the hole how much time are you willing to give before you start to spend that money?
And lets be honest on how well private enterprise and government actions can educate people. If you need a reminder of how stubborn and/or stupid people can be, just look at the current Covid vaccination rates.
So no, I'm just against handing out a sum of money to every black person as I do not believe they would be any better off in the long run.
IF Congress could arrive at a "reasonable" number,
It should be a monthly stipend like they just did for the Child Tax Credits.
That gives people a monthly budget which many of those recipients clamored for.
The annual lump sum "always " disappeared at the first emergency per the recipients.
Better for Treasury as well.
There should also be a formula to keep the Ben Carsons and Kevin Harts out of the program by income or some sort of
housing yardstick.
There could be term limits, annual or biannual registration based on tax returns?
.
The problem I see is going to be legal challenges to "whites" being discriminated against or not being
included in the program
and that slim group of people claiming to be minorities but passing for white.
Say in some incredible miracle the number was 50,000.
that would be $416 a month for ten years or 208 for 20 years.
Or make it based on current income to encourage people to work .
Thank you
Bring back Vo-Tech schools. Not all kids want to go to college or have the motivation. They want to learn a vocation so they can get a job or an apprenticeship right after they graduate high school
thanks, Jim!
I have never been a fan of John Oliver and never will be. I don't care for him or his views. So in that respect, in my case you are correct, but to each their own.
Even if only 25% is true (I know it is far more than that) systemic racism is a total joke!