Democrats Can't Count on Trump in 2024

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  vic-eldred  •  2 weeks ago  •  130 comments

By:   Ruy Teixeira (WSJ)

Democrats Can't Count on Trump in 2024
They're in trouble if GOP voters respond to the midterms by wising up and shunning his craziness.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



We're still waiting for the final results of the 2022 election. But it's clear that Democrats decisively beat both expectations and the elections's "fundamentals"—the incumbent party's usual midterm losses, President Biden's low approval rating, high inflation, voter negativity on the economy and the state of the country. Republicans look set to take back the House but only by a modest margin. And the Senate will remain in Democratic hands, albeit narrowly.

The Democrats' relatively good night is attributable, above all, to their secret weapon: Donald Trump. Mr. Trump's ability to push Republican voters into picking bad, frequently incompetent candidates with extreme positions on issues from the 2020 election to abortion was a disaster for Republicans.

They know it. Scott Jennings, a former deputy to Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, tweeted: “How could you look at these results tonight and conclude Trump has any chance of winning a national election in 2024?” Chris Christie, the Republican former New Jersey governor, noted: “We lost in ’18. We lost in ’20. We lost in ’21 in Georgia. And now in ’22 we’re going to net lose governorships. . . . There’s only one person to blame for that, and that’s Donald Trump.” Mike Lawler, a newly elected Republican congressman from New York, suggested the party needed to “move forward” from Mr. Trump.

This rising chorus will create some pressure for change within the GOP. Where might they turn? This election provides an obvious model, which could present a big challenge for Democrats. Call it their Ron DeSantis problem.

In Florida’s gubernatorial election, Mr. DeSantis absolutely crushed his Democratic opponent, Charlie Crist, beating him by 19 points. This landslide included carrying Hispanic voters by 13 points and working-class (noncollege) voters by 27 points. Democrats nationally have been bleeding support from both these voter groups. Since 2018 the Democratic advantage has declined by 18 points among Hispanics, by 17 points among working-class voters and by 23 points among nonwhite working-class voters.

The geographic pattern of results in Florida underscores Mr. DeSantis’s strength. He carried heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade county, historically the Democrats’ firewall, by 11 points. He carried Osceola County by almost 7 points—a county where Puerto Ricans, among the most Democratic of Hispanic subgroups, loom large.

Democrats assumed that Mr. DeSantis’s flying migrants to Martha’s Vineyard would disqualify him among Hispanic voters. Evidently not. They also assumed that his sponsorship of a law prohibiting instruction in gender ideology for K-3 children would hurt him politically. Wrong again.

How does Mr. DeSantis do it? By being a smart, disciplined politician who knows how to pick his fights and has a strong sense of public opinion, particularly working-class opinion. I believe his combination of traits—Mr. Trump’s greatest strength, without his greatest weakness—could give the Democrats fits. He would be able to attack them on crime, immigration, race essentialism, gender ideology, inflation and energy prices without presenting the easy target provided by Mr. Trump and his acolytes’ extreme ideas.





Democrats, truth be told, are now in a weird codependent relationship with Mr. Trump. They know—and they are correct in thinking this—that the craziness associated with him is their most effective point of attack against the Republican Party and its candidates. Mr. Trump, of course, loves being the center of controversy.





But this codependent relationship makes the Democrats lazy. Instead of taking stock of their weaknesses and seeking to overcome them, they go back to the well on the evils of Mr. Trump, his nefarious supporters and their election denialism.

Meanwhile, the weaknesses remain. In a pre-election poll conducted by Impact Research for Third Way, respondents preferred Republicans over Democrats by 18 points on the economy and inflation and by 20 points or more on crime and immigration. The poll also found slightly more voters regarded the Democratic Party as “too extreme” (55%) than felt that way about the Republican Party (54%).

These election results seem unlikely to provoke the kind of introspection Democrats need to correct these vulnerabilities, especially among working-class and Hispanic voters. Mr. Biden, cheered on by the left, has already announced that he will do “nothing” differently. This puts them in an exceptionally poor position to address the DeSantis problem. What if 2024 arrives and they no longer have Donald Trump to kick around?

To compound the problem, Democrats are staring down the barrel of an unfavorable Senate map in 2024. Democrats will be defending 23 of the 33 seats in play. Holding those Democratic seats will mean winning in a raft of red and purple states: Arizona, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Wisconsin and West Virginia. The Republican seats that will be up are all in solid GOP states, with the possible exceptions of Texas and Florida (and we saw what just happened there).

Imagine a DeSantis ticket, accompanied by saner, more competent Senate candidates. Are the Democrats prepared for that? I think not. But instead of addressing the problem—or even admitting it exists—they’re counting on Mr. Trump to bail them out. This seems exceptionally foolish. It’s also morally reprehensible: They’re trading a better chance of winning for the possibility that Mr. Trump might become president again.

Mr. Teixeira is a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a co-editor of the Liberal Patriot, a Substack newsletter.


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Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1  seeder  Vic Eldred    2 weeks ago


Many are trying to understand the meaning of last week's election results.


According to Mr Teixeira, Donald Trump is more toxic than recession, inflation' lawlessness and open borders.


If that is true, America is in serious trouble.

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
1.1  evilgenius  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago

While Trump has been a toxic piece of trash since he took his first breath, the entirety of the GOP losses in the midterms is not all on Trump. It's an indictment on the whole anti-abortion, pro Evangelical national identity politics of the right wing movement. Trump is but a symptom, and not the cause. If DeSantis becomes it's new standard bearer it will still suck. It will still rally voters to the polls in opposition. 

To think Nixon's policies would look Progressive today... (smh)

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
1.1.1  Sean Treacy  replied to  evilgenius @1.1    2 weeks ago

To think Nixon's policies would look Progressive

on that, we certainly agree. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago
According to Mr Teixeira, Donald Trump is more toxic than recession, inflation' lawlessness and open borders.If that is true, America is in serious trouble.

Which is what some of us have been stating for a very long time now.    Trump is a parasite on the GoP.    Yet the GoP, inexplicably, not only refused to remove the Trump parasite (especially after it revealed itself in a grand fashion via the Big Lie campaign) but it doubled down on its support of Trump.    It compromised its historical integrity because of perceived short-term political benefits.

Our nation is in serious trouble because a large minority of its voters are willing to elect a malignant narcissist and pathological liar like Trump to the presidency.

It is a sign of healing that the voters have started to move away from this insane Trump support.    ( Trump is not the only reason for the mediocre performance of the GoP but he most certainly is one of the major factors.    Maybe people are starting to comprehend that a 2020 election denier / Trump praiser is probably not a good choice for a representative. )   

The failure to achieve a red wave is good for the GoP because it needed something to trigger removing the Trump parasite and doing some very serious healing.   And if the GoP can actually provide competition for the Democrats then that should encourage the Ds to put forth better, serious candidates.    In result, this failure of the GoP to perform is ultimately good for the nation.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.2.1  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @1.2    2 weeks ago

GOP history is repeating itself. trump is spiro agnew 2.0, personified. in word and in deed...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.2.2  TᵢG  replied to  devangelical @1.2.1    2 weeks ago

Okay, but you are really tarnishing the soiled reputation of Agnew by equating him with Trump.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.2.3  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @1.2.1    2 weeks ago
GOP history is repeating itself. trump is spiro agnew 2.0, personified. in word and in deed..

jrSmiley_78_smiley_image.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.3  Jack_TX  replied to  Vic Eldred @1    2 weeks ago
Many are trying to understand the meaning of last week's election results.

I dunno.  I thought they were pretty obvious.

According to Mr Teixeira, Donald Trump is more toxic than recession, inflation' lawlessness and open borders.  If that is true, America is in serious trouble.

He is, and that's not an indication that we're in serious trouble.  It just means that the majority of Americans understand we can solve those problems without a complete jackass in the WH.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3    2 weeks ago
He is, and that's not an indication that we're in serious trouble. 

I'm afraid it is. Who puts ideology over the wellbeing of their families or their own self interest?

 
 
 
evilgenius
Professor Guide
1.3.2  evilgenius  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.1    2 weeks ago
Who puts ideology over the wellbeing of their families or their own self interest?

Right wing populists.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
1.3.3  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  evilgenius @1.3.2    2 weeks ago

More projection.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.4  TᵢG  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.1    2 weeks ago
Who puts ideology over the wellbeing of their families or their own self interest?

Extant Trump supporters are the epitome of this.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
1.3.5  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @1.3.4    2 weeks ago

... and it continues.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.3.6  Jack_TX  replied to  Vic Eldred @1.3.1    2 weeks ago
I'm afraid it is. Who puts ideology over the wellbeing of their families or their own self interest?

Political extremists.  But they're also the people who panic and say daft shit about a president being a threat to the country like he's some sort of Roman Emporer or something.  You wonder how many of these people understand we have a Constitution. 

Sane, regular Americans recognize that there is absolutely nothing happening today that we haven't overcome a much worse version of in the recent past.  Inflation has been MUCH worse, the border has been much more open, and crime has been far higher. They didn't believe the bullshit about the sky falling from 2016-2020, and they don't believe it now.

Those same regular Americans who recognized Hillary as the 2nd worst presidential candidate in a century (behind only Joe Exotic) also recognize the candidates most closely tied to Trump are utter fucking morons with 50 brain cells between them.  But apparently that's preferred in Georgia for some reason, as Hank Thompson continues to demonstrate.

Had Trump not been such a complete failure, control of congress would have been split in 2020.  That has been rectified, which was all Republicans could have achieved anyway.

So we're all ready to move on from Trump.  Except the morons.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.7  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.6    2 weeks ago
"But they're also the people who panic and say daft shit about a (former) president being a threat to the country like he's some sort of Roman Emporer or something." 

He and his supporters/enablers are.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
1.3.8  Texan1211  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.6    2 weeks ago
But they're also the people who panic and say daft shit about a president being a threat to the country like he's some sort of Roman Emporer or something.  You wonder how many of these people understand we have a Constitution. 

IF Trump and his supporters were half the problem that crazy Democrats have declared them to be, the country would now be under their rule, but strangely enough, elections were held and (gasp) Democrats somehow managed to get the vote out despite histrionic claims of voter suppression. Now, why would such dangers to democracy be losing elections Democrats said were tainted?

Looks like the Constitution and the country will somehow survive the lies.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.3.9  Jack_TX  replied to  evilgenius @1.3.2    2 weeks ago
Right wing populists.

When you allow your 2-year-old to "decide their own gender", you've officially put your ideology ahead of the well-being of your family.

Those people aren't right-wingers.

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
1.3.10  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.9    2 weeks ago

No one is allowing two year olds to decide their own gender.  

 
 
 
Diablo Imperius
Professor Participates
1.3.12  Diablo Imperius  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3    2 weeks ago

Well of course we're in serious trouble.  Anybody paying any kind of attention understands that.  We're staring down a real life Idiocracy at this point.  The signs are everywhere.  I had a guy tell me he'd rather jerk off to images of Lizzo than see another Trump presidency. Now that may even be considered mental illness.

Relatively few support Trump's overall demeanor, but either way his policies are vastly superior to anything the dems are offering.  Ignoring that essential truth is the definition of serious trouble.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
1.3.13  Jack_TX  replied to  Diablo Imperius @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
Well of course we're in serious trouble.

OK Henny Penny.  The sky is falling. Riiiiight.

We're staring down a real life Idiocracy at this point. 

At this point???   Where exactly have you been keeping yourself that you believe this is a new development?  And where exactly were you educated that you believe Trump was somehow a deviation from the pattern?

Ignoring that essential truth

The "essential truth" in question was whether or not we're "in serious trouble".

Rational people understand that we're not doing anything now we haven't done before.  We came through it then, and we'll do so again.  

 
 
 
Diablo Imperius
Professor Participates
1.3.14  Diablo Imperius  replied to  Jack_TX @1.3.13    2 weeks ago

I’m well aware that you don’t comprehend  it, you didn’t have to be Captain obvious about it.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
1.3.15  TᵢG  replied to  Diablo Imperius @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
Relatively few support Trump's overall demeanor, but either way his policies are vastly superior to anything the dems are offering.  Ignoring that essential truth is the definition of serious trouble.

That reasoning is so stupid;  it is amazing that people keep repeating it.

Trump's policies were red meat GoP policies.   You do not need Trump to offer his policies.   Want the solution to have Trump policies (as much as Trump executed them) without Trump?   Push Trump aside and nominate a genuine GoP candidate.   

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
1.3.16  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Diablo Imperius @1.3.12    2 weeks ago
I had a guy tell me he'd rather jerk off to images of Lizzo than see another Trump presidency.

It's touching to see how close you get to your clients. 

 
 
 
Diablo Imperius
Professor Participates
1.3.17  Diablo Imperius  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @1.3.16    2 weeks ago

I think you may have Drank too much Rye.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2  JBB    2 weeks ago

Thus ascendant Democrats can safely bet the Trumpian goppers will double down on a loser...

The economy is growing, inflation playing out, employment booming and the stock market is up. Trump pulled out all the stops to stimulate the economy during good times making it impossible to do very much when the bills came due for the gop's irresponsible tax cuts and big spending.

By 2024 the US economy will recover from Trump's and the gop's shameful economic mismanagement.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
2.1  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @2    2 weeks ago
The economy is growing,

too be followed by a mild recession in 2023-24

inflation playing out,

Yet the Fed will continue to raise interest rates

employment booming

In part due to a low labor participation rate rate, especially of middle aged men

and the stock market is up.

Compared to when?

Trump pulled out all the stops to stimulate the economy during good times making it impossible to do very much when the bills came due for the gop's irresponsible tax cuts and big spending.

So it’s not a global thing or corporate greed after all.

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
2.2  squiggy  replied to  JBB @2    2 weeks ago
tax cuts and big spending.

I see your easy fix there.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
2.3  Ronin2  replied to  JBB @2    2 weeks ago
Thus ascendant Democrats can safely bet the Trumpian goppers will double down on a loser...

Says the people that elected Brandon the Human Fuck Up Machine and kept the [ [deleted[ ] in power.

The economy is growing,

Despite every road block the Democrats are putting in the way of it. There are several hurdles for Brandon and the [ {deleted} ] to trip over- many of their own making.

  • Railroad workers union strike is all but inevitable. Seems Union workers are holding out for Brandon to give them what the UAW offer on the with the Auto companies bailout. They want to own the railroads. They go on strike and the Human Fuck Up Machine and Democrats won't know what hit them.
  • US is running out of diesel fuel; and Brandon and the Fascists have no plan other than blame oil and gas companies. That won't stop the US from running out. 
  • US strategic oil reserve is the lowest it has been since 1984. Democrats not losing at midterms was more important than the safety of the US. The bill is coming due and every last barrel of oil will need to be replaced. Gas and oil prices will sky rocket just in time for winter!
  • Most states don't have enough energy to cope with winter thanks to Brandon and the Fascist Democrats anti fossil fuel energy strategy.  
  • US housing market is collapsing.  
inflation playing out

Better tell the Fed because more interest hikes are coming since Brandon and the [ {deleted} ] can't do anything but spend money. 

With today’s rate increase, the benchmark federal funds rate is a range of 3.75% to 4%. Rates are expected to peak at 4.5% to 4.75% in 2023, according to the U.S. central bank’s own projections

Last week, Goldman Sachs economists said they expected the Fed to lift its benchmark rate even higher , to a range of 4.75% to 5% by March 2023. 

That means the costs of borrowing will continue to get more expensive, as more rate hikes are likely to follow.

Fuck the little people. We aren't smart enough to have money already we should have to pay more to get a loan.

employment booming and the stock market is up.

Yet so many open jobs? Why is that? Especially with so many new immigrants (legal and illegal) in the country. As for the market, well it is fucked as much as everything else Brandon is associated with.

The [ S&P ] 500 has lost value during President Biden's term, whereas it was in positive territory at this point in the terms of former Presidents Trump and Obama.

By the numbers: The [ S&P ] 500 is down 5.6% between the last market close before Biden's inauguration and this past Friday's market close.

  • The Dow Jones Industrial Average is off 4.19% over the same period, while the tech-heavy Nasdaq has shed 21.4%.

Only Democrats can turn being a loser into a winner; and think losses are gains.

Trump pulled out all the stops to stimulate the economy during good times making it impossible to do very much when the bills came due for the gop's irresponsible tax cuts and big spending.

Irresponsible? Tax revenue went up. Which proves Democrats are idiots when it comes to taxing. As for big spending- who the fuck are you talking to!

By 2024 the US economy will recover from Trump's and the gop's shameful economic mismanagement.

By 2024 we will be in the Brandon and [ {deleted} ] recession; and looking to expunge all Democrats from power.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
2.3.1  Jack_TX  replied to  Ronin2 @2.3    2 weeks ago

You are arguing facts against feelings.

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3  JohnRussell    2 weeks ago

This article is what is known as putting lipstick on a pig. 

Its humorous to see the writer call Trump the Democrats problem. He actually is Ron DeSantis' problem. It is highly unlikely DeSantis will make Trump irrelevant , especially when Trump is pounding on him every day. 

I have ZERO, let me repeat, zero, expectation that the MAGA voters will turn their back on Trump to any great degree. 

But DeSantis is problematic as a candidate even without considering Trump banging on him. He is an unknown as a national politician. He is an average speaker in political terms. He is a dull interview, so his success will ride entirely on his "policies". It is far far far from a sure thing that the country will embrace his anti-gay, anti- teacher , pro- Christian nationalist beliefs.  

 
 
 
igknorantzrulz
PhD Quiet
3.1  igknorantzrulz  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago

He’s just a more polished less divisive potential replacement to the Dereliction of Duty himself, the mental midget cult chored to paint the damn Dems as the adorable Deplorable s, hit in back with the frontal assault attempting to once again grab em by the pussies, cause that’s the Dawg I see them running, and we will soon learn if we as a hole, have learned since that pol, left US looking like the latest Shit hole, Country of Thee, and Thy, via lie lie lie

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago
It is far far far from a sure thing that the country will embrace his anti-gay, anti- teacher , pro- Christian nationalist beliefs.  

Anti-Woke, you meam.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2.1  JBB  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

So, attack school teachers and slander old men attacked with hammers. Ban books and pledge to break up unconventional families. Call moderate Democrats "Radical Leftist". Stay the same. Don't change a thing. It is working! Stay Angry! Accept no responsibility and blame everything on Biden. Thank you in advance for your services to The Democratic Party! We need the gop to keep exposing its ugly disgusting underbelly to beat you, again!

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    2 weeks ago

th?id=OIP.56EWL38ewfDEqsBBMsj44gHaD-&pid=Api&P=0

 
 
 
squiggy
Junior Quiet
3.2.3  squiggy  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    2 weeks ago
So, attack school teachers

You were the one favoring illegal action against Peer, yesterday.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.2.4  Jack_TX  replied to  JBB @3.2.1    2 weeks ago
Call moderate Democrats "Radical Leftist".

Which "moderate Democrat" are we talking about?

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.2.5  JBB  replied to  Jack_TX @3.2.4    2 weeks ago

Biden, Harris, Schumer and Pelosi are 4...

 
 
 
MrFrost
Professor Principal
3.2.6  MrFrost  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.2    2 weeks ago

Anti-Woke, you meam.

Woke simply means aware... [deleted]

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.2.7  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.6    2 weeks ago

"Then in 2013 and 2014, after Florida man George Zimmerman was  acquitted  in Trayvon Martin’s slaying and the police-involved death of  Michael Brown  in Ferguson, Mo., a wave of Black Lives Matter activism emerged around the country. The phrase went from Twitter hashtag to rallying cry.

"The word woke became entwined with the  Black Lives Matter  movement; instead of just being a word that signaled awareness of injustice or racial tension, it became a word of action," according to Merriam-Webster. "Activists were woke and called on others to stay woke."



[ deleted ]

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.2.8  Tessylo  replied to  MrFrost @3.2.6    2 weeks ago

Exactly - up is down in their 'world'

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago
I have ZERO, let me repeat, zero, expectation that the MAGA voters will turn their back on Trump to any great degree. 

I expect a reduction in MAGA support.   The hard-core MAGA will continue with their cult-like support of Trump but they will lose outer layers of that onion.   How much of a reduction remains to be seen but it is not going to be zero.

DeSantis' policies will appeal to the typical GoP voter.   The question, of course, is how much of the independent vote he will get.   That depends on the D candidate.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.1  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @3.3    2 weeks ago
I expect a reduction in MAGA support.

a good percentage of them already have one foot in the grave from what I've observed...

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.2  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @3.3.1    2 weeks ago

Some of us were born with feet on both sides of the fence....


th?id=OIP.fM6m_a5YkTnb-bWlHZmqhgHaD-&pid=Api&P=0

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
3.3.3  devangelical  replied to  Vic Eldred @3.3.2    2 weeks ago
Some of us were born with feet on both sides of the fence....

oh please elaborate, as a former trump supporter, do those pickets provide a familiar feel and sensation?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
3.3.4  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  devangelical @3.3.3    2 weeks ago

You would had to have seen "The Killer Inside Me."

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.3.6  JohnRussell  replied to  TᵢG @3.3    2 weeks ago
DeSantis' policies will appeal to the typical GoP voter. 

Trumps policies appealed to the typical GOP voter. 

There is more to fitness for office than that. DeSantis has been an extremist and that will be held against him. 

 
 
 
Sean Treacy
Professor Expert
3.3.7  Sean Treacy  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.6    2 weeks ago
. DeSantis has been an extremist

It's a little early for the DeSantis is worse than Trump line, isn't it?  Usually, Democrats wait until a new nominee is selected before canonizing the predecessor. 

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
3.3.8  Gazoo  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.6    2 weeks ago

Energy independence, low energy costs, a secure border, a strong military, fair trade deals, holding our “allies” responsible for paying their fair share, bringing American jobs back, etc., those are what the typical gop voter goes for? I’d say anybody with a brain would go for that
I suppose the current shit show brought to us by the dems are what appeals to the typical dem voter.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
3.3.9  GregTx  replied to  Sean Treacy @3.3.7    2 weeks ago

Why wait? Get it out there and let some sunshine on it......

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.3.10  Ender  replied to  Gazoo @3.3.8    2 weeks ago

Oil is traded on a global market.

Who wouldn't want lower energy costs. Not much can be done unless you want the government to subsidize the sector.

The border hasn't been 'secure' in over a hundred years, if not longer, come to think of it, I don't think it has ever been.

Who said our military isn't strong...

Fair trade deals...Like putting tariffs on things and making them more expensive for the consumer...

Our allies started 'paying more' under Obama.

Jobs...I guess we can thank Biden for getting chip manufacturing plants here in the US...

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.3.11  TᵢG  replied to  JohnRussell @3.3.6    2 weeks ago
There is more to fitness for office than that. DeSantis has been an extremist and that will be held against him. 

Policy comparisons are quite valid.   

However, I hope you do not begin comparing Trump to DeSantis in terms of character, etc.   There is no comparison between the level of malignant narcissism,  pathological lying, and arguably irrational / unpatriotic behavior of Trump with that of DeSantis.  DeSantis has the typical pandering / dishonesty that one would expect of a career politician, but that does not even remotely compare to Trump's.

Although I am not pleased with many of DeSantis' views, etc. and I would prefer someone like Condoleezza Rice, DeSantis fits the description of 'halfway-decent human being' that I have suggested for years that the GoP support as their leader.

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
3.3.12  Gazoo  replied to  Ender @3.3.10    2 weeks ago

Trump’s approach to energy is far better than biden’s surely you can see the difference, or maybe not. 
 
if trump had his way our border would be extremely secure. Surely you can see the difference between the two different approaches, well, maybe not.

our military has always been strong, but some presidents rebuild what other presidents let lapse. I don’t expect you to see that difference.

as far as tariffs, you have to start somewhere and at the start there will always be resistance from the party taking advantage. But i see that some would rather just pull their pants down and bend over, the status quo, than actually doing something about it.

but they still weren’t paying their fair share. “Don’t worry nato, my people will cover your costs” isn’t good enough for me. It is for some i suppose.

a chip factory, that’s a good thing but it won’t be ready for a few years. And it wouldn’t even have been talked about by biden without the chip shortage. His predecessor was obsessed with getting jobs back to the USA. The America last crowd, not so much.

trump’s policies are far and away better than biden’s. If you can’t see that, well, nm, if i finished that thought it would’ve shattered the coc in a million pieces.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.3.13  Ender  replied to  Gazoo @3.3.12    2 weeks ago

We get it. You love trump and he could do no wrong.

What was trump's energy policy, drill baby drill and deregulation?

Hahaha   trump would have a secure border.....Hahaha

What did trump do to 'rebuild' the military...

I see you would rather pay a higher price and play games.

They still are not 'paying their fair share'...

So you are going to dismiss Biden getting chip manufacturing and praise trump then blame others for not being patriotic enough in your eyes....

 
 
 
Gazoo
Sophomore Silent
3.3.14  Gazoo  replied to  Ender @3.3.13    2 weeks ago

You don’t know jack shit, son.

yep, you got it. And guess what? It worked. Only a stupid piece of shit would deny trump’s energy policies were far far better than the senile one.

Yep again. if the fucktard libs  and establishment repubs had cooperated we’d have a wall between us and the shithole to our south. But hey, drug cartels and human traffickers/smugglers really appreciate dems and their braindead followers for their border policy.

you have to start somewhere. And of course the recipients of our shitty trade deals will resist. Once they realize their new reality they will come around. But hey, i guess some like getting fucked in the ass.

of course not. Why should they now that dementia boy is in office?

not dismissing the chip plant but if there weren’t a shortage biden never would have done this. The US is a large country, not a small town, we need more jobs than just a chip plant. Your comments on this comes across as “whelp, we gots a chip plant and thats awl wee nede. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee everthang is unikornes and ranebows now.” Why isn’t he pressing for more jobs to come back? As far as your patriotic comment, i guess if it makes you feel better to make shit up, go for it.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
3.3.15  Ender  replied to  Gazoo @3.3.14    2 weeks ago

I know a lot more than dipshit trumpers.

But do drone on.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @3    2 weeks ago
I have ZERO, let me repeat, zero, expectation that the MAGA voters will turn their back on Trump to any great degree. 

We know.  We know.

And the number of MAGA supporters on this very site who have publicly changed their allegiance doesn't give you any pause?  No.  I guess not.  

The fact that election results prove that his influence has been steadily declining for at least 4 years doesn't register at all with you, does it? No.  I guess not.  

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.4.1  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4    2 weeks ago
And the number of MAGA supporters on this very site who have publicly changed their allegiance doesn't give you any pause?  No.  I guess not.  

What makes you think that anyone on this site has changed their allegiance? 

Does that sound like someone who is ready to change? 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.2  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4    2 weeks ago
And the number of MAGA supporters on this very site who have publicly changed their allegiance doesn't give you any pause?

Who has done that?   There are members who say they want DeSantis but would vote for Trump if he were the nominee.   Do you consider that a change of allegiance?

To me the change of allegiance is to truly recognize that Trump is bad for the GoP (and the nation) and then work to ensure that he never has a chance to be the nominee.   Anyone who continues to defend Trump has not changed allegiance in my book.

It is the GoP voters who will determine if Trump is a viable candidate and it is the GoP voters who will determine their nominee.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.3  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.1    2 weeks ago
What makes you think that anyone on this site has changed their allegiance? 

The fact that so many previous Trump supporters are now shifting support to DeSantis and saying it's time for Trump to mosey on.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.4  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.2    2 weeks ago
Who has done that?

Several notable NT members.  I'm not sure how anyone is missing it.

   There are members who say they want DeSantis but would vote for Trump if he were the nominee.   Do you consider that a change of allegiance?

Yes.  It's definitely a change of allegiance.

To me the change of allegiance is to truly recognize that Trump is bad for the GoP (and the nation) and then work to ensure that he never has a chance to be the nominee.

By doing things like supporting another candidate for the presidential nomination.  

Anyone who continues to defend Trump has not changed allegiance in my book.

Define "defend Trump".   

Because Trump gets accused of an enormous amount of nonsense that he never did and/or wasn't capable of doing anyway.  Pointing that out is not "defending Trump", no matter how many hyper-emotional people make the accusation.

 
 
 
pat wilson
Professor Guide
3.4.5  pat wilson  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4    2 weeks ago

42% of republicans identify as MAGA republicans. That's a big chunk.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.6  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.4    2 weeks ago
Yes.  It's definitely a change of allegiance.

Then we differ on what the phrase means.

By doing things like supporting another candidate for the presidential nomination.  

Not if they would vote for Trump if nominated.  

Define "defend Trump".  

Any attempt to counter / defuse every legitimate criticism of Trump and/or refusal to acknowledge Trump's wrongdoing.   For example, deflecting from criticism such as Trump taking TS/SCI documents and storing them in his home.   Or downplaying the significance of Trump attempted to suborn Pence to engage in an unconstitutional act.   Or downplaying the significance of Trump attempting to coerce Bowers to submit alternate Trump electors from AZ.   etc.    In particular, refusing to even acknowledge wrongdoing by Trump in his Big Lie campaign is crucially defending Trump.

Pointing that out is not "defending Trump", no matter how many hyper-emotional people make the accusation.

Defending Trump against legitimately false claims is not 'defending Trump' as I use the phrase.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.7  Jack_TX  replied to  pat wilson @3.4.5    2 weeks ago
42% of republicans identify as MAGA republicans. That's a big chunk.

OK.  If you say so.  

That doesn't mean they won't prefer DeSantis.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.8  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.6    2 weeks ago
Not if they would vote for Trump if nominated.  

Your definition appears of "change allegiance" appears to have developed unique properties in response to Trump.   Changing allegiance does not ordinarily require opposing the previous candidate at all costs.  I doubt you would challenge a person who claimed they "changed allegiance" from Joe Biden to Gavin Newsome, but said they'd still vote for Joe rather than Trump.  

Defending Trump against legitimately false claims is not 'defending Trump' as I use the phrase.

Fair enough. 

I'm sure you are aware that "defend Trump" is frequently used by Democrats to attack general resistance to some of their more ludicrous ideas.  It's very common here on NT, so clarification was in order.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.9  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.8    2 weeks ago
Your definition appears of "change allegiance" appears to have developed unique properties in response to Trump.   

Indeed it has.   Trump is entirely unique in terms of former PotUS' to the degree that he should never be considered to run for public office, much less the presidency.   Yes, the Trump situation is quite unique compared to anyone in US history who was a candidate for the office much less an occupant.

I'm sure you are aware that "defend Trump" is frequently used by Democrats to attack general resistance to some of their more ludicrous ideas.  I

Of course, but you now are clear on my meaning.   Note that my criticism of Trump has (since 2016) been limited to what is well-substantiated by evidence (sometimes overwhelming) and has focused on his abysmal character and its detrimental effects on the GoP and the nation (not his policies).   Mine has been a narrow and consistent criticism of Trump.   You will never find me leaping onto rumors and conspiracy theories for Trump or anyone else.

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.10  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.9    2 weeks ago
Indeed it has.

Well, not for me.  I'm still using the standard definition.

   Trump is entirely unique in terms of former PotUS' to the degree that he should never be considered to run for public office, much less the presidency.   Yes, the Trump situation is quite unique compared to anyone in US history who was a candidate for the office much less an occupant.

I understand that is your opinion.  I think it's an overreaction.

We have systems in place.  Those systems work, even when pressured by scoundrels like Trump or Nixon or LBJ or Andrew Johnson or Andrew Jackson.  

One function of those systems determines who is and isn't allowed to run for various offices.  Until such time as those processes formally disqualify Trump from holding public office, we'll just need to trust the American people, as we've done for nearly 2 1/2 centuries.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.11  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.10    2 weeks ago

Returning to the point:   Do you see members here withdrawing their "I will vote for Trump if he is the nominee" pledges?   I cannot think of a single Trump supporting member who has stated they will NOT vote for Trump if he is the nominee.    Regardless of the label, have you seen this shift take place here?

 
 
 
JohnRussell
Professor Principal
3.4.12  JohnRussell  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.7    2 weeks ago
OK.  If you say so.   That doesn't mean they won't prefer DeSantis.

The problem is, which to always elude you, is that they will go back to Trump if DeSantis falters for some reason. 

If you have "had enough" you say "I'm not supporting him no matter what". 

Very few MAGA have managed to say that yet. 

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.4.13  Tessylo  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.2    2 weeks ago
"And the number of MAGA supporters on this very site who have publicly changed their allegiance doesn't give you any pause?"
"Who has done that?"

No one I know of but some folks here just make up stuff.  

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.14  Jack_TX  replied to  TᵢG @3.4.11    2 weeks ago
Returning to the point:   Do you see members here withdrawing their "I will vote for Trump if he is the nominee" pledges?

The point was about actual "change of allegiance", not your personal steroid version of the phrase.

The actual change of allegiance has already happened.  Simply look at the number of people on this forum who supported Trump in 2020 and are currently saying it's time to move on as they embrace DeSantis.  Look at the election results for the strident Trump followers like Oz or Lake or Boebert.  Republicans around the country showed resounding lack of enthusiasm for a return to the moronic and bellicose shithousery of Trumpworld.  

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.4.15  Tessylo  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.14    2 weeks ago

moving-goalpost.gif

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.16  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @3.4.14    2 weeks ago
Simply look at the number of people on this forum who supported Trump in 2020 and are currently saying it's time to move on as they embrace DeSantis.  

I agree (and implicitly always agreed) that there are members who are embracing DeSantis rather than Trump for the nomination.    As I have explained to you repeatedly, that is not the point I made.

Do you see members here withdrawing their "I will vote for Trump if he is the nominee" pledges? 

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.4.17  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @3.4.15    2 weeks ago

Your moving the goalposts meme shows a lack of understanding of what he actually wrote.

Perhaps reading his posts would help.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.4.18  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.17    2 weeks ago

[Deleted]

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.4.19  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.18    2 weeks ago

Removed for context - sandy

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
3.4.20  JBB  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.18    2 weeks ago

And, grammar is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit!

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
3.4.21  TᵢG  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.17    2 weeks ago

If Trump becomes the GoP nominee, will you vote for him for PotUS?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
3.4.22  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @3.4.20    2 weeks ago

Exactly, and some have trouble writing a sentence that doesn't include shit in one form or another.  

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.4.23  Texan1211  replied to  Drinker of the Wry @3.4.22    2 weeks ago
Exactly, and some have trouble writing a sentence that doesn't include shit in one form or another. 

One form or another---either their ideas are flawed or they are just focused on writing shit.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
PhD Principal
3.4.24  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.17    2 weeks ago

That's a goal. This........256

is a goal post. There is a difference that some of our friends here simply can't grasp.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.4.25  Texan1211  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @3.4.24    2 weeks ago
There is a difference that some of our friends here simply can't grasp.

No surprise, is it?

 
 
 
Tessylo
Professor Principal
3.4.26  Tessylo  replied to  Texan1211 @3.4.25    2 weeks ago

horse-dead.gif

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
3.4.27  Jack_TX  replied to  JohnRussell @3.4.12    2 weeks ago
The problem is, which to always elude you, is that they will go back to Trump if DeSantis falters for some reason. 

Ah, yes.  Can't abandon the hysterical fear, now, can we?  Because if DeSantis "falters" it's not like they don't have several other very strong candidates.

If you have "had enough" you say "I'm not supporting him no matter what". 

Why?  Because you say so?  

If you "had enough" of Joe Manchin, does that mean you would support the Republican running against him?  Of course you wouldn't.

You cheer for Democrats like you're wearing a blue jersey at the Michigan/Ohio State game.  You defend whatever the fuck they do or say, unless it involves contradicting the party line.  But you want to hold other people to a different standard.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
3.4.28  Texan1211  replied to  Tessylo @3.4.26    2 weeks ago

Is that your endorsement of animal cruelty?

Should I alert the SPCA?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
4  Nerm_L    2 weeks ago

Money and war have been neoliberal priorities.  Neoliberals always want more of both.  While the election outcome shouldn't be surprising to anyone capable of picking lint from their navel, neoliberal opportunists will rewrite history to their advantage.  The 2022 midterms will only be seen as a retrenchment of neoliberal hegemony; a return to the status quo.  The peasants are so easily duped.

Republicans tying their wagon to DeSantis are going to be in for a rude surprise.  DeSantis won't have broad appeal on the national stage.  DeSantis could quickly become Republicans' McGovern (or Gary Hart) and then Republicans would have nothing.  Republicans need a viable policy agenda,  Winning with a rock star candidate would be a hollow victory.  But, then, the peasants are so easily duped.  

 
 
 
Hallux
Junior Principal
4.1  Hallux  replied to  Nerm_L @4    2 weeks ago
neoliberal opportunists will rewrite history to their advantage. 

Victors always do ... @1@

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
4.1.1  seeder  Vic Eldred  replied to  Hallux @4.1    2 weeks ago
Victors

Biden and Xi?

 
 
 
Nerm_L
Professor Principal
4.1.2  Nerm_L  replied to  Hallux @4.1    2 weeks ago
Victors always do ... @1@

It seems, more often, that history is rewritten by those who aren't in the game.  

 
 
 
Right Down the Center
Sophomore Guide
5  Right Down the Center    2 weeks ago

Hopefully the election results will help more and more republicans get over Donald and move to a more palatable candidate for 2024.  While the Republicans still have a good chance to take the house my concern is it is taking the party too long to get over Donald.  His time has come and gone.  I don't think he realizes his best chance of returning was to get over the 2020 election and focus on promoting candidates that didn't seem to be focused on what Americans were concerned about and too focused on hitching their wagon to Trump.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6  Ronin2    2 weeks ago

I am all for dumping Trump; so long as McCarthy McConnell; and any of the Establishment whores that wanted a Democrat in charge- instead of a MAGA Republicans just so they could preserve their power- get the boot as well.

Fuck the rest of us right? Leave us to the not so tender mercies of Brandon and the [{deleted}] It doesn't matter if we get hurt- the Establishment Republicans are well insulated from anything Democrats do to this country.

It is a time for change in leadership in the Republican Party. [deleted]

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
6.1  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Ronin2 @6    2 weeks ago
I am all for dumping Trump; so long as McCarthy McConnell; and any of the Establishment whores that wanted a Democrat in charge- instead of a MAGA Republicans just so they could preserve their power- get the boot as well.

256

It is a time for change in leadership in the Republican Party. New leaders are needed that realize Democrats are the enemy; and need to be treated as such.

Yep !

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @6    2 weeks ago
New leaders are needed that realize Democrats are the enemy; and need to be treated as such.

Yep. Keep on that track. Worked so well in the mid terms....

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.2.1  Ronin2  replied to  Ender @6.2    2 weeks ago

It worked great for the Democrats. They ran on Trump and Republicans being a threat to the US and won!

So it is time for the Fascist Democrats to be labeled permanently what they are. Maybe that will wake up the low intelligence, sound byte driven, social media, voter.

 
 
 
Ender
Professor Principal
6.2.2  Ender  replied to  Ronin2 @6.2.1    2 weeks ago

Are you from Russia by chance?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
6.3  Thrawn 31  replied to  Ronin2 @6    2 weeks ago

Lol that’s right, double down on MAGA, that is the best winning strategy for the Dems. Just keep drifting farther and farther into the lunacy that Trump normalized and you will make sure the GOP never controls the reigns of government for the foreseeable future.

This may be hard for you to believe but republicans are not a majority in America, and MAGA even less so.

 
 
 
Ronin2
Professor Quiet
6.3.1  Ronin2  replied to  Thrawn 31 @6.3    2 weeks ago

MAGA? You an Ender must belong to the same school of left wing denialists. This has nothing to do with MAGA.

Miss Brandon's two hate laced speeches where he labeled anyone that didn't agree with Democrats was a threat to Democracy? Miss the last 7 years of Democrat Fascist and media bullshit? 

Policies no longer matter. It is labeling the other side that does.

Don't like being called a Fascist; then stop supporting them.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
6.3.2  devangelical  replied to  Ronin2 @6.3.1    2 weeks ago
Don't like being called a Fascist; then stop supporting them.

we have, in the last 3 elections...

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7  Greg Jones    2 weeks ago

I predict:....

that DeSantis will NOT run for prez in '24.  Why  give up a good gig?

Trump WILL  He'll also run in '28, '32, etc....

If Biden decides to run, whoever is the Republican nominee will beat him

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.1  devangelical  replied to  Greg Jones @7    2 weeks ago

your political predictions have missed the target and the wall it's mounted on for the last 5 years.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2  TᵢG  replied to  Greg Jones @7    2 weeks ago
Trump WILL  He'll also run in '28, '32, etc....

I assume you want us to interpret your entire comment as satire.

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7.2.1  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @7.2    2 weeks ago

Of course!

 
 
 
Greg Jones
Professor Guide
7.2.2  Greg Jones  replied to  TᵢG @7.2    2 weeks ago

I haven't been here for five years,

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
7.2.3  dennissmith  replied to  Greg Jones @7.2.2    2 weeks ago

Sometimes facts don't seem to matter to some.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.4  TᵢG  replied to  dennissmith @7.2.3    2 weeks ago

What on Earth are you babbling about?   What facts are you referring to?

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
7.2.5  dennissmith  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.4    2 weeks ago

See 7.1 and 7.2.2

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.6  TᵢG  replied to  dennissmith @7.2.5    2 weeks ago

Oh, your 'grand contribution' is to criticize Dev for thinking Greg has been here for 5 years.

On the actual topic, Trump has now announced his candidacy.

Will you vote for him to be the nominee?

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
7.2.7  dennissmith  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.6    2 weeks ago

And your  Grand Contribution is to crititize me for pointing out the lie that from Dev.

I will not vote for any presidential candidate named Trump or Biden. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.8  TᵢG  replied to  dennissmith @7.2.7    2 weeks ago
And your  Grand Contribution is to crititize me for pointing out the lie that from Dev.

It was not a lie, it was simply a mistake.   Big fucking deal that a member thought another member was here longer than he was.   Get a grip.

I will not vote for any presidential candidate named Trump or Biden. 

Oddly, we agree on something.

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
7.2.9  dennissmith  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.8    2 weeks ago

Calling something a mistake instead of a lie is like calling Biden's lies gaffes but to each their own. 

There are many things we agree on.

 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.10  TᵢG  replied to  dennissmith @7.2.9    2 weeks ago

Why do you dwell in chickshit, petty points?   A member thought another member was here longer than he actually was.   Get over it.   Focus on something important.

Biden lies and Biden makes gaffes.   He does both.    A lie is knowingly stating something that is false .   Biden does that.   A gaffe is " an unintentional act or remark causing embarrassment to its originator; a blunder. "  or " a social or diplomatic blunder " or " gaffe  is a stupid or careless mistake, for example when you say or do something that offends or upsets people. "   Biden almost routinely makes gaffes.

Figure it out, Dennis, this is very easy.   A lie ≠ a gaffe.

There are many things we agree on.

I see little evidence of that.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
7.2.11  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.10    2 weeks ago
A member thought another member was here longer than he actually was.

funny how that member responding to the wrong person isn't even mentioned...

 
 
 
dennissmith
Freshman Silent
7.2.12  dennissmith  replied to  TᵢG @7.2.10    2 weeks ago

Look in the mirror and you will see exactly what you have accused me of.

Unlike some who feel the need to sign into NT on an almost daily basis, I have other things to do instead of constantly disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing with others. 

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
7.2.13  TᵢG  replied to  dennissmith @7.2.12    2 weeks ago

Are you able to make a comment on the thread topic @7?: 

Greg @7 ☞  I predict:....

that DeSantis will NOT run for prez in '24.  Why  give up a good gig?

Trump WILL  He'll also run in '28, '32, etc....

If Biden decides to run, whoever is the Republican nominee will beat him

All you have done here is engage in petty meta.

 
 
 
Kavika
Professor Principal
8  Kavika     2 weeks ago

DEMOCRATS CAN'T COUNT ON TRUMP IN 2024

Sure they can, he just announced he will be running in 2024.

The Freak Show continues.

 
 
 
GregTx
Junior Participates
8.1  GregTx  replied to  Kavika @8    2 weeks ago

I find it curious that he announced this far in advance.

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
8.1.1  Thrawn 31  replied to  GregTx @8.1    2 weeks ago

Cmon, we all know what he is up to, and it is hilarious. He is raising money to pay his legal bills for the next few years. And he wants to be president so that he can shield himself from the various investigations and consequences going forward.

My bet is that he will probably win the nomination again cuz no other prospects want to go through the bullshit that would be the primary process, and of course lose again in 2024 and drag other GOP candidates down with him. Or he loses the primary and runs as a third party candidate cuz those legal fees aren’t gonna pay themselves, and because he is a hate-filled and spiteful bitch and will tear the GOP down in the election because they rejected him.

He does have a large enough portion of retards in the GOP base who will follow him anywhere, and he can tank them in pretty much every race if he ran as a third party candidate. The GOP knows this, so my bet is he leads them into another defeat. I mean he lost the popular vote to the most unpopular candidate the Dems had in 2016. He’s lost the 2018 midterms, lost the 2020 election, and lost the 2022 midterms. The guy is a loser, most Americans have never liked him and will vote for Dems just to vote against Trump, and trump makes sure that other GOP candidates run on making themselves extensions of him.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.2  devangelical  replied to  GregTx @8.1    2 weeks ago
I find it curious that he announced this far in advance.

it's the time he needs to continue shaking down everyone with more money than sense. plus he had to get out in front of all the pending indictments to successfully play the victim/martyr again for his moronic sycophantic base of gullible dipshits.

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.3  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @8.1.2    2 weeks ago
plus he had to get out in front of all the pending indictments

Oh, gee, yet more wishful thinking?

How long before Democrats announce yet once again that THIS time, they really, really, REALLY have him?

It's been at least 6 years, any chance of anyone DOING something or just yakking incessantly like children?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.4  devangelical  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.3    2 weeks ago

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.5  Texan1211  replied to  devangelical @8.1.4    2 weeks ago

Figured all you got is some dumb-as-fuck meme.

But hey, kudos for completely avoiding answering!

That's a pretty neat trick saving yourself from embarrassing answers!

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
8.1.6  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Texan1211 @8.1.5    2 weeks ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
8.1.7  JBB  replied to  devangelical @8.1.2    2 weeks ago

Trump wrongly thinks Merrick Garland will not indict a candidate for President.

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
8.1.8  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  devangelical @8.1.4    2 weeks ago

A forty year old SitCom, really?  Is that the best that you have?

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Freshman Principal
8.1.9  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  JBB @8.1.7    2 weeks ago

Shocker.  When might Garland indict?

 
 
 
Texan1211
Professor Principal
8.1.10  Texan1211  replied to  JBB @8.1.7    2 weeks ago
Trump wrongly thinks Merrick Garland will not indict a candidate for President.

SO, how much longer before Democrats' wet dreams come true?

 
 
 
Jack_TX
Masters Quiet
8.1.11  Jack_TX  replied to  GregTx @8.1    2 weeks ago
I find it curious that he announced this far in advance.

I'm guessing they think it's better to be the only candidate and get the numbers juiced before anybody else has a chance to announce.

 
 
 
TᵢG
Professor Principal
8.1.12  TᵢG  replied to  Jack_TX @8.1.11    2 weeks ago

I suspect it was heavily based on shoring up public support to NOT pursue litigation.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
8.1.13  devangelical  replied to  TᵢG @8.1.12    2 weeks ago

uh, ... he failed...

 
 
 
freepress
Freshman Silent
9  freepress    2 weeks ago

Yes they can count on him. And the voting base that will check the "R" box no matter what can't rely on gerrymandering and forever.  They saw the threat and crossed into country over party territory in many states. That is only going to continue since the GOP see that backing him was a devils bargain they lost. If you really look closely and see the fact the GOP failed to produce a party platform for the last 2 years and how many GOP retired, how many "R" voters were lost to COVID due to the horrible GOP misinformation campaign, it is no surprise that putting Rick Scott in charge who deliberately failed to spend money on GOP campaigns the behind the scenes never revealed goal is to make sure they fail and lose and lose again in order to rebuild the party the same way they did with the fake "Tea Party" nonsense. They only way they win is to lose.

 
 

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