Putin to mull different options if West refuses guarantees over Ukraine

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  one month ago  •  45 comments

By:   Associated Press

Putin to mull different options if West refuses guarantees over Ukraine
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Sunday he would ponder a slew of options if the West fails to meet his push for security guarantees over Ukraine.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



The Russian president has urged the West to move quickly to meet his demands amid tensions over a troop buildup on Ukraine's border that has fueled fears of an invasion.

Putin has warned that Moscow will have to take "adequate military-technical measures" if the West continues its "aggressive" course "on the threshold of our home."

Asked to specify what Moscow's response could be, he said in comments aired by Russian state TV Sunday that "it could be diverse," adding without elaboration that "it will depend on what proposals our military experts submit to me."

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Putin says Russia doesn't want war with Ukraine


The United States and its allies have refused to offer Russia the kind of guarantee on Ukraine that Putin wants, citing NATO's principle that membership is open to any qualifying country. They agreed. however, to launch security talks with Russia next month to discuss its concerns.

Putin said the talks with the U.S. will be held in Geneva. In parallel, negotiations are also set to be held between Russia and NATO and broader discussions are expected under the aegis of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.

In remarks broadcast Sunday, Putin said that Russia submitted the demands in the hope of a constructive answer from the West.

"We didn't do it just to see it blocked ... but for the purpose of reaching a negotiated diplomatic result that would be fixed in legally binding documents," Putin said.

He reaffirmed that NATO membership for Ukraine or the deployment of alliance weapons there is a red line for Moscow that it wouldn't allow the West to cross.

"We have nowhere to retreat," he said. "They have pushed us to a line that we can't cross. They have taken it to the point where we simply must tell them; 'Stop!'"

Putin's comments came a day after the 30th anniversary of the resignation of President Mikhail Gorbachev, which concluded 74 years of Soviet history and precipitated the breakup of the USSR. The event upset the world's balance of power and sowed the seeds of the ongoing tug-of-war between Russia and Ukraine.

While Putin has repeatedly denied intentions to rebuild the USSR, he has described Russians and Ukrainians as "one people" over angry protests from Kyiv and charged that Ukraine unfairly inherited historic parts of Russia in the Soviet demise.

The Russian leader further toughened his rhetoric Thursday during his annual year-end news conference, blaming Soviet founder Vladimir Lenin for handing Russian lands to Ukraine to "create a country that had never existed before."

He has nonetheless denied an intention of launching an invasion and, in his turn, accused Ukraine of hatching plans to try to reclaim control of the territories held by Moscow-backed rebels by force. Ukraine has rejected the claim.

Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula in 2014 and shortly after threw its support behind a separatist rebellion in the country's east. Over more than seven years, the fighting has killed over 14,000 people and devastated Ukraine's industrial heartland, known as the Donbas.


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Buzz of the Orient
Professor Principal
1  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago
"While Putin has repeatedly denied intentions to rebuild the USSR, he has described Russians and Ukrainians as "one people" over angry protests from Kyiv and charged that Ukraine unfairly inherited historic parts of Russia in the Soviet demise."

Sounds like not only China speaks of having a one country policy.

It will be interesting to see just how serious his threats can be.  Surely he knows that to invade Ukraine would touch off an international war, but maybe he can threaten to withhold exports of Russian vodka, borscht and those matryoshka nesting dolls.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
2  Ed-NavDoc    one month ago

I find it interesting that Putin is demanding security guarantees/concessions from his neighbors and the West, but I have yet to see Russia offering anything themselves.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3  Sparty On    one month ago

We managed to avoid a direct war with the USSR.  

I'm not so sure we will be able to avoid one with Russia.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  Sparty On @3    one month ago

meh, as long as I keep the trumpsters, thumpers, 3pers, teabags, oath keepers, proud boys, and klan between me and the russians, I won't need to worry about the backgrounds when defending the constitution.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  devangelical @3.1    one month ago

Lol .... internet badasses are cool man!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
3.1.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Sparty On @3.1.1    one month ago

Yep.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
3.1.3  Nowhere Man  replied to  devangelical @3.1    one month ago

Baddest of the BAAAAD, a drippy keyboard on the internet

 
 
 
arkpdx
Masters Participates
3.1.4  arkpdx  replied to  devangelical @3.1    4 weeks ago

Since When have you started defending the Constitution and what the hell does that have to do with Putin's threats?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
3.1.6  Nowhere Man  replied to  arkpdx @3.1.4    4 weeks ago
Since When have you started defending the Constitution

He isn't, he's just using it as a bass-ackwards way of deathwishing conservatives without getting his pee-pee smacked....

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
3.1.7  Gazoo  replied to  devangelical @3.1    4 weeks ago

Lmfao! That is one of the dumbest posts i have ever read. Thanks for the laugh. Carry on with your,,,,little fantasy lol.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4  Vic Eldred    one month ago

Maybe as many as 80,000 Russian troops remain. Can anybody relax yet?

My guess is that Putin is trying to tell us how reasonable he can be before those talks next week in Geneva. The big question is what can the west do to deter Putin?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
4.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    one month ago
My guess is that Putin is trying to tell us how reasonable he can be before those talks next week in Geneva.

Wow, a Putin apologist?

jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
4.1.1  Ronin2  replied to  Ozzwald @4.1    one month ago
My guess is that Putin is trying to tell us how reasonable he can be before those talks next week in Geneva.
Wow, a Putin apologist?

You got Vic is a Putin apologist over that? He is accurately pointing out that Putin is doing a political ploy by shifting a few troops off the border to show he is "reasonable" and "willing to negotiate in good faith"; while maintaining a large enough force to still swallow Ukraine whole before a key meeting with the West.

The big question is what can the west do to deter Putin?

How did you miss this portion of Vic's post? Putin doesn't care how much his people suffer through sanctions- he will still have enough resources to keep his military happy; and key supporters. Expelling Russian diplomats doesn't work. Biden already caved on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline by removing sanctions on it. Let Ukraine join NATO and Russia invades. Neither we, nor NATO, have the resources in the area to stop them. Rush US and NATO troops in; same thing happens, but then you have WWIII.

Meanwhile China is watching everything closely. Chances are they will wait until Russia acts on Ukraine; then with the US/NATO attention and resources diverted- take Taiwan. 

Funny how both Russia and China waited for Biden to be in office to pull this shit. 

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
4.1.2  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Ozzwald @4.1    one month ago

Considering that Putin and Trump are butt buddies, it makes total sense.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
4.1.3  Ozzwald  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.2    one month ago

Considering that Putin and Trump are butt buddies, it makes total sense.

That's what I was thinking.  Putin also seems to believe he is negotiating with Trump.  Just like kim jong-un, he makes a lot of demands that he expects the US to agree to, but offers nothing in return.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.4  Sparty On  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.2    one month ago

Nah, Putin is pegging Biden right now by getting his approval for the pipeline to Germany.

I mean really .... what could go wrong there?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
Masters Quiet
4.1.5  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.4    4 weeks ago

I mean really .... what could go wrong there“. Putin could knock Biden up ? Cause as I recall, Trump was required to wear a padded chin strap when meating, with the one who Putin his mouth, and office. How do so many forget All the Damn LIES Trump told US All about Russia and Putin ??? No contact with Russia , unless you talk to Trumps son who claimed they were Trumps backers financially, or the LIE about the Trump Tower Moscowvdeal, or say the Trump Tower “Adoption Meeting” where Jr admitted he was there for Hillary dirt, and why the heck are Manafirt, Jr., and son in law Jared at a meeting  about adoption of Russian orphans-please or, Trump LYING about Russia’s role in 2016 and then in Helsinki stating to the ENTITE WORLD  Trump believed Putin over His OWN INTEKJIGENCE AGENCIES?????or how he wanted to drop sanctions  on Russia when the House and Senate wanted More sanctions , or why a year went by before Congress had to force Trump to act on said sanctions,or the obvious fact that Putin wanted the P’d upon president elected over Hillary  or Joe, but the worst to me was how Trump Never uttered negative things about Putin, an X Kgb who played Trump like a skin flute

 
 
 
arkpdx
Masters Participates
4.1.6  arkpdx  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.1    4 weeks ago
Funny how both Russia and China waited for Biden to be in office to pull this shit. 

Exactly! Both the Chinese and Russians new Trump would have acted swiftly and decisively to any aggressions and know the Brandon would just poop his pants and cower in the corner. 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.7  Sparty On  replied to  igknorantzrulz @4.1.5    4 weeks ago

It's pretty cute how hypocritical and biased that comment really is .....

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Senior Principal
4.1.8  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Sparty On @4.1.7    4 weeks ago

That's what I love about the ignore feature here. Don't have to read incoherent bullshit from some of our fellow members.

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
4.1.9  Ronin2  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @4.1.2    4 weeks ago

Prove it. Name one thing that Trump did in support of Russia? Outside of words it was nothing.

Meanwhile here are the actions that Trump took that prove he was no puppet of Russia.

1) Put US troops into Syria. They are still there occupying a Syrian oil field. Since Biden has taken charge US air strikes are down across the globe by 54%; and that includes in Syria. Why is that when the Biden administration has stated they are supporting Syrian coalition forces against ISIS/ISIL? Seems Biden really doesn't have a Syrian policy after all.  

2) Despite what you heard from Democrats and their sycophants in the MSM; the Trump administration increased sanctions on Russia.

3) Trump's sanctions against the Nord stream 2 pipeline had construction stopped. Biden ended it w/o getting anything in return. Who is really Putin's puppet?

4) Trump authorized lethal aid to Ukraine. Unlike Obama that only offered non lethal aid to Ukraine.  

So who is really Putin's bitch? It is looking more and more like Brandon.

 
 
 
arkpdx
Masters Participates
4.1.10  arkpdx  replied to  Ronin2 @4.1.9    4 weeks ago
Prove it. Name one thing that Trump did in support of Russia?

You didn't really expect an answer did you?

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
4.2  Krishna  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    4 weeks ago
My guess is that Putin is trying to tell us how reasonable he can be before those talks next week in Geneva. The big question is what can the west do to deter Putin?

Don't know for sure but IMO its important to understand Putin's motives (which I do not claim to know).However I believe that what scares Putin is the prospect of the Ukraine joining NATO.

Normally their joining NATO would seem to put them at an advantage-- as an attack on one member is too be seen as an attack on all.

However, ironically, in this case it would be better for Ukraine not to join NATO!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.2.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  Krishna @4.2    4 weeks ago
However, ironically, in this case it would be better for Ukraine not to join NATO!

It may be better for NATO if Ukraine didn't join. That would put NATO to the ultimate test....wouldn't it?

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.2  Nowhere Man  replied to  Vic Eldred @4.2.1    4 weeks ago
That would put NATO to the ultimate test....wouldn't it?

Yes it would, I've always held that they should have fully admitted the Ukraine when they first asked like they did with the rest of the Soviet puppet states, the US voted for it cause it was an opportunity that only appears once in a 100 years but the rest of NATO voted against it... 

They only got prospect status cause we insisted on it... Russia left Ukraine alone until we pulled most of our striking forces out of Europe for the the middle east, then when we got involved in Syria they struck... Europe wanted no part of it and we were out of position... Besides, Obama could care less....

We will be paying for Nato's lack of vision for the next 100 years...

Historically, Europe has a long reputation of making the wrong decisions at the wrong time and people pay for it with blood.....

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  Nowhere Man @4.2.2    4 weeks ago
I've always held that they should have fully admitted the Ukraine when they first asked

I agree.

NATO, as an organization the way it stands right now, is an anachronism

They have the European Union over there now, let them take care of themselves.   All we are to most of those countries is a sugar daddy.   They have no interest in what the US wants much of the time.   Ukraine is just one more example of that.   The Russian pipeline to Germany is another.

Dissolve NATO .... give them the international self governance they seem to so crave so badly

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
4.2.4  Nowhere Man  replied to  Sparty On @4.2.3    4 weeks ago

Germany's pissed at us cause we pulled most of our armor out of their country for the middle east... and they are unwilling to increase their army...

To me that encapsulates the differences between europe and us... I would say let Russia dominate them, our only real friends over there are England and the dutch... maybe the Belgians as well as the former soviet satellites. The mainland European nations don't like us at all...

I say let then stew in their own juices for a while and see if they like that better..

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.2.5  Sparty On  replied to  Nowhere Man @4.2.4    4 weeks ago

Totally agree.  

Time for sugar daddy to pack up his marbles and put out the fires at home.

Trump was the first President to put NATO in their rightful place and require that they pay their agreed upon share.  

I'm sure Biden will erase all that progress if he hasn't already

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
4.3  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Vic Eldred @4    4 weeks ago

Personally, Putin saying he withdrew those 10,000 troops is a deliberate misnomer. I think they were just relocated elsewhere, but bet your bottom dollar they can get back in a hurry. This is all a smoke and mirrors illusion trick by Putin 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.3.1  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @4.3    4 weeks ago

Yup, we come from the better dead than red era Doc and Russia, while not red on the outside, is still all red on the inside as long as Putin is in charge.

People who didn't grow up during the cold war, didn't have fathers, brothers and uncles who served in WW-2 and Korea, will rarely understand such a concept.

Better dead than red .... high speed, low drag!

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
5  Ed-NavDoc    one month ago

Maybe Putin is telling Biden, "I'll have more flexibility after the election." That election being our mid term 2022 or general election in 2024...

Sorry, that just popped into my head.

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
5.1  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5    one month ago
Putin is telling Biden, "I'll have more flexibility after the election." That election being our mid term 2022

I suppose that's when he hopes more Putin loving right wing conservative Republicans get elected who will likely prevent any real consequence from Putin continuing to aggressively act against our allies.

 
 
 
Nowhere Man
Junior Expert
5.1.1  Nowhere Man  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @5.1    one month ago
I suppose that's when he hopes more Putin loving right wing conservative Republicans get elected who will likely prevent any real consequence from Putin continuing to aggressively act against our allies.

Really? Maybe Biden will send the Ukraine more non-lethal supplies like Obama did? but then what will he do about all those LETHAL weapons that Trump sent the Ukranians? take them back?

I mean he has already rescinded the US policy of blanket military support for the Ukraine that Trump established, also the announcement to NATO by Trump that we considered the Ukraine a full member of NATO and would act accordingly... (that might have had something to do with Putin backing off on the aggressive attitudes)

What else could Biden do to assure Putin that we will step in and as aggressively as possible, hold the door open for him if he decides to take the country...

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2  Sparty On  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5    one month ago

Lol ..... Bazinga!

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
5.3  Krishna  replied to  Ed-NavDoc @5    4 weeks ago
Maybe Putin is telling Biden

Putin making everything about American politics...when it isn't?

Wow-- if that's the case maybe we should invite Putin to join NT-- he's fit right in!

(Hint: Every issue in the world is not based on struggles between U.S. Democrats and Republicans...seriously! Although its probably futile to point that out here... jrSmiley_5_smiley_image.png )

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
6  evilgenius    one month ago

Invading would threaten those European gas contracts that Russia seriously needs. Putin is losing popular support on domestic issues as the economy and covid rates are bad. He's spending way more on on the military while the country is crying for more health care help. No one there is buying it's the big bad Americans' fault anymore. I'm not sure how much longer this hardline tactic will work.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.1  Ender  replied to  evilgenius @6    one month ago

Sounds like he is doing what led to the USSR having to dissolve to begin with.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.1.1  Krishna  replied to  Ender @6.1    4 weeks ago
Sounds like he is doing what led to the USSR having to dissolve to begin wit

Afghanistan?

 
 
 
Ronin2
PhD Quiet
6.2  Ronin2  replied to  evilgenius @6    one month ago

The west has been calling Putin's demise since he assumed control. He is still there. 

So long as he keeps the military happy, and his political opponents weak; he will maintain control.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
6.3  Kavika   replied to  evilgenius @6    one month ago

Oil and natural gas are the bedrock of the Russian economy and disrupting those could cause Russia some serious problems. 

Oil and gas are responsible for more than 60% of Russia's exports and provide more than 30% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP).

Germany comments regarding the Nord 2 line if Russia invades Ukraine was telling.

 
 
 
Paula Bartholomew
Professor Guide
6.3.1  Paula Bartholomew  replied to  Kavika @6.3    one month ago

Putin could care less that his people will suffer.  He won't stave or freeze and probably has enough vodka stockpiled to last years.

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
6.3.2  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.1    4 weeks ago

Yeah, I heard the beet harvest was pretty good too so he probably has plenty of borscht ingredients stocked up as well!

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
6.3.3  evilgenius  replied to  Paula Bartholomew @6.3.1    4 weeks ago
Putin could care less that his people will suffer.

There is only so much a large body of people will take before they force change. There are major political protests going on in major cities. Yes they are throwing protesters in jail, but it hasn't put much of a dent in the movement.

 
 
 
Krishna
Professor Principal
6.4  Krishna  replied to  evilgenius @6    4 weeks ago
I'm not sure how much longer this hardline tactic will work.

I think you might be right about that. In fact i'd say there's even a good chance that Putin may strt withdrawing some troops soon (Bot of course only after making some excuse...so it doesn't seem like he's doing..what he's doing!))

 
 
 
Ed-NavDoc
Professor Quiet
6.4.1  Ed-NavDoc  replied to  Krishna @6.4    4 weeks ago

IMO Putin is simply trying to lure Ukraine and the West into a false sense of security by relocating, not withdrawing, said troops. As I stated above, it's all smoke and mirrors illusion by Putin.

 
 

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