NBC News' Emilie Ikeda On Family's Japanese Internment Camps Story

  

Category:  News & Politics

Via:  perrie-halpern  •  one month ago  •  75 comments

By:   Scott Stump (TODAY. com)

NBC News' Emilie Ikeda On Family's Japanese Internment Camps Story
NBC News' Emilie Ikeda explores family connection to Japanese internment camps during World War II on 81st anniversary.

S E E D E D   C O N T E N T



This weekend marks 81 years since more than 125,000 people of Japanese ancestry living in the U.S. were ordered into internment camps during World War II, and the emotions have reverberated through the generations for Emilie Ikeda.

The NBC News correspondent paid a moving visit to the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles this week, exploring her personal connection to a shameful chapter in U.S. history.

For the first time, researchers have compiled all of the names of the Japanese Americans who were affected by Executive Order 9066 in 1942.

A 25-pound, 1,000-page book, known as the Ireicho, lists all 125,284 names, which include Emilie's grandparents. She wiped away tears on TODAY Feb. 17 as she marked the name of her grandfather, Bunji Albert Ikeda.

"He's since passed, so it's so meaningful to get to stamp his name," she said.

emilie-ikeda-family-history-mc-230217-01-copy-e6162b.jpg

Emilie Ikeda's late grandfather, Bunji Albert Ikeda, was taken to a camp in Arizona with his family when he was just 7 years old.TODAY

Issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, the executive order placed West Coast residents of Japanese descent, regardless of citizenship, into incarceration camps while the U.S. fought Japan and the Axis powers during World War II.

Emilie's grandparents, who were 7 years old at the time, were among those sent to the camps. She shared an old interview she conducted with her grandfather for a school project about his time in the Poston camp in Arizona.

"I always questioned why I was in this internment camp," he said. "We had these canvas cots, we had to fill these bags with hay, and that's what we slept on."

Emilie's grandfather recounted his time in the internment camp in an old interview she conducted for a school project.TODAY

Emilie also met a survivor of the internment camps during her visit to the museum. Reiko Iwanaga, 84, was moved to tears when she saw her own name in the Ireicho.

"It's all very concrete to see it like this," she said on TODAY."It's an acknowledgement of what happened."

University of Southern California professor Duncan Ryuken Williams spent the past three years working to compile the book. Before now, it was not known exactly how many Japanese Americans were ripped from their homes and taken from their businesses and sent to the camps.

"The idea of giving back people's names, giving them individuality, again, in a way that their personhood wasn't acknowledged by the U.S. government back in World War II," Williams said on TODAY about his inspiration for the project.

The museum sits on the very site where many Japanese Americans were put on buses headed to the camps 81 years ago.

"JANM is one of those ground zero points in the civil rights history of this country," museum president and CEO Ann Burroughs said on TODAY. "So there's enormous power of place to have this book here."

The Japanese American National Museum contains jars filled with soil from all of the camps where Japanese Americans were held against their will during World War II.TODAY

The museum also contains small jars filled with soil from all of the different internment camps, which were spread out between California, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arkansas and Wyoming, according to the National Archives.

The Ireicho is on display in Los Angeles until October, and anyone is welcome to stamp the book. The urgency to remember has only intensified as many of the first-hand survivors are dwindling now that they are in their 80s and 90s.

Iwanaga was accompanied on her visit to the museum by her daughter, Maya, who stressed why it's so important to never forget.

"So it doesn't happen again," she said. "So many people don't know this happened."

Scott Stump

Scott Stump is a staff reporter and the writer of the daily newsletter This is TODAY. He has been a regular contributor for TODAY.com since 2011, producing news stories and features across the trending, pop culture, sports, parents, pets, health, style, food and TMRW verticals.


Article is LOCKED by moderator [Perrie Halpern R.A.]
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devangelical
Professor Principal
1  devangelical    one month ago

another in a long list of regrettable instances in our collective american history that has yet to be rectified.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2  sandy-2021492    one month ago

A chapter in our history of which we should be ashamed.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2    one month ago
A chapter in our history of which we should be ashamed.

"Ashamed" is one thing.... "Obsessing" About ..... is quite another long sorted story !

[deleted]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1    one month ago
"Obsessing" About ..... is quite another long sorted story !

Who's obsessing?

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.2  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.1    one month ago
Who's obsessing?

Quite a few folks in this countrydo. Look at the "Woke" type Crowds, that will never conceed that things have actually changed. 

Just look at what the article is speaking of:

Maya, who stressed why it's so important to never forget.

"So it doesn't happen again,"

When's the last time this ever happened ?

ob·sess
[əbˈses]
VERB
obsessing (present participle)
  1. preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually, intrusively, and to a troubling extent:
 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.3  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1    one month ago

[deleted]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.4  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.2    one month ago
Maya, who stressed why it's so important to never forget. "So it doesn't happen again,

Your bar for "obsession" is very low.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.5  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.4    one month ago
Your bar for "obsession" is very low.

78 or so Years ago (1942-1945), and others still stress/obsess in 2023 about it ?

Museums have been built about it since.

Remind me what "LOW" is supposed to be again ?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.6  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.2    one month ago

These people are still alive. They have a right to grieve. They lost their homes and their money. They were treated differently because they looked different. No one did this to American Nazis here in the US.

That has nada to do with being woke. It has to do with being treated sub-human.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.7  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.6    one month ago
They were treated differently because they looked different.

Sure they were..... But haven't they "Moved On" and are better since then ?

Doesn't that make them "Strong" in your mind ?

No one did this to American Nazis here in the US.

Sure we did !

Internment of German Americans

With the US entry into World War I after Germany's unrestricted submarine warfare, German nationals were automatically classified as "enemy aliens". Two of the four main World War I-era internment camps were located in Hot Springs, North Carolina, and Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia.[2] Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer wrote that "All aliens interned by the government are regarded as enemies, and their property is treated accordingly."

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.8  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.7    one month ago

They have moved on, but they also don't want this event to be forgotten. Should the Jews forget the Holocaust?

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.9  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.8    one month ago
They have moved on, but they also don't want this event to be forgotten.

Who has actually "Forgotten" what happened ?

The Uneducated these days ?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.10  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.7    one month ago

You might have wanted to include this part of from your article. I will bold the important parts:

By the time of WWII, the United States had a large population of ethnic Germans. Among residents of the United States in 1940, more than 1.2 million persons had been born in Germany, 5 million had two native-German parents, and 6 million had one native-German parent. Many more had distant German ancestry. During WWII, the United States detained at least 11,000 ethnic Germans , overwhelmingly German nationals. [3] The government examined the cases of German nationals individually, and detained relatively few in internment camps run by the Department of Justice, as related to its responsibilities under the Alien Enemies Act.

As opposed to the entire Japanese American community, 125,284 of them.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.11  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.8    one month ago

The completion and public presentation of The Ireicho, the official and complete "Book of Names", listing all of the Japanese Americans illegally imprisoned in American internment camps during the Second World War at The Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles was kind of a BIG DEAL. It is incomprehensible why anyone would feel compelled to ridicule and belittle this current news story...

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.12  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.9    one month ago

Ask a young adult. Most do not remember.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.13  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.10    one month ago

That has nothing to do for what You claimed and I responded to !

2.1.6  seeder  pending  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.2

"No one did this to American Nazis here in the US."

Stop Moving the Goal Posts !

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.14  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.12    one month ago
Ask a young adult. Most do not remember.

What's concidered an "Adult" these days .... is very, very, very Low on the actual Adult pole !

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.15  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.5    one month ago
78 or so Years ago (1942-1945), and others still stress/obsess in 2023 about it ?

Nobody has been imprisoned in any of the various Nazi concentration camps for the same amount of time.  Should Auschwitz not have been made a museum?  Is it "woke" for the experiences of the Jewish people (among others) to have been memorialized?

You seem to be equating "stressing" education about history with "stressing over" history.  This is an instance of a common English word having more than one usage, and you are choosing the wrong one.  Many history classes glossed over the Japanese internment, if they even covered it at all.  I found out about it not through a school history class, but from a book in our town's public library written by a woman who had been interned as a child.  Had I not read that book, I likely would have known nothing about it until high school.

This is being "stressed" in the same way we are slowly trying to hold accountable those who kidnapped and, in many cases, killed Native American children in boarding schools.  And in the same way the Magdelene Laundries in (primarily) Ireland have been called to account for their imprisoning and abuse of women and children for decades, along with adopting out (for money, of course) children without the consent of their mothers.

It's not an obsession.  It's a call to acknowledge a wrong, and to avoid committing it again.

You know, a call for people to act like decent human beings.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.16  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.13    one month ago

I am not moving goal posts. The ones they got were actual American Nazis, as in enemies of war. The Japanese were just gathered up because they were Japanese.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.17  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.16    one month ago
The ones they got were actual American Nazis,

Still "Americans" non-the-less !

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.18  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.15    one month ago
Should Auschwitz not have been made a museum?

Where did I EVER say ANY Museums showing any atrocities, internments, or wrongdoings, shouldn't have happened ?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.19  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.17    one month ago

They were enemies of the country. That makes them criminals, in case you didn't know. And you are trying to make a minor point into a bigger one to diminish my point. My point is that these people were ALL GATHERED INTO CAMPS FOR BEING NOTHING MORE THAN JAPANESE.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.20  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.18    one month ago
Where did I EVER say ANY Museums showing any atrocities, internments, or wrongdoings, shouldn't have happened ?

Well, had you actually read the article, that is all this is.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.21  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.18    one month ago

You equated building museums with obsessing.

78 or so Years ago (1942-1945), and others still stress/obsess in 2023 about it ?

Museums have been built about it since.

Remind me what "LOW" is supposed to be again ?
 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.22  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.20    one month ago
Well, had you actually read the article, that is all this is.

It's like you don't know what I already accomplished.

I read it just fine. 

I also "Read" much more than what is provided here.

Do You ?

Search the Compensation and Reparations for the Evacuation, Relocation, and Internment Index (Redress Case Files) | National Archives

In order to have been eligible for restitution, an applicant had to have been:

  1. alive on August 10, 1988
  2. a United States (U.S.) citizen or permanent resident alien during the internment period December 7, 1941 to June 30, 1946
  3. a person of Japanese ancestry, or the spouse or parent of a person of Japanese ancestry
  4. evacuated, relocated, interned, or otherwise deprived of liberty or property as a result of Federal government action during the internment period and based solely on their Japanese ancestry
  • The Office of Redress Administration (ORA) was established in the Civil Rights Division by Section 105 of the Civil Liberties Act of 1988. ORA acknowledged, apologized, and made restitution for the fundamental injustices of the evacuation, relocation, and internment of Japanese Americans during World War II (WWII). The redress program was charged with administering the ten-year program, which, by operation of law, officially closed on February 5, 1999. ORA was responsible for identifying, locating, and authorizing tax-free restitution payment of $20,000 to eligible individuals of Japanese ancestry. Since the redress program's inception, ORA has provided $20,000 in redress to more than 82,219 eligible claimants, totaling more than $1.6 billion.

    Among the estimated 82,219 individuals paid, 189 were Japanese Latin American claimants eligible for the full $20,000 in redress compensation under the Act because they had the required permanent residency status or U.S. citizenship during the defined war period. In addition, ORA paid $5,000 to 145 Japanese Latin Americans who were deported from their homes in Latin America during WWII and held in internment camps in the U.S. These payments stem from an agreement resolving a 1996 civil suit filed by four Japanese Latin Americans. The agreement, which settles the so-called Mochizuki case, calls for all qualified class members to receive a presidential apology letter and $5,000 in compensation, to the extent that funds were remaining under the Act.
 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.23  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.21    one month ago
You equated building museums with obsessing.

Did no such thing !

i noted that monuments (museums) to what happened are out there. 

nothing more, nothing less.

What you read into as to my comment, seems to be YOUR issue, not mine.

See comment 2.1.22, as relates to MORE than a museum being installed, that Japanses "Americans" recieved.

If one want's MORE.... That's what Obsessing is all about !

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.24  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.19    one month ago
ALL GATHERED INTO CAMPS FOR BEING NOTHING MORE THAN JAPANESE.

Japanese..... Japan ....... Hirohito, etc, etc, ......Whom we were at "WAR" with after the Pearl Harbor Massacre !

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.25  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.22    one month ago

Yes I know about the small compensation they got. They never got back their homes, property, business... lives wasted in the camps.

The Germans said they were sorry, too. They also paid reparations. Big deal. You can't make up with money for lives lost.

None of this has to do with remembering what happened though.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.26  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.24    one month ago

These people were not on Japan's side. They were Americans.

And we remember Pearl Harbor.

This should be remembered too. 

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.27  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.25    one month ago
None of this has to do with remembering what happened though.

Like I said before in a comment.... Whom is it that has "Forgotten ?

"YOUNG" Adults ?

Seems to be a dig on education on your part, if that's what you are using as the Important Whoms.

I learned about all things wrong in this country... AND OTHERS .......back in 8th grade, including about Serfdom outside this country (was assigned to do a report on it) of mine , and yours, and the bad effects of slavery all over the planet. We were also taught that this country wasn't the only country on this planet that had slaves and treated them badly. 

I also did an in depth report on Booker T. Washington in 9th grade, as my chosen subject based on what we were being taught.

What are they teaching "American" kids these days ?

Lopsided History ?

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.28  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.26    one month ago
This should be remembered too. 

Who is it that's forgotten Pearl harbor ?

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.29  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.27    one month ago

I never learned about the Japanese internment camps when I was in school, over 50 years ago. 

In fact, it wasn't even recognized until Reagan. 

In 1988, Congress passed, and President Reagan signed, Public Law 100-383 – the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 – that acknowledged the injustice of "internment," apologized for it....

.

 
 
 
JBB
Professor Principal
2.1.30  JBB  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.29    one month ago

On the 100th Anniversary of The Tulsa Race Riot / Massacre most Oklahomans had never even heard of or learned about it...

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.31  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.29    one month ago
In fact, it wasn't even recognized until Reagan. 

I learned about this internment, and other bad things going on, on this planet, back 54 years ago, including the "Native American" treatment in this countries expansion.

Nothing was withheld in our classrooms, and nothing was exaggerated or left out.

Learned about the reparations given to those Japanese that were actually "Living", 35 Years Ago.

Guess I went to and had a "Good" school I was able to attend back then.

"St. Rose of Lima" (Miami) Private School. 

I was even an altar boy at the church that had the school where I learned about all this bad stuff [Deleted]

School taught me .... I can't change History ...... but they did teach me to "Learn" from it... to Not "perpetuate" it or make it out like it's "New" in this day and age.

 
 
 
Perrie Halpern R.A.
Professor Principal
2.1.32  seeder  Perrie Halpern R.A.  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.31    one month ago
I was even an altar boy at the church that had the school where I learned about all this bad stuff everyone is all of a sudden WOKE about and tearing things down to "Eliminate" actual History to make "Themselves" feel better.

Well, I never learned about any of this and I want to a great school. There is nothing woke about knowing our history and if your Catholic school taught this, then they were woke.

School taught me .... I can't change History ...... but they did teach me to "Learn" from it... to Not "perpetuate" it or make it out like it's "New" in this day and age.

There is nothing there to perpetuate. Just remember. Like at Holocaust museums, or are they woke, too?

When we forget our history, we are doomed to repeat it. Here is what Hitler said about the Armenian Genocide:

I have issued the command – and I’ll have anybody who utters but one word of criticism executed by a firing squad – that our war aim does not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy. Accordingly, I have placed my death-head formations in readiness – for the present only in the East – with orders to them to send to death mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish derivation and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (lebensraum) which we need.Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?”

And with that I am done discussing this with you. You obviously don't get why it is important to remember, and I can't change that.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.33  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.32    one month ago
Well, I never learned about any of this and I want to a great school.

Apparently Not.

There is nothing woke about knowing our history and if your Catholic school taught this, then they were woke.

Nope... Woke is nothing more than about just chaos this day and age.

Teaching ALL of what actually went on in History, isn't woke. Making up Stories for a "Narrative" to make money off of..... is "WOKE"

When we forget our history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Whom is it YOU said has forgotten or not been taught actual History Again ?

hmmmm... was it our new and so-called improved "Young Adults" ?

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
2.1.34  Thrawn 31  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.33    one month ago

I just gotta ask, what was your major in college? I ask because you seem to have a lot to say about what should be taught in schools but I get the feeling that you know very little about the subject matter of ANY classes taught in school. 

[Deleted]

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.35  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.23    one month ago

Sure, sure.  

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
2.1.36  sandy-2021492  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.28    one month ago

Nobody, nor did Perrie say they had. We memorialize that attack.  Does that mean we're obsessed with it?

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
2.1.37  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @2.1.35    one month ago

I rest my case...

 
 
 
Drinker of the Wry
Sophomore Principal
2.1.38  Drinker of the Wry  replied to  Perrie Halpern R.A. @2.1.29    one month ago

I read America’s Concentration Camps in 1970 when I was 16.  I was shocked and deeply moved since I knew about the war record of our 442nd Infantry Regiment The most decorated in US military history and as a fighting unit composed almost entirely of second-generation American soldiers of Japanese ancestry.  

 
 
 
Split Personality
Professor Principal
2.1.39  Split Personality  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.7    one month ago
No one did this to American Nazis here in the US.

Sure we did !

Internment of German Americans

With the US entry into World War I 

We were talking about internment of American citizens of Japanese decent in WWII

There were no "Nazis" in WWI...

Talk about moving the goal posts and not realizing you just did it.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
2.1.40  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  magicschoolbusdropout @2.1.31    one month ago

[removed]

 
 
 
Thrawn 31
Professor Guide
3  Thrawn 31    one month ago

Something else we have yet to really acknowledge.

 
 
 
Buzz of the Orient
Professor Expert
4  Buzz of the Orient    one month ago

In law school we learned that to seek equity, one must come with clean hands.  IMO that same adage should be applied elsewhere, such as that one should not criticize other governments for doing what one did themselves.  But the hypocrisy of some members on this site proves that what is similar to the adage about clean hands is often ignored.  Think of the line from Bob Dylan's 'The Times They Are A'changing': "Come mothers and fathers throughout the land,   And don't criticize what you can't understand"

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5  Vic Eldred    one month ago

The Japanese internment camps weren't set up because of "racism," they were set up because America was attacked by Japan.

There is a moral to this story:

Don't blame an entire group for what a government or a segment of the group does.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5    one month ago

They were all held to be potentially guilty and were punished due solely to their race.  That's the very definition of racism.

Don't blame an entire group for what a government or a segment of the group does.

Advice our government should have taken, but didn't, in regards to those of Japanese origin living in the US during WWII.  Odd, they didn't see a need to intern all people of German origin.  I wonder what the difference could possibly have been?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.1  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1    one month ago
They were all held to be potentially guilty and were punished due solely to their race.  That's the very definition of racism.

I think that's a stretch Sandy. 


 Odd, they didn't see a need to intern all people of German origin.  I wonder what the difference could possibly have been?

The entire German population was held responsible for the Holocaust. Therefore, Sandy, nobody should be able to cry "victim,"

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.2  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.1    one month ago
I think that's a stretch Sandy. 

I don't see how you could possibly defend that statement.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.3  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.1    one month ago
The entire German population was held responsible for the Holocaust.

The Jews living in Germany were held accountable for the Holocaust?  Or were they not part of the German population?  Or do you want to rethink that statement?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.4  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.2    one month ago

It's fairly straightforward. The reason, not a good reason, was simply because Japan attacked the US. BTW Germany did not attack the US and defeating Germany was FDR's top priority.

 
 
 
Just Jim NC TttH
Professor Principal
5.1.5  Just Jim NC TttH  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1    one month ago
Odd, they didn't see a need to intern all people of German origin.  I wonder what the difference could possibly have been?

Veiled usage of the race card already today...................??? 

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.6  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.3    one month ago

Sandy, you are better than that.

Were the German people as an entire national group held accountable for that or not?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.7  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.4    one month ago
BTW Germany did not attack the US

No, they just declared war on us.  Totally ok.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.8  sandy-2021492  replied to  Just Jim NC TttH @5.1.5    one month ago

Already today?  Have you seen how old this article is?

You tell us why those whose origins were Japan were interned wholesale, and those whose origins were German and Italian were not, Jim.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.9  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.6    one month ago
Were the German people as an entire national group held accountable for that or not?

No, they were not.

The German population contained Jews, Gypsies, and quite a few people who sheltered those who would have been sent to concentration camps, at risk of their own lives.

The portion of the German population who didn't stand up to Hitler have been blamed.

Those who opposed him were not.

It's a pretty simple concept.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.10  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.8    one month ago
You tell us why those whose origins were Japan were interned wholesale, and those whose origins were German and Italian were not,

May I?

Japan attacked us. Germany & Italy did not.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.11  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.10    one month ago

Germany and Italy declared war on us, Vic.  Should all Italians have been suspected of treason and interned?

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.12  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.9    one month ago
The portion of the German population who didn't stand up to Hitler have been blamed. Those who opposed him were not.

That is simply not true. I grew up in the shadow of WWII and nobody ever gave the German people any such consideration. As a matter of fact there were many killed after the war was over:

"In Western Europe it was really just a case of restoring law and order. There were a lot of people who wanted revenge and retribution for what they had been through; a lot of others who used the chaos as a cover for criminal activities; and some large Communist movements whose members were agitating for revolution, often against the wishes of their leaders."



 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.13  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.11    one month ago

There is a difference between a declaration of war and a surprise attack.


Should all Italians have been suspected of treason and interned?

Where did I say that Japanese Americans should have been interned?

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.14  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.12    one month ago
nobody ever gave the German people any such consideration.

German Jews were blamed for being put in concentration camps?

Or are you excluding German Jews from being Germans?

You conveniently missed these paragraphs in your link.

You mention Germans: there are various groups in Germany who have claimed that over 2 million Germans were deliberately killed in revenge attacks after the war. Naturally it suits those who want to cover up their role as perpetrators during the war to paint themselves as victims after it -- that way they are more likely to be forgiven, as if one crime cancels out another. Most historians now think that postwar violence killed somewhere between a million and a million and a half Germans, which is surely bad enough.
But let’s not pick on the Germans. French right-wingers spent years claiming that 105,000 collaborators were murdered in revenge after the liberation, when the accepted figure is now about 10,000. Italian right-wingers have claimed that 300,000 Fascists were likewise murdered out of revenge, when the real figure is more like 15,000. And throughout the Communist era, Yugoslavs claimed 1.7 million war dead, when the accepted figure today is just over a million. In that case the logic behind the exaggeration was simple -- the worse their losses were, the more they could expect to squeeze out of Germany in reparations.

So, in a link meant to support a complaint that Germans were being killed after the war, you neglected to read the paragraphs that stated that Germans making those complaints were exaggerating.

Same with French collaborators and Italian Fascists.

You should really read your links more thoroughly.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.15  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.14    one month ago
German Jews were blamed for being put in concentration camps?

You can do better than that.

Or are you excluding German Jews from being Germans?

You know better.


You conveniently missed these paragraphs in your link.

Innocent Germans paid for what the Nazi's did. You have no empathy for them. Thus you may not claim victimhood for Japanese, Muslims or anyone else, That is my standard.

PS. The war that Japan started with the US was not based on race.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.16  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.13    one month ago
Where did I say that Japanese Americans should have been interned?

To be fair, you didn't.  But you have defended treating them worse than those from other countries who declared war on us.

You declare it's not racism to hold all of a particular race accountable for the wartime actions of those of their race, from another country.  But you turn right around and defend not doing the same to Caucasians from European countries who went to war against us.

They all declared war against us, Vic.

Now, this being the United States of America, we shouldn't have detained anybody without probable cause to suspect that they had actually committed a crime.  But we did, in the case of Japanese citizens, and that's a black mark on our history.  And there is no reasonable way to argue that it wasn't race-based.  That's racism.  Refusal to acknowledge blatant racism is defense of racism.

 
 
 
devangelical
Professor Principal
5.1.17  devangelical  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.11    one month ago
Should all Italians have been suspected of treason and interned?

hell yes, most of those sheep herding olive pickers hadn't gotten off the boat more than 25 years before... /s

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.18  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.15    one month ago
You know better.

No, Vic, you're moving goalposts.  These were your words:

The entire German population was held responsible for the Holocaust.

The "entire German population" included quite a few people who were victims of the Holocaust.  So, no, the "entire German population" were not held accountable for the Holocaust.

You have no empathy for them.

Very presumptuous, and a personal insult.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.19  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.15    one month ago
PS. The war that Japan started with the US was not based on race.

Straw man.  Nobody ever said it was.  The internment of Japanese Americans was decidedly based on race.

 
 
 
Vic Eldred
Professor Principal
5.1.20  Vic Eldred  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.16    one month ago
But you have defended treating them worse than those from other countries who declared war on us.

No, that was not the point. You seem to think they were interned because of race. I never thought they should have been interned, but I am pointing out that it was because of the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.


Now, this being the United States of America, we shouldn't have detained anybody without probable cause to suspect that they had actually committed a crime. 

Agreed.


But we did, in the case of Japanese citizens, and that's a black mark on our history.  And there is no reasonable way to argue that it wasn't race-based.

I believe I just did.


Refusal to acknowledge blatant racism is defense of racism.

I'll ignore that Sandy.

Have a good day.

 
 
 
sandy-2021492
Professor Principal
5.1.21  sandy-2021492  replied to  Vic Eldred @5.1.20    one month ago
I believe I just did.

Most unsuccessfully.

 
 
 
magicschoolbusdropout
Sophomore Principal
5.1.22  magicschoolbusdropout  replied to  sandy-2021492 @5.1.21    one month ago
Most unsuccessfully.

"Taunting" ?

 
 

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