Reparations aren’t about justice. They’re an act of revenge

  

Category:  Op/Ed

Via:  s  •  3 weeks ago  •  229 comments

By:   Douglas Murray

Reparations aren’t about justice. They’re an act of revenge
e are talking of a group of people who look like a group of people who did a wrong in the past making a vast wealth transfer to another group of people who look like a group of people to whom a wrong was done (black Americans).

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



Ten years ago, the idea of “reparations” sat on the political fringes in America. The question of whether or not compensation should once have been paid to former slaves had died out.  Not least because by the start of the 21 st  century, no one in America had actually suffered from slavery. The country was a century and a half away from the bloody civil war it had fought over the issue.

But there’s a tendency in our own age which does not allow wounds to mend or heal. Indeed, there is a movement that locates long-healed wounds in order to rip them open again. And then complain about the hurt caused to themselves.

In 2014, the writer Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote an essay in The Atlantic making “ The Case for Reparations .” In recent times, few articles have had more impact. The issue of reparations began to be picked up by the radical left and then made its way to the political center. By the time of the Democratic primaries in 2020 all of the party’s candidates were willing to talk about the issue. Some, including Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren, expressed support for some form of reparations. Such candidates pointed to the disparity between average household wealth in white families and black families in America.

Once the Democrats were in power, one of the first things they did in Congress was apply pressure on President Biden to   set up a commission to study reparations   for black Americans both for slavery and for “systemic racism” — a guilty verdict that was already in.

It certainly is true that there are disparities of wealth between black and white Americans. But there are disparities between black and white Americans and Asian-Americans as well. In America in the 2020s Asian-Americans significantly outperform every other racial group in their earnings.  They   earn more on average   than white Americans, who in turn earn more than Hispanic-Americans, who in turn earn more than black Americans.

All talk of reparations must confront this statistic. If the cause of black economic underperformance in America in the 2020s is systemic racism, why do other groups outperform them? Why do groups who have arrived more recently outperform them? And why is the “systemic racism” of America not holding down Asian-Americans if it is so all-pervasive?

In recent years, the claim of systemic racism has become an all-encompassing explanation for everything the radical left wants done. This movement looks at complex problems and presents a simple answer: racism because of white supremacy.

As I researched these problems for   my latest book , I did wonder whether anyone claiming to speak about reparations had done any real thinking on it.

For instance, today in America, we are no longer talking about a group of people who did a wrong paying compensation to people to whom a wrong was done. We are talking of a group of people who look like a group of people who did a wrong in the past making a vast wealth transfer to another group of people who look like a group of people to whom a wrong was done (black Americans).

And it is not just the unjustness of punishing people for wrongs done long before their time, but the madness that comes from even thinking that such a task is performable.

The transatlantic slave trade, like the far larger Arab slave trade of the same period, was only made possible because black Africans kidnapped and sold their brothers and sisters into slavery. We know this from the historical record and from the memoirs of those to whom this was done, like the remarkable   18 th  century slave Olaudah Equiano . Some people at the time, including Voltaire, noted that the only thing worse than the treatment of some Africans by some Europeans was the behavior of some Africans to their fellow Africans.

So how do we find out who is responsible for all of this? How are we to find out who among the black community in America is descended from American slaves and who is descended from African slavers? What are we to do about people who have some of each inheritance in their family? Anyone who thinks that voter ID is intrusive will be amazed at how much intrusion would be required to perform this act of mass DNA gathering.

Some hope to arrive at equality by giving “non-Western” people a freer pass and carrying out acts of vengeance on “Western” people. Arlington County’s attorney Parisa Dehghani-Taft recently said that she   plans to find ways to reduce the incarceration of black people   by explicitly taking race into account in prosecutorial decision making. The former chief prosecutor has condemned this, saying that it “makes a mockery of blind justice and corrodes confidence in the criminal justice system.” Which indeed it does. 

Others also see this as a route to justice. In 2020, San Francisco passed the   CAREN Act , which made it a hate crime to make a “racially motivated” 911 call against a black person “without reasonable suspicion of a crime.” The name comes from the derogatory term “Karen,” which in recent years has come to mean a white woman with entitled energy. The act makes it a potential crime to call the cops on a person who is black and makes white people doing so have to wonder whether it will be they who the police take in for questioning. It is also noteworthy, in passing, that in the current era, racial slurs are actually cool and can be written into law so long as the people they demean are white women.

Both of these actions, in Arlington and San Francisco, are explicit departures from the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of “equal protection of the laws.” Both take the form of explicitly unequal treatment on the basis of race. Taking this further would certainly be one form of revenge, if not reparation. But a grander, more common form of revenge is what is now taking place and sweeping across the culture.

I come back to Coates’ essay that kicked off this debate a decade ago. In his view, there was a precedent for American reparations in the money paid to Israel after the Holocaust by Germany. But this was a payment made immediately after a genocide, not two centuries after a barbaric trade.

The people who push for reparations in America today claim to be doing so in the name of racial harmony. In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything more likely to put a bomb under race relations in this country. It has become just another tool of vengeance in the fevered anti-Western, anti-American spirit of our age.


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Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1  seeder  Sean Treacy    3 weeks ago

"The people who push for reparations in America today claim to be doing so in the name of racial harmony. In fact, it’s hard to imagine anything more likely to put a bomb under race relations in this country. It has become just another tool of vengeance in the fevered anti-Western, anti-American spirit of our age."

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.1  Texan1211  replied to  Sean Treacy @1    3 weeks ago

The idea of reparations is an idea whose time has passed.

Let's move on to other, more productive issues.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2  charger 383    3 weeks ago

They have no idea how angry this would make the group they want to take from

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1  JBB  replied to  charger 383 @2    3 weeks ago

Isn't that group already angry? 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.1.1  charger 383  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago

they will be a lot more angry and many more will join then

 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago
Isn't that group already angry? 

Shouldn't all be concerned about a massive wealth transfer paid for by taxpaying Americans who had zip to do with slavery?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago
Isn't that group already angry? 

With the Biden economy doing so swell, as I have seen you claim countless times, the money could be better spent on more important things which will affect many more people, right?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.4  JBB  replied to  charger 383 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

I'll take that as a yes...

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.5  CB   replied to  charger 383 @2.1.1    3 weeks ago

Wasn't anger present during all those centuries of poor choices made that set-back "Africans" here in the United States in the first place? So I ask, when are some whites NOT angry with today's blacks?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.1.6  charger 383  replied to  JBB @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

yes, that would be a yes

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1.4    3 weeks ago

With the Biden economy doing so fantastically well, as you claim, aren't reparations unnecessary and a waste of taxpayer money?

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.8  Greg Jones  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago

"Isn't that group already angry?"

It's your side that's perennially angry and unhappy

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.9  Greg Jones  replied to  CB @2.1.5    3 weeks ago
"So I ask, when are some whites NOT angry with today's blacks?"

I don't give blacks much thought, in spite of all the disinformation from the left.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.1.10  Sparty On  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.8    3 weeks ago

Bazinga!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.1.11  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @2.1    3 weeks ago
Isn't that group already angry? 

I think they are just upset that they have to go directly to their cars and drive out of the area after a Yankees game. It's no way to live.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.12  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.1.11    3 weeks ago

Nobody drives to Yankee Field. They take the subway or an Uber. Have you ever been there?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    3 weeks ago
Nobody drives to Yankee Field.

Maybe they drive to Yankee Stadium, which does have info on parking on their website.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.1.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.1.12    3 weeks ago
Nobody drives to Yankee Field

I thought that it was called Yankee Stadium.  I took an Uber but I understand that drivers use SpotHero for parking spots.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.1.15  CB   replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.9    3 weeks ago

Yeah, there you go again, Greg!

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.1.16  bugsy  replied to  Texan1211 @2.1.3    3 weeks ago

Maybe since the economy is going so great according to JBB, the FBI and CIA can continue their investigation into those 50 plus clandestine Russian agents that apparently existed only in his mind starting in 2014,

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  charger 383 @2    3 weeks ago
how angry this would make the group they want to take from

The don't have to take the cost of reparation's from any group.  We just need to borrow more like for most new entitlements.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.1  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2    3 weeks ago

"Entitlements" are a curious thing, aren't they? What are international countries "entitled" to and are freely supplied (even tens and hundreds of billions right now in 'handouts') and how often do they fill U.S. offers with 'returns'?  But then, you can't have an underclass, or several underclasses, if you don't keep people 'in line' and down-oh, and fighting over the scraps that fall off the table!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.2  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
What are international countries "entitled" to

I don't think any countries have US entitlements from the way I'm using the term.  I'm a federal worker and use some terms from a budgetary perspective.  In that sense, entitlements are federal expenditures that are legally mandatory and not subject to political debate like 'discretionary' spending is. Social Security and Medicare are examples of entitlements while education and foreign aid are examples of discretionary programs. About two thirds of federal spending is for entitlements, entitlement programs continue to grow faster than GDP and continue to consume a larger portion of the federal budget.

But then, you can't have an underclass, or several underclasses,if you don'tkeep people 'in line' and down-oh, and fighting over the craps that fall off the table!

Unless all people receive the same income, wont you always have an "underclass"?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.3  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2    3 weeks ago

We could just print more money.    Make that can we are kicking down the road even bigger.     Future generations will love us for it ......

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.4  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.2    3 weeks ago

Yeah, bullshit. Calling it differently, does not change the effect. The fact is, there are some conservatives who call federal workers "entitled" and want shut down those big old gov'mint "discretionary funds" too. Certainly, federal workers should work for scale wages and not be a protected class.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.5  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.2.3    3 weeks ago
Future generations will love us for it ....

Future generations might just thank 'us' for ending the repeating cycles of rhetorical lip service about why the EXCEPTIONAL country in the world does not have the intellectual prowess to end its long-standing 'disability' of repressions and not connecting with its own citizens in spirit and in truth!

"Re-upping" bogus lies, endless recriminations, and attempting to hide the legacy of repeat wrongs done to Africans, slaves, and people of color, as these "roots,"are exposed won't stop the deep-seated grumblings and rumblings stuck in the bowels of our country.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.6  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.2.1    3 weeks ago

Yeah I know.    

Makes one wonder why so many folks of colors are risking life and limb to get here.    Those folks must all be really dumb.    Either dumb or complete masochists. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.7  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.2.4    3 weeks ago

He JUST explained what an entitlement is. Your propensity for clouding the issue at hand by derailing the conversation over the definition of a word is duly noted.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.8  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

Your understanding of fundamental  economics appears to be sophomoric at best.    I suggest a basic Macro and Micro Economic class before you try to wade into big boy economics discussions 

Pay attention nawh  ......

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.6    3 weeks ago
Makes one wonder why so many folks of colors are risking life and limb to get here.

They are entrepreneurial, more so than many US natives and know a better deal when they see one.  

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Sparty On @2.2.3    3 weeks ago
We could just print more money.

Absolutely, the Fed and the Treasury can help reduce our 'real debt' by inflation so what we pay back isn't worth as much as when we borrowed/printed it.  

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.11  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.4    3 weeks ago
Yeah, bullshit.

No bullshit.  An entitlement refers to a guarantee of access to benefits based on legislation. 

Calling it differently, does not change the effect.

Exactly, changing the term without changing the legislation doesn't change the effect.

Certainly, federal workers should work for scale wages and not be a protected class.

Of course and most do.  I work under the General Schedule (GS) Pay Scale.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.2.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

What does that have to do with slavery reparations?  

Nothing. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.2.14  Greg Jones  replied to  CB @2.2.5    3 weeks ago

Are you saying blacks as a class are victims of some sort

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @2.2.13    3 weeks ago

What does that have to do with slavery reparations?  

It was a reply to 2.2.4.  Reading the thread is helpful.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.16  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.2.6    3 weeks ago

Makes CONSERVATIVES wonder, I am sure. Because I have news for you, immigrants ain't struggling to enter our country just to lock arms with a conservative worldview! Don't get it twisted! We are a great country, and that is due to all of us—not credit to any one group. Conservatives, yes this is about you—it is NOT all about you, nevertheless!

Conservatives are hard at work trying to TAKEOVER and DECLARE full control over a great nation. Y'all shall not succeed.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.17  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.2.8    3 weeks ago

Just redistribute "your" wealth. It should satisfy all claims against the U.S.A.!  You can hold on to your ass, however.  /s

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.18  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.9    3 weeks ago

Compliments for the 'outsider'?  Anything that gets you 'mileage,' but does not benefit the 'guy and gal' across the street, eh?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.19  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.12    3 weeks ago

Big ole bureaucracy and them thar' high paying union jobs, hmph!  GSA pay is set by gov'mint officials and not market competition! Conservatives want to 'shut you down.'

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.20  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.19    3 weeks ago
Big ole bureaucracy and them thar' high paying union jobs, hmph! 

What accent or dialect are you trying to aim for?  The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE)

GSA pay is set by gov'mint officials and not market competition!

By officials, did you mean Congress?

Conservatives want to 'shutyoudown.'

Dems in 1978 with the Civil Service Reform Act prohibited federal unions from striking.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.18    3 weeks ago
Compliments for the 'outsider'? 

Why the question?

Anything that gets you 'mileage,'

What mileage are you imagining?

but does not benefit the 'guy and gal' across the street, eh?

My neighbors across the street retired from Wall Street many years ago and volunteer at Ecumenical Community Helping Others (ECHO), an all volunteer charity that provides food, clothes, household items and financial help to families in need. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.22  CB   replied to  Greg Jones @2.2.14    3 weeks ago

? Please elaborate.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.23  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.20    3 weeks ago

Conservatives see many "overpaid bureaucrats"  as likely something that should be outsourced to the free market. I though you knew? Oh, you didn't! Uh-uh.

What will some conservatives do when their leaders get around to writing their work descriptions away?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.24  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.23    3 weeks ago
Conservatives see many "overpaid bureaucrats"

Overpaid?  I'm so underpaid that that this is the only entertainment that I can afford.  

as likely something that should be outsourced to the free market.

I've also been a government contractor, but the job security is better as a Fed.

What will some conservatives do when their own get around to writing those work descriptions away?

My boss is fairly conservative, I like my job description and my bonuses that he helps award.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.25  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.21    3 weeks ago

missingThePoint.gif

Some conservatives should beware of this happening again!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.26  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.25    3 weeks ago
Drinker' don't let this happen again.

I'll try harder, I certainly missed your point in 2.2.18.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.27  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.2.16    3 weeks ago
Makes CONSERVATIVES wonder, I am sure.

Don’t talk about things you couldn’t begin to understand.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.28  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.2.17    3 weeks ago

Nope and whoever comes for it better pack a lunch.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.29  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.2.24    3 weeks ago

They will get around to you two, too!  Your group wants you both to go out into the competitive job market and. . . well, compete!!!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.30  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.2.25    3 weeks ago

There was an actual point made by some liberal?

Will small wonders never cease!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.31  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.2.27    3 weeks ago

I have no idea if you understand conservatism's role in this country, because if you do comprehend its breath, width, and height - you should be held accountable for all the misery you support along with those others in your 'party.'

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.2.32  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.2.29    3 weeks ago
They will get around to you two, too! 

Two, too, to!

Your group

I don’t have a group

wants you both to go out into the competitive job market and. . . well, compete!!!

I don’t care what they want, I like the security of a job for life while serving you.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.2.33  Sparty On  replied to  CB @2.2.31    3 weeks ago

lol ..... Liberals  will be held accountable this summer and fall.

Stock up on butt cream.    You’re gonna need it.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.34  CB   replied to  Sparty On @2.2.33    3 weeks ago

And so the struggle continues: What's new? Nothing apparently.  You're gloating too soon, anyway. As your 'champion' sitting cooling in 'time-out.' And I am going to ponder if I want you discussing my butt in public and may get back with you.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.2.35  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @2.2.1    3 weeks ago
"Entitlements" are a curious thing, aren't they?

Indeed.

What are international countries "entitled" to and are freely supplied (even tens and hundreds of billions right now in 'handouts') and how often do they fill U.S. offers with 'returns'?

Fantastic question.  I wonder the same thing.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.2.36  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @2.2.5    3 weeks ago
Future generations might just thank 'us' for ending the repeating cycles

They won't. 

Because the important 'repeating cycles' are economic, and we're not going to touch those.  We're not even going to talk about how we might go about it.   We're going to do a great deal of talking about our feelings, telling everybody we're "on the right side of history" or some other idiotic gobshite cliche'.

But we're not even going to discuss anything that might lead to tangible improvement, so future generations will have nothng to thank us for.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.37  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.36    3 weeks ago
We're going to do a great deal of talking about our feelings

Who are you kidding? Economics is a powerful tool for governance and for upward mobility. At the end of the day, life is about more than that. Life encompasses "life," "liberty," and "pursuits, plural, of happiness" too!  And most of you know this already, but are blinded by a desire to cut off people because of your biases, perceptions, and judgements.

And if you were richer than your wildest dreams, it is possible you could be a most miserable human being.

Remember: Howard Hughes, the hermit? Or, Leona Helmsley "only little people pay taxes" and who indicated in 2003 that her billions should go to poor people and dogs . A year later, the sources said, she dropped poor people from the list .

"Teach the children well." -Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.2.38  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @2.2.37    3 weeks ago
Who are you kidding?

Sadly....nobody.  Dead serious.

Economics is a powerful tool for governance and for upward mobility.  At the end of the day, life is about more than that.

Excellent.  Well we needn't worry about reparations then.  It doesn't matter that black people are still disproportionately poor and increasing racial inequality must be a non-issue after all.

Life encompasses "life," "liberty," and "pursuits, plural, of happiness" too!

Riiight.  Well you can pursue a whole lot more happiness when your bills are paid and you get a month off.

And most of you know this already, but are blinded by a desire to cut off people because of your biases, perceptions, and judgements.

You calling other people "blinded" by "biases, perceptions and judgments" is very much the pot calling the kettle.... well... you get the idea.

Also, you forgot apathy.   Never underestimate the ability of American men to stop giving a shit about things they won't be allowed to change.

"Teach the children well." -Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

We don't.  That's a huge part of the problem.  We want to spend all our time on "social and emotional learning" helping kids "feel better" about having almost no chance in life as opposed to spending time on math and science so they might actually have a chance.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.39  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.38    3 weeks ago
Economics is a powerful tool for governance and for upward mobility.  At the end of the day, life is about more than that.
Excellent.  Well we needn't worry about reparations then.  It doesn't matter that black people are still disproportionately poor and increasing racial inequality must be a non-issue after all.

That comes across like somebody who makes foolish talk.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.40  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.38    3 weeks ago
Never underestimate the ability of American men to stop giving a shit about things they won't be allowed to change

"American men" is that code for something? Because as far as I know, 'American men" are allowed to create, manufacture, engineer, re-engineer, and modify a great many things! You got a special class of "American men" who "stopped giving a shit" we should know of?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.41  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.2.40    3 weeks ago
"American men" is that code for something?

Do you think it is code for something?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.42  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.38    3 weeks ago
We want to spend all our time on "social and emotional learning" helping kids "feel better" about having almost no chance in life as opposed to spending time on math and science so they might actually have a chance.

Can't they do social and emotional learning (whatever that latter is), math and science, and feel better about themselves, Jack? And why the hyperbole about it be "all out time" and "almost no chance in life" bull patty? This is a conservative 'Karen song' and it's a big fat lie. Worse, it's conservatives such as yourself who are handicapping whole people groups in this country with an inability to grow, because you all are stuck in some forsaken loop!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.2.43  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.2.42    3 weeks ago
Worse, it's conservatives such as yourself who are handicapping whole people groups in this country with an inability to grow, because you all are stuck in some forsaken loop!

Wow, when did conservatives gain so much power over others?

And why did liberals allow it?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.2.44  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @2.2.39    3 weeks ago

facepalm-picard.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.2.45  Jack_TX  replied to  CB @2.2.42    3 weeks ago
Can't they do social and emotional learning (whatever that latter is), math and science, and feel better about themselves, Jack?

No.  If they learn math and science, they will achieve things and justifiably feel very good about themselves.  Or....instead of teaching them how to rise in our upwardly mobile society, we can help them "feel better" by telling them their failures are not their fault because they are victims of evil bastards who "handicap whole people groups" or some other such gobshittery.

And why the hyperbole about it be "all out time" and "almost no chance in life" bull patty?

So you want us to believe poor kids from poor schools that don't learn math have abundant opportunities in the American economy?  Are you sure?

This is a conservative 'Karen song' and it's a big fat lie. Worse, it's conservatives such as yourself who are handicapping whole people groups in this country with an inability to grow, because you all are stuck in some forsaken loop!

I'm sure you imagine I have at least some faint idea what you're talking about.  Alas.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.2.46  CB   replied to  Jack_TX @2.2.45    3 weeks ago

   24  

That comes across like somebody who makes foolish talk.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @2    3 weeks ago

What group is that? 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.3.1  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @2.3    3 weeks ago

those they want to pay for this silliness

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.3.2  JBB  replied to  charger 383 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

There is zero chances of race reparations passing Congress or even a proposal on the table. Please also note this is a rightwing article written by a rightwing author intended for a rightwing audience. Reparations are a red banner which dependably triggers the "group" you speak of, but are unwilling to honestly identify!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.3  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
There is zero chance of race reparations ever passing Congress or even a proposal on the table.

Then no sense in talking about reparations at all.  All those in favor of them need to shut up!

Good!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.4  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

You obviously have a specific group in mind so who might they be? Why are you hedging? 

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.3.5  JBB  replied to  Texan1211 @2.3.3    3 weeks ago

Then take that silly complaints up with the author and the seeder because this is not a news story. How do you think you guys all wound up here all triggered about something that is not even up for debate?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.6  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @2.3.5    3 weeks ago
Then take your complaint to the author and the seeder

Oh, is that what you did?

BTW, you have been avoiding my questions for at least a week now regarding the glowing Biden economy and the need to forgive student loan debts and reparations.

Why is that?

Have you noticed how well the stock market has done this year?

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.3.7  charger 383  replied to  Dulay @2.3.4    3 weeks ago

It is obviously taxpayers, which I am a member of that group. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  charger 383 @2.3.7    3 weeks ago
taxpayers, which I am a member of that group

You must make more that most as most don't pay federal income tax.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.9  CB   replied to  charger 383 @2.3.1    3 weeks ago

Silliness. This may have been a request too far and ridiculous, if, and its a rejected if at this point, white conservatives had simply stopped after the 'silliness' of trying to turn intelligent, thinking, caring people of color into chattel. Do you have any idea what it is to be 'defeated' and 'bucked' at every juncture in each succeeding generation? No, you don't - friend Charger.  You've always enjoyed a kind of inherent confident of being in the majority here, even when issues and problems did not work out for you-it was not because society, culture, or heaven forbid the government was dead. set. against. white. advancement!

People of color as groups can only now can look 'up' from despairing here. And yet, there are whites still not ready to welcome as equals and with 'straight paths' those who they have always dwelt with all these hundreds of years.

We, all of us, can continue to do great things in this country together. Just get it understood, that this country's successes are because of it wide-ranging DIVERSITY in people, cultures, and personal drives. This country's multiplicity of races and groups is its strength-not its weakness!

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.3.10  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.3.8    3 weeks ago

Do you define "taxpayer" as only those who pay federal income tax? Because, poor and low income people often pay a very significant percentage their total incomes in other state and local fees and taxes...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.3.12  charger 383  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.3.8    3 weeks ago

Yes, that is why wasting taxpayer money pisses me off

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.13  CB   replied to  JBB @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
California moves forward with reparations effort to create ‘more equitable’ future
by Marina Pitofsky - 06/01/21

California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) on Tuesday said his state is moving forward with efforts to create “a more equitable and inclusive future for all” at the first meeting of the state’s task force to study proposals for reparations for African Americans.

Newsom last year  signed a bill approving the task force that will consider paying reparations for slavery. The statute requires a task force to make recommendations for lawmakers to address the findings by July 2023.

A major state is putting 'hand to plow' to deal with this issue. And as we know once a precedent has been established, the domino-effect is possible. In the end, courts will have to look seriously at the issues of what states are doing, and 'following' (as on the same-sex marriage law) after Congress will 'lead.'

Of course, the usual suspects -conservatives- those 'lame foot draggers' will come along banging their skulls and screaming "sacrilege' because in their make-belief "America" is supposed to be a place where people excel by keeping SOMEBODY else individually and in class groups down.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.3.14  Sparty On  replied to  JBB @2.3.10    3 weeks ago

That has nothing to do with the Fed.    

The main revenue source of the Federal government is the Federal Income tax.   Not state and local taxes.

That is to say roughly the top 50% AGI Americans.    The other 50% are on the Federal dole.

100%

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.15  Texan1211  replied to  CB @2.3.13    3 weeks ago

Giving away money hardly seems like a cure.

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
2.3.16  charger 383  replied to  JBB @2.3.10    3 weeks ago
"other state and local fees and taxes.."
I have to pay that too along with Federal, State and property taxes 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.17  Dulay  replied to  charger 383 @2.3.7    3 weeks ago
It is obviously taxpayers, which I am a member of that group. 

So are the vast majority of those that would qualify for reparations. 

So, wtf is your issue? 

I did not begrudge my tax dollars going to reparations for Japanese Americans, even though I wasn't alive when they were unjustly interned. 

Nor did I begrudge my tax dollars going to pay the claim rewarded to the Sioux [Lakota] Nation for the US stealing their land and violating our treaty. I wasn't alive when that abhorrent shit started either. That money is still accumulating interest because the Lakota refuse to accept 'payment' for stolen land. 

I will not begrudge my tax dollars going to pay reparations to the ancestors of the enslaved here in the US.

IMHO, there should also be reparations paid to the ancestors of ANY GI's who were denied the benefits of the GI bill, including the Filippino's that were drafted by the US and were denied GI benefits and pensions. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.3.10    3 weeks ago

You’re right if we are discussing state or local reparations.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
There is zero chances of race reparations passing Congress or even a proposal on the table.

I thought that you wanted to expand the discussion to state or local reparations?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.20  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @2.3.4    3 weeks ago

I think he gave you an answer.

Accept it and move on.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
2.3.21  Vic Eldred  replied to  Dulay @2.3.17    3 weeks ago
So are the vast majority of those that would qualify for reparations. 

But they don't qualify. They are not victims. Some would say they are beneficiaries of numerous government programs that already cost the taxpayers dearly.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.22  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.20    3 weeks ago
I think he gave you an answer.

I could not care less what you think Vic. 

You have no say in when or with whom I interact Vic. 

Accept THAT and move on.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
2.3.23  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.21    3 weeks ago
Some would say they are beneficiaries of numerous government programs that already cost the taxpayers dearly.

Medicaid, Snap , and EITC, the predominant government social programs , do not base qualification for the programs on race, and millions of whites collect them too. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.24  Dulay  replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.21    3 weeks ago
But they don't qualify. They are not victims.

Wow, since you've got it all figured out, Congress doesn't even need to stand up a Commission. 

Please document what you base your conclusions on so it can be discussed.

Some would say they are beneficiaries of numerous government programs that already cost the taxpayers dearly.

Some would say that your comment is obfuscation and obtuse.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
2.3.25  Texan1211  replied to  Dulay @2.3.24    3 weeks ago
Some would say that your comment is obfuscation and obtuse.

And they would be incredibly, predictably wrong.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.26  CB   replied to  charger 383 @2.3.16    3 weeks ago

Well Charger, it's called a "progressive tax" for a reason. There is a saying and it goes like this: "Don't hate the players; hate the game."  I will go one farther and say this: You got to play and strettttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttch out in the game of life-your choice to do or don't. We, people of color, were directed and led to the field of play handicapped, with one-arm strapped down, and told to take the 'crumbs' that fall for over two hundred years!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.27  CB   replied to  Dulay @2.3.17    3 weeks ago

Same old some conservative playbook: If they are not getting paid for 'damning' somebody or something, they can't accept its happening.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.28  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.3.26    3 weeks ago
told to take the 'crumbs' that fall for over two hundred years!

Two hundred years?  You need to pick up a copy of The 1619 Project or better yet, come to my town and visit the National Museum of African American History and Culture and learn about your peoples journey in our nation's history.  A mile and hours of exhibits and a great restaurant for lunch, the Sweet Home Café.  The Creoles Coast dishes are among my favorites there. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.29  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @2.3.21    3 weeks ago

Please and there are no taxpayer programs benefiting conservatives, because. .  . well. . . because. . . .? We know conservatives are hard-working machines, that never want for anything because when their crops get flooded out, when the drought hits, the famine, the dust storm, the hurricanes, the fires, the murderous rampages. . . conservatives are hearty and they just keep on ticking,. . . and ask taxpayers for less than they 'kick in.'  Is that right, Vic E.?

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.3.30  Ronin2  replied to  CB @2.3.13    3 weeks ago

Which is the reason that millions of US tax paying citizens are fleeing California.

Much like every other idea coming from California that Democrats and leftists want to spread across the US. Reparations will be fought at every turn. The only good thing is that at the rate California is losing population; soon they won't be the most politically powerful state in the US.  That will stop their bullshit dead in it's tracks.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.3.31  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.3.17    3 weeks ago
I did not begrudge my tax dollars going to reparations for Japanese Americans

Because the majority of that money went to actual interned peoples, not a dozen generation down the line moochers that have almost no proof their ancestors were brought here as slaves.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
2.3.32  bugsy  replied to  Dulay @2.3.17    3 weeks ago
IMHO, there should also be reparations paid to the ancestors of ANY GI's who were denied the benefits of the GI bill, including the Filippino's that were drafted by the US and were denied GI benefits and pens

With this  I agree. My mother in law was a guerilla fighting for the Americans in WW2, still had her ID card until she passed and never received a dime for her efforts to the US.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.33  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.3.28    3 weeks ago

You got jokes? If you've taken the tour as you suggest others do - how come you don't know about the years of terror conservative whites inflicted upon black citizens?

Here you are on 'stilts' talking down to me? Pretending not to be ashamed of the past misdeeds made to happen in this country and the lives made to perish so that you can stand over us protecting and claiming the nation's wealth as 'personal and private,' all the while telling people of color to "catch up"?

Yeah, you think you have jokes, but what you don't have is anything damn funny to say.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.3.34  JBB  replied to  CB @2.3.33    3 weeks ago

He if fucking with you for his amusement...

Because hundreds of years of generational human bondage followed by a century of institutional discrimination are funny /s...

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.3.35  1stwarrior  replied to  JBB @2.3.2    3 weeks ago

Really JBB? - how very wrong you are.  You've got your continents wrong.

Douglas Murray is a British subject - His writings are on British topics - repeat - BRITISH topics and, yes, he is a conservative, a neoconservative, is Islamophobic and he blasts the English/British government constantly. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.36  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.3.33    3 weeks ago
If you've taken the tour as you suggest others do

I got special tours since a good friend is one of the first docents of the museum.  His daughter, Candra Flanagan, is the director of the Teaching and Learning Unit in the museum’s Education Department. She does exceptional work with web tools for the museum.  

how come you don't know about the years of terror conservative whites inflicted upon black citizens?

Why would you think that I don’t?

Pretending not to be ashamed of the past misdeeds made to happen in this country

I’ve not pretended about anything.

all the while telling people of color to "catch up"

Why pretend that I’ve said that?

 
 
 
1stwarrior
Professor Guide
2.3.37  1stwarrior  replied to  JBB @2.3.5    3 weeks ago

Read the heading - it states that it's an Op/Ed - you do know the difference between "News" and "Opinion/Editorial" right?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2.3.34    3 weeks ago

I’m amused here by comments here on a number of topics.  I assume you are as well or you wouldn’t employ snark anymore than me.  I generally avoid the gratuitous attacks that you seem to enjoy.

There is nothing on this seed that I’ve written that I don’t believe to be true and nothing is racist.  


 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.39  CB   replied to  JBB @2.3.34    3 weeks ago

Some conservatives think we don't see them dogging liberals who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of color (majorities). Jim Crow 2.0 cloaks his and her vicious racist tendencies in conservative speech touting color-blindness. But for a group pretending to be color-blind these conservatives track 'real good' what white liberals, blacks, and other people of color are doing in the Democratic Party.

Color-blind? B-but they can see all the 'green' there is!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.40  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.3.36    3 weeks ago

You might should act like it, and limit or drop the bull.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.41  CB   replied to  Ronin2 @2.3.30    3 weeks ago

Population shifts are common. After all, states can't 'nail' their citizens feet to the ground can they? Besides, Texas, Florida, Oklahoma and the like are about to initiate a new round of shifts with all these policy prescriptions that are meant to made fine distinctions and leave a mark on people's freedoms, or lack thereof. Let's just see how it goes shall we?

Just for the record, what Governor Newsom is proposing with reparations comes as a complete shock to me-I must have not been keeping up with local news-until I recently saw the story. So, I am taking a look-see approach. Neither committed or uncommitted to the process.

And, like Barack Obama being elected president, most citizens of this country understand doing the right thing for the right reasons. Case in point. Billions sent overseas with nary a brow raised on "goodwill" ventures. EXCEPTION: Some conservatives cry foul. And we know they want it all for themselves.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.42  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.3.40    3 weeks ago

What are you talking about, what did I write that you think is bull?  Are you still imagining things that I said?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
2.3.43  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @2.3.42    3 weeks ago

Lots of cra-cra in this world.    

Especially when dosages are a little off .....

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
2.3.44  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @2.3.39    3 weeks ago
Some conservatives think we don't see them dogging liberals who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of color (majorities).

Why do you think that?  Do you think that I’m “dogging liberals who stand shoulder to shoulder with people of color”?  Have I written anything here that you believe is untrue? 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.45  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @2.3.31    3 weeks ago
Because the majority of that money went to actual interned peoples, not a dozen generation down the line moochers that have almost no proof their ancestors were brought here as slaves.

While that may be YOUR reason for not begrudging those reparations, it isn't mine bugsy.  

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
2.3.46  Dulay  replied to  bugsy @2.3.32    3 weeks ago
never received a dime for her efforts to the US.

Nor did my great uncle and aunt. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
2.3.47  CB   replied to  bugsy @2.3.32    3 weeks ago

Wow, some empathy finally! Respect. So it is there to be stirred.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Senior Quiet
2.3.48  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @2.3.2    3 weeks ago
There is zero chances of race reparations passing Congress or even a proposal on the table.

We have found a point of agreement on this.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    3 weeks ago

There are immense fatal flaws in this article. First of all, there is literally nothing new in this article, it is the same objection to reparations we have been hearing for 50 years. Why is the NY Post printing this today?  

Near the end of the article the writer says that too much time has passed between slavery and today to make reparations justifiable. Why didnt reparations occur earlier?  Because white racism was so pervasive for most of this country's history that no one would seriously consider it. Right after emancipation there was talk of giving ex slaves some land of their own that they could work , which would have constituted reparations of a kind, but nothing ever came of it and quickly treatment of blacks devolved into Jim Crow, which not only didnt provide for any reparations for ex slaves but actually oppressed them. 

The article makes the argument that there should be no reparations because Africans sold their "brethren" into slavery as if that even remotely explains the existence of millions of African slaves on the cotton plantations of the US in the 1800's. American slavery is an American problem and an American responsibility, not an African one. 

The writers tone seems to be "its all good now" in the 2000's and the playing field is level, but as Coates pointed out in his famous essay calling for reparations, black people in America were deprived of the chance to create generational wealth over the course of a couple hundred years, and this is not in any way a small or insignificant thing. For a long long time most blacks were not able to buy property in geographical areas where the property would gain real value over time, the houses they were allowed to buy were in aging, deteriorating areas away from the best access to good jobs and the prospect of rising property values. 

I dont think we need to make individual blacks rich, or even well off, with reparations, but we need to do something.

Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
There are immense fatal flaws in this article. First of all, there is literally nothing new in this article, it is the same objection to reparations we have been hearing for 50 years. Why is the NY Post printing this today? 

Oh, please do list all the new arguments made for reparations.

Some folks are seemingly incapable of talking about much other than "America's Racism" and think that they are making a difference.

They are not.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.1.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Texan1211 @3.1    3 weeks ago

“Some folks are seemingly incapable of talking about much other than "America's Racism" and think that they are making a difference.”

While some folks are unable (re: ignorant) and/or unwilling (re: ignorant and ignoble) to take the time to understand the history.

Understandable given some of those same folks think our shared history didn’t start until some folks (re: slaveholders) put pen to paper declaring only some folks worthy of independence. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.1.2  Texan1211  replied to  afrayedknot @3.1.1    3 weeks ago
While some folks are unable (re: ignorant) and/or unwilling (re: ignorant and ignoble) to take the time to understand the history.

Not to worry, I will be lenient with those fools.

Maybe I will teach them that opposing views don't mean one side doesn't understand something. I know, it is a Herculean task, but I will try my best!

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
The article makes the argument that there should be no reparations because Africans sold their "brethren" into slavery as if that even remotely explains the existence of millions of African slaves on the cotton plantations of the US in the 1800's.

It's the "victim card" played poorly. In Tucker Carlson like fashion: 'Those mean African slave traders too advantage of our ancestor's ignorance and greed and sold us these ignorant blacks to come be a burden to our purity and traditional ways.' 

If only the colonies had failed on the world stage, instead of besting the odds! Then, it could easily be accepted that those 'darkies' were a real menace to great achievement and continuance.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.2    3 weeks ago
If only the colonies had failed on the world stage, instead of besting the odds!

The most Black people would be Africans with very few African-Americas.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.2  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.1    3 weeks ago

And, where would stranded English and former English citizens be? Fortunately, it did not play out that way and we, all our of fore-bearers were here for each other, by default. The results on full display for all to see and remark upon. (In case it is not clear, English founders did not succeed on their strengths alone, they used the strengths and effectual power of everybody dwelling here to produce their world which lead to ours.) Now try all you wish, but history can not be severed or uncoupled from the people and tribes that created this country!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.2.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.2.2    3 weeks ago
Now try all you wish, but history can not be severed or uncoupled from the people and tribes that created this country!

I haven't tried and why do you think that I wish?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.4  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.3    3 weeks ago

Because you parse a great many contextual sentences and paragraphs, and then expound on what 'you' say with a lack of the whole 'thought' intact. Keep the narrative tight and it will help communication and save time for readers and writers alike!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.2.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.2.4    3 weeks ago
Because you parse a great many contextual sentences

I am guilty of believing that we should review US events within the larger context of world or human history.   

then expound on what 'you' say with a lack of the whole 'thought' intact.

I don't know what you mean.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.6  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.5    3 weeks ago

Reply in context of the totality of the comment coming before in mind. It's easy, with practice. You can even enhance an earlier comment, by add-ons, but 'chopping' a comment to bits and pieces runs the risk of meaning becoming dicey.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.2.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.2.6    3 weeks ago
Reply in context of the totality of the comment coming before in mind.

Can you restate that, I don’t know what you mean.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.8  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.7    3 weeks ago

Read comments and when you reply take into account the totality of what the read comment hopes to communicate across to the reader. Even if you only wish to enhance or add-on to its meaning. Or, to write your own counter-narrative.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.2.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.2.8    3 weeks ago

Thanks for clearing that up.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.2.10  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.2.9    3 weeks ago

You're welcome. 9ec90f2f319910b7e9d40ab11de4fad6.jpg

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.3  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country. 

Wrong but many of us will be happy to tell folks who expects us to pay reparations, for an ancient past we had nothing to do with, to kiss our lily white ass.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.3.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Sparty On @3.3    3 weeks ago

“…kiss our lily white ass.”

You should trademark that, sparky…could easily become the 2024 gop mantra.

Can already see the banners, bumper stickers and flags proudly displayed. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.3.2  JohnRussell  replied to  Sparty On @3.3    3 weeks ago

LOL, you are doubling and tripling down. How cute. 

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3.3.3  charger 383  replied to  Sparty On @3.3    3 weeks ago

absolutely 

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.3.4  Sparty On  replied to  afrayedknot @3.3.1    3 weeks ago

Can’t .... it’s already trademarked.

Two things, you have a spelling error, which is telling and this seed isn’t about me.

Thought you could use the assist in being more accurate.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.3.5  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.2    3 weeks ago

Thanks, that means a lot coming from you John.

A lot.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.6  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3    3 weeks ago

The United States is not ancient.

506363.jpg

Although, to suit your purposes, you very much desire to put as much distant between today and 1776 as you can get away with doing. Not going to happen. Now if you want to talk about 20,000 years ago on this 'spot' of the continent. . . give credit to the Native Americans (tribes )!

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.7  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.3.6    3 weeks ago

You digress again.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.8  CB   replied to  charger 383 @3.3.3    3 weeks ago

Et tú, Charger?!  Why would you think of the first English colonists arriving here as "ancient"? That is simply not borne out by the timeline.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.3.9  Texan1211  replied to  CB @3.3.8    3 weeks ago

The age is irrelevant. Why are you trying to make it important to the discussion?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.3.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.3.8    3 weeks ago
Why would you think of the first English colonists arriving here as "ancient"?

Exactly, most were young men and older boys, not at all ancient.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.11  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.3.10    3 weeks ago
_v=63f541632251944
3.3  Sparty On  replied to  JohnRussell @ 3     2 hours ago
Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country. 

Wrong but many of us will be happy to tell folks who expects us to pay reparations, for an ancient past we had nothing to do with, to kiss our lily white ass.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.3.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.3.11    3 weeks ago

Yes, 400 years is more precise.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.13  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.3.10    3 weeks ago

Yes, the Native Americans were this land's ancient people. Props, to the ancient Indigenous people of our land! No one should try to ignore their past with rhetoric!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.3.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.3.13    3 weeks ago
Props, to the NA tribes.

Props?  Their policy of Open Borders failed to serve them well.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.3.15  Sparty On  replied to  CB @3.3.6    3 weeks ago

As a country, slavery is ancient history.    Talk of reparations is nothing more than greed.

Nothing more ....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.3.16  CB   replied to  Sparty On @3.3.15    3 weeks ago

Not if some in this country get their way! What's old (not ancient) can be new again. and greed implies having more than what one needs-not so for people on the margins of society.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
as if that even remotely explains the existence of millions of African slaves on the cotton plantations of the US in the 1800's.

I think that there were just under 4 million in the US in 1860 and around 1.8 million were working cotton.  A huge increase after the invention of the cotton gin in 1793.  Only 5% or 600,000 of the 12 million slave taken from Africa came to North America. Unlike slavery in the Caribbean and Central and South America, most slave here were born here.  

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
3.4.1  afrayedknot  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4    3 weeks ago

“…most slave here were born here.”

Ah, home grown terrorism. That makes it all copacetic. Only 5%…well slap ourselves on the back and save the whip. Sheesh.  

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.4.2  JBB  replied to  afrayedknot @3.4.1    3 weeks ago

As if being born a slave and dying a slave on the same goddamn sugar or cotton plantation in Alabama or Mississippi made it all better...

 
 
 
charger 383
Professor Quiet
3.4.3  charger 383  replied to  JBB @3.4.2    3 weeks ago

And, As if taking money from people over 160 years later is going to make the dead feel any better 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.4.4  JohnRussell  replied to  JBB @3.4.2    3 weeks ago

The excuses they make, which are well known by now, have a tinge of racism. 

Some people want to "mitigate" the effect of slavery and even racism by saying something could have been worse or the victims didnt have it so bad. This crap has been going on forever and is a sympathetic view of the confederacy at heart. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  afrayedknot @3.4.1    3 weeks ago
Ah, home grown terrorism.

Terrorism? Huh?

well slap ourselves on the back and save the whip.

Don’t care for number in history?

Sheesh.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @3.4.2    3 weeks ago

Sorry, I didn’t realize that historical facts would trigger you.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.7  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.4    3 weeks ago
The excuses they make, which are well known by now, have a tinge of racism. 

Who made an excuse?

Some people want to "mitigate" the effect of slavery and even racism by saying something could have been worse or the victims didnt have it so bad.

How does that mitigate?  Maybe that’s just your bias running away with you.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.8  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4    3 weeks ago
Unlike slavery in the Caribbean and Central and South America, most slave here were born here.  

Bred. The appropriate term for chattel (people). And breeding practices took interest and center-stage in the colonies, because importation of slaves to the colonies' was ending and stopped.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.8    3 weeks ago
Bred . The appropriate term for chattel (people)

Ok.

And  breeding practices  took interest and center-stage in the colonies, because  importation   of slaves to the colonies' was ending and stopped.

" Unlike elsewhere in the New World, the South did not require constant infusions of immigrant slaves to keep its slave population intact. In fact, by 1825, 36 percent of the slaves in the Western hemisphere lived in the U.S. This was partly due to higher birth rates , which were in turn due to a more equal ratio of female to male slaves in the U.S. relative to other parts of the Americas. Lower mortality rates also figured prominently. Climate was one cause; crops were another. U.S. slaves planted and harvested first tobacco and then, after Eli Whitney’s invention of the cotton gin in 1793, cotton. This work was relatively less grueling than the tasks on the sugar plantations of the West Indies and in the mines and fields of South America. Southern slaves worked in industry, did domestic work, and grew a variety of other food crops as well, mostly under less abusive conditions than their counterparts elsewhere. For example, the South grew half to three-quarters of the corn crop harvested between 1840 and 1860."

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.10  CB   replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.4    3 weeks ago

At the least these people are fit in the selfish and greedy: "I got mine!" category. At best these people are mentally 'stunted' at the original intent level of this country. At its inception, the model for the United States was that of "rugged individualism" - where every man(wife, child, children) is for himself! "Buyer beware!" ("Caveat emptor.") That grew ever so incrementally to become: "For the tribe!"

But conservatives never agreed to: "Out of the many-One!"

Though early on, it became crystal clear that an "anemic" congress and "castrated" presidents were not going to be able to control a wide-open country with roaming bands of 'cut-throats' and other murderous, conniving, and scheming parties of men and women! So, the emergence of: U.S. MARSHALS and afterwards a growing system of policies and laws to govern - the ungovernable.

Conservatives have been malcontents, who are stuck under '"he bar'"or simply choose not to come up to its level.

They see the growth, development, and maturing of this great country as loss of its so-called, "innocence." Of course, liberals, see growth, development, and maturity as essential progress.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.11  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.10    3 weeks ago
At its inception, the model for the United States was that of "rugged individualism" - where every man(wife, child, children) is for himself! "Buyer beware!" ("Caveat emptor.")

I think that you've forgotten the volunteer fire departments that started almost 300 years ago and continue to this day.  Volunteers fought in our wars starting with the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War.  Volunteers started the YMCA, Red Cross, Salvation Army and the United Way.  Abolitionists were volunteers that raised money and were active politically.  From barn raising to today's food banks, American history is filled with volunteers.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.12  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.9    3 weeks ago

What is your argument?  A. Breeding of slaves stock.  B. Importation to the colonies stoppage.  C. Quality of slave 'agriculture.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.13  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.12    3 weeks ago
What is your argument? 

I didn't make an argument.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.14  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.11    3 weeks ago

And?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.15  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.14    3 weeks ago
And?

And I'm sorry that my disagreement with your assertion that the US was a model for "rugged individualism" wasn't more self evident to you.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.16  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.15    3 weeks ago

Volunteer forces are in-alignment with rugged individualism. The problem is it is slow of 'feat' in large urban centers where shit can happen enmasse and professionals are needed on 'stand-by.' Its the maturing of a country into major population centers that allow you to enjoy the plains, hills, "simple-living," and scenic 'backdrops' of outdoor-outback living.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.17  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.16    3 weeks ago
Volunteer forces are in-alignment with rugged individualism.

How so?

' Its the maturing of a country into major population centers that allow you to enjoy the plains, hills, "simple-living," and scenic 'backdrops' of outdoor-outback living.

I live in a urban/suburban county of 1.8 million when you add the separate locals of Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church and Fairfax City to the county.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.4.18  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.17    3 weeks ago

Booey for you. Then you can appreciate that volunteer agencies can't hand the 'load' of a city properly. Your remark about such agencies and activities is superfluous.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.4.19  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.4.18    3 weeks ago
Booey for you.

Booey?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
3.4.20  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.19    3 weeks ago

Baba boooey?

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3.5  seeder  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
ll good now" in the 2000's and the playing field is level, but as Coates pointed out in his famous essay calling for reparations, black people in America were deprived of the chance to create generational wealth over the course of a couple hundred years,

Lol.. The difference between white and black wealth  is mainly  in the top 10%.  The top 10% of whites are much wealthier than the top 10% of blacks.  

Will making rich blacks much richer in the name of equity end racial strife? 

but we need to do something.

Right. Nothing's been done. Those 300,000 Americans who gave their lives to end slavery.  Big deal.  The 19 trillion in public funds on the "war on poverty" that have disproportionally benefited black people.  Billions in affirmative action programs.  Nothing's been done 

Nothing exemplifies the weakness of your argument more than your need to ignore vast swaths of history. Talk about misinformation 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.5.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.5    3 weeks ago

Examining the Black-white wealth gap

A close examination of wealth in the U.S. finds evidence of staggering racial disparities. At $171,000, the net worth of a typical white family is nearly ten times greater than that of a Black family ($17,150) in 2016. Gaps in wealth between Black and white households reveal the effects of accumulated inequality and discrimination, as well as differences in power and opportunity that can be traced back to this nation’s inception. The Black-white wealth gap reflects a society that has not and does not afford equality of opportunity to all its citizens.

Efforts by Black Americans to build wealth can be traced back throughout American history. But these efforts have been impeded in a host of ways, beginning with 246 years of chattel slavery and followed by Congressional mismanagement of the Freedman’s Savings Bank (which left 61,144 depositors with losses of nearly $3 million in 1874), the violent massacre decimating Tulsa’s Greenwood District in 1921 (a population of 10,000 that thrived as the epicenter of African American business and culture, commonly referred to as “Black Wall Street”), and discriminatory policies throughout the 20 th century including the Jim Crow Era’s “Black Codes” strictly limiting opportunity in many southern states, the GI bill, the New Deal’s Fair Labor Standards Act’s exemption of domestic agricultural and service occupations, and redlining. Wealth was taken from these communities before it had the opportunity to grow.

This history matters for contemporary inequality in part because its legacy is passed down generation-to-generation through unequal monetary inheritances which make up a great deal of current wealth. In 2020 Americans are projected to inherit about $765 billion in gifts and bequests, excluding wealth transfers to spouses and transfers that support minor children. Inheritances account for roughly 4 percent of annual household income, much of which goes untaxed by the U.S. government.

Just how large and persistent are these racial wealth gaps? As figure 1 shows, median net worth for white households has far exceeded that of Black households through recessions and booms over the last thirty years. While movements in white wealth are easier to see due to the larger scale, during the most recent economic downturn, median net worth declined by more for Black families (44.3 percent decline from 2007 to 2013) than for white families (26.1 percent decline). In fact, the ratio of white family wealth to Black family wealth is higher today than at the start of the century.

Median wealth—or the wealth of the household at the middle of a distribution—gives the experience of the typical family, but does not reflect the bulk of national wealth that is held by the richest households. White average wealth ($929,800), which is more influenced by very rich families and does not characterize the typical experience, is 6.7 times greater than Black average wealth ($138,100).

White adults tend to be older (median age of 55) than African Americans (49 years old), and older people tend to have more wealth, but figure 2 shows that the wealth gap remains when looking within age groups. The typical young adult (18–34 years old) of either race has little wealth, but the gap rises quickly with age, and for 65–74-year-olds accumulates to $302,500 in median white wealth and $46,890 in median Black wealth.

Wealth is the sum of resources available to a household at a point in time; as such it is clearly influenced by the income of a household, but the two are not perfectly correlated. Two households can have the same income, but the household with fewer expenses, or with more accumulated wealth from past income or inheritances, will have more wealth. Figure 3 shows median net worth at different points in the family income distribution. What is immediately evident is that the racial wealth gap remains even for families with the same income. For those in the top 10 percent by income (only 3.6 percent Black), the racial wealth gap is still quite large: median net worth for white families in this income group is $1,789,300 versus $343,160 for Black families.

A racial gap exists in every income group except the bottom quintile (23.5 percent Black), where median net worth is zero for everyone.

Why are high- and middle-income white families so much wealthier than Black families with the same incomes? We note a few reasons. White families receive much larger inheritances on average than Black families. Economists Darrick Hamilton and Sandy Darity conclude that inheritances and other intergenerational transfers “account for more of the racial wealth gap than any other demographic and socioeconomic indicators.” In addition, the income groups in figure 2 are based on a snapshot of family income, which does not fully capture lifetime income. Black families who make it to the top of the income distribution in a particular year are more likely than white families to drop out of the top in subsequent years, and their respective wealth levels reflect this difference. Likely less important, but still notable, high- and middle-income Black families are more likely than their white counterparts to be called upon to assist family members and neighbors.

All of this matters because wealth confers benefits that go beyond those that come with family income. Wealth is a safety net that keeps a life from being derailed by temporary setbacks and the loss of income. This safety net allows people to take career risks knowing that they have a buffer when success is not immediately achieved. Family wealth allows people (especially young adults who have recently entered the labor force) to access housing in safe neighborhoods with good schools, thereby enhancing the prospects of their own children. Wealth affords people opportunities to be entrepreneurs and inventors. And the income from wealth is taxed at much lower rates than income from work, which means that wealth begets more wealth.

There is no single, simple explanation for the racial wealth gap. It is not explained away by differences in educational attainment, as Darrick Hamilton and Trevon Logan show in a recent article, and as we show in a recent Hamilton Project volume on tax policy. It is not accounted for by indebtedness—white families actually tend to have higher levels of debt. It is not even fully accounted for by differences in income, as seen in figure 3. In addition, the fact that intergenerational transfer of wealth is lightly taxed means that historical gaps persist over generations. Furthermore, inadequate investments in the public goods that facilitate economic mobility make it harder to erase past gaps.

The solutions to the Black-white wealth gap—and the policies that address racial inequity more generally—are largely outside the scope of this post. But the analysis above points to at least one type of reform: taxation of income from wealth. The income from inheritances, and from wealth more generally, is taxed at an inequitably low rate, especially when compared to earnings.

Well-designed taxes on inheritances, reforms to capital income taxation, and even taxes on wealth could be part of the solution. Inheritance or estate taxes in particular could enhance equality of opportunity, especially if revenues were invested in programs that give low-income children a better chance at economic success.

www.brookings.edu /blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/Kriston McIntosh, Emily Moss, Ryan Nunn, Jay Shambaugh7-9 minutes 2/27/2020

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3.5.2  seeder  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.5.1    3 weeks ago

That's a long way of saying  "you are correct"

So the "Wealth gap" that is relatively small  can be more than explained by differences in education level and family cohesiveness.  The idea that the median white person enjoys some massive patrimony that catapults them into a life of ease is preposterous. 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.5.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.5.2    3 weeks ago

A racial gap exists in every income group except the bottom quintile (23.5 percent Black), where median net worth is zero for everyone.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.5.4  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.5.3    3 weeks ago

Bold talk, JR, mighty bold talk.

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3.5.5  seeder  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.5.3    3 weeks ago

No kidding.  Why would you think that's a rebuttal to what I wrote? 

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.5.6  JohnRussell  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.5.5    3 weeks ago
That's a long way of saying  "you are correct"

There is nothing in that article that says "you are correct". 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Why is the NY Post printing this today?  

Because the premise is correct and can't be disputed.


Why didnt reparations occur earlier? 

There were two plans formulated when Lincoln was still alive: 1) was to send the freed slaves back to the places they were taken from, or to a nation called Liberia. 2) was to break up the old plantations and give each newly freed slave / family a mule and 40 acres of land. (I favor the former)  The problem was Lincoln was assassinated and his VP Andrew Johnson had much different ideas. Unfortunately, the "victims" are no longer with us.


The writers tone seems to be "its all good now" in the 2000's and the playing field is level, but as Coates pointed out in his famous essay calling for reparations, black people in America were deprived of the chance to create generational wealth over the course of a couple hundred years, and this is not in any way a small or insignificant thing.

Coates is a woke thug.


I dont think we need to make individual blacks rich, or even well off, with reparations, but we need to do something.

As I say to the Harvard faculty who feel guilt: YOU DO IT!

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.6.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.6    3 weeks ago
There were two plans formulated when Lincoln was still alive: 1) was to send the freed slaves back to the places they were taken from, or to a nation called Liberia.

And that constituted "reparations" in your mind?  Amazing !

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.6.2  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.6.1    3 weeks ago
And that constituted "reparations" in your mind? 

Um, NO, that was one of the plans under discussion during the times of Lincoln.

I thought he had made that perfectly clear with this:

There were two plans formulated when Lincoln was still alive: 1) was to send the freed slaves back to the places they were taken from, or to a nation called Liberia. 2) was to break up the old plantations and give each newly freed slave / family a mule and 40 acres of land. (I favor the former)  The problem was Lincoln was assassinated and his VP Andrew Johnson had much different ideas. Unfortunately, the "victims" are no longer with us.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.6.3  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.6.2    3 weeks ago
Why didnt reparations occur earlier?
 There were two plans formulated when Lincoln was still alive: 1) was to send the freed slaves back to the places they were taken from, or to a nation called Liberia. 2) was to break up the old plantations and give each newly freed slave / family a mule and 40 acres of land. (I favor the former) 

That was his answer to the question  Why didnt reparations occur earlier?

Would you like us to believe that his answer to a specific question did not address that question? 

Why do you do nothing but try and nit pick others comments?  Do you have anything substantial to say about the topic? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.6.4  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.6.3    3 weeks ago

I said what I need to.

if you have failed to understand, that isn't my problem.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.6.5  CB   replied to  Vic Eldred @3.6    3 weeks ago

Well, white conservative descendants of people that look like you benefited from the free labor of slaves and continue to benefit from being strident against this country's equality and equity treatment of all its citizens. Some conservatives are a non-stop problem for this country. If not careful, there will be another 'federal' case made for a different set of reparations by citizens who are being oppressed by conservative ideology 'today.' Keep it up. Watch it not go away on its own! 

And no one cares where you and those of like-mind with you would have liked to send blacks, because as you can see-nature took its own course. And this country is better off for it!

The myth is this country is great because of white conservatives, sure, in part, but it foolish to think that all that has been accomplished in this country is not a blend of all the inhabitants "shaken up and pressed down together" to lift our nation to its dominating superpower status.

I challenge you to demonstrate differently! So, let's take that implied lie off the table right here and now!!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.6.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.6.5    3 weeks ago
descendants of people that look like you benefited from the free labor of slaves

There was nothing free about it.  Slaves were expensive to buy and they had to be feed, sheltered and clothed.  That cost coupled with growing industrialization of the Northern economy meant that by the end of the American Revolution, slavery became largely unprofitable in the North and was slowly dying out. Slaves continued  to be economical on large farms where labor-intensive cash crops, such as tobacco, sugar and rice, could be grown in the South.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.6.7  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.6.6    3 weeks ago

Of course, slaves were not 'free' - any more than owning any other costly 'beasts of burden.' That didn't stop or slow early slaveholders intent to own, nevertheless.

By the way, slaves and their progeny were  capitalized when needed: A. To obtain loans.  B. To 'shore up' failing enterprises.  C. As workers to pay off debts (let your mind imagine who/what/how that could 'exhaust' itself (rape/ murders/theft/robberies/sexual release - perhaps we're never get a clear reading on it?)  D. For profit auction sales. E. Infused with the master's "pedigree" to create a distinct stock grade. F. As ordered by the authorities and required "amenities."

For himself or herself a slave was of limited or 'worthless' value. For the master a slave was an awesome, living, breathing, walking, thinking "automaton."

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.6.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.6.7    3 weeks ago
Of course, slaves were not 'free'

Exactly, I knew that was just a slip on the keyboard before.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
3.6.9  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.6.8    3 weeks ago

Your keyboard perhaps? Not mine. And you're ineptly parsing sentences again.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.6.10  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @3.6.9    3 weeks ago
And you're ineptly parsing sentences again.

Do you thing that parsing words is bad, why?  What are some examples of my inept parsing that you see?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.6.11  JohnRussell  replied to  CB @3.6.9    3 weeks ago

Why do so many conservatives on this forum think their role is to micromanage the comments of others?

Do they have so little they wish to, or are able to, say? 

The number of inconsequential comments made by right wingers on this site is off the charts. 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.6.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.6.11    3 weeks ago
Why do so many conservatives on this forum think their role is to micromanage the comments of others?

Is that even possible?

The number of inconsequential comments made by right wingers on this site is off the charts. 

Will you share the stats?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.6.13  JohnRussell  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.6.12    3 weeks ago

Look inward. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.7  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3    3 weeks ago
Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country. 

You have repeated that line several times.

Who is doing all this denying you keep claiming is happening?

Everyone I know realizes that slavery happened, and Jim Crow happened.

No one I know has ever denied it happening.

Changes nothing either way.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.7.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.7    3 weeks ago

Well for one thing, racism kept 19th century reparations plans from taking place. Racism was extremely widespread. Many whites would like us to believe it was scattershot and was totally addressed by the Civil War. Not true at all. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.7.2  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.7.1    3 weeks ago

You seem to project a whole lot.

That seems a far cry from your claim that "Many millions of whites are simply in denial over the racist past of this country.".

I have yet to meet any of these millions of white folks denying racism in the past.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
3.7.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JohnRussell @3.7.1    3 weeks ago
Many whites would like us to believe it was scattershot and was totally addressed by the Civil War. Not true at all. 

Exactly, racism throughout the Northern urban centers as well as the South.  Oregon prohibited Black people and California tried to kick them out.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.7.4  JohnRussell  replied to  Texan1211 @3.7.2    3 weeks ago

They admit that some outliers were racist. They deny that racism was widespread and that the U.S. is a historically racist country, which it most certainly is. 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.7.5  Texan1211  replied to  JohnRussell @3.7.4    3 weeks ago

no, most people just don't bother to get all worked up over stuff they can't change un the past and that they had nothing to do with

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4  Sparty On    3 weeks ago

For all those who have guilt over things that happened generations ago, you have an option. Put together a non profit and ask for donations from like minded people.

Then you can hand it out to your hearts intent.

Good luck .... I might donate a few bucks if you ask nicely ....

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1  CB   replied to  Sparty On @4    3 weeks ago

You've and your defensive rhetoric. Conservative donation won't suffice ("tricky hands," but thanks for those 'thoughts and prayers' anyway. You got jokes! I bet even a million of them, huh? jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif   Is 'class' out yet; can I be "Dismissed"?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.1  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.1    3 weeks ago

C’mon man, don’t be weak.   Man up and lead.    Pull yourself up by your boot straps and start that company to pay your reparations.    Stop expecting someone else to pay your way.    That’s some weak shit there CB.

Perhaps you can ask for some of your BLM donations back.    Those donations went a long way to help people of color.    The ones living in the mansions they bought that is.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
4.1.2  CB   replied to  Sparty On @4.1.1    3 weeks ago

You pull up your bootstraps and be grateful nobody 'shorted' your supply of laces. Thanks for that 'man talk' at the butt end of every thang, Okay - Good night and dismissed, SO.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
4.1.3  Sparty On  replied to  CB @4.1.2    3 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
5  Tacos!    3 weeks ago

Reparations make amends for wrongs and repair damage. There is nothing wrong with reparations, but there are many ways to go about it. Cash is not the only way to make reparations. It’s not always the best way, and it may not even be part of reparation at all. 

When it comes issues of racial justice, especially evolving out of slavery in the US, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution are reparations. Justice in the Supreme Court - e.g. Brown v Board of Education - is reparations. A nation of white people electing a black president is reparation. Civil Rights Acts are reparation. Fair Housing is reparation. Ongoing efforts to ensure equity and justice are reparation.

All of the above items, and more not mentioned, are far more significant and effective reparation that writing checks to random people.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
5.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Tacos! @5    3 weeks ago
When it comes issues of racial justice, especially evolving out of slavery in the US, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution are reparations. Justice in the Supreme Court - e.g. Brown v Board of Education - is reparations. A nation of white people electing a black president is reparation. Civil Rights Acts are reparation. Fair Housing is reparation. Ongoing efforts to ensure equity and justice are reparation.

Nonsense. All the amendments and the Brown vs Board of Education decision did is acknowledge the rights and citizenship of people who were for the most part born here. 

NOUN
reparations (plural noun)
  1. the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged:
    "the courts required a convicted offender to make financial reparation to his victim"
    synonyms:
    amends   ·   restitution   ·   redress   ·   compensation   ·   recompense   ·   repayment   ·   atonement   ·   indemnification   ·   indemnity   ·   damages   ·   solatium
    • (reparations)
      the compensation for war damage paid by a defeated state:
      "the Treaty of Versailles imposed heavy reparations and restrictions on Germany"

    =========================================================================

    Just granting citizenship or basic rights is not reparations. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2  CB   replied to  Tacos! @5    3 weeks ago
When it comes issues of racial justice, especially evolving out of slavery in the US, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the Constitution are reparations. Justice in the Supreme Court - e.g. Brown v Board of Education - is reparations. A nation of white people electing a black president is reparation. Civil Rights Acts are reparation. Fair Housing is reparation. Ongoing efforts to ensure equity and justice are reparation.

It's a shame you articulated this. Our country is a lying, heaving, monstrosity, because of the need for these ADDITIONAL materials, and not one of these policies or laws came without some white people wringing their hands, and some even writhing in pain or loss to make all of the possibilities emergent. They rights and privileges were ours (promises made) the moment our constitution was signed-but then again, they were not ours! And how could that distinction exist out in the open?! Because, some of the people in our country were detestable and sick in mind and in their hearts.

I could continue in this mindset, but I would probably break out into a rage and swearing every other word!

Black people and others are grateful for the laws and the "goodness" of white people who have advocated for the good cause, but (clenching  and releasing here) that many of our generations of everybody dwelling in our homeland who are not APPROVED OF BY CONSERVATISM, have felt the arrogance and 'whip and lash' of conservatives means this we are not free to be ourselves!

Thus, the United States is a fraudulent nation. The United States is not exceptional! The United States kills the spirit of its people! The United States is a lie!

And, yet the people 'flourish' despite being repeatedly stabbed in their political and societal 'hearts.'

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2    3 weeks ago
The United States kills the spirit of its people!

At least we receive spirit from our growing immigrant population. In 1975, only about 5% of our population was born outside of the US, today it's about 15%.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
5.2.2  Tacos!  replied to  CB @5.2    3 weeks ago

You seem to think that I’m saying we are done. I’m not. In fact, I used the word “ongoing.” I do think that in this case, money is not the right approach. It would have been a more appropriate component of reparation in 1865, but not so much now.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.3  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Tacos! @5.2.2    3 weeks ago
You seem to think that I’m saying we are done.

He may be just frustrated right now.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.4  CB   replied to  Tacos! @5.2.2    3 weeks ago
It would have been a more appropriate component of reparation in 1865, but not so much now.

We were not treated like early Americans, Tacos! It was an amazing lie! It was destructive, demoralizing, it was inhuman. We were berefted of our humanity, while all the time knowing we could not buy into the 'delusion.' And then once our humanity was recognized by Lincoln, the social stigmatizing began in earnest. Some whites in some states would talk about our smell ('beastly'), talk about our communication lack of skills mockingly, cheat us to our faces, run us out of towns (sundown laws meant once 'chores' were done - you had nothing of interest to your 'fellow' citizenship), hired and armed transit bus drivers (Georgia) to shoot us down without any legal recourse, and then came police 'patrols.'

How is any of any of that not as bad or worse than for the Japanese Americans? For example: Were Japanese ever stigmatized by "colored" water fountains?

White people can give change or alter our known and traversed history in the United States, but they can do what needs to be done to make peace with their own wrongs.

It is ironic to here today's conservative use a talking point about "think of the kids of tomorrow" - what will they have because of the so-called sin of doing right by a segment of citizen's of today.

Now throw that thought back through time and ask: What if early white settlers had considered the harm they were setting their child/ren of right now up for when they conducted themselves horribly to the people of color in their lifetimes?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.5  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.4    3 weeks ago
How is any of any of that not as bad or worse than for the Japanese Americans?

I'm with you CB, You've got the JA beat by a mile or more.  

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.6  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.5    3 weeks ago

BTW, the way have you noticed how conservatives 'explode' to the weakening or 'unlatching' of a freedom, privilege, or service in this country? It should give the same conservatives pause to think that they EVER let so much worse happen to their fellow citizens. Instead, they do make it worse through 'gaslighting' minorities—while we are steadily looking right into their eyes.

 
 
 
Tacos!
Professor Expert
5.2.7  Tacos!  replied to  CB @5.2.4    3 weeks ago

I don’t disagree with the things you have said, but I still believe the best thing we can do, going forward, is to build a more just and loving society. I think there is much greater value in that than just printing more money and spreading it around.

In fact, the kind of large scale distribution of money that many propose would only serve to devalue that money, creating a society of want and desperation, which will only lead to greater injustice and brutality.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.6    3 weeks ago
BTW, the way have you noticed how conservatives 'explode' to the weakening or 'unlatching' of a freedom, privilege, or service in this country?

i don’t know what you mean by explode or unlatching.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.9  Texan1211  replied to  CB @5.2    3 weeks ago
Thus, the United States is a fraudulent nation. The United States is not exceptional! The United States kills the spirit of its people! The United States is a lie!

So why have you chosen to live here if America sucks so bad?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.10  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.8    3 weeks ago
i don’t know what you mean by explode or unlatching

Maybe using words inappropriately somehow makes the claims true?

Or at least more dramatic?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.11  CB   replied to  Tacos! @5.2.7    3 weeks ago

Don't take this as being irresponsible, okay? But if our society and economy is supposed to 'tank' and this experiment in liberty, freedom, and prosperity is doomed to failure then, let it. Trying to keep national hypocrisy (lie) afloat by stiffing 'the other guys' makes us all look ridiculous to clear-eyed, reasonable people here and abroad.

It would seem to some here and abroad, I am pretty sure, that the U.S. is trying to buy friends; 'pushing' cold-hard cash into their faces in  order to hide our indecent and low national character.

Truth be told, our international friends highly probably want this nation to repair it's internal relationships first before exporting any more of our brokenness abroad! It might 'leap' onto them if we get too close!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.12  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.11    3 weeks ago
Don't take this as being irresponsible, okay?

Okay.

But if our society and economy is supposed to 'tank' and this experiment in liberty, freedom, and prosperity is doomed to failure then, let it.

Supposed to, like fate or destiny?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.13  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.12    3 weeks ago

Running on bullshit can only take this nation's reputation so far; it is questionable where it will come to a rest. It is better to come clean with the black citizenry and other people of color about what was done and what must be done to settle it: once and for all. Otherwise, this nation's millstone will continue to dangle around its neck (and its future black, brown, red, yellow, and especially white children) indefinitely. Each generation as morally sick (and tired) as we are today of this (America's: White / people of color problem.)

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.14  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.13    3 weeks ago
Running on bullshit can only take this nation's reputation so far

Why do you think that is what the country principally runs on?

It is better to come clean with the black citizenry and other people of color about what was done

Do you not know what was done?

what must be done to settle it: once and for all.

What would that be?

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.15  Sparty On  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.14    3 weeks ago
What would that be?

more free stuff .... that should fix it once and for all.    

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.16  CB   replied to  Sparty On @5.2.15    3 weeks ago

You conservatives should know about that, as most, not all of you, transact your souls away every day to make 'ends meet.'

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.17  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.14    3 weeks ago

A better question for you: Since the United States has been a nation; how long has it been 'sick in the head'?

Who is causing the United States to stay sick in the head: (Choose one, please.)

  1. Conservative whites.
  2. Liberal whites.
  3. Conservative people of color.
  4. Liberal people of color.
  5. All of the above.
  6. None of the above.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
5.2.18  Texan1211  replied to  CB @5.2.16    3 weeks ago
You conservatives should know about that, as most, but not all of you transact your soul away every day to make 'ends meet.'

You have a wonderful imagination.

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.19  Sparty On  replied to  CB @5.2.16    3 weeks ago

Always labeling people.    I say, let the labeled people free.

LPM ..... set my labeled people free ......

 
 
 
Sparty On
Professor Principal
5.2.20  Sparty On  replied to  CB @5.2.17    3 weeks ago

7.)  people who are off their meds and/or are having dosing issues

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.21  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.17    3 weeks ago
Since the United States has been a nation; how long has it been 'sick in the head'?

Nation's can't be mentally ill.  A portion of it's population can, you can argue that some aspects of a culture or society are better than others for mental health. 

What do you mean that the US nation is 'sick in the head'?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.2.22  CB   replied to  Drinker of the Wry @5.2.21    3 weeks ago
Since the United States has been a nation; how long has it been 'sick in the head?

You choose to evade the question. Okay. I'm fine with that!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Expert
5.2.23  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  CB @5.2.22    3 weeks ago
You choose to evade the question.

Again, I'm not a doctor but a nation isn't a single person,  I asked you to clarify your question.  You haven't done that. Okay, I'm fine with that.

 
 
 
bugsy
Professor Participates
5.2.24  bugsy  replied to  CB @5.2.17    3 weeks ago

Number 2

 
 
 
Lucifer Morningstar
Professor Guide
6  Lucifer Morningstar    3 weeks ago

No end to these losers groveling for handouts from the government.  Trouble is it will never do any good they’ll just  further cement their status as losers.  It’s not an opinion it’s a historical  fact. 

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
6.1  CB   replied to  Lucifer Morningstar @6    3 weeks ago

 Look jrSmiley_86_smiley_image.gif at who's jrSmiley_4_smiley_image.png arrived! Luther Morningstar! jrSmiley_10_smiley_image.gif

 
 

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