The man who shot Ashley Babbitt

  

Category:  Op/Ed

By:  vic-eldred  •  2 weeks ago  •  156 comments

The man who shot Ashley Babbitt
"I tried to wait as long as I could. I hoped and prayed no one tried to enter through those doors. But their failure to comply required me to take the appropriate action to save the lives of members of Congress and myself and my fellow officers."

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His name is Michael Byrd. NBC recently interviewed him:





We may recall that Ashley Babbitt was a 35 year old Air Force veteran and Trump supporter, who came to Washington to protest the certification of the presidential Electoral College results and stormed into the Capitol when security lines collapsed. She had no criminal record but clearly she was tresspassing and ignoring police instructions on January 6th.

The question remains, why did an unarmed trespasser deserve to die?

There are rules & procedures governing the use of police force in such situations. Those rules seemed to be ignored in orther to clear Byrd. The law says that lethal force must be used only against someone who is "an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and ... is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight."  Here is what Byrd said: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

Clearly, Byrd admitted he did not see a weapon or an immediate threat from Babbitt beyond her trying to enter through the window.  None of the other police officers in the room shot anyone. As a matter of fact, none of the officers at the Capitol that day shot anyone. Under the standard Byrd is using they could have. Under the standard Byrd is using police officers in cities such as Seattle or Portland, Ore., Chicago, and New York City could have killed hundreds of violent protesters who tried to burn courthouses, took over city halls or occupied police stations during last summer’s widespread rioting.

The NBC interview has confirmed, for many, our worst suspicions about the shooting and raised serious questions the integrity of the investigations/reviews by the Department of Justice.


Not many Police officers would have done what Lt Michael Byrd did.

A man wouldn't do it!


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago

It looks like Lt Michael Byrd just couldn't help himself.

He decided to do an interview and now we know the truth.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago

... at least somebody took the initiative in dealing with an insurrectionist mob.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
1.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  devangelical @1.1    2 weeks ago

So shooting an unarmed woman is OK with you?

What if she had been a black woman?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.1    2 weeks ago

What kind of person bashes in a locked and barricaded door?      A peaceful, reasonable person?   Or a "soldier" ?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
1.1.3  Greg Jones  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

The door was closed, the  window was barely large enough to climb through

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
1.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.3    2 weeks ago

The window was part of the door and they bashed in the window. 

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Guide
1.1.5  exexpatnowinTX  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.4    2 weeks ago
The window was part of the door and they bashed in the window. 

Immaterial.   His own words would convict him in court;  “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

There was NO imminent threat of not only death, but harm to him or anyone else.   

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.1.6  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.1    2 weeks ago
So shooting an unarmed woman is OK with you?

So if someone broke through your front door while you were demanding they stop with gun in hand and your family behind you, would you have waited for them to climb through the broken door to see whether they had a gun or what their "intentions" were before you fired?

This tired defense of Ashli Babbitt is nothing but disgusting conservative hypocrisy as they have defended the shooting of dozens and dozens of unarmed black men who were refusing to comply with an officers orders, many even being shot in the back as they tried to flee. But here they are circling their wagons for their fellow right wing conservative who was literally bashing in the doors of the capital and trying to gain access to restricted areas after being told dozens of times to comply with capital police commands. Right wing conservative hypocrisy truly knows no bounds.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1.7  XXJefferson51  replied to  JohnRussell @1.1.2    2 weeks ago

A lot of people bashed doors and broke windows and did a lot of rioting and looting in cities all across the country that was far worse than that event and those people were not shot.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.8  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.1.6    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Tessylo  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

Another false equivalence

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
1.1.10  dennis smith  replied to  XXJefferson51 @1.1.7    2 weeks ago

Those supporting the killer Byrd say one thing and when called on it change their comment by deflection/spin.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
2  Jeremy Retired in NC    2 weeks ago
required me to take the appropriate action

So he went straight to shooting.  Dozens of other actions and peckerhead decides to shoot first.  These aren't the actions of a hero.  These are the actions of a coward and somebody that should be in prison for murder.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    2 weeks ago

Correct!

We kind of knew it when it happened!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    2 weeks ago
Dozens of other actions and peckerhead decides to shoot first

Maybe he should have called 911. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
2.2.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2    2 weeks ago

There's an idea.  Maybe somebody with 1/2 a brain would have shown up.

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
2.2.2  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2    2 weeks ago

No, he should not have fired and aimed to kill. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
2.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @2    2 weeks ago
So he went straight to shooting.  Dozens of other actions and peckerhead decides to shoot first.

Funny how I've never heard that kind of statement coming from conservatives in any of the 135 fatal shootings of unarmed black men and women since 2015. I've heard "They should have listened to the officers commands, it was their own fault for not complying" but when it's a black officer and a white conservative refusing to comply some bigots will choose to just call him names and blame him for using deadly force. I suppose we really shouldn't expect anything else from conservative hypocrites steeped in decades of prejudice.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.3.1  Trout Giggles  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.3    2 weeks ago

Racism and bigotry are in full display on this seed

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Senior Participates
2.3.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @2.3    2 weeks ago
Funny how I've never heard that kind of statement coming from conservatives in any of the 135 fatal shootings of unarmed black men and women since 2015.

Maybe you should pay closer attention.

...but when it's a black officer and a white conservative refusing to comply some bigots will choose to just call him names and blame him for using deadly force. 

The racists like BLM are suddenly quiet.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
3  Buzz of the Orient    2 weeks ago

So with a screaming mob acting like animals (I saw the videos) are racing towards him and he's expected to say nicely, "Come on folks, calm down."

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    2 weeks ago

It's one thing for a cop to say I thought they had a gun and I felt threatened, it's another to say “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

Do you understand what he has told us?  I'm not sure he did, but I'm sure those who tried to protect him and those who know better and are strangely silent understand.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2  Tessylo  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    2 weeks ago

She was a domestic terrorist and got what she deserved.  I can't believe they made this whackjob a martyr.  

If she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now.  

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @3.2    2 weeks ago
If she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now.  

I believe they said the same thing about Heather Heyer.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.2.2  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2.1    2 weeks ago

... false equivalency.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.3  Tessylo  replied to  devangelical @3.2.2    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_13_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
3.2.4  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2.1    2 weeks ago
I believe they said the same thing about Heather Heyer.

"They" being right wing conservatives trying their best to deflect and defend one of their own after he rammed his car into the crowd of peaceful protestors. Now "they" are trying their best to deflect and defend for another right wing conservative and using a twisted false equivalence to apparently claim the white nationalist James Alex Fields is the same as a police officer defending the Capital. It's truly sickening to watch, but not surprising to see from right wing conservatives.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.2.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.2.4    2 weeks ago

They are doing the best they can. jrSmiley_74_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
3.2.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @3.2.4    2 weeks ago
crowd of peaceful protestors

Riiiiight.

Because "peaceful protesters" always arrived armed to somebody else's protest.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.7  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @3.2.5    2 weeks ago

The 'right' aren't bringing us their best. . . 

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
3.3  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    2 weeks ago

Racing towards him? Having to climb through a window is racing towards him? 

None of the other officers in the area reacted. None of the other officers discharged their weapon. In fact the SWAT team that was entering the building had to stop when they heard the shot as they weren't sure who fired. Neither were the officers that were in the area. Considering how tightly everyone was packed together- if he misses he would have hit one of his fellow officers; or one of the other rioters that hadn't made it through the window. 

Using the standards this idiot set forth; both BLM and Antifa should be scared shitless. They are the poster children for arson; looting; destruction of federal property; and assaulting officers with Molotov Cocktails, concrete milk shakes, bats, chains, and knives. Of course the left would demand every officer be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

All this is another great example of the two tier justice system in the US under Merrick Garland.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.4  devangelical  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @3    2 weeks ago

my source in DC tells me that when DHS officials were watching in real time the attempted insurrection, the calls for "shoot to kill" were very audible and numerous.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
3.4.1  Ronin2  replied to  devangelical @3.4    2 weeks ago

"Your source in DC" jrSmiley_80_smiley_image.gif

when DHS officials were watching in real time the attempted insurrection,

Veering off into Biden's alternate reality again. There was no insurrection as per the FBI report. 

the calls for "shoot to kill" were very audible and numerous.

Which is the reason only one scared little moron that never should have had a badge fired and killed an unarmed rioter that was climbing through a window; and couldn't have hurt him in any way in the process.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4  Tessylo    2 weeks ago

Heather Heyer was killed by right wing domestic terrorist scum.  

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Expert
4.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Tessylo @4    2 weeks ago

Well, if she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    2 weeks ago

She had a legal right to be there, and I would hope we could agree that protesting neo-Nazis is both legal and more moral than breaking into the Capitol building with a violent mob in an attempt to overturn a legitimate election.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @4.1    2 weeks ago

Well, if she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now.  

Worst.  Defense.  Ever.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Expert
4.1.3  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.2    2 weeks ago

See 3.2

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @4.1.2    2 weeks ago
Worst.  Defense.  Ever.

Did you note who's defense it was?   Jim was only repeating it to make a point!

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
4.1.5  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    2 weeks ago

Nice apples and cue balls comparison.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    2 weeks ago

Jim is comparing Babbitts death to Heyers which is absurd. As Sandy pointed out one was a legal protest (Heyer) and the other was an illegal entry into a clearly restricted area (hence the armed guard).  

The door to the Speakers Lobby was locked and barricaded. When the mob decided to bash the door down and try to enter anyway they were tacitly acknowledging their incursion might be met with violence on the part of law enforcement. 

Babbitt's fanaticism did her in. 

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Expert
4.1.7  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.6    2 weeks ago

Doesn't matter legal or not. The fact remains had either of them not been there, they wouldn't be dead now.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.6    2 weeks ago
As Sandy pointed out one was a legal protest (Heyer) and the other was an illegal entry into a clearly restricted area (hence the armed guard).  

Sandy is right on that. However Jim was using Tess's logic to make a point. Did you miss that?  As for the death of either individual - they were both wrong.


The door to the Speakers Lobby was locked and barricaded. When the mob decided to bash the door down and try to enter anyway they were tacitly acknowledging their incursion might be met with violence on the part of law enforcement. 

As I pointed out there are clear protocols for the police. Mr Byrd demonstrated that he ignored them.


Babbitt's fanaticism did her in. 

No John, a crime has gone unpunished. History will record what the fanatics on the left did when they got power.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.4    2 weeks ago
Did you note who's defense it was?

You brought up Heather Heyer in another thread before tessy did.  It's YOUR defense.

When statements like these are made, implying that Heyer was equally as deserving of death for protesting racism and antisemitism as Babbitt was for participating in a violent insurrection attempt, those making such statements open themselves up to accusations of defense of racism and antisemitism.

Because those statements do defend racism and antisemitism.  They make the case that those who protest racism and antisemitism should rightly expect to die for it, same as if they try to overturn an election.

Pretty disgusting, really.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.10  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.8    2 weeks ago
History will record what the fanatics on the left did when they got power.

Trump was still in office.  The left was not yet in power.  And the fanatics were the ones attempting an insurrection.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.11  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.9    2 weeks ago
You brought up Heather Heyer in another thread before tessy did.  It's YOUR defense.

She was the one who was first to say: "If she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now." 


When statements like these are made, implying that Heyer was equally as deserving of death for protesting racism and antisemitism as Babbitt was for participating in a violent insurrection attempt, those making such statements open themselves up to accusations of defense of racism and antisemitism.

Sandy, Charlottesville was a confrontation of two groups, not a simple protest. Violence was expected.


Because those statements do defend racism and antisemitism.  They make the case that those who protest racism and antisemitism should rightly expect to die for it, same as if they try to overturn an election.

Do you remember when the ACLU actually lived up to it's stated purpose and defended the Nazi's right to protest?


Pretty disgusting, really.

You are smarter than that.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.12  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.11    2 weeks ago

You equated them.  And it was disgusting.

Nobody said Nazis don't have the right to protest.  But others have the right to protest them, too.

And it was disgusting.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.9    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
4.1.14  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.12    2 weeks ago
Nobody said Nazis don't have the right to protest.

But they certainly don't have the right to ram their car into a crowd of peaceful protestors which is apparently what some conservatives here are trying to claim by making such a disgusting false equivalence.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.15  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.10    2 weeks ago
And the fanatics were the ones

The fanatics were the ones who covered for Michael Byrd and yes, they were protecting him before the transition of power.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.12    2 weeks ago
But others have the right to protest them, too.

And knowing there was going to be a conflict between the two groups, would you let Heather Heyer, if she was your daughter go to such a protest?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.17  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.16    2 weeks ago

Was she doing anything illegal?

No.

Nobody has the right to tell a grown woman not to exercise her constitutional rights.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.18  JohnRussell  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.17    2 weeks ago

Sandy, the mother should have known that a neo Nazi was going to intentionally plow through a crowd of people. jrSmiley_30_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.19  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.14    2 weeks ago
into a crowd of peaceful protestors

There were no peaceful protestors there:

"The formal rally was scheduled to start at noon Saturday but the first skirmishes of the day between protesters and counter-protesters were reported that morning."




Beyond the death that took place between two groups bent on confrontation was the killing of an unarmed protestor by a Capitol police Lieutenant, who was protected by the deep state left.


 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.20  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.17    2 weeks ago
Was she doing anything illegal?

Remember how we got here?  Tess said  "If she hadn't been there that day - she wouldn't be dead now. "


Legal or illegal if it goes for one it goes for the other! 


Any thoughts on the legality of the shooting of Babbitt??????

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.21  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.18    2 weeks ago
Sandy, the mother should have known that a neo Nazi was going to intentionally plow through a crowd of people.

If she had half a brain, she would know that confronting extremists is dangerous. It should have been left to antifa vs Nazis.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.22  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.20    2 weeks ago

Babbitt was attempting insurrection as part of a mob that attacked the police.  Surely you think it's legal for cops to defend themselves, yes?   Don't conservatives back the blue?

Your statements indicate support for the insurrectionist and a "got what she had coming" attitude toward the woman supporting equality.  That doesn't come across as especially patriotic. 

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
4.1.23  pat wilson  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.16    2 weeks ago
would you let Heather Heyer, if she was your daughter go to such a protest?

Heather Heyer, at 32 was a full fledged adult. Contrary to the social norms of the distant past, where you like to dwell, adult females in 2021 enjoy full autonomy in their lives. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.24  sandy-2021492  replied to  pat wilson @4.1.23    2 weeks ago

Damn us professional divas, driving and leaving the house without a male escort and shit.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.25  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.22    2 weeks ago

"Insurrection" is the buzz word used by the left. We can agree that she was tresspassing and failed to lisyen to police instructions, but not much more than that.

 Did that justify her murder?


Surely you think it's legal for cops to defend themselves, yes? 

Absolutely. I didn't see any of the other cops who had guns at the ready shoot her, did you?  What danger was this unarmed woman to these Capitol police officers?


Don't conservatives back the blue?

Not always. We didn't back Derek Chauvin did we?   


Don't progressives always want the blue to take every precaution when it comes to human life?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.26  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @4.1.23    2 weeks ago
Heather Heyer, at 32 was a full fledged adult.

And she went out to a violent war zone between two extremist groups.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.27  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  pat wilson @4.1.23    2 weeks ago
adult females in 2021 enjoy full autonomy in their lives. 

Evidently that does not apply to Ashley Babbitt. Wasn't she a woman?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.28  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.25    2 weeks ago

Her killing was justified, and therefore not murder.

Mobs are always a danger. They don't even need weapons to be a danger, in the numbers they were in.  After all, they accidentally trampled one of their own to death.  I don't see you getting all worked up over HER murder.

Plenty did back Chauvin.  There were quite a few who tried to pass off George Floyd's death as an overdose to relieve Chauvin of responsibility.

I'm not a progressive. I think it's perfectly acceptable to use deadly force in the defense of my country, when force is brought to bear against it.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.29  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.27    2 weeks ago

You keep forgetting that Heather Heyer was doing what she was legally entitled to do. Ashli Babbitt was not.  Autonomy does not extend to criminal activity.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
4.1.30  Gazoo  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.25    2 weeks ago

“"Insurrection" is the buzz word used by the left.”

some hack on cnn or msnbc uses it and suddenly people that cannot think for themselves adopt it and use it repeatedly, much like the word “sycophant.”

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.31  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.20    2 weeks ago

Vic, most of the mob said they were there to "stop the steal" on Jan 6th.  How were they planning to accomplish that?  By chanting? 

Or maybe by entering the House and Senate and intimidating and threatening the congresspeople. 

Or was it going to be just giving them dirty looks? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.32  JohnRussell  replied to  Gazoo @4.1.30    2 weeks ago

They were there to "stop the steal" . Were they going to get that done by walking around looking at statues? 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.33  sandy-2021492  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.31    2 weeks ago

How dare you know the definitions of words, John?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.34  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.28    2 weeks ago
Her killing was justified

We don't care what the Weasel at the DOJ calls it. There are millions of Americans who call it murder and we won't forget it.


Plenty did back Chauvin.  

Who?


I'm not a progressive.

That's fine. You get to determine that.


I think it's perfectly acceptable to use deadly force in the defense of my country, when force is brought to bear against it.

The country was in no danger from that little slip of a woman who was unarmed. If the country was in danger, Byrd should have killed all he could have and by his standard he could have. He should have stayed in hiding. When he told us why he shot her, he convicted himself in the eyes of the public.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.35  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.31    2 weeks ago
Vic, most of the mob said they were there to "stop the steal" on Jan 6th. 

Link please.


Or maybe by entering the House and Senate and intimidating and threatening the congresspeople. 

They came in contact with congresspeople?


Or was it going to be just giving them dirty looks? 

Whatever it was, it was far less than the violence blue state officials endorsed & allowed during the 2020 riots.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.36  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.33    2 weeks ago
the definitions of words

buzz words

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.37  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.34    2 weeks ago

Doesn't matter who says it was justified, Vic.  It also doesn't matter that you think it wasn't.  Your opinion is irrelevant, and in contrast to law.

Read the comments on a few articles about the Chauvin trial.  It's easy to find people who absolve him of responsibility. 

"That little slip of a woman" wasn't acting alone.  She was part of a violent mob.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.38  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.29    2 weeks ago
You keep forgetting that Heather Heyer was doing what she was legally entitled to do.

I didn't forget. I addressed it.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.39  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.36    2 weeks ago

No, Vic, real words. They're in the dictionary and everything.  You just don't like them being applied properly.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.40  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.38    2 weeks ago

So, do you think autonomy extends to the commission of crimes?  Because you're equating the two women's autonomy, despite one being a criminal and the other not being a criminal.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
4.1.41  pat wilson  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.27    2 weeks ago

Of course it applies to her. She made her own decisions, didn't she ? One very bad one but it was hers.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.42  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.37    2 weeks ago
Your opinion is irrelevant, and in contrast to law.

The ruling left has made a shambles of the law. Just today Merrick Garland has called on lawyers to help get around a Supreme Court decision:



The lawless are in charge.


Read the comments on a few articles about the Chauvin trial. 

Are you talking about social media?


"That little slip of a woman" wasn't acting alone.  She was part of a violent mob.

Then why weren't they all shot?

Why did only one cop shoot a protestor?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.43  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.39    2 weeks ago
They're in the dictionary and everything.

Like the pronouns that the gender instructors want used?

Like the "newspeak" Orwell wrote about?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.44  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.42    2 weeks ago

So, police can't defend themselves, because you don't like that law to be applied in this case.

The fact that only one was shot was due to the exemplary restraint on the part of the Capitol Police, while some of their own were being beaten with flagpoles by fake patriots.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.45  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.40    2 weeks ago
Because you're equating the two women's autonomy, despite one being a criminal and the other not being a criminal.

Actually, I'm not. I'm saying the similarity is that both put themselves in dangerous situations and btw, I expect more measured reactions from the Capitol police than I would from the "Nazis" (if that's what they were)

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.46  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.35    2 weeks ago
Or maybe by entering the House and Senate and intimidating and threatening the congresspeople. They came in contact with congresspeople?

Gee. When Ashley Babbitt climbed through that window, about 20 feet from the House chamber, was she hoping to rush in with her friends and find ..... an empty room? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.47  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.46    2 weeks ago

Maybe?  I still don't know why one particular cop had to kill her.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4.1.48  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.22    2 weeks ago
abbitt was attempting insurrection

An insurrection? Doesn't that need insurrectionists?  Who was charged with insurrection?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.49  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.43    2 weeks ago

Wow, you are just all over the place, trying to defend this violent insurrection.  And no wonder.  By the definition of the word, you can't deny that's what it was.  All you have is sad attempts to mock people who know that the word applies.  It's a pathetic attempt to censor those who call it what it was. 

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
4.1.50  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.34    2 weeks ago
We don't care what the Weasel at the DOJ calls it.

So when you agree with their judgement they are your "boys in blue" but when the law isn't on your side you call them "weasel's". Is that the strong smell of "Hypocrisy" from Calvin Cline I smell?

There are millions of Americans who call it murder and we won't forget it.

And there are millions of Americans who know dirty Donald murdered hundreds of thousands of Americans by lying to Americans about Covid and downplayed its seriousness and ridiculed mask wearing and social distancing. Should the whiny right wing conservatives biased bullshit opinions matter more than progressives and liberals factual reasoning about who is really guilty of murder? Neither Byrd or dishonest Donald have been charged or convicted of murder, so I guess perhaps those "millions" should get over themselves and accept that neither prosecution is likely to happen.

If the country was in danger, Byrd should have killed all he could have and by his standard he could have.

Babbitt was the only one who climbed through that breach, once she was shot the ones behind her stopped, so apparently his actions were effective and likely saved many people around him from harm. If she had made it through unchallenged who knows what those behind her would have done to those Byrd was protecting. He is clearly a hero.

He should have stayed in hiding. When he told us why he shot her, he convicted himself in the eyes of the public.

Total and unadulterated bullshit opinion with absolutely zero factual basis. His actions were warranted, his words clear him of wrongdoing, your interpretation of them is worth less than a truck full of used condoms.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.51  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.44    2 weeks ago
So, police can't defend themselves, because you don't like that law to be applied in this case.

Many regular police officers have found themselves in trouble for shooting people they thought had a gun. Byrd said he had no idea if she had one and he got in no trouble whatsoever.

So, if your'e claiming a double standard - there it is. 


The fact that only one was shot was due to the exemplary restraint on the part of the Capitol Police, while some of their own were being beaten with flagpoles by fake patriots.

Like the local cops showed during the year of violent riots when they were really threatened. Police stations were set on fire with people inside. Have you forgotten?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.52  Ronin2  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.10    2 weeks ago

So the left didn't control the House and Senate; and Biden wasn't about to be declared the winner of the election by Congress? Who knew. 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.53  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.45    2 weeks ago

Heather Heyer didn't actively create the violent situation.  Babbitt did.

The cops DID exercise restraint, even while Ashli's pals were beating them with flagpoles, crushing them in doors, and chasing down those the cops were charged to protect with zip ties and calls to hang some of them. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4.1.54  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.49    2 weeks ago
trying to defend this violent insurrection

If there was an insurrection, there must have been people charged with that crime. Who were they? 

We have to apply words properly, right? 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.55  sandy-2021492  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.52    2 weeks ago

You know this was before the inauguration, right? 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.56  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.51    2 weeks ago

The mob didn't need a gun to kill the cops.  They managed to kill one of their own just fine with their feet.

Anybody setting a building on fire with people inside should be stopped, with deadly force, if necessary.

The only double standard here is yours.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.57  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.54    2 weeks ago

Can you show us the definition doesn't apply, Sean?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4.1.58  Sean Treacy  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.57    2 weeks ago

Sure. No one has been so much as charged with engaging in an insurrection, let alone convicted.  It's a specific criminal statute.  Can't have an insurrection without insurrectionists. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.59  JohnRussell  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.28    2 weeks ago
Mobs are always a danger. They don't even need weapons to be a danger, in the numbers they were in.

good point. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.60  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.49    2 weeks ago
Wow, you are just all over the place, trying to defend this violent insurrection.

Lol, I am?  I think Iv'e been very concise.


 By the definition of the word, you can't deny that's what it was. 

It was not. Let me tell you where it does apply.


  All you have is sad attempts to mock people who know that the word applies. 

What I have is a true indictment: First of a reckless Capitol police officer who committed murder. Second I have an indictment of a political party run by the radical left which allowed looting, arson and even murder in multiple cities over the course of many months in which antifa and BLM had prominent roles. A political party that condemned law enforcement as "sytemically racist." A political party that dedicated itself to removing a President from office. A political party that seeks to empower itself by defying the Constitution, skirting rules, eradicating traditions and customs, adopting the language of Karl Marx and engaging in class warfare.

If you want to use the term "insurrection" correctly, you need to apply it there.

Good night Sandy.



 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
4.1.61  dennis smith  replied to  pat wilson @4.1.41    2 weeks ago

Killer Byrd made his own decision and in his own words now admits that he didn't know what her intentions were, what was in her hands etc. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
4.1.62  JohnRussell  replied to  dennis smith @4.1.61    2 weeks ago

Her intentions were to go into the House of Representatives and go after members.

What else would her intentions have been? 

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.63  sandy-2021492  replied to  Sean Treacy @4.1.58    2 weeks ago

Odd that you only want to allow it to be called an insurrection if there are charges filed for insurrection.  I wonder why you don't apply the same standard when Vic says Babbitt was murdered.

Double standards, indeed.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.64  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1.60    2 weeks ago

You have an indictment?  Do tell.  Your biased accusations do not add up to an indictment.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.65  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @4.1.18    2 weeks ago

The only good neo-Nazi is a . . . . . . . . . . . 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
4.1.66  Tessylo  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @4.1.50    2 weeks ago

jrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpgjrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpgjrSmiley_93_smiley_image.jpg

jrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_81_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
4.1.67  Ronin2  replied to  sandy-2021492 @4.1.55    2 weeks ago

The Democrats controlled the House and Senate correct?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
4.1.68  sandy-2021492  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.67    2 weeks ago

No.

On January 6th, there were 51 Republicans and 46 Democrats.  Two independents.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  author  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago

Why are certain comments locked?

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Expert
5.1  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    2 weeks ago

It's that glitch again that we had some weeks back. If you refresh they unlock. I'm having the same thing again as well as a few other issues.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1    2 weeks ago
If you refresh they unlock

Ahh...Thank you sir

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

Right wing extremists do not respect government. That is why they see no problem with a violent mob entering the chamber of the national legislature, which would have happened about five seconds after they got past the door Byrd was guarding. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

That's a dangerous idea isn't it?  If we start deciding which protests are moral and which are not we'll have the same kind of abuses coming from the right when they take power in 2022.

Or do you really think this double standard will go on indefinitely?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    2 weeks ago

Your comment is not a reply to what I said at all. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

You are saying something that Sandy introduced - that we each get to decide which protests are good and which are bad.

I say that's a dangerous idea. It leads to the James Comey/J Edgar Hoover types taking action

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.2    2 weeks ago

One was a protest, the other was a violent mob attempt to enter a restricted area of the national government. That cop didnt know that there were no representatives who would be in danger if Babbitt and her friends got past him. 

Who was Heyer threatening?

Your attempt to say they were similar protests is lame. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.3    2 weeks ago
One was a protest,

One was a violent anti-protest, was it not?  Who was given the right to protest in Charlottesville?

Do you see it yet, John?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.5  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.4    2 weeks ago

You are not good at this Vic.  The white supremacists came to the Charlottesville rally with homemade weapons. They are the ones who actually started the violence. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.6  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.1    2 weeks ago

It's hilarious how some folks think the alleged conservatives 'will take power in 2022' or 2024

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.5    2 weeks ago
You are not good at this Vic.

Way too good it would seem. 


 The white supremacists came to the Charlottesville rally with homemade weapons.

So did fucking antifa. The pro statue group could have had their protest and gone home. The counter protest meant there would be bloodshed.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.6    2 weeks ago
It's hilarious how some folks think the alleged conservatives 'will take power in 2022' or 2024

I guarantee it!  All we needed was those nice radical policies the moron in the White House and the radical in the House pushed through.  You are going to lose the congress big time next year.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.9  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.7    2 weeks ago

As usual , you dont know what you are talking about.  The people who held the rally permit were "Unite The Right" , a conglomeration of white supremacist groups. Defending the statue was nothing but a veneer. Why dont you try reading something some time Vic?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.10  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.9    2 weeks ago

Actually I seem to know a great deal more than you do - as usual!!!

You seem to have forgotten how many times you told us that. Do you understand what you are saying?  The group calling itself "Unite The Right" had the permit.  The counter protestors did not. Think about it John. If the Governor had any common sense he wouldn't have let any other groups in. No violence - GET IT?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
6.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1.10    2 weeks ago

So you wanted an openly racist and anti-semitic protest to go on without ANY counter protesters.  That is very revealing Vic. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
6.1.12  Tessylo  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.9    2 weeks ago

Some need to keep dreaming about the gqp regaining power in 2022 and 2024.

DREAM ON!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.13  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Tessylo @6.1.12    2 weeks ago

If we are still both here come the 2022 midterms, I'll be sure to remind you.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
6.1.14  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @6.1.11    2 weeks ago
So you wanted an openly racist and anti-semitic protest to go on without ANY counter protesters.

Two wrongs never made a right!

 
 
 
Thomas
Sophomore Guide
6.1.15  Thomas  replied to  Vic Eldred @6.1    2 weeks ago
If we start deciding which protests are moral and which are not

You already have, personally and as a group her on NT. Your continuing and provable conflation of the BLM movement daytime protests with the riots that occurred at night to tar them all as criminal speaks directly to that point. You claim double standards and double speak, but seem blind to the apparition of these in your own writings as you defend the rights of some to destroy parts of the very thing that guarantees your right to pontificate.

Woof!

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
6.2  dennis smith  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago

Pure speculation

 
 
 
Ronin2
Masters Quiet
6.3  Ronin2  replied to  JohnRussell @6    2 weeks ago
Right wing extremists do not respect government.

Neither do left wing extremists. But somehow they get a constant hard pass from the left on their violence and destruction.

That is why they see no problem with a violent mob entering the chamber of the national legislature, which would have happened about five seconds after they got past the door Byrd was guarding. 

Which is why leftist extremists don't give a shit about destruction of federal property, assaulting federal officers, looting, and arson. 

Funny how leftist hypocrites call their hard core extremists "mostly peaceful protesters"; even when they are proven repeatedly wrong.

Of course the left love Byrd, he shot and killed someone they hate. The fact he was the only one to discharge his weapon means nothing to the Democrats. They have an agenda to uphold; and if someone has to die so be it- so long as it isn't one of their own. Switch the positions and have it be a white female officer shoot a BLM member trying to gain entrance through force; and the officer would already be charged, the media and Democrats calling for immediate conviction, and for the officer to accept her fate. The amount of hypocrisy on the left is staggering.

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
7  Hal A. Lujah    2 weeks ago

It’s so nice reading this and finding out that conservatives have a soft side.  Now we know that if a mentally unstable conspiracy theorist Biden supporter leading a violent mob breaks through a window and enters Congress under the protection of clearly armed security, then they will be safe from harm.

jrSmiley_88_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7    2 weeks ago

Or shall we take the precedent of the left and gun them down?

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
7.1.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1    2 weeks ago

Them all?  Who is them?  List, please.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.1    2 weeks ago
Who is them?

The protestors you are speculating about. Go back and read your own words in post 7

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
7.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.2    2 weeks ago

Post 7 is 100% sarcasm.  I’m asking you for the list of Trump supporters that have met the same fate as Ashley Babbitt.  You called gunning down protesters a precedent set by the left.  List, please.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.3    2 weeks ago

I think he's trying to say that the cop is a leftist. 

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1.5  devangelical  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    2 weeks ago

... a judgement likely based on face value.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @7.1.3    2 weeks ago
 I’m asking you for the list of Trump supporters that have met the same fate as Ashley Babbitt.  You called gunning down protesters a precedent set by the left.  List, please.

It's hard to follow your twisted logic. As I pointed out in the article, which you apparently did not read, Lt Michael Byrd set a standard by which police officers in cities such as Seattle or Portland, Ore., Chicago, and New York City could have killed hundreds of violent protesters who tried to burn courthouses, took over city halls or occupied police stations during last summer’s widespread rioting.

Obviously, the Byrd standard, which ignores police protocols will not be used on violent leftist protestors is reserved for the right and he could easily have gunned down another 50 protestors at the capitol that day, by his simple standard that I didn't know if they were armed, but they were advancing.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.7  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @7.1.4    2 weeks ago
I think he's trying to say that the cop is a leftist. 

He did have a little history. Remember I told you about the officer who left his gun in the men's room?

 
 
 
dennis smith
Masters Silent
7.1.8  dennis smith  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

The truth hurts the left so they refuse to accept it. So typical of them. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
7.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  dennis smith @7.1.8    2 weeks ago

And as an alternative to truth they seek the last word.

Should I let her have it?


Damn it, I'm always too good to the women. (It's been my downfall!)

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
7.1.10  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

My twisted logic?  In order for something to be considered a precedent, it must be replicated under similar circumstances.  Comparing an insurgency on the nation’s Capitol to the tiny fraction of the millions of civil rights protesters who damaged property is twisted.  The insurgents were chanting Hang Mike Pence and conveniently had a gallows erected for said purpose - regardless of your inability to hear the words that everyone else could hear plain as day.  They were advocating for the murder of members of US Congress, and one of their most rabid insurrectionists got herself killed at a key moment when their plans were hinging on a successful outcome.  Ashley Babbitt’s name will go down in infamy, because she got exactly what she deserved.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
7.1.11  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @7.1.6    2 weeks ago

Keep trying to suggest Babbitt was just an enthusiastic tourist who was just looking for a vending machine so she could by some candy.    Ignore the locked door and the furniture used as a barricade. It wasnt really meant to keep HER out. She was a good person who just wanted some M&M's. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
8  Hal A. Lujah    2 weeks ago

In case anyone forgot who this lunatic that committed suicide by cop was:

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8    2 weeks ago

It looks like she was doing about 50 driving down that road. She could have easily killed somebody. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1    2 weeks ago

Oh ya, she needed to be killed/s

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

She wasnt killed because she made a hysterical video while driving down a highway. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
8.1.3  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  Vic Eldred @8.1.1    2 weeks ago

When she jumped through a broken window separating a violent mob from members of Congress and challenged an official with a gun she committed suicide by cop.  Good riddance.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.1.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.3    2 weeks ago

The right doesnt want to face reality.  The door she climbed through was BARRICADED, albeit it in a makeshift way. That should have told the moron mob right then and there that this was a serious location. 

Babbitt got carried away by her own fanaticism. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.5  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @8.1.2    2 weeks ago

She was killed because she was an unarmed protestor of the wrong kind.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
8.1.6  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8.1.3    2 weeks ago
and challenged an official with a gun

THAT IS A LIE

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
8.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Hal A. Lujah @8    2 weeks ago

As I recall, the original video is at least twice this long. She goes on for a while. 

 
 
 
Hal A. Lujah
Professor Principal
8.2.1  Hal A. Lujah  replied to  JohnRussell @8.2    2 weeks ago

I don’t even have the stomach to watch more than 20 seconds of her madness.

 
 
 
exexpatnowinTX
Freshman Guide
9  exexpatnowinTX    2 weeks ago
“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

Let a cop of ANY color use that excuse when he/she drops a thug in any city and that cop will be prosecuted for murder.  It is that simple and correct to do.

I don't understand why this cop is being protected, other than a political narrative.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
10  Jack_TX    2 weeks ago

I have the exact same view of Ashley Babbit as I do of Heather Heyer or Anthony Huber.

If you go looking for violence, you should not be surprised when you find it.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
10.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @10    2 weeks ago
I have the exact same view of Ashley Babbit as I do of Heather Heyer

Then perhaps you need glasses. Heather Heyer was peacefully protesting on the street and had every right to be there but a vile piece of shit right wing white nationalist violently and illegally rammed his car into the crowd maiming dozens and killing Heather. Ashley Babbitt was a violent right wing conservative who attacked the capital, broke through doors and windows of our nations legislative body and attempted to stop elected officials from doing their constitutional duty of certifying an election and put both legislators and capital police officers lives at risk and was shot by an officer protecting those legislators. If you view them as the same then you have some serious retinopathy.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
10.1.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10.1    2 weeks ago
Then perhaps you need glasses.

I'm sure you'd like to think so.

Heather Heyer was peacefully protesting on the street and had every right to be there

That's utter horseshit.  Literally every part of that is wrong.

She had been participating in an unlawful riot for several hours and was half a mile from anywhere her group had a permit to be she was killed. 

She went looking for violent interaction with a bunch of armed thugs, and she found it.

Ashley Babbitt was a violent right wing conservative 

And Heather Heyer was a violent left-wing liberal.

You want to pretend there is some sort of distinction because one was on Team Blue State and the other was not.  But they were both actively involved in violent illegal activity.

But the facts are that both women were extremists looking for violence and met their ends when they found it.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
10.1.2  pat wilson  replied to  Jack_TX @10.1.1    2 weeks ago

And Heather Heyer was a violent left-wing liberal.

I'd like to know where you got that idea.

The paralegal and Charlottesville native was killed after a car rammed into a group of protesters near a "Unite the Right" rally in the city on Saturday.

Her mother told the Huffington Post she wanted her daughter's death to be "a rallying cry for justice and equality".

"Heather was about stopping hatred," she said of the 32-year-old.

"She was there with her friends, and she was trying to simply cross the street as the movement was breaking up that day, and she was ploughed down by a young man who was intent on spreading hate and thought hate would fix the world," she told NBC .

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
10.1.3  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Jack_TX @10.1.1    2 weeks ago
I'm sure you'd like to think so.

It's blatantly obvious by your comments.

That's utter horseshit.  Literally every part of that is wrong.

You have exactly ZERO facts on your side. The utter horse shit is your gross mischaracterization of a woman who did nothing but peacefully protest by all accounts.

She had been participating in an unlawful riot

More total bullshit. You have no evidence she participated in anything violent, the violence came from the right wing white nationalist piece of shit who ran her down.

She went looking for violent interaction with a bunch of armed thugs

At least you characterize the right wing pieces of shit and fucking worthless white nationalists and Nazi's as "armed thugs", but that's about the only shred of truth you've presented.

And Heather Heyer was a violent left-wing liberal.

And the evidence to back up your spurious claim? I won't bother waiting for it since I already know none exists. All you've got are vile lies in an attempt to shift responsibility from your fellow violent white nationalists.

they were both actively involved in violent illegal activity

You have provide no evidence of any violent illegal activity for Heather Heyer while we all saw the violent illegal activity Babbitt was participating in. The two couldn't be more different.

the facts are that both women were extremists looking for violence and met their ends

Just more useless fact-less horse shit. Yes, Babbitt was a violent extremists as is apparent. Please provide the video footage of Heather Heyer doing anything violent or illegal. If you can't then your claims against Heather are proven bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such a vile false equivalency.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
10.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to  pat wilson @10.1.2    2 weeks ago

It really doesn't matter what her mother says. 

She was participating in a riot.  That's a fact.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
10.1.5  Jack_TX  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @10.1.3    2 weeks ago
You have provide no evidence of any violent illegal activity for Heather Heyer while we all saw the violent illegal activity Babbitt was participating in. The two couldn't be more different.

I'm sure you're very desperate to believe that. 

Many liberals want very much to believe she's some sort of martyr, slain by a terrorist group they revile more than Al-Queda, ISIS and the Taliban combined. 

You hate the group she opposed so much you're willing to excuse any behavior opposing it, to the point of denying reality itself.

However....the facts are.....

  • Heather Heyer was participating in a "protest" that the Charlottesville Police had already declared was an illegal riot.
  • The only reason her group was there that day was to seek violent confrontation with the other variety of nutbags. 
  • Many of the people in her group were armed, and their violent conduct was well documented.

The facts undermine your blind bias.

 
 
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