A Firm No

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  vic-eldred  •  one month ago  •  118 comments

A Firm No
'I cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation

Minutes ago Senator Joe Manchin just delivered the final nail to the coffin of the BBB bill. Speaking on Fox News Sunday, he told Bret Baier that he did everything possible to work with his fellow democrats on a compromise:

"When you have these things coming at you the way they are right now … I cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation," he said, stating that if he cannot explain to his constituents why he would vote for a bill, then he cannot vote for it, despite all the work he and other Democrats have put into trying to make it work.

"This is a no," he said. "I have tried everything I know to do."

The fact of the matter is that democrats could have come away with something, but they never understood that they never had a mandate to make massive changes or "transform America." I actually recall somebody saying, right here on NT, that Trillion dollar budgets were the norm now. Can you imagine somebody believing that such spending was sustainable?

This should lower the temperature over at the Fed as they grapple with rapidly rising inflation.




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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  author  Vic Eldred    one month ago

Christmas has come early for American families that would have been saddled with higher taxes, child care costs, & prices at the pump if Build Back Bankrupt had passed. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    one month ago

Oh thank God! Thanks for seeding this.  I had a similar article but this one is simply awesome.  At the least, inflation won’t go totally out of control with this illegitimate monstrosity stopped dead in its tracks.  Let’s celebrate! jrSmiley_24_smiley_image.gif 👏👍🇺🇸🥳

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2  Greg Jones    one month ago

Bernie the Socialist is really pissed....

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Greg Jones @2    one month ago

Thanks for posting the actual interview

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3  Hallux    one month ago

... and now we will see if Democrats are of the same cloth as Republicans when it comes to 'DINOs' and 'RINOs'.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3    one month ago
.. and now we will see if Democrats are of the same cloth as Republicans when it comes to 'DINOs' and 'RINOs'.

What we will see is a whole lot of whining by liberals determined to "transform" America.

It has started already.

And what do you think Democrats will even dare try to do to Manchin?

Pelosi passed a bill she KNEW wouldn't pass the Senate.

Her mistake, and perhaps her last big blunder before retiring after she loses her position as Speaker.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    one month ago
And what do you think Democrats will even dare try to do to Manchin?

If they push him hard enough, he might just tale McConnell's advice.


Pelosi passed a bill she KNEW wouldn't pass the Senate.

Her mistake, and perhaps her last big blunder before retiring after she loses her position as Speaker.

I think she may have thought that Manchin would cave in, just one more time!

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.1.2  Hallux  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    one month ago
And what do you think Democrats will even dare try to do to Manchin?

Quite possibly the same thing that Republicans doing to Cheney.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    one month ago

Fat chance, Democrats need his votes on everything right now, and may need it even more after the midterms.

For all the Democrats bitching about Manchin, they sure loved him when he contributed to their "majority".

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    one month ago

She gets funding from the Lincoln Project. Are you saying that the organization is really run by democrats?

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
3.1.5  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    one month ago

Straight up trade Manchin for Cheney- done and done. 

Republicans would get the far better end of that deal. In fact they should push Manchin to run as a Republican for president- just like Trump did. That would really cause the Democrat's heads to explode!

Democrats can have their snake in the grass. They will never be able to trust her. She will turn on them as quickly as she turn on the Republicans. Her rampant TDS will only take her so far.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.6  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.5    one month ago
Her rampant TDS will only take her so far.

But you think Trump is slime too, right?   You reject his Big Lie.   Did I misunderstand your position?

How is rejecting lies by Trump (and rejecting Trump as the leader of the GOP and potential candidate) TDS?   Do you consider yourself as having TDS?

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.1.7  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.4    one month ago
She gets funding from the Lincoln Project.

Good for her, she and the Lincoln Project are a group of real Conservatives/Republicans all of whom you at one time in the not so distant past would have thoroughly agreed with. They didn't sell out to a glorified carnival barker.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.8  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.1.7    one month ago

What makes them "real Conservatives?"

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
3.1.9  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Hallux @3.1.2    one month ago
Quite possibly the same thing that Republicans doing to Cheney.

most of whats happening to Cheney right now falls under "State  politics " and the direction the state electorate is moving . And i will admit , wyoming state politics is a whole different sort of animal than anyplace else or either national party .

A point of note for those that dont live in wyoming , most times historically , or at least in the 30+ years i have lived here, the house member at large usually spends 3 maybe 4 terms in office and then they get voted out in the primaries or they decide to not run for the seat again  . thats just the way its done , Cheney is in her 3rd term .

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
3.1.10  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.6    one month ago

I can't stand Trump, the only reason I voted for him last election is that I refuse to vote for any Democrat at any level until they prove they are fit to lead again. As I was told repeatedly by Democrats and leftists after the 2016 elections; I caused Hillary to lose by campaigning and voting for Gary Johnson. I was a "deplorable".  Well no more of that. Since only Republicans can defeat Democrats it was the straight Republican ticket for the first time ever.

How is Cheney supporting Democrats benefiting anyone, other than her TDS driver self (or so she believes)? How is her allowing Pelosi to violate all Congressional norms (Pelosi's own damn words) upholding the law? She wasn't appointed to the committee by McCarthy. She is no longer a Republican since the state she represents the Republican party removed her. She has also been removed from all positions from the national Republican party. 

Anyone that thinks the Jan 6th commission isn't an extension of the Democrats program of get Trump at all costs for the last 5 and half years and counting isn't paying attention.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
3.1.11  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @3.1.7    one month ago

The Lincoln Project- where rejected Republican Establishment loons go to milk Democrats of their money, and enrich themselves.

That is the only thing they "stand for."

There isn't one conservative in the entire bunch.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
3.1.12  Ronin2  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.8    one month ago

The money and fervent support of TDS driven Democrats and leftists everywhere.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
3.1.13  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.4    one month ago

I’ll say it.  Yes, it is!  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.14  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.10    one month ago
I can't stand Trump ...

So why are your sentiments not TDS?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3.1.15  Sean Treacy  replied to  Hallux @3.1.7    one month ago
r, she and the Lincoln Project are a group of real Conservatives/Republicans

Someone fell for their bs hook, line and sinker.

The "Lincoln project" is pretty much exclusively staffed by activist Democrats. 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.16  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.12    one month ago

It's like the 1896 election. That was very similar to the one that produced this mess. In 1896 the elite funded William McKinley. America lost that one too, but things changed and they will again.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
3.1.17  Ronin2  replied to  TᵢG @3.1.14    one month ago

Sorry, not going to play your game anymore.

Even Trump is allowed the same rules and protections under the law as every other US citizen. He is also allowed the same protections as every other US president. TDS driven morons are willing to ignore all of that in their pursuit to get Trump at all costs. I will never support them.

If you can't see the difference I am sure John will be a long sooner or later to blatantly point it out.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.1.18  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @3.1.17    one month ago
Sorry, not going to play your game anymore.

It was a serious question.    What are the defining characteristics of TDS?    Clearly you have criteria that go beyond actively criticizing Trump based on facts and reason.    So at what point does a critic of Trump be viewed, by you, as having TDS?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.19  Trout Giggles  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.1.16    one month ago

Wasn't McKinley assassinated?

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
3.1.20  Trout Giggles  replied to  Mark in Wyoming @3.1.9    one month ago

So Wyoming does it right when it comes to their congress critters

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.1.21  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Trout Giggles @3.1.19    one month ago

Yes, by an ideologue. I don't expect anyone to get the point. It does have everything to do with the establishment and outsiders and that makes it relevant, so later today I'll use it as a history lesson for our geneneration.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3    one month ago
of the same cloth as Republicans

What?

Do you remember "Repeal and Replace?"  Have you heard of Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger?

There has only been one party that gets members to march in lockstep to pass bill without reading them or without fear of being defeated in the next election.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.2.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2    one month ago
Have you heard of Liz Cheney or Adam Kinzinger?

And how are they doing?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.2.1    one month ago

If you've noticed they have promoted Donald Trump JR's e-mail calling for his father to make a statement urging the Jan 6th protesters to go home.

In regard to the point you tried to make, you may have also noticed that Mitch McConnell, who initially questioned the credibility of the Jan 6th Committee, is now seemingly enjoying the Committee's revelations.

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
3.2.3  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2.2    one month ago

Junior is a barren acorn and does not interest me in the least. Moscow Mitch a.k.a. Mao Mitch? He has a one-track mind, keep him, he's all yours.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @3.2.3    one month ago

Down to name calling already?

Have a good one.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
4  Sean Treacy    one month ago

Poor Schumer. He was apparently willing to overthrow the Senate Parliamentarian and try and force amnesty into this bill too but Manchin has put the kibosh on it.

Of course,  that won't stop him from attacking Trump for "destroying norms".

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @4    one month ago
He was apparently willing to overthrow the Senate Parliamentarian and try and force amnesty into this bill too

That would be a real "insurrection."

 
 
 
Hallux
Sophomore Principal
4.1.1  Hallux  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.1    one month ago
That would be a real "insurrection."

One can't have too many squirrels. /S

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @4.1.1    one month ago

"The enemy is within the gates; it is with our own luxury, our own folly, our own criminality that we have to contend.” ― Marcus Tullius Cicero

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
4.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Hallux @4.1.1    one month ago

Can't have too many trolls either it seems.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  author  Vic Eldred    one month ago

This Just In:

"White House press secretary  Jen Psaki  said Sen.  Joe Manchin ’s (D-W.Va.) opposition to  President Biden 's social spending package was "a breach of his commitments" calling his reversal on the bill "inexplicable."

“Senator Manchin’s comments this morning on FOX are at odds with his discussions this week with the President, with White House staff, and with his own public utterances,” Psaki said in a statement on Sunday shortly after Manchin told Fox's Brett Baier that he was a "no" on the legislation.

It was the first time Manchin said firmly where he stood on the bill after months of wrangling with lawmakers and the White House to come up with an agreeable framework.

jen-psaki-6.jpg




Yup, democrats are taking it hard!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    one month ago

Funny how they blame Manchin when he made it clear what he could vote for but Pelosi decided it didn't matter to her.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1    one month ago

That's the strange part of all this. Democrats had a deal all along, but the squad & Sanders just wouldn't give in. They wanted it all and as we all know "pigs get slaughtered!"

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.1    one month ago
That's the strange part of all this. Democrats had a deal all along, but the squad & Sanders just wouldn't give in. They wanted it all and as we all know "pigs get slaughtered!"

That was well-put.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.1    one month ago

It seems like Democrats want to always act as if they have some big mandate from voters when the truth is they don't.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.4  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Texan1211 @5.1.3    one month ago

Just consider what they've done with a tiny majority in the House and a tie in the Senate. Remember what Union Generals said about Robert E Lee - he had audacity! The democrats have never been shy about pushing as hard & far as possible.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Masters Participates
5.2  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    one month ago

 "a breach of his commitments"

This dipshit knows just like everybody else that the Build Back Broke bill is garbage and she, and everybody else knew Manchin wasn't going to vote in favor of it.

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.3  XXJefferson51  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    one month ago

Good!  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
5.4  Sean Treacy  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    one month ago

Biden is throwing a tantrum. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
5.4.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.4    one month ago

Good!  Let’s go Brandon!  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.4.2  TᵢG  replied to  XXJefferson51 @5.4.1    one month ago

I am not in favor of this legislation either.   I think Biden should focus on ensuring the infrastructure bill is properly executed (minimize waste and corruption), focus on getting everyone vaccinated, control our borders (especially in terms of unvaccinated people coming into the USA) and do whatever he can to not add to the divisiveness at play.

My concern is for the good of the nation.  

Your closing "Fuck Joe Biden" is ugly partisanship and a lousy example of christian behavior.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.4.3  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Sean Treacy @5.4    one month ago
Biden is throwing a tantrum. 

And the White House is calling Manchin a liar. The strange thing is that they are going to need Manchin for everything they want to do, right up to the midterm elections.

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
5.4.4  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Vic Eldred @5.4.3    one month ago

Im starting to think they knew last thursday when biden said that the deal wouldnt get done by chrismas , it is now simply a matter of when the information was to be released to the public .... the timing didnt fit their narrative and they couldnt control it .

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.4.5  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @5.4.2    one month ago
a lousy example of christian behavior.

Exactly what does religion have to do with anything?

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
5.4.6  bugsy  replied to  TᵢG @5.4.2    one month ago

Your closing "Fuck Joe Biden" is ugly partisanship and a lousy example of christian behavior.

 

I went back through some of your comments during the Trump administration to see where you said the same thing about leftists outright saying "Fuck Donald Trump". They did it openly and over and over....

and there was nothing there.

Why is that?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.4.7  Texan1211  replied to  bugsy @5.4.6    one month ago
Why is that?

Not religious and it was okay because, well, Trump?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.4.8  TᵢG  replied to  bugsy @5.4.6    one month ago
I went back through some of your comments ...

You admit that instead of addressing the content of my comment, you are here to try to make this about me.  Your credibility is thus immediately in the toilet.

First, there is no way you could possibly get an accurate sampling of my comments (there are thousands of them) so your claim is bullshit.  

Second, there are many comments (hundreds of thousands in the time period you mentioned) made on this forum, the vast majority, where I do not issue a reply (and likely did not even read).    Thus your proposed method is fundamentally flawed.

Third, you are making an overly simplistic comparison.   My comment is dealing with someone who has "Fuck Joe Biden" as his avatar and has a history of making "Fuck Joe Biden" comments while self-describing as the typical Christian.   

Finally, if someone actually were to go searching through thousands of comments in a comment history to create a valid profile of a member in a forum, that individual would be properly advised to get a life.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.4.9  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @5.4.5    one month ago
Exactly what does religion have to do with anything?

Self-described proud Christian who sets a behavior example that includes an avatar with "Fuck Joe Biden" on it and where (it seems) half of the posts include a "Fuck Joe Biden" sentiment.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.4.10  Texan1211  replied to  TᵢG @5.4.9    one month ago

IOW, just trolling.

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
5.4.11  squiggy  replied to  TᵢG @5.4.8    one month ago

“…while self-describing as the typical Christian. “

Jesus, Mary and Joseph - there it is again.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.4.12  TᵢG  replied to  squiggy @5.4.11    one month ago

That is about as vague as one can be.    Are you trying to claim that this individual does not self-describe as the typical Christian?

 
 
 
squiggy
Sophomore Quiet
5.4.13  squiggy  replied to  TᵢG @5.4.12    one month ago

I’m just pointing out the Christian deflection bullshit card that gets played in lieu of fact. The move is usually followed with a pompous denial.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
5.4.14  TᵢG  replied to  squiggy @5.4.13    one month ago

Okay, show me where I engaged in deflection.   Produce the quote.

It will be interesting to see this magic trick.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
6  Tacos!    one month ago

Hey if the government wants to build or repair stuff we need, and they can pay for it, then I’m all for it. But it doesn’t seem like Democrats can honestly make the case that that’s all this bill does or that they can actually pay for the stuff they want to do. It seems like that’s all Manchin has ever been looking for, and that doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago

It makes no difference to me whatever Joe Manchin does or doesn't do, but I do feel sorry for the American people, even those who support the Republicans.  LOL.

chritstmas_2021_final.jpg

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
7.1  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7    one month ago

Reality;

The Whos down in Whoville were throwing a massive hissy fit

to try and intimidate the last true Democrat to cave to their demands in a snit

The Whos sang, "You ass, you DINO, you clown,

we want a free shit, So you had better back down!"

They sang of their need for big government from cradle to grave;

even if it meant they all had to live in a cold dark cave.

But the last true Democrat wouldn't back down,

Even when Brandon put his foot down. 

 
 
 
XXJefferson51
Senior Guide
7.1.1  XXJefferson51  replied to  Ronin2 @7.1    one month ago

Bravo! 👍👏🥳🏅jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
7.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7    one month ago
but I do feel sorry for the American people,

Why?

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.1  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @7.2    one month ago

I'm sure the rest of the world does as well.  Stagnation of legislation - going nowhere instead of forward.  A sick concept of exceptionalism.  Hatred of those who don' t "follow their fold" almost to the extent of civil war.  Gun violence only a third world banana republic could match.  Leading the world in fifty million covid cases and 800,000 deaths, and why?  Selfishness trumps the good of the community.  Do you want more?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.1    one month ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
7.2.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.1    one month ago
I'm sure the rest of the world does as well.

So the millions that attempt to immigrate here every year are all coming on rescue missions.   Riiight.  Sure.  That must be what it is.

  Stagnation of legislation - going nowhere instead of forward.

Hmmm...  Between FFCRA, CARES and Infrastructure, we've spent nearly $5 trillion in the last 20 months.   I'm curious to know exactly how much money we need to borrow from our grandkids before we're "going forward".  

  Hatred of those who don' t "follow their fold" almost to the extent of civil war.

That's just not the case.  I realize that's probably what you see in the media, but reality and the media parted ways a long time ago.  Surely you understand that they make more money if they can convince everybody the world is coming to an end.

  Gun violence only a third world banana republic could match. 

Do you realize that 60% of firearm deaths in America are suicides?  That doesn't count the "suicide by cop" cases where people draw on police officers knowing they'll be killed.

Do you realize we have the same amount of violent crime as the United Kingdom, while they have 1/5 our population?

Leading the world in fifty million covid cases and 800,000 deaths, and why?

There are 13 European countries with higher per capita cases than we have and 11 with higher fatality rates than we have...despite the fact we have tens of millions of anti-vax morons determined to die of Covid.

  Do you want more?

Depends.  Do you have any that you can actually back up with data?  Then yeah.  

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.4  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @7.2.3    one month ago
So the millions that attempt to immigrate here every year are all coming on rescue missions.   Riiight.  Sure.  That must be what it is.

Wasn't it an American who said there was a sucker born every minute?

Hmmm...  Between FFCRA, CARES and Infrastructure, we've spent nearly $5 trillion in the last 20 months.   I'm curious to know exactly how much money we need to borrow from our grandkids before we're "going forward".  

What has been spent and what NEEDS to be spent to prevent disasters are two different things

That's just not the case.  I realize that's probably what you see in the media, but reality and the media parted ways a long time ago.  Surely you understand that they make more money if they can convince everybody the world is coming to an end.

Yeah, I guess the stories about restaurants not serving people if they don't like their politics, refusing to provide services to people if they don't like their gender identity, neighbours not talking to their neigbours, family get-togethers where people are afraid to discuss politics in order to keep the peace, the reason there had to be a BLM movement, Asians being harassed and attacked, increase in antisemitism, etc are all just conspiracy theories.

Do you realize that 60% of firearm deaths in America are suicides?  That doesn't count the "suicide by cop" cases where people draw on police officers knowing they'll be killed. Do you realize we have the same amount of violent crime as the United Kingdom, while they have 1/5 our population?

But I thought America was supposed to be "exceptional".  So many guns in so many hands, so many deeming guns to be a necessity for self-protection, so many mass murders, and gun violence carried out every single day and you make excuses and comparisons?

There are 13 European countries with higher per capita cases than we have and 11 with higher fatality rates than we have...despite the fact we have tens of millions of anti-vax morons determined to die of Covid.

As I said above, I thought America was supposed to be exceptional. Does it not have the best and most advanced medical system in the world, with leadership that was the smartest, most concerned about the health and safety of its citizens, devoted to their well being, not concerned that they "will panic" if told the truth.  The numbers I quoted are still the highest for any nation in the world, and there are also many nations that have been a lot smarter about containing the virus.  

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
7.2.5  Ronin2  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.4    one month ago

Well we all can't be China. Where if you show any dissent they either send you to a reeducation camp; or simply make you disappear forever.  

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
7.2.6  Sean Treacy  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.4    one month ago
ess the stories about restaurants not serving people if they don't like their politics,

Better than restaurants not serving people because they are black.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
7.2.7  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.4    one month ago
What has been spent and what NEEDS to be spent to prevent disasters are two different things

You didn't answer my question.  How much?  And in what way does handing out another $2.5 trillion in free money "prevent disaster"?  

Yeah, I guess the stories about restaurants not serving people if they don't like their politics, refusing to provide services to people if they don't like their gender identity, neighbours not talking to their neigbours, family get-togethers where people are afraid to discuss politics in order to keep the peace, the reason there had to be a BLM movement, Asians being harassed and attacked, increase in antisemitism, etc are all just conspiracy theories.

So all that anecdotal shit I read on the internet about China...I should definitely presume everybody is like that?  No?  Or are we imagining China is the only place that gets misrepresented?  C'mon.

Y'know how people say things about China that are simply not accurate, but they read a few bullshit articles on the internet about it so that makes them an expert?  And you know how you interact with those people and they stay committed to those ideas, despite the fact you lived there for decades?  And you know how you think "wow...what an idiot"?   (You've probably got a list in mind, and I probably know a couple names on it.) 

Dude....don't be that guy.

Given the number of times you've posted something defending China, I feel relatively certain you are familiar with the concept of clickbait.

Nobody wants to buy advertising for stories about regular neighborhoods like mine where everybody gets along, pays their bills, raises their kids, and where my raving angry liberal neighbor and I sit out on the patio and talk politics until the whiskey runs out or the sun comes up.  There is nothing exciting about my Muslim neighbor standing at the grill in my backyard teaching the lesbian couple down the street about what Halal is.  It's not a crisis, so nobody's interested.  It's everyday life in America.

As I said above, I thought America was supposed to be exceptional.

So exceptional that you "feel sorry" for us.  

The numbers I quoted are still the highest for any nation in the world, and there are also many nations that have been a lot smarter about containing the virus.  

A lot of countries can do things to their citizens that the US Govt cannot.  Many countries locked everything down, basically putting people on house arrest for months at a time.  You can't do that here.  Hell...we couldn't even close the border, for no other reason than "Trump wanted to". 

So yeah, we're a free country even when it's not necessarily safe.  Don't feel sorry for us about that.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.8  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @7.2.7    one month ago

The news articles I read about America are ones posted on American news sites, not Chinese ones,  The ones Americans read about China are posted on American news sites.  Get the point?

I defend Chinese Americans from non-Chinese Americans.  I don' t defend the Chinese government.  You've obviously missed the times I have been critical of it and the reasons why.  What I do is correct the misconceptions, misinformation and outright lies about China that I KNOW are false because I have lived here for more than 15 years.  For example, I really don't give a shit whether Hong Kong is democratic or Communist, but I have indicated my opinion that I think that the protesters and dissidents have wasted their time and damaged HK because a couple decades down the road nobody is going to be able to stop HK becoming part of the mainland under the total control of the CPC (the correct designation of the Communist Party of China).  I don't believe in fighting lost causes.

Because I disagree with the bullshit stories I read about China, that I KNOW FIRST HAND are bullshit that are told by people who have never even been in China for an hour I get labeled by certain NT members as a CPC shill.  I'm not a Communist, but I grew up with a couple of uncles and an aunt who were and maybe that's the reason I'm not afraid of Communism.  My wife and her extended family are not Communists, they are Buddhists who have no fear of the government and love their country, no different than I love my country and am proud to be a Canadian, a citizenship I will never part with. 

Of course there are reasons why China deserves criticism, but that criticism is coming from people who have never stepped foot in the nation and get their info second hand.  If I've been critical of the USA, at least I have travelled through and been familiar with a lot of it, probably more than a lot of American citizens, and I have done business in the USA and I have owned a golf condo in Florida, so I think I know a lot more about America and spent a lot more time with Americans that a lot of Americans who speak with no real knowledge of it. 

Yes, you enjoy a free country with all the benefits and detriments that come with it, and I live in a country where I enjoy all the freedoms I need and want, even if I can't get up on a soap box in the city square with a megaphone and criticize Xi Jinping, but why would I bother anyway?

 
 
 
shona1
Sophomore Participates
7.2.9  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.8    one month ago

Morning Buzz.. I log on to the South China Morning Post and to be honest I find them just as bad..

The propaganda they spew out about the West is laughable and just as distorted..and we are just their flavour of the month..

Probably the best source is as in your case to ask you...and vice versa...and get it from the horse's mouth...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.10  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  shona1 @7.2.9    one month ago

Yeah, well as I've said, I get my news every day from USA Today and a conglomerate of MSN news sources that includes a whole spectrum from the extreme-right wing China-bashing Washington Examiner (a favourite to post by a couple of NT members) to far left sources and everything in between, even Crooks and Liars in order to get as extreme a left wing view as the Washington Examiner is an extreme right-wing view, for balance) and I read the Canada Television Network (CTV) news every day as well.  I know that a lot of the opinion pieces on Chinese news sources are very loyal to the CPC, but the news of actual events can be just as factual (although still somewhat biased) as any American source can be.  For example, every day China reports on the nation's known covid cases that crop up, which can be zero to 100 or so.  Thankfully, there were only a few imported cases, in the city-state in which I reside, during the past year.  And you know what?  Lots of people here STILL wear masks, and more than 90% of the people are vaccinated.  

 
 
 
shona1
Sophomore Participates
7.2.11  shona1  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.10    one month ago

Yep same here . think we are running around 93% fully vaccinated and in my town it is 96%...I still use a face mask in shops and supermarkets. I check in using a QR code and have my vaccination certificate on my phone.

Omicron is taking off in NSW 3,500 today mixture of Delta and Omicron... Melbourne steady 1,500 cases for weeks with Delta.

There is talk of bringing in the booster injections early which I will be getting.

At the end of the day have done everything you can and the rest is in the lap of the Gods.

Yes I treat most news sources with contempt and sieve our the crap from the fact...and make up my own mind..

Ps... paragraphs Buzz or you will get yelled at ..

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.12  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  shona1 @7.2.11    one month ago
"Ps... paragraphs Buzz or you will get yelled at .."

LOL. Thanks for making me smile - and You're right.  I'll try to behave with shorter paragraphs from now on.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.2.13  Kavika   replied to  shona1 @7.2.9    one month ago

I read the Straits Times out of Singapore and enjoy it.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.14  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Kavika @7.2.13    one month ago

Yeah, but you've also spent time in China, which is why I respect what YOU have to say about it.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
7.2.15  Kavika   replied to  shona1 @7.2.11    one month ago

This was from today's stats. Amazing, good on ya OZ.

BIG NUMBER

89.59%. That’s the total percentage of Australia’s eligible population—people over the age of 12—who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 according to a   tracker   run by the   Sydney Morning Herald . Australia began rescinding most of its pandemic measures once the national vaccination rate crossed 80%.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.16  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @7.2.7    one month ago

You're so concerned about the deficit, here/s one of the reasons for it...

Criminals have stolen nearly $100 billion in Covid relief ...

9 hours ago · Criminals have   stolen   nearly $100 billion in Covid   relief funds,   Secret Service says Criminals have   stolen   close to $100 billion in   pandemic relief funds,   the U.S. Secret Service

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.17  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Sean Treacy @7.2.6    one month ago

Not because they were black, but as the article says 5 Nigerians in the city of Guangzhou were infected with Covid so they were quarantined for 15 days, so other Africans were considered suspect in a place unlike the USA nobody wants to even take a chance of becoming infected, and go to extremes to NOT become infected.  China is SUPER-careful about the virus and I am damn happy that they are, which is why I feel safe from it and wonder how Americans can sleep at night with the increasing proliferation of the variants. 

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
7.2.18  Jack_TX  replied to  Buzz of the Orient @7.2.16    one month ago
Criminals have   stolen   nearly $100 billion in Covid   relief funds,

Exactly my point.

What we really need is another, much larger program for them to plunder.  That will "prevent disaster".

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
7.2.19  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Jack_TX @7.2.18    one month ago

I know what the BBB program was for.  Don't let it happen, cause it's better to strangle the poor, and with your anti-voting laws you should be able to make sure Republicans will rule the roost from now on.  Just love to see the American wealth gap continue to widen and the polarization between political beliefs continue to strengthen.  I never realized that in a supposed "democracy", when a political belief, as it becomes powerful and controlling can change it into an "AUTHORITARIAN" government (even though it is dedicated to attacking other nations that just might be more successful WITH an authoritarian government).  Isn't the adage "If you can't beat them, then join them"?  Could that be what America is pursuing?  I really used to love your country, but now I'm not so sure about your nation. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Masters Principal
8  Nerm_L    one month ago

IMO that's a firm 'OH NO' otherwise known as 'oh shit'.  

The BBB bill (Biden's Bullshit Bonanza) was trying to score points with too many factions dividing the Democratic Party.  Democrats are so divided and easily offended that it's impossible to keep everyone together.  Democrats had to pack as many goodies into BBB as possible to create a stalemate of mutually assured destruction.

Manchin is providing cover for other Senate Democrats who oppose parts of BBB.  Manchin has the guts to stick his neck out while other Democrats are cowards.  The idea that there was universal support for everything in BBB is BS.  And now Democrats will be unloading on Manchin to cover the hole in their arses.  It's Manchin's fault, don't blame Democrats for the load of BBB crap.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Masters Principal
8.1  Nerm_L  replied to  Nerm_L @8    one month ago

Well, there's still the option of Democrats compromising to get Republican support.


Hahaha... Hoohoo... Hahaha...  Sometimes I crack myself up.  jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gifjrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Junior Quiet
8.2  Jack_TX  replied to  Nerm_L @8    one month ago
Manchin has the guts to stick his neck out while other Democrats are cowards. 

Agreed, but to be fair, Manchin's constituency is more conservative than most Democrats.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.2.1  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @8.2    one month ago
Agreed, but to be fair, Manchin's constituency is more conservative than most Democrats.

Yeah, that thought should have crossed the minds of Democrats. I mean, the President lost the state by a huge margin, so it couldn't have come as much of a surprise.

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Freshman Quiet
9  Right Down the Center    one month ago

Oh My, Sanders and Omar are not happy with Manchin! Omar is telling him what the people of West Virginia want, I wonder if she has ever been there. Sanders wants the vote done so the whole world will know Manchin is against it. Gee, Mr. Sanders, you think the people that follow this (especially the people in West Virginia)don't already know? Maybe Sanders should start preparing for his next presidential run and Omar should start trying to pay back her own student loan instead of pawning it off on the taxpayers.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Right Down the Center @9    one month ago

On the other hand, I think there are a lot of democrats who are thrilled that they don't have to cast a vote on it!

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Masters Participates
9.1.1  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Vic Eldred @9.1    one month ago
I think there are a lot of democrats who are thrilled that they don't have to cast a vote on it!

There is a good chance that they are voting along party lines just to avoid the harassment and threats that would come from the die hard idiots.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
9.1.2  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.1    one month ago

It's harassment or the end of a political career. The American people know what runaway inflation means.

 
 
 
Jasper2529
PhD Participates
9.1.3  Jasper2529  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @9.1.1    one month ago
There is a good chance that they are voting along party lines just to avoid the harassment and threats that would come from the die hard idiots.

I don't doubt it at all. By voting along party lines, they prove that they value their party interests over those of their constituents and our US Constitution. Shameful.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
Masters Participates
9.1.4  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Jasper2529 @9.1.3    one month ago

And the sad thing is, those that vote these grifters into office don't see that they are being played as fools.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10  Sean Treacy    one month ago

It's almost as if Biden is trying to get Manchin to join the Republican party. Maybe he's so desperate to blame someone else for his failure that he thinks having the Republicans control the Senate will help him politically. 

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
10.1  Ronin2  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    one month ago

I am shocked Manchin doesn't jump ship to the Republicans. He would be in a prime spot to run for POTUS if he wanted. He has already won approval from conservatives and Republican voters for standing against BBB.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  Ronin2 @10.1    one month ago

He represents a state Trump won by 40. His party expects him to vote like one of their socialists who get elected just by having a D after their name. 

 
 
 
cjcold
Professor Quiet
10.2  cjcold  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    one month ago

Manchin already acts like a republican why shouldn't he defect to the dark side?

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
10.2.1  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  cjcold @10.2    one month ago

that thought may have already crossed many minds , having him flip parties and control of the senate to the GOP , then those in control now can claim partisan  obstructionism at play  ( that might be the only chance they have of holding power IMHO) but im also betting , that there are those saying not to for whatever reasons .

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
10.2.2  Sean Treacy  replied to  cjcold @10.2    one month ago
anchin already acts like a republican why shouldn't he defect to the dark side

At this point, probably. There's no room for moderate, Bill Clinton style democrats in today's democratic party.  I guess he has to decide if he wants to run for reelection and which party's nomination it would be easier to win. 

 
 
 
Mark in Wyoming
Professor Silent
10.2.3  Mark in Wyoming   replied to  Sean Treacy @10.2.2    one month ago
At this point, probably. There's no room for moderate, Bill Clinton style democrats in today's democratic party. 

another choice he has is to declare as an independant and refuse to caucus with dems . pretty much would have the same effect as if he decided to flip to the GOP without having to jjoin the GOP thus keeping whatever voting base he might still have within the state .

 leiberman did it and won , problem was he allowed himself because he stayed connected with caucusing , became the pet whipping boy .

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
10.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  Sean Treacy @10    one month ago
Maybe he's so desperate to blame someone else for his failure that he thinks having the Republicans control the Senate will help him politically. 

It's part of the hate strategy introduced by Hillary... That's all they have now along with spend spend spend.... It's all they have had for over six years...

And people are noticing... 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
11  author  Vic Eldred    one month ago

FHFaE5VVQAEvK9Y?format=jpg&name=360x360FHFyS6MXsAAXx7d?format=jpg&name=small

Manchin says if they want to play it nasty, he can easily leave the democratic party!

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
11.1  Kathleen  replied to  Vic Eldred @11    one month ago

Oh my goodness! Look at her expression. She is ready to attack. jrSmiley_91_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
12  Tessylo    one month ago

Manchin is a DINO anyway so he can fuck off!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
12.1  Krishna  replied to  Tessylo @12    one month ago

Obviously AOC lives rent free in the MAGA supporters heads!

(But does that really matter....?)

 
 
 
Kathleen
Professor Principal
13  Kathleen    one month ago

Good for him, standing up for what he believes in instead of just going with the crowd. Glad he refused it. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
14  Tessylo    one month ago

Manchin is corrupt - he belongs with the republicans.  

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
14.1  Ender  replied to  Tessylo @14    one month ago

I just read the coal miners union was wanting him to vote for it.

Turns out it had the legislation for black lung funds and other things in there they needed and wanted.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
14.1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @14.1    one month ago
I just read the coal miners union was wanting him to vote for it

So when will a bill be introduced that deals with just that? 

Manchin's positions were clear from the beginning.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
14.1.2  Ender  replied to  Texan1211 @14.1.1    one month ago

And yet he has not introduced any bill...

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
14.1.3  Ronin2  replied to  Texan1211 @14.1.1    one month ago

Come now; they can't throw all that extra pork in it if they make every bill to cover a specific item like black lung funding. They have to lump everything together, all or nothing, so that the pork is hidden and cannot be gotten rid of.

"We have to pass the bill in order to see what is in the bill" as Nancy said.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
14.1.4  Texan1211  replied to  Ender @14.1.2    one month ago
And yet he has not introduced any bill...

But the fact is the bill exists that covers that. The Democrats are holding it hostage!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
14.1.5  Krishna  replied to  Ronin2 @14.1.3    one month ago
Come now; they can't throw all that extra pork in it

Pork?

That's your opinion...and of course you're entitled to it.

But if you were a W.VA coal miner (or a member of their family...or a friend) my guess is that you'd feel a lot differently about that...

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
14.1.6  Buzz of the Orient  replied to  Ender @14.1    one month ago

Yeah, I was quite amused to see that Manchin may be shooting himself in the foot...

  1. 4 hours ago ·   Coal miners   are imploring Senator Joe   Manchin   to reconsider his opposition to the Build Back Better Act, citing parts of the legislation that …

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
14.1.7  Ronin2  replied to  Krishna @14.1.5    one month ago

Really, you don't think there isn't any pork in the Democrats reduced 1.75 trillion dollar BBB?

That is like claiming it won't cause inflation to rise.

This is Washington DC. They don't do bills that just cover what they are supposed to. Just take a look at how some states are using the Covid 19 relief funds- it isn't to get better testing, hire more doctors and nurses, buy better drugs to fight against Covid, or anything else. It is going to political pet projects like helping the homeless, etc.

If Democrats really cared they would put forward a bill specifically dealing with Black Lung Disease and defy the Republicans to vote against it. Or is it against some law for Congress to write single issue bills?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
14.1.8  TᵢG  replied to  Ronin2 @14.1.7    one month ago

I doubt Congress even knows how to write a single, focused bill sans pork.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
14.1.9  author  Vic Eldred  replied to  Ronin2 @14.1.7    one month ago

Bringing up current the BBB for a vote next year may help progressives vent, it brings more hurt than help to D’s in the long-run.

qkhHS_ab?format=jpg&name=small

So what is AOC pushing for?  

I thought it was supposed to be electing democrats over Republicans. For her it's about electing progressive democrats over moderate democrats.

 
 

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