United States' Response to Motion for Judicial Oversight and Additional Relief

  

Category:  News & Politics

By:  tig  •  4 weeks ago  •  109 comments

United States' Response to Motion for Judicial Oversight and Additional Relief
... the Government Seized Thirty-Three Boxes, Containers, or Items of Evidence, Which Contained over a Hundred Classified Records, Including Information Classified at the Highest Levels Pursuant to the above-described search protocols

A legal response including a timeline for NARA attempting to get classified documents back from Trump's residence.

Here is a link to an article that puts this all in context: 

Here is a link to the full detail of the response:

Here is a summary of the timeline contained in the response:


A. NARA, upon Observing that It Was Missing Presidential Records from the Former President’s Administration, Attempted to Obtain the Missing Records Voluntarily from the Former President’s Representatives Throughout 2021, the United States National Archives and Records Administration (“NARA”) had ongoing communications with representatives of former President Trump in which it sought the transfer of what it perceived were missing records from his Administration.

B. Observing that the Fifteen Boxes Contained “Highly Classified Records,” NARA Sent a Referral to the Department of Justice “In its initial review of materials within those boxes, NARA identified items marked as classified national security information, up to the level of Top Secret and including Sensitive Compartmented Information and Special Access Program materials. NARA informed the Department of Justice about that discovery.”

C. The Former President Delayed the FBI’s Access to the Fifteen Boxes As the NARA Referral stated, the Fifteen Boxes contained “highly classified records.” Upon learning this, DOJ sought access to the Fifteen Boxes in part “so that the FBI and others in the Intelligence Community could examine them.”

D. The FBI’s Review of the Fifteen Boxes Highlighted the National Security Implications of Their Improper Storage Between May 16-18, 2022, after finally obtaining access to the Fifteen Boxes, FBI agents conducted a preliminary review of the documents and identified documents with classification markings in fourteen of the Fifteen Boxes.

E. After Obtaining Evidence Indicating that Additional Classified Records Remained at the Premises, DOJ Initially Sought Their Return Through the Issuance of a Grand Jury Subpoena2 Through its investigation,3 the FBI developed evidence indicating that even after the Fifteen Boxes were provided to NARA, dozens of additional boxes remained at the Premises that were also likely to contain classified information. Accordingly, DOJ obtained a grand 2 The former President disclosed this subpoena and a subpoena for video footage at the Premises in his filings to this Court.

F. In Response to the Subpoena, Counsel for the Former President Provided a Limited Number of Documents Accompanied by a Certification that All Responsive Documents Were Produced Following a Diligent Search On June 3, 2022, three FBI agents and a DOJ attorney arrived at the Premises to accept receipt of the materials. In addition to counsel for the former President, another individual was also present as the custodian of records for the former President’s post-presidential office. When producing the documents, neither counsel nor the custodian asserted that the former President had declassified the documents or asserted any claim of executive privilege.

G. After Further Investigation Indicated that the Response to the Subpoena Was Incomplete, that Obstructive Conduct Occurred in Connection with the Response to the Subpoena, and that Classified Information Remained at the Premises, DOJ Obtained a Court-Authorized Search Warrant Through further investigation, the FBI uncovered multiple sources of evidence indicating that the response to the May 11 grand jury subpoena was incomplete and that classified documents remained at the Premises, notwithstanding the sworn certification made to the government on June 3. In particular, the government developed evidence that a search limited to the Storage Room would not have uncovered all the classified documents at the Premises. The government also developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation.

H. During the August 8 Execution of the Search Warrant at the Premises, the Government Seized Thirty-Three Boxes, Containers, or Items of Evidence, Which Contained over a Hundred Classified Records, Including Information Classified at the Highest Levels Pursuant to the above-described search protocols , the government seized thirty-three items of evidence, mostly boxes (hereinafter, the “Seized Evidence”), falling within the scope of Attachment B to the search warrant because they contained documents with classification markings or what otherwise appeared to be government records. Three classified documents that were not located in boxes, but rather were located in the desks in the “45 Office,” were also seized. Per the search warrant protocols discussed above, the seized documents included documents that were collectively stored or found together with documents with classification markings.

I. The Privilege Review Team Has Completed Its Work The privilege review team has completed its review of the materials in its custody and control that were identified as potentially privileged.

Bottom line, some people claim that the news of Trump holding classified documents at his residence is mere rhetoric, mere partisan media bullshit.   Not sure there is any way to get through to those who refuse to acknowledge reality, but if they deny this then they will truly deny anything.


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TᵢG
Professor Principal
1  author  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

A formal, legal response including a timeline for NARA attempting to get classified documents back from Trump's residence.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.1  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @1    4 weeks ago

just the logistics in the processing of all this information involved thousands of man hours. my source in the xxx stated that everyone that would be exposed to these documents had to be cleared and have their security clearances approved prior. I'm impressed on how very meticulous merrick garland is in this investigation.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
1.2  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @1    4 weeks ago

We still don't really know what's in those boxes and folders, or the level of classification of security they currently are at, but hey, let's all rush to judgement.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/08/31/latest-trump-raid-update-exposes-biden-dojs-fundamental-misunderstanding-of-the-n2612495?utm_campaign=rightrailsticky1

afb082922dAPC20220829034503.jpg

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.1  Ozzwald  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    4 weeks ago
We still don't really know what's in those boxes and folders, or the level of classification of security they currently are at, but hey, let's all rush to judgement.

1*BU57RnJoFGfiZq3d7sgxYQ.jpeg

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
1.2.2  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    4 weeks ago
let's all rush to judgement.

Cause ...... The FBI (Shown/Proven to be deceitful already)

256

and the DOJ (Parents are Terrorists too)

256

said so !

And .......... WE HATE TRUMP and ALL THOSE THAT SUPPORTED HIM !

You, You, You, SEMI-FACISTS, YOU !

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Split Personality  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    4 weeks ago

and Eric Trump says he has the film of these horrible agents ransacking the Country Club

and laying out these documents for the FBI Evidence Collection team.

512

One has to wonder, why, if the Maralago video tapes are so damning,

they haven't been released.

Probably because it would prove that an unarmed group of FBI evidence collection agents

caused no harm and planted no evidence.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.4  Ozzwald  replied to  Split Personality @1.2.3    4 weeks ago
and Eric Trump says he has the film of these horrible agents ransacking the Country Club and laying out these documents for the FBI Evidence Collection team.

Don't forget that Trump has admitted he had them, and has even demanded them back.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.5  author  TᵢG  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2.4    4 weeks ago
... and has even demanded them back.

... demonstrating that his intent was to keep them and not cooperate with their return to NARA.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.6  CB   replied to  TᵢG @1.2.5    4 weeks ago

Emphatically. Donald Trump is the worse human being operating in plain sight. Why is this 'man' not been put in his 'place' yet? He is clearly and evidentially running amok!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.7  author  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    4 weeks ago
We still don't really know what's in those boxes and folders, or the level of classification of security they currently are at, but hey, let's all rush to judgement.

Rush to judgment??   What do you need, Greg, to believe that Trump had classified documents in his residence and some were at TS/SCI level?

Do you think the DoJ is lying in this legal response?

What authoritative entity must provide this information for you to actually believe it?

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.8  CB   replied to  TᵢG @1.2.7    4 weeks ago

The circular 'reasoner': Donald J. Trump. It would have to come from that 'Old Fart' himself. And Mr. "45" ain't going to admit to anything, at all! ESPECIALLY if he can find a set of 'fool' attorneys to keep him living in a Trump 'world' of his own design.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.9  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Greg Jones @1.2    4 weeks ago
let's all rush to judgement.

Do you expect anything less from them?  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.10  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.9    4 weeks ago

That is the exact opposite of what is taking place.   The evidence overwhelmingly points to Trump holding classified documents (some at TS/SCI level) at his residence and that Trump was not cooperating in their return.

It is not a rush to judgment to follow the evidence to where it leads.

In contrast, yours is a ridiculous level of denial.   You refuse to even acknowledge that Trump has done wrong.

My expectation is that you did not even read the summary I provided in this article, much less the full DoJ response.

Did you read this part even?:

... the Government Seized Thirty-Three Boxes, Containers, or Items of Evidence, Which Contained over a Hundred Classified Records, Including Information Classified at the Highest Levels Pursuant to the above-described search protocols

Do you think that the DoJ is lying in this legal response when it states that Trump was holding classified records including those at the Highest Levels?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.11  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.10    4 weeks ago
That is the exact opposite of what is taking place.   The evidence overwhelmingly points to

The "evidence" you claim is incomplete.  We don't know exactly what was held by the former POTUS or taken by the FBI.  We do know it took 18 months to do something.  (Conveniently right before mid-term elections where the Democrats really don't stand a chance.).  So yes, you are doing EXACTLY as Greg Jones stated - Rushing to judgement.

Do you think that the DoJ is lying in this legal response when it states that Trump was holding classified records including those at the Highest Levels?

I don't' think they are being completely honest.  They're feeding you enough information to jump to unfounded conclusions.  And here you are - jumping to unfounded conclusions.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
1.2.12  CB   replied to  TᵢG @1.2.10    4 weeks ago
DOJ response to Trump special master 

Page 13 [last paragraph, last sentence]

That the FBI, in a matter of hours, recovered twice as many documents with classifications markings as the "diligent search" that the former President's counsel and other representatives had weeks to perform calls into serious question the representations made in the June 3 certification and casts doubt on the extent of cooperation in this matter.

This is an indictment in its own right! The Trump "team" and Donald Trump are on a new occasion not keeping faith with its government to come clean of documents. Note  the cynical use of quotes around, "diligent search" above: ONLY A FOOL WOULD BELIEVE Donald J. Trump ordered the turn over of all relevant documents and his instruction to do so was not followed. Donald Trump has not even made such an excuse.

Those newstalkers arriving at this article to overlook, diminish, dismiss, and cast about for some distraction are fraudulent 'actors' bringing no value or reputable benefit to this discussion!

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.13  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.11    4 weeks ago

Wow, the hypocrisy in that comment is epic. 

You first state:

We do know it took 18 months to do something.  (Conveniently right before mid-term elections where the Democrats really don't stand a chance.).  So yes, you are doing EXACTLY as Greg Jones stated - Rushing to judgement.

Which illustrates an opinion that jumps to unfounded conclusions.

Then you insist that TiG is jumping to unfounded conclusions after he has posted a plethora of documented evidence on which he bases his posit. 

Your comment lacks all credulity Jeremy. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.14  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.11    4 weeks ago
We don't know exactly what was held by the former POTUS or taken by the FBI. 

Nor will we ever know.   The classified documents will never be publicly enumerated.   You have no argument so you simply make impossible demands.   The best we will ever get are formal, legal declarations that classified documents (some TS/SCI) were found on the premises.   

I don't' think they are being completely honest.  

Is it possible for you to answer a direct question?    

Do you think that Trump was NOT holding classified documents (some TS/SCI) in his residence and that the DoJ is lying when they state that he was?

 
 
 
Dismayed Patriot
Professor Participates
1.2.15  Dismayed Patriot  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.7    4 weeks ago
Rush to judgment??   What do you need, Greg, to believe that Trump had classified documents in his residence and some were at TS/SCI level?

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" - DJT

We are seeing the reality of one of the only non-fictional statements from the former President. His followers don't care about the law, facts or reality because they have already convinced themselves that some nefarious shadow government of godless liberal secularists are breaking the law, even though they have zero proof of such nonsense, so they have no shame or remorse defending their right wing conservative leaders and Mango Mussolini even when they break the law, put our nation at risk by illegally possessing and storing top secret documents or inspire an attempted insurrection.

So to answer your question on Greg's behalf, I don't think there is anything you could submit to get Trumps ass lickers to believe he has ever done anything wrong. You could present a video of him shooting someone on 5th Ave and they would just declare the person deserved it. If you present evidence of Trump getting urinated on by underage Russian prostitutes they would declare it was a 'deep fake'. If you presented stacks of tax and bank documents showing Trump directed and authorized the tax evasion and bank fraud they would claim it's all a witch hunt and the documents must have been forged.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.16  author  TᵢG  replied to  Dismayed Patriot @1.2.15    4 weeks ago
I don't think there is anything you could submit to get Trumps ass lickers to believe he has ever done anything wrong.

Some in this forum have grudgingly acknowledged that Trump has done wrong on specific counts (one being holding classified documents).   Others, as you can see, defiantly and absurdly deny all information that goes against Trump and blindly accept speculation and conspiracy theory nonsense that would serve to defend Trump.

It is pathetic.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.17  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @1.2.13    4 weeks ago

There's no hypocrisy at all.  NOTHING I said is false.  Feel free to try to prove it as false.  I'll await your links.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.18  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.14    4 weeks ago
to answer a direct question?

You ask a question.  I answered the question. Just because it's not the answer YOU wanted doesn't change that fact.

Oh, and nice movement of the goal posts.  In 1.2.10 you ask:

Do you think that the DoJ is lying in this legal response when it states that Trump was holding classified records including those at the Highest Levels

Now the question changed in 1.2.14

Do you think that Trump was NOT holding classified documents (some TS/SCI) in his residence and that the DoJ is lying when they state that he was?

As I told you before - Get your shit together.

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.2.19  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.11    4 weeks ago
The "evidence" you claim is incomplete.  We don't know exactly what was held by the former POTUS or taken by the FBI.  We do know it took 18 months to do something.  (Conveniently right before mid-term elections where the Democrats really don't stand a chance.).  So yes, you are doing EXACTLY as Greg Jones stated - Rushing to judgement.

So it took too long in your eyes (18 months) as NARA attempted to retrieve items Trump refused to produce, claims are his, and he de-classified, and now wants back. Nara notifies the DOJ and they subpoena any and all Presidential Records, as he(trump) IS NOT POTUS and has no, NEVER DID,  right to claim these records, but we;re ALL RUSSIAN to Judgement....? No Jeremy, but perhaps it's time you moseyed on up to reality, cause defending Trump the chump, makes it look like you too wish to take a dump, on US, A poor decision to say the least, so i'll say more. There WAS every right for a DOJ to go and confiscate what IS OURS, NOT TRUMPS ! He has shown NO RESPECT for the Sanctity and Vital Importance for Classified Information, as he has exampled prior, cause trump was dufus for hire, and your elevation exposes new lows, on the Republican/GOP party of hippocrazy watered down crocidile tears tearing at US with your Alligator up in Arms, over a legal process to help reclaim TOP SECRET and Classified Documents that TRUMP SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD !!!!   

Yet it is obvious to you and Greg, we are all Russian to judgement. If you  say so

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.20  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.18    4 weeks ago
I answered the question.

No, you just claimed to answer it.

Now the question changed in 1.2.14

More bullshit,   my second question was in response to you saying the DoJ is not completely honest.   It was rephrasing the first to mitigate your deflection.

You refuse to directly answer either question.    Who do you think is dumb enough to not see your blatant, repeated deflection?

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
1.2.21  Ender  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.16    4 weeks ago

What gets me is people blaming the DOJ for taking so long to do anything instead of placing the blame where it should be, on donald not complying.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.22  author  TᵢG  replied to  Ender @1.2.21    4 weeks ago

Never-ending deflection.

What I find amazing (and sickening) is the utterly pathetic 'arguments' made in defense of Trump.   And, worse, the refusal to acknowledge well-corroborated facts (e.g. holding classified documents) and the refusal to even acknowledge that Trump was wrong to hold classified documents at his residence.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.23  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.20    4 weeks ago
You refuse to directly answer either question.

All I did was give you an answer you wanted to hear.  Now you expect me to change that answer to stop your hissy fit.  You ask a question.  You got an answer.  Deal with it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.24  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.23    4 weeks ago

Do you think that Trump was NOT holding classified documents (some TS/SCI) in his residence and that the DoJ is lying when they state that he was?

When you see pictures of documents with TS/SCI markings on the floor of Trump’s residence, how do you compute those documents were not at his residence?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.25  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.24    4 weeks ago

I think you are blathering on and on with half assed information.  

When you see pictures of documents with TS/SCI markings on the floor of Trump’s residence, how do you compute those documents were not at his residence?

There is nothing indicated where the photo was taken so as far as we know it's in the FBI custodian's office.  All you have is word of mouth.  You know.  Legally that's called hearsay and generally not admissible.  So when you get that definitive proof, we'll talk.  The photo also shows the FBI is mishandling classified material.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.26  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.25    4 weeks ago
I think you are blathering on and on with half assed information.  

It is obvious (I am sure to everyone reading our exchanges) that you reject all evidence that goes against Trump.    It is a remarkable display of overt confirmation bias.   

The evidence (and legal statements) overwhelmingly demonstrate that Trump was holding classified documents (some TS/SCI) at his residence.    To not even recognize that reality is beyond irrational.

There is nothing indicated where the photo was taken so as far as we know it's in the FBI custodian's office. 

Un-fucking-believable.   Absurd conspiracy theory.   So do you think the FBI planted evidence?   Do you think some mass conspiracy is going on where everyone is in on the game and perfectly executing with no mistakes??

It is all a big hoax ... Trump was not holding classified documents in his residence???    

Do you also believe Trump is the legit PotUS and that the Big Lie is truth?

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
1.2.27  igknorantzrulz  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.25    4 weeks ago
There is nothing indicated where the photo was taken so as far as we know it's in the FBI custodian's office.  All you have is word of mouth.  You know.  Legally that's called hearsay and generally not admissible.  So when you get that definitive proof, we'll talk

If i recall correctly, Trump stated the photo was at Mar Lar Go, but i agree, we'd need a more credible source than that proven liar.

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.28  Ozzwald  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.25    4 weeks ago
There is nothing indicated where the photo was taken so as far as we know it's in the FBI custodian's office.

Trump, himself, stated they were taken in his office.  In fact in the same post on his "Truth Social" site, he admitted they were classified documents.

61907711-11164783-image-m-3_1661950995877.jpg

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.29  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.25    4 weeks ago
There is nothing indicated where the photo was taken so as far as we know it's in the FBI custodian's office.  All you have is word of mouth.  You know.  Legally that's called hearsay and generally not admissible.  So when you get that definitive proof, we'll talk.  The photo also shows the FBI is mishandling classified material.  

Do you that Trump would be making statements about those documents on the floor if he didn't recognize the fucking design on the rug? Trump stated:

There seems to be confusion as to the “picture” where documents were sloppily thrown on the floor and then released photographically for the world to see, as if that’s what the FBI found when they broke into my home. Wrong! They took them out of cartons and spread them around on the carpet, making it look like a big “find” for them. They dropped them, not me - Very deceiving…And remember, we could have NO representative, including lawyers, present during the Raid. They were told to wait outside.

Oh WAIT, I get it! The FBI went out and bought a piece of rug matching Trump's home just to take those pictures. Oh, and they framed a batch of time magazine front covers just for nuance. /s

Ya, that's the ticket Jeremy. 

Seriously, Trump ADMITTED this shit. Just stop.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.30  devangelical  replied to  Dulay @1.2.29    4 weeks ago

the defense of trump by his deluded followers reminds me of the saying - life is hard, being stupid makes it harder...

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
1.2.31  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.7    4 weeks ago
Do you think the DoJ is lying in this legal response?

Been done before !

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.32  author  TᵢG  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @1.2.31    4 weeks ago

Same basic deflection.   The likelihood that the DoJ has lied in the past does not answer the question of whether they are lying in this specific circumstance.

Do you think the DoJ is lying in this legal response?   If so, what is your reasoning and supporting evidence that makes you think the DoJ is lying that they found classified (some TS/SCI) documents at Trump's residence?

If they are lying, they are doing a masterful job at it.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.33  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2.28    4 weeks ago
Trump, himself, stated they were taken in his office. 

So NOW you beleive Trump is telling the truth?  Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.34  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  devangelical @1.2.30    4 weeks ago
the defense of trump by his deluded followers reminds me of the saying

Questioning the validity of the investigators who have already proven themselves to be partisan hacks isn't "defense of Trump". 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.35  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @1.2.29    4 weeks ago
Seriously, Trump ADMITTED this shit. Just stop.

So NOW you believe Trump is telling the truth?  Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

 
 
 
Ozzwald
Professor Quiet
1.2.36  Ozzwald  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.33    4 weeks ago

So NOW you beleive Trump is telling the truth?  Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

I am replying to you, and basically using your language. 

Trump said they were taken in his Mar-a-Lago office.

The FBI stated they were taken in Trump's Mar-a-Lago office.

Why would you then doubt it????  Everyone involved has admitted they were taken there.

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.37  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Ozzwald @1.2.36    4 weeks ago
I am replying to you

Then you should be answering my questions.  

and basically using your language. 

Why in the hell would I ask you what I would say?  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.38  author  TᵢG  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.35    4 weeks ago
So NOW you believe Trump is telling the truth?  Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

This takes the prize for blind sycophantic support of Trump.

You reject all evidence of Trump's wrongdoing ... demanding increasing levels of proof and refuse, with all extant evidence, to even admit that Trump has engaged in wrongdoing (far short of legal guilt).    In short, you reject everything that goes against Trump.

Now, you reject the only evidence one would expect you to acknowledge — an admission by Trump himself.

Now, you reject the only evidence one would expect you to acknowledge — an admission by Trump himself.

I need not point out how over-the-top absurd this is ... I am sure everyone reading your comments are already shaking their heads.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.39  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.35    4 weeks ago
So NOW you believe Trump is telling the truth? 

I believe that the DOJ will use his own words as evidence of intent. 

Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

No. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.40  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.38    4 weeks ago

That's a really long way to avoid answering a question.  

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.41  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @1.2.39    4 weeks ago

As expected, you half assed answered the question.  

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
1.2.42  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  TᵢG @1.2.32    4 weeks ago
Same basic deflection.

Yet you Deflect:

The likelihood that the DoJ has lied in the past does not answer the question of whether they are lying in this specific circumstance.

-----------------------------------

Do you think the DoJ is lying in this legal response?   

Won't know until "Later" ..... Will we !

"Trust" ....... is earned !

Distrust is not "Forgotten" until one earns "Trust" Back !

If so, what is your reasoning and supporting evidence that makes you think the DoJ is lying

The Not so distant Past.

I'll repeat : "Trust" ....... is earned ! - Distrust is not "Forgotten" until one earns "Trust" Back !

Deep Dive: How the FBI Lied to FISA Court & Schiff Pushed Lies on President Trump | Judicial Watch

The Senate impeachment trial, if anything, has once again shown the American people that “Schiff is lying about the President of the United States,” 

Judicial Watch has found more on the FISA Court “spy warrants,”, the FBI recently acknowledged were “garbage” and “lies” to gain the necessary authorizations to spy on President Trump, Carter Page and his team.

Clearly, the FBI’s documented penchant for corruptly misleading the court does little to maintain public confidence in the agency, the Mueller investigation, and the FISA Court itself. However, while the public debate may now shift to discussing the legitimacy of the court, the public cannot lose focus. Investigations must be focused on those “who lied for political reasons,” 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.43  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.41    4 weeks ago

Don't like my answer? 

Tough. 

 
 
 
Jeremy Retired in NC
PhD Guide
1.2.44  Jeremy Retired in NC  replied to  Dulay @1.2.43    4 weeks ago

There was no answer given.  You skated around a simple yes / no question.  Although I doubt you understand the question.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.2.45  Dulay  replied to  Jeremy Retired in NC @1.2.44    4 weeks ago
There was no answer given. 

That's not what you said in

You skated around a simple yes / no question. 

Again, don't like my answer? Tough. 

Although I doubt you understand the question.

My reply belies your doubt. 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
1.3  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1    4 weeks ago
A formal, legal response including a timeline for NARA attempting to get classified documents back from Trump's residence.

That formal response states that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was not about recovering government documents.  The explicit purpose of the raid was to seize evidence.  And the raid accomplished the stated purpose.

The timeline explicitly states that DOJ had existing evidence from prior collection of material and NARA review.  That prior evidence provided the basis for a criminal investigation and seeking a search warrant to seize more evidence.  The crime had already been established and the basis for an indictment had already been identified.  The ground work for an indictment had already been laid before the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago.

So, what's the hold up?  The search warrant allowed seizing evidence that is a 'smoking gun'.  Where's the indictment?  Why is Garland stalling?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.1  author  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3    4 weeks ago
So, what's the hold up?

What is the point of asking questions that nobody on this forum could possibly answer?   Nobody here has insider information into the DoJ.   

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
1.3.2  afrayedknot  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3    4 weeks ago

“The explicit purpose of the raid was to seize evidence.  And the raid accomplished the stated purpose.”

Within the constraints and judicial restraints of all jurisdictions. We are only a couple of weeks out…the process will take care of itself within those same outlined procedures.

As it should, especially in these ‘deep state’ would be conspiracy times. Not that that will allow far too many to accept the potential consequences. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.3.3  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3    4 weeks ago
That formal response states that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was not about recovering government documents. The explicit purpose of the raid was to seize evidence.  And the raid accomplished the stated purpose.

That is a misrepresentation of what the response states Nerm. 

Plaintiff states that “[t]here is no criminal enforcement mechanism or penalty” in the 
Presidential Records Act, and then suggests that DOJ may have “recognize[d] that deficiency, 
and then decide[d] to re-categorize this case as relating to national security materials[ ]simply 
to manufacture a basis to seek a search warrant” and may have “mischaracterize[d] the types 
of documents it sought.” D.E. 1 at 12. These accusations are belied by the statutes cited in the 
government’s search warrant, which make clear that this investigation is not simply about 
efforts to recover improperly retained Presidential records. Moreover, 18 U.S.C. § 2071 
criminalizes the concealment or removal of government records, including Presidential 
records.

The word SIMPLY, in the context of the DOJ response, means 'merely, just'. 

Why gaslight Nerm? 

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
1.3.4  Nerm_L  replied to  Dulay @1.3.3    4 weeks ago
The word SIMPLY, in the context of the DOJ response, means 'merely, just'.  Why gaslight Nerm? 

You've provided a robust confirmation of the correctness of my statement.  How can you confirm what I wrote and then accuse me of gaslighting?

Your red herring is beyond its 'best by' date; it stinks.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
1.3.5  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.1    4 weeks ago
What is the point of asking questions that nobody on this forum could possibly answer?   Nobody here has insider information into the DoJ. 

No doubt the independent, autocratic, and unaccountable bureaucracy deems questions by mere citizens to be inappropriate.  

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.6  author  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.5    4 weeks ago

You repeatedly ask this forum about the inner workings of the DoJ.    It gets old.   Nobody can answer the question so give it a rest.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
1.3.7  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.6    4 weeks ago
You repeatedly ask this forum about the inner workings of the DoJ.    It gets old.   Nobody can answer the question so give it a rest.

The DOJ can answer that question.  Merrick Garland can answer that question.  The silence is deafening.

What's the hold up?  Where's the indictment?  C'mon Garland, give us an answer.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.8  author  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.7    4 weeks ago
The DOJ can answer that question.  Merrick Garland can answer that question. 

Then ask them instead of asking this forum (or me).    It is pointless and obnoxious.

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
1.3.9  Nerm_L  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.8    4 weeks ago
Then ask them instead of asking this forum (or me).    It is pointless and obnoxious.

You've taken it upon yourself to speak for DOJ.  That is the point of posting the seed.  You've assumed the role of intermediary.  No one forced you to do that.

You've speculated on the intent of Trump based upon the evidence.  You've speculated on the nature of the crime Trump has committed.  You've defended the actions of the DOJ and FBI.  

Yet defending the failure of the DOJ and FBI to take tangible action is too far above your speculative abilities.  Or is it that my question ain't about Trump?

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.10  author  TᵢG  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.9    4 weeks ago
You've taken it upon yourself to speak for DOJ. 

Ridiculous.   I  provided an article which attaches a legal document and summarizes by quoting from same.

You asking me of the inner workings of the DoJ, repeatedly, is pointless and obnoxious.   Clearly I could only speculate.   So cease.

You've speculated on the intent of Trump based upon the evidence. 

I have stated facts.   The fact that Trump has asked that classified documents be returned to him is evidence that he was not cooperating.   Why he would ask for those documents back goes to intent and I have not speculated on his intent and sure as hell have not stated his intent.    More bullshit from you.

Yet defending the failure of the DOJ and FBI to take tangible action is too far above your speculative abilities.

I think speculation is pointless.   Asking me to speculate is pointless.   I follow the evidence and when questions remain I wait for more evidence.   That is a fair and proper way to operate.   Engaging in speculation and conspiracy theory is pointless and I have no respect for those who engage in it.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
1.3.11  afrayedknot  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.10    4 weeks ago

“I think speculation is pointless.”

When speculation is all that is left, it is but desperation…deflection and dismissal surely to follow. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.12  author  TᵢG  replied to  afrayedknot @1.3.11    4 weeks ago

Seems to me, Trump has encouraged his followers that it pays to keep lying to insist your alternate reality is truth.

 
 
 
afrayedknot
Freshman Quiet
1.3.13  afrayedknot  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.12    4 weeks ago

“that it pays to keep lying…”

If that is the case, and we are treading in uncharted waters here and thus the appropriate deliberations, the ramifications of not holding him responsible for his transgressions are truly frightening…for it opens the gates for a much smarter, much more sinister person to excuse it as precedent and pose an actual threat to our system of governance. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.3.14  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.4    4 weeks ago
You've provided a robust confirmation of the correctness of my statement. 

That's delusional. 

How can you confirm what I wrote and then accuse me of gaslighting?

You wrote:

That formal response states that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago was not about recovering government documents

That is FALSE. That FACT is proven when any thinking person READS the actual footnote, which I block quoted. 

Your red herring is beyond its 'best by' date; it stinks.

Obtuse. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
1.3.15  Dulay  replied to  Nerm_L @1.3.5    4 weeks ago

Speaking of red herrings...

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2  Trout Giggles    4 weeks ago

This summary is easy to understand. Thanks, TiG

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1  author  TᵢG  replied to  Trout Giggles @2    4 weeks ago

Yet it will not be allowed into the minds of some.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.1  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @2.1    4 weeks ago

... the simple minds of some...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.2  author  TᵢG  replied to  devangelical @2.1.1    4 weeks ago

Thing is, this is not mere stupidity ... it is blatant intellectual dishonesty to deny that Trump held classified records at his residence.   This is not stupidity but rather intellectual dishonesty ... and dishonesty that is over-the-top-obviously wrong.   

There are some who will defend Trump no matter how foolish they make themselves appear.   Just incredible.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.3  Trout Giggles  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

I wish there was a medication to cure this particular disease

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.4  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.2    4 weeks ago
There are some who will defend Trump no matter how foolish they make themselves appear.   Just incredible.

I find it extremely humorous how far some are willing to go. even FOX has signaled that it's time to abandon that ship.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
2.1.5  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @2.1.2    4 weeks ago

If these supposedly top secret materials were such a threat to national security, why did Biden's Brownshirts take 18 months to seize them?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.6  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    4 weeks ago

awww, didn't read the article, did you? too bad.

 
 
 
Trout Giggles
Professor Principal
2.1.7  Trout Giggles  replied to  devangelical @2.1.6    4 weeks ago

Don't you just love the people who comment on a seed and it's painfully obvious they didn't even bother to read it?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.8  devangelical  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.3    4 weeks ago
I wish there was a medication to cure this particular disease

you may have stumbled upon a solution to the fentanyl crisis....

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
2.1.9  author  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    4 weeks ago

MissingtheTarget-640x381.jpg

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
2.1.10  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Greg Jones @2.1.5    4 weeks ago
If these supposedly top secret materials were such a threat to national security, why did Biden's Brownshirts take 18 months to seize them?

They had to wait for the ........ Right Time ....... Just before the Midterms where Democrats were struggling, just before !

It's like "Perfect Timing" was shown in real time !

Pretty Obvious ......... to actual "Intelligent" people anyway.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.11  devangelical  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.10    4 weeks ago

there's a national election every 2 years. if trump had turned over federal property at the end of his term as required by law, instead of obstructing the process, this wouldn't have been an issue.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Freshman Principal
2.1.12  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  devangelical @2.1.11    4 weeks ago
this wouldn't have been an issue.

[deleted]

256

This is only a Uuuuuge Issue because Democrats need to win elections they think they'll loose, because all they have to run on is "But Trump" !

AND.......

..... The Media Needs "But Trump", to try and keep their ratings up higher than they've been since Joey Became President !

Nothing More, Nothing Less !

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
2.1.13  Tessylo  replied to  Trout Giggles @2.1.3    4 weeks ago

"I wish there was a medication to cure this particular disease"

Oh my god!  He was so damn sexy then.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3  Ender    4 weeks ago

Some people will still say it was rigged against donald.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.1  devangelical  replied to  Ender @3    4 weeks ago

yeah, the liberals planned this whole thing just to keep him from running again... /s

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.1.1  Ender  replied to  devangelical @3.1    4 weeks ago

The FBI is crooked doncha know...

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
4  evilgenius    4 weeks ago
F. ...Counsel for the Former President Provided a ... Certification that All Responsive Documents Were Produced Following a Diligent Search On June 3, 2022...

Oops.

...the FBI uncovered multiple sources of evidence indicating that the response to the May 11 grand jury subpoena was incomplete and that classified documents remained at the Premises, notwithstanding the sworn certification made to the government on June 3.
 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
4.1  devangelical  replied to  evilgenius @4    4 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure that the AG will start prosecuting from the bottom up and when those without financial resources are facing doing time and job loss, they will sing like songbirds. that additional evidence will be frosting on the cake of the solid legal case that has already been formed. although I believe the AG to be above partisan politics, the longer trump sweats, the more damage he'll do to the GOP.

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
4.1.1  evilgenius  replied to  devangelical @4.1    4 weeks ago

They don't call him Teflon Don for nothing... I'll wait for when the evening news shows defendant Donny in a court room before I get too excited. 

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
5  Kavika     4 weeks ago

Everyone knows that Trump declassified them so what in the world is the problem? /s

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
5.1  CB   replied to  Kavika @5    4 weeks ago

Evidently, the declassified versions are making multiple rounds in Trump's head.  /s  Why does this country suffer the indignity of this one man? Nobody is worth this much trouble!

This country has already forgotten that a man 'blasted' into a FBI office and ultimately gave the only life he had to a Donald J.Trump proffered lie that he had no classified documents belong to the archive at the time of visitation. That man is dead. He is not coming back. And it was all for a lie!

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6  devangelical    4 weeks ago

hot off the old interweb...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7  author  TᵢG    4 weeks ago

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7    4 weeks ago

I find it hilarious that Trump's lawyers cite the PRA and the NARA multiple times yet never mention the fact that Trump received a grand jury subpoena for the classified documents and defied it.

The NARA has NOTHING to do with the documents retrieved during the search warrant. They will not take receipt of the Presidential papers until the FBI/DOJ are done with them.

Despite Trump's claim in his response, the Archivist has taken NO actions in relation to the documents from the search. So, all their blather about the EO and the PRA is irrelevant and seem to be included as 'filler'. Oh and BTFW, that blather misrepresents the content of both. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.1  author  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @7.1    4 weeks ago

Excerpts like this are interesting tacit admissions that Trump was not cooperating:

But the Government reads into the Presidential Records Act an enforcement provision that does not exist;  the law exhorts a former President to interface with the Archivist to ensure the preservation of Presidential records, but it does not oblige the former President to take any particular steps with respect to those records.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.2  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.1    4 weeks ago
Excerpts like this are interesting tacit admissions that Trump was not cooperating:
It is also a LIE: 

44 U.S. Code § 2203 - Management and custody of Presidential records

(a) Through the implementation of records management controls and other necessary actions, the President shall take all such steps as may be necessary to assure that the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance of the President’s constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties are adequately documented and that such records are preserved and maintained as  Presidential records  pursuant to the requirements of this section and other provisions of law.
(b) Documentary materials  produced or received by the President, the President’s staff, or units or individuals in the  Executive Office of the President  the function of which is to advise or assist the President, shall, to the extent practicable, be categorized as  Presidential records  or  personal records  upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.
There is no credible excuse for Trump's lawyers to attempt to relinquish Trump of his responsibility to follow the PRA. 
 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.3  author  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @7.1.2    4 weeks ago

Well think like Trump.   He will argue he was taking necessary steps.   Since no timeline is stated (appropriately) Trump will use that as wiggle room.

Trump is bound by the PRA but he will use every bit of vagueness in the language to stall and deflect.   Kind of how many of his supporters operate; like demanding to see a list of each documents taken rather than accept the known fact that classified (some TS/SCI) documents were indeed at Trump's residence.   And if they had a list they would then demand the actual documents.   

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
7.1.4  evilgenius  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.3    4 weeks ago
...he will use every bit of vagueness in the language to stall and deflect.

That is exactly what defense lawyers always do when they have guilty clients. I'm honestly surprised they didn't try to push "declassified" and "executive privilege" arguments. They would have lost those arguments, but I am surprised they didn't throw all the spaghetti at the wall. Trump used them himself so I assumed his lapdogs... er sorry... lawyers would as well. 

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.5  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.3    4 weeks ago
Well think like Trump.   

That would require a lobotomy. 

He will argue he  was taking necessary steps. 

He could argue that the dog ate them if he had a dog...jrSmiley_82_smiley_image.gif

 Since no timeline is stated ( appropriately ) Trump will use that as wiggle room.

The timeline is cited in section (g) of that US Code:

(1) Upon the conclusion of a President’s term of office , or if a President serves consecutive terms upon the conclusion of the last term, the  Archivist  of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the  Presidential records  of that President. 

So, at the moment that Biden was sworn in, Trump must relinquish all of the documents to the Archivist of the US and they become the property of the US government. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.6  author  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @7.1.5    4 weeks ago
So, at the moment that Biden was sworn in, Trump must relinquish all of the documents to the Archivist of the US and they become the property of the US government. 

That is true, but the argument will be that Trump was cooperating in the return and since there is no time limit on cooperation they have wiggle room.   If Trump is shown to NOT be cooperating (and it is clear that he was not cooperating) then holding classified records and NOT cooperating in their return is criminal.   The only thing Trump can offer, ultimately, is that he was cooperating (unless, by some magic, someone discovers formal records of declassification that took place while Trump was in office).

Note, I do not see Trump offering a credible defense.    He has no grounds ... he is dead wrong.    What I am saying is that he will of course use slimy tactics he and his attorneys dream up based on vague language and absurd semantic games.

 
 
 
evilgenius
PhD Guide
7.1.7  evilgenius  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    4 weeks ago
...the argument will be that Trump was cooperating in the return and since there is no time limit on cooperation they have wiggle room. 

That argument has already been countered with by the DoJ with the statement they received a Certification that All Responsive Documents Were Produced. At that point they are no longer cooperating and instead committing a crime to cover another crime.

We will see which argument the Court buys.

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States or any case filed under title 11, or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.8  CB   replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    4 weeks ago

And out right lying if he can get. . . people. . . to appease him (as he has been doing all along). He just tells the lie/s and "people" give him the plausible deniability willingly.

DOJ response to Trump special master: [Page 14  second paragraph]: Plantiff has no property interest in any Presidential records (including classified records) seized from the Premises. The Presidential Records Act provides—under a heading entitled "Ownership of Presidential records"—that "[t]he United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records." 44 U.S.C. § 2202; . . . and Presidential Records include any "documentary materials" that were "created and received by the President, The President's immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President" while "conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President." 44 U.S.C. § 2201(2).

Technically, somebody in Trump 'world' should have known this statute before removing, transiting, holding, and 'squirreling away' government secrets! There is no excuse, permissible.

The law has been violated—severely.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.9  CB   replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    4 weeks ago
 author  friend  TᵢG  replied to  Dulay @7.1.5    an hour ago
So, at the moment that Biden was sworn in, Trump must relinquish all of the documents to the Archivist of the US and they become the property of the US government. 

That is true, but the argument will be that Trump was cooperating in the return and since there is no time limit on cooperation they have wiggle room.

The issue for Trump's. . . discretionary view of time is it was 'capped' when a Trump lawyers signed documentation that all classified documents had been turned over in June or July 2022. (They were not!) It establishes an attempt was made to deceive the government officially.

And if said lawyer/s signed with full understanding of the power of a signature; without understanding that Trump had additional quantities of classified materials in his possession: God help him!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.1.10  author  TᵢG  replied to  CB @7.1.9    4 weeks ago

The evidence all points to Trump holding classified documents and not cooperating on their return.   The case seems cut-and-dried to me.   But one never knows how politics will influence the process and if it goes to trial, juries are not necessarily predictable.

At this point, I would much prefer to be on the prosecution and not the defense.

 
 
 
CB
Professor Principal
7.1.11  CB   replied to  TᵢG @7.1.10    4 weeks ago

This 'pussyfooting' around with a demonic spirited man who clearly loves the exacerbation (and pulling the 'choke' on the necks of government entities) jumped the shark on January 6, 2021! I don't mean to "convulse" that period up again, but—the man is out of office since January 20, 2021. He is not a 'nice' ex-president. Therefore, it is time to treat him like the political troll he is without the benefit of indulging! Don't try to placate him. Just my opinion.

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
7.1.12  Dulay  replied to  TᵢG @7.1.6    4 weeks ago

That's two different tranches of documents. 

The federal grand jury subpoena was about documents marked classified and the PRA is about Presidential Records.

The fact that documents marked classified were found at MAL proves that Trump failed to 'comply' with the subpoena. That, in and of itself is a federal crime. Per the attachments with the DOJ response, Trump's lawyers KNEW that they would be required to provide a signed confirmation that all responsive documents were turned over. So, they had weeks to do ANOTHER 'diligent' search.

The only thing these lawyers can claim is that they 'overlooked' the classified shit in the storage locker and Trump lied to them about the shit in his office. Either way, they are done as lawyers. 

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
8  Greg Jones    4 weeks ago

It's funny how these emo-leftists get so worked up over nothing. The never ending faux outrage goes on and on.

This Mar-o-Lago saga was a political stunt from the get go. And it has failed miserably.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1  author  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @8    4 weeks ago

Do you acknowledge that Trump was holding classified documents (some at TS/SCI level) at his residence?

Seems to me that you have elsewhere acknowledged that and have stipulated that Trump was wrong to do that.   Did I misread your position?

This 'debate' continues because there are Trump sycophants who will not even acknowledge that Trump has done wrong.   Some will not even acknowledge that Trump was holding classified documents.   

 
 
 
Dulay
Professor Principal
8.2  Dulay  replied to  Greg Jones @8    4 weeks ago

What color is the sky on the planet you live on? 

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
8.2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Dulay @8.2    4 weeks ago
What color is the sky on the planet you live on? 

Idle curiosity? 

 
 
 
Freewill
Junior Participates
9  Freewill    3 weeks ago

320

Oh shit!  Maybe he did order the Code Red!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
9.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Freewill @9    3 weeks ago

Colonel Jessup ordered the Code Red.  Can you handle the god damn truth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa80_sKNgM4

 
 
 
Freewill
Junior Participates
9.1.1  Freewill  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @9.1    3 weeks ago
Can you handle the god damn truth?

Why yes, I most certainly can.

 
 

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