Covid is surging in Europe. Experts say it's a warning for the U.S.

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  3 weeks ago  •  36 comments

By:   Chantal Da Silva

Covid is surging in Europe. Experts say it's a warning for the U.S.
Eastern Europe's deadly Covid-19 surge is a warning of the dangers of low vaccine uptake, experts say.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



As Europe finds itself at the center of the Covid-19 pandemic once again, experts say it should serve as a warning to the U.S. and other countries about the coronavirus's unremitting nature.

Case numbers have soared across the continent — more than 50 percent last month — and the worrying trend has continued this month as winter begins to bite.

Dr. Hans Kluge, the director of the World Health Organization's Europe region, warned Nov. 4 that the region was "back at the epicenter of the pandemic," and his words proved prescient.

The WHO said Friday that nearly 2 million cases were reported across Europe in the previous week — the most the region has had in a single week since the pandemic began.

In recent weeks, Germany reported record dailynumbers of new infections, with more than 50,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

The Netherlands also reported more than 16,000 cases — the country's most since the pandemic began — prompting the government to begin a partial lockdown Saturday that is set to last at least three weeks.

As case numbers surged toward the end of last month, Belgium reimposed some Covid restrictions, including a requirement to wear masks in public places. People also have to show the country's Covid-19 pass to enter bars, restaurants and fitness clubs. The passport shows that they have been fully vaccinated, have had recent negative tests or have recently recovered from the disease.

The country nonetheless recorded more than 15,000 daily cases last Monday.

Despite the surge, daily death rates in all three countries have remained relatively stable compared with past spikes, and experts have credited high vaccine uptake for weakening the link between the numbers of cases and hospitalizations and deaths.

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"Luckily, the high vaccination coverage limits the death toll and hospitalizations there to a large extent," Tom Wenseleers, an evolutionary biologist and biostatistician at KU Leuven, a university in Belgium, said Wednesday in an email.

Belgium, which reported hundreds of deaths at the start of the pandemic and then again last autumn, when a second wave of cases forced a national lockdown, has had its "hospital capacity tested" in recent weeks, Wenseleers said. But overall deaths appear largely to have been decoupled from high case rates, he said.

'Truly disastrous'


However, the same cannot be said for Eastern Europe, where, he said, the situation is "truly disastrous."

Over the last three weeks, Romania, with 591; Bulgaria, with 334; and Latvia, with 64, have reported record daily death numbers, according to Johns Hopkins data. Case numbers have also surged.

People on a street near Alexanderplatz in Berlin. Covid-19 infection rates have climbed dramatically in Germany in recent weeks.Sean Gallup / Getty Images

Saying the surge was "worrying," Wenseleers said he believed low vaccine uptake and high vaccine hesitancy were largely to blame.

"It's not due to lack of vaccines," he said, noting that the joint procurement of vaccines at the European Union level meant all 27 member states "were able to buy equivalent quantities of vaccines."

"Despite having access to vaccines, those countries did not manage to convince their population to get vaccinated," he said.

At least 1 in 3 people in countries in eastern Europe do not trust the health care system, compared to an average of 18 percent across the EU, a European Commission poll known as the Eurobarometer found,Reuters reported.

Romania and Bulgaria are among the countries with the lowest rates of vaccine uptake across the continent, according to the EU's vaccination tracker.

The latest data showed that less than 23 percent of the adult population in Bulgaria had been fully vaccinated, while just over 25 percent had had at least one shot. In Romania, just under 34 percent of the population above age 18 had been fully vaccinated, while almost 38 percent had had at least one dose.

A woman holds a poster at an anti-Covid vaccination protest in Sofia, Bulgaria, last month.Hristo Rusev / Getty Images

The Eurobarometer poll showed that respondents in both countries were among the least likely to express enthusiasm for getting vaccinated.

The vaccination tracker also showed that other Eastern European countries have low vaccination rates compared to their Western neighbors.

That "means that high case rates there translate [into] a very high death toll," Wenseleers said.

Danny Altmann, a professor of immunology at Imperial College London, said that as the first winter with the delta variant approaches, he was "not sure if people in Eastern Europe appreciate how punishing the pandemic continues to be in the time of delta."

Protesters hold a poster reading "Stop compulsory vaccination" at a demonstration against "compulsory" vaccination in Riga, Latvia, in August.Gints Ivuskans / AFP via Getty Images

"It's unremitting," he said. With some Eastern European countries "at the extreme end of vaccine hesitancy," he added, "there's no possibility of dealing with this pandemic under these conditions."

In Austria, which has long been a bridge between east and west, the government ordered a nationwide lockdown for unvaccinated people Sunday to slow the fast spread of the coronavirus.

The move means unvaccinated people older than 12 will be banned from leaving their homes from midnight Sunday, except for basic activities like working, food shopping, going for walks — or getting their shots.

"It's our job as the government of Austria to protect the people," Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg told reporters Sunday in Vienna. "Therefore we decided that starting Monday ... there will be a lockdown for the unvaccinated."

Epidemiologist Eric Feigl-Ding, a senior fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, said the high death rates should be "a warning" for other countries with low vaccination rates.

While he said he believed the most effective approach is multipronged, including coronavirus measures like mask-wearing and social distancing, he said vaccines and booster shots are critical to prevent the spread of Covid-19.

Wenseleers agreed, saying people in the U.S. should take heed of the situation unfolding across Europe.

People wait in line to get their shots at a "marathon of vaccination" at the National Library in Bucharest, Romania, last month. Daniel Mihailescu / AFP via Getty Images

U.S. states both with high and low vaccination rates could take Europe's case numbers as "a sign that the U.S. might still see resurgences, as well," he said.

On both sides of the Atlantic, "convincing as many people to get vaccinated should be the top priority," along with "setting up booster campaigns" for those most at risk, he said.

Chantal Da Silva


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Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
1  Paula Bartholomew    3 weeks ago

As long as we have the moron anti vaxers which include those in the highest positions of state and federal government, this warning will fall on deaf ears here.  It is just too bad that we can't do what Austria is doing, a lockdown of the unvaccinated.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1  Gordy327  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @1    3 weeks ago
As long as we have the moron anti vaxers which include those in the highest positions of state and federal government, this warning will fall on deaf ears here.

It has since the beginning. That's why we cannot beat this thing. It's not the virus that's the biggest threat. It's peoples collective stupidity.

It is just too bad that we can't do what Austria is doing, a lockdown of the unvaccinated.

At least Australia is doing what is necessary to get on top of this. Here, we just have people whining about their "rights" or "freedoms" or some BS like that.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
PhD Expert
1.1.1  Greg Jones  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1    3 weeks ago

Yep...fuck those BS rights and freedoms. Talk about Soviet style thinkiing. Big Brother and self righteous virtue signalers know what's best for the masses. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.3  Gordy327  replied to  Greg Jones @1.1.1    3 weeks ago
uck those BS rights and freedoms....Big Brother and self righteous virtue signalers know what's best for the masses. 

With rights and freedom comes responsibility. If one takes their rights and freedoms for granted, then they do not deserve it! And doing what is necessary to end the pandemic and save lives seems like it would be best for the masses, wouldn't you agree? Clearly anti-vaccers, anti-maskers, ect., do not know what is best, either for the masses or themselves. They're the self righteous, selfish, inconsiderate ones!

Talk about Soviet style thinkiing.

It's more practical thinking.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.4  Jack_TX  replied to    3 weeks ago
It is odd to me that some believe our rights and freedoms are in any way confined to the individual.

They're not.  But we don't allow them to be abridged simply because somebody is irrationally afraid....and that's the situation.

The biggest problem we have is that most Americans on either political wing are utterly dogshit at math.  But the math on this is exceedingly clear, and overwhelmingly confirms two ideas.

1.  You should absolutely get vaccinated.  There is less than zero mathematical defense for refusing to do so. 

2.  Once you are vaccinated, non-vaccinated people present zero risk to you, statistically speaking.  They're like people who embrace weighing 400 pounds.  They'll be lucky to survive the experience, but they're of minuscule danger to you.

So while lots of left-leaners seem very supportive of punitive measures against unvaccinated people, the math really doesn't justify that. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.5  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

They are part of a society and thus their actions will have an effect on same.   The obvious immediate effect is to strain our medical systems.   But the greater effect is the overall psychology.   There is a significant difference between a society operating with a substantial number of infections taking place in a seemingly endless pandemic and one that is not.    Compare the USA prior to COVID-19 to today: today's condition is clearly inferior.   If everyone (as close as is practical) were vaccinated we would have sound reason to believe that we would be back to a 'new' normal.

So not only is getting vaccinated smart for almost every individual, it helps their respective society move to a more normal (less agitated) state and I think that is a good thing.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.6  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.5    3 weeks ago
So not only is getting vaccinated smart for almost every individual, it helps their respective society move to a more normal (less agitated) state and I think that is a good thing.

I agree 100%.

However, I oppose forcing people to do it, because the math simply doesn't justify mandates.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.7  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.6    3 weeks ago

I understand your objecting to forcing vaccines on grounds of individual liberty.  And that is an important part of the equation.

Still, if someone does not get vaccinated they do put themselves at risk and further the negatives I outlined in my post.   They also put at risk all those who will not get vaccinated, who cannot get vaccinated and who are susceptible to breakthrough infections.    But, as you note, these numbers are small.

Thus forcing of vaccinations is a political question weighing liberty on one side and the good of society in general on the other.

But there is a lot of societal good to be had by getting the super majority vaccinated and moving on post-pandemic.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.8  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.7    3 weeks ago

I concur.

I think I would feel differently about a vaccine mandate if the current vaccines were substantially less effective

Not to mention the fact that we're apparently already on the verge of a cure.

Pfizer’s Novel COVID-19 Oral Antiviral Treatment Candidate Reduced Risk of Hospitalization or Death by 89% in Interim Analysis of Phase 2/3 EPIC-HR Study | Pfizer

The "cure" may make the vaccine almost a moot issue.

Even if it doesn't, if people want to politic themselves into an early grave, it's not my job to stop them.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.9  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.6    3 weeks ago
because the math simply doesn't justify mandates.

At what point does the math justify the means? The pandemic has been going on for nearly 2 years now.  The US alone accounts for nearly 20% of world total Covid cases, with tens of thousands of new cases daily. I don't see that as insignificant.

if people want to politic themselves into an early grave, it's not my job to stop them.

Maybe not. But their politicking could put others in an early grave.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.10  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.9    3 weeks ago
At what point does the math justify the means?

At the point where unvaccinated people actually represent a substantial threat to vaccinated ones.  That absolutely is not the case currently, despite widespread misconception to the contrary.

The pandemic has been going on for nearly 2 years now.  The US alone accounts for nearly 20% of world total Covid cases, with tens of thousands of new cases daily. I don't see that as insignificant.

It's not insignificant, but for the wide majority of that time, no vaccine was available to most of the public.  Even when they started rolling out in January, it was months before many people could get them.

Of the new cases we have, most are among unvaccinated people, and almost all of the hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.  The CDC keeps telling us we are in "a pandemic of the unvaccinated".  Believe them.

If you are vaccinated, you are safe.

If other people want to take idiotic risks with their lives, that's their right.  On a personal level, I've given up caring about them.  On a societal level, I absolutely oppose granting the government the ability to tell us all to take our medicine or eat our vegetables.

Maybe not. But their politicking could put others in an early grave.

No. Just no.  Math is real.  

Far too many people have fallen guilty of saying "I believe in science", and then denying science as soon as it says something they don't want it to say.  Let's avoid that.

Vaccinated Gordy is more far, far, far more likely to be seriously injured or killed by an unvaccinated person's poor driving than them giving you a disease from which you are now immune. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.1.11  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.8    3 weeks ago
The "cure" may make the vaccine almost a moot issue.

Only if people accept it.   We might have a few million anti-curers out there.     jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.12  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.10    3 weeks ago
At the point where unvaccinated people actually represent a substantial threat to vaccinated ones.  That absolutely is not the case currently, despite widespread misconception to the contrary.

The problem is, there are still too many people unvaccinated and many who refuse to get it. Breakthrough infections have occurred in vaccinated people and can possibly increase as more variants arise from the unvaccinated.

but for the wide majority of that time, no vaccine was available to most of the public.  Even when they started rolling out in January, it was months before many people could get them.

The vaccine has been out for about a year and is readily available. Yet, new infections and deaths occur daily.

Of the new cases we have, most are among unvaccinated people, and almost all of the hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated.  The CDC keeps telling us we are in "a pandemic of the unvaccinated".  Believe them.

That is obvious. I have said before the unvaccinated are the threat. That's why mandates are important and necessary.

If you are vaccinated, you are safe.

For the most part, but not guaranteed. Especially against variants. Many people are still unvaccinated and/or refuse to be.

Math is real.  

You still haven't provided a mathematical figure as to when the means are justified or not.

Far too many people have fallen guilty of saying "I believe in science", and then denying science as soon as it says something they don't want it to say.  Let's avoid that.

Unfortunately, many people don't want to listen to science, regardless of what it says.

Vaccinated Gordy is more far, far, far more likely to be seriously injured or killed by an unvaccinated person's poor driving than them giving you a disease from which you are now immune. 

Irrelevant. It's not just about me. It's about everyone. We need enough people vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Then we'll be in a much better position.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Participates
1.1.13  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.4    3 weeks ago

Jack_TX, I don't know that the data overwhelmingly confirms the idea that there is less than zero mathematical defense for refusing to get vaccinated.

The above link will provide an option to download data from England. Table 1 shows the number of deaths, and total population by vaccinated status, over a given week period, beginning Jan.1, and ending Sept. 24. For the last week shown, there were 95 deaths among an unvaccinated population of 7,637,511. For the same period, there were 444 deaths among a fully vaccinated population of 29,509,257. Just doing the basic math, for the week ending Sept. 24, 0.001244% of the unvaccinated population died, and 0.001505% of the fully vaccinated population died. Just to make sure we are catching everyone, 26 (or 0.0013%) of the 2,002,797 partially vaccinated people died. Aberration? In April, 95 (or 0.00023%) of the 13,724,085 unvaccinated population died, and 24 (or 0.00022%) of the 10,878,526 fully vaccinated people died.

To me, those numbers counsel more for the argument that there is no defense for mandating the vaccine. If it was mandate worthy, I'd hope to see results that weren't damn near identical. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.14  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @1.1.11    3 weeks ago
Only if people accept it.   We might have a few million anti-curers out there.

I know, right.  

We should start a pool on the dipshit conspiracy theories that will go along with it. 

I'll take "the pill contains miniature 5G transmitters".

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.15  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.12    3 weeks ago
The problem is, there are still too many people unvaccinated and many who refuse to get it. Breakthrough infections have occurred in vaccinated people and can possibly increase as more variants arise from the unvaccinated.

Are you really supporting the idea that we force or coerce people into unwanted preventative medical care because some future thing "can possibly" happen?  Are you listening to yourself? 

All of the statistical evidence works against you on this, BTW. 

The vaccine has been out for about a year and is readily available. Yet, new infections and deaths occur daily.

No it hasn't, and it wasn't readily available to those of us under 65 without pre-existing conditions or 100 extra pounds until 6 months ago.  

How about those new infections and deaths?  How many?  How many among vaccinated people? Again, the statistics work against you.

I have said before the unvaccinated are the threat.

They.  Are.   Not.   A.  Threat. To.  Vaccinated.  People.

You can't just believe science and scientists when they say what you want. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.16  Jack_TX  replied to  Transyferous Rex @1.1.13    3 weeks ago
I don't know that the data overwhelmingly confirms the idea that there is less than zero mathematical defense for refusing to get vaccinated.

They do the math for you.  Look in column E, and compare that number with column Z.

For the week ending 24 Sept, the age-standardized Covid mortality rate among unvaccinated people was 5.4 per 100,000.  For vaccinated people it was 1.1 per 100,000.

During that week, you were 4.9 times more likely to die of Covid if you were unvaccinated. That's the lowest that ratio has been all year, BTW. It's averaged about 8.8 times more likely since January 1.

It's also worth noting that NHS uses "deaths related to Covid" as opposed to "deaths due to Covid".

those numbers counsel more for the argument that there is no defense for mandating the vaccine.

You are correct here.

 
 
 
Transyferous Rex
Freshman Participates
1.1.17  Transyferous Rex  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.16    3 weeks ago
They do the math for you.  Look in column E....

No, I looked at that. They are using something other than a straight up rate/100,000 out of both groups. If you can explain what 2013 population data they are using to go from a rate of 1.243/100,000 (based on the data given) to arrive at an "age standardized mortality rate" of 5.4...I'll listen and try to get there. But, until I see what data they are using to arrive at the 5.4, the rate per 100,000, according to the numbers provided, is 1.243. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
1.1.18  cjcold  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.4    3 weeks ago
Once you are vaccinated, non-vaccinated people present zero risk to you

That simply isn't true. Vaccines are not a silver bullet. 

Masks, vaccines, social distancing and frequent hand washing simply put the odds more in your favor. 

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.19  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.15    3 weeks ago
Are you really supporting the idea that we force or coerce people into unwanted preventative medical care because some future thing "can possibly" happen?  Are you listening to yourself? 

Maybe you're the one not listening, as I did not say anywhere that we should force people to do anything. 

All of the statistical evidence works against you on this, BTW. 

Nope. There are still more cases of infections and deaths occurring on a daily basis.

No it hasn't, and it wasn't readily available to those of us under 65 without pre-existing conditions or 100 extra pounds until 6 months ago. 

Higher risk groups had priority until enough vaccines became available. Now there is plenty and some still refuse to be vaccinated.

How about those new infections and deaths?  How many?  How many among vaccinated people? Again, the statistics work against you.

Just refer to a Covid Tracker.

They.  Are.   Not.   A.  Threat. To.  Vaccinated.  People.

Not entirely true and short sighted. Vaccinated people can still become infected. We've seen breakthrough infections. That also ignores the millions who are unvaccinated, which can help the virus spread like wildfire or cause surges in cases, which we have also seen. Every unvaccinated individual becomes a walking petri dish for the possibility of the virus mutating into a new variant which can reduce the efficacy of the vaccine. So it's ignorant to say the vaccinated are not at threat. They are at a reduced threat sure, but not entirely safe.

You can't just believe science and scientists when they say what you want. 

Science says what I have been saying.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.20  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.19    3 weeks ago
Maybe you're the one not listening, as I did not say anywhere that we should force people to do anything.

You didn't support Australia locking down unvaccinated people?   It seems like you did.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.21  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.20    3 weeks ago
You didn't support Australia locking down unvaccinated people?   It seems like you did.

I said Australia was doing what is necessary to beat the pandemic. It's basically quarantine. But no one is being forced to be vaccinated against their will. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.22  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.21    3 weeks ago
I said Australia was doing what is necessary to beat the pandemic. It's basically quarantine. But no one is being forced to be vaccinated against their will. 

You'll notice I said "forced or coerced".  It's definitely a very strong form of coercion. 

It's also ridiculous. They've had fewer than 2000 Covid deaths in 18 months.  They lost 4250 from influenza/pneumonia in 2017 alone.  84% of them have already been vaccinated.

The idiocy of all of this is hysterical frightened people demanding that everybody take a vaccine despite the fact they clearly don't believe it works as well as every statistic says it does. 

CDC numbers:

Averaged weekly, age-standardized rates (events per 100,000 persons) were higher among persons not fully vaccinated than among fully vaccinated persons for reported cases (112.3 versus 10.1), hospitalizations (9.1 versus 0.7), and deaths (1.6 versus 0.1) during April 4–June 19, as well as during June 20–July 17 (89.1 versus 19.4; 7.0 versus 0.7; 1.1 versus 0.1, respectively). Higher hospitalization and death rates were observed in older age groups, regardless of vaccination status, resulting in a larger impact of age-standardization on overall incidence for these outcomes.

Among vaccinated people, the weekly mortality rate for Covid was a consistent .1 in 100,000....meaning 1 vaccinated person per million dies of covid per week.  

At that rate, we should expect to lose 17-18k vaccinated people every year from Covid in the US.

We lose double that from the flu in an average year.  But we don't talk about people who didn't get a flu shot some sort of danger to society.   

We've just been told to be afraid and we can't let go of that fear no matter how irrational it has become.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.23  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.22    3 weeks ago
It's definitely a very strong form of coercion. 

It's no more a coercion than it is requiring children to be vaccinated before they attend school.

It's also ridiculous. They've had fewer than 2000 Covid deaths in 18 months.  They lost 4250 from influenza/pneumonia in 2017 alone.  84% of them have already been vaccinated.

Bring it up with them then.

The idiocy of all of this is hysterical frightened people demanding that everybody take a vaccine despite the fact they clearly don't believe it works as well as every statistic says it does. 

Those who refuse the vaccine are likely the more hysterical ones. That's evident when they protest the use of vaccines or follow some conspiracy theory BS. The vaccines are effective and safe. However, that can diminish if new variants emerge, which is more likely if people are not vaccinated.

We lose double that from the flu in an average year.  But we don't talk about people who didn't get a flu shot some sort of danger to society.   

In the first several months of the pandemic, more people died from Covid than they did from the flu in a year. There are also many more strains of the flu. A flu vaccine is not effective against all strains. Covid is also more virulent and dangerous than the flu. And yes, people who don't vaccinate against the flu are a health danger to society. 

We've just been told to be afraid and we can't let go of that fear no matter how irrational it has become.

The most irrational thing of all is not getting a vaccine against a viral pandemic because one doesn't trust it or follows some misinformation BS about it. People irrationally fear their freedoms being taken away if they don't get vaccinated or some such bs! 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.24  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.23    3 weeks ago
It's no more a coercion than it is requiring children to be vaccinated before they attend school.

It very obviously is.  We don't tell kids they can't leave the house if they don't have shots.  WTF.

Bring it up with them then.

So you're reversing your support for it then?

Those who refuse the vaccine are likely the more hysterical ones.

Stupid....yes.  Absolutely.  Hysterical?  Well...they're not trying to force other people to do shit because they're afraid of shit they shouldn't be afraid of.

That's evident when they protest the use of vaccines or follow some conspiracy theory BS. The vaccines are effective and safe. However, that can diminish if new variants emerge, which is more likely if people are not vaccinated.

They are SO effective that we (vaccinated people) do not need to force or coerce other people to take them.  That is the entire point.

In the first several months of the pandemic, more people died from Covid than they did from the flu in a year.

Before. Vaccines.

Covid is also more virulent and dangerous than the flu.

Not. To. Vaccinated. People.  Because math.   That is what the vaccines do.  They make Covid less dangerous. 

People irrationally fear their freedoms being taken away if they don't get vaccinated or some such bs!

If you're Australian that fear is officially rational. 

I'm not sure it's irrational in the US when you see other "free" countries taking these kinds of steps and then you see people in the US advocating for us to follow suit.

 
 
 
Freewill
Junior Participates
1.1.25  Freewill  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.14    3 weeks ago
I'll take "the pill contains miniature 5G transmitters".

I'm in with "The pill contains an RFID tracker so the government can track us at all times, that is also why it's magnetic.".

What's the wager?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.26  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.24    2 weeks ago
It very obviously is.  We don't tell kids they can't leave the house if they don't have shots.  WTF.

Such hyperbole. We don't want kids getting other kids sick.

So you're reversing your support for it then?

Did I say that?

Stupid....yes.  Absolutely.  Hysterical?  Well...they're not trying to force other people to do shit because they're afraid of shit they shouldn't be afraid of.

Hysterical absolutely. They're the ones complaining about the vaccines, making up nonsensical stories and conspiracy theories about it, publicly ranting about it, ect.. All over a simple shot. Hysterical is the perfect word for it.

They are SO effective that we (vaccinated people) do not need to force or coerce other people to take them.

We need to reach herd immunity if we are to have a chance of beating this thing. 

Before. Vaccines.

And many are still suffering and dying after vaccines.

Not. To. Vaccinated. People.  Because math.   That is what the vaccines do.  They make Covid less dangerous. 

You like to focus solely on the vaccinated but ignore that there are still millions of unvaccinated people.

If you're Australian that fear is officially rational.

The rational thing to do would be to get vaccinated.

I'm not sure it's irrational in the US when you see other "free" countries taking these kinds of steps and then you see people in the US advocating for us to follow suit.

People want to end the pandemic. Necessary steps are required to do that.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
1.1.27  Jack_TX  replied to  Gordy327 @1.1.26    2 weeks ago
Such hyperbole. We don't want kids getting other kids sick.

I'm not sure how you call it hyperbole when Australia is doing exactly what I described....and you apparently think it's a good idea....despite all the science saying it's utterly unneccesary. 

We need to reach herd immunity if we are to have a chance of beating this thing.

Or....you could just get your ass vaccinated and not worry about the morons in the herd.

And many are still suffering and dying after vaccines.

No.  "Many" aren't.  Look at the math.

You like to focus solely on the vaccinated but ignore that there are still millions of unvaccinated people.

Now you're catching on.  As I keep saying, math.

The blatantly obvious math that says they are complete morons for not getting vaccinated is the very same blatantly obvious math that says we should mind our own damned business because they pose no threat to us.

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
1.1.28  Gordy327  replied to  Jack_TX @1.1.27    2 weeks ago
.and you apparently think it's a good idea.

Of course it is! If people don't want to get vaccinated, then fine. Keep them away from each other and the general public.

Or....you could just get your ass vaccinated and not worry about the morons in the herd.

If we don't reach herd immunity, we'll never get over this pandemic. It's the morons that are spreading it. Those that become infected may put a greater (and avoidable) strain on medical systems and resources.

No.  "Many" aren't.  Look at the math.

You never did answer my question about what the specific mathematical cutoff is.

we should mind our own damned business because they pose no threat to us.

They are a threat in general. Not as much to the vaccinated, but definitely to everyone else. Not to mention they can potentially cause an increase in variants which can reduce the efficacy of the vaccine. In your short sightedness, you keep ignoring that particular point.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
2  Kavika     3 weeks ago

I doubt that we'll pay attention as long as we have the morons that are anti vaxxers some at the highest level of county/state government.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
2.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @2    3 weeks ago

They won't protect those of us who want to see this over, so we have to protect ourselves the best ways that we can.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3  charger 383    3 weeks ago

I had Covid before they knew what it was and when the shot came out I complained I could not get it fast enough and I got the booster soon as they had it.  Having had what Doctor and I first thought was a very bad case of flu that took a month to get over, I don't know why anybody would not get a free shot that will protect them.  

Why take the unnecessary chance of getting very sick and possibly dying?

 
 
 
Gordy327
Professor Principal
3.1  Gordy327  replied to  charger 383 @3    3 weeks ago
I don't know why anybody would not get a free shot that will protect them.  

Because some people prefer horse de-wormer instead. jrSmiley_9_smiley_image.gif

Why take the unnecessary chance of getting very sick and possibly dying?

I'm going to take a guess and say it's because people are stupid.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
4  squiggy    3 weeks ago

The good news is that not one deathbedder has proclaimed, "I'm glad I didn't get vaccinated."

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
5  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.    2 weeks ago

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