Opinion: Don't want the COVID-19 vaccine? Then pay the full cost if you land in the hospital - MarketWatch

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  sandy-2021492  •  4 months ago  •  112 comments

By:   Jonathan Meer (MarketWatch)

Opinion: Don't want the COVID-19 vaccine? Then pay the full cost if you land in the hospital - MarketWatch
Much of the argument about lockdowns and mask mandates boils down to disagreements about the level of risk that's appropriate to impose on others and how...

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Much of the argument about lockdowns and mask mandates boils down to disagreements about the level of risk that's appropriate to impose on others and how much should be left to individuals to decide.

But now that vaccines are easy to obtain (and have always been free to the recipients), the calculations have shifted. Those who choose to remain unvaccinated no longer pose a serious threat to the vaccinated - but they're still imposing a cost. Hospitalizations for COVID are almost entirely confined to those who are not vaccinated, often at the cost of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Who should bear those costs? Under our system of risk-sharing, it's all of us, whether through government programs like Medicare and Medicaid or through private insurers. When someone who refuses to get the vaccine gets seriously ill, their bills currently are paid by taxpayers or others in their insurance group.

But why should the vaccinated bear those financial costs? Insurers, led by government programs, should declare that medically-able, eligible people who choose not to be vaccinated are responsible for the full financial cost of COVID-related hospitalizations, effective in six weeks.

That gives time for the unvaccinated to make a choice, based on their personal preferences and a truer sense of responsibility. Those who continue to believe that COVID is no more than a cold, or that the pandemic is a sophisticated fraud, or that sheep parasite medicine is more effective than vaccines with shockingly good efficacy, can put their money where their mouths (and keyboards) are.

One of the fundamental lessons of economics is that people respond to incentives - just witness the success of vaccine lotteries at encouraging vaccinations. But a policy of letting the unvaccinated foot the bill for their COVID-related hospitalizations is only partly about wielding a financial stick to push reluctant people into vaccination. It's also about not expecting others to pay for your decisions. Standing up for your beliefs means being willing to bear the consequences. Otherwise, it's just cheap talk.

The most common objection to this policy is a slippery slope argument: what if the insurers stop covering the health outcomes of other lifestyle-driven diseases, like cirrhosis or Type 2 diabetes? Or not covering health costs for those who are unbelted in auto accidents?

Health insurers already do charge more to people who smoke and are permitted in many states to exclude coverage when injuries arise from illegal acts or under the influence of drugs - including alcohol. And a full debate about whether people should be charged more when engaging in certain activities is not unreasonable if the costs of these kinds of choices are going to be spread to everyone.

But more importantly, there is a direct and clear connection between vaccination and the likelihood of serious complications from COVID, unlike the decades-long development, mediated by genetics, between many health behaviors and serious illness. A more apt comparison would be if a safe single-shot cure for Type 2 diabetes was developed. The rest of us would be justified in refusing to cover the costs of complications for diabetes for anyone who refused to take the cure.

Those of us who are vaccinated did the responsible thing. It's time for the unvaccinated to live up to the ideals of individual freedom and personal responsibility by taking on more of the consequences of their actions. Some are nervous about the possible risks of a vaccine and are waiting - but they should bear not only the health but also the financial risks of their hesitancy.

The complaint that lockdowns and mandates infantilize the population is reasonable. We should be able to make choices about our levels of risk tolerance. And every aspect of life comes with risks. But we don't get to impose serious costs on others, and expecting others to pay is not only puerile but makes hard mandates more likely.

Real adults take responsibility for their decisions.

Now read:MarketWatch's daily COVID column

Jonathan Meer is the Mary Julia and George R. Jordan Jr. Professor of Public Policy in the economic department at Texas A&M University in College Station.

More:Here's a glimmer of hope that more unvaccinated Americans are willing to get the COVID-19 shot

And:CNN fires three employees who came to work unvaccinated


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sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
1  seeder  sandy-2021492    4 months ago
Who should bear those costs? Under our system of risk-sharing, it's all of us, whether through government programs like Medicare and Medicaid or through private insurers. When someone who refuses to get the vaccine gets seriously ill, their bills currently are paid by taxpayers or others in their insurance group.

But why should the vaccinated bear those financial costs? Insurers, led by government programs, should declare that medically-able, eligible people who choose not to be vaccinated are responsible for the full financial cost of COVID-related hospitalizations, effective in six weeks.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2  Sparty On    4 months ago

A damn slippery slope.

Don't want the flu shot? .... pay the full cost of landing in a hospital for the flu.

Wanna play sports? ..... pay the full cost of any injuries incurred while playing sports

Wanna eat endless cheeseburgers?   .... pay the full cost of your coming heart-attack

Etc, etc .....

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2    4 months ago

Health insurances have been charging higher premiums for people who engage in risky behaviors for years.  They can, and often do, charge higher premiums for smokers and those who are obese.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1    4 months ago

Like i said, a damn slippery slope.  

Would you like to discuss the examples i brought up or keep deflecting to other ones.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.2  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.1    4 months ago

So, endless cheeseburgers don't lead to obesity?  You brought up health choices that might lead to increased charges, and I gave examples of some that already do.

And BTW, this being my seed, I'll discuss what I like on it.  If you want to direct discussion, go elsewhere.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.2    4 months ago
So, endless cheeseburgers don't lead to obesity?

Not for everyone.   Not all metabolisms are the same.  

I can see your mind is closed to this line of reasoning so there is no point in pursuing it further.

Enjoy your witch hunt!

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.4  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.3    4 months ago

Enjoy paying higher premiums for people who won't take care of themselves, and expect you to do it.  I thought that was against conservative values, but it seems not.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.5  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.4    4 months ago

Lol, forget Healthcare premiums  .... i do that on every paycheck .... pay premiums for other people that is.   Those sorts of premiums are  expected and of course fully supported by liberals it seems. 

Man liberals are SOOOOOO good at picking and choosing premiums for everyone else except themselves

Amazing

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.6  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sparty On @2.1.5    4 months ago

I pay them, too.  I'd like for my money to be spent wisely, and not risked for ideology.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.6    4 months ago

Me too, I don't get where some folks think that those of us who are fully employed are also not paying the premiums for those who are uninsured.  I guess it's just the alleged conservatives who are paying for everyone else. . . . jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
2.1.8  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.2    4 months ago

One look at Trump's fat ass is proof that all of those Big Macs contributed to his obesity.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.1.9  Sparty On  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.6    4 months ago

I agree 100% and that knife cuts both ways.

The devil is in the details ....

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Senior Silent
2.2  SteevieGee  replied to  Sparty On @2    4 months ago

We have that now.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.2.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  SteevieGee @2.2    4 months ago

Well, but, that's different.  Somehow.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  SteevieGee @2.2    4 months ago

Really?   You pay all hospitals costs if you are hospitalized for the flu if you didn't get a flu shot?  

On what planet does that happen?

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Senior Silent
2.2.3  SteevieGee  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.2    4 months ago

You do if you don't have insurance.  The government doesn't pay for it.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.4  Sparty On  replied to  SteevieGee @2.2.3    4 months ago

Have you ever worked in a hospital?   I have.   For ten years.

The money they wrote off back then every year from non payment would curl your toes.

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Senior Silent
2.2.5  SteevieGee  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.4    4 months ago

Very few people can afford a $100,000 bill.  They have to file bankruptcy.  That's when hospitals have to write  it off.  If they think you can't pay the ventilator you need to stay alive may suddenly disappear.  This is the system that conservatives want.  If it were up to me we would all be covered by Medicare.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  SteevieGee @2.2.5    4 months ago

You think a bum coming in off the street acquiring a 100k hospital bill is going to file bankruptcy?   They aren't and actually many others aren't required to either but the hospital still has to write it off regardless.   So who do you think pays those costs?   Everyone who pays premiums pays most of it.   So it's already happening whether you realize it or not.  

People who have, pay for people who don't.   Liberals tend to slide right by that fact every time.

By the way a 100k hospital bill might have been a lot 30+ years ago when i worked in healthcare but it's nothing today.   Double or triple that is probably closer today

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.6    4 months ago

That bum who comes in off the street that has no insurance gets the minimum care allowed by law.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.8  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.7    4 months ago

Bullshit, he gets the same medical care as anyone else.   Yeah, he may get a double occupancy room instead of a private room but medically, they get treated exactly the same.   Hospitals have entire departments tasked with making sure exactly that happens.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
2.2.9  Sunshine  replied to  SteevieGee @2.2.5    4 months ago
If they think you can't pay the ventilator you need to stay alive may suddenly disappear.

That isn't true.  A hospital cannot deny emergency treatment if they accept Medicare or Medicaid (which most do) regardless if the patient is insured or uninsured.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.8    4 months ago

So if he comes in and needs a new liver the hospital is going to fall all over themselves making sure he gets one?

I don't think so

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @2.2.9    4 months ago

What if that hospital is private and doesn't accept any kind of governmental insurance like Medicaid, Medicare, and Tricare?

Then you're fucked or they haul your ass down to the cheap hospital where you might be lucky to get a ventilator

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.12  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.10    4 months ago

Think what you want but how long did you work in a hospital and observe such decisions?  It's a medical decision not social one no matter what you say.  

Sure if his liver is already shot he's not going to get a new one.   That is an informed medical decision not a socioeconomic one.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.13  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.12    4 months ago

I've been on the receiving end of what my insurance (TriCare) will pay for and what they won't

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.14  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.13    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.2.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.14    4 months ago

I plan to die with the liver I came into this world with

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
2.2.16  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.2.15    4 months ago

Good plan ... i'd stick to it

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
2.2.17  Kathleen  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.8    4 months ago

You are right, they are not allowed to treat anyone differently because of their financial situation. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
3  Kavika     4 months ago

I totally agree with this opinion. We are never going to stop Covid of the varients without taking steps to ensure that all that can be are vaccinated. Once businesses (some are) insist that their employees be vaccinated and insurance companies quit paying for those that refuse will be see a return to somewhat normal life again.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
4  Thrawn 31    4 months ago

I am okay with this. Why the fuck should my insurance rates go up because some [deleted] out there refuse to do the easy and socially responsible thing and get vaccinated? 
This isn’t something that comes down to lifestyle choices or anything. This is a public health emergency.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1  Sparty On  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4    4 months ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
4.1.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  Sparty On @4.1    4 months ago

Actually the majority of aids positive folks are heterosexual.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.2  Sparty On  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.1    4 months ago

Actually the majority of AIDs positive folks, per capita, are gay.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
4.1.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.2    4 months ago

Per capita maybe, I do t know that stat and don’t feel like looking it up, but raw numbers the majority by far are heterosexual.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.3    4 months ago

Yup, fun with statistics ......

 
 
 
SteevieGee
Senior Silent
4.1.5  SteevieGee  replied to  Sparty On @4.1    4 months ago

Do you actually believe that people at higher risk don't pay higher premiums for health insurance?  You think a 60 year old chain smoking truck driver pays the same as a 25 year old receptionist that has never smoked?  The taxpayers pay for the vaccine.  It's available to virtually everyone in the country.  Why should the taxpayers have to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to care for idiots who refuse the vaccine?

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
4.1.6  Sunshine  replied to  SteevieGee @4.1.5    4 months ago
Do you actually believe that people at higher risk don't pay higher premiums for health insurance?  You think a 60 year old chain smoking truck driver pays the same as a 25 year old receptionist that has never smoked? 

Most people are covered by insurance through their employer where yes all employees are covered for the same premium regardless of health, age, sex.   And all Medicare recipients pay the same premium.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  SteevieGee @4.1.5    4 months ago
Do you actually believe that people at higher risk don't pay higher premiums for health insurance?

I never said that.   I said it's a damn slippery slope picking and choosing.   Examples were provided but largely ignored and rationalized away.

And sadly the creeping ageism in your post is all too prevalent these days.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
4.1.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sunshine @4.1.6    4 months ago
And all Medicare recipients pay the same premium.

Yep and thank God for that. My 7 days in the ICU, 9 days in the "general population", and 11 days as an inpatient at home will all be covered 100% due to the fact that I was tested positive within 14 days of the hospital admission (it was 4 days). I'm loving my Medicare..........

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.4    4 months ago

Says the 'stats man' who provides no stats to back up his claims.  

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.10  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.2    4 months ago

In Africa the majority of HIV + are hetero

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.8    4 months ago

I'm glad you came thru it and Medicare covered your expenses. You're not the target here because the vaxx wasn't available last fall...that is when you got sick, wasn't it?

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.12  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.10    4 months ago
In Africa the majority of HIV + are hetero

Good to know ..... now back to our regularly scheduled discussion about American healthcare situations

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
4.1.13  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.11    4 months ago

No I got sick at the end of this last March just a week and a half before my first Moderna shot appointment. Last fall I tested positive but was asymptomatic. I was told by a nurse neighbor that I should be good this year for about 4-5 months since I "had it" in November, was asymptomatic and probably had the antibodies already. That is why I think, although my wife definitely had it back then as she lost her smell and taste senses, my test may have been a false positive. Although my doctor thinks I may have contracted the variant and that was why it was so severe.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
4.1.14  Thrawn 31  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.13    4 months ago

The virus is no joke. When I had it I felt pretty bad, the Flu was worse, but this son of a bitch LINGERED. I am a healthy mid 30s male with no chronic illnesses of any kind and it knocked me on my ass for about 9 days. Some people are just fine, but I can definitely see how someone in their 60s or with underlying health conditions could be at serious risk of death from it. 

Even though I had it I got the vaccine as well, cannot be over protected right? 

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.15  Trout Giggles  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.13    4 months ago

Wow. Right before your first shot. That sucks, Man. Still glad you pulled thru

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.16  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.12    4 months ago
Actually the majority of AIDs positive folks, per capita, are gay.

Did you mention the USA in that comment? Did Thrawn mention the USA in his comment...you know...the one you were responding to?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
4.1.17  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.14    4 months ago

I got the vaccine as well. Second shot was July 6. And yes, it was rough.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.18  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.16    4 months ago

Deleted

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.19  Sparty On  replied to  Thrawn 31 @4.1.14    4 months ago

I got both shots as soon as i could but it was more for others than it was me.

Had i been the only concern i might not have got it when i could on the first round but that wasn't the reality of it for me.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
4.1.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.18    4 months ago

Nice try. I painted you into a corner so you respond with an insult.

Good job, Boy-O!

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
4.1.21  Sparty On  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.20    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.22  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @4.1.20    4 months ago

Good job TG.  You're correct as usual.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
PhD Principal
4.1.23  Split Personality  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1.8    4 months ago
I'm loving my Medicare..........

True that. We are just finishing with the BIL's Estate and paid a handful of small bills less than $100,

a $350 and a $1734.00.  Humana/ Medicare dealt with the other $350,000.00 or he would have been bankrupted.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
5  JBB    4 months ago

If you don't take due diligence you void the warranty. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
6  Sunshine    4 months ago
 should declare that medically-able, eligible people who choose not to be vaccinated are responsible for the full financial cost of COVID-related hospitalizations, effective in six weeks.

Well fine if we want to apply this to all vaccines...pneumonia, shingles, measles, mumps, tetnus, flu.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1  Tessylo  replied to  Sunshine @6    4 months ago

That makes no sense.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
6.2  Sparty On  replied to  Sunshine @6    4 months ago

[Deleted]   They've decided what applies and what doesn't and that's that.

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
6.2.1  Sunshine  replied to  Sparty On @6.2    4 months ago

It's useless.

 
 
 
Sparty On
PhD Principal
6.2.2  Sparty On  replied to  Sunshine @6.2.1    4 months ago

[Deleted   Yeah, probably.]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.2.4  Tessylo  replied to  Sparty On @6.2    4 months ago

Reason . . . . jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.2.5  Tessylo  replied to  Tessylo @6.2.4    4 months ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
PhD Guide
6.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Sunshine @6    4 months ago

Good with me. Unless you have a medical reason for why you can't be vaccinated you should have to get vaccinated. Now if you have been vaccinated and still get one of those diseases then you are fine, you just had shit luck. 

And you cannot vaccinate against pneumonia, that is a bacterial infection, not viral. 

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
6.3.1  Sunshine  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.3    4 months ago

Pneumococcal Vaccination | CDC

Vaccines help prevent   pneumococcal disease , which is any type of illness caused by   Streptococcus pneumoniae   bacteria. There are two kinds of pneumococcal vaccines available in the United States:
  • Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine or PCV13
  • Pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine or PPSV23
 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.3.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.3    4 months ago

Community-acquired pneumonia (CAP) can be caused by viruses, bacteria and fungi.  Viral pneumonia is a complication of influenza-like illnesses and is a complication of SARS-COV-2. Viral pneumonia may clear up on its own; however, when severe, it can be life-threatening

There are two kinds of pneumococcal vaccines available in the United States:Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine or PCV13. Pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine or PPSV23.

When I got avian pneumonia which was a bacterial infection, it almost killed me because the shot I got yearly did not protect me against it that particular strain.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.3.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.2    4 months ago

Birds carry a different type of bacteria from the one that causes streptococcal pneumonia. BRB...gonna go Wiki that*

*Exposure to birds is associated with Chlamydia psittaci

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.3.4  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.3.3    4 months ago

I used to be a nurse but had no idea that chlamydia could invade the lungs as my specialty was burns.  I until then only thought it invaded my lady parts.  When the doctor told me it was in my lungs, I asked him if he examined the right area of me.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
6.3.5  Trout Giggles  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.4    4 months ago

Bacteria are weird. They show up in the oddest of places

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.3.6  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @6.3.5    4 months ago

It sure did in my case.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7  Kathleen    4 months ago

No, I don’t agree with making them pay for the illness. 

If you were a smoker, should you pay full cost for your cancer treatments?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @7    4 months ago

Then you get to pay for it.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Kathleen  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1    4 months ago

Let China pay the bill if they get Covid.

We pay for a lot of things....

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.2  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    4 months ago

What a ridiculous response.  How do you propose that hospitals or insurance companies recoup costs from China?  They demand payment, China says "fuck off, you're the one who didn't get the vaccine", and that's the end of it.

It's easy for insurance companies to raise premiums, and pretty much impossible for them to sue an entire country.  Which do you think they'll do?

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Kathleen  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.2    4 months ago

Actually it isn’t. They should pay for all the funerals, health costs before and after the vaccines. 

When you “really” think about it that is. I am just looking at the big picture.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.4  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.3    4 months ago
Actually it isn’t.

Oh?  Who do you suppose is going to enforce the results of the lawsuits aimed at achieving this?  It's wishful thinking, Kathleen.  Mexico didn't pay for the wall, and China isn't going to pay for the funerals of Covid victims.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Kathleen  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.4    4 months ago

Probably no one, but they should. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.6  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.5    4 months ago
Probably no one

There you have it.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.4    4 months ago
It's wishful thinking, Kathleen. 

It's not even that. [Deleted]

c'com ticket #3! With points!

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.8  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.1    4 months ago
Let China pay the bill if they get Covid.

Good point Kathleen.  Wish we could sue them.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.9  Trout Giggles  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.8    4 months ago

jrSmiley_98_smiley_image.gif

[ Deleted ]

[ ticket number 4? ]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.7    4 months ago

jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.11  Trout Giggles  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.7    4 months ago

You're the best, Freewill! I like your commentary

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Trout Giggles  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.9    4 months ago

Why not? Am I making you work too hard?

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.13  Kathleen  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.8    4 months ago

Thanks Sunshine, hope you are doing well.. jrSmiley_2_smiley_image.png

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.14  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.8    4 months ago

Knock yourself out.  Let us all know how it turns out, will ya?

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
7.1.15  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Trout Giggles @7.1.11    4 months ago

It made me smile.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.16  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.14    4 months ago

I guess you missed the word wish. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.17  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.16    4 months ago

I didn't miss that you were agreeing with Kathleen that we should "let China pay the bill".

So, let us know how that goes, mmkay?

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.18  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.17    4 months ago

Mmm no, you missed the word wish.  Meaning I wish we could make China pay.  I was actually agreeing with you in 7.1.4.  

It's wishful thinking, Kathleen. 



It helps if you read a post correctly.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.19  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.18    4 months ago
Good point Kathleen.

In response to

Let China pay the bill if they get Covid.

I read your post in context.  You agreed with a ridiculous comment.  You deemed that ridiculous comment a "good point".  If you don't want to have folks point out that you agreed with a ridiculous comment, don't agree with ridiculous comments.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.20  Sunshine  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.19    4 months ago

It is a good point.  I didn’t say it was possible.  Again read correctly.
You said it was wishful thinking too.  So by your reasoning you are agreeing with a ridiculous comment.

Too funny.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.21  Kathleen  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.20    4 months ago

Good god.....

Now that you mention it, yep.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.22  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.20    4 months ago

"Let China pay for it" is a good point?

Sure, sure.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.23  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.21    4 months ago

Sure, why shouldn’t they pay if responsible for the killing of millions?  Unfortunately justice for their deaths will never happen.

 
 
 
Sunshine
PhD Guide
7.1.24  Sunshine  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.21    4 months ago
Good god...

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.25  Kathleen  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.23    4 months ago

I always go to the source of it all. I know... it’s a shame.

Have a good weekend.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.26  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sunshine @7.1.23    4 months ago

Are they the only ones responsible, Kathleen?

What about those who downplayed it for political reasons?  Maybe those who abolished our pandemic response team?

Those who refused (and still refuse) to mask or vaccinate?

Diseases arise.  If we're going to sue people for diseases arising among their populations, we need to sue Russia for cholera, Mexico for H1N1.  Native Americans need to sue Europeans for importing smallpox, measles, and bubonic plague.  We should sue England for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
7.1.27  Kathleen  replied to  sandy-2021492 @7.1.26    4 months ago

Did they try to cover it up? Even Biden wants to look into it. So you do not understand at all. I am going to wait and see what happens and I hope they get to the bottom of this. We can’t have anything like this happen again. 

Obviously we disagree on this subject. So I see no reason to continue.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
7.1.28  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Kathleen @7.1.27    4 months ago

Yes, some have tried to cover it up.  Trump wanted Covid downplayed. DeSantis has been purposely underreporting.

And something like this will likely happen again.  Because we'll still have people who object to mitigation and vaccines.  You can't stop new diseases from emerging. You CAN try to contain them, but not if a sizable portion of the population refuses to adopt containment strategies, as we've seen with Covid.

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
8  evilgenius    4 months ago

While the idea has some merit, I don't think this will be where the insurance industry will put too much pressure. I think it will fall more on the liability side for businesses where a business can be sued for not putting protections in place for workers AND where shut downs will cost them money. Otherwise I think that most medical insurance will just raise rates in areas of high infection rates to cover costs. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
9  JohnRussell    4 months ago

I like the idea but it sounds vaguely unconstitutional. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
9.1  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @9    4 months ago

Yep, that pesky, dusty document sure messes up the enactment of a lot of stupid ideas.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
9.2  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @9    4 months ago

Insurance companies decline to pay for treatment all the time.  Ask any doctor or dentist.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
9.2.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  sandy-2021492 @9.2    4 months ago

Yes they do.

United Concordia didn't want to pay for an implant...they wanted me to get a partial. I paid the difference

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
9.2.2  seeder  sandy-2021492  replied to  Trout Giggles @9.2.1    4 months ago

Yup.

A woman I know was scheduled for spinal surgery this week.  It was cancelled the day before due to the insurance company deciding last-minute that they need more info from her doctors.  I think she told me about 2 months ago that she was having surgery.  Two months was plenty for them to request any information they needed.

We let insurance companies deny coverage on the regular.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
10  Hallux    4 months ago

Before this is over the cost of private health insurance will skyrocket and this may prove to be what finally pushes the US to a Single Payer system.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
10.1  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @10    4 months ago

Good luck with that.

People will really shit bricks when their taxes increase to cover the costs of a Single Payer system.  Then they will be quickly reminded that the US government doesn't run anything efficiently.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
10.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Ronin2 @10.1    4 months ago

They won't be "shitting bricks" when they don't go bankrupt and lose everything. Why you fellas down there are so enamored with enriching insurance agencies, bill collectors, etcetera is beyond me. Aside from a few wealthy malcontents up here who are appalled at the idea of sitting in a waiting room next to a, shudder, poorer person, any political party that ran on installing the American system would be relegated to the hinterland for eternity.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
10.1.2  dennis smith  replied to  Hallux @10.1.1    4 months ago

Politicians have been in the pocket of insurance companies and their lobbyists for decades. Neither party has done squat to due anything about it.  

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
11  Kathleen    4 months ago

One note about insurance companies, they seem to be making the medical decisions more then the doctors. Which is very wrong. 

 
 
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